FabSwingers.com forum: E.U.

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

If there was a European Union Referendum, would you vote to stay in, or to leave the E.U.?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is there an abstain option? I firmly believe that no matter who's in government, whether we're in or out of Europe, or anything else politically motivated....we get the shaft either way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In. It makes sense on an economic level. Plus I like being able to travel easily for work, and that I'm entitled to an EHIC card.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe we benefit more from EU membership than we lose. Even something as simple as the European Working Time Directive has made a huge positive difference to people's working lives.

The real scandal is when £100millions of money earmarked from EU to UK as part of the FEAMD to fund foodbanks is turned down by a government implementing austerity measures. That's just sickening.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If I say out will you all assume I'm a Ukipper

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If I say out will you all assume I'm a Ukipper

No we wont. Come out dear, dont be shy! Is being an Outie shameful?

Of course not...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I say we need to renegotiate our position first and if they refuse or still continue to shaft us then we should leave.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If I say out will you all assume I'm a Ukipper

No we wont. Come out dear, dont be shy! Is being an Outie shameful?

Of course not..."

Well so far today I've been outed as anti Grimsby , anti northerner, anti liars, anti red heads so I'm going to finish off by saying Europe can go f@&k itself. Get the tunnel sealed off ciao, auf weidersein, au revior and goodnight Vienna

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Out

The EU is a failed experiment

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If I say out will you all assume I'm a Ukipper

No we wont. Come out dear, dont be shy! Is being an Outie shameful?

Of course not..."

Oi. I see what you did there. You were one of them yes campaigners weren't you

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By *hoenixcouplexxCouple
over a year ago

Leicestershire

I'd really have to give it a lot of thought. A year ago I would have said 'in' no question. But this last year I am running out of reasons to vote in.

I would rather vote out for parts of it and in for others. But I can't see that being an option.

We cannot continue being bled dry and used as an immigration dumping ground I know that much and our government seems to weak to do anything about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the EU had stayed true to its beginnings as a trading block, I would say to stay.

With the miriad of ridiculous European Directives, and the expansion of the EU with poor countries that don't contribute, I would say we need to get out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe we benefit more from EU membership than we lose. Even something as simple as the European Working Time Directive has made a huge positive difference to people's working lives.

The real scandal is when £100millions of money earmarked from EU to UK as part of the FEAMD to fund foodbanks is turned down by a government implementing austerity measures. That's just sickening."

the tories do not recognise food banks to them they dont exist and there are no poor ppl in the uk so they dont need the handout from the eu.either that or the fact the tories hate the poor and less well off and would like them all to move up north or better still die

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

Perpetual debate ... Can britain survive being isolated from common market ....big debate but apart from that the eu as an entity despite inner squables has held together a fragmented europe which for many years was at war with each other plus two bloody world wars. I think europe as a whole isnt perfect but its better in than out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe we benefit more from EU membership than we lose. Even something as simple as the European Working Time Directive has made a huge positive difference to people's working lives.

The real scandal is when £100millions of money earmarked from EU to UK as part of the FEAMD to fund foodbanks is turned down by a government implementing austerity measures. That's just sickening.

What a load of bollox

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe we benefit more from EU membership than we lose. Even something as simple as the European Working Time Directive has made a huge positive difference to people's working lives.

The real scandal is when £100millions of money earmarked from EU to UK as part of the FEAMD to fund foodbanks is turned down by a government implementing austerity measures. That's just sickening.

What a load of bollox

is it realy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does anyone of us mere mortals know enough to vote on this issue..If people are going to vote on daily mail stories then it's a bit of a one way vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A love a good reasoned debate

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By *obbytupperMan
over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

Has the EU had its accounts signed off yet, it's a corrupt organisation made up of failed politicians.

I seem to remember Neil Kinnock sacking the woman who blew the whistle on the corrupt practises.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Absolutely vote to stay in. I think it's better for our economy and legal system. Plus I like the freedom of movement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe we benefit more from EU membership than we lose. Even something as simple as the European Working Time Directive has made a huge positive difference to people's working lives.

The real scandal is when £100millions of money earmarked from EU to UK as part of the FEAMD to fund foodbanks is turned down by a government implementing austerity measures. That's just sickening.

What a load of bollox

is it realy

Er, yes. The Tories wants the poor dead? What a ridiculous statement

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"I believe we benefit more from EU membership than we lose. Even something as simple as the European Working Time Directive has made a huge positive difference to people's working lives.

The real scandal is when £100millions of money earmarked from EU to UK as part of the FEAMD to fund foodbanks is turned down by a government implementing austerity measures. That's just sickening.

What a load of bollox

is it realy

Yep, sure is.

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By *andonmessMan
over a year ago

A world all of his own

As with an awful lot of things in life, you *have* to take the good with the bad. The EU has a hell of a lot of bad, but is that enough to outweigh the good.....I don't know, I'm not certain enough to vote out.

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By *ngel n tedCouple
over a year ago

maidstone

I kind off think of the EU as a gang of children, all knocking about together on their school holidays and we're the one no one really likes, but they hang with us cos we've got money and a place to go

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I believe we benefit more from EU membership than we lose. Even something as simple as the European Working Time Directive has made a huge positive difference to people's working lives.

The real scandal is when £100millions of money earmarked from EU to UK as part of the FEAMD to fund foodbanks is turned down by a government implementing austerity measures. That's just sickening.

What a load of bollox

is it realy

Yep, sure is."

Yup, totally agree. Utter shite....

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By *igSuki81Man
over a year ago

Retirement Village

In but only if we (as in the general public of the UK) have more control & get asked about policies rather than them being forced on us by Brussels.

Having easier trade links and freedom to trade and move is good but we seem to get lumbered with everything with no say on whether we agree.

I may upset people with this statement but I for one don't agree with the open border policy we seem to have nor the lack of immigration control & before anyone asks i'm not a UKIP fan

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In but only if we (as in the general public of the UK) have more control & get asked about policies rather than them being forced on us by Brussels.

Having easier trade links and freedom to trade and move is good but we seem to get lumbered with everything with no say on whether we agree.

I may upset people with this statement but I for one don't agree with the open border policy we seem to have nor the lack of immigration control & before anyone asks i'm not a UKIP fan

evening ! Funny. We dong mind making our feelings known "in or out " but FFS dong label us as ukippers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

in, unless we can beat everyone up again and re take the commonwealth!

the daily fail stories are an insult to its readers intelligence, blaming immigration and euro levies is so much easier than looking for the real reasons that countries throughout the world are struggling, its not just a euro thing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dong

^ don't

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if we (as in the general public of the UK) have more control & get asked about policies rather than them being forced on us by Brussels "

Join the EU they said, it'll be fun they said

They lied

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By *he_tykiesCouple
over a year ago

West Yorkshire.

The problem is our wonderful, allegedly highly interlectual, intelligent politicians will never make it easy for us to decide as they ALL will treat us like mushrooms, keep us in the dark and feed us on bullshit!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ooooh it pains me to say it but I'd have to vote to stay IN although sometimes I think what's the worst that could happen if we did leave?

Great Britain makes up less than 1% of the worlds population or something ridiculously small. The main thing that would push people to leave is immigration, it's a sensitive subject but it pisses a lot of people off. If we left the E.U and stopped people coming here or living here they've said the countries would do the same and kick out the britains living in their countries. The Brits living in countries like the 1 million or so living in Spain or few 100 thousand living in France or the few thousand living in Cyprus for example, those Brits are probably retired and have moved to those countries and bought houses and are spending their retirement money in their countries. They aren't going over there in the millions and raping their economy by claiming benefits or crippling their NHS or taking local authority housing. The people that come in to the uk is much much higher than the few who chose to leave and live abroad.

Another thing is human rights, human rights laws make me laugh sometimes, the way we can't deport foreign criminals, criminals that have done war crimes or acts of terrorism even those cunts that killed james bulger, without human rights laws they wouldn't have had new identities and been protected as much as they have, where was that 2 year olds little boys rights when they molested him and battered him and let him be chopped in half on the railway track. Without human rights laws they would have served their time and been released back into the community and a vigilante group would have killed them years ago, which is no more than they deserve.

Britain should adopt a "what's in it for me attitude" in a relationship you wouldn't put up with someone that constantly took off you without giving anything back, in business you wouldn't carry in with a project if you didn't get out more than what you put in.

Just for shits and kicks I'd like us to leave the EU to see what would happen but it is daunting, I don't think I would ever be able to find out everything I needed to know to be able to make such an important decision.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just for shits and kicks I'd like us to leave the EU to see what would happen but it is daunting. "

Who dares wins

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem is that the majority of us have never known any different. We feel safer with what we know. The devil's advocate in me would like us to leave to see what happened if we went it alone, but I think we would fail. Although the EU has some crazy rules and we always seem hard done by, I think in the long term we are better off in than out. Even though that sticks in my throat! So I'd vote in with a heavy heart.

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By *igSuki81Man
over a year ago

Retirement Village

"if we (as in the general public of the UK) have more control & get asked about policies rather than them being forced on us by Brussels

Join the EU they said, it'll be fun they said

They lied "

I probably wouldn't say lied, under-estimated our loss of control of our own country & its laws

Personally i think (& its been mentioned by another poster) immigration is the biggest bug-bearer for people.

Though i am a fan of people emigrating to Britain (& massive respect to anyone who does that to make theirs and their loved ones life better) i, & im sure many others too, am not a fan of benefit tourists which unfortunately we seem to get.

I accept the benefit system is there to help those struggling but i do think it is abused and not just by immigrants by us Brits too and until we rein that in anyone for everyone, Brits & Non-Brits, will see it as an easy target

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In.

I could list some of the reasons why but those who want out would simply choose to ignore them.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

Out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shake it all about

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By *igSuki81Man
over a year ago

Retirement Village

"Shake it all about

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also if you look at the National crime statistics for this year you will see that the total crimes reported have decreased by 16% from last year but of those crimes, shoplifting has risen by 5% ~ indication that people are on their arse! Fraud increased 8% ~ also indicates people are on their arse and being dodgy to try and make ends meet whilst sexual crime has increased 21% When you look further into race and criminal justice statistics you'll see that the majority of people commiting sexual crime are non Brits. Is that surprising? Well not really because in their countries they don't really have respect for women and they don't have respect for our laws.

I sound like a ukipper now but I'm not, I just read things once and they stick in my mind thanks to my HSAM memory, one of the few people in the uk that have been tested and proven to have it. Gift and a curse!

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By *igSuki81Man
over a year ago

Retirement Village

"Also if you look at the National crime statistics for this year you will see that the total crimes reported have decreased by 16% from last year but of those crimes, shoplifting has risen by 5% ~ indication that people are on their arse! Fraud increased 8% ~ also indicates people are on their arse and being dodgy to try and make ends meet whilst sexual crime has increased 21% When you look further into race and criminal justice statistics you'll see that the majority of people commiting sexual crime are non Brits. Is that surprising? Well not really because in their countries they don't really have respect for women and they don't have respect for our laws.

Please excuse my ignorance here, i'm sure you'll be able to correct me, but what does race have to do with being British?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Please excuse my ignorance here, i'm sure you'll be able to correct me, but what does race have to do with being British?"

Exactly. Race has nothing to do with being Japanese either.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

In.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In, but maybe we should take some things as guide lines rather than otherwise. Most other countries seem to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Deffo out ! Mind I'd also have an independent England

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please excuse my ignorance here, i'm sure you'll be able to correct me, but what does race have to do with being British?"

Well as I was talking about crime statistics I felt I should write the source of the information so it doesn't look like I'm plucking figures from thin air. If you look at the national office of statistics you can see this years crime figures, if you want it broken down you can see what type of crimes were commited if you want it broken down again you can see who the offenders were, the direct gov website issues a report called "race and criminal justice statistics" it tells you how many white people commited a crime, how many black people commited a crime and so on and so forth. It also says how many NON british people commited crime ie people from EU countries and as this topic is about whether or not Britain should leave the EU, if Britain wasn't in the EU those people wouldn't be here no? Those crimes wouldn't have happened.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

In. It's far from perfect, but frankly I think we'd be worse off out of it.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Holy shit, I just took notice of the news. We have to give £2bn to Europe whilst France, Germany, Italy to name 3 get money back.

Fuck off ya cheeky twats. Oh hang on, its to do with a deal we signed when we were shit(ter), nice one dave.

Respek to dave though for kicking off a bit over this and looking a little bit red and ratty, Im sure I saw a tiny smidge of spit come out of his mouth when he was speaking.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I want out, but The Financial City Of London wants in, and it usually gets its way.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

I didnt give an in/out as I havent a foggiest to be honest with you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please excuse my ignorance here, i'm sure you'll be able to correct me, but what does race have to do with being British?

You don't have to be an EU resident to emigrate to the the UK.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

In.

And I'd take all the mud throwing and scare mongering the Daily Mail did on Scottish independence and reverse it so that the same media onslaught was done against leaving the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You don't have to be an EU resident to emigrate to the the UK. "

Thanks for pointing out the obvious there! As this thread is about the E.U I was keeping the content on topic. It's not emigrate to the UK either they immigrate to the UK and emigrate from their country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You don't have to be an EU resident to emigrate to the the UK.

Well, your example suggested only EU immigrants commit crimes and discounted non EU immigrants. It was biased to your view and needed correcting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And you do the Hokey Cokey

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well, your example suggested only EU immigrants commit crimes and discounted non EU immigrants. It was biased to your view and needed correcting. "

Well no it didn't did it because I also included British people amongst the statistics. The point being there are more crimes commited by non Brits than actual British people. If you want to throw in non E.U immigrants as well then the percentage of non british offenders becomes even higher.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well, your example suggested only EU immigrants commit crimes and discounted non EU immigrants. It was biased to your view and needed correcting.

Your point isn't clear, and you're bordering on sounding xenophobic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whatever like, not here to argue I come on here for cock!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Holy shit, I just took notice of the news. We have to give £2bn to Europe whilst France, Germany, Italy to name 3 get money back.

Fuck off ya cheeky twats. Oh hang on, its to do with a deal we signed when we were shit(ter), nice one dave.

Respek to dave though for kicking off a bit over this and looking a little bit red and ratty, Im sure I saw a tiny smidge of spit come out of his mouth when he was speaking."

Gordon Twatting Brown signed the agreement, not Cameron

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Leave

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Tory government don't give 2 shits about poor people.ad for EU.didn't we trade with the world before this was formed

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Whatever like, not here to argue I come on here for cock! "

Lol - Im in, then out, then in, then out then ooooo!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

In!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tory government don't give 2 shits about poor people.ad for EU.didn't we trade with the world before this was formed "

Being part of the EU has increased the volume of exports leaving the UK. The EU is the UK's main trading partner, worth more than £400bn a year. It'd be mental to opt out of that kind of revenue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And that's what it's all about.

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"I want out, but The Financial City Of London wants in, and it usually gets its way."

The EU wants to put a financial transaction tax on the city of London so they can bleed more money out of us. So far thank fook our governments have resisted this. Maybe it pisses the EU off and now this is why they have decided to hit us with a bill of £1.7 billon which they backdated 20 years which they say we must pay by December 1st 2014! What an absolute joke, Italy and Holland have to pay tiny amounts in comparison and Germany and France get a rebate. France gets 1 billion euro back from the EU in this deal. We need a referendum on Britain's membership of the EU in this country now, sooner we leave the better! I want OUT.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Tory government don't give 2 shits about poor people.ad for EU.didn't we trade with the world before this was formed

Being part of the EU has increased the volume of exports leaving the UK. The EU is the UK's main trading partner, worth more than £400bn a year. It'd be mental to opt out of that kind of revenue. "

No it would'nt be mental, if we left we could make our own new trade deals, which we are now prohibited from doing as part of the EU.

London is one of if not the financial capital of the world and we are one of the wealthiest countries in the world, as an independent country nations all over the world would be chomping at the bit to make new trade deals with us outside the EU.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"nations all over the world would be chomping at the bit to make new trade deals with us outside the EU. "

I've not heard any countries calling for us to leave the EU for the sake of better trade. So either there is evidence of it having happened or it's abstract supposition.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tory government don't give 2 shits about poor people.ad for EU.didn't we trade with the world before this was formed

Being part of the EU has increased the volume of exports leaving the UK. The EU is the UK's main trading partner, worth more than £400bn a year. It'd be mental to opt out of that kind of revenue.

No it would'nt be mental, if we left we could make our own new trade deals, which we are now prohibited from doing as part of the EU.

The EU is the preferred trading partner for over 80 countries. It's a great opportunity.

If we were to leave the EU, our MEPs would have no part in the decision-making process but still be bound by single market rules. Being part of the EU gives us the support of the other members, instead of fighting battles as a single nation.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"nations all over the world would be chomping at the bit to make new trade deals with us outside the EU.

I've not heard any countries calling for us to leave the EU for the sake of better trade. So either there is evidence of it having happened or it's abstract supposition. "

Some nations in the commonwealth would like more trade with us, but they get sidelined because of the EU. Believe it or not there is a whole wide world out there beyond the EU to trade with.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Tory government don't give 2 shits about poor people.ad for EU.didn't we trade with the world before this was formed

Being part of the EU has increased the volume of exports leaving the UK. The EU is the UK's main trading partner, worth more than £400bn a year. It'd be mental to opt out of that kind of revenue.

No it would'nt be mental, if we left we could make our own new trade deals, which we are now prohibited from doing as part of the EU.

The EU is the preferred trading partner for over 80 countries. It's a great opportunity.

I'd much rather have British politicians making our own trade deals than some faceless foreign eurocrat negotiating trade deals on our behalf. Are they really going to get the best possible deal for us?

I don't think so, and i think a Brit doing the negotiating would be more motivated to get a better deal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tory government don't give 2 shits about poor people.ad for EU.didn't we trade with the world before this was formed

Being part of the EU has increased the volume of exports leaving the UK. The EU is the UK's main trading partner, worth more than £400bn a year. It'd be mental to opt out of that kind of revenue.

No it would'nt be mental, if we left we could make our own new trade deals, which we are now prohibited from doing as part of the EU.

The EU is the preferred trading partner for over 80 countries. It's a great opportunity.

I don't think so, and i think a Brit doing the negotiating would be more motivated to get a better deal. "

But we do have British MEPs making decisions for us?

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By *renchbambi xWoman
over a year ago

Need to know basis

"If there was a European Union Referendum, would you vote to stay in, or to leave the E.U.?"

Are you asking those in countries committed to following and abiding to the EU regs or if its ok to pick and choose?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

thee are probably thousands of British businesses trading successfully outside of the EU..

as well as inside..

hardly a reason to leave is it..

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"nations all over the world would be chomping at the bit to make new trade deals with us outside the EU.

I've not heard any countries calling for us to leave the EU for the sake of better trade. So either there is evidence of it having happened or it's abstract supposition.

Some nations in the commonwealth would like more trade with us, but they get sidelined because of the EU. Believe it or not there is a whole wide world out there beyond the EU to trade with. "

I'm well aware of the earth's geography.

We already expand trade with Commonwealth countries - deals with India have been signed this year.

India already invests more in the UK than it does with the EU (our 7th largest investor) and we account for 10% of it's investment.

I only quote India because the info was easiest to find.

So you want to get us out of the EU in order to expand trade with countries where it's already currently expanding?

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Tory government don't give 2 shits about poor people.ad for EU.didn't we trade with the world before this was formed

Being part of the EU has increased the volume of exports leaving the UK. The EU is the UK's main trading partner, worth more than £400bn a year. It'd be mental to opt out of that kind of revenue.

No it would'nt be mental, if we left we could make our own new trade deals, which we are now prohibited from doing as part of the EU.

The EU is the preferred trading partner for over 80 countries. It's a great opportunity.

I don't think so, and i think a Brit doing the negotiating would be more motivated to get a better deal.

But we do have British MEPs making decisions for us?"

If you look at the true workings of the EU you would find that MEP's don't have any real power and the EU parliament in Brussels is just really a talking shop. It is the EU comission that is elected by secret ballot that holds all the power and makes all the real decisions. The EU is corrupt, not had its books signed off for years and it is undemocratic. More often than not it is foreign eurocrats who are making trade deals on Britains behalf, from within the EU. Clegg and Farage had a lengthy exchange about this very issue when they had the televised debates earlier in the year. Did you watch them?

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By *igSuki81Man
over a year ago

Retirement Village

Please excuse my ignorance here, i'm sure you'll be able to correct me, but what does race have to do with being British?

At the risk of stirring a hornets nest on this thread i'm going to ask again, what does race have to do with being British?

The reason i ask is because race or ethnicity has nothing to do with nationality.

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By *renchbambi xWoman
over a year ago

Need to know basis

I am and have been from birth brought up as European......then I moved to the UK!!!! And realized that EU meant something very different - e.g. Ever Unsure

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The past hundred years would suggest that a union of European States would fall on the side of being in than out.

Nigel Farage is a good reason for staying in!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you look at the true workings of the EU you would find that MEP's don't have any real power and the EU parliament in Brussels is just really a talking shop. It is the EU comission that is elected by secret ballot that holds all the power and makes all the real decisions. The EU is corrupt, not had its books signed off for years and it is undemocratic. More often than not it is foreign eurocrats who are making trade deals on Britains behalf, from within the EU. Clegg and Farage had a lengthy exchange about this very issue when they had the televised debates earlier in the year. Did you watch them?"

Yes, and that's also a crazy view to have. I don't know why you believe the UK is so weak, when it's really not the case. It's not a conspiracy, it's just a trading block for a group of countries.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

The reason i ask is because race or ethnicity has nothing to do with nationality."

It does for some people unfortunately.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

if Britain wasn't in the EU those people wouldn't be here no? Those crimes wouldn't have happened.

I don't understand how you reach this logic.

Migration from the EU will never stop, even under UKIP. Only the levels and methods of migration would change.

So unless you are able to accurately predict the EU migrants who would commit crimes in the future then it's not realistic to say being out of EU would mean no EU migrant criminals.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Yes, and that's also a crazy view to have. I don't know why you believe the UK is so weak, when it's really not the case. It's not a conspiracy, it's just a trading block for a group of countries. "

It started out as a trading block, but it has now mutated into something much different to what it was originally intended. With the threat from russia and the Ukraine issue will we soon have a EU army and an EU air force?

Who do you think will end up paying for that, i would say a fair chunk will come from the British tax payer unless we wake up have a referendum and decide to leave. Also i don't think Britain is weak, i think we'll be stronger outside of the EU. It is being in the EU that is weakening us in many areas not just trade.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, and that's also a crazy view to have. I don't know why you believe the UK is so weak, when it's really not the case. It's not a conspiracy, it's just a trading block for a group of countries.

Right that scenario isn't a reality so I can't comment on it (it's fear mongering). The Russia sanction is there to improve the Ukraine situation, just like previous sanctions. It's a punishment in order to aid peace.

That's simply not true. The EU counts for over 50% of our exports revenue. That is not weakening the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In or out . The bottom line is this wether we like it or not , we are controlled by the guys with the cash . We are told that the only choices are in or out . That's a complete load of horse shite . We could and should have more choice over how we live . How we give up most of our time to pay banks , oil companies, and taxes. Its nothing to do with the E u or the uk . Its about making the people feel they have a say . Its all one big con . And we haven't got a say . We have to pay . So being in or out wont change a thing . While our houses are owned by the banks , we are helpless . And unable to change a thing .

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

That's simply not true. The EU counts for over 50% of our exports revenue. That is not weakening the UK. "

Don't worry about it, Farage himself acknowledged we would take an economic hit if we left.

Part of me hopes the Tories win the election and offer a referendum, then this whole EU question will be settled for some time.

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By *ookworm258Man
over a year ago

Wythenshawe

I say out of Europe. I think Britain should adopt the Australian method of immigration and allow people in if they have a skill we require. Too many people see Britain as a soft touch country which gives everything to anyone who wants it. Not UKIP but think it should be best for Britain by the people not best for the EU paid for by Britain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So how about all the Brits that have moved overseas since the war are all told to go back to the uk because the people of the countries they are living in want there jobs and homes back. Lets see how many people we have in our country. How is it our country? Its not . Its the rich that own the country and while people take lower wages for the same jobs , it,ll stay the same .

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Yes, and that's also a crazy view to have. I don't know why you believe the UK is so weak, when it's really not the case. It's not a conspiracy, it's just a trading block for a group of countries.

That's simply not true. The EU counts for over 50% of our exports revenue. That is not weakening the UK. "

The EU is a failed experiment and the wheels are finally starting to fall off it. The EU and the euro are in recession and even the juggernaut economy of the EU Germany is flatlining now or looking like it may go backwards. We need to get out and go where the money is like China, India and Brazil, the EU is looking like its on its last legs now from where i'm standing, thank fook we never joined the euro!

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"We need to get out and go where the money is like China, India and Brazil, the EU is looking like its on its last legs now from where i'm standing, thank fook we never joined the euro!"

We're already 'going' to India, I gave the info above!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I want out and yes I'm voting for ukip

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By *renchbambi xWoman
over a year ago

Need to know basis

Everybody has a view...an opinion but nobody listens to either ...

I Have read all posts and really find it hard to agree to an opposite view....but i will give it some thoughts because i do not believe I am always right.

Hopefully that made sense

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Is this the death of political correctness?

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

We cannot just leave,but we can do what we want like the French and Germans,only play by the rules we want to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, and that's also a crazy view to have. I don't know why you believe the UK is so weak, when it's really not the case. It's not a conspiracy, it's just a trading block for a group of countries.

That's simply not true. The EU counts for over 50% of our exports revenue. That is not weakening the UK.

I don't think you've given any evidence of how the EU is detrimental to the UK, you're a "Eurosceptic" which is a shame.

Also China has an agreement with the UK, signed this year. And EU is Brazil's first trading partner.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lol . Do you really think any of this is going to make one bit of difference to our lives ? If we stay in , the government,labour or tories will tax us . If we come out , the government will tax us . Nothing will change . Its the sad truth and we all know it . Whatever happens we are still going to have to work everyday to pay the bills . So what is the point i worring about it .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At the risk of stirring a hornets nest on this thread i'm going to ask again, what does race have to do with being British?

The reason i ask is because race or ethnicity has nothing to do with nationality."

Oh for fucksake I was stating how many crimes were commited by non british people living in the United Kingdom compared to how many british people commit crimes in the UK.

The only reason I used the word race in my previous post is because it was the source of where I got the figures. It was from the ministry of justice publication of race and criminal justice statistics. In my profession there are foreign male inmates that will not listen to me because I am a woman and that goes for every female member of staff. Speak to a man, speak to a man, that's all we hear. They have no respect for women in their countries and when they come over here they do all sorts of shit. Rape is the most common. As I mentioned earlier, sexual crime has increased 21% from last year, of all the rapes reported, 18% were by British people the rest were from E.U and non E.U countries. Coincidence maybe?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At the risk of stirring a hornets nest on this thread i'm going to ask again, what does race have to do with being British?

The reason i ask is because race or ethnicity has nothing to do with nationality.

Oh for fucksake I was stating how many crimes were commited by non british people living in the United Kingdom compared to how many british people commit crimes in the UK.

Well, you've definitely gone from bordering on it to full on xenophobia. Congratulations.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

[Removed by poster at 24/10/14 22:23:40]

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

I wonder if we were offered a referendum and chose to stay in, would the Eurosceptics shut up? No? Thought not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well, you've definitely gone from bordering on it to full on xenophobia. Congratulations. "

Ummm fucks given? None!

Oh and FYI, my father and all my paternal family are Italian, my father was born here in the 60's I was born here in the 80's, my grandparents went back to their country in 2005 because they didn't like living here anymore!

I don't dislike foreign people, I just don't like people who have no respect for the laws of this country. Period. Don't give a fuck who you are, if some bastard broke into my house or robbed me in the street or robbed some old lady in a violent attack, I'd think they were a cunt whether they were british or not. I was just pointing out that more crimes are committed in the UK by non UK residents, you can't argue with a fact, those facts are there for all to see it's not a secret, just look at the national office of statistics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well, you've definitely gone from bordering on it to full on xenophobia. Congratulations.

Ummm fucks given? None!

I don't know what statistics you're calling upon. I don't believe that more than 50% of crimes have been committed by immigrants, and I only know of the 2007 FOIA request where it was shown to be 1/5.

Feel free to link your findings, but I still think you're xenophobic and have odd views about the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OUT !!!! no other nation should be telling us what we can and cant do, who we can deport and who we cant. and who cares if banana's are to bendy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well, you've definitely gone from bordering on it to full on xenophobia. Congratulations.

Ummm fucks given? None!

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By *arnaclebillMan
over a year ago

Robin Hood County

"If I say out will you all assume I'm a Ukipper

No we wont. Come out dear, dont be shy! Is being an Outie shameful?

Of course not...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ofcourse I am in

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What is good about being in the EU??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What is good about being in the EU?? "

I've just spent ages explaining why it's good for the UK

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By *igSuki81Man
over a year ago

Retirement Village

Well, you've definitely gone from bordering on it to full on xenophobia. Congratulations.

Ummm fucks given? None!

Thank you for clearing that up

So your issue is with the level of crime committed by non-brits in comparison to brits regardless of their race although what you said earlier didn't portray it that way.

Just as you i was born here in the 80s so by nationality i am a brit but my paternal origins are from kashmir therefore in terms of race i am referred to as being of asian.

See the difference between race and nationality

Now back to topic, in or out of the EU

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

Well, you've definitely gone from bordering on it to full on xenophobia. Congratulations.

Ummm fucks given? None!

Feel free to link your findings, but I still think you're xenophobic and have odd views about the EU. "

You seem to think anyone who does'nt hold the same opinion as you is odd?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To many reasons to stay, so saying few here:

Free trade

The EU encourages investment in Britain

Police coordination

EU Structural Funds

Influence within Europe

Influence outside Europe

Immigration- good for Britain

Emigration- good for the British

Market fairness

The EU safeguards workers’ rights

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"I wonder if we were offered a referendum and chose to stay in, would the Eurosceptics shut up? No? Thought not.

No, but they may spontaneously combust.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You seem to think anyone who does'nt hold the same opinion as you is odd?"

Yeah, when they're unfounded, or xenophobic. It's hugely bizarre to me how people can make decisions without facts.

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"To many reasons to stay, so saying few here:

Free trade

The EU encourages investment in Britain

Police coordination

EU Structural Funds

Influence within Europe

Influence outside Europe

Immigration- good for Britain

Emigration- good for the British

Market fairness

The EU safeguards workers’ rights

Ok then some opposing reasons why we should leave.....

The ability to make our own trade deals with who we like when we like.

A massive saving of £55 million per day in EU membership fee (what it costs Britain to be a member of the EU). Also no more £1.7 billion bills which the EU issues and demands we must pay within a 5 week period.

The ability to deport foreign criminals without being challenged by the european court of human rights most of the time on the "right to a family life here" card.

Take back control of our own borders and the ability to control our own level of immigration that we are comfortable with and only let people in who have the skills we need to fill gaps in the jobs market.

An end to "healthcare tourism". If you want to use our Nhs pay something in before you use it like british taxpayers have to.

No more pressure from the EU to accept a financial transaction tax on the city of London.

An end to "benefits tourism" as we are seen as a soft touch in the EU and some come here to claim benefits for themselves and their family back in their home countries.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"To many reasons to stay, so saying few here:

Free trade

The EU encourages investment in Britain

Police coordination

EU Structural Funds

Influence within Europe

Influence outside Europe

Immigration- good for Britain

Emigration- good for the British

Market fairness

The EU safeguards workers’ rights

OK I will tackle these one by one.

Free trade.

Yes but only within the shrinking market of the EU itself. Anything outside the EU is negotiated on a Europe wide basis and British exports to the rest of the world have to be rubber stamped by Brussels.

The EU encourages investment in Britain.

To a certain extent yes, but at what cost? While a few big players do benefit from being inside the EU. Many small/medium company's are hamstrung by Brussels regulations and many go under because of them.

Police coordination.

You mean things like the European arrest warrant, which although it has had one or two high profile successes is regularly abused by other country's (most notably Poland) Or the coordination that allowed a convicted killer to come to Britain and kill again?

EU Structural Funds.

Give me 10 grand and I'll give you 2 grand back, but only on the condition you tell everyone how wonderful I am.

Influence within Europe.

I think recent events such as Junker and the 1.7 billion quid bill is enough to shoot that one down before I start with anything else.

Influence outside Europe.

You mean at the WTO meetings where the British are regularly asked to leave the room while the EU negotiates on our behalf?

Immigration- good for Britain.

Good for who? gang masters? yes. Anyone looking for a cheap minimum wage housekeeper or nanny? yes. A few farmers who want cheap fruit and veg pickers? yes. The NHS? No. The education system? No. ATM users in London? No. Any company that wants to bring in a highly skilled worker from outside the EU? No. I could go on but that will do for now.

Emigration- good for the British.

On this one I can speak from personal experience. While Germany is quite (but not very) welcoming it is very different in other EU country's. In Spain for example anything to do with officialdom, from a visit to the town hall, or registering a car, to even filing a police report you will be expected to either speak fluent Spanish or provide (at your own expense) an interpretor. Want to work in any kind of trade? forget it. Unless your qualifications are Spanish you haven't got a hope in hell of getting a job. Want to run a business? only if you can stump up around 250€ per month for your autonimo from day one. They may give wealthy pensioners who buy houses a limited welcome but anyone else can go to hell.

Market fairness.

In theory yes, in practise not really.

Low pay and EU subsidies in the former Warsaw pact countries has encouraged many manufacturers to close factories in the west and relocate in the eastern states. Only recently here in our area of Germany Nokia closed a large factory and relocated in to Romania. Just one of many.

The EU safeguards workers’ rights.

See above. I would also add that free movement of labour, especially east to west, has if anything eroded workers rights.

Personally I believe that Britain should leave the EU. Membership has very little to offer in the modern world other than decades of propping up the basket case economies of country's that should never have been allowed to join.

The EU is in economic meltdown, and the Euro is a financial disaster for pretty much every member. While it used to be just the "PIIGS" country's that held back the rest, the malaise is spreading to the core. Germany will slip back into recession before the end of the year and the slow motion train wreck that is the French economy will almost certainly need a bailout sooner or later. The problem is that there isn't enough money to bail out the French so the irony will be that the EU's main cheer leader will probably be the country that brings the whole rotten edifice crashing down.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

What would Thatcher have done?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What would Thatcher have done?"

probably whatever benefitted the rich?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Out. We give much more than we receive. Trade will continue as before when new "loopholes" are discovered or created in trade agreements.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

We could be the offshore, banking economic trading bridge to Europe without their stupid red tape.

We could be like Hong Kong was to China before the handover...

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"What would Thatcher have done?"

Thatcher v Merkel. I would really want a ring side seat for that one.

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

I as a business man who trades not only with EU countries but with others such as Australia, Canada & USA would vote to come out.

There is no reason why trade should suffer free trade agreements such as those set up by EFTA countries to trade with the EU could and would be put in place.

The EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU.

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By *illbillMan
over a year ago

dublin

"What would Thatcher have done?

probably whatever benefitted the rich?

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By *andm288Couple
over a year ago

oxford

"I as a business man who trades not only with EU countries but with others such as Australia, Canada & USA would vote to come out.

There is no reason why trade should suffer free trade agreements such as those set up by EFTA countries to trade with the EU could and would be put in place.

The EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why can't we just have a vote ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Out

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By *mwstaffsMan
over a year ago

brownhills

The way I see it is that anyone under age of 57 has not had a vote on it specifically so should be given a chance to do it as I bet those who voted in 75 are in the minority now

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"I as a business man who trades not only with EU countries but with others such as Australia, Canada & USA would vote to come out.

There is no reason why trade should suffer free trade agreements such as those set up by EFTA countries to trade with the EU could and would be put in place.

The EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Got to laugh at David Cameron saying he didn't know about the 1.7 billion that we have to give to the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I want to stay in, fancy moving someplace warmer Italy or Spain would do nicely....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Look.....a rainbow......

Miss Jay

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By *eKoopleCouple
over a year ago

Germany / Manchester

My businesses like mine have had many open doors in Europe and not being a part of the E.U. would hinder our growth. -Mr.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Perpetual debate ... Can britain survive being isolated from common market ....big debate but apart from that the eu as an entity despite inner squables has held together a fragmented europe which for many years was at war with each other plus two bloody world wars. I think europe as a whole isnt perfect but its better in than out

Wow, so if Britain pulls out of the EU, the other EU countries will end up at war with each other? Don't forget the EU is bigger than 1 country.

As for trade? EU countries sell more to us than us to them, so trade will not stop.

And as for Brits that have moved abroad to EU countries being sent home? Expats actually contribute to the other EU countries economically, they are either retired and get UK pensions or are working, as other EU countries font have the lax benefit systems that we do. And besides, there are so many citizens from other EU countries over here that an agreement will be reached where no more can immigrate or emigrate between EU and UK without proper controls and rules being followed, but existing status quo remains.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Holy shit, I just took notice of the news. We have to give £2bn to Europe whilst France, Germany, Italy to name 3 get money back.

Fuck off ya cheeky twats. Oh hang on, its to do with a deal we signed when we were shit(ter), nice one dave.

Respek to dave though for kicking off a bit over this and looking a little bit red and ratty, Im sure I saw a tiny smidge of spit come out of his mouth when he was speaking."

Cameron didn't sign that agreement, Labour did.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"Tory government don't give 2 shits about poor people.ad for EU.didn't we trade with the world before this was formed

Being part of the EU has increased the volume of exports leaving the UK. The EU is the UK's main trading partner, worth more than £400bn a year. It'd be mental to opt out of that kind of revenue. "

The year before we joined the Common Market (EU), our exports with them made up 59% of our total exports.... that figure is now 60%. And don't forget that's with many more countries to export to than the original European 'club'. The net contributions we have made TO the EU far outweighs the massive 1% increase in exports you refer to.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

" The EU counts for over 50% of our exports revenue. That is not weakening the UK. "

It did before we joined it as well. We import more from the EU than we export to it, so trade whether in or out will not be affected.

Also, if we weren't a member of the EU that does not mean that we wouldn't adopt nor comply with their rules and laws, it just means that we'd be able to choose the sensible rules and laws we want to adopt.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"What is good about being in the EU??

I've just spent ages explaining why it's good for the UK

You justified it by the extra trade it brings in.... it doesn't. 59% of our exports were with EU countries BEFORE we joined the EU, that figure over 40 years after joining the EU is now 60%. Woopedoo..

So your argument for staying in is fundamentally flawed... and floored.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

The comments about the trade balance with the EU miss one important point.

What is known as the Rotterdam or Antwerp factor where many British exports to the wider world are funnelled through either of those cities and are then counted as "EU exports"

The actual size of the discrepancy is often argued about, and some say it is allowed for in the final figure, but exist it does and Britain's real exports to the EU are lower than the official figures.

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By *ob_daslerMan
over a year ago

birmingham

Out- one weeks money we pay the eu could build 10 hospitals

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"The comments about the trade balance with the EU miss one important point.

What is known as the Rotterdam or Antwerp factor where many British exports to the wider world are funnelled through either of those cities and are then counted as "EU exports"

Thank you. Proves that trade is no reason to stay in The EU.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

I'll leave a quote from the Global Times, a Chinese government-controlled newspaper, from when Cameron visited in 2013 - "The Cameron administration should acknowledge that the UK is not a big power in the eyes of the Chinese. It is just an old European country apt for travel and study."

There is no evidence that as we face national decline that larger countries will treat us on a like for like basis when it comes to trade. To say that they will is misleading.

It is this uncertainty that a lot of people fear and why a majority will vote to stay in the EU.

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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago

Limavady

Since almost every farmer in UK gets subsidies from Eu if we leave Eu it will cause massive job losses in the agricultural industry and without huge government subsidies will massively increase your food costs.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

"Since almost every farmer in UK gets subsidies from Eu if we leave Eu it will cause massive job losses in the agricultural industry and without huge government subsidies will massively increase your food costs."

The UK government would give them subsidies instead but they would have to pay out more for labour, that would finish a lot of farms unless more subsidies were given.

There is a lot of info on how farmers find it very difficult to recruit British seasonal workers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Get out.

Plenty of up & coming countries for us to deal with.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Out- one weeks money we pay the eu could build 10 hospitals "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The comments about the trade balance with the EU miss one important point.

What is known as the Rotterdam or Antwerp factor where many British exports to the wider world are funnelled through either of those cities and are then counted as "EU exports"

Thank you. Proves that trade is no reason to stay in The EU."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I as a business man who trades not only with EU countries but with others such as Australia, Canada & USA would vote to come out.

There is no reason why trade should suffer free trade agreements such as those set up by EFTA countries to trade with the EU could and would be put in place.

The EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why can't we just have a vote ?

Coz the bank of England dictates

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

The reality is that British farmers are very efficient compared to most of their continental counterparts (most notably the French) and by comparison receive very little from the CAP.

As for the cheap labour, why should Britain have to import foreign fruit and veg pickers while at the same time support around a million able bodied 18-24 year olds on the dole?

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By *wiftieeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow

"Out

The EU is a failed experiment "

out out out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Out,definitely.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

And the biggest recipient of EU agricultural subsidies registered in the UK since the mid 90s is?

TATE AND LYLE EUROPE, who are actually a U.S. Owned company (NOT A farmer!), who in this time have received €594 MILLION.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

As for the cheap labour, why should Britain have to import foreign fruit and veg pickers while at the same time support around a million able bodied 18-24 year olds on the dole?

Indeed, force the farmers to hire people who don't apply for the jobs.

Lol.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

As for the cheap labour, why should Britain have to import foreign fruit and veg pickers while at the same time support around a million able bodied 18-24 year olds on the dole?

Indeed, force the farmers to hire people who don't apply for the jobs.

Lol. "

Or remove the option of sitting on the dole while jobs are available.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

As for the cheap labour, why should Britain have to import foreign fruit and veg pickers while at the same time support around a million able bodied 18-24 year olds on the dole?

Indeed, force the farmers to hire people who don't apply for the jobs.

Lol.

Or remove the option of sitting on the dole while jobs are available."

The UK gov are free to do that - I'm surprised IDS hasn't done it already.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

As for the cheap labour, why should Britain have to import foreign fruit and veg pickers while at the same time support around a million able bodied 18-24 year olds on the dole?

Indeed, force the farmers to hire people who don't apply for the jobs.

Lol.

Or remove the option of sitting on the dole while jobs are available.

The UK gov are free to do that - I'm surprised IDS hasn't done it already. "

Me too. I suppose it's because the modern Tories are Labour in disguise. I'd have done it from day one.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

As for the cheap labour, why should Britain have to import foreign fruit and veg pickers while at the same time support around a million able bodied 18-24 year olds on the dole?

Indeed, force the farmers to hire people who don't apply for the jobs.

Lol.

Or remove the option of sitting on the dole while jobs are available.

The UK gov are free to do that - I'm surprised IDS hasn't done it already.

Me too. I suppose it's because the modern Tories are Labour in disguise. I'd have done it from day one."

Well maybe if you move back to the UK you can stand for election on that platform.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

As for the cheap labour, why should Britain have to import foreign fruit and veg pickers while at the same time support around a million able bodied 18-24 year olds on the dole?

Indeed, force the farmers to hire people who don't apply for the jobs.

Lol.

Or remove the option of sitting on the dole while jobs are available.

The UK gov are free to do that - I'm surprised IDS hasn't done it already.

Me too. I suppose it's because the modern Tories are Labour in disguise. I'd have done it from day one.

Well maybe if you move back to the UK you can stand for election on that platform. "

Absolutely no need to because eventually, when the money REALLY runs out, it will happen. Irrespective of which party is in charge.

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

As for the cheap labour, why should Britain have to import foreign fruit and veg pickers while at the same time support around a million able bodied 18-24 year olds on the dole?

Indeed, force the farmers to hire people who don't apply for the jobs.

Lol.

Or remove the option of sitting on the dole while jobs are available.

The UK gov are free to do that - I'm surprised IDS hasn't done it already.

Me too. I suppose it's because the modern Tories are Labour in disguise. I'd have done it from day one.

Well maybe if you move back to the UK you can stand for election on that platform.

Absolutely no need to because eventually, when the money REALLY runs out, it will happen. Irrespective of which party is in charge."

I'll buy some overalls tomorrow in preparation.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

As for the cheap labour, why should Britain have to import foreign fruit and veg pickers while at the same time support around a million able bodied 18-24 year olds on the dole?

Indeed, force the farmers to hire people who don't apply for the jobs.

Lol.

Or remove the option of sitting on the dole while jobs are available.

The UK gov are free to do that - I'm surprised IDS hasn't done it already.

Me too. I suppose it's because the modern Tories are Labour in disguise. I'd have done it from day one.

Well maybe if you move back to the UK you can stand for election on that platform.

Absolutely no need to because eventually, when the money REALLY runs out, it will happen. Irrespective of which party is in charge.

I'll buy some overalls tomorrow in preparation. "

No need. You are too old

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By *anchestercubMan
over a year ago

manchester & NI

As for the cheap labour, why should Britain have to import foreign fruit and veg pickers while at the same time support around a million able bodied 18-24 year olds on the dole?

Indeed, force the farmers to hire people who don't apply for the jobs.

Lol.

Or remove the option of sitting on the dole while jobs are available.

The UK gov are free to do that - I'm surprised IDS hasn't done it already.

Me too. I suppose it's because the modern Tories are Labour in disguise. I'd have done it from day one.

Well maybe if you move back to the UK you can stand for election on that platform.

Absolutely no need to because eventually, when the money REALLY runs out, it will happen. Irrespective of which party is in charge.

I'll buy some overalls tomorrow in preparation.

No need. You are too old

But when economic Armageddon comes we'll all be back working in the fields surely? Old feudalism has been due a comeback.

I think it best that I get my overalls ready.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

As for the cheap labour, why should Britain have to import foreign fruit and veg pickers while at the same time support around a million able bodied 18-24 year olds on the dole?

Indeed, force the farmers to hire people who don't apply for the jobs.

Lol.

Or remove the option of sitting on the dole while jobs are available.

The UK gov are free to do that - I'm surprised IDS hasn't done it already.

Me too. I suppose it's because the modern Tories are Labour in disguise. I'd have done it from day one.

Well maybe if you move back to the UK you can stand for election on that platform.

Absolutely no need to because eventually, when the money REALLY runs out, it will happen. Irrespective of which party is in charge.

I'll buy some overalls tomorrow in preparation.

No need. You are too old

But when economic Armageddon comes we'll all be back working in the fields surely? Old feudalism has been due a comeback.

I think it best that I get my overalls ready. "

Yes feudalism wouldn't be too bad. Hmmm now where did I put my family tree.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't know enough about the facts and figures to say yes or no. A proper referendum with a debate on all the issues should be held so we can put the uncertainty to bed for a while.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is kind of irrelevant.

The Tories are the only party that will give us a referendum and they wont win the General Election. Labour and the Lib Dems dont want the people to have a say. I know UKIP cant win the General Election but even if they did the public wouldn't get a say either.

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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago

East Manchester

I Keep coming to the conclusion that out is the only option, we have a first past the post election system, the parliament is made up out of MP's who had the most votes in their constituency, even though less than 50% actually voted as a total and less than half voted for them.

Problems occur when laws are formed and enforced which our government claims they had nothing to do with.

If we are always going to have a second tier of government who is unaccountable to us but continue to tax us heavily but never consult us about what we want then why have the lower tier in Westminster if they are only there to claim a salary but cannot actually do anything for us it makes their pre election canvassing with the promises they make absolutely meaningless.

Everyone keeps on about cheap labour and dole scroungers, we are obliged to allow the free movement of all members of the EU, No quotas, No selection,its everyone no exceptions.

The laws say that immigrants are allowed the same access to the same services provided by the state to all who reside here and you cannot discriminate between indigenous and immigrant populations.

Finally everyone keeps on about dole scroungers, there have been multiple cases of people applying for 500+ jobs and getting nowhere, cheap labour from abroad is undercutting local labour and forcing a race to the bottom of the pay scales, in some jobs they are working for the same hourly rate that was in place 10-12 years ago, in fact a recent documentary entitled "working and claiming benefits" highlighted the fact that 4 Million families were claiming benefits and were actually working, that's 16 million people who need benefits to live because their wages are so low the state regards them as in need of financial help even though they are in work, that's 8 X the number of advertised unemployed people claiming unemployment benefits.

As for fruit picking and associated work, the fruit/veg jobs everyone points to when immigrants are involved in taking locals jobs is smoke and mirror politics, the fruit picking season only lasts about 8 weeks, after which the fields are empty of produce and planting needs to get underway, as most of it is mechanised it doesn't keep many in work for long and its seasonal so workers are travelling all over to pick and pack at various places until the season is over, locals cannot afford to pack up and move with the work as the pay is low and much of what is earned is spent on living costs (it is a live to work job with no time or money to do anything else).

Finally, the 18-25 age group has been short changed by all government's companies stopped offering apprenticeships decades ago, they switched to offering work to skilled individuals from EU states instead, they didn't want to fund expensive training for someone who wouldn't be making them profits for up to 4 years, the governments answer was to get them into education and put back the time they entered the job market, this resulted in a 3 year period of grace and saved a lot of embarrassment.

we still have a skills shortage because employers aren't training anyone and still recruit from abroad, and if they can they actually offshore work too getting it done cheaper in a low labour market whose government actually supports their people by setting up schemes where employers can get skilled people from technical college's which are well funded and better equipped than ours are, teaching relevant skills on the most modern equipment available.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Out

The EU is a failed experiment "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I Keep coming to the conclusion that out is the only option, we have a first past the post election system, the parliament is made up out of MP's who had the most votes in their constituency, even though less than 50% actually voted as a total and less than half voted for them.

Problems occur when laws are formed and enforced which our government claims they had nothing to do with.

Everyone keeps on about cheap labour and dole scroungers, we are obliged to allow the free movement of all members of the EU, No quotas, No selection,its everyone no exceptions.

The laws say that immigrants are allowed the same access to the same services provided by the state to all who reside here and you cannot discriminate between indigenous and immigrant populations.

Well written

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Problems occur when laws are formed and enforced which our government claims they had nothing to do with.

Everyone keeps on about cheap labour and dole scroungers, we are obliged to allow the free movement of all members of the EU, No quotas, No selection,its everyone no exceptions.

The laws say that immigrants are allowed the same access to the same services provided by the state to all who reside here and you cannot discriminate between indigenous and immigrant populations.

Well written

Yes very. And I would agree with most of it.

However I would dispute the 8 week fruit and veg season. While it may be true for a particular single crop, the seasons for different crops tend to follow each other. Maybe picking Strawberries for a month, followed by Potatoes, followed by Carrots, followed by... and so on. Maybe not a whole year but considerably longer than 8 weeks.

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E.U. - In or Out?