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Our Next War

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

At this time of remembering the fallen of past conflicts I note that this weekend the US announced 1,500 more troops are being dispatched to the middle east.

Our pilots are already overtly involved and no doubt our special forces are covertly involved.

It's sad to think we may be slipping deeper into an 'unwinnable' war which one day will give us more young men and women who we sadly remember on 11th November.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

yes indeed, the human race never learns that war is cruel and such a waste of life.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"yes indeed, the human race never learns that war is cruel and such a waste of life.

"

Sadly you're right.

With freedom comes responsibility. Remembering is important for two main reasons. Respecting the sacrifice of others and learning from the loss and experience.

I know the world is a complicated place, but the more I 'remember' the less I back war.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes indeed, the human race never learns that war is cruel and such a waste of life.

"

so very true..i just wish everyone would make love and not war

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

War is an evil thing and I have said before no one 'wins' there are just those who 'lose less'. But apart from the shame of the totally illegal Iraq war that Tony Bliar pulled us into against everyone's wishes and common sense (and for which we are still seeing the fallout) I believe this country should stand tall and be proud of its defence of itself as a nation, our values and our willingness to go to the aid of others being attacked. It is those who CAUSE wars that are to be condemned not those who have to defend themselves or take part.

We DO remember our Fallen and we DO take care of those injured in mind and body and we DO have the finest military in the world. And I remember my mates and shed a tear but I am proud as hell of who we are, what we do and how we do it even when we DO have to go to that evil thing called 'war'.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

We are already in the midst of WWIII - it just hasn't been given that title yet. With so much fighting and unrest across the world we live under sanctions and surveillance and in an ever-ready state.

One hundred years on from the Great War we are now facing the war that comes from after effects of that war.

I don't support war and I am essentially a pacifist. However, I think there are times you have to fight to defend others and yourselves. I also believe that we never truly know the reasons why we are fighting.

The lesson I took from WWI was an understanding that Tommy and Fritz both believed they were defending their country. Both believed they were the oppressed, aggrieved party. Both believed God was on their side. Both were being pushed around the theatre of war by generals and politicians.

I thank those who give their strength and sometimes their lives in these fights. I grieve for those civilians who are casualties of the wars surrounding them. I use Remembrance Sunday and Armistice Day to give a prayer that one day we will all know peace.

The white poppy is rarely seen these days but I used to wear both the red and the white together.

Peace and love to you all.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"War is an evil thing and I have said before no one 'wins' there are just those who 'lose less'. But apart from the shame of the totally illegal Iraq war that Tony Bliar pulled us into against everyone's wishes and common sense (and for which we are still seeing the fallout) I believe this country should stand tall and be proud of its defence of itself as a nation, our values and our willingness to go to the aid of others being attacked. It is those who CAUSE wars that are to be condemned not those who have to defend themselves or take part.

We DO remember our Fallen and we DO take care of those injured in mind and body and we DO have the finest military in the world. And I remember my mates and shed a tear but I am proud as hell of who we are, what we do and how we do it even when we DO have to go to that evil thing called 'war'."

Well said.

I agree with most of your points. We will be dealing with the fallout of the Iraq War for decades.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes indeed, the human race never learns that war is cruel and such a waste of life.

"
Human nature we never learn and never will till its to late.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"We are already in the midst of WWIII - it just hasn't been given that title yet. With so much fighting and unrest across the world we live under sanctions and surveillance and in an ever-ready state.

One hundred years on from the Great War we are now facing the war that comes from after effects of that war.

I don't support war and I am essentially a pacifist. However, I think there are times you have to fight to defend others and yourselves. I also believe that we never truly know the reasons why we are fighting.

The lesson I took from WWI was an understanding that Tommy and Fritz both believed they were defending their country. Both believed they were the oppressed, aggrieved party. Both believed God was on their side. Both were being pushed around the theatre of war by generals and politicians.

I thank those who give their strength and sometimes their lives in these fights. I grieve for those civilians who are casualties of the wars surrounding them. I use Remembrance Sunday and Armistice Day to give a prayer that one day we will all know peace.

The white poppy is rarely seen these days but I used to wear both the red and the white together.

Peace and love to you all.

"

Great post Lickety. I agree that WW3 has been raging for quite some time now. I also agree that very few really know why we are fighting.

I think the idea that we will all one day know peace is over optimistic. A very public alien landing would help the human race put aside it's petty differences, short of that I'm afraid they'll always be some people attempting to control the resources or property of others.

Sadly for many the white poppy has gone the same way as hope for world peace.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

War is never right, but it sometimes necessary, and usually inevitable!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"War is never right, but it sometimes necessary, and usually inevitable! "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Licketysplits, what a very well written post. I admired what you wrote & believe in. Very moving.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not exactly a pro war person, in fact I could probably be described as a subversive and i could give you a good argument for the real reason most of the wars in the last 200 years have been fought including the middle East.

And although I've currently got friends and relatives in uniform I'm probably one of the few people that think the middle East conflicts are one of our most honourable fights. You could probably argue about how we've gone about it but let no one be in doubt that the fight against fundamental islamists is in my opinion more crucial than the fight against Nazi fascism.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'm not exactly a pro war person, in fact I could probably be described as a subversive and i could give you a good argument for the real reason most of the wars in the last 200 years have been fought including the middle East.

And although I've currently got friends and relatives in uniform I'm probably one of the few people that think the middle East conflicts are one of our most honourable fights. You could probably argue about how we've gone about it but let no one be in doubt that the fight against fundamental islamists is in my opinion more crucial than the fight against Nazi fascism."

You really believe ISIL is more of a threat to us the nazi Germany was?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

You really believe ISIL is more of a threat to us the nazi Germany was?"

No one thought Hitler was a threat in the early 1930s. In fact most people thought he was a joke. Some joker that boy ....

So yes ISIL is more of a threat because their Jihadist doctrine is infecting young British Muslims angered by what Israel is doing to Palestinian Muslims and therefore open to vengeful preaching and unless it is stamped out it will spread severe problems here in Britain.

One might argue that the biggest threat to world peace is in fact Israel but I doubt we will be restarting the War of 1947 and 1948 ....

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

... "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not exactly a pro war person, in fact I could probably be described as a subversive and i could give you a good argument for the real reason most of the wars in the last 200 years have been fought including the middle East.

And although I've currently got friends and relatives in uniform I'm probably one of the few people that think the middle East conflicts are one of our most honourable fights. You could probably argue about how we've gone about it but let no one be in doubt that the fight against fundamental islamists is in my opinion more crucial than the fight against Nazi fascism.

You really believe ISIL is more of a threat to us the nazi Germany was?"
.

Absolutely.

You could hardly say Hitler was hell bent on destroying the world as he was content in the knowledge that 40 virgins awaited him.

Ideologies are the most powerful weapon and they recruit people daily.

They have utmost belief that god is on their side and that the rest of us are Satan.

And when you have genuine beliefs like that your the most dangerous of enemies capable of the worst atrocities.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"Licketysplits, what a very well written post. I admired what you wrote & believe in. Very moving. "

agreed..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not exactly a pro war person, in fact I could probably be described as a subversive and i could give you a good argument for the real reason most of the wars in the last 200 years have been fought including the middle East.

And although I've currently got friends and relatives in uniform I'm probably one of the few people that think the middle East conflicts are one of our most honourable fights. You could probably argue about how we've gone about it but let no one be in doubt that the fight against fundamental islamists is in my opinion more crucial than the fight against Nazi fascism.

You really believe ISIL is more of a threat to us the nazi Germany was?"

If you had asked the same question to people after the Nazi party had been in existence for the same time you would have got a different answer to asking it of circia 1938. ISIL needs to be stopped before it does get that much misguided support.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ISIL will be destroyed, it's just a question of when. The problem is that they will be replaced by yet another group. Have we learned the lesson that we should not support these groups when they appear to be 'allies' against the current problem? I suspect not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Trouble is the yanks and the British think they have to police the world, and can't keep there nose out of anyone business that why we are in so many conflicts in the world

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

Religon dont you just love it.

It is all down to how we interpret what is written down.

10 people see an accident and you will get 10 different stories.

I havnt forgotten

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Religon dont you just love it.

It is all down to how we interpret what is written down.

10 people see an accident and you will get 10 different stories.

I havnt forgotten

"

Its not specially the religion its the people who get into it with passion (Or possibly self profit) that are the problem when they interpret preaching an aggressive way. I personally feel there are a lot of individuals who are using it to build up power and for personal gain.

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

Thats what I mean it is how people interpret it.

People use it to control other people.

The Christian churches have done it for a very long time.

The Catholics came to power and they burn the Protestants at the stake and then the Protestants came to power and they burnt the Catholics at the stake.

Now to get me on how we used to treat the Jewish people in Europe not including A hitler

Now we all worship the credit card

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk

Do they need to be stopped, of course they do.

Does the world think they will stop when they have taken over Syria and Iraq. Bollocks they will, they'll just start on another country killing innocent men, women and children, until they have taken over. and when they have full power over every Muslim country in the Middle East they will turn their attentions to Israel. and the Israelis wont fuck about. the phrase Nuclear Holocaust comes to mind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who is it that makes the decisions to start wars? Politicians of every hue. Get rid of politicians and wars don't start. People are to busy living their own lives to invade other peoples land. And people wonder why some people are anarchists.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/11/14 11:53:19]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Religion has a lot to answer in the past and with whats going on now, some want everyone to have there point of _iew and If not if get to the state we are in now

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"War is never right, but it sometimes necessary, and usually inevitable!

"

War is never nessesary it politisions that are bigoted and want there own way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not exactly a pro war person, in fact I could probably be described as a subversive and i could give you a good argument for the real reason most of the wars in the last 200 years have been fought including the middle East.

And although I've currently got friends and relatives in uniform I'm probably one of the few people that think the middle East conflicts are one of our most honourable fights. You could probably argue about how we've gone about it but let no one be in doubt that the fight against fundamental islamists is in my opinion more crucial than the fight against Nazi fascism."

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

Not sure about the biggot bit.

If we are unhappy about the way something is being done stand up and do something.

I person can change the way things are done.

MPs are there to do our bidding.

Why do you think they are having a hissy fit about UKIP

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not sure about the biggot bit.

If we are unhappy about the way something is being done stand up and do something.

I person can change the way things are done.

MPs are there to do our bidding.

Why do you think they are having a hissy fit about UKIP

"

MPs ARE there to do OUR bidding. Not one of them ever seems to remember that. Modern day royalty in thought and deed.

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

Oh I dont mind paying for Royalty.

Prince Philip is worth any amount of money any day of the week.

Shake the tree and see what happens

Going off topic now

If your next door neighbour was knocking tell bells out of his kids and wife on the street what would you do?

Would you stand there and do nothing or try and intervene?

War is just a bigger picture on a bigger play ground

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Oh I dont mind paying for Royalty.

Prince Philip is worth any amount of money any day of the week.

Shake the tree and see what happens

Going off topic now

If your next door neighbour was knocking tell bells out of his kids and wife on the street what would you do?

Would you stand there and do nothing or try and intervene?

War is just a bigger picture on a bigger play ground

"

Lots do stand by and do nothing. Others call in external reinforcements and some get involved and try and stop what is happening.

However, what is happening isn't a domestic violence situation and is overlaid with who owns what, who benefits and who loses and the battered wo/man and her/his children are just collateral damage.

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

It is domestic voilence but just on a bigger scale.

We caused the problem in Iraq by stirring a hornets nest and then just walked away and stuck our head in the sand

I hate it when people just stand there with hands in their pockets and say its not my problem.

If that person group or person isnt challenged what is to say you could be next.

Like the song - If you tolerate this your children will be next.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We didn't cause iraq ten years ago we caused Iraq a hundred years ago to keep the peace while we helped ourselves to the oil.

Ten points and a pat on the back to the first person who can tell me what was the first regiment deployed in ww1 and where were they sent?

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

wasnt it meserpertania long before Iraq

sorry for the spelling

or am I thinking of somewhere else

not too sure on the Regiment

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Straight borders always interest me!.

Yes it was part of the messy place but we (French and British) carved up the Ottoman empire after ww1 hence why the straight lines.

The answer is the Devonshire's and they were sent to Basra.

Odd place to send your troops while fighting jerry in the Flanders hey

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

Thanks for the info

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Went to the National Memorial Arbouretum the other week to lay some flowers for my Grand Father.I was walking around and the saddest thing is the blank blocks of stone ready for the future generations of war dead

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

More to the point you see the strategic relevance of the middle East in one foul swoop. Let's not beat about the bush, especially on a swinger's site .

Oil is of vast importance to us and it's mostly held by the crazy gang.

Hence the rush to defeat the Ottomans and secure it, of course you can't hold on by force forever, history's taught us that, so most of the middle East is broken up and left under the control of our elected candidates.

Occasionally these people are ejected from power by the indigenous population and that's when we get a little sneaky and political and along time ago we selected who are friends there would be and that's Saudi Arabia.

So when they want us to invade Iraq, we do, simple as.

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk


"Straight borders always interest me!.

Yes it was part of the messy place but we (French and British) carved up the Ottoman empire after ww1 hence why the straight lines.

The answer is the Devonshire's and they were sent to Basra.

Odd place to send your troops while fighting jerry in the Flanders hey

"

Incorrect, WW1 began in August 1914, and we were in Flanders months before.

British forces involved in Mesopotamia in 1914

(Mesopotamia Expeditionary Force / Indian Expeditionary Force "D")

•Indian Expeditionary Force "D" ?16th Indian Infantry Brigade ?2nd Bn, the Dorsetshire Regiment

?20th DCO Infantry (Brownlow's Punjabis)

?104th Wellesley's Rifles

?117th Mahratta Infantry

?Brigade Signals Section RE

?1 Mountain Brigade RGA

?22nd Company, QVO Sappers & Miners

?125th Combined Field Ambulance (3 Indian and 1 British Section)

?13th Mule Corps

?A detachment from 12th Mule Corps

?The rest of the 6th (Poona) Division (arrived from India 12 November 1914)

The campaign

29 September 1914

HM ships "Espiegle" and "Dalhousie" entered the Shatt-al-Arab and moved to Muhammerah

16 October 1914

The convoy containing Indian Expeditionary Force 'D' moved from Bombay and sailed straight to the head of the Gulf without stopping, and anchored off Bahrein.

The capture of Basra, 5 - 21 November 1914

5 November 1914

The orders given to Brig-General W. S. Delamain - commanding Indian Expeditionary Force 'D' - were to protect the oil refineries, tanks and pipeline at Abadan and cover the landing of reinforcements if these should be required. Only if hostilities with Turkey were to become fact should he try to occupy Basra too, and to do this the rest of the 6th (Poona) Division of the Indian Army would arrive. News came through that Turkey had attacked Russia on the Black Sea coast, and war was declared on this day

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By *icksoneMan
over a year ago

oldham

Think this gentleman deserves more than a pat on the back.

Just looked it up too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I stand corrected in my confusion it was of course the Dorset's not Devon. That were the first regiment deployed during ww1 to basra

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

War can be necessary. If we, or our allies were to be attacked, it would be necessary to fight back. Still doesn't make it right though, as I said it is never 'right'. As for inevitabity, we or our allies will be attacked sometime. If ISIL do attack Turkey, we would be honour bound to fight as Turkey is a member of NATO.

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk


"I stand corrected in my confusion it was of course the Dorset's not Devon. That were the first regiment deployed during ww1 to basra"

Reading and researching WW1 takes up far too much of my time if I'm honest.

Its been a big interest of mine since I visited Ypres in 2011

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the period from the French revolution to say 1920 was the most fascinating time in history and probably the time that gets the least amount of mainstream publicity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think we're in a state of perpetual war.

There's always someone to fight.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You mean like the "war on terror" or the "war on drugs".

I liked it when bush decreed were fighting a war on drugs taking and were losing.

Which kinda makes you think how shit are we at this, were fighting a war against "people on drugs"... and their beating us,I mean ffs we can't even beat a pot head

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.''...

I kinda miss the idiot

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You are right and it is going to be another terrible disaster where we just make everything worse.

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By *ngel n tedCouple
over a year ago

maidstone

And while all this goes on, russia will annex the ukraine under our noses, the eu and nato step in, then we have a world war?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You see I think that's the game that governments play.

Funding one side fighting another, move along and start again, but I think they've got out of their depth with fundamental islamists and their just hoping behind hope that the Saudi royals can control them.

And I'm not sure they can.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh good and won't that be bloody great. Vlad has already sent a fleet to Australia so he's getting ready just in case.

F*** me - glad I like kink might as well get it while we can.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And while all this goes on, russia will annex the ukraine under our noses, the eu and nato step in, then we have a world war?"

Unlikely. Putin knows that, as Ukraine is not in the EU or NATO, there will be a lot of huffing and puffing, bit little or no action. I suspect that Ukraine will soon be split into two countries, then, maybe, one half will join EU/NATO and Putin will stop. He may be not to our taste, but he is not stupid.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And while all this goes on, russia will annex the ukraine under our noses, the eu and nato step in, then we have a world war?"
.

I'm not particularly concerned about Russia, there's always some hoohar about them but it very rarely leads to anything.

Think of it this way, when the Russians made friends with people next door to the US it caused a hell of a lot more trouble than when the west made friends with people next door to Russia, so who's more likely to kick off, us or them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a serving military man myself we can't stand and watch all the suffering the innocent people have to deal with and should do all we can to help protect them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At a guess probably look to North Africa, Somalia way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As a serving military man myself we can't stand and watch all the suffering the innocent people have to deal with and should do all we can to help protect them."

Agreed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When the river tigris in iraq starts drying out fully and people find out about the gold there and around the river then it will defo be like worldwar 3.Already the iraqi people are find bits and bobs of gold were the river has dryed out.

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge


"And while all this goes on, russia will annex the ukraine under our noses, the eu and nato step in, then we have a world war?.

I'm not particularly concerned about Russia, there's always some hoohar about them but it very rarely leads to anything.

Think of it this way, when the Russians made friends with people next door to the US it caused a hell of a lot more trouble than when the west made friends with people next door to Russia, so who's more likely to kick off, us or them."
would be more concerned about china a vastly over populated country ruled by a communist elite with a large standing army who do as they are told .next door to them is siberia un tapped and largely uninhabited land crammed with a vast array of untapped natural resources do you think they dont covert this ? oh and they still have nuclear weapons just a thought

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

China and Russia are very close in fact they've signed at least 6 trade agreements in the last five years. Most of them aimed at ending the US Dominance.

If you want to look for trouble in that region look no further than China and Japan, they have a long standing hatred of one another and are currently in dispute over several islands and Japan is having a serious debate about re arming, with possibly the only stumbling block to that being the mess of Fukushima, that's proving so costly it may bankrupt the entire country soon.

South Africa, Pakistan, Israel, north Korea, India, everyone's got nuclear weapons these days and the list grows yearly.

I reckon we've got roughly 25 years to sort out the shit or kiss our arses goodbye

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"As a serving military man myself we can't stand and watch all the suffering the innocent people have to deal with and should do all we can to help protect them."

What about the numerous bloody conflicts going on in Africa today? We seem ok when it comes to standing and watching suffering there.

I can't help but believe that our war against ISIS is more to do with our oil supply than any other type of threat.

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By *razedcatMan
over a year ago

London / Herts

Ooh, I love it when a contentious subject like war pops up here.

Personally, I think war is never fought for (or at least, entirely for) the good of another country, or another people. There is always an element of self preservation or self enhancement included. That is the reason the middle east is never devoid of foreign intervention, whilst equally unstable and misfortunate places in Africa, South America and the odd totalitarian states like North Korea are widely kept away from.

And you simply cannot believe everything the media tells you, because like every human being on the planet, they represent one _iewpoint; one that is often misinformed, inaccurate or just plain misleading. Keep up with foreign news outlets and you'll see what I mean.

I like to think rather than destroy ourselves in a nuclear war, or ruin our environment, we'll develop into a egalitarian, globally-minded civilisation where everyone thinks critically about the information they're fed, for the good of the human race, not just individual states.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Ooh, I love it when a contentious subject like war pops up here.

Personally, I think war is never fought for (or at least, entirely for) the good of another country, or another people. There is always an element of self preservation or self enhancement included. That is the reason the middle east is never devoid of foreign intervention, whilst equally unstable and misfortunate places in Africa, South America and the odd totalitarian states like North Korea are widely kept away from.

And you simply cannot believe everything the media tells you, because like every human being on the planet, they represent one _iewpoint; one that is often misinformed, inaccurate or just plain misleading. Keep up with foreign news outlets and you'll see what I mean.

I like to think rather than destroy ourselves in a nuclear war, or ruin our environment, we'll develop into a egalitarian, globally-minded civilisation where everyone thinks critically about the information they're fed, for the good of the human race, not just individual states.

"

Great post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And you simply cannot believe everything the media tells you"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As a serving military man myself we can't stand and watch all the suffering the innocent people have to deal with and should do all we can to help protect them.

What about the numerous bloody conflicts going on in Africa today? We seem ok when it comes to standing and watching suffering there.

I can't help but believe that our war against ISIS is more to do with our oil supply than any other type of threat."
..

Well I could give you a theory but remember it's just my opinion formed from a few facts and observations..

I'll start in the 70,s with the death of the very forward thinking king faisal of Saudi, who wanted to unite Islam, and was very pro Palestine, so much so he refused to sell us oil for supporting Israel and so caused the very first crisis in capitalism, with three day weeks, queues for petrol and massive inflation.

We realised then that our thirst for oil could never again be held ransom, and so conveniently for us he was assassinated by his nephew and his replacements were much more pro western in policy.

In fact for one of the strictest Muslim country's with huge repression of its people (many of whom live in poverty) the west has been very nice to them, and for the last 30 years most of the top royals there have hatched a plan to rid the world of all forms of Islam leaving their sunni variety for total domination.

Now there was one particular royal who was left the task of getting this into effect and his name was Bandar bin sultan. Now all of his covert plans to rid Islam of shia Muslims needed cash and dodgy cash at that.

And luckily for him (and us) the perfect opportunity fell in his lap from Margret Thatcher when he signed the al yamamah arms deal in 1985, now if you've not heard of this deal it's surprising, as it's the uk largest export deal in history, it's basic premise being the UK would supply arms to Saudi Arabia,the contact was approx 120 billion pounds and they paid for it in oil, 600,000 barrels a day, every day for 25 years (we've made a bit of a killing the last few years since it hit 100 dollars) . Anyhow ohhh yes the corruption now bin sultan siphoned off billions of pounds in kick backs by bae which he used to buy houses,prostitues and drugs but mostly for weapons which he provided for the mujhadeen, Taliban and various African extremists and later for the set up and training of Isis.

And you can't just blame those awful Tories as Tony Blair actually called off the serious crime office investigation into the scandal at the behest of bin sultan himself, who is on record at downing Street as telling a standing British prime minister that "he couldn't guarantee there wouldn't be another 7/7 in London with jihadists if he was embroiled in a legal case here".

And so 5 prime minister's, three political parties in power and 28 years later, here we are.

The shia occupy 3 main countries.

Iraq, Iran and Syria.

Iraq was impossible to take for Isis without the West's invasion.

Syria is being seen to as we speak which leaves Iran,I think I can see why their desperate to get them nukes now.

Now I know what your thinking, funding(and making a bit yourself) and creating an enemy for pure finical gain by then taxing your electorate and spending it on arms (and making a bit yourself) to then invade, capture that countries resources (oil)....come off it no way,I mean it's not like we did that with Hitler or something.

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By *reelove1969Couple
over a year ago

bristol

does newsnight employ you guys ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"does newsnight employ you guys ?"
.

Lol actually newsnight carried a very long piece on the al yamamah deal only a few years back.

Mine is just a theory based on a hobby of reading books, documentary's and news articles.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"yes indeed, the human race never learns that war is cruel and such a waste of life.

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

War ! What is it good for ?

The immortal words ! Absolutely nothing !!!!!!

The rich companies get richer and poor ppl or general public get killed for it !

Having fought in two so called Wars ? It was hard to take that the first things into the countries after the Wars? Were cars and in one case ppl coming back from their stay out of the country cruise ?

Only to be picked up by limos!!!!

The ppl we now fight realise that fighting a conventional war they will never win ? So then the peace keeping begins and the nasty fighting starts !

We have now an Army that if the reserves are taken out of the equation should by law be called the British defence force !

We cannot afford to help everyone and we should sort our own before anyone else!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As a serving military man myself we can't stand and watch all the suffering the innocent people have to deal with and should do all we can to help protect them.

What about the numerous bloody conflicts going on in Africa today? We seem ok when it comes to standing and watching suffering there.

I can't help but believe that our war against ISIS is more to do with our oil supply than any other type of threat."

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By *icefellatwoMan
over a year ago

hastings


"As a serving military man myself we can't stand and watch all the suffering the innocent people have to deal with and should do all we can to help protect them.

What about the numerous bloody conflicts going on in Africa today? We seem ok when it comes to standing and watching suffering there.

I can't help but believe that our war against ISIS is more to do with our oil supply than any other type of threat. "

So you do you like what isis are doing to innocent people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As a serving military man myself we can't stand and watch all the suffering the innocent people have to deal with and should do all we can to help protect them.

What about the numerous bloody conflicts going on in Africa today? We seem ok when it comes to standing and watching suffering there.

I can't help but believe that our war against ISIS is more to do with our oil supply than any other type of threat...

Well I could give you a theory but remember it's just my opinion formed from a few facts and observations..

I'll start in the 70,s with the death of the very forward thinking king faisal of Saudi, who wanted to unite Islam, and was very pro Palestine, so much so he refused to sell us oil for supporting Israel and so caused the very first crisis in capitalism, with three day weeks, queues for petrol and massive inflation.

We realised then that our thirst for oil could never again be held ransom, and so conveniently for us he was assassinated by his nephew and his replacements were much more pro western in policy.

In fact for one of the strictest Muslim country's with huge repression of its people (many of whom live in poverty) the west has been very nice to them, and for the last 30 years most of the top royals there have hatched a plan to rid the world of all forms of Islam leaving their sunni variety for total domination.

Now there was one particular royal who was left the task of getting this into effect and his name was Bandar bin sultan. Now all of his covert plans to rid Islam of shia Muslims needed cash and dodgy cash at that.

And luckily for him (and us) the perfect opportunity fell in his lap from Margret Thatcher when he signed the al yamamah arms deal in 1985, now if you've not heard of this deal it's surprising, as it's the uk largest export deal in history, it's basic premise being the UK would supply arms to Saudi Arabia,the contact was approx 120 billion pounds and they paid for it in oil, 600,000 barrels a day, every day for 25 years (we've made a bit of a killing the last few years since it hit 100 dollars) . Anyhow ohhh yes the corruption now bin sultan siphoned off billions of pounds in kick backs by bae which he used to buy houses,prostitues and drugs but mostly for weapons which he provided for the mujhadeen, Taliban and various African extremists and later for the set up and training of Isis.

And you can't just blame those awful Tories as Tony Blair actually called off the serious crime office investigation into the scandal at the behest of bin sultan himself, who is on record at downing Street as telling a standing British prime minister that "he couldn't guarantee there wouldn't be another 7/7 in London with jihadists if he was embroiled in a legal case here".

And so 5 prime minister's, three political parties in power and 28 years later, here we are.

The shia occupy 3 main countries.

Iraq, Iran and Syria.

Iraq was impossible to take for Isis without the West's invasion.

Syria is being seen to as we speak which leaves Iran,I think I can see why their desperate to get them nukes now.

Now I know what your thinking, funding(and making a bit yourself) and creating an enemy for pure finical gain by then taxing your electorate and spending it on arms (and making a bit yourself) to then invade, capture that countries resources (oil)....come off it no way,I mean it's not like we did that with Hitler or something."
Wait till the saudi king die's the saudi family will be fighting each other to take his place.Not trying to argue but the saudi family and the wahabi movement are not sunni's they call them self sunni but they are the horn of the devils (najdi's) sitting in big palaces living a good life and the arab people dying of hunger hope they all burn in hell or even beter they should f##k off leave the country amd return back return back the holy site to the real sunni muslims instead of destroying shrines holy site to bulid kfc and hilton hotels etc i dont curse people but the saudi family all day long hope they all drop dead soon even there childen ( sound bad what am saying about the saudi family but what they have done over years gets me angry curse to the saudi devil family)

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By *razedcatMan
over a year ago

London / Herts

People tend to draw divides over religion, race, political _iews etc...But I truly believe future wars will be fought between classes of economic wealth. Rich vs poor. Because one day, more and more people will realise that power tends to corrupt, and absolute power (like the power we've given to government, big business and the media) corrupts absolutely.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"People tend to draw divides over religion, race, political _iews etc...But I truly believe future wars will be fought between classes of economic wealth. Rich vs poor. Because one day, more and more people will realise that power tends to corrupt, and absolute power (like the power we've given to government, big business and the media) corrupts absolutely."
.

I think your right, only it's not the future,it's now.

What happens to the world when 70% of jobs are mechanised, is the real question that the answer depends on how you _iew humanity.

Are wealthy people(i add to this really were talking the top 0.5%) inherently good.

Or are they inherently bad.

History tells us there inherently bad, hell bent on holding onto power and wealth no matter what actions were deemed necessary.

I like to think people are inherently good regardless of power and wealth but the system corrupts them, but then they are always well educated and know this themselves, so why not change the system.

Fear of change?

Fear of failure?

I prefer to think FDR was right and we having nothing to fear but fear itself.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"As a serving military man myself we can't stand and watch all the suffering the innocent people have to deal with and should do all we can to help protect them.

What about the numerous bloody conflicts going on in Africa today? We seem ok when it comes to standing and watching suffering there.

I can't help but believe that our war against ISIS is more to do with our oil supply than any other type of threat...

Well I could give you a theory but remember it's just my opinion formed from a few facts and observations..

I'll start in the 70,s with the death of the very forward thinking king faisal of Saudi, who wanted to unite Islam, and was very pro Palestine, so much so he refused to sell us oil for supporting Israel and so caused the very first crisis in capitalism, with three day weeks, queues for petrol and massive inflation.

We realised then that our thirst for oil could never again be held ransom, and so conveniently for us he was assassinated by his nephew and his replacements were much more pro western in policy.

In fact for one of the strictest Muslim country's with huge repression of its people (many of whom live in poverty) the west has been very nice to them, and for the last 30 years most of the top royals there have hatched a plan to rid the world of all forms of Islam leaving their sunni variety for total domination.

Now there was one particular royal who was left the task of getting this into effect and his name was Bandar bin sultan. Now all of his covert plans to rid Islam of shia Muslims needed cash and dodgy cash at that.

And luckily for him (and us) the perfect opportunity fell in his lap from Margret Thatcher when he signed the al yamamah arms deal in 1985, now if you've not heard of this deal it's surprising, as it's the uk largest export deal in history, it's basic premise being the UK would supply arms to Saudi Arabia,the contact was approx 120 billion pounds and they paid for it in oil, 600,000 barrels a day, every day for 25 years (we've made a bit of a killing the last few years since it hit 100 dollars) . Anyhow ohhh yes the corruption now bin sultan siphoned off billions of pounds in kick backs by bae which he used to buy houses,prostitues and drugs but mostly for weapons which he provided for the mujhadeen, Taliban and various African extremists and later for the set up and training of Isis.

And you can't just blame those awful Tories as Tony Blair actually called off the serious crime office investigation into the scandal at the behest of bin sultan himself, who is on record at downing Street as telling a standing British prime minister that "he couldn't guarantee there wouldn't be another 7/7 in London with jihadists if he was embroiled in a legal case here".

And so 5 prime minister's, three political parties in power and 28 years later, here we are.

The shia occupy 3 main countries.

Iraq, Iran and Syria.

Iraq was impossible to take for Isis without the West's invasion.

Syria is being seen to as we speak which leaves Iran,I think I can see why their desperate to get them nukes now.

Now I know what your thinking, funding(and making a bit yourself) and creating an enemy for pure finical gain by then taxing your electorate and spending it on arms (and making a bit yourself) to then invade, capture that countries resources (oil)....come off it no way,I mean it's not like we did that with Hitler or something."

Some very interesting points. Some I very much agree with others I'm not so sure. You are though wise in my opinion with focusing on the Saudi set up as key to much of what is and what has happened in the region. Anyone who believes that 'oil' isn't behind the West's agenda in the middle east need only research the facts about Saudi Arabia.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

So you do you like what isis are doing to innocent people "

Is that a serious question?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"People tend to draw divides over religion, race, political _iews etc...But I truly believe future wars will be fought between classes of economic wealth. Rich vs poor. Because one day, more and more people will realise that power tends to corrupt, and absolute power (like the power we've given to government, big business and the media) corrupts absolutely."

It's not 'future wars' it's called revolution and has been part of our history probably for as long as societies have existed. The most recent being the Arab Spring.

We nearly had one in Greece around the time of imposition of austerity.

Will we have one...I doubt it, the poll tax riots were probably as far as we are going to get, but anything is possible.

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