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Band aid..good cause or making the situation worse?

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon

This is not a personal opinion of mine, just a debate and a discussion we were having this morning over a coffee before work.

Back in the 80's when Geldof and the team released the first band aid record in the hope to rid the world of hunger, some would say they did a fantastic job of raising tens of millions for these countries and fed millions of people.

Others suggest that this whole band aid scheme has done more harm than good as 90% of the money raised gets siphoned of by greedy and corrupt governments, terrorists who control the states and areas where the aid should be going, plus any number of other corrupt bodies (fact)...and the worst part of it all, is that 30 years on from the start of it all, there are even more starving and hungry people in these areas as they have now gone on to have more children who have also grown up and had children who are now dying of starvation themselves.

I completely agree that nobody deserves to die and it breaks my heart to see dying and starving children anywhere in the world, and I would absolutely love to see the end of world hunger, I really really would.

I have no idea what the answer is, or how to fix it, but are they doing more harm than good and unintentionally making the situation worse ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it saved one starving Person then it was a good thing.

More Importantly it brought the scale of the Disaster to the World Stage and made People aware.

Gimp

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"If it saved one starving Person then it was a good thing.

More Importantly it brought the scale of the Disaster to the World Stage and made People aware.

Gimp"

In that context I completely agree with you, one saved person from starving is worth while.

But what if that one saved person has now gone on to have 3 children, all of which are now starving, is that good ?

J.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If it saved one starving Person then it was a good thing.

More Importantly it brought the scale of the Disaster to the World Stage and made People aware.

Gimp

In that context I completely agree with you, one saved person from starving is worth while.

But what if that one saved person has now gone on to have 3 children, all of which are now starving, is that good ?

J."

That Logic could be applied to any situation in life, Why save a Child from a burning building because it may grow up to have Children of its own who get trapped in a burning Building, we do what we can to help in our time, The Future is for others to ponder

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By *itSamCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

Always use em if the cut is bad enough. Makes it better.

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By *itSamCouple
over a year ago

Birmingham

Ohhhh that band aid....

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"If it saved one starving Person then it was a good thing.

More Importantly it brought the scale of the Disaster to the World Stage and made People aware.

Gimp

In that context I completely agree with you, one saved person from starving is worth while.

But what if that one saved person has now gone on to have 3 children, all of which are now starving, is that good ?

J.

That Logic could be applied to any situation in life, Why save a Child from a burning building because it may grow up to have Children of its own who get trapped in a burning Building, we do what we can to help in our time, The Future is for others to ponder"

I'm not quite sure that logic applies in all cases in life, and certainly not in the situation you have suggested.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Undoubtedly we can send food aid and it helps people who are in crisis, but it doesn't fix the underlying issues. All the while we have diseases that kill such as AIDS, MDRTB and malaria and while the west exploits the developing world, people will struggle to pull themselves out of poverty. The money is better spent investing in schemes to promote more reliable farming and long term health goals.

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"Undoubtedly we can send food aid and it helps people who are in crisis, but it doesn't fix the underlying issues. All the while we have diseases that kill such as AIDS, MDRTB and malaria and while the west exploits the developing world, people will struggle to pull themselves out of poverty. The money is better spent investing in schemes to promote more reliable farming and long term health goals.

"

100% agreed.

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)

I see your point but wasn't the intention to raise awareness too and not just about the money.

People throw away so much good food and I do believe it can be put to better use.

Produce past it's sell by date is by no means bad yet supermarkets throw it away. Why not use it to feed the hungry and homeless here.

Instead they look it up in huge bins so those that have nothing cannot scavenge for it.

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By *imply_SensualMan
over a year ago

warrington

One way to look at it is what would have happened if we didn't have the original band aid or the likes of Geldof didn't stick their neck out to try and help?

Those that were starving would have gone on to die, and the world probably would not have known what we know today.

Yes, there is a chance of a self fulfilling prophecy as the people in these areas continue to have children because they aid keeps coming, but awareness around the world has increased by significant amounts too, even regarding the corrupt governments, so there are organisations that work to prevent the aid money from gong into the wrong hands.

So for me, it has been positive, albeit with potential negative consequences, but the more people know about a problem, the more likely it can be tackled.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I see your point but wasn't the intention to raise awareness too and not just about the money.

People throw away so much good food and I do believe it can be put to better use.

Produce past it's sell by date is by no means bad yet supermarkets throw it away. Why not use it to feed the hungry and homeless here.

Instead they look it up in huge bins so those that have nothing cannot scavenge for it.

"

You can get arrested for 'stealing' discarded food. it's an utterly fucked up society we live in

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?"

If 90%+ of it gets siphoned off by corrupt governments and terrorists who control these areas? You think that's not a downside?

There is no downside to raising awareness.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?"

I'm glad you asked as I'm also struggling with that logic. Similarly I'm not sure how any right thinking person can say it made the situation worse

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

If 90%+ of it gets siphoned off by corrupt governments and terrorists who control these areas? You think that's not a downside?

There is no downside to raising awareness."

You have claimed this to be a fact. So 90% of money raised by live aid, band aid etc was syphoned off by governments? Are you sure about that?

As for the claim it's funding terrorism - are yiu sure about that?

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

I'm glad you asked as I'm also struggling with that logic. Similarly I'm not sure how any right thinking person can say it made the situation worse "

I'm not personally saying it has made it worse, but if one starving child who received food through these schemes 30 years ago has grown up, had a number of children, who themselves may have had a number of children, all of which are now starving, is 10 or 15 starving children and adults a worse situation than 1 child ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sure how relvent this is to the debate but how does that saying go.

Give a man a fish and he can feed his family for a week.

Teach him how to fish and give him the equipment and he can feed them for a lifetime.

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

If 90%+ of it gets siphoned off by corrupt governments and terrorists who control these areas? You think that's not a downside?

There is no downside to raising awareness.

You have claimed this to be a fact. So 90% of money raised by live aid, band aid etc was syphoned off by governments? Are you sure about that?

As for the claim it's funding terrorism - are yiu sure about that?"

These were facts that were provided by the news and media, I can't personally verify them myself.

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"Not sure how relvent this is to the debate but how does that saying go.

Give a man a fish and he can feed his family for a week.

Teach him how to fish and give him the equipment and he can feed them for a lifetime. "

Very true.

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

If 90%+ of it gets siphoned off by corrupt governments and terrorists who control these areas? You think that's not a downside?

There is no downside to raising awareness.

You have claimed this to be a fact. So 90% of money raised by live aid, band aid etc was syphoned off by governments? Are you sure about that?

As for the claim it's funding terrorism - are yiu sure about that?"

And if you read my post, I never said or suggested that band aid were funding terrorism, merely terrorists who control a lot of these areas also control the money and aid going in and out of the area, and subsequently siphon money off for themselves, surely you must read the papers and watch the news ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

I'm glad you asked as I'm also struggling with that logic. Similarly I'm not sure how any right thinking person can say it made the situation worse

I'm not personally saying it has made it worse, but if one starving child who received food through these schemes 30 years ago has grown up, had a number of children, who themselves may have had a number of children, all of which are now starving, is 10 or 15 starving children and adults a worse situation than 1 child ?"

Ahh i love these Mathematical Theories, Ok heres my deduction, If one starving child grows up and has a number of children who starve it ends there, Dead Children do not grow up to have Children who starve because they are Dead.

And i didnt even need an Abacus for that Algorithm

Prof Gimp

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon

Take a look at this, just one example:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255160/Ethiopian-Band-Aid-money-used-rebels-fight-government-buying-food.html

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

I'm glad you asked as I'm also struggling with that logic. Similarly I'm not sure how any right thinking person can say it made the situation worse

I'm not personally saying it has made it worse, but if one starving child who received food through these schemes 30 years ago has grown up, had a number of children, who themselves may have had a number of children, all of which are now starving, is 10 or 15 starving children and adults a worse situation than 1 child ?

Ahh i love these Mathematical Theories, Ok heres my deduction, If one starving child grows up and has a number of children who starve it ends there, Dead Children do not grow up to have Children who starve because they are Dead.

And i didnt even need an Abacus for that Algorithm

Prof Gimp "

Check you out with your math skills, are you secretly Carol Vodermam?

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)

The media fabricates and exaggerates a lot so you can't belive everything you read.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The media fabricates and exaggerates a lot so you can't belive everything you read."

That may be a slight exaggeration

Gimpus

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

If 90%+ of it gets siphoned off by corrupt governments and terrorists who control these areas? You think that's not a downside?

There is no downside to raising awareness.

You have claimed this to be a fact. So 90% of money raised by live aid, band aid etc was syphoned off by governments? Are you sure about that?

As for the claim it's funding terrorism - are yiu sure about that?"

Yes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255160/Ethiopian-Band-Aid-money-used-rebels-fight-government-buying-food.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

I'm glad you asked as I'm also struggling with that logic. Similarly I'm not sure how any right thinking person can say it made the situation worse

I'm not personally saying it has made it worse, but if one starving child who received food through these schemes 30 years ago has grown up, had a number of children, who themselves may have had a number of children, all of which are now starving, is 10 or 15 starving children and adults a worse situation than 1 child ?"

Maybe we should kill the poor? Save them the upset of starving to death

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

I'm glad you asked as I'm also struggling with that logic. Similarly I'm not sure how any right thinking person can say it made the situation worse

I'm not personally saying it has made it worse, but if one starving child who received food through these schemes 30 years ago has grown up, had a number of children, who themselves may have had a number of children, all of which are now starving, is 10 or 15 starving children and adults a worse situation than 1 child ?

Maybe we should kill the poor? Save them the upset of starving to death"

You know that's not what I meant, said or suggested at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

I'm glad you asked as I'm also struggling with that logic. Similarly I'm not sure how any right thinking person can say it made the situation worse

I'm not personally saying it has made it worse, but if one starving child who received food through these schemes 30 years ago has grown up, had a number of children, who themselves may have had a number of children, all of which are now starving, is 10 or 15 starving children and adults a worse situation than 1 child ?

Maybe we should kill the poor? Save them the upset of starving to death

You know that's not what I meant, said or suggested at all."

No it's exactly what you are suggesting. You have offered no solution, no alternative just the argument that we shouldn't have helped them

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

To be absolutely honest I think it like most food, water and health aid to Africa and Asia is a bad idea.

Ebola like AIDS comes from contact with jungle carnivores. This contact like the droughts and famines are caused by pressure on the environment due to the exponential growth in human population. Like it or not the more we intervene to keep people alive that would otherwise die because the region they live in is unable to support the population the more pressure we put on the planet as a whole and the greater a price our children will eventually have to pay for our charity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

If 90%+ of it gets siphoned off by corrupt governments and terrorists who control these areas? You think that's not a downside?

There is no downside to raising awareness.

You have claimed this to be a fact. So 90% of money raised by live aid, band aid etc was syphoned off by governments? Are you sure about that?

As for the claim it's funding terrorism - are yiu sure about that?

Yes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1255160/Ethiopian-Band-Aid-money-used-rebels-fight-government-buying-food.html"

Well it makes a nice change from the Daily Mail stories that all Muslims want to blow us up I guess.

I've been to Ethiopia and seen food and medical aid being distributed to those in need. I can't quantify it, that's not my job, but I've seen the real difference it's made to people. That percentage looks like complete bullshit to me.

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

I'm glad you asked as I'm also struggling with that logic. Similarly I'm not sure how any right thinking person can say it made the situation worse

I'm not personally saying it has made it worse, but if one starving child who received food through these schemes 30 years ago has grown up, had a number of children, who themselves may have had a number of children, all of which are now starving, is 10 or 15 starving children and adults a worse situation than 1 child ?

Maybe we should kill the poor? Save them the upset of starving to death

You know that's not what I meant, said or suggested at all.

No it's exactly what you are suggesting. You have offered no solution, no alternative just the argument that we shouldn't have helped them"

Well you clearly can't read then can you and I never for one minute said we shouldn't help them, please get your facts correct and lets get that straight right now.

And if I had a solution to end world hunger, don't you think that I might just have shared it by now?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is not a personal opinion of mine, just a debate and a discussion we were having this morning over a coffee before work.

Back in the 80's when Geldof and the team released the first band aid record in the hope to rid the world of hunger, some would say they did a fantastic job of raising tens of millions for these countries and fed millions of people.

Others suggest that this whole band aid scheme has done more harm than good as 90% of the money raised gets siphoned of by greedy and corrupt governments, terrorists who control the states and areas where the aid should be going, plus any number of other corrupt bodies (fact)...and the worst part of it all, is that 30 years on from the start of it all, there are even more starving and hungry people in these areas as they have now gone on to have more children who have also grown up and had children who are now dying of starvation themselves.

I completely agree that nobody deserves to die and it breaks my heart to see dying and starving children anywhere in the world, and I would absolutely love to see the end of world hunger, I really really would.

I have no idea what the answer is, or how to fix it, but are they doing more harm than good and unintentionally making the situation worse ?"

Generally aid makes matters worse-due to corruption mainly, and un balances local economies. Emergency aid for sudden events like floods, etc is proper and neighbourly but the aid system now does not do much good.

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon

Can we please just get one thing clear and straight, I am in no way against any type of aid or support for anyone anywhere in the world, and I firmly believe that nobody anywhere in the world should go hungry in this day and age.

I actively support and donate to local and international charities on a monthly basis.

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By *om Tom 1969Man
over a year ago

liverpool

Ah yes, Band Aid, I can still remember the images,, the gaunt face, the haunted look, the deep set eyes and the flies around the mouth, but enough of Bob Geldof..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what they realy need is condoms. would rather give my money to the cats home.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ah yes, Band Aid, I can still remember the images,, the gaunt face, the haunted look, the deep set eyes and the flies around the mouth, but enough of Bob Geldof.."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

I'm glad you asked as I'm also struggling with that logic. Similarly I'm not sure how any right thinking person can say it made the situation worse

I'm not personally saying it has made it worse, but if one starving child who received food through these schemes 30 years ago has grown up, had a number of children, who themselves may have had a number of children, all of which are now starving, is 10 or 15 starving children and adults a worse situation than 1 child ?

Maybe we should kill the poor? Save them the upset of starving to death

You know that's not what I meant, said or suggested at all.

No it's exactly what you are suggesting. You have offered no solution, no alternative just the argument that we shouldn't have helped them

Well you clearly can't read then can you and I never for one minute said we shouldn't help them, please get your facts correct and lets get that straight right now.

And if I had a solution to end world hunger, don't you think that I might just have shared it by now?"

You have repeatedly argued rgat it made thibgs worse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can we please just get one thing clear and straight, I am in no way against any type of aid or support for anyone anywhere in the world, and I firmly believe that nobody anywhere in the world should go hungry in this day and age.

I actively support and donate to local and international charities on a monthly basis."

So you are arguing a viewpoint that you don't actually agree with?

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"Can we please just get one thing clear and straight, I am in no way against any type of aid or support for anyone anywhere in the world, and I firmly believe that nobody anywhere in the world should go hungry in this day and age.

I actively support and donate to local and international charities on a monthly basis.

So you are arguing a viewpoint that you don't actually agree with?"

I think the importance of actually reading a post and taking note of what has been said becomes very important.

My question was "have we" not "we have" made it worse is probably the single most important part of what I was asking.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Maybe the answer is to add permanent male and female contraceptives to international famine relief food and water aid...

However I cant see a single major religion agreeing to this, I expect that there would be an international outcry at the idea and it would be labelled as a breach of the UN charter on Human Rights and outlawed by international law...

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By *om Tom 1969Man
over a year ago

liverpool

Do people still really believe that sending condoms to Africa will solve their woes? Education Education Education...........

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe the answer is to add permanent male and female contraceptives to international famine relief food and water aid...

However I cant see a single major religion agreeing to this, I expect that there would be an international outcry at the idea and it would be labelled as a breach of the UN charter on Human Rights and outlawed by international law... "

Considering your suggestion is abhorrent and akin to ethnic cleansing iitthinkit woukd disgust many people.

Out of interest which religion are you singling out? Presumably Catholicism?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Do people still really believe that sending condoms to Africa will solve their woes? Education Education Education..........."

If by that you mean educating people in the use of condoms and teaching them that contraception isn't a sin - I'm all for that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do people still really believe that sending condoms to Africa will solve their woes? Education Education Education...........

If by that you mean educating people in the use of condoms and teaching them that contraception isn't a sin - I'm all for that."

Cant feed em, don't breed em, simples.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Charities are companies the money never really gets where it is needed,I had Red Cross knocking at my door the other week asking for £3 a month,so as we were talking I thought to ask the lad how much he was on an hour ? He replies £8.50 an hour lmao so I came to the conclusion my £3 a month for a year barley covers that lads wage for a 4 hour shift bottom line people are still starving while governments spend billions on new wars !!

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By *om Tom 1969Man
over a year ago

liverpool


"Do people still really believe that sending condoms to Africa will solve their woes? Education Education Education...........

If by that you mean educating people in the use of condoms and teaching them that contraception isn't a sin - I'm all for that."

No, not at all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problems lies within corruption.

In an ideal world corruption wouldn't exist and the majority of global issues (that us westerner 's) don't know about/are ignorant too would be solved.

Credit for trying.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do people still really believe that sending condoms to Africa will solve their woes? Education Education Education..........."

It's hilarious in it's niavity isn't it

The route cause is clear for all - the obscene inequality of the distribution of wealth around the world.

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By *om Tom 1969Man
over a year ago

liverpool

I'm all for helping out my fellow men/women and have always donated to charity through my wages. But it does annoy me that whatever crisis that there seems to be in the undevelpoed worl seems to ge left to the the people to solve and government seems to stand back and allow it to happen,,,yet when there is the slightest problem in oil producing countries, we can pump billions into military action and funding of militia/freedom fighters or whatever handle that the media gives to them.

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By *ratty_DamselWoman
over a year ago

Greater London

If it saves one person it's worth it.

If it raises awareness of Ebola, it's worth it.

If it shames the worlds governments into proper funding, it's worth it.

If it pressures big pharma to do further research and share findings, it's worth it.

Shame it's taken so long to hit the West for action to be taken......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm all for helping out my fellow men/women and have always donated to charity through my wages. But it does annoy me that whatever crisis that there seems to be in the undevelpoed worl seems to ge left to the the people to solve and government seems to stand back and allow it to happen,,,yet when there is the slightest problem in oil producing countries, we can pump billions into military action and funding of militia/freedom fighters or whatever handle that the media gives to them."

I tend to disagree a little. As a nation we do send aid. We do seem to avoid conflict within these areas but, we have entered as 'peace keepers' to many nations. It was only recently that Blair wanted to topple Mugabe and his regime, it is, or rather should be a global concern and the public are never keen for conflict, a quote I often hear is "not our problem", but that is a terribly ignorant thought. I had a close friend who served in Rwanda as peace keeper. Some atrocious things occur that we don't know about.

Education is key. Until the earths population are on the same page, greed and the struggle for power has gone, we will have regimes that are horrifying.

It's too easy to blame the government, and the 'wealthy', end of the day it is you and I that want change, until we all want change then everything will stay the same

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If people actually watched the reports made by live aid, comic relief etc, they would see that a big effort is made in educating the people and helping to make themselves self sufficient with regards to clean water,practical first aid, safe sex etc. It isn't just about throwing grain and money at them.

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

I think it is a good thing. Because at Christmas in pubs when it's playing I like to put one hand on my ear and sing into my bottle of beer pretending I am George Michael.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

You can get arrested for 'stealing' discarded food. it's an utterly fucked up society we live in"

this i agree with

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By *om Tom 1969Man
over a year ago

liverpool


"I'm all for helping out my fellow men/women and have always donated to charity through my wages. But it does annoy me that whatever crisis that there seems to be in the undevelpoed worl seems to ge left to the the people to solve and government seems to stand back and allow it to happen,,,yet when there is the slightest problem in oil producing countries, we can pump billions into military action and funding of militia/freedom fighters or whatever handle that the media gives to them.

I tend to disagree a little. As a nation we do send aid. We do seem to avoid conflict within these areas but, we have entered as 'peace keepers' to many nations. It was only recently that Blair wanted to topple Mugabe and his regime, it is, or rather should be a global concern and the public are never keen for conflict, a quote I often hear is "not our problem", but that is a terribly ignorant thought. I had a close friend who served in Rwanda as peace keeper. Some atrocious things occur that we don't know about.

Education is key. Until the earths population are on the same page, greed and the struggle for power has gone, we will have regimes that are horrifying.

It's too easy to blame the government, and the 'wealthy', end of the day it is you and I that want change, until we all want change then everything will stay the same"

Not sure how we disagree; I agree with most of your comment; please read my previous comment on Eduaction x 3

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If people actually watched the reports made by live aid, comic relief etc, they would see that a big effort is made in educating the people and helping to make themselves self sufficient with regards to clean water,practical first aid, safe sex etc. It isn't just about throwing grain and money at them. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm all for helping out my fellow men/women and have always donated to charity through my wages. But it does annoy me that whatever crisis that there seems to be in the undevelpoed worl seems to ge left to the the people to solve and government seems to stand back and allow it to happen,,,yet when there is the slightest problem in oil producing countries, we can pump billions into military action and funding of militia/freedom fighters or whatever handle that the media gives to them.

I tend to disagree a little. As a nation we do send aid. We do seem to avoid conflict within these areas but, we have entered as 'peace keepers' to many nations. It was only recently that Blair wanted to topple Mugabe and his regime, it is, or rather should be a global concern and the public are never keen for conflict, a quote I often hear is "not our problem", but that is a terribly ignorant thought. I had a close friend who served in Rwanda as peace keeper. Some atrocious things occur that we don't know about.

Education is key. Until the earths population are on the same page, greed and the struggle for power has gone, we will have regimes that are horrifying.

It's too easy to blame the government, and the 'wealthy', end of the day it is you and I that want change, until we all want change then everything will stay the same

Not sure how we disagree; I agree with most of your comment; please read my previous comment on Eduaction x 3"

Only the blame of government not doing their bit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it saved people and helped them live better lives I am all for it ..

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Whilst some campaigns focus on immediate crisis type feedings, others deliver long term infrastructure and systems to help people care for themselves. If there is an ongoing supply of necessary stock, so that equipment becomes useless as parts can't be found, then it remains a longer term better option.

Sometimes stomachs need feeding to prevent death today and tomorrow so food shipped in is ideal.

Cash to corrupt dictators is not the option.

Part of the UK house price bubble is fuelled by overseas buyers who grabbed money whilst others starved. So it is wrong to give money if accountability is low.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Whilst some campaigns focus on immediate crisis type feedings, others deliver long term infrastructure and systems to help people care for themselves. If there is an ongoing supply of necessary stock, so that equipment becomes useless as parts can't be found, then it remains a longer term better option.

Sometimes stomachs need feeding to prevent death today and tomorrow so food shipped in is ideal.

Cash to corrupt dictators is not the option.

Part of the UK house price bubble is fuelled by overseas buyers who grabbed money whilst others starved. So it is wrong to give money if accountability is low."

You can give a man a fish and feed him for a day, you can teach a man to fish and feed him for the rest of his life

Fishing isn't always practical

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

You can get arrested for 'stealing' discarded food. it's an utterly fucked up society we live in

this i agree with

"

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

[Removed by poster at 11/11/14 12:35:36]

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Maybe the answer is to add permanent male and female contraceptives to international famine relief food and water aid...

However I cant see a single major religion agreeing to this, I expect that there would be an international outcry at the idea and it would be labelled as a breach of the UN charter on Human Rights and outlawed by international law...

Considering your suggestion is abhorrent and akin to ethnic cleansing iitthinkit woukd disgust many people.

Out of interest which religion are you singling out? Presumably Catholicism? "

No I was not singling out any religion and as it happens I am Catholic and had a very good Catholic education. However I was thinking about Christianity, Islam and Hinduism in particular as I believe that these three faiths account for about 70% of the world population, and as all the above religions have vocal and active factions that are violently opposed to any form of birth control.

As for your comment about ethnic cleansing I think you need to gain a little perspective.

Firstly I am not suggesting that anyone be killed, I am suggesting that when a region is unable to support its population that the population should be given a choice, accept food aid that has permanent contraceptives added to it to reduce the population in the region or starve. That like it or not leaves the starving to make their own choice.

Further here are the real results of famine relief:

In 1950 the world population was about 2.5 billion it is now over 7 billion. The vast majority of that growth has been in Asia and Africa, the places that are now unable to support their populations.

As a result we now seeing a massive migration from Africa and Asia to Europe and Australia. With countless thousands of Africans being enslaved by Arabs, being robbed and abandoned to die in the Sahara and drowning in the Mediterranean while trying to reach Europe. At the same time similar tragedies happening in and around the Indian Ocean, South China Sea, the Malayan and Indonesian Islands and into Timor Sea as Indians and Bangladeshi's attempt to get to Australia. All this is happening while the whole of Africa and Asia destabilises and is being engulfed in war.

That seems like one hell of a price to pay so that we can claim to do what we can to help the starving in Africa and Asia.

Of course the more we feed and water them the more they will reproduce and the more they will require to feed and water them. At what point do we stop feeding them? Maybe its your position that we only stop when we have nothing to eat!

As I said I think you need to get some perspective.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Maybe the answer is to add permanent male and female contraceptives to international famine relief food and water aid...

However I cant see a single major religion agreeing to this, I expect that there would be an international outcry at the idea and it would be labelled as a breach of the UN charter on Human Rights and outlawed by international law...

Considering your suggestion is abhorrent and akin to ethnic cleansing iitthinkit woukd disgust many people.

Out of interest which religion are you singling out? Presumably Catholicism?

No I was not singling out any religion and as it happens I am Catholic and had a very good Catholic education. However I was thinking about Christianity, Islam and Hinduism in particular as I believe that these three faiths account for about 70% of the world population, and as all the above religions have vocal and active factions that are violently opposed to any form of birth control.

As for your comment about ethnic cleansing I think you need to gain a little perspective.

Firstly I am not suggesting that anyone be killed, I am suggesting that when a region is unable to support its population that the population should be given a choice, accept food aid that has permanent contraceptives added to it to reduce the population in the region or starve. That like it or not leaves the starving to make their own choice.

Further here are the real results of famine relief:

In 1950 the world population was about 2.5 billion it is now over 7 billion. The vast majority of that growth has been in Asia and Africa, the places that are now unable to support their populations.

As a result we now seeing a massive migration from Africa and Asia to Europe and Australia. With countless thousands of Africans being enslaved by Arabs, being robbed and abandoned to die in the Sahara and drowning in the Mediterranean while trying to reach Europe. At the same time similar tragedies happening in and around the Indian Ocean, South China Sea, the Malayan and Indonesian Islands and into Timor Sea as Indians and Bangladeshi's attempt to get to Australia. All this is happening while the whole of Africa and Asia destabilises and is being engulfed in war.

That seems like one hell of a price to pay so that we can claim to do what we can to help the starving in Africa and Asia.

Of course the more we feed and water them the more they will reproduce and the more they will require to feed and water them. At what point do we stop feeding them? Maybe its your position that we only stop when we have nothing to eat!

As I said I think you need to get some perspective."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

That Logic could be applied to any situation in life, Why save a Child from a burning building because it may grow up to have Children of its own who get trapped in a burning Building, we do what we can to help in our time, The Future is for others to ponder"

Sarah x

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I think there are a lot of problems in the world and I also believe a lot are probably solvable with enough resources and will. I further believe that self interest will prevent a lot of this from happening, as they seem to have done over the ages.

I think the song itself is a bit meh, though. My status update of this morning was:

"I'd give more to charity just to halt another re-release of Band Aid. Some of the artists are now more famous for being in that than anything else."

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By *adgodCouple
over a year ago

Greensburg

Its always good to try and help those who are less fortunate. The ability to do so is part of what can make humans special.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"Its always good to try and help those who are less fortunate."

Is it?

I suspect that the truth is it is always more self gratifying to do what one feels is good in the short term than to consider the long-term ramification of short-term fixes.

As for what makes humans special, I would further suggest that that is our ability to refuse to believe the patently obvious truth. Having said that I accept that many need to support charities that are actively working against their own and their childrens self interests to bolster their egos and self worth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its always good to try and help those who are less fortunate.

Is it?

I suspect that the truth is it is always more self gratifying to do what one feels is good in the short term than to consider the long-term ramification of short-term fixes.

As for what makes humans special, I would further suggest that that is our ability to refuse to believe the patently obvious truth. Having said that I accept that many need to support charities that are actively working against their own and their childrens self interests to bolster their egos and self worth."

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By *adgodCouple
over a year ago

Greensburg

Cynical view. You are entitled to it, but we dont share it or agree with it. To each their own.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Where is the downside to raising money and awareness for a good cause?

If 90%+ of it gets siphoned off by corrupt governments and terrorists who control these areas? You think that's not a downside?

There is no downside to raising awareness."

well we cannot be other than aware of disaster in the world with media coverage

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a good cause but it's beating it's futile head against a wall. free market economics ALWAYS requires poverty!.

It's fundamental to the system working that scarcity is perceived and that poverty exists, if it didn't the entire system would collapse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

makes me wonder if the money that's donate really gets to the people that need it some of the counties where these disaster and famine are have corrupt governments anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nearly all governments are corrupt it shocks me that people are surprised at corruption.

Look no further than our own, or Italy or usa or France.

It really doesn't matter how much money you throw at Africa to "cure" poverty it would just pop up somewhere else, it's fundamental to free market philosophy and is caused by it, that's why it never gets "cured"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's enough media at our fingertips to see what pain there is and how we can help/donate. 30 years ago it was magical to see the news that stars were arriving at a studio for no reason then 24 hours later it was all about aid needed now! The shock of the pictures was eye opening.

Today we have press releases about how much they are looking forward to do this. Its a PR move by all. If not, just get in there record it then sell it.

Ok I'm grumpy tonight but the combined wealth of some artists could buy a country such is the rich poor divide. Please give to charity but dont think you have to buy a track to do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't bother is my advise, your just self perpetuating tragedy with a grandiose level of voyeurism.

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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago

East Manchester

What we do when we hold these charity collection's either on a small local scale or an international one is create a dependency, the recipients of our donations will only look to others to bail them out of the situation and not get themselves out of their problem.

My local hospital had a "friends of" organisation which was set up to provide the "little extras" for patients and staff that the budget wouldn't stretch to.

After about 5 years of fundraising the hospital trust management started to take it for granted and redeployed money away from providing the bare essentials to other areas, they spent the fundraisers cash on providing the basics which were once provided by the budget so they could fund their vanity projects.

Geldof for all his posturing about helping others laid an enormous guilt trip on the nation and raised an enormous amount of money, but, he didn't solve the problem, in fact he only made it worse by ensuring the countries concerned continued to be dependant on overseas aid.

The latest Band Aid is nothing more than shameless self publicity to raise the profile of those taking part.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What we do when we hold these charity collection's either on a small local scale or an international one is create a dependency, the recipients of our donations will only look to others to bail them out of the situation and not get themselves out of their problem.

My local hospital had a "friends of" organisation which was set up to provide the "little extras" for patients and staff that the budget wouldn't stretch to.

After about 5 years of fundraising the hospital trust management started to take it for granted and redeployed money away from providing the bare essentials to other areas, they spent the fundraisers cash on providing the basics which were once provided by the budget so they could fund their vanity projects.

Geldof for all his posturing about helping others laid an enormous guilt trip on the nation and raised an enormous amount of money, but, he didn't solve the problem, in fact he only made it worse by ensuring the countries concerned continued to be dependant on overseas aid.

The latest Band Aid is nothing more than shameless self publicity to raise the profile of those taking part.

"

During the crisis in Ethiopia, there was sufficient food within Ethiopia to feed everybody. What there wasn't was a government/ populace willing to do anything about it, well why would they when rich westerners will do it for them.

Having visited these countries, there's a huge culture of dependency. Partly perpetuated by the countries giving 'aid'. When you see just how many NGO workers are riding around in brand new land cruisers and buying kellogs cornflakes at £7 a boz you realise where your money is really going.

Add in the grain/seed donations of strains that are effectively infertile, so they don't produce seed for the next crop, meaning there's no choice the following year but to buy more, or the infrastructure schemes, which are conditional on the work going to a contractor from the donar country, feel good factor gained, but the money goes straight back to the economy of the sonar, not the recipient of the 'aid'.

If you've not guessed, I'm a little sceptical.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No I think you put the point very well, it matters not how much charity you give, bill gates receives back three times what he donates, hence why the rich keep getting richer.

It's built into the system.

Instead of giving money I donate time as it harder to manipulate back to the top of the pyramid.

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

A couple more things to throw into the mix.

A few years ago there was a report released listing how much money the UK gave to countries. It also listed what that country was spending the money on. Example, we were giving £20 million to fund education. The president was spending £60 million on a new palace. Another country we gave a simular amount for water treatment and the church was spending £100 million on a new cathedral....

Many charities have so much money that they give higher ranking members of staff interest free mortgages...

Finally, one charity is stating that 19000 children a day die due to starvation/drought.

If you could save those children that would add up to over 69 million in ten years. There is no way that those numbers are sustainable...

Yes you can teach a man to fish but what happens when he has depleted the fish stocks? The same with water, you can keep digging wells but you are eventually taking water from the village further down stream...

It is a sad fact but certain environments are only able to support a small number... This is why animals migrate and people in these countries were often nomadic...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a good cause but it's beating it's futile head against a wall. free market economics ALWAYS requires poverty!.

It's fundamental to the system working that scarcity is perceived and that poverty exists, if it didn't the entire system would collapse."

Keep it quiet though. People might start to grumble.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a good cause but it's beating it's futile head against a wall. free market economics ALWAYS requires poverty!.

It's fundamental to the system working that scarcity is perceived and that poverty exists, if it didn't the entire system would collapse.

"

Sarah x

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

I've not read the entire thread but quoting statistics from the Daily Mail doesn't prove anything. They are notorious for using figures in a 'creative' way to 'prove' emotive stories.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've not read the entire thread but quoting statistics from the Daily Mail doesn't prove anything. They are notorious for using figures in a 'creative' way to 'prove' emotive stories. "

There's no need to resort to quoting the hate mail

Look at India, UK sends millions in aid each year, yet they have a space programme! Aid is a political tool and is used as such.

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By *njames OP   Man
over a year ago

Swindon


"I've not read the entire thread but quoting statistics from the Daily Mail doesn't prove anything. They are notorious for using figures in a 'creative' way to 'prove' emotive stories.

There's no need to resort to quoting the hate mail

Look at India, UK sends millions in aid each year, yet they have a space programme! Aid is a political tool and is used as such."

Figures quoted by the government suggest that we give around 986 million to India in aid, India are also very proud of their 2 billion space program and their 1 billion military program, so I would tend to agree with you there, this aid money could be much better spent elsewhere.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it raises awareness and a portion of the money goes to the right cause, that's better than nothing. Is the money being maximised? Probably not.

But at least he's keen to get the debate going and make some positive changes. There are very needy people / groups in this country, who would undoubtedly benefit from money, but the government chooses to help several countries as well - it's always gonna cause controversy.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge


"I've not read the entire thread but quoting statistics from the Daily Mail doesn't prove anything. They are notorious for using figures in a 'creative' way to 'prove' emotive stories.

There's no need to resort to quoting the hate mail

Look at India, UK sends millions in aid each year, yet they have a space programme! Aid is a political tool and is used as such."

The thread title and the quoted reference to the Dailly Mail was what I was focusing on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ahh, fair doos, I'd not noticed the quote.

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