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Working/Benifits??

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By *ancblue28 OP   Man
over a year ago

manchester

Why do I bother working anymore...Just reading/watching news I get annoyed...I get up early and work hard and read about a couple who are going to spend 1500 quid on two children for xmas.I wish I could spend that on my daughter for xmas I get some people should be on benefits when they fall on hard times but way to many people abuse the system....Anyway rant over and happy Xmas fabbers

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

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By *ancblue28 OP   Man
over a year ago

manchester


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it? "

One of the red tops a few days ago.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What an earth are they buying?

I'm scrimping by as usual. But at least the bills are paid x

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Regardless of where the money came from, £1500 for two kids Xmas is just daft.

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By *mm_n_ZedCouple
over a year ago

Fareham

Apparently they've been able to save the money over the course of a year by him changing from filter tip fags to roll ups and she's given up her £45 a month beauty treatments.

I hold down two jobs and won't be spending that on presents - and I don't smoke or spend £45 a month on 'fripperies'. I'm clearly going wrong somewhere.

Emm

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago."

Oh right.

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By *ancblue28 OP   Man
over a year ago

manchester


"What an earth are they buying?

I'm scrimping by as usual. But at least the bills are paid x "

Same as

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe it's just me but there was a time when we were quite happy with just one maybe two smallish presents. And time with yer parents, not having to work two jobs to make ends meet.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I don't know the details of this story so I can't comment.

What I do know from our experience of living on benefits is that kind of expenditure just wouldn't be possible.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Benefits.. If you need them fair play! Scrounges boil my piss!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago."

It must be true then

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By *razedcatMan
over a year ago

London / Herts


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago.

It must be true then "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago.

It must be true then "

That's just what I was about to say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago.

Oh right.

"

It was in The Sun.

Judging by this thread their agenda clearly worked. Are people really so niave that they miss the clear agenda of a story like this. It's not exactly news is it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago.

Oh right.

It was in The Sun.

Judging by this thread their agenda clearly worked. Are people really so niave that they miss the clear agenda of a story like this. It's not exactly news is it?"

Isn't this the same Sun that put it's weight behind Nu-Labour in 1997?

Surely people weren't so naive as to vote in the wrost Government in my living memory?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago.

Oh right.

It was in The Sun.

Judging by this thread their agenda clearly worked. Are people really so niave that they miss the clear agenda of a story like this. It's not exactly news is it?"

No. But I really can't be bothered to try.changing entrenched opinion any more.

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By *ancblue28 OP   Man
over a year ago

manchester


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago.

Oh right.

It was in The Sun.

Judging by this thread their agenda clearly worked. Are people really so niave that they miss the clear agenda of a story like this. It's not exactly news is it?"

Clearly it's not news to you then....

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By *all-Eddies QosCouple
over a year ago

wirral

Christ....I don't spend that much on 5 kids and my fella.....!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I saw this a few days ago in the Mail. Basically propaganda to turn people against those on benefits, like the documentaries on C4 and C5.

Stories like this annoy me, the people who were the subject of the story are the extreme minority if the story is indeed true which I very much doubt. I deal with people who are on benefits on daily basis and 99.99% of them are on the bones of their backside – existing (not living) hand to mouth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why do I bother working anymore...Just reading/watching news I get annoyed...I get up early and work hard and read about a couple who are going to spend 1500 quid on two children for xmas.I wish I could spend that on my daughter for xmas I get some people should be on benefits when they fall on hard times but way to many people abuse the system....Anyway rant over and happy Xmas fabbers "

The couples' names weren't William and Kate by any chance?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The sun do have a tendency to exaggerate their stories,

It is infuriating though when you see the idiots in this world abuse a system initially intended to help the needy.

In my line of work I deal alot with the more questionable members of society and most of those who I deal with are more Than content to go through life being given rather than earning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago.

Oh right.

It was in The Sun.

Judging by this thread their agenda clearly worked. Are people really so niave that they miss the clear agenda of a story like this. It's not exactly news is it?

Clearly it's not news to you then...."

How is it news to anybody? The story amounts to nothing maore than parents save throughout the year to buy their children presents

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm gonna speculate here and state my belief that a high percentage of those desperate to grab a bargain in Tesco's on Black Friday were in receipt of benefits.

Child Benefit anyone?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mr... I'm self employed and work has really dried up and been told to go and claim dole money but can't bring myself to do it

Xmas !!! Changed days

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Mr... I'm self employed and work has really dried up and been told to go and claim dole money but can't bring myself to do it

Xmas !!! Changed days "

Sorry to hear that, not good news.....especially at this time of year

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By *ancblue28 OP   Man
over a year ago

manchester


"I saw this a few days ago in the Mail. Basically propaganda to turn people against those on benefits, like the documentaries on C4 and C5.

Stories like this annoy me, the people who were the subject of the story are the extreme minority if the story is indeed true which I very much doubt. I deal with people who are on benefits on daily basis and 99.99% of them are on the bones of their backside – existing (not living) hand to mouth.

"

I work in area's with high unemployment mainly moss side,hulme etc.. and met some real genuine decent people who are what the system should be for but....but being called a mug and other expletives by a few people doesn't me me feel exactly great!!

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By *ancblue28 OP   Man
over a year ago

manchester


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago.

Oh right.

It was in The Sun.

Judging by this thread their agenda clearly worked. Are people really so niave that they miss the clear agenda of a story like this. It's not exactly news is it?

Clearly it's not news to you then....

How is it news to anybody? The story amounts to nothing maore than parents save throughout the year to buy their children presents

"

I save as much as I can and pay my way in life and don't get anywhere near that amount for my child but she doesn't to without.It might be bull but it does happen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This was actually in the daily mirror too.. There is more to it than that but it seems the sun decided to miss out.. The father had always worked but was made redundant and didn't sign on until they were basically scrimping for money, hes been going to interviews etc but so far no luck, the mother on the other hand choosen not to work.

Sorry for spelling.. Half asleep

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Mr... I'm self employed and work has really dried up and been told to go and claim dole money but can't bring myself to do it

Xmas !!! Changed days

Sorry to hear that, not good news.....especially at this time of year "
ta x

Sky tv cut off now lol

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By *liceandraWoman
over a year ago

with the faries

This time last year we were in a situation were we were getting JSA we has £200 a week to live off for a family of four, that had to pay for heating, electricity, food and cleaning stuff. Three or four times we had to go to the food bank for handouts, something that did not sit well with me. I was always the one to give to charity not take from it. My husband lost his job in the April and due to health reasons I had to stop work as I have fibromyalgia and sever vertigo. I had worked up until that point and so had my husband both having been played for well over twenty five years. We could get the bare minimum from the dole and family helped us out as much as they could. My husband applied for six or seven jobs a week but could get nothing. I have no idea how these people could claim so much when we could get very little

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why do I bother working anymore...Just reading/watching news I get annoyed...I get up early and work hard and read about a couple who are going to spend 1500 quid on two children for xmas.I wish I could spend that on my daughter for xmas I get some people should be on benefits when they fall on hard times but way to many people abuse the system....Anyway rant over and happy Xmas fabbers "

Exactly. Give up your job then.

It's piss easy being on benefits and you'll be well better off, so just do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To the people who read this sort of tripe, the ones you should be annoyed with are not those on benefits - as you have read, above, would you like to feed a family of four on 200 quid a week? - but the writers of this sort of nonsense - and the power brokers behind them. When I read the first post, I wondered to myself whether such crap was being spewed by the Sun or the Mail (yet again). Lo and behold, both are mentioned. Both are also in bed with the current government who are doing their best to demonise the weakest and poorest members of society. Because that is easier than looking at the richest and most powerful, most of whom earn huge amounts without paying much back in (tax evasion/avoidance). Sadly when you believe this sort of propaganda, you perpetuate the myth. To those who resent benefits, give up your job and try it (as has just been suggested): on JSA, you will have a whole 70 pounds a week to live on. You will only have to pay for gas, water, electricity, food, emergency contingencies and the extra you have to find for the shortfall in Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit. Clearly, there will be lots left to enjoy running expensive cars, holidays abroad, nights out, booze, cigarettes and ''. Ten pounds a day (less money spent on the above) goes such a long way, you will even be able to have a great Christmas, lavishing presents on your nearest and dearest. So, go ahead. Give up your job!

Of course, it gets tougher to survive when the Government sanctions your benefits and you have no money coming in for the next month. But by the time that's happened, you will probably have a few grand saved up, so why worry about that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To finish my point, there were a couple of points made on Forum threads, both of which have been highlighted by this thread: one asked whether people actually believed the stuff they read in the press. As we can see, they do. Secondly, it was asked if being called a Daily Mail reader was a terrible insult. I'm not even going down that route this early in the day!

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By *leepyangelCouple
over a year ago

over the hill and far away

I unfortunately lost my job a few months ago and I am waiting to start my new one.

I'm on benefits and it is the most soul destroying, degrading time of my life.

I hate it and can't wait to start work again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I unfortunately lost my job a few months ago and I am waiting to start my new one.

I'm on benefits and it is the most soul destroying, degrading time of my life.

I hate it and can't wait to start work again. "

That, of course, is the reality: but not one that sells papers or helps get the Tories re-elected, so not one that tends to get heard. Too many would rather believe the Mail than use their sense to see the truth

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't know the details of this story so I can't comment.

What I do know from our experience of living on benefits is that kind of expenditure just wouldn't be possible."

Agreed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To the people who read this sort of tripe, the ones you should be annoyed with are not those on benefits - as you have read, above, would you like to feed a family of four on 200 quid a week? - but the writers of this sort of nonsense - and the power brokers behind them. When I read the first post, I wondered to myself whether such crap was being spewed by the Sun or the Mail (yet again). Lo and behold, both are mentioned. Both are also in bed with the current government who are doing their best to demonise the weakest and poorest members of society. Because that is easier than looking at the richest and most powerful, most of whom earn huge amounts without paying much back in (tax evasion/avoidance). Sadly when you believe this sort of propaganda, you perpetuate the myth. To those who resent benefits, give up your job and try it (as has just been suggested): on JSA, you will have a whole 70 pounds a week to live on. You will only have to pay for gas, water, electricity, food, emergency contingencies and the extra you have to find for the shortfall in Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit. Clearly, there will be lots left to enjoy running expensive cars, holidays abroad, nights out, booze, cigarettes and ''. Ten pounds a day (less money spent on the above) goes such a long way, you will even be able to have a great Christmas, lavishing presents on your nearest and dearest. So, go ahead. Give up your job!

Of course, it gets tougher to survive when the Government sanctions your benefits and you have no money coming in for the next month. But by the time that's happened, you will probably have a few grand saved up, so why worry about that?

"

They know its not really better on benefits or else they really would just give up their jobs and try to claim them and have the easy life they moan about wanting. I don't even bother explaining to people like that, their own actions contradict everything they say.

Quoting you though so they have to read what you said twice as they scroll down...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yet again the genuine folk on benefits are being tarred with same brush whether this is true regarding the story in paper being factually true is another matter.

At the moment so much propoganda about folk on benefits its very scary.

If the same papers and government went after big businesses ie starbucks etc re tax then would be fairer but because they have noses in same trough and because it would involve upsetting the apple cart its easier to target the less well off in society.

I am in no way defending anyone fiddling the system but keep a balanced view on the system.

The family involved have not been accused of cheating the system all they have done is in my view gone way over the top.

Perhaps they are vety good at scrimping and saving.

Take blinkers off for a monent regarding folk in work getting different benefits ie say working tax credits.

Fact is there are set poverty lines that even the torues accept are loe hence need to have benefits to top up income to basic level.

If the minimum wage was actually increased to what is classed as living wage this would reduce butden on the state businesses already get tax relief on things so for smaller businesses this could be possibly adjusted.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge


"I saw this a few days ago in the Mail. Basically propaganda to turn people against those on benefits, like the documentaries on C4 and C5.

Stories like this annoy me, the people who were the subject of the story are the extreme minority if the story is indeed true which I very much doubt. I deal with people who are on benefits on daily basis and 99.99% of them are on the bones of their backside – existing (not living) hand to mouth.

"

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By *rsIdiotWoman
over a year ago

Bedworth


"This time last year we were in a situation were we were getting JSA we has £200 a week to live off for a family of four, that had to pay for heating, electricity, food and cleaning stuff. Three or four times we had to go to the food bank for handouts, something that did not sit well with me. I was always the one to give to charity not take from it. My husband lost his job in the April and due to health reasons I had to stop work as I have fibromyalgia and sever vertigo. I had worked up until that point and so had my husband both having been played for well over twenty five years. We could get the bare minimum from the dole and family helped us out as much as they could. My husband applied for six or seven jobs a week but could get nothing. I have no idea how these people could claim so much when we could get very little"

You got far more than my ex husband and I did when we were both out of work. As far as I can remember, they gave us £76 a week for us both!

He found some casual work on the turnstiles at a local football club and they deducted a minimum of £20 every week, regardless of whether he'd worked that week or not. He had to give it up as we were worse off and we both refused to break the law by not telling them.

How the papers come up with these people who allegedly get thousands of pounds in benefits is beyond me

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull


"I unfortunately lost my job a few months ago and I am waiting to start my new one.

I'm on benefits and it is the most soul destroying, degrading time of my life.

I hate it and can't wait to start work again. "

I was out of work 4 years ago and was unemployed for almost a year before I found work again. It was tough going, as JSA didn't go far. By the time I budgeted for Gas, Electricity, water rates, and all the other essentials, I'd £11 per week for food to live on. Yes, I had my Council Tax paid for, I often lived wrapped up in several layers of clothing to save on the heating costs, but in short did everything I could to find work - 920 applications in 9 months.

When I did find work, I was 6 weeks away from handing my house keys back to the Mortgage company.

I used up what savings I had. I don't smoke and drink. I kept a boring life to get by, even to play it by the book and be honest! Plus, I am single.

Therein lies some aspects of the Benefits "system" as explained by a (frankly, very honest) Job Centre Advisor. The system penalises those who do it by the book. It penalises Single persons. If I'd been married with kids, the government and local Council would have had money to throw at me.

But by merely being Single and being honest, I ranked lower on the needs scale."

He said that Job Centre and Benefits personnel see the scroungers, the cheats and skivers, day in and day out but are powerless to act. Even if they do report them, the system is so overloaded, that it can take months for even the most basic action to start.

A lot of people on benefits are decent, but like me when I was out of work, they get by, they exist as they pick up what good there is in their lives and try for something better!

But of course, newspapers or CH4 or CH5 programme makers won't see this as worthy of reporting. No, concentrate on the scroungers, it's sells more copies or is better Telly!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Regardless of where the money came from, £1500 for two kids Xmas is just daft."

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By *ngel n tedCouple
over a year ago

maidstone

On the plus side, i've just seen the word "fripperies"........fantastic!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"On the plus side, i've just seen the word "fripperies"........fantastic! "

Flaky ones with jam in?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Although not having received benefits myself, I know some genuine people who lost their jobs and really struggled to get anything, despite clearly having fallen on hard times. The benefits they received allowed an existence & it was only when they managed to get back into work they could start to live again. I think there must be a knack of using the benefits system to best advantage though, as near to me is a family, who to my knowledge have never worked in all the years I've lived here. Can always be found in the pub, buying cigs from the corner shop & spending on items & can't afford (large screen TV's etc)

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By *mm_n_ZedCouple
over a year ago

Fareham


"On the plus side, i've just seen the word "fripperies"........fantastic! "

I'm here to please

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)

To be perfectly honest in most instances the benefit system works well if you find out exactly what you are entitled to. They don't tell you so you need to dig and do it for yourself. As a single mother when I was signed off sick I got child benefit esa and tax credits. This is enough to survive on as rent and council tax was paid and when not extravagant with what you buy there is no scraping the bottom of the barrel. I even managed to save £20 a month. Not a lot I know but still is helped for Christmas. I don't smoke so no expense there and I didn't go out that much especially when a birthday was coming up. Most scrape by because they are spending their money all wrong on cigarettes alcohol drugs and tattoos. If they were less self indulgent their children wouldn't be living of handouts from the food bank. Yes I've been in a position once where I had to rely on the food bank but this was because my neighbour reported me saying someone lived with me when they did not. So my money was stopped as they investigated. It was the worst time in my life and I felt so useless. There are those out there that constantly rely on food banks because of self indulgence. I think some money should be taken away and instead given as food vouchers so that over abuse of food banks can not take plase

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Try looking at the benefits web page and look at what you can claim. Just fill in the form as if wete unemployed, think you would be surprised at what a cpl with 3 kids get or even a single parent gets, and it makes you understand why ppl choose not to work

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

Despite what you may read in the red tops the MAIN problem with the benefit system is the difficulty in getting benefits.

By the time any benefit is paid debt has been run up, which is almost impossible to clear whilst on benefits and could indeed take months to clear when in work again.

It can take months to actually get what you are entitled to and some people never get the full amount they are entitled to.

This means people are frightened to take jobs they are not sure will be permanent or at least long term.

This is because if they take a job and it ends through no fault of their own they could by made homeless before they fought their way through the benefit system again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

dont get me started - in fact im not going to comment as im having a lovely nice thread day and im all happy and dont want to get riled just yet - i might be back later though

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Yes I've been in a position once where I had to rely on the food bank but this was because my neighbour reported me saying someone lived with me when they did not. So my money was stopped as they investigated. It was the worst time in my life and I felt so useless. There are those out there that constantly rely on food banks because of self indulgence. I think some money should be taken away and instead given as food vouchers so that over abuse of food banks can not take plase"

If you had to rely on a foodbank you will know that vouchers are issued by certain agencies in order that you can visit it isn't possible to just turn up and you can only be helped twice in a sox month period. Abuse of foodbanks is rare and over abuse almost unheard of.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Try looking at the benefits web page and look at what you can claim. Just fill in the form as if wete unemployed, think you would be surprised at what a cpl with 3 kids get or even a single parent gets, and it makes you understand why ppl choose not to work"

Don't work then.

Simple

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To be perfectly honest in most instances the benefit system works well if you find out exactly what you are entitled to. They don't tell you so you need to dig and do it for yourself. As a single mother when I was signed off sick I got child benefit esa and tax credits. This is enough to survive on as rent and council tax was paid and when not extravagant with what you buy there is no scraping the bottom of the barrel. I even managed to save £20 a month. Not a lot I know but still is helped for Christmas. I don't smoke so no expense there and I didn't go out that much especially when a birthday was coming up. Most scrape by because they are spending their money all wrong on cigarettes alcohol drugs and tattoos. If they were less self indulgent their children wouldn't be living of handouts from the food bank. Yes I've been in a position once where I had to rely on the food bank but this was because my neighbour reported me saying someone lived with me when they did not. So my money was stopped as they investigated. It was the worst time in my life and I felt so useless. There are those out there that constantly rely on food banks because of self indulgence. I think some money should be taken away and instead given as food vouchers so that over abuse of food banks can not take plase"

You should not post stuff like this if you found the benefits system helped you. You are perpetuating some of the myths.

You say you were not spending on anything frivolous, yet saved just 5 pounds a week.

You were on ESA (inter alia). How would you have managed on JSA? Your income would have been £50 a week less.

How would you have cut your spending by £45 a week?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

There seems to be some misinformation concerning food banks even by those who've used then perhaps it's different in this area.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


". Secondly, it was asked if being called a Daily Mail reader was a terrible insult. "

Actually the question was do people accuse others of reading the Daily Mail because they are not winning a debate more than being called a Daily Mail reader being an insult

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Try looking at the benefits web page and look at what you can claim. Just fill in the form as if wete unemployed, think you would be surprised at what a cpl with 3 kids get or even a single parent gets, and it makes you understand why ppl choose not to work

Don't work then.

Simple "

It seems that people have too much "pride" to do that meaning obviously that if you claim benefits you have none.

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By *rsIdiotWoman
over a year ago

Bedworth


"Try looking at the benefits web page and look at what you can claim. Just fill in the form as if wete unemployed, think you would be surprised at what a cpl with 3 kids get or even a single parent gets, and it makes you understand why ppl choose not to work"

Then try looking at it as a person or couple with no children!

When I was unemployed there were many times when I went hungry as there was just no money left for food after paying the gas and electricity bills.

And no, I did not smoke or go out before anyone asks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


". Secondly, it was asked if being called a Daily Mail reader was a terrible insult.

Actually the question was do people accuse others of reading the Daily Mail because they are not winning a debate more than being called a Daily Mail reader being an insult "

The thread was "Seems to be a popular insult"

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Try looking at the benefits web page and look at what you can claim. Just fill in the form as if wete unemployed, think you would be surprised at what a cpl with 3 kids get or even a single parent gets, and it makes you understand why ppl choose not to work

Then try looking at it as a person or couple with no children!

When I was unemployed there were many times when I went hungry as there was just no money left for food after paying the gas and electricity bills.

And no, I did not smoke or go out before anyone asks "

People don't want to know about the majority of decent, ordinary people who struggle to eat and keep warm. They just want to be outraged and angry about minority.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Try looking at the benefits web page and look at what you can claim. Just fill in the form as if wete unemployed, think you would be surprised at what a cpl with 3 kids get or even a single parent gets, and it makes you understand why ppl choose not to work

Don't work then.

Simple

It seems that people have too much "pride" to do that meaning obviously that if you claim benefits you have none."

That is what they will say, yes: of course, they know it's nonsense that being on benefits is a comfortable life. They ultimately know you are better off working than not working. But how many will admit that?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


". Secondly, it was asked if being called a Daily Mail reader was a terrible insult.

Actually the question was do people accuse others of reading the Daily Mail because they are not winning a debate more than being called a Daily Mail reader being an insult

The thread was "Seems to be a popular insult""

Quoted from the OP on the thread in question.

"Seems to be a popular insult on threads recently, when posters are accused of being Daily Mail readers, solely because they don't agree with another poster."

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

To the OP...not a clue about the story...BUT I think that is an obscene amount of money to be spent on Christmas presents, wherever the money came from but unless they were fiddling then I don't know how they would save that much money up while on benefits.

There are some people who milk the system but the best part of people who have to claim benefits are not living the life of riley

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)


"Yes I've been in a position once where I had to rely on the food bank but this was because my neighbour reported me saying someone lived with me when they did not. So my money was stopped as they investigated. It was the worst time in my life and I felt so useless. There are those out there that constantly rely on food banks because of self indulgence. I think some money should be taken away and instead given as food vouchers so that over abuse of food banks can not take plase

If you had to rely on a foodbank you will know that vouchers are issued by certain agencies in order that you can visit it isn't possible to just turn up and you can only be helped twice in a sox month period. Abuse of foodbanks is rare and over abuse almost unheard of.

"

Not true as I had mine sorted through my daughters school family welfare worker so I never actually went to the food bank or got any vouchers. I'm talking about getting vouchers to use in supermarkets on certain food types. I have heard of food banks being used on an almost monthly basis. Everything in the welfare system is open to abuse. Just because it goes unheard of that doesn't mean it doesn't happen

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Try looking at the benefits web page and look at what you can claim. Just fill in the form as if wete unemployed, think you would be surprised at what a cpl with 3 kids get or even a single parent gets, and it makes you understand why ppl choose not to work

Don't work then.

Simple "

Oh we both work alright but we work so we can provide the good thing's in life for our family and enjoy the benefits it brings to us

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"To the people who read this sort of tripe, the ones you should be annoyed with are not those on benefits - as you have read, above, would you like to feed a family of four on 200 quid a week? - but the writers of this sort of nonsense - and the power brokers behind them. When I read the first post, I wondered to myself whether such crap was being spewed by the Sun or the Mail (yet again). Lo and behold, both are mentioned. Both are also in bed with the current government who are doing their best to demonise the weakest and poorest members of society. Because that is easier than looking at the richest and most powerful, most of whom earn huge amounts without paying much back in (tax evasion/avoidance). Sadly when you believe this sort of propaganda, you perpetuate the myth. To those who resent benefits, give up your job and try it (as has just been suggested): on JSA, you will have a whole 70 pounds a week to live on. You will only have to pay for gas, water, electricity, food, emergency contingencies and the extra you have to find for the shortfall in Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit. Clearly, there will be lots left to enjoy running expensive cars, holidays abroad, nights out, booze, cigarettes and ''. Ten pounds a day (less money spent on the above) goes such a long way, you will even be able to have a great Christmas, lavishing presents on your nearest and dearest. So, go ahead. Give up your job!

Of course, it gets tougher to survive when the Government sanctions your benefits and you have no money coming in for the next month. But by the time that's happened, you will probably have a few grand saved up, so why worry about that?

"

As a person who has worked all of his life and being a positive contributor to the system I can't help but agree with everything you say.

I do though think there is a change in the air and this nasty politics is on it's way out, I it obvious that the mail, sun, benefits Britain go out of their way to find the extremes. I think most of us actually feel lucky for our lot if we are in work and would never want to go through life on the dole.

I will never begrudge so done on the dole with sky TV and a flat screen, it's generally their main form of social interaction and entertainment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I normally try and steer clear of threads like this, but I hope I can add something useful. Without doubt there are some people who play the benefits system - in the same way that some people fare dodge, make false or inflated insurance claims, add a little extra to their expenses at work - but based on the evidence I have seen (through working in this and related sectors for 20 years) it is by far the minority. As the people here who have experienced directly have put it much more eloquently than I ever could, life on benefits for most is a struggle.

But what I find most frustrating is the role of the press - in my job I have to work with them, and it is very frustrating when a report that is 99.9% positive has the 0.1% reported as that is the part that fits in with that particular newspapers agenda. Have no doubt, their is no news in a newspaper, just opinion.

I found a story on the BBC website this week most illuminating about a Russian News outlet that promised a day or reporting good news only - and on that day their circulation figures plummeted. So we get the news we want to hear - very depressing (mind you, as it was reported on a press website should I believe it?)

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)


"To be perfectly honest in most instances the benefit system works well if you find out exactly what you are entitled to. They don't tell you so you need to dig and do it for yourself. As a single mother when I was signed off sick I got child benefit esa and tax credits. This is enough to survive on as rent and council tax was paid and when not extravagant with what you buy there is no scraping the bottom of the barrel. I even managed to save £20 a month. Not a lot I know but still is helped for Christmas. I don't smoke so no expense there and I didn't go out that much especially when a birthday was coming up. Most scrape by because they are spending their money all wrong on cigarettes alcohol drugs and tattoos. If they were less self indulgent their children wouldn't be living of handouts from the food bank. Yes I've been in a position once where I had to rely on the food bank but this was because my neighbour reported me saying someone lived with me when they did not. So my money was stopped as they investigated. It was the worst time in my life and I felt so useless. There are those out there that constantly rely on food banks because of self indulgence. I think some money should be taken away and instead given as food vouchers so that over abuse of food banks can not take plase

You should not post stuff like this if you found the benefits system helped you. You are perpetuating some of the myths.

You say you were not spending on anything frivolous, yet saved just 5 pounds a week.

You were on ESA (inter alia). How would you have managed on JSA? Your income would have been £50 a week less.

How would you have cut your spending by £45 a week?"

What myths am I perpetuating?

I spent money on things for the children and not budget food. If I had less I would simply by the budget ranges. I had high heating bills because I hate being cold so my flat was always kept warm. I have a cat so things were bought for her too. Most people don't save anything each month including those in work.

Why should I not talk about how the system does work if you apply for all that you were entitled to.

I was originally going to apply for jsa but they didn't tell me I could get esa it was the hospital in which I spent almost a month in

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Benefits are there for a reason

My ex sister in law was a benefit cheat

Claiming a single unemployed mother but was working and had her boyfriend living with her

I was working two jobs to pay my bills

She was having luxuries of holidays , sun beds, nails and hair done etc

I saw red one day and reported her to the fraud depot

Her benefits got stopped !

Result

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)


"To the people who read this sort of tripe, the ones you should be annoyed with are not those on benefits - as you have read, above, would you like to feed a family of four on 200 quid a week? - but the writers of this sort of nonsense - and the power brokers behind them. When I read the first post, I wondered to myself whether such crap was being spewed by the Sun or the Mail (yet again). Lo and behold, both are mentioned. Both are also in bed with the current government who are doing their best to demonise the weakest and poorest members of society. Because that is easier than looking at the richest and most powerful, most of whom earn huge amounts without paying much back in (tax evasion/avoidance). Sadly when you believe this sort of propaganda, you perpetuate the myth. To those who resent benefits, give up your job and try it (as has just been suggested): on JSA, you will have a whole 70 pounds a week to live on. You will only have to pay for gas, water, electricity, food, emergency contingencies and the extra you have to find for the shortfall in Council Tax Benefit and Housing Benefit. Clearly, there will be lots left to enjoy running expensive cars, holidays abroad, nights out, booze, cigarettes and ''. Ten pounds a day (less money spent on the above) goes such a long way, you will even be able to have a great Christmas, lavishing presents on your nearest and dearest. So, go ahead. Give up your job!

Of course, it gets tougher to survive when the Government sanctions your benefits and you have no money coming in for the next month. But by the time that's happened, you will probably have a few grand saved up, so why worry about that?

As a person who has worked all of his life and being a positive contributor to the system I can't help but agree with everything you say.

I do though think there is a change in the air and this nasty politics is on it's way out, I it obvious that the mail, sun, benefits Britain go out of their way to find the extremes. I think most of us actually feel lucky for our lot if we are in work and would never want to go through life on the dole.

I will never begrudge so done on the dole with sky TV and a flat screen, it's generally their main form of social interaction and entertainment."

Well having had my first form of income at 12, been a housewife, a single working mother as well as a single mother on benefits I can speak from most spectrums.

I was the most financially secure and happy when I was a single working mother due to the incine boost of working tax credits. If it were not for this benefit I would have been better off as a single mum not working and claiming benefits.

My issue with those that don't work, of which I was guilty of myself when I had no children, is that they are not prepared to take a job they consider beneath them or that they are too good for. Now a jobs a job so long as it pays the bills and keeps you clothed and fed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My experience on benefits mirrors the experiences of others on here. But I've been unlucky enough to have to go through the benefits system twice in 3 years with a family in tow. The first time I was effectively homeless and had to move my family in with my then mother in law. Benefits were 220 a fortnight but council tax was paid and we coped (just) with the added income from child benefit. Then once I started work we received housing benefit and reduced council tax until I earned enough to stop.

The second time was 2 years later and was a very different experience. The same 220 pounds per fortnight however electricity prices had risen as had virtually every other cost of living expense. Council tax was still payable as the system had changed and the real price increases put us over the breadline. Plus changes to the way the benefits office worked meant that I was expected to apply for any job irrespective of my skill sets, failure to do so would mean my payments would have been stopped for 4 weeks.

I find it hard to imagine that any person would want to go through that intentionally however people do. For me it was a very hard period of my life where I was fighting my depression and my ex's worsening illness. Help was the furthest thing almost from what it was

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People that are on benefits are in a dismal situation, Most are up to the eyeballs in debt and living in poverty

Some do play the system ie working at the same time etc but people that are on the bottom of the barrel are barely living, meters running out of electric gas non stop and living frugally every day

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry council tax wasn't paid.

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By *educedWoman
over a year ago

Birmingham

I work in a neighbourhood which is in the top 10% most deprived neighbourhood in England with about 85% - 90% of residents receiving some kind of benefit.

My first point is with regard to referrals to Foodbanks. I am only allowed to refer a client a maximum of three times so this myth that some people are living purely from food bank handouts is incorrect (or at least it is when it comes to the country's largest food bank, The Trussell Trust). It's also worth noting that the majority of people I refer, are working and being topped up by some kind of tax credit.

Secondly our second biggest benefit bill after pensions etc is working tax credit / awarded to those who work but who need extra financial assistance.

The amount of money gained fraudulently by people on other benefits including JSA is just a drop in the ocean compared to the entire welfare benefit bill.

So, what do we do?

Do we believe everything we read in newspapers owned by people/ corporations with more money than some small countries and castigate millions of benefit dependant people or do we (perhaps) look at the way this country is supporting people into work and earning a decent wage?

When I say this country, I don't mean those that are in power, I mean all of us, we all have a part to play.

Every time someone points the finger at someone on benefits you are adding to the problem and the myth!

I know people who are out of work because employers won't give them a chance. They have CV's, work experience through volunteering and qualifications (paid for by Charities like mine and not the state) but because they are receiving benefits or they live in the wrong neighbourhood they have less opportunity. This is a fact.

Society (us) says that people on benefits are scrounges, they all have wide screen televisions and smoke . If society (us) is right (and the likes of the Daily Mail and Jeremy Kyle says we are) then hell no, these people don't deserve jobs or a future, let's just sit on the sidelines and watch a whole generation of people slip away whilst we sit and throw stones.

I haven't been as succinct as I wanted but am very passionate about this whole issue...poor people used to be the salt of the earth back in the days when we all more or less poor!

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Yes I've been in a position once where I had to rely on the food bank but this was because my neighbour reported me saying someone lived with me when they did not. So my money was stopped as they investigated. It was the worst time in my life and I felt so useless. There are those out there that constantly rely on food banks because of self indulgence. I think some money should be taken away and instead given as food vouchers so that over abuse of food banks can not take plase

If you had to rely on a foodbank you will know that vouchers are issued by certain agencies in order that you can visit it isn't possible to just turn up and you can only be helped twice in a sox month period. Abuse of foodbanks is rare and over abuse almost unheard of.

Not true as I had mine sorted through my daughters school family welfare worker so I never actually went to the food bank or got any vouchers. I'm talking about getting vouchers to use in supermarkets on certain food types. I have heard of food banks being used on an almost monthly basis. Everything in the welfare system is open to abuse. Just because it goes unheard of that doesn't mean it doesn't happen"

Food banks are not part of the welfare system they are run by a charity The Trussel Trust.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The squeeze on benefits (for working and out of work people) is only going to continue, one of the big reasons for this is the continued protection of all pensions and pensioner benefits.

Average pensioner income is now higher than average income.

Yes there will still be some extremely poor pensioners who should be entitled to far more than they get. But when my dad (whose pension is more than my salary and still works 3 days a week anyway, has no mortgage etc...) can get a free bus pass, winter fuel payment, and a myriad of other things it's just crazy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

IMHO The reason that "newspapers" only report seemingly bad news is to make the reader feel better about our own lives and more kindly disposed towards the "newspaper" that reports it to keep us buying that particular one. The material contained within it is irrelevant to a certain extent as long as it fulfills the two main criteria of a newspaper - to make money and to provide a mouthpiece for the usually giant ego's of the owners.

By finding stories of extreme benefit fraud (for example) it gives those who are only fiddling a little bit some moral comfort and validation for their actions. Again meaning more revenue and profit.

I find it depressingly difficult to find actual news.

This is the same principle on which most soap operas and channel 4/channel 5 "documentaries" are based.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Sounds like divide and conquer has worked, when you see these threads. Mind control and manipulation works to keep us directing our attention to what is really being done and causes real harm.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

SINGLE MUM OF 3 HERE ON BENEFITS!

My partner died recently. Don't quite understand why people can't just keep their heads out. Not everyone is the same. We struggle like hell. Don't have the best things, I don't smoke, I don't drink, go out, do or anything. Gas/Elec bills are the worst for me to pay takes up the most of the budget. Think if people kept their own homes in check instead of spouting about the others te world would be a better place.

I refuse to put myself through a 9-5 job while my children are small, because they lost their dad and they will not loose their mum. My job isn't easy it's constant I never get a break, I don't get any help with the kids, I thank god for school and the opportunities that they get to expierence from school.

I've been on both ends, paying tax and receiving benefits and I can never remember acting like I was superior to those who didn't work. If theyre happy to sit in all day then so be it. For me what I take now will be but back when my children are older

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also children don't need £1,500 on them.

Children crave time. Think somewhere along the way people have begun to think money and material substitute family time. Sorry but Christmas isn't about presents. I've spent just over £100 each on my three children. I don't buy tabs or game consoles because we don't need them I'd much rather them sit at the table with me and read, make play doh, do crafts, play snakes and ladders.

Society is money hungry and it's a shame it's not a case of aslong as foods on the table roof over their heads... it's more about as long as theirs a phone connection and an an xbox live id.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also children don't need £1,500 on them.

Children crave time. Think somewhere along the way people have begun to think money and material substitute family time. Sorry but Christmas isn't about presents. I've spent just over £100 each on my three children. I don't buy tabs or game consoles because we don't need them I'd much rather them sit at the table with me and read, make play doh, do crafts, play snakes and ladders.

Society is money hungry and it's a shame it's not a case of aslong as foods on the table roof over their heads... it's more about as long as theirs a phone connection and an an xbox live id."

£100 each*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I contacted a journalist once to try and raise awareness about a medical condition that affected our family.

It was supposed to be part about raising awareness but also a feel good story as everything came good in the end.

She was very pressuring to try and make me say it caused us marital problems. It didn't. She kept saying if I changed my story we would get a lot more money for it. I couldn't believe some of the things she suggested I say.

It put me off going ahead with it so we never did.

But if you're willing to spend your money on sensationalistic tabloid journalism, there's not much I can say...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe if a few more people in this country made the changes they did on behalf of their children theyd have better Christmas budgets too. Well done to them I say. Making the best of what they do have.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"The squeeze on benefits (for working and out of work people) is only going to continue, one of the big reasons for this is the continued protection of all pensions and pensioner benefits.

Average pensioner income is now higher than average income.

Yes there will still be some extremely poor pensioners who should be entitled to far more than they get. But when my dad (whose pension is more than my salary and still works 3 days a week anyway, has no mortgage etc...) can get a free bus pass, winter fuel payment, and a myriad of other things it's just crazy. "

He must have worked all his life for his pension. Do you begrudge him any benefits he can get as an OAP after paying in all his life?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The squeeze on benefits (for working and out of work people) is only going to continue, one of the big reasons for this is the continued protection of all pensions and pensioner benefits.

Average pensioner income is now higher than average income.

Yes there will still be some extremely poor pensioners who should be entitled to far more than they get. But when my dad (whose pension is more than my salary and still works 3 days a week anyway, has no mortgage etc...) can get a free bus pass, winter fuel payment, and a myriad of other things it's just crazy.

He must have worked all his life for his pension. Do you begrudge him any benefits he can get as an OAP after paying in all his life?"

Always makes me laugh when people moan about what the elderly get, yes they get free bus pass, free tv licence, fuel bills etc but all of the elderly do, if they have the common sense to pay into a good pension scheme and have a little bit extra than most in their later life's why should they go without any benifits

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"The squeeze on benefits (for working and out of work people) is only going to continue, one of the big reasons for this is the continued protection of all pensions and pensioner benefits.

Average pensioner income is now higher than average income.

Yes there will still be some extremely poor pensioners who should be entitled to far more than they get. But when my dad (whose pension is more than my salary and still works 3 days a week anyway, has no mortgage etc...) can get a free bus pass, winter fuel payment, and a myriad of other things it's just crazy. "

I think there has to be a means testing of most universal benefits, someone sitting in the Algarve possibly shouldn't need to access winter fuel etc..

the system however probably negates it as demonstrated by Michael Burke when he tried to opt out of his own winter fuel allowance..

that folks choose to believe what the red tops say as gospel, oh well..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The squeeze on benefits (for working and out of work people) is only going to continue, one of the big reasons for this is the continued protection of all pensions and pensioner benefits.

Average pensioner income is now higher than average income.

Yes there will still be some extremely poor pensioners who should be entitled to far more than they get. But when my dad (whose pension is more than my salary and still works 3 days a week anyway, has no mortgage etc...) can get a free bus pass, winter fuel payment, and a myriad of other things it's just crazy.

He must have worked all his life for his pension. Do you begrudge him any benefits he can get as an OAP after paying in all his life?

Always makes me laugh when people moan about what the elderly get, yes they get free bus pass, free tv licence, fuel bills etc but all of the elderly do, if they have the common sense to pay into a good pension scheme and have a little bit extra than most in their later life's why should they go without any benifits"

Course I don't begrudge him, he's my dad and he worked/works really hard, as does my mum, and they both came from a really working class background and did really well for themselves through hard work and education.

But he'd be the first to admit he doesn't NEED a lot of the benefits which are on offer.

When the state pension started, the average pension length was 18 months (if people even made it to retirement age). Thankfully, now men live on average 11 years from retirement age and it's longer for women. It's not difficult to see why the cost pressures are mounting regardless of the recession.

Of course people have paid into the system and deserve a good quality of life - but why so for a 60 year old and not a 50 year old? Why is there some arbitrary line drawn to protect one section of the population from the effect of the cuts and not another?

I pay a lot into the system every month in the form of tax, NI, council tax, pension contributions and so on. Will those benefits still be around when I'm 70? Will they shite. We're going to have to mentally break the link about what we 'deserve' just because we've contributed, even if we don't NEED it - because it's probably not sustainable for the next 5 years never mind 10 or more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I studied Economics at University and had to do a presentation about benefits and whether they were a disincentive to working. The overriding finding was that benefits were not a disincentive to working.

Of course, that's not true for everyone, just the majority. Most would rather be working

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

When my mum reached retirement age (she is 9 years older than my dad) she went to claim her pension here...she has lived in England 40 years and has paid tax and NI for all those 40 years. She was told she was eligible to a penny a week pension. She then applied for a penison in Denmark where she hasn't lived for 40 years and they gave her £400 a month. My mum had to wait for my dad to retire so he could then put a joint penison claim for them. In some aspects the system is great but in some aspects the system is messed up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"When my mum reached retirement age (she is 9 years older than my dad) she went to claim her pension here...she has lived in England 40 years and has paid tax and NI for all those 40 years. She was told she was eligible to a penny a week pension. She then applied for a penison in Denmark where she hasn't lived for 40 years and they gave her £400 a month. My mum had to wait for my dad to retire so he could then put a joint penison claim for them. In some aspects the system is great but in some aspects the system is messed up. "

why was that?? has to be wrong surely

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"When my mum reached retirement age (she is 9 years older than my dad) she went to claim her pension here...she has lived in England 40 years and has paid tax and NI for all those 40 years. She was told she was eligible to a penny a week pension. She then applied for a penison in Denmark where she hasn't lived for 40 years and they gave her £400 a month. My mum had to wait for my dad to retire so he could then put a joint penison claim for them. In some aspects the system is great but in some aspects the system is messed up.

why was that?? has to be wrong surely "

I appealed the decision for her giving information regarding her business and all her finainical information and they said she hadn't paid enough NI contributions. My mum has never been unemployed since living here and built a very successful business. I tried but they still said she was entitled to a penny a week. Luckily she had my dad to fall back on but I just imagined if she was on her own.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I believe people can apply to the NI folk (somewhere in/ near Newcastle?) to find out how much pension you'll get on retirement based on your contributions so far.

You can then choose, if you wish, to make up the contributions you've 'mised'.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

missed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I believe people can apply to the NI folk (somewhere in/ near Newcastle?) to find out how much pension you'll get on retirement based on your contributions so far.

You can then choose, if you wish, to make up the contributions you've 'mised'."

if youve been employed though you shouldnt miss any ??? employer takes it out of wages for you

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By *lactontogMan
over a year ago

Clacton on Sea


"This time last year we were in a situation were we were getting JSA we has £200 a week to live off for a family of four, that had to pay for heating, electricity, food and cleaning stuff. Three or four times we had to go to the food bank for handouts, something that did not sit well with me. I was always the one to give to charity not take from it. My husband lost his job in the April and due to health reasons I had to stop work as I have fibromyalgia and sever vertigo. I had worked up until that point and so had my husband both having been played for well over twenty five years. We could get the bare minimum from the dole and family helped us out as much as they could. My husband applied for six or seven jobs a week but could get nothing. I have no idea how these people could claim so much when we could get very little"

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I believe people can apply to the NI folk (somewhere in/ near Newcastle?) to find out how much pension you'll get on retirement based on your contributions so far.

You can then choose, if you wish, to make up the contributions you've 'mised'.

if youve been employed though you shouldnt miss any ??? employer takes it out of wages for you "

From uk.gov

You may want to pay voluntary contributions because:

you’re close to State Pension age and don’t have enough qualifying years to get the full State Pension

you know you won’t be able to get the qualifying years you need to get the full State Pension during your working life

you want to increase the bereavement benefits your spouse or civil partner gets if you die

you’re self-employed and don’t have to pay Class 2 contributions because you have low earnings or live outside the UK, but you want to qualify for the benefits

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By *uper_gMan
over a year ago

london

I put a friend through to someone to get him a start on a job which paid around the £4k a month wage, sometimes a little more sometimes a little less. He stuck at it for 3 months then to my surprise says to me he better of not working and going on some sort of benifits! Not sure what he was claiming before etc but when he weighs it all up he rather not work.

I was gonna put it down to being pure lazy but he's not like that at all! Just really couldnt get my head round it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I put a friend through to someone to get him a start on a job which paid around the £4k a month wage, sometimes a little more sometimes a little less. He stuck at it for 3 months then to my surprise says to me he better of not working and going on some sort of benifits! Not sure what he was claiming before etc but when he weighs it all up he rather not work.

I was gonna put it down to being pure lazy but he's not like that at all! Just really couldnt get my head round it."

I thought the limit was 25k

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By *uper_gMan
over a year ago

london

What limit?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I put a friend through to someone to get him a start on a job which paid around the £4k a month wage, sometimes a little more sometimes a little less. He stuck at it for 3 months then to my surprise says to me he better of not working and going on some sort of benifits! Not sure what he was claiming before etc but when he weighs it all up he rather not work.

I was gonna put it down to being pure lazy but he's not like that at all! Just really couldnt get my head round it."

£4k a month?! No benefits (unless he has a family of 25 and is in Westminster or Chelsea or something) would ever hit the equivalent of that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What limit?

"

The benefits cap.

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By *uper_gMan
over a year ago

london

God knows! But he jacked it in and says he rather not work. I dont think he is better off as in money wise, but instead of working he can get by just as well, now his got his new 60inch tv and ps4 lol!!!

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By *in with a GrinMan
over a year ago

Carlisle


"I put a friend through to someone to get him a start on a job which paid around the £4k a month wage, sometimes a little more sometimes a little less. He stuck at it for 3 months then to my surprise says to me he better of not working and going on some sort of benifits! Not sure what he was claiming before etc but when he weighs it all up he rather not work.

I was gonna put it down to being pure lazy but he's not like that at all! Just really couldnt get my head round it.

£4k a month?! No benefits (unless he has a family of 25 and is in Westminster or Chelsea or something) would ever hit the equivalent of that. "

Maybe he can get enough to make it worth it when you take tax and transport out. Its a crappy attitude of him though.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"When my mum reached retirement age (she is 9 years older than my dad) she went to claim her pension here...she has lived in England 40 years and has paid tax and NI for all those 40 years. She was told she was eligible to a penny a week pension. She then applied for a penison in Denmark where she hasn't lived for 40 years and they gave her £400 a month. My mum had to wait for my dad to retire so he could then put a joint penison claim for them. In some aspects the system is great but in some aspects the system is messed up. "

NI is paid for in weekly "blocks". each block is a full week, so if you miss just one block in a financial year that year does not count. so if say you are studying full time then you aren't contributing to your NI. If your partner is claiming benefits as a couple you won't be getting your NI payed too unless you sign on as well. if you're a "housewife" (horrible term i know) then you are not paying NI unless you sign on etc. etc. it's up to the individual to keep track of their own NI payments. you can "close gaps" in previous years unless they are gaps going back 7 years then you lose the oppotunity to close them. it's a minefield coz nobody explains how it works and even if you can be arsed to look for yourself it's pretty complex and difficult to fathom out.

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By *eKoopleCouple
over a year ago

Germany / Manchester


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago.

Oh right.

It was in The Sun.

Judging by this thread their agenda clearly worked. Are people really so niave that they miss the clear agenda of a story like this. It's not exactly news is it?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I put a friend through to someone to get him a start on a job which paid around the £4k a month wage, sometimes a little more sometimes a little less. He stuck at it for 3 months then to my surprise says to me he better of not working and going on some sort of benifits! Not sure what he was claiming before etc but when he weighs it all up he rather not work.

I was gonna put it down to being pure lazy but he's not like that at all! Just really couldnt get my head round it.

£4k a month?! No benefits (unless he has a family of 25 and is in Westminster or Chelsea or something) would ever hit the equivalent of that.

Maybe he can get enough to make it worth it when you take tax and transport out. Its a crappy attitude of him though."

And don't forget cash-in-hand work - it still very much exists, possibly even more so these days. I know someone who is a qualified nurse, but does better financially on benefits and cash work. They've managed to avoid being caught for over five years now.

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


"but does better financially on benefits and cash work. They've managed to avoid being caught for over five years now."

why are people so obsessed with what other people are doing? if you life so bad you have to stick you nose into other peoples?

get on with your own life....... ffs if its so bad you have to be nosey then change it! ffs this is aswingers site were people should live and let live no be bothered if joe next door is making a fiver an hour more than yourself!!!

rant over I step down from my soap box.

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago."

must be true then..............

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"but does better financially on benefits and cash work. They've managed to avoid being caught for over five years now.

why are people so obsessed with what other people are doing? if you life so bad you have to stick you nose into other peoples?

get on with your own life....... ffs if its so bad you have to be nosey then change it! ffs this is aswingers site were people should live and let live no be bothered if joe next door is making a fiver an hour more than yourself!!!

rant over I step down from my soap box."

Why do you assume that because I'm a swinger, I should be readily acceptable of criminals? That makes no sense.

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


"Why do you assume that because I'm a swinger, I should be readily acceptable of criminals? That makes no sense. "

I just don't get all this "I'm better than you" shit that goes on round here....... let them get on with their lives and you get on with yours, is it really anyone's business what they get up too? I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if they were bad mouthing you for shagging strangers ?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Why do you assume that because I'm a swinger, I should be readily acceptable of criminals? That makes no sense.

I just don't get all this "I'm better than you" shit that goes on round here....... let them get on with their lives and you get on with yours, is it really anyone's business what they get up too? I'm sure you'd be the first to complain if they were bad mouthing you for shagging strangers ?

"

This whole thread is based on what other people are getting up to.

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


"This whole thread is based on what other people are getting up to. "

then that is sad...... just makes people here look like an episode of the Jeramey Kylie show......... I am shocked out how conservative a lot people on here seem to be, I really thought it would be a site of open minded individuals not people back stabbing and moaning cause someone else is doing better than you. I know stupid of me but its true.....

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"This whole thread is based on what other people are getting up to.

then that is sad...... just makes people here look like an episode of the Jeramey Kylie show......... I am shocked out how conservative a lot people on here seem to be, I really thought it would be a site of open minded individuals not people back stabbing and moaning cause someone else is doing better than you. I know stupid of me but its true....."

I think this thread is just a discussion and the post you were referring to was just making another point in that discussion.

But this thread aside I am often surprised by the narrow minded attitudes that can be encountered here and soon realised that swingers are just as closed minded as everyone else.

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


" not having to work two jobs to make ends meet. "

blame the frecking media mate they have sold us a false dream..... its not about people, friends and family.. its not about the death and rebirth of the seasons or the birth of Christ, its about how much multinational companies can screw us out of..

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


"But this thread aside I am often surprised by the narrow minded attitudes that can be encountered here and soon realised that swingers are just as closed minded as everyone else."

thanks made me feel better thought it was just me

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By *carineMan
over a year ago

Armthorpe, Doncaster

Maybe if the OP spent more time concentrating on learning English at school, he might know how to spell benefits correctly, thus improving his chances of getting a job that paid more.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Maybe if the OP spent more time concentrating on learning English at school, he might know how to spell benefits correctly, thus improving his chances of getting a job that paid more."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe if the OP spent more time concentrating on learning English at school, he might know how to spell benefits correctly, thus improving his chances of getting a job that paid more."

What job do you do?

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


" I deal with people who are on benefits on daily basis and 99.99% of them are on the bones of their backside – existing (not living) hand to mouth.

"

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By *lactontogMan
over a year ago

Clacton on Sea


" I deal with people who are on benefits on daily basis and 99.99% of them are on the bones of their backside – existing (not living) hand to mouth.

"

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"I believe people can apply to the NI folk (somewhere in/ near Newcastle?) to find out how much pension you'll get on retirement based on your contributions so far.

You can then choose, if you wish, to make up the contributions you've 'mised'.

if youve been employed though you shouldnt miss any ??? employer takes it out of wages for you

From uk.gov

You may want to pay voluntary contributions because:

you’re close to State Pension age and don’t have enough qualifying years to get the full State Pension

you know you won’t be able to get the qualifying years you need to get the full State Pension during your working life

you want to increase the bereavement benefits your spouse or civil partner gets if you die

you’re self-employed and don’t have to pay Class 2 contributions because you have low earnings or live outside the UK, but you want to qualify for the benefits

"

I am so glad someone pointed people in the direction of this.... as it is the department i work in...

if anyone wants further information... pm me and i can give you our main telephone number so people can arrange to get a state pension statement.... with all the changes that are coming in april 2016

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" not having to work two jobs to make ends meet.

blame the frecking media mate they have sold us a false dream..... its not about people, friends and family.. its not about the death and rebirth of the seasons or the birth of Christ, its about how much multinational companies can screw us out of.."

You do realise that you don't have to give in to this, right? If you hate their version, make your own.

OP, for every single story about 'scroungers' in those propaganda papers, I could show you thousands of very vulnerable people who have nothing.

Instead of believing their lies, think for a moment. The media is trying to demonise the weakest in society whilst the rich and powerful fuck us over.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"I believe people can apply to the NI folk (somewhere in/ near Newcastle?) to find out how much pension you'll get on retirement based on your contributions so far.

You can then choose, if you wish, to make up the contributions you've 'mised'.

if youve been employed though you shouldnt miss any ??? employer takes it out of wages for you

from uk.gov

You may want to pay voluntary contributions because:

you’re close to State Pension age and don’t have enough qualifying years to get the full State Pension

you know you won’t be able to get the qualifying years you need to get the full State Pension during your working life

you want to increase the bereavement benefits your spouse or civil partner gets if you die

you’re self-employed and don’t have to pay Class 2 contributions because you have low earnings or live outside the UK, but you want to qualify for the benefits

I am so glad someone pointed people in the direction of this.... as it is the department i work in...

if anyone wants further information... pm me and i can give you our main telephone number so people can arrange to get a state pension statement.... with all the changes that are coming in april 2016"

heya _abio, I find NI a minefield area. can you peruse what i posted earlier and see if i have it correct please, cheers man.


"NI is paid for in weekly "blocks". each block is a full week, so if you miss just one block in a financial year that year does not count. so if say you are studying full time then you aren't contributing to your NI. If your partner is claiming benefits as a couple you won't be getting your NI payed too unless you sign on as well. if you're a "housewife" (horrible term i know) then you are not paying NI unless you sign on etc. etc. it's up to the individual to keep track of their own NI payments. you can "close gaps" in previous years unless they are gaps going back 7 years then you lose the oppotunity to close them. the gaps get more expensive to close the older they get too."

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

It's more pitting the working poor against the workless poor.

The Tory ideology of cutting benefits to "make work pay" - how does reducing someone's benefits make work pay more?

It does nothing to increase pay at all or give anyone more money in their pocket who works.

I don't know why they haven't been taken to task on that more, it's factually incorrect and a smokescreen.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"When my mum reached retirement age (she is 9 years older than my dad) she went to claim her pension here...she has lived in England 40 years and has paid tax and NI for all those 40 years. She was told she was eligible to a penny a week pension. She then applied for a penison in Denmark where she hasn't lived for 40 years and they gave her £400 a month. My mum had to wait for my dad to retire so he could then put a joint penison claim for them. In some aspects the system is great but in some aspects the system is messed up. "

that says to me she was paying the married woman's stamp (small stamp)...... which means she was paying very little national insurance ...

since it scheme ended in 78, and every 2 years they would have written to her asking if she was sure she wanted to keep it (and if they got back no answer they automatically stopped it, because they saw what was coming.....)

all the years she was getting the married womans stamp, because she was paying such a low rate.. none of those years count as years eligible to count towards the individual state pension...

so in her own right hers would have been low, but where hubs reached 65, they then would have qualified for a married persons pension instead....

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

heya _abio, I find NI a minefield area. can you peruse what i posted earlier and see if i have it correct please, cheers man.

NI is paid for in weekly "blocks". each block is a full week, so if you miss just one block in a financial year that year does not count. so if say you are studying full time then you aren't contributing to your NI. If your partner is claiming benefits as a couple you won't be getting your NI payed too unless you sign on as well. if you're a "housewife" (horrible term i know) then you are not paying NI unless you sign on etc. etc. it's up to the individual to keep track of their own NI payments. you can "close gaps" in previous years unless they are gaps going back 7 years then you lose the oppotunity to close them. the gaps get more expensive to close the older they get too."

cool i can....

going to split this into 2 sections ... those who are employed.... and those who are self employed....

if you are employed under PAYE... you will be playing class 1 contributions...

to get it as a qualifying year you need to "earn" in 2014/5 at least £5865 in one job in the financial year before tax over at least a 7 week period...

for example... if you had a brill summer job.. and earn 6k in just those 3 months... you don't need to worry about the other 9

so as long as you average 111 pounds a week... you are fine!!!

if you are self employed.... it is a little bit more awkward...

yes it is done in weekly blocks... and if you missed one block then it yes it won't count.... however you play class2 at the moment as a direct debit (and is normally done in quarterly/half yearly chucks) so it should be the case of missing 1 bit...

as of 15/16, self employed NI conts. are going to be done as part of your yearly tax returns......

if you give our dept a call we can find out all that for you.... yes they will allow anyone at the moment to pay anything in shortfall going back as far as 2006/7, they have frozen those prices, and they won't go up until april 2019......and in theory with all of the changes coming they are going to allow people to pay them until 2023

if someone sets up a "new state pension" thread... i'll answer questions in that...

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

[Removed by poster at 13/12/14 11:52:41]

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

sorry... didn't see all of the other questions... lol

if a person/couple has any children under 12.... whoever's name is on the Child benefit are getting their NI credits covered under what use to be known as Home Responsibilties Protection....

if you are on JSA, ESA, Incapacity ect... you are likely having your NI Credits covered for you.....

if you are getting working tax credits, check... again you may be getting NI credits

one last thing.... if you earn on average between 111-153 pounds per week.. and NI doesn't show on your wage slip... don't panic!!!

those people fall into what we call the "zero band"... which means they are earning enough to get the year covered... but not enough to be paying it individually

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


" Instead of believing their lies, think for a moment. The media is trying to demonise the weakest in society whilst the rich and powerful fuck us over."

big up to you

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


" I deal with people who are on benefits on daily basis and 99.99% of them are on the bones of their backside – existing (not living) hand to mouth.

"

Which is why we should be doing every we can to get them off benefits and out of the poverty trap

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


"

Which is why we should be doing every we can to get them off benefits and out of the poverty trap"

its not that easy, it has suited government for over 30 years to have this system in place only now is it showing its faults as it strains under the pressure.... as for helping those out of poverty into low paid employment dosn't really work...

its a fact that the largest benefit is old age pension (which I for one would means test!) and then its in work benefits which have to be wrong... How many people are employed within the public sector and still having to claim in work benefits? how can that be right?

its going to take a lot of hard work to fix this system, and slagging people off isn't the way forwards.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"It's more pitting the working poor against the workless poor.

The Tory ideology of cutting benefits to "make work pay" - how does reducing someone's benefits make work pay more?

"

The logic behind it is simple. I'm surprised you figure it out for yourself. IF 'in-work' benefits did not exist then the employers would HAVE to pay a living wage or people would not be able to work for them. At best 'in work' benefits are just subsidising inefficient and non competitive companies, at worst they are driving a move towards a low wage economy that is not in the interests of anyone.


"

It does nothing to increase pay at all or give anyone more money in their pocket who works.

"

In the short term, maybe not, but in the long term removing 'in work' benefits would almost definitely lead to increased pay up to at least a living wage.


"

I don't know why they haven't been taken to task on that more, it's factually incorrect and a smokescreen. "

Because it's not factually incorrect. It is in fact quite sound economics.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"

Which is why we should be doing every we can to get them off benefits and out of the poverty trap

its not that easy, it has suited government for over 30 years to have this system in place only now is it showing its faults as it strains under the pressure.... as for helping those out of poverty into low paid employment dosn't really work...

its a fact that the largest benefit is old age pension (which I for one would means test!) and then its in work benefits which have to be wrong... How many people are employed within the public sector and still having to claim in work benefits? how can that be right?

its going to take a lot of hard work to fix this system, and slagging people off isn't the way forwards."

I totally agree that slagging people of is not the way forward. I even said so on a similar thread the other day. If people are legally claiming benefits that they are entitled but which some feel they do not deserve, to it's not them that they should blame but the system and people who created system, that allows this to happen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"God knows! But he jacked it in and says he rather not work. I dont think he is better off as in money wise, but instead of working he can get by just as well, now his got his new 60inch tv and ps4 lol!!! "

I have 4 kids, one disabled and I wouldn't get anywhere near 4k on benefits. And I have never on the Times ive claimed be able to buy or have a huge tv. Or the latest consoles

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


"And I have never on the Times ive claimed be able to buy or have a huge tv. Or the latest consoles

"

this is a hard one, I spoke to a former tory PM I know and he was saying how people on benefits have better I-Phones and massive tv's etc. etc. some people take care of their money, others don't either me you on benefits or not.. I can shve jack for trying never been able too... my sister in law makes a fiver go five ways and still has a tenner left over!!

Benefits arn't an easy way to live, the housing benefit system was bonkers and needed to be changed.. some bastard landlords knew how to charge the maximum rent to their tenants on benefits... that was wrong, not the claimants fault. fair rents should eb made law.

the benefits cap is about fair in most cases.. but it some people suffer esp when they have more complex needs... benefits should be there for those who need them and they should be enough for that person to live on.... not just get by on.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"

benefits should be there for those who need them and they should be enough for that person to live on.... not just get by on."

With the exception of the old, disabled and chronically sick, I'm not sure I really agree with the last part. If you have benefits that are enough to allow a person to live on then that is what some, maybe even many, will do. I don't think that is good for them or for those having to pay for the benefits.

Benefits should be there to help people in genuine need to get back into work or some other way of life that does require them to claim benefits and as such should be only at the level required to 'get by on' not to live on.

It is only by encouraging people to move off benefits that we stand any chance of moving them out of a perpetual life of poverty.

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


"by encouraging people to move off benefits that we stand any chance of moving them out of a perpetual life of poverty.

"

but moving them on to in work benefits isn't always the answer...

I really don't agree anymore with a state pension for all, there' are many people who have enough personal wealth to live off. we could save billions there, esp on the winter fuel payments. I'd also scrap them, they were just vote winners .........

i don't have an answer and neither do the main parties, we need some out of the box thinking here...

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"by encouraging people to move off benefits that we stand any chance of moving them out of a perpetual life of poverty.

but moving them on to in work benefits isn't always the answer...

I really don't agree anymore with a state pension for all, there' are many people who have enough personal wealth to live off. we could save billions there, esp on the winter fuel payments. I'd also scrap them, they were just vote winners .........

i don't have an answer and neither do the main parties, we need some out of the box thinking here... "

I reckon the main parties do indeed have the answers, it's just that the electorate would find them unacceptable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would rather try anything new and see if it works, if not bin it and try something else, it seems at times this country is very backwards at change.

I read somewhere about a country that pays unemployment benefit as thus

1st 3 months you get 80% of whatever your last salary was.

2nd 3 months you get 50% of salary

3rd 3 months you get 30%

Last 3 months you get 20%.

After that nowt unless you regain employment for at least another 6 months then it stated again.

I think it was capped at the average salary so you could never receive more than that anyhow.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"by encouraging people to move off benefits that we stand any chance of moving them out of a perpetual life of poverty.

but moving them on to in work benefits isn't always the answer...

"

'In work' benefits can have a short term positive affect in that they enable a person to get back into the habit of working and, because the wage is effectively subsidised, makes it easier for an employee to take them on. However, as I said further up, in the long term 'in-work' benefits just further encourage the drive towards a low wage economy which is in no ones best interests.


"

I really don't agree anymore with a state pension for all, there' are many people who have enough personal wealth to live off. we could save billions there, esp on the winter fuel payments. I'd also scrap them, they were just vote winners .........

"

I'd scrap the winter fuel payment, or at least means test it, but I'm not sure I agree with means testing pensions. Pensions are not a wealfare benefit, they are a contributory benefit that people have paid for through their NI contributions. If the government is going to means test them is it also going to give back the value of the contributions to those it decides not to pay?


"

i don't have an answer and neither do the main parties, we need some out of the box thinking here... "

I don't think any of us have all the answers but if we think about it and discuss it enough, with out going down the rout of 'dirty scrounges' or 'rich bastards who don't care' we might eventually figure something out.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"I would rather try anything new and see if it works, if not bin it and try something else, it seems at times this country is very backwards at change.

I read somewhere about a country that pays unemployment benefit as thus

1st 3 months you get 80% of whatever your last salary was.

2nd 3 months you get 50% of salary

3rd 3 months you get 30%

Last 3 months you get 20%.

After that nowt unless you regain employment for at least another 6 months then it stated again.

I think it was capped at the average salary so you could never receive more than that anyhow.

"

I've always thought that system something like that would have some merit. However JSA (Job Seekers Allowance - AKA Dole) is again a contributory benefit not a welfare benefit. And, for most people, the amount of JSA is not relevant because it is made up to meet their actual requirements by other welfare benefits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm a believer in the saying there's a job out there for everybody.

At the end if we're paying people not to work for disability reasons why not create gov jobs that are disability friendly fitting in around treatment and ability, and it would have the benefit of keeping the person in a routine of work and a feeling that there paying there way and not scrounging.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I would rather try anything new and see if it works, if not bin it and try something else, it seems at times this country is very backwards at change.

I read somewhere about a country that pays unemployment benefit as thus

1st 3 months you get 80% of whatever your last salary was.

2nd 3 months you get 50% of salary

3rd 3 months you get 30%

Last 3 months you get 20%.

After that nowt unless you regain employment for at least another 6 months then it stated again.

I think it was capped at the average salary so you could never receive more than that anyhow.

I've always thought that system something like that would have some merit. However JSA (Job Seekers Allowance - AKA Dole) is again a contributory benefit not a welfare benefit. And, for most people, the amount of JSA is not relevant because it is made up to meet their actual requirements by other welfare benefits."

You can have a benefit system like that (or any other figures you choose) but you have to convince people to pay the contributions required to fund it.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I'm a believer in the saying there's a job out there for everybody.

At the end if we're paying people not to work for disability reasons why not create gov jobs that are disability friendly fitting in around treatment and ability, and it would have the benefit of keeping the person in a routine of work and a feeling that there paying there way and not scrounging."

We had that for years. It was called Remploy but the Tories closed/ privatised it.

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


"I'd scrap the winter fuel payment, or at least means test it, but I'm not sure I agree with means testing pensions. Pensions are not a wealfare benefit, they are a contributory benefit that people have paid for through their NI contributions. If the government is going to means test them is it also going to give back the value of the contributions to those it decides not to pay?

"

government paid pension will be phased out over the next 50 years, there will always be a pension credit type system for the foreseeable but after that who knows, I'll be long dead.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

thanks _abio ...... excellent advice , very grateful

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would rather try anything new and see if it works, if not bin it and try something else, it seems at times this country is very backwards at change.

I read somewhere about a country that pays unemployment benefit as thus

1st 3 months you get 80% of whatever your last salary was.

2nd 3 months you get 50% of salary

3rd 3 months you get 30%

Last 3 months you get 20%.

After that nowt unless you regain employment for at least another 6 months then it stated again.

I think it was capped at the average salary so you could never receive more than that anyhow.

"

The current job market can not sustain that sort of system, people would end up starving and homeless.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"I'm a believer in the saying there's a job out there for everybody.

At the end if we're paying people not to work for disability reasons why not create gov jobs that are disability friendly fitting in around treatment and ability, and it would have the benefit of keeping the person in a routine of work and a feeling that there paying there way and not scrounging.

We had that for years. It was called Remploy but the Tories closed/ privatised it."

Did they? So how come Remploy still exists. Here's the link to their web site

www.remploy.co.uk

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I would rather try anything new and see if it works, if not bin it and try something else, it seems at times this country is very backwards at change.

I read somewhere about a country that pays unemployment benefit as thus

1st 3 months you get 80% of whatever your last salary was.

2nd 3 months you get 50% of salary

3rd 3 months you get 30%

Last 3 months you get 20%.

After that nowt unless you regain employment for at least another 6 months then it stated again.

I think it was capped at the average salary so you could never receive more than that anyhow.

The current job market can not sustain that sort of system, people would end up starving and homeless."

People are already starving and homeless.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I would rather try anything new and see if it works, if not bin it and try something else, it seems at times this country is very backwards at change.

I read somewhere about a country that pays unemployment benefit as thus

1st 3 months you get 80% of whatever your last salary was.

2nd 3 months you get 50% of salary

3rd 3 months you get 30%

Last 3 months you get 20%.

After that nowt unless you regain employment for at least another 6 months then it stated again.

I think it was capped at the average salary so you could never receive more than that anyhow.

The current job market can not sustain that sort of system, people would end up starving and homeless.

People are already starving and homeless."

This unfortunately is true.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"I would rather try anything new and see if it works, if not bin it and try something else, it seems at times this country is very backwards at change.

I read somewhere about a country that pays unemployment benefit as thus

1st 3 months you get 80% of whatever your last salary was.

2nd 3 months you get 50% of salary

3rd 3 months you get 30%

Last 3 months you get 20%.

After that nowt unless you regain employment for at least another 6 months then it stated again.

I think it was capped at the average salary so you could never receive more than that anyhow.

The current job market can not sustain that sort of system, people would end up starving and homeless.

People are already starving and homeless.

This unfortunately is true. "

And there always has, and probably always will, be.

The question surely is it worse now than it was 5, 10, 20 or 30 years ago. And if worse why?

It's only in that context that the statement has any real meaning.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 14/12/14 01:57:38]

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"I'm a believer in the saying there's a job out there for everybody.

At the end if we're paying people not to work for disability reasons why not create gov jobs that are disability friendly fitting in around treatment and ability, and it would have the benefit of keeping the person in a routine of work and a feeling that there paying there way and not scrounging.

We had that for years. It was called Remploy but the Tories closed/ privatised it.

Did they? So how come Remploy still exists. Here's the link to their web site

www.remploy.co.uk

"

remploy that still exists is a dwp department that attempts to find disabled people jobs in mainstream work ... an employment agency as it were. the actual factories which employed disabled people in the manufacturing sector is a different story. out of the 83 factories 29 were closed by 2008 as they were deemed inefficient. when the tories came to power they implemented a blanket policy of mandatory closures even though the factories were making a healthy profit that was continuously re-invested into finding mainstream jobs for the less able. there are 5 factories remaining that are ear-marked for closure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not read all of the Thread so forgive me if I duplicate ..

I feel those of us in work should pay taxes to sustain those in need. I am not religious but it seems a 'Christian' thing to do. The many caring for the few seems what many think is right.

What I don't agree to is ANYONE coming here and being given ANYTHING (except emergency health care of course) until they take British Nationality and have contributed. There was a time when I was young that my dole was reduced because I was only 19. I claimed it for a week and vowed never to claim any benefit again and I never did.

For those who DO qualify I am all for capping benefits and especially as a truck driver I earned about £26k a year and people were moaning about having 'their money' reduced TO that. The average wage is £26k so Benefits should be capped at that figure LESS TAX and NI. Like I was and millions of others are. I would cap it even lower. Its wrong a working family only have the kids they can afford but a family where no one works can knock kids out like rabbits and we foot the bill and provide big houses. Utterly WRONG.

Its been shown that if you reduce benefits more people go back to work. We should not keep it as a lifestyle option...

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By *ediceTV/TS
over a year ago

Wrexham


"if you are on JSA, ESA, Incapacity ect... you are likely having your NI Credits covered for you....."

Oh Christ...That'll set 'em off again!

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By *uriousBristolCplCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"I saw this a few days ago in the Mail. Basically propaganda to turn people against those on benefits, like the documentaries on C4 and C5.

Stories like this annoy me, the people who were the subject of the story are the extreme minority if the story is indeed true which I very much doubt. I deal with people who are on benefits on daily basis and 99.99% of them are on the bones of their backside – existing (not living) hand to mouth.

"

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By *uriousBristolCplCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago.

Oh right.

It was in The Sun.

Judging by this thread their agenda clearly worked. Are people really so niave that they miss the clear agenda of a story like this. It's not exactly news is it?"

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

[Removed by poster at 14/12/14 04:03:22]

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"Eh? I haven't read this, where did you see it?

One of the red tops a few days ago.

Oh right.

It was in The Sun.

Judging by this thread their agenda clearly worked. Are people really so niave that they miss the clear agenda of a story like this. It's not exactly news is it?

"

And I think most people do know why these stories are being spread. Don't under estimate the British public.

But 99.99 as may be true, if you want a fair system that people will support, these issues have to addressed and dealt with. Whooshing it under the carpet and saying it's only a small minority isn't going to do that.

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By *uriousBristolCplCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

It's stories like this that vilify people on benefits!!!

It also gives the Tories the opportunity to implement the most draconian welfare reforms this country has ever seen

I can assure you that for 95% of recipients it's far from a 'Lifestyle choice'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 14/12/14 11:59:56]

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge


"It's stories like this that vilify people on benefits!!!

It also gives the Tories the opportunity to implement the most draconian welfare reforms this country has ever seen

I can assure you that for 95% of recipients it's far from a 'Lifestyle choice'

"

And for those 5% for whom it is, we shall crucify the rest and reduce them to pauperism.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"It's stories like this that vilify people on benefits!!!

It also gives the Tories the opportunity to implement the most draconian welfare reforms this country has ever seen

I can assure you that for 95% of recipients it's far from a 'Lifestyle choice'

And for those 5% for whom it is, we shall crucify the rest and reduce them to pauperism."

No, we won't. What we will do is look at the system and change it so that more people who deserve help get the help they need while doing what we can to encourage people who don't deserve benefits, or no longer really require them, to move out of the benefits culture. Doing anything else, including ignoring the problem, however small, would be highly immoral.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ok I'm going to pimp the mrs out now any offers

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"Ok I'm going to pimp the mrs out now any offers "

I'm over 300 miles away from you, Single male and outside your age range.

But, hey, if you can ignore a few things like that I'm sure I can to. LOL

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By *uriousBristolCplCouple
over a year ago

Bristol


" Instead of believing their lies, think for a moment. The media is trying to demonise the weakest in society whilst the rich and powerful fuck us over.

big up to you "

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


" Instead of believing their lies, think for a moment. The media is trying to demonise the weakest in society whilst the rich and powerful fuck us over.

big up to you "

I wonder if you would be so quick to brush it under the carpet if it was tax avoidance, which is basically the same thing but at the other end.

And what is the lie, pointing out abuse of the system is not demonizing any one. What causes the real anger is the belief that some people are getting away with it and no one is doing anything to stop it. Saying it's just a small minority or that it's a made up lie just further increases the belief that nothing will be done to stop the abuse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I wonder if you would be so quick to brush it under the carpet if it was tax avoidance, which is basically the same thing but at the other end.

And what is the lie, pointing out abuse of the system is not demonizing any one. What causes the real anger is the belief that some people are getting away with it and no one is doing anything to stop it. Saying it's just a small minority or that it's a made up lie just further increases the belief that nothing will be done to stop the abuse."

Its what people (mainly from the left) do when someone speaks the unbearable truth. Want to discuss immigration? You are racist. Criticise Israel? You are anti-semitic. Want to reform welfare? You have an agenda to rob the poor. From the above posts people would have us believe there is a 'media plot' but I doubt the Sun or Mail have anything in common with the Mirror or would want to have.

Demonising people is a tactic that worked in the past (and didn't Labour use it well) but I think people are more savvy now. This Coalition has shown that when you reform Welfare even a bit people go back to work. And what better way to fight so called poverty than getting people into work?

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By *y2funMan
over a year ago

DUDLEY


" I wonder if you would be so quick to brush it under the carpet if it was tax avoidance, which is basically the same thing but at the other end."

not sure some fella on JSA doing a days work with his mate for 20 quid cash in hand is the same as Starbucks and Amazon not paying their fair share of taxes....

I'd say the biggest worry at the black market economy would be the amount of stolen goods/drugs/drink/fags involved, not fred helping his mate out one day a week to feed the kids....

I can't demonize anyone on benefits earning a few extra quid... I don't see no real harm in it... but I do think its bang out of order when you get people making 500 quid a week and still claiming that's just greedy ...

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI


" Instead of believing their lies, think for a moment. The media is trying to demonise the weakest in society whilst the rich and powerful fuck us over.

big up to you

I wonder if you would be so quick to brush it under the carpet if it was tax avoidance, which is basically the same thing but at the other end.

And what is the lie, pointing out abuse of the system is not demonizing any one. What causes the real anger is the belief that some people are getting away with it and no one is doing anything to stop it. Saying it's just a small minority or that it's a made up lie just further increases the belief that nothing will be done to stop the abuse."

Pointing out the abuse of the system isn't demonising when it is done relative to it's prevalence.

The language of shirkers and scroungers is not used a handful of times and clearly used to name only a small percentage of claimants - it is used with a broad, dogmatic stroke!

Tax avoidance has not been spoken about in a way that is remotely equitable to benefits and benefit fraud, which you acknowledge "is the same thing at the other end".

Until the discourse is more balanced then people will be deciding for themselves whether it's demonising or not.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"

I wonder if you would be so quick to brush it under the carpet if it was tax avoidance, which is basically the same thing but at the other end.

And what is the lie, pointing out abuse of the system is not demonizing any one. What causes the real anger is the belief that some people are getting away with it and no one is doing anything to stop it. Saying it's just a small minority or that it's a made up lie just further increases the belief that nothing will be done to stop the abuse.

Its what people (mainly from the left) do when someone speaks the unbearable truth. Want to discuss immigration? You are racist. Criticise Israel? You are anti-semitic. Want to reform welfare? You have an agenda to rob the poor. From the above posts people would have us believe there is a 'media plot' but I doubt the Sun or Mail have anything in common with the Mirror or would want to have.

Demonising people is a tactic that worked in the past (and didn't Labour use it well) but I think people are more savvy now. This Coalition has shown that when you reform Welfare even a bit people go back to work. And what better way to fight so called poverty than getting people into work? "

I often feel that some of the posters on here are so hell bent on Tory bashing that they have completely lost the plot. It's almost like it's more important for them to get their sloganized bashing in than actually say anything that is in anyway useful.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI


"

I often feel that some of the posters on here are so hell bent on Tory bashing that they have completely lost the plot. It's almost like it's more important for them to get their sloganized bashing in than actually say anything that is in anyway useful."

Do you mind if I save this and keep it until needed? It'll come in handy the next time champagne socialism is mentioned.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's stories like this that vilify people on benefits!!!

It also gives the Tories the opportunity to implement the most draconian welfare reforms this country has ever seen

I can assure you that for 95% of recipients it's far from a 'Lifestyle choice'

"

95%? Have you done a survey then? Listen whether you like it or not we cannot afford the Welfare System we have now or how it is being used (and abused) and whoever is in power after May will have to face some hard financial decisions. There is already a major reform with Universal credit which is being rolled out and showing huge improvements. Capping welfare was a reform that was supported and worked. Investing in disabled people with targeted assistance is getting more of them into real work than ever before. THEY deserve the pride of work as much as anyone and not to be parked somewhere below the horizon.

Another reality is we need to stop OUR taxes being syphoned off through welfare to foreign countries like Poland by people who have paid in sod all and bring debatable assets to the country. A Polish labourer on less than minimum wage will not pay any taxes so will not cover his wife's Child benefit, his Tax Credit let alone the British Lad's JSA who he has replaced.

Ponder this little fact: 24,000 foreign families claim £30Million a YEAR for 38,500 children living abroad. 4,000 more claim additional Child Tax Credit costing at least £11Million (@ £2750 per child). That is ONE benefit.

Sorry but if you think matters are perfectly fine as they are then I fear you are either in cloud cuckoo land or a Labour voter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Do you mind if I save this and keep it until needed? It'll come in handy the next time champagne socialism is mentioned. "

Please do and the next time Milliband childishly points the finger at so called 'Tory Millionaires' from the Despatch Box ponder this little Gem. He and many of his Front bench are themselves Millionaires!

http://order-order.com/2010/10/11/shadow-cabinet-of-millionaires/

So yes 'Champagne Socialism' is alive and well in Labour circles. And its not the hypocrisy of it all that winds me up its the sneering at us working class people from Millionares like Emily Thornberry ... And they want us to vote for them?

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI


"

Do you mind if I save this and keep it until needed? It'll come in handy the next time champagne socialism is mentioned.

Please do and the next time Milliband childishly points the finger at so called 'Tory Millionaires' from the Despatch Box ponder this little Gem. He and many of his Front bench are themselves Millionaires!

http://order-order.com/2010/10/11/shadow-cabinet-of-millionaires/

So yes 'Champagne Socialism' is alive and well in Labour circles. And its not the hypocrisy of it all that winds me up its the sneering at us working class people from Millionares like Emily Thornberry ... And they want us to vote for them? "

Well I don't and won't be voting for Labour but it seems as though...


"hell bent on Tory bashing that they have completely lost the plot. It's almost like it's more important for them to get their sloganized bashing in than actually say anything that is in anyway useful"

equally applies to those who do it as Labour bashing.

Pot: "Kettle, you're black".

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"

Do you mind if I save this and keep it until needed? It'll come in handy the next time champagne socialism is mentioned.

Please do and the next time Milliband childishly points the finger at so called 'Tory Millionaires' from the Despatch Box ponder this little Gem. He and many of his Front bench are themselves Millionaires!

http://order-order.com/2010/10/11/shadow-cabinet-of-millionaires/

So yes 'Champagne Socialism' is alive and well in Labour circles. And its not the hypocrisy of it all that winds me up its the sneering at us working class people from Millionares like Emily Thornberry ... And they want us to vote for them?

Well I don't and won't be voting for Labour but it seems as though...

hell bent on Tory bashing that they have completely lost the plot. It's almost like it's more important for them to get their sloganized bashing in than actually say anything that is in anyway useful

equally applies to those who do it as Labour bashing.

Pot: "Kettle, you're black". "

I've not done any Labour bashing or any other bashing. I don't believe that sort of politics is useful in forum discussions.

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