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farage again !

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

So what is the difference with the funny face attacks on Miliband?

It's all the same.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? "
I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding."

Excellent post

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like him or not UKIP are certainly gaining ground

I for one believe we need out of the failed experiment known as the EU

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Like him or not UKIP are certainly gaining ground

I for one believe we need out of the failed experiment known as the EU "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree politicians and political opinion is all based on what the public are perceived to want by the media immigration is the issue of the moment and farage has bagged it but all politicians are only out to feather their own nests ,doesn't matter whose ugly face is in the press theirs always someone uglier and more eccentric to take their place

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding."

Flag on the play!!

sorry.... the irony alarms just went off......

you might want to read up on farage and the allergations of his EU expenses........

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk

The OP on a previous thread on UKIP

Just sits, watches and smiles

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Garage is the exact same of politician as the rest. He's just found a convenient band wagon to jump onto.

The Monster Raving Loony Party are about the only radical party, alongside the Greens.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding."

If you think Farage and his mob are any less corrupt or will be any better for this country overall than the big two and the liberal lapdogs then you're far more trusting and optimistic than I.

He's gaining ground on the back of two policies, driven by government and media propaganda, and a general sense of dissatisfaction with the status quo. I doubt most people supporting him are aware of most of the rest of UKIP's policies.

We need a change, certainly, but I don't think Farage is going to be any better.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Garage is the exact same of politician as the rest. He's just found a convenient band wagon to jump onto.

The Monster Raving Loony Party are about the only radical party, alongside the Greens."

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding.

If you think Farage and his mob are any less corrupt or will be any better for this country overall than the big two and the liberal lapdogs then you're far more trusting and optimistic than I.

He's gaining ground on the back of two policies, driven by government and media propaganda, and a general sense of dissatisfaction with the status quo. I doubt most people supporting him are aware of most of the rest of UKIP's policies.

We need a change, certainly, but I don't think Farage is going to be any better."

That must be put into our manifesto, because I've never liked Status Quo either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He's an idiot. He's hindering progress by making stupid statements like women with children were worth less than men.

Plus his stances on certain topics like relaxing gun control are dangerous, and his councillors have some ridiculous views (making all Muslims sign a contract to abstain from terrorism or that homophobia doesn't exist and is merely propaganda).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding.

Flag on the play!!

sorry.... the irony alarms just went off......

you might want to read up on farage and the allergations of his EU expenses........"

Is this what you are referring to?

"Nigel Farage is facing fresh questions over his European expenses after he admitted that an office for which he claimed more than £205,000 from the taxpayer was provided to him free of charge by a Ukip supporter."

and..

"The Times suggested earlier this year that Farage received £15,000 a year from the EU to pay for his constituency office. But since the office, an old grain-store near Lyminster, was rent-free, the true cost of administering the office was close to £3,000 a year – suggesting £12,000 a year was unaccounted for."

Same old politicians?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding."

Do you really believe the three opposing main parties have been colluding in corruption? Any remote evidence to back that up?

UKIP type politics isn't necessarily known for relying on evidence, many would say it's been more akin to scaremongering.

Are you doing the same?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? "
. It could be a crafty way of the Mail helping him ? Think about it ? He doesn't need Tory Votes he needs Labour ! Ps I am a UKIP supporter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would not like to see these guys in power..on the whole Europe is a good thing for us. However I do have a wry smile as the three main parties are now being forced to debate the immigration issue....politicians have being riding roughshod over the vast majority of people's opinions that uncontrolled mass immigration is not a good thing for this country. So if Nigel and his boys can do anything for us is get the big 3 to take some action and listen to our concerns on this issue then that's not a bad thing....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? . It could be a crafty way of the Mail helping him ? Think about it ? He doesn't need Tory Votes he needs Labour ! Ps I am a UKIP supporter "

Do you agree that Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black country too, then? Or that businesses should be allowed to refuse to serve women or homosexuals?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? . It could be a crafty way of the Mail helping him ? Think about it ? He doesn't need Tory Votes he needs Labour ! Ps I am a UKIP supporter

Do you agree that Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black country too, then? Or that businesses should be allowed to refuse to serve women or homosexuals?"

Lenny Henry IS from the Black Country

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? . It could be a crafty way of the Mail helping him ? Think about it ? He doesn't need Tory Votes he needs Labour ! Ps I am a UKIP supporter

Do you agree that Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black country too, then? Or that businesses should be allowed to refuse to serve women or homosexuals?

Lenny Henry IS from the Black Country "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Do you agree that Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black country too, then? Or that businesses should be allowed to refuse to serve women or homosexuals?

Lenny Henry IS from the Black Country "

Touche

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? . It could be a crafty way of the Mail helping him ? Think about it ? He doesn't need Tory Votes he needs Labour ! Ps I am a UKIP supporter

Do you agree that Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black country too, then? Or that businesses should be allowed to refuse to serve women or homosexuals?

Lenny Henry IS from the Black Country "

You're a UKIP supporter too, aren't you? What do you think - would you publicly agree with what has been said by UKIP?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding."

Couldn't agree more,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool.

History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems.

If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed.

Now look how the far right from Greece to Denmark to Spain and Germany is rising.

The eu state is a doomed entity, the fools that run it will never admit it and it will end in massive bloodshed.

So the choice is yours, voting "right wing" ukip in for a few years to get us out peacefully in my mind is a much better solution than what will come if we stay in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool.

History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems.

If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed.

Now look how the far right from Greece to Denmark to Spain and Germany is rising.

The eu state is a doomed entity, the fools that run it will never admit it and it will end in massive bloodshed.

So the choice is yours, voting "right wing" ukip in for a few years to get us out peacefully in my mind is a much better solution than what will come if we stay in."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ukip can't do any worse than the corrupted last two governments we have had so i say vote ukip

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool.

History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems.

If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed.

Now look how the far right from Greece to Denmark to Spain and Germany is rising.

The eu state is a doomed entity, the fools that run it will never admit it and it will end in massive bloodshed.

So the choice is yours, voting "right wing" ukip in for a few years to get us out peacefully in my mind is a much better solution than what will come if we stay in."

I don't understand the bloodshed bit of your post regarding the EU, but I don't think voting UKIP will help anything.

UKIP have sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, racist and archaic policies. If people vote for them, they'll suppress civil libertarianism and remove the rights of individuals. It's a scary thought.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ukip can't do any worse than the corrupted last two governments we have had so i say vote ukip"
..As an ex-para with 25yrs serving my country..I can tell you now,I will be voting UKIP and so will the vast majority of my friend's still serving and ex-army.

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By *S_PennyTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby


"

UKIP have sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, racist and archaic policies. If people vote for them, they'll suppress civil libertarianism and remove the rights of individuals. It's a scary thought. "

Absolutely. A political party that promotes the repatriation of migrant people's is ludicrous in the UK. Where do the propose we start, descendants of the Gauls, Vikings, Romans?

I'm not exactly on their like list either being a bisexual transgender woman.

I just hope we don't sleep walk into a situation that they have significant power. A rag tag bunch of right wing ex Tories. People need to wake up to that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ukip can't do any worse than the corrupted last two governments we have had so i say vote ukip..As an ex-para with 25yrs serving my country..I can tell you now,I will be voting UKIP and so will the vast majority of my friend's still serving and ex-army."

I'm assuming you're the male counterpart of the profile. Why would you vote for a party that doesn't value your female partner as a person - and considers her second rate in comparison to males?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool.

History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems.

If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed.

Now look how the far right from Greece to Denmark to Spain and Germany is rising.

The eu state is a doomed entity, the fools that run it will never admit it and it will end in massive bloodshed.

So the choice is yours, voting "right wing" ukip in for a few years to get us out peacefully in my mind is a much better solution than what will come if we stay in.

I don't understand the bloodshed bit of your post regarding the EU, but I don't think voting UKIP will help anything.

UKIP have sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, racist and archaic policies. If people vote for them, they'll suppress civil libertarianism and remove the rights of individuals. It's a scary thought. "
.

If you don't understand the bloodshed that will come, get any history book out and look at what happens when you push small states into large homogeneous ones.

Civil war, were no where near evolved enough for single government.

Trust me what will come if we don't abandon this ideology of the eu will make ukip look like playschool

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool.

History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems.

If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed.

Now look how the far right from Greece to Denmark to Spain and Germany is rising.

The eu state is a doomed entity, the fools that run it will never admit it and it will end in massive bloodshed.

So the choice is yours, voting "right wing" ukip in for a few years to get us out peacefully in my mind is a much better solution than what will come if we stay in."

Yes, there are examples in history that show pushing together can cause problems, there are also examples that show pulling apart can cause problems. Why not be more balanced in your argument?

The issue here is whether the problems staying in outweigh the problems leaving. That requires a debate on the evidence. Many seem only willing to debate the emotions.

Politics played on emotion is susceptible to scaremongering.

Emotion has a place but big decisions should be reasoned with evidence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ukip can't do any worse than the corrupted last two governments we have had so i say vote ukip..As an ex-para with 25yrs serving my country..I can tell you now,I will be voting UKIP and so will the vast majority of my friend's still serving and ex-army.

I'm assuming you're the male counterpart of the profile. Why would you vote for a party that doesn't value your female partner as a person - and considers her second rate in comparison to males?"
Are you talking about Islam or UKIP.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

[Removed by poster at 22/11/14 13:11:33]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding.

Flag on the play!!

sorry.... the irony alarms just went off......

you might want to read up on farage and the allergations of his EU expenses........"

Oh sssshhhhhg you. Haven't you been paying attention? Multi millionaire tax dodging banker Farage is a man of the people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Are you talking about Islam or UKIP."

Why would you bring Islam into a thread about UKIP. Are you trying to deflect?

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By *S_PennyTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/11/14 13:13:03]

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

Hmmmmmm guns were taken off all licence holders so no more guns on the street.

Gun crime has gone up by 40 %

Go figure

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you don't understand the bloodshed that will come, get any history book out and look at what happens when you push small states into large homogeneous ones.

Civil war, were no where near evolved enough for single government.

Trust me what will come if we don't abandon this ideology of the eu will make ukip look like playschool"

I don't understand it because you haven't given any examples of how it's related to your argument, and it can be argued that the EU controls situations from getting out of hand by implementing sanctions.

I don't know how you can canvass for UKIP when they are so controversial in beliefs and policies and suppress so many groups of people. It's bordering on fascism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ukip can't do any worse than the corrupted last two governments we have had so i say vote ukip..As an ex-para with 25yrs serving my country..I can tell you now,I will be voting UKIP and so will the vast majority of my friend's still serving and ex-army.

I'm assuming you're the male counterpart of the profile. Why would you vote for a party that doesn't value your female partner as a person - and considers her second rate in comparison to males?Are you talking about Islam or UKIP."

I'm talking about UKIP - perhaps you should look into them if you're not familiar with their opinions on females.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding."

Hang on a mo Farage is under investigation re mep expenses he is and has claimed for.

He is dangerous and all he has to talk about is immigration end of.

Think about this lets say as example we close the doors to immigration which is crazy on numerous fronts tben how long before other countries decide same then brits abroad will be deported its so ill tjought out its ridiculous.

Farage by virtue of being mep is taking money from the system he wants to be no part of.

Immigration clearly important but for me a decent living standard is more important.

We are in a global non stop world and to the little england mentality get a grip.

How many who vote ukip use taxis, car washes, take away and doctors and nurses who are in some cases immigrants case of double standards so I hold no truck with ukip folk as in my view are delusional.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool.

History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems.

If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed.

Now look how the far right from Greece to Denmark to Spain and Germany is rising.

The eu state is a doomed entity, the fools that run it will never admit it and it will end in massive bloodshed.

So the choice is yours, voting "right wing" ukip in for a few years to get us out peacefully in my mind is a much better solution than what will come if we stay in."

Hundreds of millions of people in the EU and those in the USA must be deluded fools. You on the other hand think you are right?

Insulting people who do not share your minority opinion is not clever. My observation is that to refer to someone as a deluded fool, is an insult.

I own three businesses in the USA and your references to the US are not correct. The US civil war was a long time ago, whereas our European wars have been relatively recent. As a natural conservative, I should not like the socialist EU set up, but on the whole I believe the the UK should be part of a big European family and my own life experiences are richer for being able to freely live and work in Europe.

Modern America is a great country in which to do business.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Hmmmmmm guns were taken off all licence holders so no more guns on the street.

Gun crime has gone up by 40 %

Go figure"

Gun crime is higher in countries where it's legal to own a gun.

For example, Japan has forbidden guns from being owned in almost all cases and has as few as two gun-related homicides a year as a result.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool.

History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems.

If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed.

Now look how the far right from Greece to Denmark to Spain and Germany is rising.

The eu state is a doomed entity, the fools that run it will never admit it and it will end in massive bloodshed.

So the choice is yours, voting "right wing" ukip in for a few years to get us out peacefully in my mind is a much better solution than what will come if we stay in.

Hundreds of millions of people in the EU and those in the USA must be deluded fools. You on the other hand think you are right?

Insulting people who do not share your minority opinion is not clever. My observation is that to refer to someone as a deluded fool, is an insult.

I own three businesses in the USA and your references to the US are baloney. It is a great country in which to do business."
.

The American civil was fought over the exact same problem Europe is now trying to enforce. A federal state.

A deluded fool is someone who wishes the best and doesn't contemplate the worst.

And you don't even need to look outside Europe , look at the former federal states of the czecholsovakia and Yugoslavia.

It's never worked without massive civil war, where the victor in end puts its vision on to the rest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding.

Hang on a mo Farage is under investigation re mep expenses he is and has claimed for.

He is dangerous and all he has to talk about is immigration end of.

Think about this lets say as example we close the doors to immigration which is crazy on numerous fronts tben how long before other countries decide same then brits abroad will be deported its so ill tjought out its ridiculous.

Farage by virtue of being mep is taking money from the system he wants to be no part of.

Immigration clearly important but for me a decent living standard is more important.

We are in a global non stop world and to the little england mentality get a grip.

How many who vote ukip use taxis, car washes, take away and doctors and nurses who are in some cases immigrants case of double standards so I hold no truck with ukip folk as in my view are delusional."

Don't forget Farage's offshore bank accounts too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. "
.

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"UKIP have sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, racist and archaic policies. If people vote for them, they'll suppress civil libertarianism and remove the rights of individuals. It's a scary thought. "

Actually being a pedant they don't actually have any real policies or even a manifesto of any real depth. But those views are certainly common place and have been voiced frequently by those within the party. The fact that Britain First when realising they were going to be humiliated in Rochester came out in support of UKIP speaks volumes.

But I agree it's scary what they rrepresent and people seem oblivious to it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding."

If you think for one minute that there's no corruption in UKIP I'd like to wager that you'll be bitterly disappointed in the not so distant future, they're all at it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding.

Hang on a mo Farage is under investigation re mep expenses he is and has claimed for.

He is dangerous and all he has to talk about is immigration end of.

Think about this lets say as example we close the doors to immigration which is crazy on numerous fronts tben how long before other countries decide same then brits abroad will be deported its so ill tjought out its ridiculous.

Farage by virtue of being mep is taking money from the system he wants to be no part of.

Immigration clearly important but for me a decent living standard is more important.

We are in a global non stop world and to the little england mentality get a grip.

How many who vote ukip use taxis, car washes, take away and doctors and nurses who are in some cases immigrants case of double standards so I hold no truck with ukip folk as in my view are delusional.

Don't forget Farage's offshore bank accounts too. "
Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

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By *couser83Man
over a year ago

Liverpool

But the media are running scared because they won't have a foothold against ukip if they get into power next year. As long as the media keep trying to run him and his party down the more people will vote. Remember everyone is corrupt including the media

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance"

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I think staying in the EU would be good for the UK but I don't think all the laws and agreements etc necessarily benefit the UK but on balance, it's better from a trade point of view. I think the administration of what the EU does is overly staffed and expensive, to the detriment if all. I remember a few years back the destruction of perfectly edible food just to keep prices high. Umforgivable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding.

If you think for one minute that there's no corruption in UKIP I'd like to wager that you'll be bitterly disappointed in the not so distant future, they're all at it."
.

Forget about corruption, there all it. Give them power get out of the eu vote them out.

The EU will fail and the euro will fail with catastrophic consequences when it does.

Get out now while you can.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? . It could be a crafty way of the Mail helping him ? Think about it ? He doesn't need Tory Votes he needs Labour ! Ps I am a UKIP supporter

Do you agree that Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black country too, then? Or that businesses should be allowed to refuse to serve women or homosexuals?"
. No I don't think any of the 3 ! Why on earth would I ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm happily a deluded fool after reading this. Someone bring back the strand on being nice to single men.

The US has existed as a single monetary and federal entity reasonably well since 1865, and unless something has happened this morning is still the world's leading superpower. I'm sure lots of people hate it for that, but can't say that a civil war on the face of it to eliminate slavery caused all its faults.

Similarly, despite all its troubles and the things we don't like about it, the EU has been at the heart of a period of European peace since the end of the second world war. That's more than 60 years without the Germans, British, Italians, Spanish etc slaughtering one another.

And as for becoming right wing to avoid that, you are joking aren't you?

Where's my tin hat?

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By *S_PennyTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance"

No the EU makes law that then passes through either our government or judiciary for approval. Different countries can implement the ethos of those laws or not in different ways. Sure it can lead to fines in some cases from the EU but these are where it has been deemed at a European level for the greater good. That's exactly why we have representation at MEP level.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding.

Hang on a mo Farage is under investigation re mep expenses he is and has claimed for.

He is dangerous and all he has to talk about is immigration end of.

Think about this lets say as example we close the doors to immigration which is crazy on numerous fronts tben how long before other countries decide same then brits abroad will be deported its so ill tjought out its ridiculous.

Farage by virtue of being mep is taking money from the system he wants to be no part of.

Immigration clearly important but for me a decent living standard is more important.

We are in a global non stop world and to the little england mentality get a grip.

How many who vote ukip use taxis, car washes, take away and doctors and nurses who are in some cases immigrants case of double standards so I hold no truck with ukip folk as in my view are delusional.

Don't forget Farage's offshore bank accounts too. Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare."

Does that actually matter?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At the moment - I'm edging towards "none of the above"

UKIP seem to be eurosceptic, right wing Tories... I look forward to seeing them publish a manifesto so I can revise my opinion.

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By *couser83Man
over a year ago

Liverpool


"I think staying in the EU would be good for the UK but I don't think all the laws and agreements etc necessarily benefit the UK but on balance, it's better from a trade point of view. I think the administration of what the EU does is overly staffed and expensive, to the detriment if all. I remember a few years back the destruction of perfectly edible food just to keep prices high. Umforgivable. "

But we can quite happily trade with other countries without being in the eu. We've done it before and we'll do it again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? . It could be a crafty way of the Mail helping him ? Think about it ? He doesn't need Tory Votes he needs Labour ! Ps I am a UKIP supporter

Do you agree that Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black country too, then? Or that businesses should be allowed to refuse to serve women or homosexuals?. No I don't think any of the 3 ! Why on earth would I ? "

They're all UKIP statements. If you're voting UKIP, then you're supporting those beliefs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare."

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies.

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By *couser83Man
over a year ago

Liverpool


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? . It could be a crafty way of the Mail helping him ? Think about it ? He doesn't need Tory Votes he needs Labour ! Ps I am a UKIP supporter

Do you agree that Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black country too, then? Or that businesses should be allowed to refuse to serve women or homosexuals?. No I don't think any of the 3 ! Why on earth would I ?

They're all UKIP statements. If you're voting UKIP, then you're supporting those beliefs. "

They are not ukip statements they are statements made by ex members of ukip. Remember those people got booted out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the three main party's are sitting under a hornet's nest of corruption that has been going on for year's..Farage is kicking that nest..and i hope one day soon we see what these crook's have been hiding.

Do you really believe the three opposing main parties have been colluding in corruption? Any remote evidence to back that up?

UKIP type politics isn't necessarily known for relying on evidence, many would say it's been more akin to scaremongering.

Are you doing the same? "

A simple question ignored.

Alas, this has been my experience of UKIP and it's supporters. Make an outlandish statement to appeal to emotion. When asked simple but direct questions on evidence to back up their statements, go quiet, deflect or change the subject.

Most people are going to eventually want evidence. That will be UKIP's downfall in my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance

No the EU makes law that then passes through either our government or judiciary for approval. Different countries can implement the ethos of those laws or not in different ways. Sure it can lead to fines in some cases from the EU but these are where it has been deemed at a European level for the greater good. That's exactly why we have representation at MEP level.

"
.

A 3% representation!

EU courts are the highest body

Never in history has it been proven you can amalgamate small states into large federal states without bloody conflict.

Were not evolved enough, it will end in disaster as history constantly proves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? . It could be a crafty way of the Mail helping him ? Think about it ? He doesn't need Tory Votes he needs Labour ! Ps I am a UKIP supporter

Do you agree that Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black country too, then? Or that businesses should be allowed to refuse to serve women or homosexuals?. No I don't think any of the 3 ! Why on earth would I ?

They're all UKIP statements. If you're voting UKIP, then you're supporting those beliefs. "
. That's Rubidh and Offensive ! It's as bad as sayinging all Muslims are Terrorists ! And we all know they are Not !

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? . It could be a crafty way of the Mail helping him ? Think about it ? He doesn't need Tory Votes he needs Labour ! Ps I am a UKIP supporter

Do you agree that Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black country too, then? Or that businesses should be allowed to refuse to serve women or homosexuals?"

I thought he came from the "black country"

As for the rest complete nonsense. The uttering s of a handfull of crackpots out of a few million supporters.

Using that criteria I could make the Labour party conference look like the Nuremburg rally's

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By *S_PennyTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance

No the EU makes law that then passes through either our government or judiciary for approval. Different countries can implement the ethos of those laws or not in different ways. Sure it can lead to fines in some cases from the EU but these are where it has been deemed at a European level for the greater good. That's exactly why we have representation at MEP level.

.

A 3% representation!

EU courts are the highest body

Never in history has it been proven you can amalgamate small states into large federal states without bloody conflict.

Were not evolved enough, it will end in disaster as history constantly proves."

Utter crap. The USA is a prime example. Sure they had a civil war. But a very long time ago. And it has been running pretty well since I'd say.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"UKIP have sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, racist and archaic policies. If people vote for them, they'll suppress civil libertarianism and remove the rights of individuals. It's a scary thought.

Actually being a pedant they don't actually have any real policies or even a manifesto of any real depth. But those views are certainly common place and have been voiced frequently by those within the party. The fact that Britain First when realising they were going to be humiliated in Rochester came out in support of UKIP speaks volumes.

But I agree it's scary what they rrepresent and people seem oblivious to it"

The rise in UKIP support is not surprising if you take a broad overview of society and the way that it has evolved.

With life in general, people want instant gratification and are no longer prepared to invest time and money for a long term solution. As our education standards have fallen so a larger and larger slice of the population are simply incapable or unwilling to consider very serious issues and would rather have a quick fix. It stands to reason then, that politicians who promote quick fix solutions will get a willing audience and anyone who offers seemingly simple solutions to complex issues will always get heard above those who want to fix the problem, rather than address the symptom.

It actually works on all sides of the political argument and we can see from recent NHS funding debates how it would be "simply" addressed:

Labour - tax the very, very rich with a mansion tax

SNP - get rid of Trident

UKIP - stop HS2

These are sound byte policies that do not address the issue of NHS funding, they just address a short term solution.

UKIP understand what has happened to society and as was stated in the Huff last year they appear to appeal to simple people who just want a simple solution and not have to think about much.

UKIP policies -

Saving money - quit Europe and stop HS2

Dealing with unemployment - stop immigration from the EU

Dealing with the defecit (spending on NHS, welfare and education) - stop EU immigration.

These policies do not address the issues at all and just offer an apparent simple solution to what are complex issues. UKIP know however that appealing to those who want simple (but wrong) solutions will give them the popular vote.

Ask any UKIP supporter about saving the NHS and ask them if they would rather work out the reasons for the funding gap in the NHS or just stop immigrants from using it - what do you think they would say?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies. "
Let me assure you..UKIP will not be bombing innocent children and women in their own homeland's..we are not that racist.

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By *couser83Man
over a year ago

Liverpool


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance

No the EU makes law that then passes through either our government or judiciary for approval. Different countries can implement the ethos of those laws or not in different ways. Sure it can lead to fines in some cases from the EU but these are where it has been deemed at a European level for the greater good. That's exactly why we have representation at MEP level.

.

A 3% representation!

EU courts are the highest body

Never in history has it been proven you can amalgamate small states into large federal states without bloody conflict.

Were not evolved enough, it will end in disaster as history constantly proves.

Utter crap. The USA is a prime example. Sure they had a civil war. But a very long time ago. And it has been running pretty well since I'd say.

"

But it involved a civil war

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.


"So what is the difference with the funny face attacks on Miliband?

It's all the same."

Farage pulls funny faces... Milliband was born with a funny face....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance

No the EU makes law that then passes through either our government or judiciary for approval. Different countries can implement the ethos of those laws or not in different ways. Sure it can lead to fines in some cases from the EU but these are where it has been deemed at a European level for the greater good. That's exactly why we have representation at MEP level.

.

A 3% representation!

EU courts are the highest body

Never in history has it been proven you can amalgamate small states into large federal states without bloody conflict.

Were not evolved enough, it will end in disaster as history constantly proves.

Utter crap. The USA is a prime example. Sure they had a civil war. But a very long time ago. And it has been running pretty well since I'd say.

But it involved a civil war "

Was that the one where several states seceded from the union so they could keep slavery?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

They're all UKIP statements. If you're voting UKIP, then you're supporting those beliefs.

They are not ukip statements they are statements made by ex members of ukip. Remember those people got booted out"

Mark Reckless hasn't been booted out. Is it ok for UKIP MPs to say what he said because he was tired?

Not a million miles away from the Lenny Henry comments.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies. Let me assure you..UKIP will not be bombing innocent children and women in their own homeland's..we are not that racist."

How racist is it OK to be?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool.

History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems.

If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed.

Now look how the far right from Greece to Denmark to Spain and Germany is rising.

The eu state is a doomed entity, the fools that run it will never admit it and it will end in massive bloodshed.

So the choice is yours, voting "right wing" ukip in for a few years to get us out peacefully in my mind is a much better solution than what will come if we stay in.

Hundreds of millions of people in the EU and those in the USA must be deluded fools. You on the other hand think you are right?

Insulting people who do not share your minority opinion is not clever. My observation is that to refer to someone as a deluded fool, is an insult.

I own three businesses in the USA and your references to the US are baloney. It is a great country in which to do business..

The American civil was fought over the exact same problem Europe is now trying to enforce. A federal state.

A deluded fool is someone who wishes the best and doesn't contemplate the worst.

And you don't even need to look outside Europe , look at the former federal states of the czecholsovakia and Yugoslavia.

It's never worked without massive civil war, where the victor in end puts its vision on to the rest.

"

Re the American civil war. It was actually fought over differing opinions to the abolishment of slavery. Yes you can argument federal government was trying to enforce a law but I'd personally say that the abolishment of slavery was a very good federal law to implement. I'm just not buying your argument when comparing the US Civil War to the present day EU, completely different times and subject matter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance

No the EU makes law that then passes through either our government or judiciary for approval. Different countries can implement the ethos of those laws or not in different ways. Sure it can lead to fines in some cases from the EU but these are where it has been deemed at a European level for the greater good. That's exactly why we have representation at MEP level.

.

A 3% representation!

EU courts are the highest body

Never in history has it been proven you can amalgamate small states into large federal states without bloody conflict.

Were not evolved enough, it will end in disaster as history constantly proves.

Utter crap. The USA is a prime example. Sure they had a civil war. But a very long time ago. And it has been running pretty well since I'd say.

But it involved a civil war "
.

He's no a deluded fool, he's a deluded fantasist .

Even our own current union was fought in the middle of a civil war.

He seems to think it will be great for business in a hundred years like the US civil war was.

Terrific

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? . It could be a crafty way of the Mail helping him ? Think about it ? He doesn't need Tory Votes he needs Labour ! Ps I am a UKIP supporter

Do you agree that Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black country too, then? Or that businesses should be allowed to refuse to serve women or homosexuals?. No I don't think any of the 3 ! Why on earth would I ?

They're all UKIP statements. If you're voting UKIP, then you're supporting those beliefs.

They are not ukip statements they are statements made by ex members of ukip. Remember those people got booted out"

Roger Helmer is still associated with UKIP. So is Paul Nuttall. And so is Farage, obviously.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance

No the EU makes law that then passes through either our government or judiciary for approval. Different countries can implement the ethos of those laws or not in different ways. Sure it can lead to fines in some cases from the EU but these are where it has been deemed at a European level for the greater good. That's exactly why we have representation at MEP level.

.

A 3% representation!

EU courts are the highest body

Never in history has it been proven you can amalgamate small states into large federal states without bloody conflict.

Were not evolved enough, it will end in disaster as history constantly proves.

Utter crap. The USA is a prime example. Sure they had a civil war. But a very long time ago. And it has been running pretty well since I'd say.

But it involved a civil war

Was that the one where several states seceded from the union so they could keep slavery? "
. Do you Really believe that was what the American Civil War was really about ?

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By *S_PennyTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance

No the EU makes law that then passes through either our government or judiciary for approval. Different countries can implement the ethos of those laws or not in different ways. Sure it can lead to fines in some cases from the EU but these are where it has been deemed at a European level for the greater good. That's exactly why we have representation at MEP level.

.

A 3% representation!

EU courts are the highest body

Never in history has it been proven you can amalgamate small states into large federal states without bloody conflict.

Were not evolved enough, it will end in disaster as history constantly proves.

Utter crap. The USA is a prime example. Sure they had a civil war. But a very long time ago. And it has been running pretty well since I'd say.

But it involved a civil war

Was that the one where several states seceded from the union so they could keep slavery? "

Ok take the view. But eventually the overriding constitution took hold and slavery was stopped.

Sure there are always going to be pressure points and differences in opinion. That's actually quite healthy. It means that the general population can vote for those it wants to see in power and hopefully the extremist views are reduced.

Unfortunately we have a media that is happy to sensationalise and stir up bad feeling amongst it's people's and encourage extremist views. I just hope common sense will prevail.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ken Livingstone is still advocated with Labour ! As is Tebbit the Tories !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies. Let me assure you..UKIP will not be bombing innocent children and women in their own homeland's..we are not that racist."

Riiiight, just as long as women, homosexuals, immigrants and non-whites have their rights suppressed, yeah?

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By *couser83Man
over a year ago

Liverpool

Can I just point something out, if he was a racist would he be married to a German women?

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk

Sits, watches and smiles

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By *couser83Man
over a year ago

Liverpool

Well that shut them up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can I just point something out, if he was a racist would he be married to a German women? "

Yes - it doesn't mean he doesn't consider other races inferior. You're ignoring he also believes females are below him.

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By *S_PennyTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby


"Can I just point something out, if he was a racist would he be married to a German women? "

But equally with a name like Farage. According to their migrant repatriation policies does that mean he will get deported to France?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies. Let me assure you..UKIP will not be bombing innocent children and women in their own homeland's..we are not that racist.

Riiiight, just as long as women, homosexuals, immigrants and non-whites have their rights suppressed, yeah? "
No that's Islam doing that..not UKIP.

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

The American civil war was actually fought so that America could truthfully say they had won a war. It didn't matter who won, as it would still be America....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies. Let me assure you..UKIP will not be bombing innocent children and women in their own homeland's..we are not that racist.

Riiiight, just as long as women, homosexuals, immigrants and non-whites have their rights suppressed, yeah? No that's Islam doing that..not UKIP."

It's UKIP.

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By *couser83Man
over a year ago

Liverpool


"Can I just point something out, if he was a racist would he be married to a German women?

Yes - it doesn't mean he doesn't consider other races inferior. You're ignoring he also believes females are below him. "
it's actually nice to have a grown up chat about things. What's surprising thought is its on a forum on a swingers site

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By *couser83Man
over a year ago

Liverpool


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies. Let me assure you..UKIP will not be bombing innocent children and women in their own homeland's..we are not that racist.

Riiiight, just as long as women, homosexuals, immigrants and non-whites have their rights suppressed, yeah? No that's Islam doing that..not UKIP."

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk


"The American civil war was actually fought so that America could truthfully say they had won a war. It didn't matter who won, as it would still be America.... "

That's the best post in the history of best posts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool.

History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems.

If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed.

Now look how the far right from Greece to Denmark to Spain and Germany is rising.

The eu state is a doomed entity, the fools that run it will never admit it and it will end in massive bloodshed.

So the choice is yours, voting "right wing" ukip in for a few years to get us out peacefully in my mind is a much better solution than what will come if we stay in.

Hundreds of millions of people in the EU and those in the USA must be deluded fools. You on the other hand think you are right?

Insulting people who do not share your minority opinion is not clever. My observation is that to refer to someone as a deluded fool, is an insult.

I own three businesses in the USA and your references to the US are baloney. It is a great country in which to do business..

The American civil was fought over the exact same problem Europe is now trying to enforce. A federal state.

A deluded fool is someone who wishes the best and doesn't contemplate the worst.

And you don't even need to look outside Europe , look at the former federal states of the czecholsovakia and Yugoslavia.

It's never worked without massive civil war, where the victor in end puts its vision on to the rest.

Re the American civil war. It was actually fought over differing opinions to the abolishment of slavery. Yes you can argument federal government was trying to enforce a law but I'd personally say that the abolishment of slavery was a very good federal law to implement. I'm just not buying your argument when comparing the US Civil War to the present day EU, completely different times and subject matter."
.

That's the whole point people from different states hold different values and different culture.

Forget about the rights and wrongs of slavery. It's the differences that make it impossible to federalise without civil war.

Six states held fundamentally different views than seven other states. Solution civil war

Nationalism ideology doesn't end with the creation of superstates, never has done just look at the US or the former ussr, all it does is move your bigotry onto the next enemy.

Individuals will always be less nationalistic than states and superstates are more nationalistic than states.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"Can I just point something out, if he was a racist would he be married to a German women? "

A white German woman. Of course he can still be racist! And xenophobic, too.

People have a great ability to be hypocrites. Hence, he actually employs his German wife instead of letting a British person have the job!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool.

History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems.

If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed.

Now look how the far right from Greece to Denmark to Spain and Germany is rising.

The eu state is a doomed entity, the fools that run it will never admit it and it will end in massive bloodshed.

So the choice is yours, voting "right wing" ukip in for a few years to get us out peacefully in my mind is a much better solution than what will come if we stay in.

Hundreds of millions of people in the EU and those in the USA must be deluded fools. You on the other hand think you are right?

Insulting people who do not share your minority opinion is not clever. My observation is that to refer to someone as a deluded fool, is an insult.

I own three businesses in the USA and your references to the US are baloney. It is a great country in which to do business..

The American civil was fought over the exact same problem Europe is now trying to enforce. A federal state.

A deluded fool is someone who wishes the best and doesn't contemplate the worst.

And you don't even need to look outside Europe , look at the former federal states of the czecholsovakia and Yugoslavia.

It's never worked without massive civil war, where the victor in end puts its vision on to the rest.

Re the American civil war. It was actually fought over differing opinions to the abolishment of slavery. Yes you can argument federal government was trying to enforce a law but I'd personally say that the abolishment of slavery was a very good federal law to implement. I'm just not buying your argument when comparing the US Civil War to the present day EU, completely different times and subject matter..

That's the whole point people from different states hold different values and different culture.

Forget about the rights and wrongs of slavery. It's the differences that make it impossible to federalise without civil war.

Six states held fundamentally different views than seven other states. Solution civil war

Nationalism ideology doesn't end with the creation of superstates, never has done just look at the US or the former ussr, all it does is move your bigotry onto the next enemy.

Individuals will always be less nationalistic than states and superstates are more nationalistic than states."

How is this an argument to vote UKIP? Surely all you want is an EU referendum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance

No the EU makes law that then passes through either our government or judiciary for approval. Different countries can implement the ethos of those laws or not in different ways. Sure it can lead to fines in some cases from the EU but these are where it has been deemed at a European level for the greater good. That's exactly why we have representation at MEP level.

.

A 3% representation!

EU courts are the highest body

Never in history has it been proven you can amalgamate small states into large federal states without bloody conflict.

Were not evolved enough, it will end in disaster as history constantly proves.

Utter crap. The USA is a prime example. Sure they had a civil war. But a very long time ago. And it has been running pretty well since I'd say.

But it involved a civil war

Was that the one where several states seceded from the union so they could keep slavery? . Do you Really believe that was what the American Civil War was really about ? "

Yes I do, along with a number of other factors as with any war. Incidentally have a look at the confederacy's constitution - you'll find that it isn't trying to break up into individual states but set sup a separate federal government: "We, the people of the Confederate States, each state acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity — invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God — do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America."

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By *couser83Man
over a year ago

Liverpool


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance

No the EU makes law that then passes through either our government or judiciary for approval. Different countries can implement the ethos of those laws or not in different ways. Sure it can lead to fines in some cases from the EU but these are where it has been deemed at a European level for the greater good. That's exactly why we have representation at MEP level.

.

A 3% representation!

EU courts are the highest body

Never in history has it been proven you can amalgamate small states into large federal states without bloody conflict.

Were not evolved enough, it will end in disaster as history constantly proves.

Utter crap. The USA is a prime example. Sure they had a civil war. But a very long time ago. And it has been running pretty well since I'd say.

But it involved a civil war

Was that the one where several states seceded from the union so they could keep slavery? . Do you Really believe that was what the American Civil War was really about ?

Yes I do, along with a number of other factors as with any war. Incidentally have a look at the confederacy's constitution - you'll find that it isn't trying to break up into individual states but set sup a separate federal government: "We, the people of the Confederate States, each state acting in its sovereign and independent character, in order to form a permanent federal government, establish justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity — invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God — do ordain and establish this Constitution for the Confederate States of America."

"
The point I was trying to make was that it took a civil war for America to be what it is today but to say it doesn't matter because it happened a long time ago doesn't quash with me. It still happened and people died

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

Dont think so.

In Switzerland where nearly evryone has a gun. There is next to no gun crime.

Loads of suicides but next to no gun crime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies. Let me assure you..UKIP will not be bombing innocent children and women in their own homeland's..we are not that racist.

Riiiight, just as long as women, homosexuals, immigrants and non-whites have their rights suppressed, yeah? "
. Well yes I don't agree with Saudi Arabia either !

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago


"Dont think so.

In Switzerland where nearly evryone has a gun. There is next to no gun crime.

Loads of suicides but next to no gun crime."

the swiss are allowed to keep their service gun at home but they're not allowed to keep ammunition anymore .... that's because in the 90's there was a monumental escalation of shooting incidents and gun crime

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By *T_LEECouple (MM)
over a year ago

near you

[Removed by poster at 22/11/14 14:08:55]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Dont think so.

In Switzerland where nearly evryone has a gun. There is next to no gun crime.

Loads of suicides but next to no gun crime."

Also legal in Honduras, but it's not helping them out, is it?

Gun crime is statistically lower in countries with strict gun control.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies. Let me assure you..UKIP will not be bombing innocent children and women in their own homeland's..we are not that racist.

Riiiight, just as long as women, homosexuals, immigrants and non-whites have their rights suppressed, yeah? . Well yes I don't agree with Saudi Arabia either !"

If you don't agree with limiting the rights of others, you shouldn't vote UKIP.

To put it bluntly, if you do, you are outright saying you do not value the contributions of females and homosexuals to society.

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

i like Uncle Nigel and I would vote for him but he hasnt got his act together on the policy basis.

For the vast majority of people who vote for him it is a protest vote.

The white working and middle class seem to be getting squeezed from all direction and sneered at and we cant say what we feel for being called racist or a bigot.

If you unsure of this ask the kids in Heywood or Rochester.

Cant report them for fear of being called racist

But it is us that foo the bill for most of the country.

I dont want to be part of Europe and being told what to do by someone in Europe I didnt vote for.

We are a world economy and we need to get over it.

If we kicked all the foreign workers out of the UK why shouldnt those countries kick us out of theirs.

It is all going to end in serious trouble.

viva la revolution

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By *couser83Man
over a year ago

Liverpool


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies. Let me assure you..UKIP will not be bombing innocent children and women in their own homeland's..we are not that racist.

Riiiight, just as long as women, homosexuals, immigrants and non-whites have their rights suppressed, yeah? . Well yes I don't agree with Saudi Arabia either !

If you don't agree with limiting the rights of others, you shouldn't vote UKIP.

To put it bluntly, if you do, you are outright saying you do not value the contributions of females and homosexuals to society. "
more scare mongering by the papers. Am sure I've seen him on here classing himself as bi

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool.

History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems.

If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed.

Now look how the far right from Greece to Denmark to Spain and Germany is rising.

The eu state is a doomed entity, the fools that run it will never admit it and it will end in massive bloodshed.

So the choice is yours, voting "right wing" ukip in for a few years to get us out peacefully in my mind is a much better solution than what will come if we stay in.

Hundreds of millions of people in the EU and those in the USA must be deluded fools. You on the other hand think you are right?

Insulting people who do not share your minority opinion is not clever. My observation is that to refer to someone as a deluded fool, is an insult.

I own three businesses in the USA and your references to the US are baloney. It is a great country in which to do business..

The American civil was fought over the exact same problem Europe is now trying to enforce. A federal state.

A deluded fool is someone who wishes the best and doesn't contemplate the worst.

And you don't even need to look outside Europe , look at the former federal states of the czecholsovakia and Yugoslavia.

It's never worked without massive civil war, where the victor in end puts its vision on to the rest.

Re the American civil war. It was actually fought over differing opinions to the abolishment of slavery. Yes you can argument federal government was trying to enforce a law but I'd personally say that the abolishment of slavery was a very good federal law to implement. I'm just not buying your argument when comparing the US Civil War to the present day EU, completely different times and subject matter..

That's the whole point people from different states hold different values and different culture.

Forget about the rights and wrongs of slavery. It's the differences that make it impossible to federalise without civil war.

Six states held fundamentally different views than seven other states. Solution civil war

Nationalism ideology doesn't end with the creation of superstates, never has done just look at the US or the former ussr, all it does is move your bigotry onto the next enemy.

Individuals will always be less nationalistic than states and superstates are more nationalistic than states.

How is this an argument to vote UKIP? Surely all you want is an EU referendum. "
.

They will never give you one, and if they did they would just ramp up the fear till you all vote yes just like the Scottish one.

The far right has been gaining ground all over Europe for 20 years thanks to the EU.

Sometimes in my opinion you need to vote in a slightly right wing party to avoid the worse off the right wing.

I think the EU will fail but more importantly history says it will fail.

I say the euro will fail unless you can massively change the culture of 100 million southern Europeans to match the north... Sound familiar.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool.

History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems.

If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed.

Now look how the far right from Greece to Denmark to Spain and Germany is rising.

The eu state is a doomed entity, the fools that run it will never admit it and it will end in massive bloodshed.

So the choice is yours, voting "right wing" ukip in for a few years to get us out peacefully in my mind is a much better solution than what will come if we stay in.

Hundreds of millions of people in the EU and those in the USA must be deluded fools. You on the other hand think you are right?

Insulting people who do not share your minority opinion is not clever. My observation is that to refer to someone as a deluded fool, is an insult.

I own three businesses in the USA and your references to the US are not correct. The US civil war was a long time ago, whereas our European wars have been relatively recent. As a natural conservative, I should not like the socialist EU set up, but on the whole I believe the the UK should be part of a big European family and my own life experiences are richer for being able to freely live and work in Europe.

Modern America is a great country in which to do business."

Modern America is a great country but a very different one to any European country and certainly very different to any EU super state.

Firstly (native Americans apart) the whole country are either immigrants or descendent's of immigrants. They have grown together over centuries (with more than a few hiccups on the way) and while a Texas cowboy is very different from a New York banker, or a Boston Lawyer isn't the same as a California wine grower, they were all born Americans. They share a common history, language, a common currency that has evolved over years, and while there are some differences a common modern culture.

Europe is completely different. Twenty eight countries that have grown separately for centuries. Some with civilisations and culture that goes back to the dawn of history, others that have only been in existence for a decade or two. The current EU has more than 40 different languages and economies as diverse as the industrial power house of Germany to the almost peasant economy's of some of the former Soviet bloc country's now being forced into a common currency that most don't want and is causing an economic and social catastrophe across vast swathes of the continent.

The EU is doomed to failure. The only question is when the collapse will come.

Remember this. It took the Americans 85 years to go from independence to civil war, the EU is about 60 years old.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The point I was trying to make was that it took a civil war for America to be what it is today but to say it doesn't matter because it happened a long time ago doesn't quash with me. It still happened and people died"

This started off as being about what history proves. Some one (not you) way up this strand had posted:

"History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems. If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed"

I would say that history proves that the civil war was caused by states seceding from the federation to set up a rival federal state the Confederacy. Also in the hundred years (150 years?) since then, the US has been a leading country in the world, whether or not we like it.

Sometimes people say history proves something without looking at what history proved, don't they?

Few people like civil war and bloodshed, but how many would be against the abolition of slavery in the US? The civil war returned the country to the status quo.

Cue the comedian with the status quo joke...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance"

Do not forget our judges sit on the eurpean courts and are involved in law making folk are delusional to point of being dangerous by this way of thinking that we are out of the loop.

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By *T_LEECouple (MM)
over a year ago

near you


"I think staying in the EU would be good for the UK but I don't think all the laws and agreements etc necessarily benefit the UK but on balance, it's better from a trade point of view. I think the administration of what the EU does is overly staffed and expensive, to the detriment if all. I remember a few years back the destruction of perfectly edible food just to keep prices high. Umforgivable. "

Unfortunately all the laws and regulations come as part of the package. If we pull out of Europe this will not effect our trade as they need our money as much as we need theres. Think pf all those audi bmw vw Peugeot s on the road. Do you really believe they would stop trading or impose high sanctions.

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

Keep guessing

It isnt.

I dont think anyone should have a gun.

All guns should be kept in a number of locations and if you want to shoot as a hobby you can go and collect and blast your way on a range till your hearts content.

Criminals find ways of finding guns.

Gun crime is going up at an alarming rate.

Why do you think the Police now carry more weapons now than when nearly anyone could carry a gun.

The Iraqi and Libayan forces have over two million weapons missing.

Hmmmmm wonder where those have gone.

Maybe farmer palmer ha bought an AK47 to scare the birds.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They will never give you one, and if they did they would just ramp up the fear till you all vote yes just like the Scottish one.

The far right has been gaining ground all over Europe for 20 years thanks to the EU.

Sometimes in my opinion you need to vote in a slightly right wing party to avoid the worse off the right wing.

I think the EU will fail but more importantly history says it will fail.

I say the euro will fail unless you can massively change the culture of 100 million southern Europeans to match the north... Sound familiar."

So you're recommending we vote UKIP, a right wing group, to evade being right wing - despite the effect it'll have on our society?

How does this help anything? I can only see my rights as a female being hindered and multiculturalism dying out.

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By *couser83Man
over a year ago

Liverpool


"They will never give you one, and if they did they would just ramp up the fear till you all vote yes just like the Scottish one.

The far right has been gaining ground all over Europe for 20 years thanks to the EU.

Sometimes in my opinion you need to vote in a slightly right wing party to avoid the worse off the right wing.

I think the EU will fail but more importantly history says it will fail.

I say the euro will fail unless you can massively change the culture of 100 million southern Europeans to match the north... Sound familiar.

So you're recommending we vote UKIP, a right wing group, to evade being right wing - despite the effect it'll have on our society?

How does this help anything? I can only see my rights as a female being hindered and multiculturalism dying out. "
a famous quote I learnt from school *those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.* women's rights will not be hindered, it's just the media trying to scare everyone

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Keep guessing

It isnt.

I dont think anyone should have a gun.

All guns should be kept in a number of locations and if you want to shoot as a hobby you can go and collect and blast your way on a range till your hearts content.

Criminals find ways of finding guns.

Gun crime is going up at an alarming rate.

Why do you think the Police now carry more weapons now than when nearly anyone could carry a gun.

The Iraqi and Libayan forces have over two million weapons missing.

Hmmmmm wonder where those have gone.

Maybe farmer palmer ha bought an AK47 to scare the birds.

"

I don't understand what this means at all. It's kind of secondary anyway, I brought it up as it's stupid for Farage to prioritise and address gun control when there are much bigger concerns.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They will never give you one, and if they did they would just ramp up the fear till you all vote yes just like the Scottish one.

The far right has been gaining ground all over Europe for 20 years thanks to the EU.

Sometimes in my opinion you need to vote in a slightly right wing party to avoid the worse off the right wing.

I think the EU will fail but more importantly history says it will fail.

I say the euro will fail unless you can massively change the culture of 100 million southern Europeans to match the north... Sound familiar.

So you're recommending we vote UKIP, a right wing group, to evade being right wing - despite the effect it'll have on our society?

How does this help anything? I can only see my rights as a female being hindered and multiculturalism dying out. a famous quote I learnt from school *those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.* women's rights will not be hindered, it's just the media trying to scare everyone "

In that case, why has Farage made so many anti-female statements? It's not the media - it's Farage and UKIP's beliefs. You shouldn't dismiss it as it affects 51% of the UK.

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By *couser83Man
over a year ago

Liverpool


"They will never give you one, and if they did they would just ramp up the fear till you all vote yes just like the Scottish one.

The far right has been gaining ground all over Europe for 20 years thanks to the EU.

Sometimes in my opinion you need to vote in a slightly right wing party to avoid the worse off the right wing.

I think the EU will fail but more importantly history says it will fail.

I say the euro will fail unless you can massively change the culture of 100 million southern Europeans to match the north... Sound familiar.

So you're recommending we vote UKIP, a right wing group, to evade being right wing - despite the effect it'll have on our society?

How does this help anything? I can only see my rights as a female being hindered and multiculturalism dying out. a famous quote I learnt from school *those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.* women's rights will not be hindered, it's just the media trying to scare everyone

In that case, why has Farage made so many anti-female statements? It's not the media - it's Farage and UKIP's beliefs. You shouldn't dismiss it as it affects 51% of the UK. "
does that mean as a male am a minority?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The point I was trying to make was that it took a civil war for America to be what it is today but to say it doesn't matter because it happened a long time ago doesn't quash with me. It still happened and people died

This started off as being about what history proves. Some one (not you) way up this strand had posted:

"History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems. If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed"

I would say that history proves that the civil war was caused by states seceding from the federation to set up a rival federal state the Confederacy. Also in the hundred years (150 years?) since then, the US has been a leading country in the world, whether or not we like it.

Sometimes people say history proves something without looking at what history proved, don't they?

Few people like civil war and bloodshed, but how many would be against the abolition of slavery in the US? The civil war returned the country to the status quo.

Cue the comedian with the status quo joke..."
.

The civil war ended in 186? Odd.

America was utterly crippled financially until 1900 and even then you could argue it was only the discovery of oil that pulled them to where they were today,I mean they were the Saudi Arabia of oil production until 1950 and coincidentally they've been on the slide financially since it's demise ...a leading country for 150 years after?, and then you declare I should read more history!.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies. Let me assure you..UKIP will not be bombing innocent children and women in their own homeland's..we are not that racist.

Riiiight, just as long as women, homosexuals, immigrants and non-whites have their rights suppressed, yeah? . Well yes I don't agree with Saudi Arabia either !

If you don't agree with limiting the rights of others, you shouldn't vote UKIP.

To put it bluntly, if you do, you are outright saying you do not value the contributions of females and homosexuals to society. "
. So I assume you are anti Islam then ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes again farage wins...and the daily mail go on the attack.....a 2 page spread of his funny faces.....this will surely tip the balance against him ,do you think the media are now so scared of him the only tool in the box is ridicule as the other partys are slowly beginning to listen and change to similar views ? . It could be a crafty way of the Mail helping him ? Think about it ? He doesn't need Tory Votes he needs Labour ! Ps I am a UKIP supporter

Do you agree that Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black country too, then? Or that businesses should be allowed to refuse to serve women or homosexuals?

I thought he came from the "black country"

As for the rest complete nonsense. The uttering s of a handfull of crackpots out of a few million supporters.

Using that criteria I could make the Labour party conference look like the Nuremburg rally's"

No from supporters though are they - they are all from party activists. That's a significant difference.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies. Let me assure you..UKIP will not be bombing innocent children and women in their own homeland's..we are not that racist.

Riiiight, just as long as women, homosexuals, immigrants and non-whites have their rights suppressed, yeah? . Well yes I don't agree with Saudi Arabia either !

If you don't agree with limiting the rights of others, you shouldn't vote UKIP.

To put it bluntly, if you do, you are outright saying you do not value the contributions of females and homosexuals to society. . So I assume you are anti Islam then ?"

It's a religion, not a political party that potentially has an influence on my life. I don't see your point at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They will never give you one, and if they did they would just ramp up the fear till you all vote yes just like the Scottish one.

The far right has been gaining ground all over Europe for 20 years thanks to the EU.

Sometimes in my opinion you need to vote in a slightly right wing party to avoid the worse off the right wing.

I think the EU will fail but more importantly history says it will fail.

I say the euro will fail unless you can massively change the culture of 100 million southern Europeans to match the north... Sound familiar.

So you're recommending we vote UKIP, a right wing group, to evade being right wing - despite the effect it'll have on our society?

How does this help anything? I can only see my rights as a female being hindered and multiculturalism dying out. a famous quote I learnt from school *those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.* women's rights will not be hindered, it's just the media trying to scare everyone "

It makes me laugh when UKIP try and say the media are against them. Compare then to the coverage that the Green's get

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe you could let me know who you have voted for and who you will be voting for...then at least i could compare.

What do you need to compare? All you need to know is I do not support UKIP or their ideologies. Let me assure you..UKIP will not be bombing innocent children and women in their own homeland's..we are not that racist.

Riiiight, just as long as women, homosexuals, immigrants and non-whites have their rights suppressed, yeah? . Well yes I don't agree with Saudi Arabia either !

If you don't agree with limiting the rights of others, you shouldn't vote UKIP.

To put it bluntly, if you do, you are outright saying you do not value the contributions of females and homosexuals to society. . So I assume you are anti Islam then ?

It's a religion, not a political party that potentially has an influence on my life. I don't see your point at all. "

I'm glad you said that. I'm really failing to see the relevence of the repeated comparisons to Islam?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But the EU is not ever going to be our government.

It gives us massive benefit in terms of trade etc. do we really want to lose that? We are no longer self sufficient. In fact we are very far from it. It would be crazy to try and go it alone in this global economy. .

This is nonsense.

They make 99% of the law you live under right now. That is governance

Do not forget our judges sit on the eurpean courts and are involved in law making folk are delusional to point of being dangerous by this way of thinking that we are out of the loop."
.

Yes but there always federal laws trying to squeeze a one size fits all dynamic into a population that's diverse.

Today as we speak millions of people in the US hate all the "federal" bureaucracy and the feeling of disenchantment at having no say in it, it's far away and never listens to them and always evolves war and taxs and there helpless to do anything about it.

Local small governance is always better than large federal ones

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm glad you said that. I'm really failing to see the relevence of the repeated comparisons to Islam?"

Me neither - I also don't understand why someone who equates UKIP to Islam in a negative way would declare they're voting for UKIP? They're not comparable anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The point I was trying to make was that it took a civil war for America to be what it is today but to say it doesn't matter because it happened a long time ago doesn't quash with me. It still happened and people died

This started off as being about what history proves. Some one (not you) way up this strand had posted:

"History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems. If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed"

I would say that history proves that the civil war was caused by states seceding from the federation to set up a rival federal state the Confederacy. Also in the hundred years (150 years?) since then, the US has been a leading country in the world, whether or not we like it.

Sometimes people say history proves something without looking at what history proved, don't they?

Few people like civil war and bloodshed, but how many would be against the abolition of slavery in the US? The civil war returned the country to the status quo.

Cue the comedian with the status quo joke....

The civil war ended in 186? Odd.

America was utterly crippled financially until 1900 and even then you could argue it was only the discovery of oil that pulled them to where they were today,I mean they were the Saudi Arabia of oil production until 1950 and coincidentally they've been on the slide financially since it's demise ...a leading country for 150 years after?, and then you declare I should read more history!."

The Confederacy surrendered in mid 1865.

Of course you can choose to add any post surrender events, economic crises you like into that and say it's still going on now.

Equivalently according to most history books world war 2 ended in 1945. The world economy took many years to recover with many crises, but it doesn't change the date of the end of that conflict either.

Except for a few deluded people apparently.

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

It is just one of the points I disagree with.

I thought I might concentrate on that rather than waffling about everything under the sun

Failed on that then hehe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One final thought I suspect Ukip would disband if we left the Eu !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The point I was trying to make was that it took a civil war for America to be what it is today but to say it doesn't matter because it happened a long time ago doesn't quash with me. It still happened and people died

This started off as being about what history proves. Some one (not you) way up this strand had posted:

"History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems. If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed"

I would say that history proves that the civil war was caused by states seceding from the federation to set up a rival federal state the Confederacy. Also in the hundred years (150 years?) since then, the US has been a leading country in the world, whether or not we like it.

Sometimes people say history proves something without looking at what history proved, don't they?

Few people like civil war and bloodshed, but how many would be against the abolition of slavery in the US? The civil war returned the country to the status quo.

Cue the comedian with the status quo joke....

The civil war ended in 186? Odd.

America was utterly crippled financially until 1900 and even then you could argue it was only the discovery of oil that pulled them to where they were today,I mean they were the Saudi Arabia of oil production until 1950 and coincidentally they've been on the slide financially since it's demise ...a leading country for 150 years after?, and then you declare I should read more history!.

The Confederacy surrendered in mid 1865.

Of course you can choose to add any post surrender events, economic crises you like into that and say it's still going on now.

Equivalently according to most history books world war 2 ended in 1945. The world economy took many years to recover with many crises, but it doesn't change the date of the end of that conflict either.

Except for a few deluded people apparently."
.

I quoted a hundred years divide as it wasn't till the 1960,s that they actually got apartheid abolished (the civil war settled the legality of slavery it just pushed the bigotry in a different direction), so like I said federalisation doesn't cure nationalism or racism or multiculturalism or any other idiom, it didn't work for them it didn't work for south Africa it didn't work for Yugoslavia it didn't work for the ussr and it won't work for us. Now if you wish to come back in another 200 years when we've given up crazy nationalist isims that divide us like race religion, borders armies, poppies, statues of war dead, flags and money then I'll have a regional debate on how we can all live in peace.

Until then my opinion is history proves for 2000 years that federalisation fails or ends in bloody conflict or both.

And if I'm wrong take those un peace keepers out of the Balkans and prove it to me!

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

I think you’re being a little disingenuous. It’s not possible to find any party that you can completely agree, what you have to do is go with the general flow.

For example, if you believe it’s the primary responsibility of the state to look after the welfare of all its citizens then you probably going to tend to vote Labour. If you believe that, for the most part, people should be encourage to make provision for themselves then you’re probably going to tend to vote Conservative. Does that mean you agree with every policy? Of course not.

Myself I tend to vote Conservative. (yer ok get the hate out your systems now) but I don’t agree with everything they say. I definitely don’t think that the uncertainty of a referendum on the EU is what we need now. And I’m not sure that having a massive re-organisation of the NHS in the middle of a financial crises, especially after specifically saying they would not, was such a great idea. But, because I agree with the general theme, that people should be encouraged to make provision for themselves, I probably still vote for them

In the same way, UKIPs main theme is to get out of the European Union. If you believe that that is a good idea then you’re probably going to support them. The fact that some people in the part believe and say things that go beyond that is not going to put you of.

The only way to defeat UKIP is by arguing against its main policy, not any of these other side issues. If you really believe that staying in the European Union is the a good idea (and I do) then start making that argument (as others on here already have) but just accusing those who support UKIP as being racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobes isn’t going to convince them or anyone else. In fact I believe that this rush to label people as racist or sexist or xenophobic or homophobic when trying to discuss immigration, equality of women in the workplace, border control or same sex marriage is partly what has led to the rise of UKIP in the first place.

Let’s counter their main argument face to face. We don’t have to insult them to win

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

Above in reply to 26pions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Above in reply to 26pions "

I've already argued the benefits of the EU in another thread.

UKIP IS racist, sexist, xenophobic, and homophobic. I'm not going to stop talking about it as so many people are unaware of what the party members have actually said and what they believe or stand for. It doesn't help to sweep things under the rug - people need to know they're voting for disgusting beliefs.


"In fact I believe that this rush to label people as racist or sexist or xenophobic or homophobic when trying to discuss immigration, equality of women in the workplace, border control or same sex marriage is partly what has led to the rise of UKIP in the first place."

This doesn't make sense to me at all. Do you expect people to allow sexist, racist, xenophobic or homophobic comments? If you're comfortable saying nothing, that's up to you, but I'm not. I don't think you should tell people to not identify bigoted beliefs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Above in reply to 26pions

I've already argued the benefits of the EU in another thread.

UKIP IS racist, sexist, xenophobic, and homophobic. I'm not going to stop talking about it as so many people are unaware of what the party members have actually said and what they believe or stand for. It doesn't help to sweep things under the rug - people need to know they're voting for disgusting beliefs.

In fact I believe that this rush to label people as racist or sexist or xenophobic or homophobic when trying to discuss immigration, equality of women in the workplace, border control or same sex marriage is partly what has led to the rise of UKIP in the first place.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. Do you expect people to allow sexist, racist, xenophobic or homophobic comments? If you're comfortable saying nothing, that's up to you, but I'm not. I don't think you should tell people to not identify bigoted beliefs. "

I think you both have a point - bigotry ought to be highlighted -and of course poor policies should be unpicked too.

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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West


"I think you’re being a little disingenuous. It’s not possible to find any party that you can completely agree, what you have to do is go with the general flow.

For example, if you believe it’s the primary responsibility of the state to look after the welfare of all its citizens then you probably going to tend to vote Labour. If you believe that, for the most part, people should be encourage to make provision for themselves then you’re probably going to tend to vote Conservative. Does that mean you agree with every policy? Of course not.

Myself I tend to vote Conservative. (yer ok get the hate out your systems now) but I don’t agree with everything they say. I definitely don’t think that the uncertainty of a referendum on the EU is what we need now. And I’m not sure that having a massive re-organisation of the NHS in the middle of a financial crises, especially after specifically saying they would not, was such a great idea. But, because I agree with the general theme, that people should be encouraged to make provision for themselves, I probably still vote for them

In the same way, UKIPs main theme is to get out of the European Union. If you believe that that is a good idea then you’re probably going to support them. The fact that some people in the part believe and say things that go beyond that is not going to put you of.

The only way to defeat UKIP is by arguing against its main policy, not any of these other side issues. If you really believe that staying in the European Union is the a good idea (and I do) then start making that argument (as others on here already have) but just accusing those who support UKIP as being racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobes isn’t going to convince them or anyone else. In fact I believe that this rush to label people as racist or sexist or xenophobic or homophobic when trying to discuss immigration, equality of women in the workplace, border control or same sex marriage is partly what has led to the rise of UKIP in the first place.

Let’s counter their main argument face to face. We don’t have to insult them to win

"

My view too. Well said.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

lenny henry so ashamed of his early racist material he spent years changing his act....not a good example to use...okeeeeeeeeeee!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Above in reply to 26pions

I've already argued the benefits of the EU in another thread.

UKIP IS racist, sexist, xenophobic, and homophobic. I'm not going to stop talking about it as so many people are unaware of what the party members have actually said and what they believe or stand for. It doesn't help to sweep things under the rug - people need to know they're voting for disgusting beliefs.

In fact I believe that this rush to label people as racist or sexist or xenophobic or homophobic when trying to discuss immigration, equality of women in the workplace, border control or same sex marriage is partly what has led to the rise of UKIP in the first place.

This doesn't make sense to me at all. Do you expect people to allow sexist, racist, xenophobic or homophobic comments? If you're comfortable saying nothing, that's up to you, but I'm not. I don't think you should tell people to not identify bigoted beliefs.

I think you both have a point - bigotry ought to be highlighted -and of course poor policies should be unpicked too."
.

There's laws in place that already forbid all of the above. Have been for years.

I presume she's arguing for more toughening of the laws or that federalisation is the best counter for them.

I might agree with the first but my argument is that federalism makes those bigotries worse and not better. Therefore the quickest exit from the eu is the best solution, ukip happen to be the quickest route out at this moment.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

once again my farage mention creates a deluge of opinions....so.....nation wide......you know what day it is !.in nigels words...aha ha ha ha har dee har ! guffah ! chortle !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"lenny henry so ashamed of his early racist material he spent years changing his act....not a good example to use...okeeeeeeeeeee! "

It's besides the point. He was told to move to a black country even though he was born in Dudley.

The exact quote is:

"I think if black people come to this country and don't like mixing with white people why are they here? If he (Henry) wants a lot of blacks around go and live in a black country."

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By *anejohnkent6263Couple
over a year ago

canterbury

all the parties and leaders shit scared of the nige factor esp the posh eaton boy...who knows nowt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

The point I was trying to make was that it took a civil war for America to be what it is today but to say it doesn't matter because it happened a long time ago doesn't quash with me. It still happened and people died

This started off as being about what history proves. Some one (not you) way up this strand had posted:

"History proves countless times that you can't push together, monetary and political union without incurring problems. If you look to the usa and their long bloody civil war which was caused by federal government pushing sperate states together and the hundred year divide that followed"

I would say that history proves that the civil war was caused by states seceding from the federation to set up a rival federal state the Confederacy. Also in the hundred years (150 years?) since then, the US has been a leading country in the world, whether or not we like it.

Sometimes people say history proves something without looking at what history proved, don't they?

Few people like civil war and bloodshed, but how many would be against the abolition of slavery in the US? The civil war returned the country to the status quo.

Cue the comedian with the status quo joke....

The civil war ended in 186? Odd.

America was utterly crippled financially until 1900 and even then you could argue it was only the discovery of oil that pulled them to where they were today,I mean they were the Saudi Arabia of oil production until 1950 and coincidentally they've been on the slide financially since it's demise ...a leading country for 150 years after?, and then you declare I should read more history!.

The Confederacy surrendered in mid 1865.

Of course you can choose to add any post surrender events, economic crises you like into that and say it's still going on now.

Equivalently according to most history books world war 2 ended in 1945. The world economy took many years to recover with many crises, but it doesn't change the date of the end of that conflict either.

Except for a few deluded people apparently..

I quoted a hundred years divide as it wasn't till the 1960,s that they actually got apartheid abolished (the civil war settled the legality of slavery it just pushed the bigotry in a different direction), so like I said federalisation doesn't cure nationalism or racism or multiculturalism or any other idiom, it didn't work for them it didn't work for south Africa it didn't work for Yugoslavia it didn't work for the ussr and it won't work for us. Now if you wish to come back in another 200 years when we've given up crazy nationalist isims that divide us like race religion, borders armies, poppies, statues of war dead, flags and money then I'll have a regional debate on how we can all live in peace.

Until then my opinion is history proves for 2000 years that federalisation fails or ends in bloody conflict or both.

And if I'm wrong take those un peace keepers out of the Balkans and prove it to me!"

So that Serbia could annexe Kosovo? Well I suppose that's one way of 'federating' them but not quite the consequence you'd expect.

Also I'm pretty sure that we don't need a cure for multiculturalism - especially not the sort of cure that right wing parties have pushed in the past. History is pretty strong about what happens when they get the upper hand.

In the meanwhile those peacekeepers in Kosovo would be more than happy to be in the USA or virtually anywhere in the EU.. even Cyprus.

Let's catch up in 2214

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"all the parties and leaders shit scared of the nige factor esp the posh eaton boy...who knows nowt"

Nigel Farage went to Dulwich which is nearly £40,000 a year for boarders. It's just as exclusive as Eton...

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

I think it's about winning the argument to stay in Europe and not scoring points.

For example; It may be bigoted and xenophobic (and also false) to say that immigrants come over here just to take advantage of our generous benefits and health system (Neither of which are actually quite the wonders we seem to think they are compared to the rest of Europe).

But it's not bigoted or xenophobic to worry about your kids access to the local because 100s of East Europeans have moved into the area and there are not enough school places near by. That's a real concern that people need to have addressed. The fact that those real concerns were not addressed, and when people raised then they were accused of being racist and bigoted, is what leads to the rise of parties like UKIP.

It's really up to you. If you want to win the debate and stay in Europe then make the argument for staying in Europe. If, on the other hand, you just want to try and shame people out of there beliefs than carry on but it won't stop them believing and wont keep us in Europe.

PS. I'll try and find you other thread where you make the good argument before I comment more

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it's about winning the argument to stay in Europe and not scoring points.

For example; It may be bigoted and xenophobic (and also false) to say that immigrants come over here just to take advantage of our generous benefits and health system (Neither of which are actually quite the wonders we seem to think they are compared to the rest of Europe).

But it's not bigoted or xenophobic to worry about your kids access to the local because 100s of East Europeans have moved into the area and there are not enough school places near by. That's a real concern that people need to have addressed. The fact that those real concerns were not addressed, and when people raised then they were accused of being racist and bigoted, is what leads to the rise of parties like UKIP.

It's really up to you. If you want to win the debate and stay in Europe then make the argument for staying in Europe. If, on the other hand, you just want to try and shame people out of there beliefs than carry on but it won't stop them believing and wont keep us in Europe.

PS. I'll try and find you other thread where you make the good argument before I comment more"

Hmmmm so "Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool" wasn't trying to shame people out of their beliefs?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it's about winning the argument to stay in Europe and not scoring points.

For example; It may be bigoted and xenophobic (and also false) to say that immigrants come over here just to take advantage of our generous benefits and health system (Neither of which are actually quite the wonders we seem to think they are compared to the rest of Europe).

But it's not bigoted or xenophobic to worry about your kids access to the local because 100s of East Europeans have moved into the area and there are not enough school places near by. That's a real concern that people need to have addressed. The fact that those real concerns were not addressed, and when people raised then they were accused of being racist and bigoted, is what leads to the rise of parties like UKIP.

It's really up to you. If you want to win the debate and stay in Europe then make the argument for staying in Europe. If, on the other hand, you just want to try and shame people out of there beliefs than carry on but it won't stop them believing and wont keep us in Europe.

PS. I'll try and find you other thread where you make the good argument before I comment more"

Regarding xenophobia - their old “Pocket Guide to Immigration” said they'd “end support for multiculturalism and promote one, common British culture”. They also suggested compulsory health checks for all immigrants. There's more specific examples on Islamophobia like banning the burqa or the quote "we have to do a bit more to teach our children of the values of our Judeo-Christian society".

On sexism, Godfrey Bloom said “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman”, Farage responded with “Dear old Godders! Godfrey's comment has been proved so right.”

As for homophobia, the main things that stand out are rights to marriage and how homosexuality is linked to paedophilia strongly. They've fired members for supporting same sex marriage.

I also don't appreciate being called disingenuous as I've been nothing but sincere.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

Our you seriously saying that Anyone who has had the best education money can buy should no be allowed to use the benefits of that for, what they believe to be, the public good.

The reality is NON of our political leaders went to your bog standard local comp. They were all lucky enough to have parents who could afford to send then to either a good private schools or buy a house in the catchment area of a top state school.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Our you seriously saying that Anyone who has had the best education money can buy should no be allowed to use the benefits of that for, what they believe to be, the public good.

The reality is NON of our political leaders went to your bog standard local comp. They were all lucky enough to have parents who could afford to send then to either a good private schools or buy a house in the catchment area of a top state school."

Are you talking to me? If so - no. I had a private education, I've nothing against it at all. My point was that you shouldn't ridicule Cameron for something when Farage has had exactly the same background.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it's about winning the argument to stay in Europe and not scoring points.

For example; It may be bigoted and xenophobic (and also false) to say that immigrants come over here just to take advantage of our generous benefits and health system (Neither of which are actually quite the wonders we seem to think they are compared to the rest of Europe).

But it's not bigoted or xenophobic to worry about your kids access to the local because 100s of East Europeans have moved into the area and there are not enough school places near by. That's a real concern that people need to have addressed. The fact that those real concerns were not addressed, and when people raised then they were accused of being racist and bigoted, is what leads to the rise of parties like UKIP.

It's really up to you. If you want to win the debate and stay in Europe then make the argument for staying in Europe. If, on the other hand, you just want to try and shame people out of there beliefs than carry on but it won't stop them believing and wont keep us in Europe.

PS. I'll try and find you other thread where you make the good argument before I comment more

Hmmmm so "Anyone who supports the political EU Superstate is a deluded fool" wasn't trying to shame people out of their beliefs?"
.

I don't care what political beliefs you have, whether it be left or right, I'll add mine happen to be left.

The eu concept is and always has been a fascist concept, conceived by the Nazis during ww2, founded by fascists from all over Europe in the 50,s, it's aim is a fascist (proper fascism not Nigel's version) monolithic government taking democratic powers from the people and replacing it with bureaucracy so overwhelming that any small entity gives up.

You can now be arrested and sent to a foreign country without trial or habeas corpus, all from a free and democratic country your ancestors fought for.

Your money and taxs are spent on your behalf on what they perceive to be the right things, without any transparency or auditing. What we all know is the bigger the organisation the more corruption and waste you get! It's no different with the EU.

The only people that have real power is the unelected bureaucrats and the corporations that bribe them for endless tax loopholes.

The one thing we know for sure is none of us agree about much on these threads, which should be no surprise as were all different individuals with different aspects. But that is also the biggest worry as the one thing every mainstream politician and party agree on is that we need to be in the EU, this is only single thing that's united them in a hundred years of politics!!. Wtf.

That fact should scare you all with sleepless nights alone for the one thing we can agree on in these forums is power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The eu concept is and always has been a fascist concept, conceived by the Nazis during ww2, founded by fascists from all over Europe in the 50,s, it's aim is a fascist (proper fascism not Nigel's version) monolithic government taking democratic powers from the people and replacing it with bureaucracy so overwhelming that any small entity gives up."

What?? When has the EU ever promoted violence or encouraged war? I don't know how it can be considered a fascist group when it's working towards peace and prosperity.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

I wasn't accusing you of being disingenuous, although on re-reading it I can see that it might sound like I was, rather accusing you of accusing them of being disingenuous. I can clearly see that you hold your views sincerely.

As for “end support for multiculturalism and promote one, common British culture”. Sounds a bit like Ed M's one nation speech to me. Multiculturalism was never meant to mean complete tolerance of ever aspect of every culture and it's not bigoted to say we should teach liberal tolerant values to children of any and every background.

Do not those original values come from our Judeo-Christian tradition? Should we have to deny that?

Godfrey Bloom's “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman". Badly put but it does highlight the fact that some employers still worry about the cost of women leaving the work force to have children. Surly that still needs to be addressed. Calling him a chauvinist isn't going to going to do that. The reality is women are still paid less than men on average and a lot of employers, especially in small companies, still worry about employing young women in critical roles. Realist or chauvinist, what are we as a country going to do to correct this; surly that's the real point here.

As for opposition to same sex marriage. Well millions of people in this country don't agree with that either for loads of reasons, not just religious (And I don't thing you could call the Church Of England a heaving bit of right wing bigots). I personally have no real problem with it but I don't like the Orwellian 1984'ish New Speak changing of the meaning of words to suit the 'New Politics'. Does that make me a homophobic gay hater? I'll let others decide for themselves about that.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"The eu concept is and always has been a fascist concept, conceived by the Nazis during ww2, founded by fascists from all over Europe in the 50,s, it's aim is a fascist (proper fascism not Nigel's version) monolithic government taking democratic powers from the people and replacing it with bureaucracy so overwhelming that any small entity gives up.

What?? When has the EU ever promoted violence or encouraged war? I don't know how it can be considered a fascist group when it's working towards peace and prosperity. "

Ah yes. Peace and prosperity.

Tell that to the Ukrainians.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The eu concept is and always has been a fascist concept, conceived by the Nazis during ww2, founded by fascists from all over Europe in the 50,s, it's aim is a fascist (proper fascism not Nigel's version) monolithic government taking democratic powers from the people and replacing it with bureaucracy so overwhelming that any small entity gives up.

What?? When has the EU ever promoted violence or encouraged war? I don't know how it can be considered a fascist group when it's working towards peace and prosperity. "
.

Not all fascist are jack booted despot's.

There an authoritarian state that seeks it's authority through protectionism, all there leaders are dictators and they seek absolute power.

Winston Churchill for all his faults had a sixth sense for sniffing out fascists and Nazis and he hated the very concept of an EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I wasn't accusing you of being disingenuous, although on re-reading it I can see that it might sound like I was, rather accusing you of accusing them of being disingenuous. I can clearly see that you hold your views sincerely.

As for “end support for multiculturalism and promote one, common British culture”. Sounds a bit like Ed M's one nation speech to me. Multiculturalism was never meant to mean complete tolerance of ever aspect of every culture and it's not bigoted to say we should teach liberal tolerant values to children of any and every background.

Do not those original values come from our Judeo-Christian tradition? Should we have to deny that?

Godfrey Bloom's “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman". Badly put but it does highlight the fact that some employers still worry about the cost of women leaving the work force to have children. Surly that still needs to be addressed. Calling him a chauvinist isn't going to going to do that. The reality is women are still paid less than men on average and a lot of employers, especially in small companies, still worry about employing young women in critical roles. Realist or chauvinist, what are we as a country going to do to correct this; surly that's the real point here.

As for opposition to same sex marriage. Well millions of people in this country don't agree with that either for loads of reasons, not just religious (And I don't thing you could call the Church Of England a heaving bit of right wing bigots). I personally have no real problem with it but I don't like the Orwellian 1984'ish New Speak changing of the meaning of words to suit the 'New Politics'. Does that make me a homophobic gay hater? I'll let others decide for themselves about that.

"

Do you not believe that those few "blunders" I mentioned are already far too many for just one party and suggest they have bigoted views (as long as they can dress them up as populist)?

For me, they're all more than enough to disgust me and ensure I will never vote for UKIP.

The main point for me is that I do not want a party that doesn't value me as a female. I contribute more to society in terms of tax and volunteering than most citizens; however they've completely dismissed me in a sweeping statement.

I care more about those I commented on than their stance on our EU membership which is why I'll continue to point them out. It's not about winning an argument, it's about highlighting what is intrinsically wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now let's keep calm. The EU acknowledges 11 people as 'founders' on its web site. Just assuming for a few seconds that they are not lying:

Konrad Adenauer - was hounded out of office by the Nazis in 1933 and imprisoned by the Gestapo in 1944

Joseph Bech - was forced into exile in Britan during WW2

Johan William Bayen - was exiled during WW2

Alcide de gasperi was imprisoned by Mussolini between 1927 and 1929 and later exiled to the Vatican

Altiero Spinelli joined the communist party in 1917

Winston Churchill - you can make your own mind up about his fascist credentials

I can't be bothered to research the other 5, but I'm pretty sure that those named above may have had many faults and may have been (for all I know) filthy despicable federalist capitalists) but they're unlikely to collude with fascists/Nazis.

Truth is the first casualty of war. Just because you assert something very positively, it doesn't make it true. Just like much of the stuff from Farage.

I'm off now, entertaining as this post is. As for having Nigel's version of fascism instead of the proper version - no thanks. Just like I doubt many will find his version of racism acceptable.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

Hmmmm so "Anyone who supports the political EU Super state is a deluded fool" wasn't trying to shame people out of their beliefs?.

It was and, it hasn't changed for view. I only didn't point it out to the author because I want them to loose the argument, and with comments like that they probably will, especially if we argue on the facts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The eu concept is and always has been a fascist concept, conceived by the Nazis during ww2, founded by fascists from all over Europe in the 50,s, it's aim is a fascist (proper fascism not Nigel's version) monolithic government taking democratic powers from the people and replacing it with bureaucracy so overwhelming that any small entity gives up.

What?? When has the EU ever promoted violence or encouraged war? I don't know how it can be considered a fascist group when it's working towards peace and prosperity. .

Not all fascist are jack booted despot's.

There an authoritarian state that seeks it's authority through protectionism, all there leaders are dictators and they seek absolute power.

Winston Churchill for all his faults had a sixth sense for sniffing out fascists and Nazis and he hated the very concept of an EU."

According to the EU he was one of their founding fathers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The eu concept is and always has been a fascist concept, conceived by the Nazis during ww2, founded by fascists from all over Europe in the 50,s, it's aim is a fascist (proper fascism not Nigel's version) monolithic government taking democratic powers from the people and replacing it with bureaucracy so overwhelming that any small entity gives up.

What?? When has the EU ever promoted violence or encouraged war? I don't know how it can be considered a fascist group when it's working towards peace and prosperity.

Ah yes. Peace and prosperity.

Tell that to the Ukrainians."

Ukraine voted to join the EU, and it has since helped them broker deals with Russia - it has also provided financial assistance.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"Winston Churchill for all his faults had a sixth sense for sniffing out fascists and Nazis and he hated the very concept of an EU."

‘We must build a kind of United States of Europe.. The structure of the United States of Europe, if well and truly built, will be such as to make the material strength of a single state less important.. If at first all the States of Europe are not willing or able to join the Union, we must nevertheless proceed to assemble and combine those who will and those who can.’ Winston Churchill Zurich 1946

Not exactly the Euro Sceptic you seem to think

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes

It would be really helpful if this site actually put the name of the person you're quoting from or replying to next to the quote or at the top of the message.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It would be really helpful if this site actually put the name of the person you're quoting from or replying to next to the quote or at the top of the message."

Use the "reply+quote" button.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Like him or not UKIP are certainly gaining ground

I for one believe we need out of the failed experiment known as the EU "

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"It would be really helpful if this site actually put the name of the person you're quoting from or replying to next to the quote or at the top of the message."

I only seem to have

Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote or View forums list

The +quote is the one I'm using for this reply

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By *lassic1Man
over a year ago

bellshill


"He's an idiot. He's hindering progress by making stupid statements like women with children were worth less than men.

Plus his stances on certain topics like relaxing gun control are dangerous, and his councillors have some ridiculous views (making all Muslims sign a contract to abstain from terrorism or that homophobia doesn't exist and is merely propaganda). "

and your stance is...?????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's an idiot. He's hindering progress by making stupid statements like women with children were worth less than men.

Plus his stances on certain topics like relaxing gun control are dangerous, and his councillors have some ridiculous views (making all Muslims sign a contract to abstain from terrorism or that homophobia doesn't exist and is merely propaganda).

and your stance is...?????"

I'm pretty obviously against UKIP...

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"Like him or not UKIP are certainly gaining ground

I for one believe we need out of the failed experiment known as the EU

"

And when or if it does fail do you really think that us not being part of it will make us immune to the affects. The only difference not being part of the EU will have on us is that we will have no say and no influence to try and make sure it, and with it us, does not fail

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's an idiot. He's hindering progress by making stupid statements like women with children were worth less than men.

Plus his stances on certain topics like relaxing gun control are dangerous, and his councillors have some ridiculous views (making all Muslims sign a contract to abstain from terrorism or that homophobia doesn't exist and is merely propaganda).

and your stance is...?????"

Just my view, but this looks like an extreme anti-idiot stance to me. Is anyone pro-idiot?

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"He's an idiot. He's hindering progress by making stupid statements like women with children were worth less than men.

Plus his stances on certain topics like relaxing gun control are dangerous, and his councillors have some ridiculous views (making all Muslims sign a contract to abstain from terrorism or that homophobia doesn't exist and is merely propaganda).

and your stance is...?????

Just my view, but this looks like an extreme anti-idiot stance to me. Is anyone pro-idiot?"

Only when I'm the idiot. LOL

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it's about winning the argument to stay in Europe and not scoring points.

For example; It may be bigoted and xenophobic (and also false) to say that immigrants come over here just to take advantage of our generous benefits and health system (Neither of which are actually quite the wonders we seem to think they are compared to the rest of Europe).

But it's not bigoted or xenophobic to worry about your kids access to the local because 100s of East Europeans have moved into the area and there are not enough school places near by. That's a real concern that people need to have addressed. The fact that those real concerns were not addressed, and when people raised then they were accused of being racist and bigoted, is what leads to the rise of parties like UKIP.

It's really up to you. If you want to win the debate and stay in Europe then make the argument for staying in Europe. If, on the other hand, you just want to try and shame people out of there beliefs than carry on but it won't stop them believing and wont keep us in Europe.

PS. I'll try and find you other thread where you make the good argument before I comment more

Regarding xenophobia - their old “Pocket Guide to Immigration” said they'd “end support for multiculturalism and promote one, common British culture”. They also suggested compulsory health checks for all immigrants. There's more specific examples on Islamophobia like banning the burqa or the quote "we have to do a bit more to teach our children of the values of our Judeo-Christian society".

On sexism, Godfrey Bloom said “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman”, Farage responded with “Dear old Godders! Godfrey's comment has been proved so right.”

As for homophobia, the main things that stand out are rights to marriage and how homosexuality is linked to paedophilia strongly. They've fired members for supporting same sex marriage.

I also don't appreciate being called disingenuous as I've been nothing but sincere. "
So are you for,or against women wearing the burqa..It's just that you slated UKIP for wanting to limit women's right's in another post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it's about winning the argument to stay in Europe and not scoring points.

For example; It may be bigoted and xenophobic (and also false) to say that immigrants come over here just to take advantage of our generous benefits and health system (Neither of which are actually quite the wonders we seem to think they are compared to the rest of Europe).

But it's not bigoted or xenophobic to worry about your kids access to the local because 100s of East Europeans have moved into the area and there are not enough school places near by. That's a real concern that people need to have addressed. The fact that those real concerns were not addressed, and when people raised then they were accused of being racist and bigoted, is what leads to the rise of parties like UKIP.

It's really up to you. If you want to win the debate and stay in Europe then make the argument for staying in Europe. If, on the other hand, you just want to try and shame people out of there beliefs than carry on but it won't stop them believing and wont keep us in Europe.

PS. I'll try and find you other thread where you make the good argument before I comment more

Regarding xenophobia - their old “Pocket Guide to Immigration” said they'd “end support for multiculturalism and promote one, common British culture”. They also suggested compulsory health checks for all immigrants. There's more specific examples on Islamophobia like banning the burqa or the quote "we have to do a bit more to teach our children of the values of our Judeo-Christian society".

On sexism, Godfrey Bloom said “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman”, Farage responded with “Dear old Godders! Godfrey's comment has been proved so right.”

As for homophobia, the main things that stand out are rights to marriage and how homosexuality is linked to paedophilia strongly. They've fired members for supporting same sex marriage.

I also don't appreciate being called disingenuous as I've been nothing but sincere. So are you for,or against women wearing the burqa..It's just that you slated UKIP for wanting to limit women's right's in another post."

I think it's every woman's personal choice, and shouldn't be a political policy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's an idiot. He's hindering progress by making stupid statements like women with children were worth less than men.

Plus his stances on certain topics like relaxing gun control are dangerous, and his councillors have some ridiculous views (making all Muslims sign a contract to abstain from terrorism or that homophobia doesn't exist and is merely propaganda).

and your stance is...?????

Just my view, but this looks like an extreme anti-idiot stance to me. Is anyone pro-idiot?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it's about winning the argument to stay in Europe and not scoring points.

For example; It may be bigoted and xenophobic (and also false) to say that immigrants come over here just to take advantage of our generous benefits and health system (Neither of which are actually quite the wonders we seem to think they are compared to the rest of Europe).

But it's not bigoted or xenophobic to worry about your kids access to the local because 100s of East Europeans have moved into the area and there are not enough school places near by. That's a real concern that people need to have addressed. The fact that those real concerns were not addressed, and when people raised then they were accused of being racist and bigoted, is what leads to the rise of parties like UKIP.

It's really up to you. If you want to win the debate and stay in Europe then make the argument for staying in Europe. If, on the other hand, you just want to try and shame people out of there beliefs than carry on but it won't stop them believing and wont keep us in Europe.

PS. I'll try and find you other thread where you make the good argument before I comment more

Regarding xenophobia - their old “Pocket Guide to Immigration” said they'd “end support for multiculturalism and promote one, common British culture”. They also suggested compulsory health checks for all immigrants. There's more specific examples on Islamophobia like banning the burqa or the quote "we have to do a bit more to teach our children of the values of our Judeo-Christian society".

On sexism, Godfrey Bloom said “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman”, Farage responded with “Dear old Godders! Godfrey's comment has been proved so right.”

As for homophobia, the main things that stand out are rights to marriage and how homosexuality is linked to paedophilia strongly. They've fired members for supporting same sex marriage.

I also don't appreciate being called disingenuous as I've been nothing but sincere. So are you for,or against women wearing the burqa..It's just that you slated UKIP for wanting to limit women's right's in another post.

I think it's every woman's personal choice, and shouldn't be a political policy. "
Wrong...it's the man's choice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" So are you for,or against women wearing the burqa..It's just that you slated UKIP for wanting to limit women's right's in another post.

I think it's every woman's personal choice, and shouldn't be a political policy. Wrong...it's the man's choice."

What?

Have you never met a woman that wants to be Muslim? Why would you even think that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" So are you for,or against women wearing the burqa..It's just that you slated UKIP for wanting to limit women's right's in another post.

I think it's every woman's personal choice, and shouldn't be a political policy. Wrong...it's the man's choice.

What?

Have you never met a woman that wants to be Muslim? Why would you even think that?"
They are made to wear it..history will tell you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" So are you for,or against women wearing the burqa..It's just that you slated UKIP for wanting to limit women's right's in another post.

I think it's every woman's personal choice, and shouldn't be a political policy. Wrong...it's the man's choice.

What?

Have you never met a woman that wants to be Muslim? Why would you even think that?They are made to wear it..history will tell you."

I'm not getting into this as it's totally offensive and off topic.

I am discussing UKIP and not Islam.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


" janesjh: So are you for,or against women wearing the burqa..It's just that you slated UKIP for wanting to limit women's right's in another post."

It's surly anyone's, including a woman's, right to wear what ever they like. I personally am not in favour of women wearing burgas but I definitely don't think it should be panned. It's perfectly OK to favour one thing without wanting to ban the other. It's called being liberal (note the small 'l') and tolerant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it's about winning the argument to stay in Europe and not scoring points.

For example; It may be bigoted and xenophobic (and also false) to say that immigrants come over here just to take advantage of our generous benefits and health system (Neither of which are actually quite the wonders we seem to think they are compared to the rest of Europe).

But it's not bigoted or xenophobic to worry about your kids access to the local because 100s of East Europeans have moved into the area and there are not enough school places near by. That's a real concern that people need to have addressed. The fact that those real concerns were not addressed, and when people raised then they were accused of being racist and bigoted, is what leads to the rise of parties like UKIP.

It's really up to you. If you want to win the debate and stay in Europe then make the argument for staying in Europe. If, on the other hand, you just want to try and shame people out of there beliefs than carry on but it won't stop them believing and wont keep us in Europe.

PS. I'll try and find you other thread where you make the good argument before I comment more

Regarding xenophobia - their old “Pocket Guide to Immigration” said they'd “end support for multiculturalism and promote one, common British culture”. They also suggested compulsory health checks for all immigrants. There's more specific examples on Islamophobia like banning the burqa or the quote "we have to do a bit more to teach our children of the values of our Judeo-Christian society".

On sexism, Godfrey Bloom said “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman”, Farage responded with “Dear old Godders! Godfrey's comment has been proved so right.”

As for homophobia, the main things that stand out are rights to marriage and how homosexuality is linked to paedophilia strongly. They've fired members for supporting same sex marriage.

I also don't appreciate being called disingenuous as I've been nothing but sincere. So are you for,or against women wearing the burqa..It's just that you slated UKIP for wanting to limit women's right's in another post.

I think it's every woman's personal choice, and shouldn't be a political policy. Wrong...it's the man's choice."

At times I think it is - and at times it isn't. It's not always easy to distinguish.

For example, many of the children of maghrebi immigrants in France choose not to wear the headscarf nor the burqa. It's often European converts and thus far there has been nothing to substantiate that they were forced or even coaxed into either the conversion or the choice to wear a burqa.

If your desire to ban the burqa is to save women from persecution - your intentions are noble - though if such a ban were to go through - it'd make life difficult for women who freely choose to wear such a garment.

Difficult position.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" So are you for,or against women wearing the burqa..It's just that you slated UKIP for wanting to limit women's right's in another post.

I think it's every woman's personal choice, and shouldn't be a political policy. Wrong...it's the man's choice.

What?

Have you never met a woman that wants to be Muslim? Why would you even think that?They are made to wear it..history will tell you.

I'm not getting into this as it's totally offensive and off topic.

I am discussing UKIP and not Islam. "
it was you that mentioned women's right's and Ukip wanting to ban the burqa.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan
over a year ago

Widnes


"

26pions

I think it's every woman's personal choice, and shouldn't be a political policy.

janesjh Wrong...it's the man's choice."

I think a lot of the time you are probably right about it being the choice of the man not the woman. That's why it is important that we teach tolerance and individual rights to the children of these men and women but banning them would just send a message of intolerance and possibly be seen as islamophobic. Very counter productive in my view.

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