FabSwingers.com forum: Working Time Directive

By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

What are people's views regarding this Directive?

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By *uckscouple2007Couple
over a year ago

Bucks

Does that mean everyone is being directed to do some work?

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"What are people's views regarding this Directive? "

brilliant ...how can junior doctors make rational life or death decision when they have been on duty for 24 hours ...also so many companies turning the screw and expecting more and more for the same money ,an archaic japanese work ethic the japs dumped when there workers started to die of stress realted heart attacks .

bring it on

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

I agree with you but the coalition want to "work to limit the application of the Working Time Directive in the United Kingdom." I lifted that off the coalition agreement.

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

"Does that mean everyone is being directed to do some work?

No it isn't lol, how's the cabbage?

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By *uckscouple2007Couple
over a year ago

Bucks

"No it isn't lol, how's the cabbage?"

no ill effects as yet ... no sign of sarah's bath just now having turned into a jaccuzzi

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"I agree with you but the coalition want to "work to limit the application of the Working Time Directive in the United Kingdom." I lifted that off the coalition agreement. "

yeah the minimum effectivness of the legislation no doubt ...would love to see the "spirit" notes what came with the act, as if they take it too literally there will be some legal challenges.

its the same with the legislation re sunday working ,it was everyones right to opt out on religous grounds ,but companies side stepped it by making it a contractual obligation rather than pay overtime .

i hate plc's they need taking down a peg or two ,had it too good for too long

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

Lots of countries are looking to opt out. I understand that parts of the directive will have an impact on employers but like you said who wants to be treated by a Doctor who's been awake for god knows how long.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no idea what it is?

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

"no idea what it is?"

It's an EU directive outlining:

annual leave

rest periods

minimum working hours etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"no idea what it is?

It's an EU directive outlining:

annual leave

rest periods

minimum working hours etc "

is it the limit to the 40 hr working wk??

i had to sign some disclaimer thing at the last bit i worked at because it was sleepover shifts but the rumblings are that these will soon been cancelled, so i dont know how it will work of for 24 hr care packages that are aleady poorly funded xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

overtime is not allowed where I work so if there is an increase in the workload, we just have to try work twice as hard and usually end up losing lunch breaks or taking work home which we cant claim time for...yes, I do realise you can say no, but who does?!

I'm sure I'm not the only one...it's a win/win for the employer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"no idea what it is?

It's an EU directive outlining:

annual leave

rest periods

minimum working hours etc "

Do you mean maximum? Hopefully the minimum is up to ourselves

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By *ickens CiderMan
over a year ago

taunton

My hourly pay x40 hours = I'm fucked?!

I need to work extra hours to keep afloat...

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

It is to stop employers FORCING you to work more than 48 hours a week....Overtime is permitted

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

The working time directive has been in force for years however the uk got a stay of exicution and a watering down of the rules so nobody noticed.

However the HSE is now pushing for companies that have folks working long hours and have a accident to be prosicuted.

I recently had a car crash on my way home and thought it had nothing to do with work as i was driving my own car at the time.

Next thing i know i was being intervied by the HSE as they want to look into taking my company to court as i normally work a 60 hour week then atleast 2 hours traveling daily and they say thats 2 much.

We await the outcome but my company has already said they want me to move to a job nearer home.

Steve

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

That surprises me as travelling time to and from work is not covered by the Working Time Directive, unless you are a travelling rep etc. or are driving a company vehicle.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If applying for a job, you may be asked to sign a disclaimer, or as it's better known the opt out.

Although it'll never be admnitted many employers won't take on staff who don't sign the disclaimer.

Best tactic is to start a job then withdraw from the opt out.

It's widely evaded and abused.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if travelling to and from work ios not in directive,how the bugger do MP's get money for it???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think there are certain careers which should have the (max) 48 hour week enforced and no overtime beyond that permitted. Roles where lives are literally at stake.

For other positions, as long as common sense in exercised (e.g. don't work 15 hours a day and then wonder why you can't concentrate on the road when driving home) the spirit and intent of the current regulations do not seem unreasonable to me.

I am a huge advocate for maintaining a reasonable work/life balance even if I'm not the best example of this myself sometimes!

Most people opt out of the WT regs without even realising as alot of employers build an opt-out clause into their terms and conditions of employment these days. I've only ever once written to an employer to opt back into them.

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

"no idea what it is?

It's an EU directive outlining:

annual leave

rest periods

minimum working hours etc

is it the limit to the 40 hr working wk??

48hr maximum working week hun

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

"no idea what it is?

It's an EU directive outlining:

annual leave

rest periods

minimum working hours etc

Do you mean maximum? Hopefully the minimum is up to ourselves

You are awake then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"no idea what it is?

It's an EU directive outlining:

annual leave

rest periods

minimum working hours etc

is it the limit to the 40 hr working wk??

48hr maximum working week hun"

cool cheers wasnt sure! dont know why i had to sign it i was only a 30 hr contract but possibly because if things did change and no sleepovers it would have added to my hrs x

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

"no idea what it is?

It's an EU directive outlining:

annual leave

rest periods

minimum working hours etc

is it the limit to the 40 hr working wk??

48hr maximum working week hun

cool cheers wasnt sure! dont know why i had to sign it i was only a 30 hr contract but possibly because if things did change and no sleepovers it would have added to my hrs x"

If I remember correctly it may be because they specify a nightshift should not exceed 8hrs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

that could be a problem. opencasts are 12 hr niteshifts and many care providers are 12hr nightshifts ! xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This Coalition Mob, will have kids back up chimneys

They want to "Cherry Pick" E.U. Directives, to suit their own ends, ie.less holidays then other E.U. countries, easier to close British Companies than in other member states, the list is endless....

We either get into the E.U. 100%.... or get out of it altogether.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now I'm in a dilemma, I don't know whether to answer this thread and risk being accused of being a Tory sycophant again or just shut the fuck up altogether whilst Labour supporters say what they like.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Now I'm in a dilemma, I don't know whether to answer this thread and risk being accused of being a Tory sycophant again or just shut the fuck up altogether whilst Labour supporters say what they like.

Are you feeling alright?

Your opinion is your opinion and as valid as anyones on here....

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

All equals here Wishy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was nearly killed by a Junior Doctor in the last hour of his last 56 hour shift, as I had my son inside me, he would probably have died too. That was 1990. If you think that those who have worked for 2 1/2 days without proper rest can make good decisions, oh dear!

Dr Al Melaki took over, son dragged out by forceps, whisked to SKBU, me given blood transfusion! A tired doctor's near fatal decision reversed in moments and a happy outcome, not 2 dead "patients"! Of course the Directive is right!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you feeling alright?

Your opinion is your opinion and as valid as anyones on here...."

Not on the other thread it appears.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was nearly killed by a Junior Doctor in the last hour of his last 56 hour shift, as I had my son inside me, he would probably have died too. That was 1990. If you think that those who have worked for 2 1/2 days without proper rest can make good decisions, oh dear!

Jesus! That's horrific. Siren had some serious problems with the birth of our son last year (she was placenta previa and went into labour, which, as you probably know, is a definate no-no!) but the QE hospital in Gateshead were fantastic in dealing with everything, and both mother & son were fine.

I'm glad things turned out ok for you and I absolutely support a working time directive on doctors if nobody else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's exactly one of the roles that should be stricly subject to the regs!

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

"That's exactly one of the roles that should be stricly subject to the regs!"

Totally agree and should include fire brigade too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think all the emergency services, care and medical staff should definately be subject to strict rules and the list probably shouldn't end there either.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you feeling alright?

Your opinion is your opinion and as valid as anyones on here....

Not on the other thread it appears."

we accept you even if you are a tory sycoph whatever it is!! x

there def are some occupations that need that rule, tiredness can kill and your not in full sense if you are tired xx

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By *adchickCouple
over a year ago

Cyprus

"no idea what it is?

It's an EU directive outlining:

annual leave

rest periods

minimum working hours etc "

Will that apply to all military service workers? including warzone personnel?

I bet not!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Will that apply to all military service workers? including warzone personnel?

I bet not!"

That thought crossed my mind too and it probably deserves a whole seperate discussion as I'm sure some would question our involvement in current activities full stop.

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

"no idea what it is?

It's an EU directive outlining:

annual leave

rest periods

minimum working hours etc

Will that apply to all military service workers? including warzone personnel?

I bet not!"

I doubt that very much but in a perfect world it should. How can people make decisions that could affect their comrades and themselves when they're too tired to think straight. I know our guys n gals get training but tiredness is a killer.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"no idea what it is?

It's an EU directive outlining:

annual leave

rest periods

minimum working hours etc

Will that apply to all military service workers? including warzone personnel?

I bet not!"

The working hours directive does not cover several groups, including Military Personnel (at home or abroad).

Neither does it cover Police/Fire/Ambulance/Paramedics.

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

"no idea what it is?

It's an EU directive outlining:

annual leave

rest periods

minimum working hours etc

Will that apply to all military service workers? including warzone personnel?

I bet not!

The working hours directive does not cover several groups, including Military Personnel (at home or abroad).

Neither does it cover Police/Fire/Ambulance/Paramedics."

If I remember correctly it also excludes workers on oil rigs

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

It was brought in to protect workers from being forced into unreasonable working hours by poor employers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"that could be a problem. opencasts are 12 hr niteshifts and many care providers are 12hr nightshifts ! xx"

I used to work 10 hr night shifts.

For the social services , thankfully they dont do it now but care providers do .

I also think that travelling to and from work should be included in any directive.

I reckon most accidents happen when people are so bloody tired after work and then having to drag themselves out of bed again in the morning.

though all this for me is irrelevent as im now retired

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

"that could be a problem. opencasts are 12 hr niteshifts and many care providers are 12hr nightshifts ! xx

I used to work 10 hr night shifts.

For the social services , thankfully they dont do it now but care providers do .

I also think that travelling to and from work should be included in any directive.

I reckon most accidents happen when people are so bloody tired after work and then having to drag themselves out of bed again in the morning.

though all this for me is irrelevent as im now retired

Tiredness and driving are a potentially lethal combination.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Used to work a 120 hour week when I was young, which was standard for my profession then and made some pretty poor life or death decisions, has to be said.

WTD a bit of a nightmare for small businesses and in mine, a real nightmare where the hours have to be covered but the money isn't there to cover the extra staff involved. However, one of the reasons I'm not a boss

)

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

"Used to work a 120 hour week when I was young, which was standard for my profession then and made some pretty poor life or death decisions, has to be said.

I mentioned earlier that it'd impact on the employers but so could being fined by the HSE for unsafe working practices.

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By *ouvakMan
over a year ago

clacton on sea

I worked as a long haul lorry driver for many years, and we have had working regulations for year's, in the form of tachographs in the cab, can you imagine the devastation an over tired lorry driver can cause,,,,,,, I can I've seen it here and in Europe, tiredness can creep up on you even if you have had a good nights sleep if you are overworking yourself, it's unhealthy for you and downright dangerous for those around you, it's time bad working practise's were stopped completely. death in the work place caused by an over tired worker not only is bad for the employer but for the workforce, the trauma it cause's can lead to untold days off and psychological problems

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"that could be a problem. opencasts are 12 hr niteshifts and many care providers are 12hr nightshifts ! xx

I used to work 10 hr night shifts.

For the social services , thankfully they dont do it now but care providers do .

I also think that travelling to and from work should be included in any directive.

I reckon most accidents happen when people are so bloody tired after work and then having to drag themselves out of bed again in the morning.

though all this for me is irrelevent as im now retired

Tiredness and driving are a potentially lethal combination."

yeah its how fast it comes on too ...i just pull up and dont try and drive through it after a really worrying 10 seconds on the m6 (thankyou rumble strip )..

i also have the aircon on now and try and take some of the toxic cocktail out of my face ...seems to help

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm constantly tired and my job means i can be on the road for over 12 hours a day.

Sometimes i pull into a layby for a rest and before i know it its 2 hours later as i have crashed out

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"I'm constantly tired and my job means i can be on the road for over 12 hours a day.

Sometimes i pull into a layby for a rest and before i know it its 2 hours later as i have crashed out

thats worrying i bet ,mind you all those exhaust fumes on the motorway ,its not surprisingf is it .....bet you snore and dribble as you sleep ...i wonder how many have laffed as they walked past ....pmsl ...sorry mate only joking

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"overtime is not allowed where I work so if there is an increase in the workload, we just have to try work twice as hard and usually end up losing lunch breaks or taking work home which we cant claim time for...yes, I do realise you can say no, but who does?!

I'm sure I'm not the only one...it's a win/win for the employer "
Invite a union in one lunch break ,,, if the company refuse work to rule ,,,,, if u all stick together you will win

remember " unity is strength

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By *umpingJackFlashMan
over a year ago

Somewhere near you?

Having worked under this directive as a truck driver, I thought I'd shove my 2penrth in. In theory for safety its a good idea. In practise for a truck driver it fails terribly. Your limited to an average of 48 hours per week over a period of weeks. so in theory you can still work overtime. But if your average is over 48 hours per week you must then make up the difference with time off (UNPAID).

That means on the current wage a class one driver can JUST scrape by on his wage. God knows how class two drivers and van drivers manage. If companies were to be forced into giving people a salaried 48 hour contract (like they were originally supposed to in the first draft of this legislation) it would have been less of a problem. But the companies sucessfully lobbied against this. So if you are forced by the legislation to take a bunch of hours off to get your average down your pay is docked, even if your average is up due to the companies insistence that you work overtime.

The old Tacho rules were safe enough so why they brought this in is beyond me. The French drivers (and possibly other Europeans) have choosen to ignore this new rule btw.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Having worked under this directive as a truck driver, I thought I'd shove my 2penrth in. In theory for safety its a good idea. In practise for a truck driver it fails terribly. Your limited to an average of 48 hours per week over a period of weeks. so in theory you can still work overtime. But if your average is over 48 hours per week you must then make up the difference with time off (UNPAID).

The old Tacho rules were safe enough so why they brought this in is beyond me. The French drivers (and possibly other Europeans) have choosen to ignore this new rule btw. "

So if you were a victim of this rule and you really thought you were safe to drive, why not get in touch with your MP and say so?

What I am completely getting is that no-one ever gets in touch with their MP! Then we complain they know nothing when we tell then nothing.

Ooohh, wonder why what we want never happens!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you feeling alright?

Your opinion is your opinion and as valid as anyones on here...."

Here here! I was just counting on my fingers how many hours i work in the pub (my second job) and trying to add it to my day job, reckon i easily do 48 hrs every week, christ no wonder im knackered all the time

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

The old Tacho rules were safe enough so why they brought this in is beyond me. The French drivers (and possibly other Europeans) have choosen to ignore this new rule btw.

So if you were a victim of this rule and you really thought you were safe to drive, why not get in touch with your MP and say so?

What I am completely getting is that no-one ever gets in touch with their MP! Then we complain they know nothing when we tell then nothing.

Ooohh, wonder why what we want never happens!!

oooh i do ,i lure him -her in with the simple questions first ,watch em spin ,then ask the difficult ones,great sport ....i told my last one (a minister) ,you better sort out unemployment benefit ..you will definately need it after the election next year and smiled ...he looked wistfully and said i think your right ....i was.

interestingly he spoke candidly and said the only reason they supported rbs was it funded the energy industry which meant 400,000 jobs were at risk -300,000 here and 100,000 overseas .

So go see your MP's its what they are there for !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"interestingly he spoke candidly and said the only reason they supported rbs was it funded the energy industry which meant 400,000 jobs were at risk -300,000 here and 100,000 overseas .

So go see your MP's its what they are there for !

Surely it wasn't the *only* reason Brown bailed out the banks to stave off a worldide depression single-handedly and save a couple of hundred thousand jobs and keep a support base in scotland, was it?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

RBS alone hold 1.2m UK mortgages, and god knows how many pensions can be attributed to this bank.

Not to mention savings, if the last government had allowed RBS to capsize, there would have been people climbing over each other to insist that the government bail these Pensions and Savings out.

And then the problem would still exist with the mortgages and business loans, people hang their whole life on their house...should we have just left them out to dry?

The Conservatives would have done exactly the same as the last government, it makes far more sense in the long run to assume ownership of RBS rather than have a bill for Billions in compensation with nothing left to show for it after.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes I know. RBS had to be bailed out. Too much was at risk if they were permitted to go under. At least this new government has agreed that the Equitable Life pension holders should also be recompensed for their losses too as it was the same lack of regulation that sent that company down. My father-i-law has been retired for a few years now, his pension is with EL - and it was his main provision for his retirement.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

It's true that the global banking crisis has had an enormous effect on the enonomies of many major European and North American nations, the whole pension black hole thing is extremely worrying.

At some point in the very near future there will be further Equitable Life type disasters, it's like a ticking time bomb.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It was a LibDem manifesto pledge to honour the EL policy holders to I'm relieved that Clegg got it through in the coalition agreement, if only for my father-in-law's sake - when it is honoured is another matter entirely though.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Saw BBC2 Working Lunch last week and they reckon the new government may honour up to 40p in the pound for EL pension holders.....I do hope so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Saw BBC2 Working Lunch last week and they reckon the new government may honour up to 40p in the pound for EL pension holders.....I do hope so."

The Coalition Agreement stated that they would honour the EL policy holders as per the Commission Report into it that recommended pension losses should be reimbursed as though it had never happened. I haven't seen any further reports into it. Thanks for the heads up, I'll go have a look.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

The estimate was £1.9b a year for the next Five years, that is based on a 40p in the pound plan.

There are just over a million EL pension holders.....

Not so sure the Tories factored this into their cost cutting plans though, lets just hope for the sake of these EL members that this becomes a reality.

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By *ovefun2Couple
over a year ago

wakefield

it issuse with the drivers isnt the working time directive , its that his basic hrly rate is to low ,

theres also the issue of how his company rotas his hrs ,

where does it say in the directive that if the adverage hrs over the referance period are to high that he has to take time off unpaid ?

driver have a differant working time directive , dependant on the referance period it is possible for a driver to work up to 62 hrs a wk - is there anyone who would suggest that it would be safe to driver a 30 tonne hgv after such long hrs ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a lorry driver as well, we have to adhere to the wtd and tacho laws as well which can be confusing at times. As above people have stated we have to average hours over the week and can only work so many hours in a fortnight, then have to take min 48hr rest. Its anightmare and needs to be seriously looked at for all people

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By *exetera OP Woman
over a year ago

Bridgend

Putting what's on paper in to practise can prove difficult but I recognise the ethos of the WTD and the safety of employees should be paramount.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This Coalition Mob, will have kids back up chimneys

They want to "Cherry Pick" E.U. Directives, to suit their own ends, ie.less holidays then other E.U. countries, easier to close British Companies than in other member states, the list is endless....

We either get into the E.U. 100%.... or get out of it altogether..... "

Hasn't Britain done that ever since we became members?

Taken all the shit rules that benifit the bosses but not the workers and ignored the ones that benifit the workers.

Its always been the same and no doubt always will be because,say what you like about the French,they stick together and don't take shit from the EEC unlike us.

XXXX

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

"That surprises me as travelling time to and from work is not covered by the Working Time Directive, unless you are a travelling rep etc. or are driving a company vehicle."

I think you will find if you dont have a fixed place of work then your time spent on the road is included as part of your working day as far as the HSE are concerned although the company would have us believe otherwise.

The HSE also do not accept how long you say it takes you to drive home but instead do a calculation based on the average speed of 46mph to work out how long it will take to cover the distance.

As for the restricted hours to be worked only by some people as suggested on here, I make life & death decisions for other people many times a day as part of my working life but could just as easy kill loads of people on my way home just by falling asleep driving home in the car so i would say it should cover everyone no matter what job you do.

Steve

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By *umpkinMan
over a year ago

near the sounds of the wimborne quarter jack!

The WTD can be a nightmare for Local Authorities too. Imagine having a winter like we`ve just had. HGV gritter drivers not knowing if they`re going to be working at night gritting or through the day on general work, not knowing if they`ve got to sleep during the day or night ..... I`ve seen gritter drivers walking round the yard where I work looking like zombies

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By *1dKingColeMan
over a year ago

east london

I have just got the new contract/starter pack for my job that starts next week.

"Please sign 2nd copy of everything and return."

Lift the covering letter and the opt-out is right at the top.

Quote: "At this level/role we expect people to opt-out".

I have been unemployed for a bit now, do I sign?

Lets face it, we all know the answer.

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

"I have just got the new contract/starter pack for my job that starts next week.

"Please sign 2nd copy of everything and return."

Lift the covering letter and the opt-out is right at the top.

Quote: "At this level/role we expect people to opt-out".

I have been unemployed for a bit now, do I sign?

Lets face it, we all know the answer."

Its shit and it really makes me mad stuff like that cos as you say you dont have an option of saying no

Steve

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have just got the new contract/starter pack for my job that starts next week.

"Please sign 2nd copy of everything and return."

Lift the covering letter and the opt-out is right at the top.

Quote: "At this level/role we expect people to opt-out".

I have been unemployed for a bit now, do I sign?

Lets face it, we all know the answer."

The real question you must answer is: Does opting out not bother you but you'd like to have a free choice over it?

If it doesn't bother you, then sign the contract and enjoy your new job.

On the other hand, if you feel strongly that being forced to opt out is wrong, then you face another question:

How much do you want the job?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Legally companies are not permitted to suggest to workers or potential workers that they Opt Out of the Working Time Directive under European Law.

If you have this in writing then take it straight to your solicitor and watch the company in question pay you out of court.

Would any company really be this stupid?

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

To confirm the European Law on the Working Time Directive Opt Out.

Companies can freely hand an employee or potential employee a copy of an opt out, they cannot however suggest to any employee or potential employee that they would not keep their job or gain a job if they decide against signing such an opt out.

You can cancel your opt-out agreement whenever you want - even if it is part of your employment contract. However, you must give your employer at least seven days notice. This could be longer (up to three months) if you previously agreed this in writing with your employer.

Your employer is not allowed to force you to cancel your opt-out agreement.

If you have this in writing then this employer has made an incredible cock up, they have given you an almost guaranteed damages claim.

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By *umpingJackFlashMan
over a year ago

Somewhere near you?

"it issuse with the drivers isnt the working time directive , its that his basic hrly rate is to low ,

theres also the issue of how his company rotas his hrs ,

where does it say in the directive that if the adverage hrs over the referance period are to high that he has to take time off unpaid ?

Yes the basic wage is the lowest in the country for a vocationary qualified profesional.

Now as for working a 62 hour week and still being a safe and able driver, yes that is possible. One thing with the working time directive is the use of standing time (IE the time waiting to be put on a bay to be unloaded and, as long as your not roped into helping, time taken to load and unload) If you experience a lot of waiting time that you know about in advance. Then it doesn't count towards your working time.

All rdc's like Asda, Morrisons, tesco's, ect can have in excess of 4 hours waiting to get on a bay and sometimes as long being tipped. During that time a driver has to be "on call" but usually is resting in his bunk.

Now notice the phrase "Know about in advance" It is never fully explained in the directive. Most companies expect that if the security guard on the gate of where you are delivering says "We're running behind a bit!" then you have been told about it in advance!

The original directive was supposed to protect the public safety, the rights of the worker and the quality of life. But as (since the companies got rid of the requirement to pay you if they have to reduce your hours under the WTD) hours are reduced so is your pay, so is your quality of life!

On an aside if you drive a company van/car which they allow you to take home then your journey to/from work IS accountable for in the WTD hours.

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By *umpingJackFlashMan
over a year ago

Somewhere near you?

"The WTD can be a nightmare for Local Authorities too. Imagine having a winter like we`ve just had. HGV gritter drivers not knowing if they`re going to be working at night gritting or through the day on general work, not knowing if they`ve got to sleep during the day or night ..... I`ve seen gritter drivers walking round the yard where I work looking like zombies

I took it that Gritters were classed as Emergency Operatives/Contractors and were thus exempt from both tacho and WTD measures, just like sewerage workers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Your employer is not allowed to force you to cancel your opt-out agreement.

If you have this in writing then this employer has made an incredible cock up, they have given you an almost guaranteed damages claim.

If the pay out far exceeds even 6 months wages then it may be worth puruing but if it isn't then his time at the company is going to be very short and then he'll be out of a job again. In these uncertain times I'm not sure I'd want the short term potential gain of litigation and no job. at the end of it. Maybe some companies realise this and gamble on it.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

It's not the compensation due to the plaintiff they have to worry about, it's the fine.

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