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parking penalty notice.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I went to Blackpool a few weeks ago and parked in a private car park with an automated ticket machine. I received a notice through the post a couple of weeks later telling me I had not bought a valid ticket. I immediately contacted their website to go through the appeal process. They have CCTV of me entering and exiting. But here is the thing, I bought a ticket over and above the time I would need but I may have put I'm the registration of my other more regularly used car, out of habit. They have not stated in their letter that a ticket was not seen, just not for that cars reg. As they have CCTV they should know the car whose reg was used never entered the car park and it was an honest mistake. Is it worth fighting all the way? They want £60 rising to £100 by 2nd Oct.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd fight it.

I've appealed about fifteen parking tickets and only had to pay one of them.

If you are in the right you shouldn't have to pay.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

fight it and explain that you put in the wrong reg u still paid to park a car there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Def appeal it, we have done and won our case!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Morally right - Yes. Legally right - Possibly not, as the ticket would have to apply to the car given the requirement for registration.

Its clearly an honest mistake and one would hope the company see it that way, however i wouldn't be surprised if they don't.

It will also depend on whats on the paperwork, where the signs were, warnings etc etc.

not enough detail to answer over here, but if you want to PM me ill see whether i can help.

(Im a lawyer)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it's a private car park then ignore it, they cannot do anything! It's an invitation to enter into contract with yourself to exchange monies. Don't sign anything, just ignore them. They send stupid letters saying ballifs etc get involved, but they never do it, it's all bollocks.

Go onto YouTube and google "watchdog PCN", and there is a an expert explaining how to make a lovely paper aeroplane out of the lovely letter they sent you!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Appeal! Unless they know 500% for sure they would win a court case over it they wont fight.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

All the examples I have read about said to fight it and flatly refuse. I do like an argument so I think that's settled that for me! Thanks.

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By *imply_SensualMan
over a year ago

warrington

If you can provide them with evidence that you own the other vehicle and then ask them if that reg was used to buy a ticket and then whether that reg passed through their cameras, they 'should' in theory accept the explanation.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

I had one and Im not paying it, its from a parking company. If it was a council or the police Id pay it.

Not worth the paper its written on.

Check out the money saving expert website

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By *iz78Woman
over a year ago

wirral


"If it's a private car park then ignore it, they cannot do anything! It's an invitation to enter into contract with yourself to exchange monies. Don't sign anything, just ignore them. They send stupid letters saying ballifs etc get involved, but they never do it, it's all bollocks.

Go onto YouTube and google "watchdog PCN", and there is a an expert explaining how to make a lovely paper aeroplane out of the lovely letter they sent you!"

This above is bollocks...

By parking up on private land you enter into a contract with the landowner to adhere to the regulations of the car park.

Appeal your pcn and if you are not happy with the outcome you may then appeal to POPLA. The parking company will supply you with your individual popla code in your appeal rejection letter.

Legit parking companies who are members of the BPA do not send bailiffs round but will pass on the owner detail to a debt recovery agency who then take you to county court if the pcn is ignored

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If it's a private car park then ignore it, they cannot do anything! It's an invitation to enter into contract with yourself to exchange monies. Don't sign anything, just ignore them. They send stupid letters saying ballifs etc get involved, but they never do it, it's all bollocks.

Go onto YouTube and google "watchdog PCN", and there is a an expert explaining how to make a lovely paper aeroplane out of the lovely letter they sent you!"

to this. Just ignore it, they cannot legally enforce it, I'm a driver and I've had about 5 tickets in the last couple of years and paid NONE of them!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

stick it in the bucket...

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"If you can provide them with evidence that you own the other vehicle and then ask them if that reg was used to buy a ticket and then whether that reg passed through their cameras, they 'should' in theory accept the explanation."

They managed, through the dvla, to find my name and address from the reg of the car I was in. If they have evidence that the ticket displayed had the reg of my other car, then the dvla can tell them I own that car. The same cctv that caught me in the car I parkedshould also show that the car that I was not in but whose reg I used was not in the carpark at that time. If they have no photographic evidence of the car being either ticketless or with a supposed invalid ticket, then they have no leg to stand on as they have to prove I was in the wrong. I am pretty sureits a scam on their part, as they have tried it on with a few people from this carpark (according to the council), they have even tried it with blue badge holders.

Apparently they have no legal right to issue a penalty, never mind enforce it. If it goes to court, all they can claim is lossin revenue as damages. That would be the princely sum of £3.40. Hardly worth taking to court is it? If I have to pay them the £60, they will be getting it in the form of about two or three dozen cheques of varying amounts. Fuck em!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just ignore it. I've had 3 in the last 12months and ignored each letter they've sent.

Each letter gets more and more threatening.

I never ever acknowledge their letters.

They are not legally enforceable.

By the way, I'm not a serial offender.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

fight it - human error - they had money for a space taken simple - get them to explain where the car was with the number you put in and nobody puts money in for the fun of it - gawd red tape when common sense should be used

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By *icked weaselCouple
over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..


"Just ignore it. I've had 3 in the last 12months and ignored each letter they've sent.

Each letter gets more and more threatening.

I never ever acknowledge their letters.

They are not legally enforceable.

By the way, I'm not a serial offender.

"

Totally Agree..

But if the Ticket is issued with Local Council - its advisable to pay..

Think I might be right but feel free to correct..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you ever watched that bailiff programme where the 2 heavies come round to collect unpaid and ignored debt - think you have to pay for that priveledge too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If it's a private car park then ignore it, they cannot do anything! It's an invitation to enter into contract with yourself to exchange monies. Don't sign anything, just ignore them. They send stupid letters saying ballifs etc get involved, but they never do it, it's all bollocks.

Go onto YouTube and google "watchdog PCN", and there is a an expert explaining how to make a lovely paper aeroplane out of the lovely letter they sent you!

This above is bollocks...

By parking up on private land you enter into a contract with the landowner to adhere to the regulations of the car park.

Appeal your pcn and if you are not happy with the outcome you may then appeal to POPLA. The parking company will supply you with your individual popla code in your appeal rejection letter.

Legit parking companies who are members of the BPA do not send bailiffs round but will pass on the owner detail to a debt recovery agency who then take you to county court if the pcn is ignored"

Actually the above is bollocks as what constitutes a contract under English law is two party signed agreement. The parking company would have to prove their loss, which wouldn't be worth the time or court fees.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fight it!!!!! We got a parking ticket in Bristol a few months ago. The ticket mechine had a fault so we rang the number displayed and told them

. Anyway on getting back we found we had a ticket and after 2 emails it got sorted x

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I'd not reply to the notice. Check moneysavingexpert for advice on private parking penalties. They don't know who the driver is and I'd totally refuse to waste my time on them.

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

Always worth a fight - I just won a case over a traffic fine!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"you ever watched that bailiff programme where the 2 heavies come round to collect unpaid and ignored debt - think you have to pay for that priveledge too "

Bailiffs or even private "heavies" can only act if you default on a county court judgement. If you haven't been to court or you haven't ignored a court order and they come round and threaten you, they are the ones in the wrong.

Debt collectors have to work within the law too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I went to Blackpool a few weeks ago and parked in a private car park with an automated ticket machine. I received a notice through the post a couple of weeks later telling me I had not bought a valid ticket. I immediately contacted their website to go through the appeal process. They have CCTV of me entering and exiting. But here is the thing, I bought a ticket over and above the time I would need but I may have put I'm the registration of my other more regularly used car, out of habit. They have not stated in their letter that a ticket was not seen, just not for that cars reg. As they have CCTV they should know the car whose reg was used never entered the car park and it was an honest mistake. Is it worth fighting all the way? They want £60 rising to £100 by 2nd Oct."

Its an easy mistake. Send them proof of your ownership of both registrations and appeal. you could send a cheque with paid under duress on it also if you are inclined to pay now.

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)

I got out of a parking ticket once that was right but they put the colour of my car wrong so didn't pay.

All details have to match that of registration otherwise ticket is invalid.

My car was registerd as dark metallic green and the ticket said black

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seeing as this is a swinging site I believe the only thing you can do is fuck 'em!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I thought i got done a few weeks ago as i didn't see the sign until i drove out, so i did a little research.

If its a traffic warden/council issued ticket then its a parking fine, it can be challenged if you have grounds.

If its issued by a private company, its not a fine but an invoice. you can ignore it as the costs associated with court action make it prohibitive for them to chase usually, so eventually they will most likely drop it. You can write to them refusing to pay their invoice as you paid to park on the facilities but entered incorrect data into their system- but essentially you paid for a service and used it within the time constraints set.

A bit of research should give you the answers to help fight it, but tread carefully on the wording to avoid accepting it as a fine/bill

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I had a fine in 2009 (£70 or £35 if paid within 14days) from Stoke in Trent council anyway I ignored it and they spent me letters but I just thought it'll go away, anyway 2years later a van pulled up outside my drive and out popped two enforcement officers saying they came to clamp and take my car away unless I paid £725 straight away. I was shocked at this and tried to negotiate with them (this was a Saturday) I had 200 on me in cash and told them I don't have the money the guy said if you pay £500 on Monday morning it would be a end of the matter. What I learned after was that inside the van the enforcement officers use is a anpr camera and if your registration comes up as having outstanding fines they can buy the debt from councils ie I owed £125 after that 2 years then the enforcement officers can charge what ever they feel like. I learnt a very important lesson of never taking these things lightly, luckily it was only £500

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If it's a private car park then ignore it, they cannot do anything! It's an invitation to enter into contract with yourself to exchange monies. Don't sign anything, just ignore them. They send stupid letters saying ballifs etc get involved, but they never do it, it's all bollocks.

Go onto YouTube and google "watchdog PCN", and there is a an expert explaining how to make a lovely paper aeroplane out of the lovely letter they sent you!"

As above is totally true do not pay this fine !!! Send the letter back with the words No Contract return to sender on it and I guarantee you will not be prosicuted I've used this method so many times and it works !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Only people that can enforce this is councils and police. Ignore it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If it's a private car park then ignore it, they cannot do anything! It's an invitation to enter into contract with yourself to exchange monies. Don't sign anything, just ignore them. They send stupid letters saying ballifs etc get involved, but they never do it, it's all bollocks.

Go onto YouTube and google "watchdog PCN", and there is a an expert explaining how to make a lovely paper aeroplane out of the lovely letter they sent you!

This above is bollocks...

By parking up on private land you enter into a contract with the landowner to adhere to the regulations of the car park.

Appeal your pcn and if you are not happy with the outcome you may then appeal to POPLA. The parking company will supply you with your individual popla code in your appeal rejection letter.

Legit parking companies who are members of the BPA do not send bailiffs round but will pass on the owner detail to a debt recovery agency who then take you to county court if the pcn is ignored

Actually the above is bollocks as what constitutes a contract under English law is two party signed agreement. The parking company would have to prove their loss, which wouldn't be worth the time or court fees."

This

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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago

East Manchester

Fight it, stating your case and photocopies of log book for both vehicles as proof of genuine human error.

If you ignore it you risk escalating the fine, you will be charged with denial of use of assets (1 car parking space) for the time you were parked, and believe it or not they could get you for fraud too (wrong registration number).keep up with the paperwork and send an appeals letter to their registration body too.

They won't take being ignored lightly, they will escalate it and it could go as far as seizure of your disposable assets your car, they know where you live remember.

You have tacit consentual agreement to their conditions when you parked in their car park so ignore them at your own risk.

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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago

Hertford


"I went to Blackpool a few weeks ago and parked in a private car park with an automated ticket machine. I received a notice through the post a couple of weeks later telling me I had not bought a valid ticket. I immediately contacted their website to go through the appeal process. They have CCTV of me entering and exiting. But here is the thing, I bought a ticket over and above the time I would need but I may have put I'm the registration of my other more regularly used car, out of habit. They have not stated in their letter that a ticket was not seen, just not for that cars reg. As they have CCTV they should know the car whose reg was used never entered the car park and it was an honest mistake. Is it worth fighting all the way? They want £60 rising to £100 by 2nd Oct."
. If it is a council park you can appeal. If a private company , you can take a chance and just ignore. Their appeals process is a waste of time /. If however you were to receive a County Court Summons for non payment , make sure you respond promptly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If it's a private car park then ignore it, they cannot do anything! It's an invitation to enter into contract with yourself to exchange monies. Don't sign anything, just ignore them. They send stupid letters saying ballifs etc get involved, but they never do it, it's all bollocks.

Go onto YouTube and google "watchdog PCN", and there is a an expert explaining how to make a lovely paper aeroplane out of the lovely letter they sent you!

This above is bollocks...

By parking up on private land you enter into a contract with the landowner to adhere to the regulations of the car park.

Appeal your pcn and if you are not happy with the outcome you may then appeal to POPLA. The parking company will supply you with your individual popla code in your appeal rejection letter.

Legit parking companies who are members of the BPA do not send bailiffs round but will pass on the owner detail to a debt recovery agency who then take you to county court if the pcn is ignored

Actually the above is bollocks as what constitutes a contract under English law is two party signed agreement. The parking company would have to prove their loss, which wouldn't be worth the time or court fees."

Exactly

They have issued you with an invoice nothing more

You can't have a one sided contract.

For example

I put a note through your door saying 'unless you contact me within an hour I will be purchasing your car in the drive for £1 and opening this letter is acceptance of the contract'

You think that's legal? Same thing

Op possibly owes them lost revenue for the parking space....offer £5 for their trouble. They can't charge unreasonable 'admin' charges eithe.

I've fought loads of these and never lost including the enforceable Penalty Charge Notices too

These cunts pray on vulnerable people with their 'pay half now and we call it a day' bollox

Personally if I'm in the right I would fight them all the way and have done.

Loads of info online as mentioned.

Be aware the law changed wrt all this when clamping was made illegal. They no longer need to prove who the driver was...reg keeper gets contacted now

You will need to hold your nerve if you wish to fight as they will try and threaten you

Good luck and get yerself up to speed with the legislation

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fight it, stating your case and photocopies of log book for both vehicles as proof of genuine human error.

If you ignore it you risk escalating the fine, you will be charged with denial of use of assets (1 car parking space) for the time you were parked, and believe it or not they could get you for fraud too (wrong registration number).keep up with the paperwork and send an appeals letter to their registration body too.

They won't take being ignored lightly, they will escalate it and it could go as far as seizure of your disposable assets your car, they know where you live remember.

You have tacit consentual agreement to their conditions when you parked in their car park so ignore them at your own risk."

It is NOT a fine

It's an INVOICE

A private parking company can't issue fines

Councils etc can issue fines.. Big difference

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I'm not worried at all, i've read up on it, and they have'nt a leg to stand on. The most they will be getting out of me is £3.40.

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By *ratty_DamselWoman
over a year ago

Greater London

Its not legally binding.

Unless a ticket is issued by a council traffic ward or police on a public highway, forget about it. Private car parks can't do anything unless YOU let them

Check Martinsmoneysupermarket site if you don't believe me. I now always park free in private carparks. When the letter comes through demanding payment I just bin it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bin it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have had a couple of private carpark fines before.. Have always paid them because of the tv programmes I've watched and what they do if you fail to do so.. Didn't dare ignore them.. And now you tell me there was no need to.. Great!! I'll know in future thanks guys

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its an interesting situation as they are not legally enforceable but and its a big but they can get it registered as a default and an unpaid debt which can seriously affect your credit score. The reality is only a fool would ignore the best bet is to get in contact tell them the circumstances and point out you paid and won't be paying again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not legally binding.

Unless a ticket is issued by a council traffic ward or police on a public highway, forget about it. Private car parks can't do anything unless YOU let them

Check Martinsmoneysupermarket site if you don't believe me. I now always park free in private carparks. When the letter comes through demanding payment I just bin it. "

If you parked in ours at work you would get keyed down both sides when the CCTV was having a blip or worse get blocked in for 3 days lie a guy did in feb.

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By *avebi48Man
over a year ago

Lordswood


"If it's a private car park then ignore it, they cannot do anything! It's an invitation to enter into contract with yourself to exchange monies. Don't sign anything, just ignore them. They send stupid letters saying ballifs etc get involved, but they never do it, it's all bollocks.

Go onto YouTube and google "watchdog PCN", and there is a an expert explaining how to make a lovely paper aeroplane out of the lovely letter they sent you!

This above is bollocks...

By parking up on private land you enter into a contract with the landowner to adhere to the regulations of the car park.

Appeal your pcn and if you are not happy with the outcome you may then appeal to POPLA. The parking company will supply you with your individual popla code in your appeal rejection letter.

Legit parking companies who are members of the BPA do not send bailiffs round but will pass on the owner detail to a debt recovery agency who then take you to county court if the pcn is ignored"

Only the local authority can issue a PCN, a private firm cannot but they make theirs look like one which blurs the law a bit for the receiver and preys on their fears, especially with the escalating cost ladder. Best to check if it is a legit PCN and if not do not communicate with them at all.

Their legal and bailiff are usually in the same office or a home address, check them in detail if you receive anything. After a few letters they usually give up.

Not sure if we're allowed to post links but google "fake PCN", lots of info out there.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The only contact there is is an automated payment line, a PO box number in chorley and an appeal procedure via a website. It is impossible to actually speak to anyone in real time. I have all the evidence I require that proves I paid for a ticket. They have not provided ANY evidence to me that I did not have a valid ticket anyway. Unless they can prove that my ticket was invalid/missing then they cannot claim loss of revenue for the space (the PCN is bollocks and they know it - thats just them trying it on). As it is, the photographic evidence of my supposed invalid ticket will show the registration of my other car. I have not supplied them with the registration of that car in my appeal. If they have it, they can trace the name and address via the dvla (as they did from the car i actually parked that was on their cctv). If they think that they could win that in court then they are more than welcome to try. Even then, they will be getting £3.40, not £60 and certainly not £100.

I suppose they have have just got so used to people getting scared and coughing up immediately. They have tried to make the PCN look like an official legal document, but as everyone has said, a private car park cannot issue a valid PCN, only the council and the police can. This is going to be fun!

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By *avebi48Man
over a year ago

Lordswood


"The only contact there is is an automated payment line, a PO box number in chorley and an appeal procedure via a website. It is impossible to actually speak to anyone in real time. I have all the evidence I require that proves I paid for a ticket. They have not provided ANY evidence to me that I did not have a valid ticket anyway. Unless they can prove that my ticket was invalid/missing then they cannot claim loss of revenue for the space (the PCN is bollocks and they know it - thats just them trying it on). As it is, the photographic evidence of my supposed invalid ticket will show the registration of my other car. I have not supplied them with the registration of that car in my appeal. If they have it, they can trace the name and address via the dvla (as they did from the car i actually parked that was on their cctv). If they think that they could win that in court then they are more than welcome to try. Even then, they will be getting £3.40, not £60 and certainly not £100.

I suppose they have have just got so used to people getting scared and coughing up immediately. They have tried to make the PCN look like an official legal document, but as everyone has said, a private car park cannot issue a valid PCN, only the council and the police can. This is going to be fun!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The only contact there is is an automated payment line, a PO box number in chorley and an appeal procedure via a website. It is impossible to actually speak to anyone in real time. I have all the evidence I require that proves I paid for a ticket. They have not provided ANY evidence to me that I did not have a valid ticket anyway. Unless they can prove that my ticket was invalid/missing then they cannot claim loss of revenue for the space (the PCN is bollocks and they know it - thats just them trying it on). As it is, the photographic evidence of my supposed invalid ticket will show the registration of my other car. I have not supplied them with the registration of that car in my appeal. If they have it, they can trace the name and address via the dvla (as they did from the car i actually parked that was on their cctv). If they think that they could win that in court then they are more than welcome to try. Even then, they will be getting £3.40, not £60 and certainly not £100.

I suppose they have have just got so used to people getting scared and coughing up immediately. They have tried to make the PCN look like an official legal document, but as everyone has said, a private car park cannot issue a valid PCN, only the council and the police can. This is going to be fun!"

Their proof will be photos of your car entering and leaving and the Reg no not correlating to any payment with that no on it. (I am assuming its one of those where you type your reg no in when paying from what you have said). Now for £60 or £100 they won't pursue legally just register an unpaid debt but they will try to accumulate it to 1k plus then is viable to pursue through other means. End off though it will be hard of them to make you pay without loosing money but keep an eye on underhand tactics.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

But the reg i put on the ticket was for my other car. I bought a ticket and the fact that the reg printed on that ticket is for one of my cars (that never entered the carpark), proves i bought one. They can fuck right off!

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By *eamgbukCouple (MM)
over a year ago

sunny york

As someone who used to own a wheelclamping and traffic management company, I am pretty qualified to comment.

There is an argument that you are under an implied contract, however, no real successful case has been made by any parking control company. They really don't want to test this, as a loss would be disastrous.

You will get many threatening and demanding letters. Ignore them all!

The only time you reply. ..and this include the parking ticket, is if you receive a county court summons. ... I would be surprised if you did.

They will go down the route of least resistance, knowing that some will pay immediately, some will take a little persuasion and others will be too tough to crack....be the latter.

This of course ONLY applies to private parking tickets. ...NOT council or Police ones!

Feel free to message me if you want any more info.

Good luck

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Plus they cannot legally issue a PCN, only the council or police can. All they can do is claim loss of earnings, and that would be £3.40.

I wouldn't mind but I put £4 in the machine as I only had pound coins! They were up on the deal to start with!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"But the reg i put on the ticket was for my other car. I bought a ticket and the fact that the reg printed on that ticket is for one of my cars (that never entered the carpark), proves i bought one. They can fuck right off!"

If you could talk to someone you could get it across but the hard fact they see is a car entering, leaving and not having a corresponding ticket.

Do us all a favor keep an update on this one as it will be interesting to see how they play it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I can see them going very quiet and skulking off to find their next victim.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The hard fact is, they have not provided proof to me of any guilt on my part. Without that, they can whistle. Innocent until proven guilty, and even then, the circumstances I have set out in detail to them, prove I bought a ticket, should they bother to check the details.

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By *avebi48Man
over a year ago

Lordswood


"I can see them going very quiet and skulking off to find their next victim."

nah, you'll get a couple more letters trying to escalate things from my own experience of this, just ignore. Perhaps hang onto them in a file marked "con artists" or something for a while in case you need to refer back to them.

When it happened to me it was pulling into a station to pick someone up. No visible notices as buses parked on the main road completely hid all signs, so no warning at all that it was private parking. Was in & out in less than 3 mins. Didn't notice the girl who leapt out of a van to grab a photo of the car, very sneaky tactic. No CCTV or anything to prove when I entered or left. Took a couple of months then no more letters, binned them 6 months or so later

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

My local council paper recycling has dealt most efficiently with these shoddy intimidating bits of paper that they send. They don't bother sending them now, I must be like those lucky Wonga customers who are automatically let off from paying.

Don't be a victim of intimidation.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Got a letter today announcing that they had decided to let me off as a gesture of good will but I really should be more careful when entering details into their machine. How very magnanimous of them!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good on ya for sticking to your guns, I've never ever paid one of those private company charges yet.

They think intimidation tactics will force people to pay, fuck that!

Once I even ripped one of them up in front of the guy that was sticking it to my windscreen on a supermarket car park. His face was priceless

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