FabSwingers.com forum: The surrogacy story

By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I feel a bit sickened by the story of the Australian couple refusing to take their Downs Syndrome son, but keeping the "normal/healthy" twin girl, born to a Thai surrogate.

The parents had asked the surrogate to abort the pregnancy but it was against the surrogates beliefs. Aborting one twin is not that straightforward either.

With more people paying for surrogates abroad are we going to see more cases where the parents reject the child as it wasn't the one the specification they wanted?

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By *horltzMan
over a year ago

heysham

In my opinion the surrogates need some form of contract and protection , to stop exploitation

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"In my opinion the surrogates need some form of contract and protection , to stop exploitation"

The pictures of some of the ones in India make it look like baby farms for Westerners. Rows and rows if pregnant women incubating white babies.

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By *horltzMan
over a year ago

heysham

Sickening , should not be allowed , it's just exploiting the poor

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By *xpresMan
over a year ago

Elland

"I feel a bit sickened by the story of the Australian couple refusing to take their Downs Syndrome son, but keeping the "normal/healthy" twin girl, born to a Thai surrogate.

The parents had asked the surrogate to abort the pregnancy but it was against the surrogates beliefs. Aborting one twin is not that straightforward either.

With more people paying for surrogates abroad are we going to see more cases where the parents reject the child as it wasn't the one the specification they wanted?

saw it on the news... Oh my word that Aussie couple want taking to court sewing for all they have its totaly disgusting

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Sickening , should not be allowed , it's just exploiting the poor"

But when you have to feed your family you do what you can. It's better paid than working in the garment factories and less risky than selling your organs.

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By *horltzMan
over a year ago

heysham

"Sickening , should not be allowed , it's just exploiting the poor

But when you have to feed your family you do what you can. It's better paid than working in the garment factories and less risky than selling your organs."

Yeah I agree that's why I think they need protection

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

It makes an already sad situation,a wee bit sadder.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well I suppose she should of had an abortion if that's what the couple wanted, they shouldn't be forced to bring up a child they don't want, its perfectly understandable. although I like downs syndrome children because they are so loving and affectionate.

its a worry though what will happen to them when you die.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

It's not a great situation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well I suppose she should of had an abortion if that's what the couple wanted, they shouldn't be forced to bring up a child they don't want, its perfectly understandable. "

agree with that.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

I've been following this on the BBC site over the last week.

Surrogacy is apparently illegal in Thailand - hence there's no protection for surrogates. It's surprising that no charges have been brought against the couple by the Thai government - but then they'd also have to prosecute the surrogate and of course wouldn't want to jeopardise the lucrative tourist trade relationship they have with Australia.

It's the children I feel sorry for - both of them. The healthy child will find out the background in the future no doubt and I worry for the child left with it's mother and how she will cope. Although it's good to see the 'fund' set up to raise money for its heart operation and aftercare has hit such a huge figure so quickly - largely down to internet social networking sites.

I guess Bookface has 'some' redeeming qualities after all.

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By *annGentMan
over a year ago

With a cracking _iew

"well I suppose she should of had an abortion if that's what the couple wanted"

Abortion is against the surrogate mother's beliefs ...

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"I've been following this on the BBC site over the last week.

I guess Bookface has 'some' redeeming qualities after all.

I saw the story earlier in the week too but I hadn't seen the picture of the baby being held by the surrogate's son. The Thai surrogate saying she loves him as her own with that beautiful picture made me cry.

If his surgery is successful and he has a long life then he and his twin in Australia are likely to come to know of each other and that is not going to be great for anyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It makes an already sad situation,a wee bit sadder.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

I hadn't realised they had asked her to abort. In that case I can't see that it was much of a shock when they didn't take the downs syndrome child.

Personally I think that aborting a child because it has downs syndrome is wrong as well. It's almost like having a designer baby. So many people can't have children that to throw the life of a child away because it isn't perfect doesn't seem right.

We have heard little from the couples side and as _iew always says....there are three sides to a story.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"although I like downs syndrome children because they are so loving and affectionate."

And the award for the biggest sweeping statement goes to you!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well I suppose she should of had an abortion if that's what the couple wanted, they shouldn't be forced to bring up a child they don't want, its perfectly understandable. although I like downs syndrome children because they are so loving and affectionate.

its a worry though what will happen to them when you die."

Aborting a twin is not that easy. The risk is very high of miscarraige to the other twin. My friend was in this siyuation a few years back. She was told she had ine healthy baby, one with severe heart defects. They said the baby with heart problems once borm would not survive. God bless her she didnt. But was told abortion was way too risky.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well I suppose she should of had an abortion if that's what the couple wanted, they shouldn't be forced to bring up a child they don't want, its perfectly understandable.

agree with that. "

No she shouldn't of had the abortion, whether against beliefs or not, she's the one carrying the babies so it's her decision, not the couple's, the same if she gave birth and wanted to keep both, it's her decision

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"although I like downs syndrome children because they are so loving and affectionate.

And the award for the biggest sweeping statement goes to you!!! "

whats wrong with saying that? they are aren't they.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"well I suppose she should of had an abortion if that's what the couple wanted, they shouldn't be forced to bring up a child they don't want, its perfectly understandable.

agree with that. "

Or maybe the people with the power in the relationship should have done more to inform themselves about their surrogate: she's a person with her own thoughts and beliefs and not just an oven for their needs.

Plus they would have lost the daughter they now have. If they wanted to walk away from their agreement with the surrogate the time to abandon her was when she refused the abortion not when twins were born and they pick the one they want and abandon the broken one: also now a person with feelings.

I support the right for a woman to choose abortion but surrogacy is at least a three way relationship and just because you are paying someone you can't expect them to go against such a fundamental belief and live with that guilt for the rest of their lives. I assume the surrogate's husband also shares her beliefs so he is also part of this equation.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

its a worry though what will happen to them when you die."

Apart from the fact it's against her religion......WTF????

Yes, she was acting as a surrogate for the couple but that gives them no right to order her to have a termination. Personally I'd have liked her to have stuck two fingers up and given neither child to them - but I guess she'd been paid and wasn't in a position to do that.

As for what happens to 'them' when you die ? This isn't the dark ages! People live long, healthy lives with Downs these days, can often maintain full independence, have jobs, marry - and do exactly the same things as everyone else.

Read this. A pretty impressive young lad.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-27543429

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The whole issue is just plain wrong.

It smacks of white (presumably) western middle class folk using non white poor people as a commodity. Sadly the situation described is just the same as human trafficking but with middle class acceptability stamped all over it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well I suppose she should of had an abortion if that's what the couple wanted, they shouldn't be forced to bring up a child they don't want, its perfectly understandable.

agree with that.

but why should the Australian parents be forced to raise a child they dont want too?

could argue it both ways.. the surrogate mother made the choice to keep the child against the parents wishes. So ultimately i feel the responsibility was hers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well I suppose she should of had an abortion if that's what the couple wanted

Abortion is against the surrogate mother's beliefs ..."

they should of discussed all that before.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well I suppose she should of had an abortion if that's what the couple wanted

Abortion is against the surrogate mother's beliefs ...

they should of discussed all that before.

Maybe they did but still tried to push her to do it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

messy situation all round

the surrogate didnt compromise by having the abortion and respecting the Australian parents wishes,, and the Australian couple didnt respect the surrogates religious beliefs and didnt compromise by taking home the downs syndrome child.

As parents if they honestly felt they couldnt have dealt with that childs needs would adoption have been a kinder option (if thats possible)

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"well I suppose she should of had an abortion if that's what the couple wanted, they shouldn't be forced to bring up a child they don't want, its perfectly understandable.

agree with that.

And as it's her decision she has to live with the consequences of that decision and bring the child up. Why then did the media get wind of the story?

If they told her how they felt and made it clear that they didn't wish to have a disabled child, while I don't agree with what they did I can't see that the Thai surrogate was clueless to the fact that they wouldn't take him.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

Had both twins been perfectly healthy and the same sex I wonder if the Australian couple would have wanted both?

Or just taken the prettier one?

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"well I suppose she should of had an abortion if that's what the couple wanted, they shouldn't be forced to bring up a child they don't want, its perfectly understandable.

agree with that.

but why should the Australian parents be forced to raise a child they dont want too?

could argue it both ways.. the surrogate mother made the choice to keep the child against the parents wishes. So ultimately i feel the responsibility was hers "

So if they had been able to carry their own child and just perhaps they failed to abort because they didn't find out in time to abort it would be just fine to abandon that baby?

Four months is 20 weeks pregnant. At that point most, I know not you, have been feeling kicks and movement for some time.

I might be being overly affected by this story as none of my babies lived, my son dying being born alive and dying only five weeks over the point this couple requested a tricky abortion. However, this sickens me not because the couple abandoned the boy but because they took the perfect child and abandoned the broken one like he was a box of biscuits in a shop.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Had both twins been perfectly healthy and the same sex I wonder if the Australian couple would have wanted both?

Or just taken the prettier one?

Or said we only wanted one - we didn't choose to have two so it's her fault.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Had both twins been perfectly healthy and the same sex I wonder if the Australian couple would have wanted both?

Or just taken the prettier one?

no I think they would have taken them both.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So if they had been able to carry their own child and just perhaps they failed to abort because they didn't find out in time to abort it would be just fine to abandon that baby?

Four months is 20 weeks pregnant. At that point most, I know not you, have been feeling kicks and movement for some time.

Some people just arent mentally strong enough to deal with disabled children, those who do are amazing and cant imagine how life changing it would be.

im not saying its right, but i think what needs to come first is the care for this young boy, if his well being and health would be better with someone else then id be happier knowing that he isnt with parents who couldnt love, nurture and support him in the way he needs

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

So if they had been able to carry their own child and just perhaps they failed to abort because they didn't find out in time to abort it would be just fine to abandon that baby?

Four months is 20 weeks pregnant. At that point most, I know not you, have been feeling kicks and movement for some time.

Some people just arent mentally strong enough to deal with disabled children, those who do are amazing and cant imagine how life changing it would be.

So why not take him to Australia and put him into care there? I agree that not everyone is capable of raising let alone loving a disabled child. But leaving one in Thailand as a cuckoo seems overly callous (he's white and his new family aren't so he may spot he's different).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Was it Australian husband's sperm and surrogate's egg? Or Australian wife's egg?

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Had both twins been perfectly healthy and the same sex I wonder if the Australian couple would have wanted both?

Or just taken the prettier one?

no I think they would have taken them both.

But surely they'd only 'paid' for one?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I said that previously that the Australians should have had him adopted, guess they are the only ones who know why they have done what they did.

Messy and sad situation

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"I hadn't realised they had asked her to abort. In that case I can't see that it was much of a shock when they didn't take the downs syndrome child.

We have heard little from the couples side and as _iew always says....there are three sides to a story. "

I don't doubt that the surrogate or those acting for her released the story to raise money. The child needs a lot of surgery in a place with no NHS.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

May the wee lad have the best life possible to him, may he flourish and achieve every goal he seeks.

I wish him a happy life, surrounded by love.

He needs no more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Had both twins been perfectly healthy and the same sex I wonder if the Australian couple would have wanted both?

Or just taken the prettier one?

no I think they would have taken them both.

But surely they'd only 'paid' for one?

if it was me id take both, would I have to pay for two then?

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Had both twins been perfectly healthy and the same sex I wonder if the Australian couple would have wanted both?

Or just taken the prettier one?

no I think they would have taken them both.

But surely they'd only 'paid' for one?

if it was me id take both, would I have to pay for two then?"

For the rest of their lives.

As it should be with all parents.

They were an integral part in his creation - just the same as any man who finds himself a parent after a d*unken Friday night bunk up, whether he wanted to be a father or not.

So why should they not bear equal responsibility?

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Had both twins been perfectly healthy and the same sex I wonder if the Australian couple would have wanted both?

Or just taken the prettier one?

no I think they would have taken them both.

But surely they'd only 'paid' for one?

if it was me id take both, would I have to pay for two then?

For the rest of their lives.

As it should be with all parents.

They were an integral part in his creation - just the same as any man who finds himself a parent after a d*unken Friday night bunk up, whether he wanted to be a father or not.

So why should they not bear equal responsibility?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For the rest of their lives.

As it should be with all parents.

They were an integral part in his creation - just the same as any man who finds himself a parent after a d*unken Friday night bunk up, whether he wanted to be a father or not.

So why should they not bear equal responsibility?

off topic here (sorry)

Obi, if you got some girl pregnant and it was a mistake (say you used condoms and she had told you she was taking a contraceptive or sorts), youve known all along you dont want children and asked her to consider termination. She declines your wishes knowing you wont want to be a part of the childs upbringing and still forces you to pay for this child.. you'd think it was unfair right?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Life is life. The babies are little people. Hope the 'parents' can sleep at night.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"although I like downs syndrome children because they are so loving and affectionate.

And the award for the biggest sweeping statement goes to you!!!

whats wrong with saying that? they are aren't they.

No they are not!! People with Downs r not clones of one another they are all unique!! Are all blonde children easy going?? Are all brown eyed children fiesty?? Of course not!! The fact is a lot of children with Downs have other additional special needs. This can make raising a child with Down's syndrome a huge challenge, a challenge that most people have no idea about!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Had both twins been perfectly healthy and the same sex I wonder if the Australian couple would have wanted both?

Or just taken the prettier one?

no I think they would have taken them both.

But surely they'd only 'paid' for one?

if it was me id take both, would I have to pay for two then?

For the rest of their lives.

As it should be with all parents.

They were an integral part in his creation - just the same as any man who finds himself a parent after a d*unken Friday night bunk up, whether he wanted to be a father or not.

So why should they not bear equal responsibility?

NO, I mean would I have to pay the surrogate woman for two.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"For the rest of their lives.

As it should be with all parents.

They were an integral part in his creation - just the same as any man who finds himself a parent after a d*unken Friday night bunk up, whether he wanted to be a father or not.

So why should they not bear equal responsibility?

off topic here (sorry)

Nope.

If I'd done all I could to prevent a pregnancy, as had she - and it still happened? It's still the responsibility of both 'parents' to provide for that child, whether both were involved in it's day to day life or just one.

Unfair doesn't come into it from a parental responsibility side - it's only unfair on the child if responsibility is not taken.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How very sad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"although I like downs syndrome children because they are so loving and affectionate.

And the award for the biggest sweeping statement goes to you!!!

whats wrong with saying that? they are aren't they.

Lol not really , not all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"although I like downs syndrome children because they are so loving and affectionate.

And the award for the biggest sweeping statement goes to you!!!

whats wrong with saying that? they are aren't they.

Lol not really , not all.

Just the ones iv seen and heard about then.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

If abortion is against the surrogates religion I wonder where said religion stands on carrying someone else's child. The media is very much in favour of the surrogate probably quite rightly but bringing religious beliefs into it at this stage is a bit dubious especially since surrogacy is illegal in Thailand her beliefs presumably don't prevent her from breaking the law.

I am pro the child. The adults quite honestly should have behaved very differently in my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"although I like downs syndrome children because they are so loving and affectionate.

And the award for the biggest sweeping statement goes to you!!!

whats wrong with saying that? they are aren't they.

Lol not really , not all.

Just the ones iv seen and heard about then. "

My daughter has downs.. And many of her friends do and they are very varied...

Heard this story first from friends .obviously we get very up in arms but I Will say honestly that had I known in advance my daughter was I can't say what I would have done xx

It's very hard work and luckily for me she has few serious medical issues xx but it is a big thing .

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By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield

Since both these children are the Australian parents genetic offspring it makes me wonder what they would have done if they had created and carried them in the traditional way - would they have abandoned the 'inferior' child at birth as they have done now?

Or finding out they were pregnant with twins would they have aborted or given up for adoption one of the babies because they weren't expecting two?

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Since both these children are the Australian parents genetic offspring it makes me wonder what they would have done if they had created and carried them in the traditional way - would they have abandoned the 'inferior' child at birth as they have done now?

Or finding out they were pregnant with twins would they have aborted or given up for adoption one of the babies because they weren't expecting two?"

That was my thought too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Had both twins been perfectly healthy and the same sex I wonder if the Australian couple would have wanted both?

Or just taken the prettier one?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I don't think we can speculate on what they would have done if the children had been born to them naturally or if the twins had both been "normal". I just think the whole sorry episode is beyond sad.

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By *radleyandRavenCouple
over a year ago

Herts

"For the rest of their lives.

As it should be with all parents.

They were an integral part in his creation - just the same as any man who finds himself a parent after a d*unken Friday night bunk up, whether he wanted to be a father or not.

So why should they not bear equal responsibility?

off topic here (sorry)

Nope.

Unfair doesn't come into it from a parental responsibility side - it's only unfair on the child if responsibility is not taken.

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By *radleyandRavenCouple
over a year ago

Herts

At no point during the story have I heard that it was against her RELIGION, just that it was against her beliefs, ergo: her own beliefs (I would've thought).

To be honest, carrying a child for someone else is one thing, aborting a child on demand is another, especially if you have strong opinions on abortion. - That is something YOU have to live with simply because they have either changed their minds or decided the child isn't exactly how they wanted it to be.

I, for one, couldn't do it and would expect it to be a part of the risk if I agreed to be a surrogate for someone else, but that's just me. - I'm not saying the surrogate is at fault here, I think what that couple did is despicable.

I do hope though that whether illegal or not, some sort of help and protection can be brought in for these women and I'm so happy that little Gammy has had such massive support.

- Amy. x

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