FabSwingers.com forum: When should the old stop driving?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

When should the elderly stop driving?Had stopped to get diesel earlier. Waiting my turn at a separate pump I saw some ole boy guessing late 70's early 80's who could barely put one foot in front of the other walking out of the shop and getting into the drivers seat. He obviously put car in reverse instead of 1st gear and ended up ramming car behind him. Needless to say the woman wasn't too happy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No one over 41 should be on the road. Apart from when it's mrnotts turn to drive and then I'm happy for the age to be lifted to 56

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By *iggles and BeardyCouple
over a year ago

Bristol

When there gem starts flashing for carousel

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By *uperGuy68Man
over a year ago

Southampton

.......when they're driving in front of me at 20 miles an hour!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The current system needs a big overhaul. I have two elderly relatives (in their early 90's) whom I consider to be dangerous behind the wheel, yet the current system only requires that they declare themselves fit or unfit to drive once over 70.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The current system needs a big overhaul. I have two elderly relatives (in their early 90's) whom I consider to be dangerous behind the wheel, yet the current system only requires that they declare themselves fit or unfit to drive once over 70."

I agree in part. The self certification thing is arse. It's becoming more difficult for new drivers to get a license, in terms of the tests and sheer cost of getting one. But there doesn't seem to be any pruning going on at the top end.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When should the elderly stop driving? ? Now!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think a test should be taken after 70 and every ten years there after

iv had a little old lady pull out in front of me and had to lock up and swerve nearly hitting another car passing me it was scary but the little lady was oblivious to wot happened and drove on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well old people have to go dogging too...leave em be

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/10/14 12:17:08]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think a test should be taken after 70 and every ten years there after

iv had a little old lady pull out in front of me and had to lock up and swerve nearly hitting another car passing me it was scary but the little lady was oblivious to wot happened and drove on

i've just wrote almost the same thing. There defo should be re tests for a certain age.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think elderly folk should be made to sit another theory & practical test at 70 then every 5-10 years after that. They are a liability. maybe not all of them are but it's a big majority. Why should it be so difficult for young learners & so easy for old people who have never sat any tests up to the standard of todays tests. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think elderly folk should be made to sit another theory & practical test at 70 then every 5-10 years after that. They are a liability. maybe not all of them are but it's a big majority. Why should it be so difficult you young learners & so easy for old people who have never sat any tests up to the standard of todays tests. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Me and my family took took the old boys licence away from him when he admitted that he just did not see a woman who he nealy hit!

he was not happy but could see the argument against still trying to drive at over 80 with bad eyesight.

I spend a lot if time on the roads and have seen no end of cunfused pensioners stopped in the road with that now where wss i going look on thier faces.

Not all people are the same but I do agree there sould be a test after 70 even if it's just an hour of driving around with an examiner to asess them.

Did anyone see that 100 and still driving not so long ago? scary or what

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I think ideally everyone should be tested yearly regardless of age. I have seen people of every age drive dangerously, use the incorrect lane on roundabouts, ignore traffic signs, hog the middle lane, stay in the fast lane on dual carriageways doing 40 mph because they want to turn right at the end of a five mile stretch. I agree the elderly are a danger on the roads too but they aren't the only ones.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When they get to their destination.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think a test should be taken after 70 and every ten years there after

iv had a little old lady pull out in front of me and had to lock up and swerve nearly hitting another car passing me it was scary but the little lady was oblivious to wot happened and drove on

I think they should be more frequent to be honest, as health can deteriorate quite rapidly in the elderley.

I think there should be a requirement fir medical certification (from GP) every two years, but with flexibility within such a system for GP to raise concerns at any time in between.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think ideally everyone should be tested yearly regardless of age. I have seen people of every age drive dangerously, use the incorrect lane on roundabouts, ignore traffic signs, hog the middle lane, stay in the fast lane on dual carriageways doing 40 mph because they want to turn right at the end of a five mile stretch. I agree the elderly are a danger on the roads too but they aren't the only ones."

I hate over confident drivers...ones that power around thinking they can get from A to B, ignoring the fact theres other letters to consider.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do the accident statistics back up the view that old people need to lose their license? Seems to me that insurance companies disagree with this threads views as policy costs are not high for most aging drivers.

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By *andy_tomMan
over a year ago

wolverhampton

"well old people have to go dogging too...leave em be

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I drive everyday for eight hours a day in our busy metropolis and I can honestly say the young drivers are more of a hazard than the elderly.

I think statistics from insurance firms will bare this out.

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By *andy_tomMan
over a year ago

wolverhampton

"I drive everyday for eight hours a day in our busy metropolis and I can honestly say the young drivers are more of a hazard than the elderly.

I think statistics from insurance firms will bare this out. "

well said .

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By *ichaelangelaCouple
over a year ago

notts

I think that the (really) eldery of today (70 plus) are the ones that cause most of the problems, even I, as a child, remember how quiet the roads were compared to today and how sluggish the cars were, I think they are stuck in that time warp, where those who passed their test in the 1970s are much better drivers.

however, IMHO all drivers, upon reaching the age of 65 should me made to pass a medical and an eye examination.

bus drivers and lorry drivers have to pass a medical every 5 years no matter what age, but when they reach (i believe) 65, they have to have a yearly medical exam, this should be for all drivers 65 & over

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By *ourgeMan
over a year ago

stourport nr kidderminster

people should have to take a retested after a 60years old

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There comes a time for us all when he either have to or should stop driving. It will be different for everyone but who is to say when it should be? I'm nearer to it than most and I am willing to be tested but I see some terrible driving about me and they are all younger than me. When I passed my driving test over 50 years ago the instructor said, "Right lad, now you've passed the test you start to learn to drive. I am still learning!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem is that most people may pass the test but do not learn to drive!

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I hate over confident drivers...ones that power around thinking they can get from A to B, ignoring the fact theres other letters to consider."

Yep and don't get me started on tail gaters...I have to say in my experience the majority of these are young men and women

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"When they get to their destination. "

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I drive everyday for eight hours a day in our busy metropolis and I can honestly say the young drivers are more of a hazard than the elderly.

I think statistics from insurance firms will bare this out. "

this apart from the driving 8 hours..

hence the premiums for young drivers are through the roof..

old folks may 'dawdle' about but that's far safer than some others who drive like complete morons..

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

".......when they're driving in front of me at 20 miles an hour!

Oh that drives me crazy!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hate over confident drivers...ones that power around thinking they can get from A to B, ignoring the fact theres other letters to consider.

Yep and don't get me started on tail gaters...I have to say in my experience the majority of these are young men and women"

hate tail gaters to i have been known to drive pretty fast on a motorway (not to fast mind) and had a tail gater how ever when he saw my brake lights slam on at 80 it sure made him back off pretty quick

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By *innamon!Woman
over a year ago

no matter

"I think that the (really) eldery of today (70 plus) are the ones that cause most of the problems, even I, as a child, remember how quiet the roads were compared to today and how sluggish the cars were, I think they are stuck in that time warp, where those who passed their test in the 1970s are much better drivers.

however, IMHO all drivers, upon reaching the age of 65 should me made to pass a medical and an eye examination.

Bloody hell thats me nearly on the scrap heap then.. just 3 weeks to go..

I am healthy capable I get my eyes checked. I drive a sports car can use a sat nav am able to park and drive on a motorway. I deal with London traffic too.

I would happily take a test at 75 and have a health check I do not believe people my age are old anymore.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I drive everyday for eight hours a day in our busy metropolis and I can honestly say the young drivers are more of a hazard than the elderly.

I think statistics from insurance firms will bare this out.

well said .

Wasn't it Jasper Carrot who once joked that his mother in law had never had an accident. But seen thousands!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hate over confident drivers...ones that power around thinking they can get from A to B, ignoring the fact theres other letters to consider.

Yep and don't get me started on tail gaters...I have to say in my experience the majority of these are young men and women"

Mainly young ladies that seem to tailgate me. I think, to be fair, there just trying to get a better look at me though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Soon as they get there bus pass god love em

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Every Saturday at 8pm. This means on Sunday the yarn't all out doing 15 mph all over the place

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My grandmother 's neighbour hit reverse by mistake and took out the front of their bungalow ! Had to move out for months whilst the builders sorted it out.

I think we should all be retested at regular intervals, maybe 5 yearly, regardless of age . I see plenty of rubbish younger drivers as well as older.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"My grandmother 's neighbour hit reverse by mistake and took out the front of their bungalow ! Had to move out for months whilst the builders sorted it out.

I think we should all be retested at regular intervals, maybe 5 yearly, regardless of age . I see plenty of rubbish younger drivers as well as older. "

Did that teach them a lesson not to drive again?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I hate over confident drivers...ones that power around thinking they can get from A to B, ignoring the fact theres other letters to consider.

Yep and don't get me started on tail gaters...I have to say in my experience the majority of these are young men and women

Mainly young ladies that seem to tailgate me. I think, to be fair, there just trying to get a better look at me though.

Ah the curse of the handsome devil

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Old people should be allowed to drive from about 10am to midday, then again at 3pm to say 5pm.

That's all though. The rest of the time they should be at home drinking advocaat.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not to worried about the old, its the fucking stupid little girls that cant see over the dashboard of their golfs and sit right on my tail at 70 that concern me

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By *icefellatwoMan
over a year ago

hastings

"When should the elderly stop driving?Had stopped to get diesel earlier. Waiting my turn at a separate pump I saw some ole boy guessing late 70's early 80's who could barely put one foot in front of the other walking out of the shop and getting into the drivers seat. He obviously put car in reverse instead of 1st gear and ended up ramming car behind him. Needless to say the woman wasn't too happy.

too many cars on the road with too many bad drivers too many people on mobile phones and too many coppers with too many revenue cameras trying to catch

too many speeders avoiding too many

speed humps and traffic calming measures

that are totally unsafe

Apart from that its ok

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By *eepster69Man
over a year ago

Dumfries

I'm more in favour of perhaps a reactions test for older drivers. Not an all out driving test.

That said, It may well be something that could be used on all drivers say every 10 years after passing. After all I'm willing to bet you all know drivers younger than that, that shouldn't be on the road.

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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago

hertfordshire

tests every year after 75 eyesight especially

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By *obbytupperMan
over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

however, IMHO all drivers, upon reaching the age of 65 should me made to pass a medical and an eye examination.

Bloody hell thats me nearly on the scrap heap then.. just 3 weeks to go..

I am healthy capable I get my eyes checked. I drive a sports car can use a sat nav am able to park and drive on a motorway. I deal with London traffic too.

I would happily take a test at 75 and have a health check I do not believe people my age are old anymore.

Me too on New Years Eve.

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

Every older person is different ..some can be perfectly capable behind the wheel while some are a death waiting to happen...personally i wouldnt have retests at any age but what i would suggest from aged 70 onward drivers should take a reactions test every year to renew license ..some of the pensioners you see getting out a car beggers belief sometimes while others have no problems at all

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By *icefellatwoMan
over a year ago

hastings

"Every older person is different ..some can be perfectly capable behind the wheel while some are a death waiting to happen...personally i wouldnt have retests at any age but what i would suggest from aged 70 onward drivers should take a reactions test every year to renew license ..some of the pensioners you see getting out a car beggers belief sometimes while others have no problems at all

My dad was a terrible driver lots of little scrapes on his car and he was only fifty and drove so fast he was a

nightmare to sit with

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have never had an insurance claim in the 50 yrs I have been driving but my insurance has gone UP every year because stupid young dickheads go tear arsing around thinking they own the road.The reason I haven't claimed is because I leave plenty of space in front of me and treat every motorist as a complete dick head.If someone jumps in front of that space I just slow down enough to create that space again.I reckon young people should be tested every 3 yrs as I am sure a good tree quarters of them would fail.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

how do you know how tall she was sat in a car

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By *andy_tomMan
over a year ago

wolverhampton

To keep your inshurance cost down change insurance company's , I did nd saved £165, for the same cover .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My grandmother 's neighbour hit reverse by mistake and took out the front of their bungalow ! Had to move out for months whilst the builders sorted it out.

I think we should all be retested at regular intervals, maybe 5 yearly, regardless of age . I see plenty of rubbish younger drivers as well as older.

Did that teach them a lesson not to drive again? "

Yep , they sold their car. It's hard though isn't it, if you live rurally - a car is a bit of a lifeline. So I can see why some drive when they probably shouldn't. Giving up a licence can sometimes mean - needing to move too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The road traffic act requires people to be fit enough to drive so testing is fine for everyone.

The police should be stopping bad drivers, and do so, but find the majority are young folks with poor judgement, bad tempers and a vastly inflated opinion of their own driving ability.

The ones I would like to vapourise with my ray gun are those that insist on join motorways at 40 mph whilst driving in the outside lane of the sliproad. They regularly put my life at risk. More often than not they are women or old guys.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would happily take a refresher course say every five years. If you were dangerous, then yeah a full retest. Having a compulsory test would be a financial burden every time and the majority of people would probably fail due to having picked bad habits over the years. Just my thoughts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do the accident statistics back up the view that old people need to lose their license? Seems to me that insurance companies disagree with this threads views as policy costs are not high for most aging drivers.

However they do hold the title of Uk's second worst drivers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The old should continue driving for as long as they can. It worked for Mister Magoo...

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

How young do you have to be before people see you as a driver that had an accident ?

I guess if you are 30 then your mate who killed someone was just unfortunate.

I guess if you are 40 and you hit a lampost you sue the council for putting it there.

I guess if you are 50 and you reverse into a skip it was too small to see in your mirror.....

But FUCK ME .... if you're a certain age the ignorant ageists just see the number.

A bit like the misogynists who see 'little girls' driving cars.

Good drivers have accidents too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People over 70 should be made to take a retest every year to ensure they are capable of driving safely.

Most of them are not. I regularly almost die as a result of these geriatric drivers.

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By *irimusMan
over a year ago

Burnley

When they knock me off my bike on a roundabout and act like it's my fucking fault.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"People over 70 should be made to take a retest every year to ensure they are capable of driving safely.

Most of them are not. I regularly almost die as a result of these geriatric drivers. "

If YOU regularly nearly die and it's a DIFFERENT 'other' person each time ......

then you are the common factor.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People over 70 should be made to take a retest every year to ensure they are capable of driving safely.

Most of them are not. I regularly almost die as a result of these geriatric drivers.

If YOU regularly nearly die and it's a DIFFERENT 'other' person each time ......

then you are the common factor.

Always geriatrics driving at 30 mph changing lanes when I'm driving much faster than them. The speed limit on the motorway is 70, should be illegal to drive at less than 60 on an a class road or motorway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a very difficult thing to convince someone to stop driving. Especially when they're adamant that they're a good driver.

Many years ago, I had an elderly customer come to the garage every 3/4 months for a new clutch because he couldn't lift his foot off the pedal!

Add to this the fact he was almost deaf & you have one very dangerous motorist!

We tried for nearly two years to convince him to stop but, he refused & bought an automatic instead. It was truly frightening to be in the car with him & I don't scare easily.

I'm certain if his doctor would have spent 2 mins in the car, he would have removed his licence instantly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

its the young ones i fear

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People over 70 should be made to take a retest every year to ensure they are capable of driving safely.

Most of them are not. I regularly almost die as a result of these geriatric drivers.

If YOU regularly nearly die and it's a DIFFERENT 'other' person each time ......

then you are the common factor.

How could you set a minimum speed to drive at ? So an unusual load on the motorway - what would that do? Or the conditions are hazardous so you need to slow down! It's the drivers still going at 80 + in fog and rain that worry me more than the oldies going at 50!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People over 70 should be made to take a retest every year to ensure they are capable of driving safely.

Most of them are not. I regularly almost die as a result of these geriatric drivers. "

I once followed a fellow motorcyclist who rode fast and with great overconfidence, after watching have a very near miss with an oncoming car I questioned his riding style he said "idiots in cars cause him at least one near miss every ride out"

He is dead now, unfortunately some poor innocent motorist has the memory of his broken body to haunt them.

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By *hortieWoman
over a year ago

Northampton

Everyone given a license to operate a vehicle on public roads should pay a nominal fee every 2-3 years for a refresher test, to pass and therefore keep their license valid, regardless of age.

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By *rsIdiotWoman
over a year ago

Bedworth

I'm pretty new to the roads, I can't drive a car and have been riding my vespa to work and back for about three months. In that time I have almost been knocked off my scooter about half a dozen times. Each time it has been by an impatient, arrogant 20/30's man who has either overtaken me in a dangerous place or not left enough room to pull back in after.

In that time I have also witnessed two accidents, again each of them caused by a young man in their late 20's or early 30's.

I know which group of drivers makes me most nervous, and it's not the oldies!

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

How many here will willingly give up their licenses when they are told they are elderly?

Oh I'm sure that now there will be a whole slew of people who will claim they will but the reality in 20, 30, 40, 50 years may be very different.

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By *rsIdiotWoman
over a year ago

Bedworth

I wouldn't want to see my dad give up driving unless it was absolutely necessary. Without him and the motability car that he uses to drive her around, my mum would be housebound

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By *renchbambi xWoman
over a year ago

Need to know basis

"I think a test should be taken after 70 and every ten years there after

iv had a little old lady pull out in front of me and had to lock up and swerve nearly hitting another car passing me it was scary but the little lady was oblivious to wot happened and drove on

I think they should be more frequent to be honest, as health can deteriorate quite rapidly in the elderley.

I think there should be a requirement fir medical certification (from GP) every two years, but with flexibility within such a system for GP to raise concerns at any time in between."

That will make them happy as they charge for such things...as the elderly will probably not have/be able to pay...i wonder who will!!!!

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By *lttattoocoupleCouple
over a year ago

Worcester

At 70 you should have to take another test. And again every 5 years too prove your a competent driver

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To those who have seen dangerous driving.. did you note down the number plate and inform dvla of your concerns?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We'd look silly pulling the caravan without the car!

Susan

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I understood that the only requirement, post 70, is to have an eye test every 3 years.

There should be some kind of physical/cognitive test....but not an ACTUAL age.

My neighbour is 91. Full set if marbles, fit as a fiddle (4th floor and uses stairs several times a day). Absolutely nothing wrong with her driving of a classic Ford Capri...

It varies so much from person to person. I've seen 30 yr olds who should never be on the road!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everyone given a license to operate a vehicle on public roads should pay a nominal fee every 2-3 years for a refresher test, to pass and therefore keep their license valid, regardless of age. "

This is a great thread and should be at government level rather than Fab.

I am a driving instructor and I whole heartedly agree with the above, in my opinion everyone who hasn't passed the theory test should be made to take the test with in 2 years or their licence should be revoked.

I hear the sharp intake of breath...there is a matchoisum about driving and no one will admit to being in the wrong, the Highway Code is a guide to what is expected, however we should all look at the way we drive and take a second to think before we criticise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My mum is 84 and has been driving for years and I trust her totally. But two weeks ago a woman who is 85, hit my mums car in a supermarket car park. the woman couldn't remember her name or where she had her car parked! mum has had her car fixed as it became complicated and now the other driver is denying it happened at all. so we now have to go take pics of car park and write a letter saying what happened!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My mum is 84 and has been driving for years and I trust her totally. But two weeks ago a woman who is 85, hit my mums car in a supermarket car park. the woman couldn't remember her name or where she had her car parked! mum has had her car fixed as it became complicated and now the other driver is denying it happened at all. so we now have to go take pics of car park and write a letter saying what happened! "

Meant to say this woman should not be driving as she couldn't even drive herself home

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By *arry247Couple
over a year ago

Wakefield

"Always geriatrics driving at 30 mph changing lanes when I'm driving much faster than them. The speed limit on the motorway is 70, should be illegal to drive at less than 60 on an a class road or motorway."

Seems someone needs to re-take their driving test the maximum speed on single carriageway A roads is 60.

Anyone who thinks it is safe to drive at maximum speed at all times on any road is a dangerous driver.

First thing to do is change the driving test to ensure those who pass know how to drive.

If a person fails their test they should not be allowed to retake without undertaking more lessons, you used to have to wait 6 months when I took my test.

That would stop many of those who keep trying till they get lucky and pass.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

About 8:30 lol they'll be tired and wanting their hot choclate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"people should have to take a retested after a 60years old

I'll look forward to that in 4 years time! I suggest 70 would be more sensible.

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By *uzzy NavelWoman
over a year ago

so near and yet so far....

What about "foreign" drivers? Some cannot even understand english.

We aren't allowed to drive in China, and wouldn't want too....

My Dad scares me when he's driving, but like another poster said, if he stopped, my Mum would also be deprived.....

I think family should assess their safety....l

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Studies into this have shown that as older drivers age they moderate their driving by not driving in rush hours, during bad weather and change their driving habits to reduce risks. It has also been found that the worst older drivers tend to stop driving leaving only the best on the road.

One study by the Rand Corp found Older drivers (over 65) are only 16% more likely than adult drivers (25 to 64) to be involved in an accident. Younger drivers (15 to 24) were 188% more likely. Their conclusion was that no special measures should be taken to test older drivers.

Looking at their findings it would appear younger drivers should be limited to low performance cars and have a sign with "Caution - Moving Road Hazard: dangerous young driver" fixed to the front and back.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In any accident you should take pictures and collect witnesses. Drivers of all ages tend to suddenly have a different memory of the event as soon as they leave the sceen. Good luck with your claim!

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By *icefellatwoMan
over a year ago

hastings

The Op question about when should old people stop driving is a valid point.

The real problem lies with the fact

that some people for one reason or another

just do not have the ability or aptitude

to drive and that's not criticizing

anybody its just the way things are,

unfortunately you can retake the test for as many times until you pass.

Of course when anybody passes within a few months they think that they are the best drivers in the world.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What about "foreign" drivers? Some cannot even understand english.

We aren't allowed to drive in China, and wouldn't want too....

My Dad scares me when he's driving, but like another poster said, if he stopped, my Mum would also be deprived.....

I think family should assess their safety....l"

I have driven all over Europe and can't speak any other language other than a smidgen of French. I fail to see the logic in your opening sentence.

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By *renchbambi xWoman
over a year ago

Need to know basis

"What about "foreign" drivers? Some cannot even understand english.

We aren't allowed to drive in China, and wouldn't want too....

My Dad scares me when he's driving, but like another poster said, if he stopped, my Mum would also be deprived.....

I think family should assess their safety....l

I have driven all over Europe and can't speak any other language other than a smidgen of French. I fail to see the logic in your opening sentence. "

nor the relevance to this OP

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