FabSwingers.com forum: Cultural Integration

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

At the risk of going over old ground I heard something today which made me really cross. Britain is for the most part a wonderfully tolerant, multi-cultural and diverse country.

But one of my friends said today that at his childs school the Secret Santa which had been a tradition for many years had been cancelled because a small group of Muslim parents had complained. This is a school where Eid is embraced, Dewali celebrated and many faiths and cultures are taught side by side in harmony. Yet it seems Christianity and its traditions can be tossed aside because of the views of a very small minority.

Am I wrong to believe that this is total madness and that the school should continue with secret Santa and if not then parents should make some sort of stand?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain

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By *igeiaWoman
over a year ago

Bristol

Playing Devil's Advocate then Santa and gift giving doesn't actually have anything to do it with Christianity or the nativity story. It's also possible that some parents are worried their kids will be ostracised for not taking part for religious reasons (Christians too; a number of Christian faith groups choose not to commercialise Christmas); or the school could be sensitive to everyone's financial pinch at the moment by not making parents and children feel obliged to participate when they can't really afford it.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

I would imagine that most if not all the children of whatever culture are equally perplexed, call it 'secret seasonal gift giving' or something..?

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cancel it

And then just before eid or diwali next year, organise a small group of Christians to complain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Playing Devil's Advocate then Santa and gift giving doesn't actually have anything to do it with Christianity or the nativity story. It's also possible that some parents are worried their kids will be ostracised for not taking part for religious reasons (Christians too; a number of Christian faith groups choose not to commercialise Christmas); or the school could be sensitive to everyone's financial pinch at the moment by not making parents and children feel obliged to participate when they can't really afford it."

completely agree with this.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The same old think in Britain the minority's get away with their views were as our are to fit in with those that choose to come here and take over and stop our believes and society

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Cancel it

And then just before eid or diwali next year, organise a small group of Christians to complain

oh yes because division and tit for tat always helps to break down barriers..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Secret Santa is not a Christian tradition, while Eid and Diwali are religious celebrations, so it's not really a fair comparison to make.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cancel it

And then just before eid or diwali next year, organise a small group of Christians to complain

oh yes because division and tit for tat always helps to break down barriers..

I wasn't being serious ...

I guess I tread these tightropes until admin come up with a sarcky bastard alert

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain "

It is true. I get that some people may suggest that Santa has nothing to do with Christianity, and I get that. But giving gifts at this time of year is a part of British culture. The cost is to be no more than £5, and any amount up to that (think Nessa in Gavin & Stacey giving people a single celebration chocolate!). Surely it is better to embarce than to be divisive? I find it very sad.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Cancel it

And then just before eid or diwali next year, organise a small group of Christians to complain

oh yes because division and tit for tat always helps to break down barriers..

I wasn't being serious ...

I guess I tread these tightropes until admin come up with a sarcky bastard alert

point taken

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain

Your friend got a letter from the school stating that the Secret Santa was cancelled due to Muslims complaining? Really?

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Sure this wasn't on facebook, courtest of Britain Worst?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain

Your friend got a letter from the school stating that the Secret Santa was cancelled due to Muslims complaining? Really?"

14 year old daughter relayed the message (and not a girl to lie). Parent is wondering whether it is worth making a fuss or to just forget it.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain

Your friend got a letter from the school stating that the Secret Santa was cancelled due to Muslims complaining? Really?

14 year old daughter relayed the message (and not a girl to lie). Parent is wondering whether it is worth making a fuss or to just forget it."

I think its worth having a chat with the school, certainly. If its true then they'll be able to ask why, and if it isn't, they can nip a potentially damaging rumour in the bud.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain

Your friend got a letter from the school stating that the Secret Santa was cancelled due to Muslims complaining? Really?

14 year old daughter relayed the message (and not a girl to lie). Parent is wondering whether it is worth making a fuss or to just forget it."
Ask one of the teachers when you are next there why its been cancelled, or ring up the school, teenagers are prone to exaggeration.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain

Your friend got a letter from the school stating that the Secret Santa was cancelled due to Muslims complaining? Really?

14 year old daughter relayed the message (and not a girl to lie). Parent is wondering whether it is worth making a fuss or to just forget it.Ask one of the teachers when you are next there why its been cancelled, or ring up the school, teenagers are prone to exaggeration."

and pranks..

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain

Your friend got a letter from the school stating that the Secret Santa was cancelled due to Muslims complaining? Really?

and pranks.."

I'm sure she will. As I said the young girl is very sensible and not prone to spouting rubbish, she is very mature and has lots of friends from various faiths and was quite upset by it being cancelled as it has always been fun when it has been done in the past.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

fuck em

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain "

[irony]It must be true. The villain in the story is a muslim[/irony]

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

I'm impressed on how many variations on a theme there are when it comes to Muslim bashing threads.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"I'm impressed on how many variations on a theme there are when it comes to Muslim bashing threads.

"
Not quite as many as Catholic bashing threads.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Secret Santa is not a Christian tradition, while Eid and Diwali are religious celebrations, so it's not really a fair comparison to make."

I would disagree with this, Santa is a Christian Tradition just as other celebrations are traditional to their own Religions, It may be more recent but it is still traditional nonetheless.

Children are being denied another joyful occasion where they can all mix together and have a bit of fun because so called Adults are worried about causing offence to other so called Adults.

Gimp

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"Secret Santa is not a Christian tradition, while Eid and Diwali are religious celebrations, so it's not really a fair comparison to make.

I would disagree with this, Santa is a Christian Tradition just as other celebrations are traditional to their own Religions, It may be more recent but it is still traditional nonetheless.

Children are being denied another joyful occasion where they can all mix together and have a bit of fun because so called Adults are worried about causing offence to other so called Adults.

Gimp"
Allegedly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The reason there is so much racial tension in the uk is because immigrants refuse to integrate,if they made an effort to fit in and didn't stick to their own communities they wouldn't arouse suspicion and cause paranoia,I'm not justifying anything here,just saying if they made more of an effort to fit in there wouldn't be so much tension,bit of a long-winded answer to your question,but yes I reckon they should bring secret santa back,or introduce mystery Mohammed at eid,so the Christian kids don't feel left out

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Muslims don't make me suspicious or cause me any paranoia whatsoever. And to be fair, British people aren't very well known for integrating when they are abroad, are they?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Secret Santa is not a Christian tradition, while Eid and Diwali are religious celebrations, so it's not really a fair comparison to make.

I would disagree with this, Santa is a Christian Tradition just as other celebrations are traditional to their own Religions, It may be more recent but it is still traditional nonetheless.

Children are being denied another joyful occasion where they can all mix together and have a bit of fun because so called Adults are worried about causing offence to other so called Adults.

Gimp"

You could argue secret Santa is a British cultural tradition, but it ain't Christian.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The reason there is so much racial tension in the uk is because immigrants refuse to integrate,if they made an effort to fit in and didn't stick to their own communities they wouldn't arouse suspicion and cause paranoia,I'm not justifying anything here,just saying if they made more of an effort to fit in there wouldn't be so much tension,bit of a long-winded answer to your question,but yes I reckon they should bring secret santa back,or introduce mystery Mohammed at eid,so the Christian kids don't feel left out"

Do you mean like British ex-pat communities where the kids go British schools, the shops sell the English papers, the restaurents serve British food and drink, etc, etc...

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Do you mean like British ex-pat communities where the kids go British schools, the shops sell the English papers, the restaurents serve British food and drink, etc, etc..."

'Ere, I don't want to eat any of that foreign muck when I'm living abroad. If baked beans were good enough for the Empire, they're good enough for me.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Secret Santa is not a Christian tradition, while Eid and Diwali are religious celebrations, so it's not really a fair comparison to make.

I would disagree with this, Santa is a Christian Tradition just as other celebrations are traditional to their own Religions, It may be more recent but it is still traditional nonetheless.

Children are being denied another joyful occasion where they can all mix together and have a bit of fun because so called Adults are worried about causing offence to other so called Adults.

Gimp

You could argue secret Santa is a British cultural tradition, but it ain't Christian. "

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play for fear of offending.

The giving of gifts is a tradition, but you are right, not necessarily Christian. But it is an opportunity for kids of all creeds and colours to embrace something together, to be part of a community and to see that objected to but any particular group saddens me.

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By *icked weaselCouple
over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

Call US Both Thick by all means - but neither of us have Heard of a Secret Santa before ?? anyone explain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My children went to a catholic school and they never did a secret Santa. It's not a Christian tradition at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play for fear of offending.

Actually iy's less than a third are doing traditional nativity plays. Only one word difference but a significant change to what you claim.

How do you know the reaon is fear of offending?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Muslims don't make me suspicious or cause me any paranoia whatsoever. And to be fair, British people aren't very well known for integrating when they are abroad, are they?"

I live in an area with every Race/ Colour/Religion imaginable and apart from the usual random "Paki" Nigger" outbursts when the youngsters are feeling brave in the pub everyone gets along fine.

Ive found that the vast majority of those that came to this country to better themselves know that the way to do it is to work hard and be good neighbours and actually look down on those small minority that have a chip on their shoulder and try and force their beliefs on others.

Gimp

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Secret Santa is not a Christian tradition, while Eid and Diwali are religious celebrations, so it's not really a fair comparison to make.

I would disagree with this, Santa is a Christian Tradition just as other celebrations are traditional to their own Religions, It may be more recent but it is still traditional nonetheless.

Children are being denied another joyful occasion where they can all mix together and have a bit of fun because so called Adults are worried about causing offence to other so called Adults.

Gimp

You could argue secret Santa is a British cultural tradition, but it ain't Christian. "

I purposely left out the word Secret,i may be wrong but i think Santa is a Christian tradition, I dont know of any other Religions that use it.

Gimp

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My children went to a catholic school and they never did a secret Santa. It's not a Christian tradition at all. "

I went to catholic school and never did secret Santa OR a nativity play.

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play... "

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Secret Santa is not a Christian tradition, while Eid and Diwali are religious celebrations, so it's not really a fair comparison to make.

I would disagree with this, Santa is a Christian Tradition just as other celebrations are traditional to their own Religions, It may be more recent but it is still traditional nonetheless.

Children are being denied another joyful occasion where they can all mix together and have a bit of fun because so called Adults are worried about causing offence to other so called Adults.

Gimp

You could argue secret Santa is a British cultural tradition, but it ain't Christian.

I purposely left out the word Secret,i may be wrong but i think Santa is a Christian tradition, I dont know of any other Religions that use it.

Gimp"

I know...but the post was about Secret Santa as in the present buying tradition, which I think is quite recent, not Christian and a bit commercialised. It's a shame it's been cancelled if it's something the kids do genuinely enjoy, but I can understand why schools might be concerned about the impact for children for poorer families and whether they were able to participate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My children went to a catholic school and they never did a secret Santa. It's not a Christian tradition at all.

I went to catholic school and never did secret Santa OR a nativity play. "

We did a nativity once. And my children did it once each. I think it's the norm now at catholic schools for one year to be chosen to do the nativity. It is certainly the case here anyway.

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley

Had there actually been any confirmation that:

a) it was cancelled and

b) the reason it was cancelled?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

Widely reported this year, nativity plays being replaced by winter festivals etc so secularising the seasonal celebrations. Maybe we should go down the French route and become a fully secular country and not embrace any religious festivals? Wouldn't be something I would support but given the views articulated here maybe it is for the best?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Secret Santa is not a Christian tradition, while Eid and Diwali are religious celebrations, so it's not really a fair comparison to make.

I would disagree with this, Santa is a Christian Tradition just as other celebrations are traditional to their own Religions, It may be more recent but it is still traditional nonetheless.

Children are being denied another joyful occasion where they can all mix together and have a bit of fun because so called Adults are worried about causing offence to other so called Adults.

Gimp

You could argue secret Santa is a British cultural tradition, but it ain't Christian.

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play for fear of offending.

the key thing here is FEAR of offense being caused. The majority of these ridiculous stories come from some PC brigader on a candy cane sugar high hallucinating swathes of offended people when in actual fact there are non, or very few at least and not enough to warrant a change in celebration.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

I've never heard of a school doing secret Santa, when my son started nursery there where no Christian children to do a nativity play anyway, he was the only white British in the whole of the nursery and school. I only ever remember one nativity play when we moved back here think it must of been the first years that did it

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"At the risk of going over old ground I heard something today which made me really cross. Britain is for the most part a wonderfully tolerant, multi-cultural and diverse country.

Am I wrong to believe that this is total madness and that the school should continue with secret Santa and if not then parents should make some sort of stand?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Secret Santa is not a Christian tradition, while Eid and Diwali are religious celebrations, so it's not really a fair comparison to make.

I would disagree with this, Santa is a Christian Tradition just as other celebrations are traditional to their own Religions, It may be more recent but it is still traditional nonetheless.

Children are being denied another joyful occasion where they can all mix together and have a bit of fun because so called Adults are worried about causing offence to other so called Adults.

Gimp

You could argue secret Santa is a British cultural tradition, but it ain't Christian.

I purposely left out the word Secret,i may be wrong but i think Santa is a Christian tradition, I dont know of any other Religions that use it.

Gimp

True but the Gent did also say that it had been a tradition for many years but had been cancelled because a few Muslims had complained, I agree with what you are saying about peer pressure and those that would struggle to find the money in which case i would agree with letting it die a death to save those Children whose parents cannot do it any embarrassment but all things being equal let the Kids have their bit of fun and be Kids for the short time that they can.

Gimp

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/12/14 22:32:51]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But one of my friends said today that at his childs school the Secret Santa which had been a tradition for many years had been cancelled because a small group of Muslim parents had complained. "

I'm NOT religious at all and I don't usually comment on threads like these, but here is the issue I HAVE with that^^^

For a Muslim to complain, they would FIRST have to BELIEVE that Santa Claus does in fact exist.

How can you complain AND be offended by something that is a complete Myth....

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Santa is basically a mash-up of various European legends, traditions, and beliefs, at least one being pre-Christian:

The modern figure of Santa Claus is derived from the Dutch figure of Sinterklaas, whose name is a dialectal pronunciation of Saint Nicholas, the historical Greek bishop and gift-giver of Myra. During the Christianization of Germanic Europe, this figure may have absorbed elements of the god Odin, who was associated with the Germanic pagan midwinter event of Yule and led the Wild Hunt, a ghostly procession through the sky. Over time, traits of this character and the British folklore character Father Christmas merged to form the modern Santa Claus known today. (Wikipedia)

In fact, some Christian sects wanted to get rid of him, as they believed him to be too pagan or Roman Catholic. Saying Santa is Christian is not really digging deep enough. There are enough gift giving traditions in the world to make it clear that Christianity doesn't have dibs on giving gifts once a year.

I think if the OPs friend asks the school it will become a lot clearer what actually happened.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Had there actually been any confirmation that:

a) it was cancelled and

b) the reason it was cancelled?"

In my experience stories like this are rarely true. I'd hazard a guess there's a different reason for the cancellation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Both mine had nativity plays, mary, jesus, shepards, and a manger ect.

Now it is " happy holidays" instead of happy christmas.

Another tradition has been lost, through fear of offence.

Her

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"I've never heard of a school doing secret Santa, when my son started nursery there where no Christian children to do a nativity play anyway, he was the only white British in the whole of the nursery and school. I only ever remember one nativity play when we moved back here think it must of been the first years that did it

My daughter went to a school with 27 nationalities (they counted once), including Muslims. They did Nativity plays every year.

It usually depends on whether the school is linked to a Church or not as to how seriously it is taken. Not one of the Muslim children were stopped from participating, and the families were there quite happily.

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

Widely reported where?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

I'd ban all religious celebrations full stop.

Firstly on the fact it's a load of bollocks and it's about time we stopped prophesying this shit.

And secondly I'm getting a right grumpy bugger as I'm getting older

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

Widely reported where?

From Christian Today, to the Catholic Herald, through the Guardian to the Telegraph to name a few.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But one of my friends said today that at his childs school the Secret Santa which had been a tradition for many years had been cancelled because a small group of Muslim parents had complained.

I'm NOT religious at all and I don't usually comment on threads like these, but here is the issue I HAVE with that^^^

For a Muslim to complain, they would FIRST have to BELIEVE that Santa Claus does in fact exist.

How can you complain AND be offended by something that is a complete Myth....

What's this? Santa doesn't exist? Since when?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

I'd ban all religious celebrations full stop.

Firstly on the fact it's a load of bollocks and it's about time we stopped prophesying this shit.

And secondly I'm getting a right grumpy bugger as I'm getting older

Well thats just bloody stupid innit, if you stop Christmas we would soon run out of matching socks

Gimp

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

Widely reported where?

From Christian Today, to the Catholic Herald, through the Guardian to the Telegraph to name a few.

What they're actually doing is re-reporting an old story based on a poll done on Mumsnet a few years ago. The Catholic Herald story is actually quite skeptical about the whole thing.

Traditional nativity plays MAY have decreased but a form of them still continues, probably more to keep kids interested in an increasingly secular society than any big hoohah created by Muslims.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

I'd ban all religious celebrations full stop.

Firstly on the fact it's a load of bollocks and it's about time we stopped prophesying this shit.

And secondly I'm getting a right grumpy bugger as I'm getting older

Well thats just bloody stupid innit, if you stop Christmas we would soon run out of matching socks

Gimp"
.

Oh yeah never thought of that..

Mmmmm how about we introduce a sock festival where we celebrate the second coming of the missing sock... Second Cummings and socks

. Do you think it will ever catch on

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

Widely reported where?

From Christian Today, to the Catholic Herald, through the Guardian to the Telegraph to name a few.

What they're actually doing is re-reporting an old story based on a poll done on Mumsnet a few years ago. The Catholic Herald story is actually quite skeptical about the whole thing.

Traditional nativity plays MAY have decreased but a form of them still continues, probably more to keep kids interested in an increasingly secular society than any big hoohah created by Muslims."

Not sure why there is a need to secularise this particular religious festival? Kids in nativity plays (3-7 year olds) will be interested no matter what. And I didn't suggest any particular group was making a hoohah, merely pointing out the decline of a traditional Nativity Christian celebration in schools. The Catholic Herald article was very good as you point out, and well done to those Muslim parents for supporting the traditional play and demonstrating a welcome sense of community and understanding.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

I'd ban all religious celebrations full stop.

Firstly on the fact it's a load of bollocks and it's about time we stopped prophesying this shit.

And secondly I'm getting a right grumpy bugger as I'm getting older

Well thats just bloody stupid innit, if you stop Christmas we would soon run out of matching socks

Gimp.

Oh yeah never thought of that..

Mmmmm how about we introduce a sock festival where we celebrate the second coming of the missing sock... Second Cummings and socks

. Do you think it will ever catch on"

Dunno about you but after the first coming i have to beat the buggers with a hammer to get em on

Gimp

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

I'd ban all religious celebrations full stop.

Firstly on the fact it's a load of bollocks and it's about time we stopped prophesying this shit.

And secondly I'm getting a right grumpy bugger as I'm getting older

Well thats just bloody stupid innit, if you stop Christmas we would soon run out of matching socks

Gimp.

Oh yeah never thought of that..

Mmmmm how about we introduce a sock festival where we celebrate the second coming of the missing sock... Second Cummings and socks

. Do you think it will ever catch on

Dunno about you but after the first coming i have to beat the buggers with a hammer to get em on

Gimp"
..

Dunno I've misplaced my reaching stick so I can't get them off the celling to find out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Muslims aren't allowed to spend a lot of money on christmas, their religion says so (same as JW aren't allowed to spend anything at all). And they do celebrate it by the way.

Probably, if anything, they've said they aren't allowed to paricpate so the school may have cancelled it so the muslim children don't feel left out? Nothing wrong with being unselfish at christmas is there? I'm always hearing its the time for giving and all that.

I'm not religious and don't do christmas at all. Am very anti-commercialism and anti people getting into debt over one stupid day of they year.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

I'd ban all religious celebrations full stop.

Firstly on the fact it's a load of bollocks and it's about time we stopped prophesying this shit.

And secondly I'm getting a right grumpy bugger as I'm getting older

So you'd ban free speech and the right of people to believe whatever they want? Uh, ok...that's a...nice vision of a society I'd like to live in

Also, the word is 'prosletising'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Quite why any muslim family would be offended by mention of Jesus or Christmas is beyond me, particularly when you bear in mind Jesus is the prophet 'Isa in Islam.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My daughter went to a school with 27 nationalities (they counted once), including Muslims. They did Nativity plays every year.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Both mine had nativity plays, mary, jesus, shepards, and a manger ect.

Now it is " happy holidays" instead of happy christmas.

Another tradition has been lost, through fear of offence.

Her"

I detest the American 'happy holidays' saying.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you really surprised by this though, I mean really.

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By *reasyontheeyesMan
over a year ago

out in the sticks

"I'm impressed on how many variations on a theme there are when it comes to Muslim bashing threads.

Not quite as many as Catholic bashing threads."

if you wish to see someone bashing the Bishop please enter any chat room

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm impressed on how many variations on a theme there are when it comes to

Muslim bashing threads.

well im unimpressed by how few there are.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain

It was never a tradition in my childrens schools or mine many moons ago.

To be fair I think the school has it right and maybe they are thinking of the people who don't have a spare fiver...whoever it was complaining I think they had a point, but I am guessing the Headmaster probably just made the decision.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

"I'm impressed on how many variations on a theme there are when it comes to

Muslim bashing threads.

well im unimpressed by how few there are.

How come?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The same old think in Britain the minority's get away with their views were as our are to fit in with those that choose to come here and take over and stop our believes and society "

I don't believe in Santa does anyone over the age of 6? Is the school dropping actual Christmas teachings or just reducing poundlands profits?

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By *uslaffMan
over a year ago

manchester

Never heard of secret Santa in schools,but both my kids did nativity plays and without exception,every single one of them was crap.

A god awful annual chore,I do not miss.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

This is one reason I wish all schools were secular. If people are concerned about losing a tradition why don't they just ensure that its kept alive by their family or church. School is there to teach you to read and write, not to teach you to be religious.....isn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

all these things just help UKIP

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Never heard of secret Santa in schools,but both my kids did nativity plays and without exception,every single one of them was crap.

A god awful annual chore,I do not miss.

You're right there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"all these things just help UKIP"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

S x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is one reason I wish all schools were secular. If people are concerned about losing a tradition why don't they just ensure that its kept alive by their family or church. School is there to teach you to read and write, not to teach you to be religious.....isn't it?"

I like it that there are faith schools so if you want your children to learn about your faith you can send them there. Of course some effort has to be made to send your children to these schools. But if you are off no faith then I don't see why you should be doing a nativity. A lesson just giving an all round understanding of religion should suffice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You beat me to it. Religion at state schools should be taught with the same academic rigour as subjects like history and science. And it would be better if state schools didn't celebrate any religious holidays or festivals at all.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I think a lot of the problem is that people have difficulty in letting go of religion even if they don't practice it. I'm pretty sure most people who attend Nativity plays don't trouble the church from one years end to the next.

Secret Santa is something else altogether, it has no religious significance at all. I once received a Christmas card from Japan with Santa flying round a large statue of Buddha

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I'm impressed on how many variations on a theme there are when it comes to

Muslim bashing threads.

well im unimpressed by how few there are.

care to elaborate..

or are you just being contentious for effect..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think a lot of the problem is that people have difficulty in letting go of religion even if they don't practice it. I'm pretty sure most people who attend Nativity plays don't trouble the church from one years end to the next."

I agree. It's funny though. If the schools taught any other subject on the basis of believing something without clear evidence, there would be an outcry from the very same parents who think it's OK to make kids adopt religious beliefs without question. Personally, I'd like kids to learn about all the major religions, then make their own minds up when they're old enough to think for themselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm impressed on how many variations on a theme there are when it comes to

Muslim bashing threads.

well im unimpressed by how few there are.

Are you saying there should be more?

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

"Secret Santa is not a Christian tradition, while Eid and Diwali are religious celebrations, so it's not really a fair comparison to make.

I would disagree with this, Santa is a Christian Tradition just as other celebrations are traditional to their own Religions, It may be more recent but it is still traditional nonetheless.

Children are being denied another joyful occasion where they can all mix together and have a bit of fun because so called Adults are worried about causing offence to other so called Adults.

Gimp

You could argue secret Santa is a British cultural tradition, but it ain't Christian. "
REALY always thought it was something imported from the good old USA along with proms and trick or treating

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm impressed on how many variations on a theme there are when it comes to

Muslim bashing threads.

well im unimpressed by how few there are.

Are you saying there should be more?

What do you think? im saying im surprised there aren't more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

I'd ban all religious celebrations full stop.

Firstly on the fact it's a load of bollocks and it's about time we stopped prophesying this shit.

And secondly I'm getting a right grumpy bugger as I'm getting older

So you'd ban free speech and the right of people to believe whatever they want? Uh, ok...that's a...nice vision of a society I'd like to live in

Also, the word is 'prosletising'."
.

No you can have free speech, you can have all the religious schools you want, just not when the states paying for it.

Yeah I was wondering how that spelling went lol

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"I'm impressed on how many variations on a theme there are when it comes to

Muslim bashing threads.

well im unimpressed by how few there are.

Are you saying there should be more?

What do you think? im saying im surprised there aren't more."

Good afternoon Hilda! How's things?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Find out whether it is actually true and if so, then complain

Your friend got a letter from the school stating that the Secret Santa was cancelled due to Muslims complaining? Really?

and pranks.."

And spreading unsubstantiated rumours

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We are here trying to integrate and anyone want to join lol..but reality is ignorance by many, scaremongering and add to it lack of context with deliberate distortion, deletion of the truth and people just wanting to talk to better understand would make the world a better place. Don't celebrate xmas but always give tokens of appreciation and food. Showing good will to fellow humans is not a crime. Thats said it was forced down our throats at school and some people haven't learnt to forgive and forget and take the good lessons and move on.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"I'm impressed on how many variations on a theme there are when it comes to

Muslim bashing threads.

well im unimpressed by how few there are.

Are you saying there should be more?

What do you think? im saying im surprised there aren't more."

I am struggling to understand your posts as I am sure they contradict themselves.

Are you saying you are surprised there are not more Muslim bashing threads because of some peoples attitudes on it? Or that you think there should be more Muslim bashing threads?

( Hopefully an answer will put it to bed then )

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"At the risk of going over old ground I heard something today which made me really cross. Britain is for the most part a wonderfully tolerant, multi-cultural and diverse country.

Am I wrong to believe that this is total madness and that the school should continue with secret Santa and if not then parents should make some sort of stand?"

Were you a bit d*unk when you posted this? Most of your postings are fairly well thought out. But this?.......

Bet you wish you could delete it now dont you? lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Less than 1/3 of primary schools now do a nativety play...

Where did you pick up that little gem from?

I'd ban all religious celebrations full stop.

Firstly on the fact it's a load of bollocks and it's about time we stopped prophesying this shit.

And secondly I'm getting a right grumpy bugger as I'm getting older

So you'd ban free speech and the right of people to believe whatever they want? Uh, ok...that's a...nice vision of a society I'd like to live in

Also, the word is 'prosletising'..

No you can have free speech, you can have all the religious schools you want, just not when the states paying for it.

Yeah I was wondering how that spelling went lol"

Weirdly enough...I totally agree

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

[Removed by poster at 09/12/14 12:41:48]

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By *ngel_38Woman
over a year ago

Staffs

"At the risk of going over old ground I heard something today which made me really cross. Britain is for the most part a wonderfully tolerant, multi-cultural and diverse country.

Am I wrong to believe that this is total madness and that the school should continue with secret Santa and if not then parents should make some sort of stand?"

I doubt it very much. Muslims embrace Christmas.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"At the risk of going over old ground I heard something today which made me really cross. Britain is for the most part a wonderfully tolerant, multi-cultural and diverse country.

Am I wrong to believe that this is total madness and that the school should continue with secret Santa and if not then parents should make some sort of stand?

Were you a bit d*unk when you posted this? Most of your postings are fairly well thought out. But this?.......

Bet you wish you could delete it now dont you? lol"

No, it has been interesting to read the views.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Secret Santa is not a Christian tradition. How many of you did this at school?

It is a modern idea and has nothing to do with religion.

A class of thirty kids, £5 each on a present, at a time when some families are dependent on food banks!

Do the maths people, it's not very Christian is it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Muslims aren't monolithic..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Muslims aren't monolithic..

Assume that's predictive text at work

as even the druids believe in more than one block of stone

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"At the risk of going over old ground I heard something today which made me really cross. Britain is for the most part a wonderfully tolerant, multi-cultural and diverse country.

Am I wrong to believe that this is total madness and that the school should continue with secret Santa and if not then parents should make some sort of stand?

Were you a bit d*unk when you posted this? Most of your postings are fairly well thought out. But this?.......

Bet you wish you could delete it now dont you? lol

No, it has been interesting to read the views. "

How though?

Santa has nothing to do with Christianity

Secret Santa even less

Then you refer to a 14 year old who "told you" that it was about Muslims?

You are an intelligent guy. Surely the obvious facts that Secret Santa and Muslims are not even connected by even the slenderest of associations would make you wonder if maybe, just maybe this was not what it seems to be?

I generally find that the nore the outrage surrounding the story, the less likely it is to have even a shred of truth about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The same old think in Britain the minority's get away with their views were as our are to fit in with those that choose to come here and take over and stop our believes and society "

Agreed soon as in this case muslims allegedly complain instead of being told to do one authorities give in for fear of being labelled racists its ridiculous.

Going back to topic heading integration is key and whether folk like it or not muslims do not tend to integrate fully into british way of life.

Where I live now and then mosques have open day for non muslims to understand islam I will consider it when mosques are as open to all religions like churches where are faiths are welcome.

Why do muslims wish folk to undersrand islam when women are not looked upon as equal to men.

If in any doubt read english version of koran go to womens role in islam its in black and white how do I know this quite simply my daughters partner is muslim and his dad made mistake in insisting my daughter converted to islam in order to be with his son bearing in mind they have two lovely kids together.

I asked to look at the koran he said no need long story short I read it and when I asked who with half a brain and free will would convert to the oppresive religion like this he had no answer my daughter to her credit will never convert and credit to her partner despite pressure from his family made it clear to leave it be.

So yes integration key but cuts both ways.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"At the risk of going over old ground I heard something today which made me really cross. Britain is for the most part a wonderfully tolerant, multi-cultural and diverse country.

Am I wrong to believe that this is total madness and that the school should continue with secret Santa and if not then parents should make some sort of stand?

Were you a bit d*unk when you posted this? Most of your postings are fairly well thought out. But this?.......

Bet you wish you could delete it now dont you? lol

No, it has been interesting to read the views.

How though?

Santa has nothing to do with Christianity

Secret Santa even less

Then you refer to a 14 year old who "told you" that it was about Muslims?

I generally find that the nore the outrage surrounding the story, the less likely it is to have even a shred of truth about it."

The point I was making, and it seems backed up by many of the comments on here is that people seem to have no problem with Christmas and its traditions becoming secularised. I would have been equally cross had a simple and long standing tradition had been objected to on religious grounds by a Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or Jedi knight, it just so happens in this instance that the complaints were made by a small number of Muslims. If we as a country believe that religion and cultural customs have no place in schools then perhaps we should make all schools secular and do without the traditions of all races, cultures and religions. I think our country would be a sadder place for it. I firmly believe that we should show respect for others, for their cultures, religions and traditions, even if it is at odds with our own beliefs. In this case, had I been the Headmaster I would have excused those who did not wish to participate on any grounds without hesitation while leaving in place something which is good for the school community and friendship, whether the kids are black, white, green or blue, believe in Maritans or a greater being of any given creed.

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley

"At the risk of going over old ground I heard something today which made me really cross. Britain is for the most part a wonderfully tolerant, multi-cultural and diverse country.

Am I wrong to believe that this is total madness and that the school should continue with secret Santa and if not then parents should make some sort of stand?

Were you a bit d*unk when you posted this? Most of your postings are fairly well thought out. But this?.......

Bet you wish you could delete it now dont you? lol

No, it has been interesting to read the views.

How though?

Santa has nothing to do with Christianity

Secret Santa even less

Then you refer to a 14 year old who "told you" that it was about Muslims?

I generally find that the nore the outrage surrounding the story, the less likely it is to have even a shred of truth about it."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The same old think in Britain the minority's get away with their views were as our are to fit in with those that choose to come here and take over and stop our believes and society

Agreed soon as in this case muslims allegedly complain instead of being told to do one authorities give in for fear of being labelled racists its ridiculous.

Going back to topic heading integration is key and whether folk like it or not muslims do not tend to integrate fully into british way of life.

Where I live now and then mosques have open day for non muslims to understand islam I will consider it when mosques are as open to all religions like churches where are faiths are welcome.

Why do muslims wish folk to undersrand islam when women are not looked upon as equal to men.

So yes integration key but cuts both ways.

Good intelligent post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The same old think in Britain the minority's get away with their views were as our are to fit in with those that choose to come here and take over and stop our believes and society

Agreed soon as in this case muslims allegedly complain instead of being told to do one authorities give in for fear of being labelled racists its ridiculous.

Going back to topic heading integration is key and whether folk like it or not muslims do not tend to integrate fully into british way of life.

Where I live now and then mosques have open day for non muslims to understand islam I will consider it when mosques are as open to all religions like churches where are faiths are welcome.

Why do muslims wish folk to undersrand islam when women are not looked upon as equal to men.

So yes integration key but cuts both ways.

Good intelligent post.

a Christian woman would not need to convert to Islam in order to be with a muslim man. A muslim man is allowed under shariah law to marry both jewish and christian women (as these religions worship the same God as Islam).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think what most people are wondering is whether there is actually any truth to this - senior leadership at the school would be best placed to clarify this...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The same old think in Britain the minority's get away with their views were as our are to fit in with those that choose to come here and take over and stop our believes and society

Agreed soon as in this case muslims allegedly complain instead of being told to do one authorities give in for fear of being labelled racists its ridiculous.

Going back to topic heading integration is key and whether folk like it or not muslims do not tend to integrate fully into british way of life.

Where I live now and then mosques have open day for non muslims to understand islam I will consider it when mosques are as open to all religions like churches where are faiths are welcome.

Why do muslims wish folk to undersrand islam when women are not looked upon as equal to men.

So yes integration key but cuts both ways.

Do you know that muslims have elected seven women as their Heads of State in Muslim majority countries? How many women have been elected to lead their countries in the western traditional christian countries?

Have you read the old testament, do you know all of the things it says about women?

Are women 'equal' in Christianity? Ask any women who (up until recently) wanted to be a bishop, cardinal or Pope!

A thread on a schools cancelled secret Santa (which has nothing to do with Christian religion) should not be a platform for anti muslim sentiment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some people do object to schools celebrating Christmas (and Santa is very much seen as part of the Christian tradition of Christmas, regardless of his pagan roots), so I don't find the OP's story that unlikely. In any case, it has spawned some interesting comments.

It's a shame that Muslims are currently considered by many to be the bogeyman. But then, at various points in our illustrious history, we've blamed every thing bad on the Jews, the Irish, the Asians, the Catholics, etc etc... Rarely ourselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Some people do object to schools celebrating Christmas (and Santa is very much seen as part of the Christian tradition of Christmas, regardless of his pagan roots), so I don't find the OP's story that unlikely. In any case, it has spawned some interesting comments.

Being quite familiar with the education system ... For me, such a course of action from the school does seem very unusual.

It's clear that nobody is privy to the facts, the source of information could be more reliable and most importantly it is very easy to verify the reasoning for this cancellation by contacting the school's leadership.

The DfE with their drive to promote 'British values' would no doubt back the school and the school certainly ought to know that.

That's why I'm a little sceptical.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was wondering if this is a uniquely English trait, Yet another of the frequent "PC gone mad" urban myths that frequently occur though when asked for specifics there is absolutely no basis in truth.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I was wondering if this is a uniquely English trait, Yet another of the frequent "PC gone mad" urban myths that frequently occur though when asked for specifics there is absolutely no basis in truth. "

Highly likely

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

"I'm impressed on how many variations on a theme there are when it comes to

Muslim bashing threads.

well im unimpressed by how few there are.

Are you saying there should be more?

What do you think? im saying im surprised there aren't more.

I am struggling to understand your posts as I am sure they contradict themselves.

Are you saying you are surprised there are not more Muslim bashing threads because of some peoples attitudes on it? Or that you think there should be more Muslim bashing threads?

( Hopefully an answer will put it to bed then )

I'm still in the dark on this, too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think there'd should be more Muslim bashing enquiries.

Were way to afraid of upsetting people in this country.

If you want to set up sharia law fuck off to a Muslim country and do it.

I can't walk into a bank with a Balaclava on or a crash helmet but Muslim women can with a burka!.

One law for everyone.

And if it doesn't suit you and your unhappy your free to leave anytime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there'd should be more Muslim bashing enquiries.

Were way to afraid of upsetting people in this country.

If you want to set up sharia law fuck off to a Muslim country and do it.

I can't walk into a bank with a Balaclava on or a crash helmet but Muslim women can with a burka!.

One law for everyone.

And if it doesn't suit you and your unhappy your free to leave anytime."

How is allowing a Muslim woman to wear a burqa setting up Shariah law?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there'd should be more Muslim bashing enquiries.

Were way to afraid of upsetting people in this country.

If you want to set up sharia law fuck off to a Muslim country and do it.

I can't walk into a bank with a Balaclava on or a crash helmet but Muslim women can with a burka!.

One law for everyone.

And if it doesn't suit you and your unhappy your free to leave anytime."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there'd should be more Muslim bashing enquiries.

Were way to afraid of upsetting people in this country.

If you want to set up sharia law fuck off to a Muslim country and do it.

I can't walk into a bank with a Balaclava on or a crash helmet but Muslim women can with a burka!.

One law for everyone.

And if it doesn't suit you and your unhappy your free to leave anytime.

You didn't answer if you wanted more Islam bashing posts or not...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there'd should be more Muslim bashing enquiries.

Were way to afraid of upsetting people in this country.

If you want to set up sharia law fuck off to a Muslim country and do it.

I can't walk into a bank with a Balaclava on or a crash helmet but Muslim women can with a burka!.

One law for everyone.

And if it doesn't suit you and your unhappy your free to leave anytime.

How is allowing a Muslim woman to wear a burqa setting up Shariah law?"
.

I never said it did.

I said the law favours one person and not the whole therefore I'm against it.

Pussy foot around with rules and laws for fear of upsetting people is a slippery slope.

And let's not bullshit and get all pc about it, there are thousands of Muslims that wish to bring sharia law into the UK.

And I'm totally opposed to any religious nonsense getting involved in state issues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there'd should be more Muslim bashing enquiries.

Were way to afraid of upsetting people in this country.

If you want to set up sharia law fuck off to a Muslim country and do it.

I can't walk into a bank with a Balaclava on or a crash helmet but Muslim women can with a burka!.

One law for everyone.

And if it doesn't suit you and your unhappy your free to leave anytime.

How is allowing a Muslim woman to wear a burqa setting up Shariah law?.

I never said it did.

I said the law favours one person and not the whole therefore I'm against it.

Pussy foot around with rules and laws for fear of upsetting people is a slippery slope.

And let's not bullshit and get all pc about it, there are thousands of Muslims that wish to bring sharia law into the UK.

And I'm totally opposed to any religious nonsense getting involved in state issues."

Good intelligent post!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there'd should be more Muslim bashing enquiries.

Were way to afraid of upsetting people in this country.

If you want to set up sharia law fuck off to a Muslim country and do it.

I can't walk into a bank with a Balaclava on or a crash helmet but Muslim women can with a burka!.

One law for everyone.

And if it doesn't suit you and your unhappy your free to leave anytime."

is it because you can't see their faces...

Most muslim women have no issue showing their face if there's a security concern... Most muslim men have no issue removing or trimming their beards if it's necessary - I know of people who did so they could box and one friend who did because he was asked to do so when training to fly a plane.

To be honest...a massive number of Muslim men don't keep beards and girls don't wear the niqab nor cover their hair.

So long as people accept the laws, and as with all societies, a significant majority do, and live within their limits, that's all that matters, no?

I'm not sure which shariah law has crept into our British system...

There is always a small minority of people all colours, creeds and origins residing in any country that bend or break laws.... Such is human nature... It keeps law enforcement in employment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there'd should be more Muslim bashing enquiries.

Were way to afraid of upsetting people in this country.

If you want to set up sharia law fuck off to a Muslim country and do it.

I can't walk into a bank with a Balaclava on or a crash helmet but Muslim women can with a burka!.

One law for everyone.

And if it doesn't suit you and your unhappy your free to leave anytime.

How is allowing a Muslim woman to wear a burqa setting up Shariah law?.

I never said it did.

I said the law favours one person and not the whole therefore I'm against it.

Pussy foot around with rules and laws for fear of upsetting people is a slippery slope.

And let's not bullshit and get all pc about it, there are thousands of Muslims that wish to bring sharia law into the UK.

And I'm totally opposed to any religious nonsense getting involved in state issues."

You pretty much did say that.

There's nothing "PC" about the right of having the freedom to practice religion within the law. Your posts are predominantly anti-Islam, I've never seen your profile condemn Buddhism, Sikhism, Christianity, etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there'd should be more Muslim bashing enquiries.

Were way to afraid of upsetting people in this country.

If you want to set up sharia law fuck off to a Muslim country and do it.

I can't walk into a bank with a Balaclava on or a crash helmet but Muslim women can with a burka!.

One law for everyone.

And if it doesn't suit you and your unhappy your free to leave anytime."

Enquiries?

Could you explain how Sharia law is being introduced?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think there'd should be more Muslim bashing enquiries.

Were way to afraid of upsetting people in this country.

If you want to set up sharia law fuck off to a Muslim country and do it.

I can't walk into a bank with a Balaclava on or a crash helmet but Muslim women can with a burka!.

One law for everyone.

And if it doesn't suit you and your unhappy your free to leave anytime.

How is allowing a Muslim woman to wear a burqa setting up Shariah law?.

I never said it did.

I said the law favours one person and not the whole therefore I'm against it.

Pussy foot around with rules and laws for fear of upsetting people is a slippery slope.

And let's not bullshit and get all pc about it, there are thousands of Muslims that wish to bring sharia law into the UK.

And I'm totally opposed to any religious nonsense getting involved in state issues.

You pretty much did say that.

PC is just a lazy insult. It gives no credibility nor fails to strengthen any argument.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

You didn't answer if you wanted more Islam bashing posts or not..."

I'm still interested in that one, too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You didn't answer if you wanted more Islam bashing posts or not...

I'm still interested in that one, too.

im keeping you guessing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You didn't answer if you wanted more Islam bashing posts or not...

I'm still interested in that one, too.

im keeping you guessing.

I noticed that.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Oh my days!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You didn't answer if you wanted more Islam bashing posts or not...

I'm still interested in that one, too.

im keeping you guessing.

Why? Have the courage of your convictions. Unless, of course, you're ashamed of what you believe in - in which case, maybe it's time to reconsider.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I love talking about culture.

Here are my 5 cents on the subject.

The more people that 'tolerate' and 'integrate' cultures into a society, the more hate it will create within said society.

You don't expect me or any other person to go to another country and ask for my culture to be taken into account, that's down right disrespectful to the culture and the people you are trying to live with.

Early immigrants may have bundled up into groups because of language, customs, religion, food and perhaps wanted to protect these at all costs by getting SJWs to fight for them, sadly they won those battlez ... And as the years went by Britain has become a mumbo jumbo, and practically cultureless thanks to those SJWs. As an immigrants' child I like being British, but like me there are many others that feel like they don't belong to a cultureless Britain, this doesn't just happen with minorities, even British born and bred youngsters hate Britain.

Something has gone very wrong in between generations and the clash of cultures, and both SJWs and close minded immigrants are to blame.

A utopian city of multiculturalism can't exist, because it compromises the people that lived there first and benefits the new people, it shouldn't have happened that way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You didn't answer if you wanted more Islam bashing posts or not...

I'm still interested in that one, too.

im keeping you guessing.

Why? Have the courage of your convictions. Unless, of course, you're ashamed of what you believe in - in which case, maybe it's time to reconsider. "

No reason to be ashamed, what so ever, have you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"PC is just a lazy insult. It gives no credibility nor fails to strengthen any argument."

It's backwards to me - there's nothing "PC" about basic human rights. It's an archaic, right wing phrase to trivialise hate speech and progression.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I think maybe it is time to leave it there now

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