FabSwingers.com forum: Rooney Rule

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

What do we all think of this being introduced to british football?

If you're unfamiliar, basically a black candidate MUST be interviewed for every available managerial/coach post in football.

Is it just a case of "you weren't good enough for the job" or do you actually think there is a problem with racism in football when it comes to managerial vacancies?

Just after some views that's all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If someone has the right knowledge/ability to improve a team, what ever ethnicity they are they should get the job... Well that's my opinion anyway.

With all this Kick out racism campaign you'd hope the FA aren't behind a racist approach to managerial position but it wouldn't surprise me the corrupt wankers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What do we all think of this being introduced to british football?

If you're unfamiliar, basically a black candidate MUST be interviewed for every available managerial/coach post in football.

Is it just a case of "you weren't good enough for the job" or do you actually think there is a problem with racism in football when it comes to managerial vacancies?

Just after some views that's all"

What do you think OP?

Basically my view is the numbers of black players is huge.

At present I think two black managers are working in the professional game. So it needs to be looked at. I don't think a guaranteed interview means you will get the job anyway.

I think they should trial it. Recent events show racism is still rife in football, sometimes a drastic change is needed to move things forward.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"What do we all think of this being introduced to british football?

If you're unfamiliar, basically a black candidate MUST be interviewed for every available managerial/coach post in football.

Is it just a case of "you weren't good enough for the job" or do you actually think there is a problem with racism in football when it comes to managerial vacancies?

Just after some views that's all

What do you think OP?

Basically my view is the numbers of black players is huge.

At present I think two black managers are working in the professional game. So it needs to be looked at. I don't think a guaranteed interview means you will get the job anyway.

I think they should trial it. Recent events show racism is still rife in football, sometimes a drastic change is needed to move things forward."

The numbers don't add up.

A position should be appointed on ability - no other criteria. But statistically there seems to be a flaw in opportunities given - in many sports, not just football.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I think the rule itself is a great idea. If black managers/potential managers aren't getting the chances then that's not right. The governing bodies of football are all corrupt in some way but I can't see racism being THAT rife in today's game. I know it's still there, that's been proven, and it needs to be stamped out completely.

But let's say the rule comes in and five years down the line there are still only a small handful of black managers.......what then? Do we just accept that its coincidence that they've not been good enough candidtes?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If a black candidate MUST be up for the job then isn't that itself racism??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it should be trialed, it seems to work well in the states.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If a black candidate MUST be up for the job then isn't that itself racism??

They are just put up for interview no garantee of a job is given.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In my opinion there are too many foreign coaches/managers in the british game which is stopping british coaches black/white/Asian from getting there chances. The problem with coaching it's all about what you've done and if ex players aren't prepared to drop down the leagues then it will always be the same white managers/coaches who get the jobs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it's possibly causing racism as it's excluding non black candidates as they may only be able to short list to say 10 candidates and if 10 black candidates apply then that excludes white candidates? Or am I being a bit blonde and not getting the point?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

With the ludicrous amount of money in football does anyone e really think a chairman would turn down a manager who could win more games and therefore more money because of the skin colour.

To HAVE to interview one black guy is racist in itself. But like all politically correct rules the one guy who isn't allowed to moan or think the world is against him is the white british, heterosexual, able bodied male.

maybe people do not employ certain people because if they have to sack them then they get the race card out.

Paul Ince and John Barnes have both been outspoken but were both given giod opportunities at big enough clubs but were both shit .... but hey... what do us girls know about football lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And people should worry a lot more about foreign workers on building sites than they should about a game of football

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the rule itself is a great idea. If black managers/potential managers aren't getting the chances then that's not right. The governing bodies of football are all corrupt in some way but I can't see racism being THAT rife in today's game. I know it's still there, that's been proven, and it needs to be stamped out completely.

People will always be judged on how well they perform in the job. If someone is appointed and fail they will be sacked.

Do we do nothing now and in 5 years say.

"So how do we tackle this problem"?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Lots of valid points really. With managers DAVEXXX is right, it's all about track record with managers. No football club will take a risk with a manager, the financial implications of doing a shit job are way too huge. I don't think the Rooney rule will change much. But when the black managers still get turned down for jobs......what next?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lots of valid points really. With managers DAVEXXX is right, it's all about track record with managers. No football club will take a risk with a manager, the financial implications of doing a shit job are way too huge. I don't think the Rooney rule will change much. But when the black managers still get turned down for jobs......what next?"

Do you not think the following appointments were a risk?

Paulo Di Canio

Felix Magath

Dave Hockaday

David Moyes (I'm joking)

Once clubs know it's not working they sack the manager and get another one. Fulham had 4 managers last season.

If you don't get the chance to speak to someone put your ideas across. You don't have any chance of being successful.

You have to take steps to change things or they remain the same.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Felix magath and Paulo di canio did well in their previous jobs though, so yes they were risks, but they made some degree of sense.

Someon said it earlier, managers....black or White.....need to be willing to manage in the lower leagues and work their way up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This issue pops up every few months or so, and all we hear about is the lack of black managers in our game.

But exactly how many black former players go for and achieve their coaching badges remains a mystery, maybe there aren't that many, if there are a lot and they aren't getting the chance they deserve, then clearly something needs to change.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Magath, di canio had previous success as for Dave Hackaday he had set up the first footballing academy in England a model that most clubs now use as well as stints coaching in lower leagues , risky yes but he was doing something to get his name out there to enable him to be in a position to get a big job such as Leeds

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Felix magath and Paulo di canio did well in their previous jobs though, so yes they were risks, but they made some degree of sense.

Someon said it earlier, managers....black or White.....need to be willing to manage in the lower leagues and work their way up"

They do and have:

Paul Ince

Chris Powell

Keith Curle

Keith Alexander

The numbers still don't add up.

Look at this Barcelona and AC Milan have both had black managers. Here in England which is perceived to have a better reputation for equal opportunities. No major team has had a black manager why?

How comes Gareth Southgate walked into a high level job and Paul Ince had to start at Macclesfield?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Magath, di canio had previous success as for Dave Hackaday he had set up the first footballing academy in England a model that most clubs now use as well as stints coaching in lower leagues , risky yes but he was doing something to get his name out there to enable him to be in a position to get a big job such as Leeds"

Dave Hockaday should never have had that job and the poor guy probably won't get another one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Felix magath and Paulo di canio did well in their previous jobs though, so yes they were risks, but they made some degree of sense.

Someon said it earlier, managers....black or White.....need to be willing to manage in the lower leagues and work their way up

They do and have:

Paul Ince

Chris Powell

Keith Curle

Keith Alexander

The numbers still don't add up.

Look at this Barcelona and AC Milan have both had black managers. Here in England which is perceived to have a better reputation for equal opportunities. No major team has had a black manager why?

How comes Gareth Southgate walked into a high level job and Paul Ince had to start at Macclesfield?"

Gareth Southgate was at boro when they sacked manager. Paul Ince worked in premiership with Blackburn and did nothing ...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

That's a very good point. I know Gareth Southgate has worked closely with the FA since he quite playing but it doesn't mean he should have been able to get a job like that with no previous good managerial experience.

I understand what you're saying with each of those managers but one thing still remains........none of them did a very good job

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The point is the same in all walks of life... if your good enough the colour won't matter. .. look at that chief of police.. He was only given the job because he WAS black and look how that turned out.

Fire brigade and police went through a stage where they actually said preferential candidates will be ethnical minority.

And as I said previously a lot won't employ ethnic minority because of the race card pulled if they had to get rid of someone. . I don't agree with that sentiment but that's a fact

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The point is the same in all walks of life... if your good enough the colour won't matter. .. "

Swap the word won't for shouldnt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If someone was the best they would get the job ! Is anyone trying to say a black striker who could score 40 goals a season wouldn't get job ? Does anyone complain that most of our G B athletes are Black ? No , because the best get picked ! Should we always have at least one white guy or girl in the relay team ! NO

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By *an_WoodMan
over a year ago

Stafford

It's a good idea as it allows opportunity but is not a quota.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Rooney rule was needed in the USA because of the overt racism that exists over there. In this country a few black managers have worked and been reasonably successful at lower levels. Edwin Stein probably being the most successful. Some high profile ex players like Barnes and Wright have always said they wouldn't want to manage.

You only have to listen to Leroy Rosenior on the football league show to understand why he doesn't have a high profile managerial job. The guy is clueless.

The right candidates will get jobs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If someone was the best they would get the job ! Is anyone trying to say a black striker who could score 40 goals a season wouldn't get job ? Does anyone complain that most of our G B athletes are Black ? No , because the best get picked ! Should we always have at least one white guy or girl in the relay team ! NO

No one is saying managers should be given the job due to the colour. They should be interviewed.

Athletes have to go through trials and qualifiers to get picked. Are you suggesting football managers have a race for the job?

You can't compare football management to this example and the emergency services.

Football is run totally different, if you think racism does not exist in football look at the recent Malky Mackay incident.

He played the sympathy card like a fiddle.

I am being forced out I have done nothing wrong. Vincent Tan got slaughtered by the media when the truth came out.

The FA said it was banter between friends. That should never have been made public.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Rooney rule was needed in the USA because of the overt racism that exists over there. In this country a few black managers have worked and been reasonably successful at lower levels. Edwin Stein probably being the most successful. Some high profile ex players like Barnes and Wright have always said they wouldn't want to manage.

You only have to listen to Leroy Rosenior on the football league show to understand why he doesn't have a high profile managerial job. The guy is clueless.

The right candidates will get jobs. "

Just like Paul Merson and guess what he was Walsall manager.

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By *uessWhosBackAgainMan
over a year ago

London

Not gonna make one bit of difference just gonna waste people's time and going to interviews to make up the numbers most football clubs when they sack a manager have somebody in mind to replace them already and most of the time they have already sounded them out about the job so interviewing a black man or anybody else would be point because most teams already know who they want to appoint.

the real question is why black people are trusted to be sports stars but not trusted in a position of power like management the answer institutionalised racism untill that changes nothing will change and before anybody says there is no such thing just look at the amount of black footballers in this country alone compared to the one or is it now two black managers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My view if they have the ability give them the interview, that's how it works in the normal world we are all in.

If they don't have what it takes black white or Asian, then they shouldn't even get a look in, its what happens in a normal job so why is this any different.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not gonna make one bit of difference just gonna waste people's time and going to interviews to make up the numbers most football clubs when they sack a manager have somebody in mind to replace them already and most of the time they have already sounded them out about the job so interviewing a black man or anybody else would be point because most teams already know who they want to appoint.

So what do you suggest just carry on with the current system?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My view if they have the ability give them the interview, that's how it works in the normal world we are all in.

If they don't have what it takes black white or Asian, then they shouldn't even get a look in, its what happens in a normal job so why is this any different. "

Football is not the normal world people earn nearly half a million pounds a week for kicking a football around.

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By *uessWhosBackAgainMan
over a year ago

London

So what do you suggest just carry on with the current system?"

I didn't say that now did I? I suggest you deal with the institutionalised racism first because that is a major part of it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My view if they have the ability give them the interview, that's how it works in the normal world we are all in.

If they don't have what it takes black white or Asian, then they shouldn't even get a look in, its what happens in a normal job so why is this any different.

Football is not the normal world people earn nearly half a million pounds a week for

kicking a football around."

And your point is?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If Thier was institutional racism ? Thier wouldn't be any black players !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So what do you suggest just carry on with the current system?

I didn't say that now did I? I suggest you deal with the institutionalised racism first because that is a major part of it "

I am asking you how would you go about starting that process. Saying it's not going to make one bit of difference is just accepting that's how it is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My view if they have the ability give them the interview, that's how it works in the normal world we are all in.

If they don't have what it takes black white or Asian, then they shouldn't even get a look in, its what happens in a normal job so why is this any different.

Football is not the normal world people earn nearly half a million pounds a week for

kicking a football around.

And your point is? "

You can't compare it to a normal job.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My view if they have the ability give them the interview, that's how it works in the normal world we are all in.

If they don't have what it takes black white or Asian, then they shouldn't even get a look in, its what happens in a normal job so why is this any different.

Football is not the normal world people earn nearly half a million pounds a week for

kicking a football around.

And your point is?

You can't compare it to a normal job."

I can and I did,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The point is the same in all walks of life... if your good enough the colour won't matter. ..

Swap the word won't for shouldnt. "

The first post here says it all

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By *uessWhosBackAgainMan
over a year ago

London

So what do you suggest just carry on with the current system?

I didn't say that now did I? I suggest you deal with the institutionalised racism first because that is a major part of it

I am asking you how would you go about starting that process. Saying it's not going to make one bit of difference is just accepting that's how it is."

Saying it's not gonna make one bit of difference is just me expressing my opinion it's not accepting anything no I don't have all the answers but I do know the F.A. won't be checking this forum for the answer and putting into place what we think

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock

"Felix magath and Paulo di canio did well in their previous jobs though, so yes they were risks, but they made some degree of sense.

Someon said it earlier, managers....black or White.....need to be willing to manage in the lower leagues and work their way up

They do and have:

Paul Ince

Chris Powell

Keith Curle

Keith Alexander

The numbers still don't add up.

Look at this Barcelona and AC Milan have both had black managers. Here in England which is perceived to have a better reputation for equal opportunities. No major team has had a black manager why?

How comes Gareth Southgate walked into a high level job and Paul Ince had to start at Macclesfield?"

Ruud Gullit was manager of chelsea some years ago in the Premier League, and Chris Hughton has managed west brom, newcastle, and norwich, so there are black managers out there who have managed big clubs in the premier league. I don't agree with this rooney rule personally, i think each individual should be interviewed on their own merits and the job should be given to the best man for the job, race or colour of skin should not come into it.

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By *punkloverCouple
over a year ago

hatfield

I think it is a bit silly really, just like in Westminster having women only interviews to be in the cabinet, surely all of it will do the opposite and could have an undercurrent of resentment towards the candidates, plus do they want the interview knowing they maybe not there because of their skills at the job but to comply with some quota ? I like most people would wish the job was given to the right person regardless of race and gender !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My view if they have the ability give them the interview, that's how it works in the normal world we are all in.

If they don't have what it takes black white or Asian, then they shouldn't even get a look in, its what happens in a normal job so why is this any different.

Football is not the normal world people earn nearly half a million pounds a week for

kicking a football around.

And your point is?

You can't compare it to a normal job.

I can and I did,

I know and if you think being Chelsea manager is the same as bring a manager at Morrison's then fair enough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My view if they have the ability give them the interview, that's how it works in the normal world we are all in.

If they don't have what it takes black white or Asian, then they shouldn't even get a look in, its what happens in a normal job so why is this any different.

Football is not the normal world people earn nearly half a million pounds a week for o

kicking a football around.

And your point is?

You can't compare it to a normal job.

I can and I did,

I know and if you think being Chelsea manager is the same as bring a manager at Morrison's then fair enough. "

Good you brought up Chelsea, so when that job was available after rafa left then Jose threw his name in the hat, was there any point in anybody else on the while planet applying for that position,

My final point on this topic.

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By *rsIdiotWoman
over a year ago

Bedworth

"Felix magath and Paulo di canio did well in their previous jobs though, so yes they were risks, but they made some degree of sense.

Someon said it earlier, managers....black or White.....need to be willing to manage in the lower leagues and work their way up

They do and have:

Paul Ince

Chris Powell

Keith Curle

Keith Alexander

The numbers still don't add up.

Look at this Barcelona and AC Milan have both had black managers. Here in England which is perceived to have a better reputation for equal opportunities. No major team has had a black manager why?

How comes Gareth Southgate walked into a high level job and Paul Ince had to start at Macclesfield?"

My club Notts County employed the services of both Paul Ince and Keith Curle.......both were sacked because they were not getting the results that were expected of them.

Incidentally, Paul Ince claimed he was sacked because he's black. No Mr Ince, you were sacked because you were a dreadful manager who was more interested in complaining about things related to your skin colour than actually doing your job properly.

When our current manager was appointed I was not entirely happy, he had very little experience but was a former player for the club . So far, he's doing a reasonable job

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The point is the same in all walks of life... if your good enough the colour won't matter. ..

Swap the word won't for shouldnt. "

No.. i chose the word won't because it won't matter...

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

"This issue pops up every few months or so, and all we hear about is the lack of black managers in our game.

I would agree with this.

Make sure there is a problem,

Knee jerk reactions,and tokenism,

Are more likely to exasperate,

Than eradicate.

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By *reelove1969Couple
over a year ago

bristol

its a yawn to me ..next thing we will need so many women managers !

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By *ratty_DamselWoman
over a year ago

Greater London

"And people should worry a lot more about foreign workers on building sites than they should about a game of football "

Err, what does your comment have to do with the question asked by the OP?

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By *reelove1969Couple
over a year ago

bristol

its reverse rascism ...lets interview everyone with one leg as well just incase they were being discriminated against !

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"its a yawn to me ..next thing we will need so many women managers !"

And then people will be asking why there aren't any black female managers!

Seriously, though, I was in a job once where I was told to take on a black or asian person... to 'balance the numbers'... so I did. He was not the best person for the job, but he was the best black candidate I interviewed. He pulled the performance of my team down, and created resentment toward him from them.

And on the occasions that I've either had to discipline or sack a black or asian person, in EVERY case the race card has been pulled....

I even interviewed someone once and his interpreter turned up with him.... and when I stopped the interview there and then, they accused me of being racist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have been in workplaces and have seen people go for promotions and they have not got the job. When they were clearly the better candidate, working alongside both people I saw that first hand.

But we are talking about football here anyway and the Rooney Rule.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Someone else made another good point last night......if you were a black manager, how would you feel knowing you'd only got an interview because you were black, rather than because the board thought you might be a good candidate on merit?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Someone else made another good point last night......if you were a black manager, how would you feel knowing you'd only got an interview because you were black, rather than because the board thought you might be a good candidate on merit?"

You would not feel good of course not. But anyone who has been out of work will know if you keep applying for jobs you can do and keep getting overlooked. That will eat away at you and your confidence eventually you will give up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good thread OP always good to get the views of others. Even if I don't always agree. That's enough from me off to look at some tits.

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