FabSwingers.com forum: Electricians help needed!

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Wiring up a electric cooker, on the back of the cooker there's the connection box, there's three screws on the left and three on the right, on the top left the brown (live) is wired up, on the top right is the blue neutral, on the bottom right the earth is connected but it keeps tripping the switch, any idea's????

Any advice would be appreciated

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By *ce WingerMan
over a year ago

P.O. Box DE1 0NQ

My kettle kept tripping ma sockets the other morning. I bought another kettle

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wiring up a electric cooker, on the back of the cooker there's the connection box, there's three screws on the left and three on the right, on the top left the brown (live) is wired up, on the top right is the blue neutral, on the bottom right the earth is connected but it keeps tripping the switch, any idea's????

Any advice would be appreciated

"
.

Yeah you've got your earth in with the neutral and I'm guessing you have an rcd and that's tripping it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a Smeg is it?.

Ours did that a few years ago on Christmas day, with the turkey half done in it.

I pulled the back off to have a look and all the insulation had fallen off the wires.

Lovely looking cooker, crap wiring.

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford

the cooker is faulty if tripping out the switch

i would not advise upon using it or disconnecting the earth from the cooker then doing a test as the cooker may become live itself

usual faults on those is the heating elements are fried or electric knob has become short circuit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Any advice would be appreciated

Yeah you've got your earth in with the neutral and I'm guessing you have an rcd and that's tripping it."
.

Although someone's bound to tell you I'm an idiot who smoke while pouring diesel and that the cooker should be wrapped in anti bomb proof jacket while you phone mi5 immediately with the lights turned off

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Any advice would be appreciated

Yeah you've got your earth in with the neutral and I'm guessing you have an rcd and that's tripping it."

The neutral and earth are seprated, the Earth is in its correct place I think its gotta be live or neutral that might be in wrong place?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Either your cooker wattage is too high for rcd fuse or theirs fault with cooker orits wired incorrectly red live black neutral or Brown live blue neutral ,earth to earth

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suspect you may need to call a qualified electrician out if you are having problems.

We can all have a go at guessing the problem, but without actually being there physically, that's all we will be able to do - guess.

Kitchen Electrics are quite tightly regulated now, and while you are permitted under law to connect your new cooker to the existing cooker circuit, any other works involving kitchen electrics MUST be carried out by a qualified electrician.

I suspect, therefore, that if you're having issues from connecting the terminals up to the appropriately labelled equivalents in the wall, there may be some erroneous issue in the house wiring.

Best to have it checked out by an expert.

The alternative doesn't really bear thinking about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What's it tripping the MCB or the rcd

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The alternative doesn't really bear thinking about."

oh I don't know, some take away food isn't that bad or there's always salad..

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By *ce WingerMan
over a year ago

P.O. Box DE1 0NQ

"What's it tripping the MCB or the rcd"

Acceeeeddddd, sorry, not being much help here at all am I really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The alternative doesn't really bear thinking about.

oh I don't know, some take away food isn't that bad or there's always salad.."

I was thinking more along the lines of the house catching fire, but yes, a good excuse for a nice takeaway

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Any advice would be appreciated

Yeah you've got your earth in with the neutral and I'm guessing you have an rcd and that's tripping it.

The neutral and earth are seprated, the Earth is in its correct place I think its gotta be live or neutral that might be in wrong place?"
.

For fault finding start at the beginning.

Is the cooker new?, was it already wired?, did you have a previous cooker that worked fine?, what's it tripping exactly.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I'm sure I've made a mistake with wiring, brown(live) is connected to number 3, blue nuatral is connected to number 4, and earth to earth, numbers are next to the terminals in the black box, Think I'll get a sparky in its a matter of regulation. Thanks for advice guys.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Yep it's a brand new cooker, never been fitted before

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I am not sure it is legal to wire up cookers unless you are an Electrician, and probably why you are struggling

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm sure I've made a mistake with wiring, brown(live) is connected to number 3, blue nuatral is connected to number 4, and earth to earth, numbers are next to the terminals in the black box, Think I'll get a sparky in its a matter of regulation. Thanks for advice guys."
.

They usually come with multiple connections to allow for different wiring in different country's.

Not always but usually

3 live connections linked with copper bars

2 neutral connections linked with copper bars

And the earth is usually separate and marked with an arrow with a little circle.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What's the model and make and I'll look on line and tell you what the numbers do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am not sure it is legal to wire up cookers unless you are an Electrician, and probably why you are struggling

I've checked.

You are legally permitted to connect a cooker to the cooker circuit (socket)

(I.e. When replacing New for Old, or refitting existing appliance after decorating etc)

Any other electrical work within the kitchen MUST be carried out by a qualified electrician (or at least) signed off by a Part P registered electrician.

I had to do some work on my Kitchen wiring 4 years ago.

I am suitably competent, just not Part P certified - but had it checked and signed off.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you tried licking it?

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By *obbley69Man
over a year ago

ts25

try reading the manual

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By *obbley69Man
over a year ago

ts25

ohhh and theres no such thing as part p....nic eic registered spark here

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I am not sure it is legal to wire up cookers unless you are an Electrician, and probably why you are struggling

I've checked.

You are legally permitted to connect a cooker to the cooker circuit (socket)

(I.e. When replacing New for Old, or refitting existing appliance after decorating etc)

Any other electrical work within the kitchen MUST be carried out by a qualified electrician (or at least) signed off by a Part P registered electrician.

I had to do some work on my Kitchen wiring 4 years ago.

I am suitably competent, just not Part P certified - but had it checked and signed off."

Thanks for the advice will get a sparky in tomorrow better be safe then sorry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ohhh and theres no such thing as part p....nic eic registered spark here

Sorry, I meant IEE Wiring Regulations 17th Edition

Used to come under Part P of Building regs - which is why I made the mistake of referring to them as such.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You've got the earth wrong.

You've got a multiple connection cooker, there usually generic for different wiring.

The earth is nearly always outside the black connection box this is because most countries don't run on an earthed system.

Part p has nothing at all to do with wiring your own cooker.

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By *ce WingerMan
over a year ago

P.O. Box DE1 0NQ

Have fitted a few cookers in ma time

Ah, sorry, they were gas cookers though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"ohhh and theres no such thing as part p....nic eic registered spark here

Sorry, I meant IEE Wiring Regulations 17th Edition

Used to come under Part P of Building regs - which is why I made the mistake of referring to them as such."
.

Part p is part p of the building regs and is statutory to comply too but it doesn't include cookers.

Iee is wiring guidance and not statutory.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Go on. Just give it a lick

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford

"I suspect you may need to call a qualified electrician out if you are having problems.

We can all have a go at guessing the problem, but without actually being there physically, that's all we will be able to do - guess.

I suspect, therefore, that if you're having issues from connecting the terminals up to the appropriately labelled equivalents in the wall, there may be some erroneous issue in the house wiring.

Best to have it checked out by an expert.

The alternative doesn't really bear thinking about."
. A qualified electrician will have all the appropriate test equipment. I would prefer to pay a. sixty pound call out charge than risk being electrocuted. In the past I have done quite a lot of wiring work and even installed my own central heating . However an amateur is unlikely to have sufficient knowledge of earthing or the various tests which it is necessary to carry out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is why we need photo capability of the forums.

Has it been wired according to the instructions? What mm2 cable are you using? If it isn't at least 6mm that could explain something.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Actually. Scrap that. You are talking about the unit itself aren't you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You knew, if you post the make and model of the cooker, we could at least Google the installation manual and so we could get an idea of what the terminals actual do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cable size doesn't effect tripping.

If it was undersized it would melt

I.b-i.n-i.z

Design current

Fuse size

Cable size.

He's got the earth in the wrong place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You knew, if you post the make and model of the cooker, we could at least Google the installation manual and so we could get an idea of what the terminals actual do."
.

I said that an hour ago.

When I read about timewasters on here I didn't expect this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Part p is part p of the building regs and is statutory to comply too but it doesn't include cookers.

Iee is wiring guidance and not statutory."

OK, so I may be quoting the incorrect information regarding what the actual regulations are called, but I am aware that there were major changes made around 2005 which restricted what electrical work a homeowner could and couldn't do.

I also understand that some of the initial restrictions were relaxed slightly between part 16 and Part 17

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If I can just add, that the 'regulations' that I have been quoting are those that I have come across searching for regulations governing UK electrical work permitted in the home over the years, as a lay person. I.E. Member of the general public. I am not, nor have I ever claimed to be, a qualified electrician.

Obviously, if I have been quoting incorrect regulations then there is perhaps a matter for government to resolve with regard to the availability of information on the subject.

It's all very well having regulations (and indeed updating those regulations from time to time) but it is important to manage the information so that it remains relevant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And here's us thinking we joined a swinging site

.... but anyhow,

Electrician here ......... but sorry this is the wrong place to offer advice to someone who does not know what they are doing.

Its actually relatively simple - if you dont know - then pay a professional to do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Part p is part p of the building regs and is statutory to comply too but it doesn't include cookers.

Iee is wiring guidance and not statutory.

I also understand that some of the initial restrictions were relaxed slightly between part 16 and Part 17

Going back to OP's initial problem, I think it's fair to say that the problem they have encountered is beyond their own electrical know-how and that they ultimately require the services of a qualified sparky."
. You can't put circuits in or alter them substantially, you can't change your consumer unit, or install anything in a restricted zone, bathroom, outside...

And your not allowed to do it yourself and get someone to test it, as your not meant(the electrician) to test anyone's work but your own.

So I'm not quite sure how you got your signed off unless the signer was a friend

Anyhow cookers are fine but we're getting nowhere with this one.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

And your not allowed to do it yourself and get someone to test it, as your not meant(the electrician) to test anyone's work but your own.

So I'm not quite sure how you got your signed off unless the signer was a friend

doesn't the april 2013 amendment to part p of the regs (england) change that? not trying to be contrary here .... just asking a genuine question

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And your not allowed to do it yourself and get someone to test it, as your not meant(the electrician) to test anyone's work but your own.

So I'm not quite sure how you got your signed off unless the signer was a friend

(

doesn't the april 2013 amendment to part p of the regs (england) change that? not trying to be contrary here .... just asking a genuine question"
.

You'd think so but as usual they like to complicate it so.... Yes the amendment was meant to do that but the two governing bodies eca.nic have now joined forces and they are not allowing members (which you have to be to be on the part p register) to certify other people's work.

I would go into why the amendment came about but it's way long... Albeit as usual it was a bit of a botched law.... Who'd have guessed

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

And your not allowed to do it yourself and get someone to test it, as your not meant(the electrician) to test anyone's work but your own.

So I'm not quite sure how you got your signed off unless the signer was a friend

(

doesn't the april 2013 amendment to part p of the regs (england) change that? not trying to be contrary here .... just asking a genuine question.

I would go into why the amendment came about but it's way long... Albeit as usual it was a bit of a botched law.... Who'd have guessed"

take it eca is elecsa? where do napit stand on this?

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By *lipperyWhenWet!Couple
over a year ago

Rochester

The OP has been quite for a bit, do we need to phone for help?

Or has hemains blown completely and he can't get back on the net?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Eca and niceic are now one body under elecsa.

There the governing body for the part p register.

What happened was it was never illegal to do your own wiring right from the outset and still isn't today just like the iee wiring is guidance.

So originally the part p came under local building regulations and you could apply to him,so let's say you were doing an extension on your house, he could certify the wiring met regulation but that didn't really work as most building inspector don't know shit about wiring, and they would need a electrician to do a bs 2382 and that's always been... Test your own work only.

And so now there trying to make it right but really there just over complicating it yet again.

The governing body want it like gas where it's actual legal law and everyone except registered people will be shot, no I mean forbidden from doing it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Neutral-Earth short - possibly nipped the cable in the block or the appliance could be faulty.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

As said above I will get a sparky in tomorrow, no big deal.

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

"Eca and niceic are now one body under elecsa.

There the governing body for the part p register.

What happened was it was never illegal to do your own wiring right from the outset and still isn't today just like the iee wiring is guidance.

And so now there trying to make it right but really there just over complicating it yet again.

The governing body want it like gas where it's actual legal law and everyone except registered people will be shot, no I mean forbidden from doing it

2392 (initial verification of new installations)? 2382 is the 17th innit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The OP has been quite for a bit, do we need to phone for help?

Or has hemains blown completely and he can't get back on the net?

"
..I got called a crazed fool the other night for saying don't panic..... And not one person had said anything about the lick it remark

... Right I'm off to the shed to syphon some diesel while having a quick fag

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Eca and niceic are now one body under elecsa.

There the governing body for the part p register.

What happened was it was never illegal to do your own wiring right from the outset and still isn't today just like the iee wiring is guidance.

And so now there trying to make it right but really there just over complicating it yet again.

The governing body want it like gas where it's actual legal law and everyone except registered people will be shot, no I mean forbidden from doing it

2392 (initial verification of new installations)? 2382 is the 17th innit"
lol aye, I got waylayed with the numbers

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By *its_n_piecesCouple
over a year ago

round here, if you go through the lga bc office, after 3 or 4 satisfactory installs, all you have to do is ring them with proir notification of commencement and when they no it's you they say ok and just get you to send the test results in so no bc fee .....strange but true

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"round here, if you go through the lga bc office, after 3 or 4 satisfactory installs, all you have to do is ring them with proir notification of commencement and when they no it's you they say ok and just get you to send the test results in so no bc fee .....strange but true"
.

Yeah I know all counties change with different views but it's odd as one of the main prerogatives of part p is placements of fixtures and routing of cables, none of which show up on a test and inspect

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/11/14 10:49:22]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Cookers up and running! Thanks to a nice sparky from Hull

always some good people on Fab that will help out with advice. Aswell as idiots

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cookers up and running! Thanks to a nice sparky from Hull

always some good people on Fab that will help out with advice. Aswell as idiots

I bet he licked the connections when you weren't looking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cookers up and running! Thanks to a nice sparky from Hull

always some good people on Fab that will help out with advice. Aswell as idiots

"
.

Nice. Bacon butties all round then!.

What was the problem in the end!

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