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"Join a relevant forum on the Internet, we have had a multitude of cars and getting the knowledge from devotees of each marque is invaluable. " Agreed, the information on those sites is invaluable.... 
As for the OP's issue I'd say it's most likely a blocked EGR valve (common on all diesel engines and in my opinion should be part of a service).
Citroen will tell you that you need a new one, you probably don't you just need to remove it and clean it with carb cleaner spray.
I'll see if there's a YouTube video showing you how to do it yourself, it's usually very easy. | |||
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"Also, does it ever go above 2000 - 3000rpm? If not then it's in limp mode and needs hooking up to a diagnostic, which will give you a code, there could also be stored codes on the ECU which will tell me what the previous issue was." No never got above 2000 I have to nurse the throttle & gradually increase the revs 
I have looked online & seem that the throttle body can be cleaned something about the butterfly ? Where air & fuel are mixed ! I think | |||
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"We are having such serious issues at work with DPF that we are considering going to petrol engines. " Teach your drivers to force a regen. Once the vehicle is warm get it on the motorway at 70 in 4th gear for at least 20 miles. There will be a slight but noticeable drop in power and some (black) smoke for a few minutes, this is the DPF burning off the soot it's trapped. It's important that this is not interrupted by slowing down or stopping otherwise the whole process needs to be started again. Alternatively many garages and all main dealers can force a regen using their diagnostic computers but it's unnecessarily expensive. | |||
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"Also, does it ever go above 2000 - 3000rpm? If not then it's in limp mode and needs hooking up to a diagnostic, which will give you a code, there could also be stored codes on the ECU which will tell me what the previous issue was. No never got above 2000 I have to nurse the throttle & gradually increase the revs
I have looked online & seem that the throttle body can be cleaned something about the butterfly ? Where air & fuel are mixed ! I think "You need the codes reading but my money is on the EGR valve. Most problems with diesel engines are caused by the damn things. | |||
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"That's the problem, our job entails a multitude of stop starts and the engine never gets hot. " Short journeys and stop start driving kills diesel engines. I always say that if a vehicle is doing less than 15k a year then it should be a petrol, diesels need some good long runs to clear out the soot in the inlet manifold caused by the EGR valve and the soot trapped in the DPF (if fitted). | |||
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"Mrwho are you a car mechanic? I remember when I bought my last car the dealer looked at the blank look on my face when he showed me the engine and then the look of relief on my face when he said 'just use the yellow bits' "No, I'm not a mechanic but I've been fixing cars since I was old enough to hold a spanner. | |||
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"Buy a car with yellow bits in the engine is my advice. I hear driverless cars will be allowed on roads in 2015. Is this true, anyone? " I believe they will be research vehicles and most likely have someone on-board who will be able to take control when it all goes tits-up! | |||
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"Buy a car with yellow bits in the engine is my advice. I hear driverless cars will be allowed on roads in 2015. Is this true, anyone? I believe they will be research vehicles and most likely have someone on-board who will be able to take control when it all goes tits-up!" Or like "Johnny Cabs" (!) in the Total Recall film | |||
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"Buy a car with yellow bits in the engine is my advice. I hear driverless cars will be allowed on roads in 2015. Is this true, anyone? I believe they will be research vehicles and most likely have someone on-board who will be able to take control when it all goes tits-up! Or like "Johnny Cabs" (!) in the Total Recall film" I would love to see the first insurance claim after a crash between 2 driverless cars | |||
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The OP has a problem with a Citroen and not once have you said "Don't buy French!!"   
A | |||
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"Are you going soft Tom??
The OP has a problem with a Citroen and not once have you said "Don't buy French!!"
A"I'd have thought from all my previous posts on the subject my thoughts on French vehicles was clear. They should all be scrapped! | |||
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"Old citroen ds's are cool. There's one in back to the future too "Is your people carrier a Citroen? | |||
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"Are you going soft Tom??
The OP has a problem with a Citroen and not once have you said "Don't buy French!!"
A
I'd have thought from all my previous posts on the subject my thoughts on French vehicles was clear.
They should all be scrapped! "All good advice given ! Where were you when I got my Peugeot lol ? Had dramas exactly the same as op mine was fuel filter seal not quite fitting right ! But checked all of what you have suggested before that ( I'm a mechanic) So it happens to everyone lol | |||
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"Diesel engines are relatively simple things. First you should give a full service, change Air filter, Fuel filter, oil/oil filter, PCV valve filter and clean the EGR, and regen the the DPF - all simple to do if you know which end of a screwdriver and spanner to use. If that doesn't sort it, then you'll need to resort to diags. Owners forums are a fantastic resource, I no longer buy manuals, practically everything I need to know is documented on-line often with pics and videos. If you can, I'd recommend disabling the EGR after cleaning it out - usually just a small vacuum hose, pull it off the valve and block it with a golf tee or screw and put some tape over the spigot to keep crap out - it will never block up again and is not needed for UK MOT emissions testing. Did it on my BMW 2.0 cdti engine 5k miles ago and recently checked the EGR and it was still clean (and getting cleaner). It also breezed through the MOT with a smoke density of around 1.1 - the max for this year of car is 3.0" You can't simply block an electronic EGR valve. It will cause misfires, and rough idling. They need to be deleted from the ECU map and then have a blanking plate fitted. Vacuum operated valves don't require this to be done. I'd still block the valve off rather than just the vacuum pipe and clean the MAP sensor too as it will be covered in carbon from the previous EGR operations. | |||
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"Diesel engines are relatively simple things. First you should give a full service, change Air filter, Fuel filter, oil/oil filter, PCV valve filter and clean the EGR, and regen the the DPF - all simple to do if you know which end of a screwdriver and spanner to use. If that doesn't sort it, then you'll need to resort to diags. Owners forums are a fantastic resource, I no longer buy manuals, practically everything I need to know is documented on-line often with pics and videos. If you can, I'd recommend disabling the EGR after cleaning it out - usually just a small vacuum hose, pull it off the valve and block it with a golf tee or screw and put some tape over the spigot to keep crap out - it will never block up again and is not needed for UK MOT emissions testing. Did it on my BMW 2.0 cdti engine 5k miles ago and recently checked the EGR and it was still clean (and getting cleaner). It also breezed through the MOT with a smoke density of around 1.1 - the max for this year of car is 3.0 You can't simply block an electronic EGR valve. It will cause misfires, and rough idling. They need to be deleted from the ECU map and then have a blanking plate fitted. Vacuum operated valves don't require this to be done. I'd still block the valve off rather than just the vacuum pipe and clean the MAP sensor too as it will be covered in carbon from the previous EGR operations." Oh yeah, clean your MAF too Not sure what the MAP sensor is, but the MAF is after the air filter and before the EGR, so not affected by the EGR condition at all.
On a vacuum operated EGR, you can simply pull the vacuum hose off - I know, I've done it and it's the general advice on all the fora I've read regarding this engine. It may differ for other engines. The vacuum hose sucks the valve open, disconnecting it just stops the valve ever opening and has the same effect as fitting a blanking plate or bypass, except you still have a valve stem in the EGR, and is a simpler/quicker/cheaper option. You need to block the vacuum hose as described (and cable tie it out of the way), otherwise you get a slight loss of vacuum at the servo and the hose will suck in crap from the air. Blocking the spigot it attaches to is a good idea, as although it's now just an empty tube doing nothing, spray and crap could get in. Keeping it blocked and clean means that you can re-connect the vacuum hose in a couple of minutes and it will function normally again. | |||
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"Diesel engines are relatively simple things. First you should give a full service, change Air filter, Fuel filter, oil/oil filter, PCV valve filter and clean the EGR, and regen the the DPF - all simple to do if you know which end of a screwdriver and spanner to use. If that doesn't sort it, then you'll need to resort to diags. Owners forums are a fantastic resource, I no longer buy manuals, practically everything I need to know is documented on-line often with pics and videos. If you can, I'd recommend disabling the EGR after cleaning it out - usually just a small vacuum hose, pull it off the valve and block it with a golf tee or screw and put some tape over the spigot to keep crap out - it will never block up again and is not needed for UK MOT emissions testing. Did it on my BMW 2.0 cdti engine 5k miles ago and recently checked the EGR and it was still clean (and getting cleaner). It also breezed through the MOT with a smoke density of around 1.1 - the max for this year of car is 3.0 You can't simply block an electronic EGR valve. It will cause misfires, and rough idling. They need to be deleted from the ECU map and then have a blanking plate fitted. Vacuum operated valves don't require this to be done. I'd still block the valve off rather than just the vacuum pipe and clean the MAP sensor too as it will be covered in carbon from the previous EGR operations. Oh yeah, clean your MAF too Not sure what the MAP sensor is, but the MAF is after the air filter and before the EGR, so not affected by the EGR condition at all.
On a vacuum operated EGR, you can simply pull the vacuum hose off - I know, I've done it and it's the general advice on all the fora I've read regarding this engine. It may differ for other engines. The vacuum hose sucks the valve open, disconnecting it just stops the valve ever opening and has the same effect as fitting a blanking plate or bypass, except you still have a valve stem in the EGR, and is a simpler/quicker/cheaper option. You need to block the vacuum hose as described (and cable tie it out of the way), otherwise you get a slight loss of vacuum at the servo and the hose will suck in crap from the air. Blocking the spigot it attaches to is a good idea, as although it's now just an empty tube doing nothing, spray and crap could get in. Keeping it blocked and clean means that you can re-connect the vacuum hose in a couple of minutes and it will function normally again."Cleaning a MAF is a last resort only and rarely works. The only thing that should be used is isopropyl alcohol. The two sensor wires inside the MAF housing detection air density, volume and temperature. Using anything other than IPA leaves a residue on the sensor wires which will give a false reading and cause running issues due to an incorrect air/fuel ratio being requested by the ECU. Vacuum operated EGR valves are getting less common now and nearly all new cars are fitted with the electronic type, these require specialist remapping which is around £80 including the blanking plate. The MAP sensor, also known as the turbo pressure sensor, sits either on the inlet manifold or on the intercooler to inlet manifold pipe. It tells the ECU how much boost to request from the turbo. Due to its position it is prone to getting clogged with the same exhaust soot that clogs the EGR valve. You should clean the MAP sensor with brake cleaner or carb cleaner. | |||
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"The lazy way to clean the MAF without taking it off is to take the air filter off and spray some Servisol switch clean (or other isopropyl alcohol spray) directly into the post air filter intake. Use a fair amount, leave it for 5 mins, refit air filter element and start the engine (it may be a bit reluctant, but should start, if not, use a bit of cold start or other ethyl ether spray), give it a few revs to suck all the crap through, then repeat the process" Never use cold/easy start sprays on a diesel engine. | |||
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"Are you 2 speaking English? "EGR - exhaust gas recirculation valve. Utterly pointless device, not necessary at all for safe running of a diesel engine. The EU says they must be fitted though. MAF - mass airflow sensor. Tells the cars computer the volume and temperature of air flowing into the engine so the computer knows how much fuel to add. MAP - manifold absolute pressure sensor. Tells the ECU how much boost to request from the turbo charger. | |||
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"Are you 2 speaking English?
EGR - exhaust gas recirculation valve. Utterly pointless device, not necessary at all for safe running of a diesel engine. The EU says they must be fitted though.
MAF - mass airflow sensor. Tells the cars computer the volume and temperature of air flowing into the engine so the computer knows how much fuel to add.
MAP - manifold absolute pressure sensor. Tells the ECU how much boost to request from the turbo charger."PMSL | |||
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"Are you 2 speaking English? "I know! Totally lost with all this, but glad some people understand stuff thats 100% lost on me. I can check oil levels and did see filters changed once, but thats my grasp level of cars. I drive a diesel and as long as my mpg stays in the 50s I feel happy that probably its ok. | |||
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"Yeah as I said, use IPA to clean the MAF. It won't fix a broken one, but it will improve a dirty one - it worked for me, I had the dreaded no torque/power until I could get the revs up for the turbo to kick in, a couple of treatments with switch clean worked a treat. I agree, it's generally a last resort to use ethyl ether to start any engine, but I don't think it does any significant harm if used sparingly once or twice. Using my lazy MAF clean method, I didn't need to use cold start, the car fired up fine with just a puff of white smoke as the IPA vapour was burned off. EGRs reduce NOx emissions at the expense of mpg and bhp, and they produce more soot, which is why they fit a DPF. In the UK, the emissions test for a diesel is only an opacity test, which means you can dispense with the EGR, getting better mpg and more power. Also, as less soot is produced, the DPF is no longer needed, so the one fitted doesn't get clogged and need a regen, or at least not as often" Sadly it's no longer legal to remove your DPF if the car was fitted with one from new or post 2007. Thankfully Alfa Romeo never fitted them to the UK GT's so it's not something I have to worry about with my car. First thing I did when I bought it was have the EGR deleted and blanked by a local tuning specialist. So no worries there either.... | |||
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"This is the first diesel I've owned for around 20 years - prior to that it was company cars and personal vehicles have been LPG - one still is. So all this EGR DPF MAF malarky was new to me until a few months ago. The interweb fora are great and I quickly learned what I needed to know and understand in order to get the best from the engine. In my case, it being a 2003 engine, the EGR is vacuum operated, so no ECU deletion needed, just disconnecting the vacuum hose disables the EGR with no diagnostic warnings. Others fit a bypass, which has no valve stem (obviously), and blanks off the exhaust feed - they're about £35. Cleaning the EGR and then pulling the hose is free
"I always tell people if they're unwilling to have it deleted (electronic EGR) or disabled (vacuum EGR) then they should at the very least clean it every six months (more often if they rarely see a motorway). It should really be something that's done on a service in my opinion but they cause so many problems that dealers love them because it means plenty of expensive repair work repairing the problems they create. | |||
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"This is one of them threads again where I havn't got a clue what is being said. "Do you really want me to explain? | |||
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" EGRs reduce NOx emissions at the expense of mpg and bhp, and they produce more soot, which is why they fit a DPF. In the UK, the emissions test for a diesel is only an opacity test, which means you can dispense with the EGR, getting better mpg and more power. Also, as less soot is produced, the DPF is no longer needed, so the one fitted doesn't get clogged and need a regen, or at least not as often" Not totally accurate. Deleting and banking an EGR valve makes neglegable differences to both power and fuel economy. What you're getting is the turbo spinning up quicker which feels like there is more power, the added economy people quote is usually only 0.5mpg, what actually happens is their driving style alters to reflect the previously mentioned lack of turbolag. No more or no less soot is generated than previously. Technically it's more because exhaust gases aren't being redirected into the cylinders for a second combustion cycle. The need for a DPF didn't arise from the use of EGR valves. They're fitted because diesel fumes are/*were carcinogenic. *the carcenogens are far lower since they stopped adding sulphur to diesel. It's also the biggest reason some older diesel engines are suffering with diesel pump failure. Those driving older diesels (even newer ones) should add a little two-stroke oil to their fuel every 3 or 4 tanks. This lubricates the fuel pump in the same was the sulphur used to and is harmlessly burned off during the combustion cycle. | |||
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" EGRs reduce NOx emissions at the expense of mpg and bhp, and they produce more soot, which is why they fit a DPF. In the UK, the emissions test for a diesel is only an opacity test, which means you can dispense with the EGR, getting better mpg and more power. Also, as less soot is produced, the DPF is no longer needed, so the one fitted doesn't get clogged and need a regen, or at least not as often Not totally accurate. Deleting and banking an EGR valve makes neglegable differences to both power and fuel economy. What you're getting is the turbo spinning up quicker which feels like there is more power, the added economy people quote is usually only 0.5mpg, what actually happens is their driving style alters to reflect the previously mentioned lack of turbolag. No more or no less soot is generated than previously. Technically it's more because exhaust gases aren't being redirected into the cylinders for a second combustion cycle. The need for a DPF didn't arise from the use of EGR valves. They're fitted because diesel fumes are/*were carcinogenic. *the carcenogens are far lower since they stopped adding sulphur to diesel. It's also the biggest reason some older diesel engines are suffering with diesel pump failure. Those driving older diesels (even newer ones) should add a little two-stroke oil to their fuel every 3 or 4 tanks. This lubricates the fuel pump in the same was the sulphur used to and is harmlessly burned off during the combustion cycle." Hmmm - this is at odds with what I've read, in that the EGR, by allowing some exhaust fumes into the inlet, dilutes the amount of O2 in the mix and thus reduces the combustion temperature slightly to reduce the production of NOx - I've read this several times on many fora and some very technical info sites. They also state that this produces more soot. It makes perfect sense to me that if you reduce the relative concentration of O2 in a combustion mix, you will get less power, thus lower mpg. I've read about adding a little 2 stroke, but not yet done this. I've also done a fairly scientific analysis on Millers and Dipetane additives over 10k miles, brimming the tank at the same pump at the same garage at the same time (ish) of day, for a broadly similar driving cycle (commute to work and visits to gf). There is a spread of mpg from around 44 worst to 48 best (I cruise at around 95 on empty motorway), but no significant difference with or without additives. I stopped doing the test shortly after disabling the EGR, it made no discernible difference, though longer testing would be necessary to be sure. The turbo kicks in at 1800rpm, and before disabling the EGR and cleaning the MAF, which I did at the same time, I had no power off boost, but now I have significantly more power off boost. As most of my mileage is motorway, on boost, I can understand why I'd not get any significant mpg benefit from this - it was just annoying when wanting to pull away briskly at a busy island. As I did both the EGR and the MAF at the same time, I can't really say which of these made the difference to the off boost power, though my guess is the MAF. | |||
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"This is one of them threads again where I havn't got a clue what is being said.
Do you really want me to explain?"Not really, let me know if either of you are breaking rules though as I am not sure if you are or not. | |||
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" EGRs reduce NOx emissions at the expense of mpg and bhp, and they produce more soot, which is why they fit a DPF. In the UK, the emissions test for a diesel is only an opacity test, which means you can dispense with the EGR, getting better mpg and more power. Also, as less soot is produced, the DPF is no longer needed, so the one fitted doesn't get clogged and need a regen, or at least not as often Not totally accurate. Deleting and banking an EGR valve makes neglegable differences to both power and fuel economy. What you're getting is the turbo spinning up quicker which feels like there is more power, the added economy people quote is usually only 0.5mpg, what actually happens is their driving style alters to reflect the previously mentioned lack of turbolag. No more or no less soot is generated than previously. Technically it's more because exhaust gases aren't being redirected into the cylinders for a second combustion cycle. The need for a DPF didn't arise from the use of EGR valves. They're fitted because diesel fumes are/*were carcinogenic. *the carcenogens are far lower since they stopped adding sulphur to diesel. It's also the biggest reason some older diesel engines are suffering with diesel pump failure. Those driving older diesels (even newer ones) should add a little two-stroke oil to their fuel every 3 or 4 tanks. This lubricates the fuel pump in the same was the sulphur used to and is harmlessly burned off during the combustion cycle. Hmmm - this is at odds with what I've read, in that the EGR, by allowing some exhaust fumes into the inlet, dilutes the amount of O2 in the mix and thus reduces the combustion temperature slightly to reduce the production of NOx - I've read this several times on many fora and some very technical info sites. They also state that this produces more soot. It makes perfect sense to me that if you reduce the relative concentration of O2 in a combustion mix, you will get less power, thus lower mpg. I've read about adding a little 2 stroke, but not yet done this. I've also done a fairly scientific analysis on Millers and Dipetane additives over 10k miles, brimming the tank at the same pump at the same garage at the same time (ish) of day, for a broadly similar driving cycle (commute to work and visits to gf). There is a spread of mpg from around 44 worst to 48 best (I cruise at around 95 on empty motorway), but no significant difference with or without additives. I stopped doing the test shortly after disabling the EGR, it made no discernible difference, though longer testing would be necessary to be sure. The turbo kicks in at 1800rpm, and before disabling the EGR and cleaning the MAF, which I did at the same time, I had no power off boost, but now I have significantly more power off boost. As most of my mileage is motorway, on boost, I can understand why I'd not get any significant mpg benefit from this - it was just annoying when wanting to pull away briskly at a busy island. As I did both the EGR and the MAF at the same time, I can't really say which of these made the difference to the off boost power, though my guess is the MAF. " I doubt it would be the MAF making a lot of difference unless the car had been previously neglected by either neglecting to change the air filter or running the car without one. The reason it's so close to the air filter is because that's the cleanest place to measure the volume of air and it's temperature (which is what a MAF does). Cleaning a MAF is usually not recommended and most of the time does very little (unless the elements are contaminated, in which case it'll probably still fail as they'll be damaged and burnn out). Blanking the EGR helps because the air going into the cylinders is considerably cleaner and as a result the inlet manifold will be less restricted, the MAP sensor will be cleaner (giving correct instructions to the turbo) and the swirl flaps will move freely and open/close more effectively. An engine is nothing more than an air pump, the cleaner and less restrictive it is the more efficient it will be. | |||
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"Have you replaced / inspected the Air Filter and main air intake? I had something similar last year and it turned out that (cutting a long story very short) the air filter had partly disintegrated due to getting very wet. It them partially blocked the air intake and the symptoms were very similar to what you describe (and that of a malfunctioning EGR Valve) on a 2.0 Citroen Diesel HDI" Could be but there would be smoke most likely black due to poor combustion, possibly white due to over fuelling. In some cases the car wouldn't run at all. The OP's problem could also be a blocked DPF (if it has one) or some other exhaust restriction but that would cause the EML to be on all the time. | |||
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"Have you replaced / inspected the Air Filter and main air intake? I had something similar last year and it turned out that (cutting a long story very short) the air filter had partly disintegrated due to getting very wet. It them partially blocked the air intake and the symptoms were very similar to what you describe (and that of a malfunctioning EGR Valve) on a 2.0 Citroen Diesel HDI Could be but there would be smoke most likely black due to poor combustion, possibly white due to over fuelling. In some cases the car wouldn't run at all. The OP's problem could also be a blocked DPF (if it has one) or some other exhaust restriction but that would cause the EML to be on all the time." Hi guys an update. Plugged a reader into the van can't see any faults / codes possibly because the last time the engine light came on was over 3 months ago does it delete the code after a period of time ? But the problem is still their will give her a long run in 4 th gear & see if it is the DPF Thanks again for all the advice | |||
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"Are you going soft Tom??
The OP has a problem with a Citroen and not once have you said "Don't buy French!!"
A
I'd have thought from all my previous posts on the subject my thoughts on French vehicles was clear.
They should all be scrapped! "I have same view regarding Diesels. Yuck. Horrible, dirty, smelly things. I'll stick with my lovely Yank thank you very much. 18 years old and still going strong. 11 of those years in my ownership. I also have a diagnostic scanner as OBDII was introduced in the states in 1996. European cars came into line in 2001(petrol) and 2004(diesel) so if anyone here has a car newer than these dates with an engine light on that is fairly local to me, i'm happy to read/reset your codes for you. | |||
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"Codes get cleared in the ECU after a pre-determined number of driving cycles if the fault doesn't reoccur. " Bosch ECU's store the codes until cleared but the EML light will go out after 5 fault free starts. Siemens ECU's (as used by the French) delete their own codes which is a pain in the arse for chasing down faults. | |||
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