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"Sounds like your company is a bit crap if they only pay ssp. Mine does 6 months full pay 12 months half pay or ssp whichever is greater. Lose your shift allowance though" Thats what MY company does, MY as in I'm the boss. It never used to be this way but we had to do it as one member of staff took the piss, when he takes the piss now it dosent cost us so much. We are over 100 years old so can't be crap | |||
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"Sounds like your company is a bit crap if they only pay ssp. Mine does 6 months full pay 12 months half pay or ssp whichever is greater. Lose your shift allowance though Thats what MY company does, MY as in I'm the boss. It never used to be this way but we had to do it as one member of staff took the piss, when he takes the piss now it dosent cost us so much. We are over 100 years old so can't be crap" Sounds like you're a bit of a crap manager one person abused your sickness ( by taking the piss I assume you mean they weren't genuinely ill) and your solution was to fuck over all of you're staff? Surely good management would have just removed the one fraudster. Surprised they didn't strike. | |||
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"Free market enterprise! Hate big government, hate the public sector, privatise as much as possible, cut gov administration jobs by 50%. Pay less tax, spend more, spur growth and research. Gov gets more tax receipts through increased sales tax, higher wages, lower overheads! I'm totally anti socialist (or should that be anti-social?)" And what will all those people be doing in the private sector? | |||
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"Sounds like your company is a bit crap if they only pay ssp. Mine does 6 months full pay 12 months half pay or ssp whichever is greater. Lose your shift allowance though Thats what MY company does, MY as in I'm the boss. It never used to be this way but we had to do it as one member of staff took the piss, when he takes the piss now it dosent cost us so much. We are over 100 years old so can't be crap" As an owner, instead of taking action against ONE member of staff you abuse your position to stiff your other members of staff?!!  | |||
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"Sounds like your company is a bit crap if they only pay ssp. Mine does 6 months full pay 12 months half pay or ssp whichever is greater. Lose your shift allowance though Thats what MY company does, MY as in I'm the boss. It never used to be this way but we had to do it as one member of staff took the piss, when he takes the piss now it dosent cost us so much. We are over 100 years old so can't be crap As an owner, instead of taking action against ONE member of staff you abuse your position to stiff your other members of staff?!! "It's a minefield - if he had just punished one member of staff for being sick, it could be discrimination. | |||
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"Sounds like your company is a bit crap if they only pay ssp. Mine does 6 months full pay 12 months half pay or ssp whichever is greater. Lose your shift allowance though" I am astounded that so many people are surprised by this.. I have worked for a few companies that do not pay sick pay. And these were not small companies they had turnovers in excess of 100 million... This is not an uncommon thing... | |||
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"Sounds like your company is a bit crap if they only pay ssp. Mine does 6 months full pay 12 months half pay or ssp whichever is greater. Lose your shift allowance though Thats what MY company does, MY as in I'm the boss. It never used to be this way but we had to do it as one member of staff took the piss, when he takes the piss now it dosent cost us so much. We are over 100 years old so can't be crap As an owner, instead of taking action against ONE member of staff you abuse your position to stiff your other members of staff?!!
It's a minefield - if he had just punished one member of staff for being sick, it could be discrimination."The employee continues to "take the piss" which would suggest he's genuinely sick as he's not gaining anything is he? | |||
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"Sounds like your company is a bit crap if they only pay ssp. Mine does 6 months full pay 12 months half pay or ssp whichever is greater. Lose your shift allowance though Thats what MY company does, MY as in I'm the boss. It never used to be this way but we had to do it as one member of staff took the piss, when he takes the piss now it dosent cost us so much. We are over 100 years old so can't be crap As an owner, instead of taking action against ONE member of staff you abuse your position to stiff your other members of staff?!!
It's a minefield - if he had just punished one member of staff for being sick, it could be discrimination.
The employee continues to "take the piss" which would suggest he's genuinely sick as he's not gaining anything is he?
"Indeed. That's the one problem with private sector you can end up with idiots like that I charge and if there's not a large union in place challenging it legally can be too expensive for many to bother with | |||
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"Keep up or die... No survival of the fittest anymore." Once again someone shows painful ignorance of what Darwin ism and natural selection actually means. You'd think they'd teach this shit in schools. | |||
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"Keep up or die... No survival of the fittest anymore." sorry you lost me. Isn't that survival of the fittest ?  | |||
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"Keep up or die... No survival of the fittest anymore." Yeah that's all well and good in an apocalyptic wired, but we're meant to be progressing on the evolutionary ladder. There are vulnerable, poor, victims, unwell people etc etc all who rely on society looking after the greater good of us all. Sure...privatise everything. ..and watch everything become focused on saving money as opposed to service delivery. There will be lame and lazy in all sectors and pros and con's. Just as a teacher is perceived to have cushy holidays..The public sector guy gets perks and free lunches on the company credit card. This is all playground stuff...If you think it's so easy go join up and stop pretending to be a martyr. | |||
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"They would if the teachers got back to work." vast majority are in work. Maybe one day you will feel you need support of others ? | |||
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"Free market enterprise! Hate big government, hate the public sector, privatise as much as possible, cut gov administration jobs by 50%. Pay less tax, spend more, spur growth and research. Gov gets more tax receipts through increased sales tax, higher wages, lower overheads! I'm totally anti socialist (or should that be anti-social?)" ah yes let the 'market' set the agenda, where have you actually been this past 8 yrs?.. | |||
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"And forgive my ignorance, but... If you have adapted to the environment you live in and as a result are more successful & you pass those skills, intelligence and abilities that are hard coded into your DNA, to your descendants. Allowing them to be yet more successful still. Isn't that the very essence if natural selection? Slovenia and USA basketball players are an obvious example of this? No?" I'm afraid you've lost me. ..you must have better teachers than me to get you where you are in life ? I see you claim to be a team player...yet live by the survival of the fittest motto ? Where I come from the unit looks after everyone and the team looks out for each other. Some contradictions in terms there in my opinion. | |||
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"And forgive my ignorance, but... If you have adapted to the environment you live in and as a result are more successful & you pass those skills, intelligence and abilities that are hard coded into your DNA, to your descendants. Allowing them to be yet more successful still. Isn't that the very essence if natural selection? Slovenia and USA basketball players are an obvious example of this? No?" its a dream, think Hitler thought something similar about having a 'master race' too.. it does not follow that the off spring of really clever, hyper fit people etc etc will necessarily be the same.. the fields of Eton and eg. an inner city deprived area will have some who wil stand out either way.. | |||
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"And forgive my ignorance, but... If you have adapted to the environment you live in and as a result are more successful & you pass those skills, intelligence and abilities that are hard coded into your DNA, to your descendants. Allowing them to be yet more successful still. Isn't that the very essence if natural selection? Slovenia and USA basketball players are an obvious example of this? No?" Survival is survival of the genes not the organism. For example intelligence, a good career and aiming for the top of it are actually negative qualities as far as the survival of your genes go. It means you will have fewer kids and they will be born from older parents having more genetic damage/mutations as a result. Fucking lots and having 5 kids before your thirty will ensure your genes survival and dominance much more effectively. Remember with evolution there is no go no continued "advancement" and equally no such thing as "devolution" simply what works at the time Plus were a species that's dominated by sexual selection rather than natural selection so physical or mental capability are not the main determining factor. Much like with certain birds a male could be perfectly adapted to his environment, excellent camouflage and the ability to elude all predators easily living to 20 years before dying of old age. Then there could be a male with a bright red cheat easily seen by all predators and typically only lives 2 years. But the females like the big red chest in thier lives the adapted male breeds only one or twice barking few young. The dude with the red chest breads multiple times each year with multiple females producing dozens of of spring. Soon the species will consist purely of red chested males as that's what is selected for. The exact opposite of what is naturally advantageous. Evolution doesn't think about the end game lol. | |||
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"Maybe one day. And I don't mind giving support... But every other year with this! Firemen, NHS, teachers... Transport union! I may be wrong but I'm unashamedly capitalist. And on an emotional note, I have spent most of my working life visiting the Far East and the Americas. I feel very strongly that we need to ensure our place at the top of the tree and strikes are not the way. Competition and the best getting paid higher wages." Places like America, pay there teachers, fire, police, medical staff and teachers quite well and they are highly respected. Over here people seem to have the opinion, they chose that job so tough... Playing devils advocate... Surely the human race is at some time will start to decline. We have generations of families that won't work, the weak and the stupid continue to breed. In the long run this will take it's toll on our ability to survive... Now I am not saying bring in controls or anything like that, just pointing out facts... | |||
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"And forgive my ignorance, but... If you have adapted to the environment you live in and as a result are more successful & you pass those skills, intelligence and abilities that are hard coded into your DNA, to your descendants. Allowing them to be yet more successful still. Isn't that the very essence if natural selection? Slovenia and USA basketball players are an obvious example of this? No? its a dream, think Hitler thought something similar about having a 'master race' too.. it does not follow that the off spring of really clever, hyper fit people etc etc will necessarily be the same.. the fields of Eton and eg. an inner city deprived area will have some who wil stand out either way.." Actually intelligence is approximately 55% hereditary with the rest being made up by environment. You say Hitler had the idea the British government had it long before him eugenics was a wide spread and highly popular trend in the world at the time. It's only the association it gained with Hitler due to his extreme form of it that actually got it banned in most places carries on in America for decades after the war though. so as fucked up as it is Hitler did more good for the sufferers of genetic illness and potential victims of eugenics than anyone else. Simply by associating himself with it. | |||
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"Governments love the old 'divide and conquer' situation private sector/public sector, workers/those on benefits, young/old. Just because one area has 'benefits' such as 6months paid sick leave doesnt mean that the other sector shouldn't fight for better work conditions. A race to the bottom culture benefits only those at the top. I've worked in both public and private sectors. Both can have slackers."  | |||
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"You see intelligence is in our genes... Surly modern humans proved that? Is this not how we prevailed over other humanoids? Physical mutations have made us stronger, smarter and more resistant to disease. Wouldn't this eventually produce a better form of man? A post human? And in turn wouldn't this spell the end for the "breeders"? Just a theory, trying to extrapolate what you have just said." No your problem is one most people have that evolution is like climbing a ladder getting better with each generation. It's not its simply what works at the time and being the best breeder of your generation. For an interesting _iew on it watch a film called idiocracy. It's a funny does sadly make use of the word devolution though. We didn't so much over come the other humanoids we snagged them and interbreed with them. But evolutionarily speaking having a big brain is a massive gamble. Your brain uses 60 percent of the oxygen of every breath you take. Your an athlete so you know just how much your breathing and oxygen levels can change your bodies ability. Imagine if you had an extra 60 percent more for every breath how much stronger you'd be how much faster how much longer you could run for. Our brains make us physical weak. Fortunately they let us figure out if you smash up bones of something another predator killed an ate. There's tastey tastey jelly inside | |||
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"To be fair... I think we will eat each other long before the decline of the human race. A population of 40M people is born everyday in china and the population of the world doubles roughly every 40 years. At this rate we are going to be doing some serious killing over food, water & resources in the next 500 years or so..." Stop giving aid to Africa, 800 million would be dead in a year. But you can have ten billion people living like Africans for the same amount of resources that about 2 billion peopLe living like Britain's would take. If you look at predator prey graphs there's a rise in prey one year which leads to more food which means more predators the next which means they eat all the pray have lots of babies who then star be the next year cause they ate the prey befor they could breed so the predators decline so the prey come back and so on and so on. Two waves slightly out of sync. As humans we've occasionally reached that point and had famines but we usualy get round it. Eventually though we will over breed then many will die and then once thier dead there's enough resources for us all again and it all balances out | |||
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"I sorry but I think that half of the scrounging scumbags that are on the dole are able to work but cannot be arsed getting out of bed to go and find a bloody job, mind you havin said that the government have made people that way by giving out all this free monies and houses why should they have to work. Makes, me sick as iI have to work like many other hard working honest people . Rant over "Brilliant tactic though by labour get lots of people on benefits then bang instant voter pool they have to keep voting you in or thier free money stops. Combined with the very bad constituency set up we have labour typical have to try hard to lose an elecetion | |||
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 & as a scientist once said to me, admittedly after a few drams:
"Nothing intelligent is ever nice" | |||
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"You see I actually read once that our brains use up 70% of our energy. And follows a similar explanation to yours. Any more brain power would basically kill us. But I'm not so sure about interbreeding with the other humanoids. We killed them. We were smarter and they were far to big and aggressive to reason with (ever tried to fuck a bear & as a scientist once said to me, admittedly after a few drams:
"Nothing intelligent is ever nice""No we didn't we bred with neanderthal we share their DNA. Gave us better immune response though to certain things. Yeah it's 60-70 percent of your glucose too. They weren't that aggressive they where more vegetarian than we were our great bounus was we learned to cook things cooked meat takes much less energy to digest humans have a very very shitty digestive system compared to most animals but it means it free up lots of resources that can be used instead to fuel our wasteful brains | |||
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"You see I actually read once that our brains use up 70% of our energy. And follows a similar explanation to yours. Any more brain power would basically kill us. But I'm not so sure about interbreeding with the other humanoids. We killed them. We were smarter and they were far to big and aggressive to reason with (ever tried to fuck a bear & as a scientist once said to me, admittedly after a few drams:
"Nothing intelligent is ever nice""That was a stupid scientist | |||
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"Ups and downs my friend... The market and supply side economics & the industrial revolution have dragged all of us out of poverty. 8 years is nothing. When you have seen dead people left to rot in the street and vehicles drive round them for fear of being implicated, you learn to love our system." would agree that in relation to where 'we' were prior to the industrial revolution we have benefited however many also of 'we' perished during that time.. my point is that you appear to be advocated unfettered market economics in some race to the top but the fact is when its left to 'us' we fuck it up usually through greed and a fuck you jack mentality.. have seen and dealt with people in poverty also, trouble is your way of thinking would only ever lead to similar I this green and pleasant land for some.. | |||
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"And forgive my ignorance, but... If you have adapted to the environment you live in and as a result are more successful & you pass those skills, intelligence and abilities that are hard coded into your DNA, to your descendants. Allowing them to be yet more successful still. Isn't that the very essence if natural selection? Slovenia and USA basketball players are an obvious example of this? No? its a dream, think Hitler thought something similar about having a 'master race' too.. it does not follow that the off spring of really clever, hyper fit people etc etc will necessarily be the same.. the fields of Eton and eg. an inner city deprived area will have some who wil stand out either way.. Actually intelligence is approximately 55% hereditary with the rest being made up by environment. You say Hitler had the idea the British government had it long before him eugenics was a wide spread and highly popular trend in the world at the time. It's only the association it gained with Hitler due to his extreme form of it that actually got it banned in most places carries on in America for decades after the war though. so as fucked up as it is Hitler did more good for the sufferers of genetic illness and potential victims of eugenics than anyone else. Simply by associating himself with it. " happy to be corrected on the eugenics issue.. probably a poor example but one which sprang to mind given what is being expressed.. | |||
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" • The public sector consists of a higher proportion of older employees and earnings tend to increase with age and experience " need to pick you up on this for clarification.... that use to be the case in the civil service, where you got increases in wages based on how many years they have been there... but these started to be phased out when labour came in in the 90's.... so there are very few of those contracts left... me last 6 years pay rises have been the following... 0%,0%,0%,1%,1% and this april I got 1%....... | |||
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"I don't think capitalism only works by "crapping" people over. "Capitalism is the unequal sharing of wealth, communism is the equal sharing of miseries" WC" So provide an example where it hasn't? | |||
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"America doesn't pay its teachers, police, or fire services very well at all. Sorry, my dad was a police officer and paramedic plus did security jobs whenever he good so that we could scrape by. " I only thought that because I have seen a couple of documentaries where you saw some of the officers cars and houses... They all had new cars and nice houses... I imagine then that they had second jobs or wives/partners with good jobs... | |||
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"Sounds like your company is a bit crap if they only pay ssp. Mine does 6 months full pay 12 months half pay or ssp whichever is greater. Lose your shift allowance though Thats what MY company does, MY as in I'm the boss. It never used to be this way but we had to do it as one member of staff took the piss, when he takes the piss now it dosent cost us so much. We are over 100 years old so can't be crap" Exactly the same story here, one piss taker and I had to re-write employment contracts to tighten up on sickness. | |||
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"I am a business owner, the couple next door are a policeman and a nurse. I don't get flexi-time, I don't get pension contributions cos it's tough in the real world and something had to give. I have seen my salary decrease this year. My average working day is 12 hours usually 6 days a week. I know now that I will be lucky to retire at 70. My policeman neighbour retires next year at 50 on a very comfortable pension. His wife, the nurse, is off ill more often than in work. I've even seen her pretend to go to work so he doesn't see then come back as soon as he leaves. This has been going on for years yet her job is safe. There's not much sign of a recession in their world and they are looking forward to their cruise next month. In my opinion public sector workers complain cos they genuinely do think that the grass is greener on our side of the fence but, trust me, they wouldn't like the real world. Sorry if this offends but it is exactly how I see it . " | |||
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"I am a business owner, the couple next door are a policeman and a nurse. I don't get flexi-time, I don't get pension contributions cos it's tough in the real world and something had to give. I have seen my salary decrease this year. My average working day is 12 hours usually 6 days a week. I know now that I will be lucky to retire at 70. My policeman neighbour retires next year at 50 on a very comfortable pension. His wife, the nurse, is off ill more often than in work. I've even seen her pretend to go to work so he doesn't see then come back as soon as he leaves. This has been going on for years yet her job is safe. There's not much sign of a recession in their world and they are looking forward to their cruise next month. In my opinion public sector workers complain cos they genuinely do think that the grass is greener on our side of the fence but, trust me, they wouldn't like the real world. Sorry if this offends but it is exactly how I see it . " So he has worked for 30 years and paid the highest pension contributions in the UK for those 30 years. They have probably paid off their mortgage so have less out goings. If she is deceiving him and her work she deserves to be caught and delt with... Police officers, as we are talking about them, that joined 10-20 years ago are now paying more money for longer to get less. I know a police officer who joined up 14 years ago to do 30. He has now got 28 to do. His contributions have gone up drastically. So he is paying a lot more money for 28 years to get less... In fact he has done the knowledge... Do you want 60 year old police, fire and paramedics turning up to save your life or would you prefer someone in their 30s or 40s? I know what I would prefer... It's difficult to compare things... I know a business man who was struggling 3 years ago. Looked like he was going under with the loss of 60 plus jobs. Now his business is flying and he is enjoying the rewards. You on the other hand are still fighting the effects of the recession... Do we tar all business owners with the same brush? No. If we wanted to be closed minded we could say you should get another job as you are not successful... Not all businesses or business owners are in the same boat. That goes for public sector workers... I'm sure as damn it though there are many jobs they do that you wouldn't have the stomach for... | |||
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"I am a business owner, the couple next door are a policeman and a nurse. I don't get flexi-time, I don't get pension contributions cos it's tough in the real world and something had to give. I have seen my salary decrease this year. My average working day is 12 hours usually 6 days a week. I know now that I will be lucky to retire at 70. My policeman neighbour retires next year at 50 on a very comfortable pension. His wife, the nurse, is off ill more often than in work. I've even seen her pretend to go to work so he doesn't see then come back as soon as he leaves. This has been going on for years yet her job is safe. There's not much sign of a recession in their world and they are looking forward to their cruise next month. In my opinion public sector workers complain cos they genuinely do think that the grass is greener on our side of the fence but, trust me, they wouldn't like the real world. Sorry if this offends but it is exactly how I see it . " in some ways what your talking about is chalk and cheese, the unsociable hours issue wont I guess be new to both of them during their carers.. again without knowing what their roles are and what you do its difficult to give an accurate comparison.. have family in both camps so see both perspectives personally and certainly small businesses don't appear as sexy to the government of any colour as does 'big business' fact is we need as a society people prepared to do the often not so pleasant and occasionally dangerous jobs, the ones who are happy to set public v private sector against each other then sit and watch some back bite are the ones who have rode the gravy train till the wheels fell off.. not all in any sector are lazy, taking the piss or complaining.. anyone suggesting that in all seriousness is deluding themselves.. | |||
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"I am a business owner, the couple next door are a policeman and a nurse. I don't get flexi-time, I don't get pension contributions cos it's tough in the real world and something had to give. I have seen my salary decrease this year. My average working day is 12 hours usually 6 days a week. I know now that I will be lucky to retire at 70. My policeman neighbour retires next year at 50 on a very comfortable pension. His wife, the nurse, is off ill more often than in work. I've even seen her pretend to go to work so he doesn't see then come back as soon as he leaves. This has been going on for years yet her job is safe. There's not much sign of a recession in their world and they are looking forward to their cruise next month. In my opinion public sector workers complain cos they genuinely do think that the grass is greener on our side of the fence but, trust me, they wouldn't like the real world. Sorry if this offends but it is exactly how I see it . in some ways what your talking about is chalk and cheese, the unsociable hours issue wont I guess be new to both of them during their carers.. again without knowing what their roles are and what you do its difficult to give an accurate comparison.. have family in both camps so see both perspectives personally and certainly small businesses don't appear as sexy to the government of any colour as does 'big business' fact is we need as a society people prepared to do the often not so pleasant and occasionally dangerous jobs, the ones who are happy to set public v private sector against each other then sit and watch some back bite are the ones who have rode the gravy train till the wheels fell off.. not all in any sector are lazy, taking the piss or complaining.. anyone suggesting that in all seriousness is deluding themselves.. " your opinion is as valid as any on here . | |||
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"Ups and downs my friend... The market and supply side economics & the industrial revolution have dragged all of us out of poverty. 8 years is nothing. When you have seen dead people left to rot in the street and vehicles drive round them for fear of being implicated, you learn to love our system." I think it was the Industrial revolution that dragged millions INTO poverty, Almost overnight Mill, Mine and foundry owners had no more need for many of the workforce so they were thrown on the scrapheap. Nothing to do with Genes but all to do with Capitalism at its worst. Gimp | |||
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"Sounds like your company is a bit crap if they only pay ssp. Mine does 6 months full pay 12 months half pay or ssp whichever is greater. Lose your shift allowance though Thats what MY company does, MY as in I'm the boss. It never used to be this way but we had to do it as one member of staff took the piss, when he takes the piss now it dosent cost us so much. We are over 100 years old so can't be crap" Shocking attitude, I'm surprised you still have a work force. I hope you don't get ill although I'm sure you'll be alright for income if you do. | |||
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"Ups and downs my friend... The market and supply side economics & the industrial revolution have dragged all of us out of poverty. 8 years is nothing. When you have seen dead people left to rot in the street and vehicles drive round them for fear of being implicated, you learn to love our system. I think it was the Industrial revolution that dragged millions INTO poverty, Almost overnight Mill, Mine and foundry owners had no more need for many of the workforce so they were thrown on the scrapheap. Nothing to do with Genes but all to do with Capitalism at its worst. Gimp" There were no mills before the industrial revolution. (By mills I mean the huge red brick buildings not a little water mill) It was the revolution and the machines that were invented that meant a massive building where everyone worked became logical before that we had what was called cottage industry everyone made a bit of stuff at home and supplied it to a larger distributor. Mines only became massive once we had steam engines to drain the water from them massively increasing their size and depth and also the need for them for great quantities of iron and coal where nessecery to build the machines. Foundries had a boom like nothing before they weren't making the odd bit of bloom iron in a cupola anymore they where making massive quantities of pig iron and supplied and wrought in it into machines and bridges. I love that you picked the three industries that where the heart of the industrial revolution. | |||
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"I am a business owner, the couple next door are a policeman and a nurse. I don't get flexi-time, I don't get pension contributions cos it's tough in the real world and something had to give. I have seen my salary decrease this year. My average working day is 12 hours usually 6 days a week. I know now that I will be lucky to retire at 70. My policeman neighbour retires next year at 50 on a very comfortable pension. His wife, the nurse, is off ill more often than in work. I've even seen her pretend to go to work so he doesn't see then come back as soon as he leaves. This has been going on for years yet her job is safe. There's not much sign of a recession in their world and they are looking forward to their cruise next month. In my opinion public sector workers complain cos they genuinely do think that the grass is greener on our side of the fence but, trust me, they wouldn't like the real world. Sorry if this offends but it is exactly how I see it . So he has worked for 30 years and paid the highest pension contributions in the UK for those 30 years. They have probably paid off their mortgage so have less out goings. If she is deceiving him and her work she deserves to be caught and delt with... Police officers, as we are talking about them, that joined 10-20 years ago are now paying more money for longer to get less. I know a police officer who joined up 14 years ago to do 30. He has now got 28 to do. His contributions have gone up drastically. So he is paying a lot more money for 28 years to get less... In fact he has done the knowledge... Do you want 60 year old police, fire and paramedics turning up to save your life or would you prefer someone in their 30s or 40s? I know what I would prefer... It's difficult to compare things... I know a business man who was struggling 3 years ago. Looked like he was going under with the loss of 60 plus jobs. Now his business is flying and he is enjoying the rewards. You on the other hand are still fighting the effects of the recession... Do we tar all business owners with the same brush? No. If we wanted to be closed minded we could say you should get another job as you are not successful... Not all businesses or business owners are in the same boat. That goes for public sector workers... I'm sure as damn it though there are many jobs they do that you wouldn't have the stomach for... " | |||
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"You will all be pleased to know I'm on my way to work "Me too, have a lovely day... Cal x | |||
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"You will all be pleased to know I'm on my way to work
Me too, have a lovely day... Cal x"You too x | |||
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"I really do not recognise the ops description of any public sector staff in this country. Any argument that aims to quicken a race to the bottom for all types of staff is repugnant. Raise to equalise, and _iew with suspicion the motives of those who would see our rights and benefits diminished towards the lowest level for all. Divide and conquer tactics that have been used are getting workers _iewing each other with anger etc when that derision and negative attention should be directed at those who seek to divide and conquer us. " It's not just in the workforce. As someone wrote earlier it's old/young, black/white, fat/thin... | |||
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"I've worked in both sectors. There are employees that play the system in both sectors! That's to do with them as individuals rather than the sector that they work in. " | |||
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"Seeing as the teachers strike thread was getting Hijacked i though i would start this more general thread. I appreciate that this is a prickly subject for some, so i would ask for people not to make it personal, as everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I will kick off first. I work in the private sector, i have to fund a pension privately. If i am sick i do not get paid(other than SSP). I do get paid bonuses but they are performance driven.Due to the credit crunch i have not had a pay rise since 2007, however my household costs have gone up(as has the rest of the countries i might add). I think the frontline public sector workers(nurses,teachers, policemen etc)are under appreciated. The ones that do get my back up however are the ones that abuse the system for their own benefit and then moan about pay and conditions. The ones that know they have 6 months sick pay at full salary so use this as additional holiday. The ones that think thats not in my job description so i will not do it. The ones that basically sit on their arses and abuse the system because they know that they can. Ok I am prepared to be shot down in flames so i have the buckets of water on standby.. " It never ceases to amaze me that if someone has better employment terms some peoples response is to try and drag them down rather than improve their own 
Oh and im public sector, and I don't get 6 months full sick pay | |||
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"Ups and downs my friend... The market and supply side economics & the industrial revolution have dragged all of us out of poverty. 8 years is nothing. When you have seen dead people left to rot in the street and vehicles drive round them for fear of being implicated, you learn to love our system. I think it was the Industrial revolution that dragged millions INTO poverty, Almost overnight Mill, Mine and foundry owners had no more need for many of the workforce so they were thrown on the scrapheap. Nothing to do with Genes but all to do with Capitalism at its worst. Gimp There were no mills before the industrial revolution. (By mills I mean the huge red brick buildings not a little water mill) It was the revolution and the machines that were invented that meant a massive building where everyone worked became logical before that we had what was called cottage industry everyone made a bit of stuff at home and supplied it to a larger distributor. Mines only became massive once we had steam engines to drain the water from them massively increasing their size and depth and also the need for them for great quantities of iron and coal where nessecery to build the machines. Foundries had a boom like nothing before they weren't making the odd bit of bloom iron in a cupola anymore they where making massive quantities of pig iron and supplied and wrought in it into machines and bridges. I love that you picked the three industries that where the heart of the industrial revolution." Thats why i picked those three. | |||
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"Ups and downs my friend... The market and supply side economics & the industrial revolution have dragged all of us out of poverty. 8 years is nothing. When you have seen dead people left to rot in the street and vehicles drive round them for fear of being implicated, you learn to love our system. I think it was the Industrial revolution that dragged millions INTO poverty, Almost overnight Mill, Mine and foundry owners had no more need for many of the workforce so they were thrown on the scrapheap. Nothing to do with Genes but all to do with Capitalism at its worst. Gimp There were no mills before the industrial revolution. (By mills I mean the huge red brick buildings not a little water mill) It was the revolution and the machines that were invented that meant a massive building where everyone worked became logical before that we had what was called cottage industry everyone made a bit of stuff at home and supplied it to a larger distributor. Mines only became massive once we had steam engines to drain the water from them massively increasing their size and depth and also the need for them for great quantities of iron and coal where nessecery to build the machines. Foundries had a boom like nothing before they weren't making the odd bit of bloom iron in a cupola anymore they where making massive quantities of pig iron and supplied and wrought in it into machines and bridges. I love that you picked the three industries that where the heart of the industrial revolution. Thats why i picked those three." You picked the three industries that saw massive increases in workforce size and employment but said they made people unemployed. .. | |||
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"So, who's on strike today ? And what are you up to ? " In work feet up trying to think what else to burn with the laser ^_^ Tried to decapitate a plasticine man but it's not powerful enough just burns the plasticine lol | |||
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 oric acid poured straight down the drain)
But without a doubt those very same industries and systems have given ordinary people the chance to provide for their family's. | |||
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"I used to work for a major aerospace subcontractor, their management were on a bonus for increasing profits. Over the 8 years I worked there, workshop staff (highly trained skilled people) got on average 1.5% per year in rises, white collar was always above 2%, when orders dried up workshop staff were laid off with no pay, while office came in but did nothing. Xmas bonus 24 cans or bottle spirit, staff Xmas party free bar subsidized room in hotel. Off sick, SSP for workshop and full pay for offices. The discrepancies in employers treatment of their workers go further then public/private it goes right through society with companies practicing discrimination against sectors of their own workforce in preference to others. A good example of the them/us mentality was when the time clock on the shopfloor was damaged by a reversing delivery van, the one from the office was removed from the office to replace it and office staff were allowed to sign in against their name. If I had the choice I would definitely choose public sector above private, like anyone spending someone else's money they throw it around like confetti." maybe just maybe, the management continued to work outside their core hours, had extensive travel time that was not paid as overtime. just maybe | |||
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" If I had the choice I would definitely choose public sector above private, like anyone spending someone else's money they throw it around like confetti." Can you tell me which department that is, as I will transfer there? | |||
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"And forgive my ignorance, but... If you have adapted to the environment you live in and as a result are more successful & you pass those skills, intelligence and abilities that are hard coded into your DNA, to your descendants. Allowing them to be yet more successful still. Isn't that the very essence if natural selection? Slovenia and USA basketball players are an obvious example of this? No?" No, you are failing to understand adaptation in strictly evolutionary biological terms and applying it to human social, political, and economical closed systems. As others have said evolution is not an end game. Intelligence..strength..skill is relative to a changing environment. Having intelligence wasn't the best survival mode in Pol Pots Cambodia. | |||
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"i thought very long and hard about whether to go in today or not... It was a dilema for me because I fully agree with what the union did, and those who went out I don't blame them... the only reason I did end up going in is because I deal with valunarble elderly and disabled pensioners.... and I didn't want to leave them without cover...." Same here. I'm a front line service and I believe I have a responsibility to the people I deal with. | |||
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"The ones that know they have 6 months sick pay at full salary so use this as additional holiday." I'm public sector and yes, we get paid for sick days. But there are procedures in place to stop abuses. You can't just not turn up because you don't feel like it. Don't just believe the usual Daily Mail style hype that the public sector is full of scroungers. And generally public sector employees get paid less, so there has to be some incentives for people to work there. Greater security is one of them. | |||
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"Ok... Just to clear this up... Evolution IS the ability to adapt in time to your environment, there isn't only biological evolution and what everyone is failing to understand is... "Survival of the fittest" Is an economic term not an biological one. It was just taken by biologists and used to explain their theories. Which are only theories and unless someone on here is by any chance going to solve the mystery of where we come from, they will remain just that. But it's nice to hear your theories... But if anyone hear has a PhD or has written and had published a paper on the evolution of man then I'm listening. Other wise to think you have even the slightest grasp on the subject is a delusion... I enjoy the game, love to sit back, enjoy the ride and see what theories and ideas people come up with, it's entertaining but taking bits of what you have read and suggesting you are well versed in the finer points of evolutionary theory is insulting to all who read. You can question yes... But state?? Can you??" Have you published research on it? If not how is your opinion any more valid? I'm still waiting for an example from you of a capitalist society that hasn't progressed by fucking people and places over? But now you've gone and got all Terminator | |||
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"Not saying my opinion is valid at all... But I never suggest that mine isn't theory and never still try to suggest that somebody else knows less than myself... I find this to be the identifier of the inexperienced. Now... You know it's impossible... But free market capitalism is just the best we have... People get fucked over in every system." Oh I agree - I'm still working on my proposal for something better But it's also inevitable that for a capitalist society to thrive it must exploit. | |||
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"Semantics... But a good question, would that make us god? Ok, I'm in this field, is it that far if a stretch for us to just take what we have now a little further. It was just a theory... The future is told in theory. Another is we will interface with machines, to speed up our "evolution", giving us instant access to information and control. Yet another is, based on less males being born and less masculine features appearing in men, that eventually women will evolve to reproduce asexually. Negating the need for a male. So we would not be having this discussion." It's not intended as semantics. I'm no expert at this and so the progress is probably well ahead of my awareness - but as I understand it at the moment man creates and develops technology. I read something recently about a machine 'thinking' for the first time but can't remember what it actually meant - but seems to me that until machines can evolve independently of man they are not evolving. I think more likely technology and biology will merge and so it is perhaps humans that will become the technology of the future (if you follow what I mean). Other species too no doubt. | |||
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"And a note on our ruthless capitalist society... Isn't it great that we can speak our minds without reprisals, without censorship... Not really that bad to be capitalist, is it? It's easy to make judgements and dismiss other people's ideas when you won the birth lottery?" Societies never had free speech prior to capitalism? Your world _iew seems quite narrow. | |||
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"Semantics... But a good question, would that make us god? Ok, I'm in this field, is it that far if a stretch for us to just take what we have now a little further. It was just a theory... The future is told in theory. Another is we will interface with machines, to speed up our "evolution", giving us instant access to information and control. Yet another is, based on less males being born and less masculine features appearing in men, that eventually women will evolve to reproduce asexually. Negating the need for a male. So we would not be having this discussion." Those are terrible theories especially the asexual one. For starters you'd lose one of the main advantages of needing two partner a, get in diversity it's not something that's going g to happen in a very complex life form. Also can you for the love of god stop abusing the word evolve. | |||
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"And a note on our ruthless capitalist society... Isn't it great that we can speak our minds without reprisals, without censorship... Not really that bad to be capitalist, is it? It's easy to make judgements and dismiss other people's ideas when you won the birth lottery? Societies never had free speech prior to capitalism? Your world _iew seems quite narrow." Technical he has a point there majorly socialist regimes of the past centre were all incredibly oppressive. But could one argue that feudalism was a much more pure form of capitalism with no socialist safety net. And that had pretty much no free speech either. Just like in everything the extreme is not the answer the the middle ground mongrel of all the ideas is strongest just like we have now. | |||
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"I don't know... But I'm sure there are no prerequisites to say you need a conscience. Machines touch us all in one way or another, they have a hand in almost everything we do, from clean water, to power, to transport... Communications, preservation of life, construction of shelter... The list is almost endless. It's not nonsense, it's just a measuring system, as is any test, do you feel your qualifications are nonsense? I think IQ and EQ are very important measures of how certain minds work in certain situations. It's not everything... But it's the system we have. I realise at this point I'm starting to sound very Orwellian... But in reality I'm actually a total non-conformist, but then this isn't reality... Is it?" Go read a brave new world. | |||
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"The world existed and developed long before political ideologies." Yes it did. They developed with mankind from the day we first stood up we inherited social order and politics from the Apes. We just advanced it beyond "I'm the biggest" Or ants if you think they Count. Interestingly termites inventing farming and forced convection air conditioning millions of years before humans. Ants an termites are the boss. | |||
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"The world existed and developed long before political ideologies. Yes it did. They developed with mankind from the day we first stood up we inherited social order and politics from the Apes. We just advanced it beyond "I'm the biggest" Or ants if you think they Count. Interestingly termites inventing farming and forced convection air conditioning millions of years before humans. Ants an termites are the boss." But we never really advanced it beyond 'I'm the biggest'. Who holds power in the world? | |||
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"Evolution doesn't have an end game... Whether diversity goes or not is irrelevant. " No its not. For example bananas have no ability to reproduce natural we removed that hence no seeds in them. This means all the banana crops are actually all basically the same few hundred plants derived from cuttings. Every year we have to be incredibly careful and destroy large batches of banana crops because they're all identical viruses or bacteria can wipe them all out with no chance of defence. If one small one gets infected with specific things we'll burn acres to stop it spreading. No diversity means no defence. Also genetic mutation is how evolution happens having two organisms mix thier info and making mistakes in the process allows for more rapid and secure mutations. As well as populations that survive better Plus it's not an advantage to self fertilise in a species that takes near enough 18 years to mature. Find if you plop out some eggs and then leave but not great for something that requires protection. | |||
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"The world existed and developed long before political ideologies. Yes it did. They developed with mankind from the day we first stood up we inherited social order and politics from the Apes. We just advanced it beyond "I'm the biggest" Or ants if you think they Count. Interestingly termites inventing farming and forced convection air conditioning millions of years before humans. Ants an termites are the boss. But we never really advanced it beyond 'I'm the biggest'. Who holds power in the world?" Some very very small men who would have their heads kicked in by the average chav. Definitely not the biggest We developed it into WE'RE the biggest by cooperating discussing and general manipulating the fuck out of each other | |||
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"Chavs don't have real power. I think she was talking about "real power"" Exactly | |||
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"One way or the other we still subscribe to 'might is right'. The physical stature of the leaders isn't relevant. " Yes it is that's the point of it real power used to be you were the alpha male the guy who could beat up all the rest. Now real power is now if you can convince an entire country to trust you to lead them. Then if you can run a military an economy and international diplomacy. No one man has power any more it's a huge interconnected group. To try and claim things haven't changed is overly simplistic. | |||
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"Chavs don't have real power. I think she was talking about "real power"" And what's really power? To quote a film Where's the robot to pat you on the back? Or the engineer? Or the children, maybe? There, you see now, how all your so-called power counts for absolutely nothing now, how your entire empire can come crashing down because of one... little... cherry. There's no such thing as "real" power only relative power. | |||
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"Ok... Just to clear this up... Evolution IS the ability to adapt in time to your environment, there isn't only biological evolution and what everyone is failing to understand is... "Survival of the fittest" Is an economic term not an biological one. It was just taken by biologists and used to explain their theories. Which are only theories and unless someone on here is by any chance going to solve the mystery of where we come from, they will remain just that. But it's nice to hear your theories... But if anyone hear has a PhD or has written and had published a paper on the evolution of man then I'm listening. Other wise to think you have even the slightest grasp on the subject is a delusion... I enjoy the game, love to sit back, enjoy the ride and see what theories and ideas people come up with, it's entertaining but taking bits of what you have read and suggesting you are well versed in the finer points of evolutionary theory is insulting to all who read. You can question yes... But state?? Can you??" Wrong again. Think you are confusing learning with adaptation. Survival in species relies on a mutant variant within the gene pool of the species being predisposed to survival in a new environment. Therefore species don't learn to survive in a now hostile environment. Over time they perish, those that are predisposed to cope will survive. You don't need a Phd to google the history of the Peppered moth . It explains this mechanism perfectly. | |||
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"Seeing as the teachers strike thread was getting Hijacked i though i would start this more general thread. I appreciate that this is a prickly subject for some, so i would ask for people not to make it personal, as everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I will kick off first. I work in the private sector, i have to fund a pension privately. If i am sick i do not get paid(other than SSP). I do get paid bonuses but they are performance driven.Due to the credit crunch i have not had a pay rise since 2007, however my household costs have gone up(as has the rest of the countries i might add). I think the frontline public sector workers(nurses,teachers, policemen etc)are under appreciated. The ones that do get my back up however are the ones that abuse the system for their own benefit and then moan about pay and conditions. The ones that know they have 6 months sick pay at full salary so use this as additional holiday. The ones that think thats not in my job description so i will not do it. The ones that basically sit on their arses and abuse the system because they know that they can. Ok I am prepared to be shot down in flames so i have the buckets of water on standby.. " Having worked for 24 years in the public sector, the last few years of that as a full time union official, I totally agree with the above. I did put a post in the previous thread, so won't repeat myself here. | |||
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"a lot of the abusing of the sickness procedures is because the line managers have not followed the appropriate process and pass the problematic people around and miss the opportunity to deal with it earlier." That was certainly my experience when I was a union rep. It's just as bad in the private sector too. | |||
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"a lot of the abusing of the sickness procedures is because the line managers have not followed the appropriate process and pass the problematic people around and miss the opportunity to deal with it earlier. That was certainly my experience when I was a union rep. It's just as bad in the private sector too. " ditto the amount of 'managers' unaware of the policies and procedures of the organisation is I would guess not that different between the 2 sectors.. chuck in a lacking in common sense and a bit of power's gone to their head and it can all get stupid.. | |||
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"It's a theory... What you have said is right, but over simplified. And to be fair, you don't need a PhDs to have an opinion or even a valid point. But my theories can't be any worse than yours if your not an expert in the field." Self evidently it's not my theory ! it's mainstream accepted evolutionary theory. Contested only by Creationists, and increasingly marginalised Social Darwinists. I read Chemical Physics at university, which certainly doesn't make me an expert in Evolutionary Biology, but hopefully allows me to assimilate basic Biology. By the way Herbert Spencer, the economist, coined the phrase 'survival of the fittest' after reading Darwin's magnum opus. Darwin went on to use the phrase in subsequent publications..hate to be a pedant, but suspect you might appreciate a bit of pendantry..lol | |||
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"Either way it's an economic term... Two wether contested or not still only theory until tested and irrefutable. Also is it not good for a theory to be contested? Three, it seems that for some reason it has become unacceptable to use words and phrases metaphorically to describe situations in other fields.... When did this happen? Never said it was your (personal) theory, that was obvious and you seem to think I'm disputing it? Just because I take a position, does not mean I think your wrong. Funny... Obviously you think I'm a very one dimensional character? " To be honest I haven't given a lot of thought to your character.All I have been attempting to do is to is to nail a common misconception re adaptation. Did you google re peppered moths?. You do seem very defensive, and I am only posting in the spirit of sharing knowledge. Hopefully that is the aim of progress in science. | |||
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"Thank you, but no, I'm already reading for several courses and to be perfectly honest it's not something that will ever pay off at the end. For now I take your word for it, I will never repeat it. I'm never defensive, but find it's quite a good way to illicit a response." so trolling for a reaction.... that is as telling....... the interesting thing about this "survival of the fittest" stuff that you go on about.... for example, next time you don't feel well or have a condition... don't go and see a "doctor".... see how far you get along then!
see... as much as you would like to admit... the people at the top need the people at the bottom...... and I have this very lovely saying.... because how you treat people on your way up, people when you are on your way back down... people remember! | |||
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I was referencing traditional tales! | |||
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"Maybe it's telling, maybe it's not... To try and use it as the basis for your inferences is folly. And there is nothing wrong with drawing a reaction or giving one. Very often reactions come from the heart. Erm ok.... "Survival of the fittest" if taken to its extreme would mean that I would see the best doctors and have the best medical treatment. I have a good friend who I helped through breast cancer, she is an exec. We were in LA, she had a scan, the found breast cancer, she had the best insurance, she saw one of the foremost breast cancer surgeons in the world, who liaised with one of the foremost plastic surgeons in the world, removed the tumour and re shaped her breasts, to the point where hey looked better than any point in her life. Now then... This woman is the fittest, facilitates 100s of millions of dollars of trade, keeps people in jobs and provides huge amounts of tax payments. The economy needs her. So I pays her enough to provide herself with the best medical care. Right or wrong, 1000s more die or are unable to afford the reshape after the lumpectomy. Are they as needed to the economy? Are they the less fit? You decide." Working on your philosophy, your friend is flawed by having cancer in the first place? If she contracts it again (god forbid) will you cast her aside as being ballast for the supreme beings? | |||
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"Ok quite simply, don't be silly, I'm not a robot. And believe it or not I'm actually a very good friend. I now give as much as I can to breast cancer research, it's something that really affected me and I truly wish that all could have the treatment she was given. But they can't. And to be perfectly honest I'm glad it was my friend who received it, even if that was at the expense of others." Surprisingly that's a rather defeatist attitude. You say you wish everyone could have treatment but they can't? Of course they could if people changed and society structured itself differently instead of being so materialistic and uncaring. Of course that's very idealistic but it's not impossible? Perhaps it's those who are at the top of everything who suppress the concept in case it upsets their equilibrium. | |||
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