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Boots on the ground

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Has anyone seen the news today british troops sent to Iraq. I'm sure I watched doc the other week promising no boots would be on the ground. Then we send SBS and SAS which I can understand but now we've sent infantry too. I wonder how long before more are sent in support.

What a total waste of time and lives

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah, let's just sit and watch all the minorities that we promised to protect be butchered by the people we ousted from power in the first place.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

It was always on the cards.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yeah, let's just sit and watch all the minorities that we promised to protect be butchered by the people we ousted from power in the first place. "

I take you will be going to put your life on the line

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It was always on the cards.

"

On what basis? Frankly I disagree. Both the u. S. And UK are trying to recover from the conflicts of the past decade. War isn't desirable as an outcome at the best of times from a leadership perspective. It's too costly. Re engagement, especially when you're trying to recover in every way from public opinion to manpower, just isn't what is the driving force in your actions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem is this group calling themselves the Islamic State need to be stopped. They control a third of Syria and large parts of Iraq. The Iraq army is illprepared the Kurdish forces are underarmed and lack training. And the west wont support the Syrian goverment. Now I dont support boots on the ground but if someone does not stop them this will only spread to Jordan then god knows where from then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yeah, let's just sit and watch all the minorities that we promised to protect be butchered by the people we ousted from power in the first place.

I take you will be going to put your life on the line "
how do you know I haven't?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Ok so our last stint over in Iraq 8yrs we said we are leaving as we had gotten the government military and police to a level they could look after themselves.

So this leaves me with questions,

1) should we have pulled out last time.

2) how long we going to have to be there this time if we didn't sort it in 8yrs

3) manpower cuts do we have the troops to cover it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In for a penny, in for a pound, in for a never ending genocide.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

In the interests of balance, I'd like to point out that other Chemists are available.

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By *unter_hoodMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

We cant just stand by and let these innocent people being butchered and pushed out from there homes....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In the interests of balance, I'd like to point out that other Chemists are available. "
not for long, they are being taken over by Walgreens

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We cant just stand by and let these innocent people being butchered and pushed out from there homes...."

We've stood by and watched that happen without intervention for decades in the middle east.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

And a few other places too in the last year. Oh we used diplomatic means to try and assist. Why not this time

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By *unter_hoodMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh


"We cant just stand by and let these innocent people being butchered and pushed out from there homes....

We've stood by and watched that happen without intervention for decades in the middle east. "

And this makes it alright for us to stand back and watch now. ive been to a lot of these places and they need help!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Has anyone seen the news today british troops sent to Iraq. I'm sure I watched doc the other week promising no boots would be on the ground. Then we send SBS and SAS which I can understand but now we've sent infantry too. I wonder how long before more are sent in support.

What a total waste of time and lives "

I read on BBC news that David Cameron had been quoted no British troops boots would touch Iraq or Syrian soil.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We cant just stand by and let these innocent people being butchered and pushed out from there homes....

We've stood by and watched that happen without intervention for decades in the middle east.

And this makes it alright for us to stand back and watch now. ive been to a lot of these places and they need help!"

It would have been a case of 'out of sight, out of mind' had we never tried to buy out half of the middle east during the cold war, but now the government is merely obligated to finish what they started so they don't get blamed for another Vietnam.

Nobody wants that legacy.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"We cant just stand by and let these innocent people being butchered and pushed out from there homes....

We've stood by and watched that happen without intervention for decades in the middle east.

And this makes it alright for us to stand back and watch now. ive been to a lot of these places and they need help!"

Same here and it's why I'm so pissed off about it. We should never have pulled out when we did.

The only reason we did was because of the us pulling out due to public opinion and so we could cut defence. Now 3yrs on we are back.

Why don't the rest of the Middle East use their military might to aid these people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We cant just stand by and let these innocent people being butchered and pushed out from there homes...."

Are you talking about Gaza or Iraq?

Forgive me. I literally have no idea of what's been going on in Iraq, I haven't been keeping up with the news. But it does strike me as odd that we sit back and cross our arms whilst a whole bunch of innocent Muslims get killed in Gaza... but the minute it's the Muslims doing the killing we're all suddenly ready to invade and bomb them back to the stone age.

Plus... isn't it obvious by now that the root cause of much of the middle east's problems are all those stupid arbitrary lines in the sand we westerners drew. If a whole swathe of Arabs want to redraw the lines... surely that's a good idea?

Perhaps I'm talking out of line as I have no idea of whether there are real atrocities going on over there or whether our media is hyping them up and demonising them like it often does before we go on a killing spree only to discover that our on-the-ground allies are actually just as brutal and corrupt as the Muslims we're trying to kill

I did catch some headline about David Cameron making a speech that we will be at war with Islam for the rest of his political life. Great! and that's not gonna fan the flames of Muslim paranoia and hatred is it

Bottom line. We're frightened of the Arabs forming a large proudly Arab state and nationalising their oil production and messing up our recovery from recession. I don't even need to know the news to know that's why we're there... atrocities or not.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"Has anyone seen the news today british troops sent to Iraq. I'm sure I watched doc the other week promising no boots would be on the ground. Then we send SBS and SAS which I can understand but now we've sent infantry too. I wonder how long before more are sent in support.

What a total waste of time and lives

I read on BBC news that David Cameron had been quoted no British troops boots would touch Iraq or Syrian soil. "

We probably buy our boots from China anyway.

Camoron is a liar. Big news.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk


"We cant just stand by and let these innocent people being butchered and pushed out from there homes....

We've stood by and watched that happen without intervention for decades in the middle east.

And this makes it alright for us to stand back and watch now. ive been to a lot of these places and they need help!"

Perhaps we should have kept the fuck out of it in the first place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can't find anything on the news about troops going into Iraq, the special forces will be there as spotters to enable aid drops.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"We cant just stand by and let these innocent people being butchered and pushed out from there homes....

We've stood by and watched that happen without intervention for decades in the middle east.

And this makes it alright for us to stand back and watch now. ive been to a lot of these places and they need help!

Perhaps we should have kept the fuck out of it in the first place."

It will never stop over there, we as a country/society have a fundamental lack of understanding of their cultural differences to us. Tribal issues and such we can not impose our western ways upon them no matter what we do.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Can't find anything on the news about troops going into Iraq, the special forces will be there as spotters to enable aid drops. "

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Yorkshire-Regiment-soldiers-Iraq-Britain-dragged/story-22766231-detail/story.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wars make huge profits - that's why the government wants in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wars make huge profits - that's why the government wants in."

I'd have thought the "private security firms" were still in Iraq. Once the army has done their bit, the mercs are there until there's nothing left to protect/work for.

I'd be surprised that the civil unrest now isn't because there's fuck all left to destroy.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"Can't find anything on the news about troops going into Iraq, the special forces will be there as spotters to enable aid drops.

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Yorkshire-Regiment-soldiers-Iraq-Britain-dragged/story-22766231-detail/story.html"

"As well as the aircraft, troops from the 2nd Battalion Yorkshire regiment were sent into the Kurdish capital Irbil for 24 hours to prepare the ground for a possible rescue mission by the helicopters.

They have now left but British special forces are reportedly in northern Iraq."

Not exactly 'boots on the ground'

The full article is here.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28835597

A

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"We cant just stand by and let these innocent people being butchered and pushed out from there homes....

Are you talking about Gaza or Iraq?

Forgive me. I literally have no idea of what's been going on in Iraq, I haven't been keeping up with the news. But it does strike me as odd that we sit back and cross our arms whilst a whole bunch of innocent Muslims get killed in Gaza... but the minute it's the Muslims doing the killing we're all suddenly ready to invade and bomb them back to the stone age.

Plus... isn't it obvious by now that the root cause of much of the middle east's problems are all those stupid arbitrary lines in the sand we westerners drew. If a whole swathe of Arabs want to redraw the lines... surely that's a good idea?

Perhaps I'm talking out of line as I have no idea of whether there are real atrocities going on over there or whether our media is hyping them up and demonising them like it often does before we go on a killing spree only to discover that our on-the-ground allies are actually just as brutal and corrupt as the Muslims we're trying to kill

I did catch some headline about David Cameron making a speech that we will be at war with Islam for the rest of his political life. Great! and that's not gonna fan the flames of Muslim paranoia and hatred is it

Bottom line. We're frightened of the Arabs forming a large proudly Arab state and nationalising their oil production and messing up our recovery from recession. I don't even need to know the news to know that's why we're there... atrocities or not."

Firstly, I could re-write your first paragraph to say something like: The left and rentamob are very quick to take to the streets and trash supermarkets to condemn Israel, but they are very quiet when it's the Muslims doing the killing. Where are the moderate Muslims with a "not in my name" march against IS? But you can bet you life that if some obscure newspaper prints a cartoon of the "Great Prophet" London will be brought to a standstill by the false indignation. As for the stone age. We can hardly bomb IS back to it because they already live in it. Your average Neanderthal is a modern civilised being compared to this mob.

Secondly, the Arab's can redraw as many lines in the sand as they like, but parading around with peoples heads on a spike is hardly just border readjustment.

Finally what you say we are "frightened of" already exists. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Etc.

IS are a bunch of nasty evil thugs who if given the time and capacity would make Hitler and Stalin look like a couple of fun loving nice guys.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wars make huge profits - that's why the government wants in.

I'd have thought the "private security firms" were still in Iraq. Once the army has done their bit, the mercs are there until there's nothing left to protect/work for.

I'd be surprised that the civil unrest now isn't because there's fuck all left to destroy."

One of the biggest contracts the Mercs had was protecting British and American troops. No rules of engagement to worry about, plus that law they had originally in Iraq that no contractor could be prosecuted, which has now been rescinded. Iraq ain't the place they wanna be in large numbers anymore.

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk


"In the interests of balance, I'd like to point out that other Chemists are available. "

You do it every day lol

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By *luezuluMan
over a year ago

Suffolk


"We cant just stand by and let these innocent people being butchered and pushed out from there homes....

Are you talking about Gaza or Iraq?

Forgive me. I literally have no idea of what's been going on in Iraq, I haven't been keeping up with the news. But it does strike me as odd that we sit back and cross our arms whilst a whole bunch of innocent Muslims get killed in Gaza... but the minute it's the Muslims doing the killing we're all suddenly ready to invade and bomb them back to the stone age.

Plus... isn't it obvious by now that the root cause of much of the middle east's problems are all those stupid arbitrary lines in the sand we westerners drew. If a whole swathe of Arabs want to redraw the lines... surely that's a good idea?

Perhaps I'm talking out of line as I have no idea of whether there are real atrocities going on over there or whether our media is hyping them up and demonising them like it often does before we go on a killing spree only to discover that our on-the-ground allies are actually just as brutal and corrupt as the Muslims we're trying to kill

I did catch some headline about David Cameron making a speech that we will be at war with Islam for the rest of his political life. Great! and that's not gonna fan the flames of Muslim paranoia and hatred is it

Bottom line. We're frightened of the Arabs forming a large proudly Arab state and nationalising their oil production and messing up our recovery from recession. I don't even need to know the news to know that's why we're there... atrocities or not.

Firstly, I could re-write your first paragraph to say something like: The left and rentamob are very quick to take to the streets and trash supermarkets to condemn Israel, but they are very quiet when it's the Muslims doing the killing. Where are the moderate Muslims with a "not in my name" march against IS? But you can bet you life that if some obscure newspaper prints a cartoon of the "Great Prophet" London will be brought to a standstill by the false indignation. As for the stone age. We can hardly bomb IS back to it because they already live in it. Your average Neanderthal is a modern civilised being compared to this mob.

Secondly, the Arab's can redraw as many lines in the sand as they like, but parading around with peoples heads on a spike is hardly just border readjustment.

Finally what you say we are "frightened of" already exists. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Etc.

IS are a bunch of nasty evil thugs who if given the time and capacity would make Hitler and Stalin look like a couple of fun loving nice guys."
ABSOLUTELY spot on, well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"IS are a bunch of nasty evil thugs who if given the time and capacity would make Hitler and Stalin look like a couple of fun loving nice guys. "

Strange world isn't it... IS are the fall out of the Syrian rebels that the west were arming and training, just a few months ago.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

We always do this we arm and train the ones we perceive to be the good guys only for them to turn on us and others mujahideen ring any bells

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We always do this we arm and train the ones we perceive to be the good guys only for them to turn on us and others mujahideen ring any bells"

unfortunately yes it does

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"IS are a bunch of nasty evil thugs who if given the time and capacity would make Hitler and Stalin look like a couple of fun loving nice guys.

Strange world isn't it... IS are the fall out of the Syrian rebels that the west were arming and training, just a few months ago. "

If we had sent in troops last year as the PM wanted then that's the side we would be defending right now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We always do this we arm and train the ones we perceive to be the good guys only for them to turn on us and others mujahideen ring any bells"

The mujahideen or soldiers of.... Were the good guys, during the conflict with Russia, they were used in a proxy war by the American government.

The Talib or "scholars" were the sons of the mujahideen, sent far from the conflict into the border regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan. The United nations provided refugee camps for most of the basic needs of these people. However were forbidden from providing education in the camps. This was provided by Saudi Arabia who taught wahabism, a strict form of faith

when the war was over and the mujahideen had one the young men came home, strong, educated and with fervour... These young men took over from the war weary old....

Initially calling themselves the Talib. later westernised to Talban. The mujahideen are long gone. The Talib composed mainly of jihadists from other nations and those boys now men, educated in the camps.

Still the truth always gets in the way of a conspiracy x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ISIS are Sunnis. The same as Sadam. The government are Shi'ites. I have no idea what the difference is

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the media representation of what's going on in these places is not based upon reality... and I also think a large amount of academics/advisors/experts have a pro-western agenda to their studies of the area. I would say the image we have presented to us is largely a fabrication in order to drive a specific pro-western strategic agenda; that it is an image which is intrinsically biased.

It used to be that this propaganda was only used on the population at home but, since the first Iraq war and the advances in technology allowing for greater control of who knows what, it is a propaganda which is now increasingly fed to the troops on the ground as well.

These days it is only a very few who know why we're actually fighting these wars... and they're unlikely to be anything to do with the military. Not only are these interventions nothing to do with the atrocities they claim to be motivated by (any public outrage about a news story which is itself biased is merely an extension of the weapons of war) but they shouldn't be anything to do with these atrocities otherwise it's entirely hypocritical. We only invade countries when it's in our national interest. If we have any boots on the ground it's for this reason... nothing else imo

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the media representation of what's going on in these places is not based upon reality... and I also think a large amount of academics/advisors/experts have a pro-western agenda to their studies of the area. I would say the image we have presented to us is largely a fabrication in order to drive a specific pro-western strategic agenda; that it is an image which is intrinsically biased.

It used to be that this propaganda was only used on the population at home but, since the first Iraq war and the advances in technology allowing for greater control of who knows what, it is a propaganda which is now increasingly fed to the troops on the ground as well.

These days it is only a very few who know why we're actually fighting these wars... and they're unlikely to be anything to do with the military. Not only are these interventions nothing to do with the atrocities they claim to be motivated by (any public outrage about a news story which is itself biased is merely an extension of the weapons of war) but they shouldn't be anything to do with these atrocities otherwise it's entirely hypocritical. We only invade countries when it's in our national interest. If we have any boots on the ground it's for this reason... nothing else imo "

I'm an undergrad studying war specifically. Not military history, though that is part, but also the political use of war. One of the first and most important things we are taught is to question agenda and bias in everything. Or own agenda and bias in interpreting what we are reading as well as that of the author. It's possible that some forget this lesson, but it definitely is called into action again and again.

You're spot on about national interest, though. No state will commit to one that is outside what it deems its interest. That concept, however, is good and means different things to different people. With regard to intervention, a lot of people seem you hold Libya up as an example of western intervention on humanitarian grounds being both the 'norm'and successful. That one intervention was in the defined interests of the states and was a major fluke that everything combined in a way that got unsc authorisation and the apparent legitimacy that that entails. The success, or lack thereof, is debatable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To the OP,

You cant expect to carry out a humanitarian mission without anyone on the ground to liaise with. Especially in these modern conflicts where the difference between civilian and combatant is just whether or not the rifle is in their hands.

To state that what's going on in Iraq is being spun by western media is frankly atrocious. Media liberties in the west are so ridiculous you just couldn't get away with it. Plus these days social media is there to provide even more evidence (I'm talking about in terms of feeds from those on the ground, not the bumwipes here or across the globe who have some half baked opinion on something when they're too lazy to actually do any research). ISIS are carrying out acts of brutality against anyone who doesn't conform to their way and that should be stopped. Simple.

To those on here who put about wars making money that just isn't the case anymore. A select few make money off any war these days (look at the US after the two World Wars, those broke Europe). Its not like the olden days where you could loot and pillage to fill the coffers. Look at most modern wars and apart from the fighting there's also the costs of reconstruction and aid. I don't for an instant believe that the UK made money from Iraq or Afghanistan in the first decade of this century. As someone posted above (although their post was flawed in my opinion the premise wasn't), we only go to war when its in our interest. A stable middle east that is able to prosper and add to the global economy is clearly in our interest.

Oh and as a final point those talking about Syria and our actions there in terms of supplying ISIS. The reason we haven't really got stuck into Syria is because of groups like ISIS. The rise of extremists within the Syrian opposition made it impossible for western governments to support them. Once those extremists groups like the Al Nusra front rose to prominence Western aid began to diminish.

Got a little too into this and wanted to respond to a few points raised here but coul ddebate about this for ages

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wars make huge profits - that's why the government wants in.

I'd have thought the "private security firms" were still in Iraq. Once the army has done their bit, the mercs are there until there's nothing left to protect/work for.

I'd be surprised that the civil unrest now isn't because there's fuck all left to destroy.

One of the biggest contracts the Mercs had was protecting British and American troops. No rules of engagement to worry about, plus that law they had originally in Iraq that no contractor could be prosecuted, which has now been rescinded. Iraq ain't the place they wanna be in large numbers anymore. "

Last I saw, there's a great docu film on Youtube, there were mercs in Iraq from the UK, US, Russia, Germany, Italy and Australia etc, all vying for defence and transport security contracts with Iraq's own fuel companies. No surprise there. Especially when most of the recent reports on attacks against our troops were at and around fuel depots.

Our soldiers don't get paid awfully, but where the government lets them down if they get injured, working for the firms means that they not only get better wages, they get properly looked after on and off the job.

Of course, that's the difference between a privatised military industry providing the governments with what they need to go to war and a privatised military industry spending its own money to make money.

Taxes can only go so far, but profit can go anywhere.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is only my veiws.

We should never have gone over the Iraq & afghanistan, russia failed years ago to win a war there using the same tactics we did. It just seems as if there was a lot of go there to attack some troops, then go back later to do the same.

I am in no way kicking the guys and girls that went over there, they did a brilliant job as always.

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By *aceytopWoman
over a year ago

from a town near you


"This is only my veiws.

We should never have gone over the Iraq & afghanistan, russia failed years ago to win a war there using the same tactics we did. It just seems as if there was a lot of go there to attack some troops, then go back later to do the same.

I am in no way kicking the guys and girls that went over there, they did a brilliant job as always. "
having a child in the forces who has just completed a tour of Afghanistan I am watching this one play out with dread

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

we can debate for ever about the right and wrongs of previous conflicts in that region and apportion blame etc etc however 'we' are dealing with a new type of radical extremism in the IS..

doing nothing is not an option and doing something may well have global consequences..

tricky one..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

SAS weren't sent there. They more than likely hadn't left

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