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HRRRR.. and you wonder why I didn't vote Labour!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7127819.ece

Billions of pounds in public money was committed in the run-up to the election campaign in a deliberate strategy to boost Labour’s chances at the ballot box and sabotage the next government.

One former Labour minister told The Sunday Times: “There was collusion between ministers and civil servants to get as many contracts signed off as possible before the election was called.”

One former adviser to the schools department said there was a deliberate policy of “scorched earth”. “The atmosphere was ‘pull up all the railways, burn the grain stores, leave nothing for the Tories’,” he added.

Yet more money that has to be found to honour these contracts!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Burin

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Burin"

Which is Russian for what?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And now that he's got 55% plus of MPs by selling out his Tory principles to LibDems (thank goodness someone will rein back the Tory Twats), you don't think it a little odd that Mr Spameron is trying to change the system so that it takes 55% plus to get rid of an unelected government? Boring as it may be, it's still called politics, of course they'll do all they can to get their own way whilst trying to look the good guy and hoodwink us!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Did you actually read the article?

Do you know what it is about?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nope, nor did anyone much else I suspect, all a little tired of it by now! No-one won and we all never will!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Nope, nor did anyone much else I suspect, all a little tired of it by now! No-one won and we all never will! "

your a damn good advertisement for women in politics

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

to be honest, im past the stage of caring!! the next five years are going to be interestin times and i cant wait to see what lies and propaganda come out about the "big boy did it and ran away" or she said he said he did this that and the next thing!

the only thing that is gonna interest me is am i goin to be any better off? is my life goin to change miracolously? or is things goin to take a downturn??

is messiah dave gonna end the squalor and misery that some are livin in or is it gonna be every man/woman for themselves?

is the gap between rich and poor gonna get any better? so many questions and five years to scrutinise the answers while being fed a lot of propaganda bullshit and lies. oh whoopee. oxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Nope, nor did anyone much else I suspect, all a little tired of it by now! No-one won and we all never will!

your a damn good advertisement for women in politics "

Excuse me, me and Harriet, buddies we are! lol Just it's gone on for too long, it's being a little manipulated, and I amongst many others cannot be interested in now meaningless nothingness that will all end in tears within 2 years! And who'd be mama Milliband right now? lol

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

It's as important now, that the election is over and done with, that we understand what was going on while Brown and his bunch of goddam incompetents were asking us for our votes.

While Brown stood up there on TV during those debates saying that the economy was safe in his hands, his party was actively and deliberately sabotaging the economy so that the incoming government were on a hiding to nothing before they even won the election - and if Labour had won they'd have simply spent more money we didn't have honouring these 'scorched earth' policies.

It's important to remember that at the next election when Millie and his bro ask you for your vote again. You remember Maggie well enough, well, remember what Labour did too - not only during the last three months but over the last 13 years.

This proves that Labour put party politics ahead of what's best for the country, and ex-Labour ministers are clamouring to admit it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You’d do well as the conservatives spokesman wishy, haven’t seen as much propaganda since the gulf war

Should be looking forward not backwards, cam the sham promised the people he’s gonna fix britian, so lets hope he does, but somehow I can foresee many threads like this, and every time he fails to fix things, his supporters will blame labour at the earliest opportunity, win win situation, do nowt and still look good.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"

This proves that Labour put party politics ahead of what's best for the country, and ex-Labour ministers are clamouring to admit it."

And you think only ONE party do that to win an election? Get real wishy...the Cameron nor other Tory MP's are saints, you just seem to have them on a pedestal.

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside


"

This proves that Labour put party politics ahead of what's best for the country, and ex-Labour ministers are clamouring to admit it.

And you think only ONE party do that to win an election? Get real wishy...the Cameron nor other Tory MP's are saints, you just seem to have them on a pedestal."

It's very easy for a wobbly pedestal to fall over though

If it does there will always be some that will still say Labour pushed it!

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

The 'fair weather' Tory voters are already sensing things might not be so cushy after all.....

When they catch on that the Tory promises will amount to nothing much for the majority of the population you won't hear them bleating on so much, less than a week into the coalition and the Tory lovers are already making excuses.

We haven't even reached the much awaited 'New winter of discontent' yet....can hardly wait!

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

not even started,and thats the tories,making excuses for being shit.how predictable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Article in the Times... Labour Party......

Nuff said.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh its all about what you read...each paper has it's allegiance and if you read the times it's obviously going to rake up the mud about labour.

i take it all with a pinch of salt and rather use my own judgement, not the personal opinion of a ranting journo.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

always good to get a balanced view thats why i get a few newspapers then compare the contradictions and usually end up more confused lol xx

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

the thing is if the government of the day have been working on projects for a few years i would rush to get them completed prior to an election ,its nothing new really

The Tories done it with the Northern Relief road which Labour committed to scrap in their manifesto in 97.Prescott got into the books to find it would of cost more to scrap than to do it. due to the punitive penalties the tories wrote into it before the Election.In fact i think the man who did that is now a junior member of the current government.

If the tories now go and bring in legislation sropping those contracts no one will ever trust the British Government again.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

for a bit of context... they are not the only people to do stuff like this...

the outgoing US administrations to this all the time, in the sence of plans that can't get out of... or presidential pardons to people ect ect

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By *aintmikeMan
over a year ago

glasgow

sex and politics,,now there,s something unusual.. ,, our opinions are not what governments listen to,, our actions are,,with the current climate, ash clouds new gov,, we,re all doomed any one fancy a last shag,,

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By *exeteraWoman
over a year ago

Bridgend

My positive slant on it would be that they were still in government and were dotting the i's and crossing the t's on work they'd committed to. I never trust a story when no-one's names are attached to it. Could have been Dave or Nick or any other cabinet member calling up the papers proclaiming Labour'd done the dirty on them.

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By *habsMan
over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

...Doctor Who anyone? (just about to watch it on iplayer was in bed long before my bed time last night)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

This proves that Labour put party politics ahead of what's best for the country, and ex-Labour ministers are clamouring to admit it.

And you think only ONE party do that to win an election? Get real wishy...the Cameron nor other Tory MP's are saints, you just seem to have them on a pedestal.

"

That isn't the point I'm trying to make - unsuccessfully it seems. We've heard much about how Thatcher screwed the country up (and some even believe that she's exacting some sort of influence STILL), and we've heard much about the good Labour have done over 13 years. All I'm trying to do is paint a more realistic picture that Labour or Tory, they're not as altruistic as they would have us believe.

I understand the comments that I'd make a good progoganda minister for the Tories etc etc .. but I'm defending my postiion as others have defended theirs. I like to think that over the past few weeks on these political threads that I've come across as someone who has an inkling about what politics is and that I can take an abstract view of all the parties and politicans.

It remains to be seen if the new government can turn things around or not, but if they don't then I'll be one of their loudest critics.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Governments always sign off on contracts they have agreed leading up to an election, nothing new in this.

Governments must deal with thousands of contracts every year, so why is it hard to believe that there would have been contracts that needed to be signed off in the final days of the last government?

Right wing press making mischief again.

They will have something REAL to write about in the coming weeks as the 55% vote is put before the House of Lords, with many Tories and Lib Dems joining Labour in opposing this attack on the constitution.

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By *exeteraWoman
over a year ago

Bridgend


"

This proves that Labour put party politics ahead of what's best for the country, and ex-Labour ministers are clamouring to admit it.

And you think only ONE party do that to win an election? Get real wishy...the Cameron nor other Tory MP's are saints, you just seem to have them on a pedestal.

That isn't the point I'm trying to make - unsuccessfully it seems. We've heard much about how Thatcher screwed the country up (and some even believe that she's exacting some sort of influence STILL), and we've heard much about the good Labour have done over 13 years. All I'm trying to do is paint a more realistic picture that Labour or Tory, they're not as altruistic as they would have us believe.

I understand the comments that I'd make a good progoganda minister for the Tories etc etc .. but I'm defending my postiion as others have defended theirs. I like to think that over the past few weeks on these political threads that I've come across as someone who has an inkling about what politics is and that I can take an abstract view of all the parties and politicans.

It remains to be seen if the new government can turn things around or not, but if they don't then I'll be one of their loudest critics."

We're all entitled to our opinions and good news doesn't sell papers.

The coalition agreement and the con dem promises are worthless unless they're implementd. Then we can judge them on their action or inaction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

All I'm trying to do is paint a more realistic picture that Labour or Tory, they're not as altruistic as they would have us believe.

"

I dont think anyone thinks that they are...otherwise the results of the election would have been more clearly defined. The fact it was an almost equal split shows, to me, a country uncertain that any party could take us forward with any success and that the country has no faith in any one party

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Governments always sign off on contracts they have agreed leading up to an election, nothing new in this.

Governments must deal with thousands of contracts every year, so why is it hard to believe that there would have been contracts that needed to be signed off in the final days of the last government?"

Don't you think that there's something sinister about an outgoing administration deliberately 'having a firesale' on their way out in order to leave the incoming government a total mess to clear up? Is this looking out for the country? Looking out for us?

I know they all do it, but with it still being so fresh in my mind watching Brown up there saying that the economy was safe in his hands yet knowing full well what his administration was doing behind the scenes, well, it leaves a particularly nasty taste in my mouth. And one I shall remember the next time I'm asked to vote.

But hey, that's just my sycophantic slant on things.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

According to the Right Wing paper it appeared in, so what did they sell off exactly?

They completed the signing of contracts, they are involved in the signing of countless contracts durung every Parliament....like EVERY government.

Just because a government is changing it doesn't mean that everything stops during an election and the adoption of a nre government.

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By *aintmikeMan
over a year ago

glasgow

does anyone really believe the British gov, which ever party,s in,, can they bring this country back to life,, i think whoever's in, has a big,big problem,, the infrastructure of society is a big problem,, the roads, rail, we need to start again and rebuild from the inside

jobs and training for the young of this country are paramount,,then the crime rate my fall,, and respect my rise.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

[Removed by poster at 16/05/10 22:03:16]

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

You can train the young up as much as you like, you need jobs to put them in.

Anyone would think that Youth training and education had ceased to exist for the last thirteen years the way some people go on....

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside


"Governments always sign off on contracts they have agreed leading up to an election, nothing new in this.

Governments must deal with thousands of contracts every year, so why is it hard to believe that there would have been contracts that needed to be signed off in the final days of the last government?

Don't you think that there's something sinister about an outgoing administration deliberately 'having a firesale' on their way out in order to leave the incoming government a total mess to clear up? Is this looking out for the country? Looking out for us?

I know they all do it, but with it still being so fresh in my mind watching Brown up there saying that the economy was safe in his hands yet knowing full well what his administration was doing behind the scenes, well, it leaves a particularly nasty taste in my mouth. And one I shall remember the next time I'm asked to vote.

But hey, that's just my sycophantic slant on things."

It's more sinister that the "stories" start to get released just after the new Government take over but it does get some people to believe them when they say they are going to do things better.

All politicians, no matter what Party they represent, are the same, out for the power to be able to tell us all what we can or more often can't do!

Just my tuppence worth!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Governments always sign off on contracts they have agreed leading up to an election, nothing new in this.

Governments must deal with thousands of contracts every year, so why is it hard to believe that there would have been contracts that needed to be signed off in the final days of the last government?

Don't you think that there's something sinister about an outgoing administration deliberately 'having a firesale' on their way out in order to leave the incoming government a total mess to clear up? Is this looking out for the country? Looking out for us?

I know they all do it, but with it still being so fresh in my mind watching Brown up there saying that the economy was safe in his hands yet knowing full well what his administration was doing behind the scenes, well, it leaves a particularly nasty taste in my mouth. And one I shall remember the next time I'm asked to vote.

But hey, that's just my sycophantic slant on things."

I could scream out about your ignorance. It's not that easy to award a government contract. there are so many levels of scrutiny it needs to pass through that what would take a month in industry can take over a year in government. carry on reading your papers and considering it an education instead of researching for yourself what you want to pass comment on. all you are being is a postman for the tories.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"

This proves that Labour put party politics ahead of what's best for the country, and ex-Labour ministers are clamouring to admit it.

And you think only ONE party do that to win an election? Get real wishy...the Cameron nor other Tory MP's are saints, you just seem to have them on a pedestal.

That isn't the point I'm trying to make - unsuccessfully it seems. We've heard much about how Thatcher screwed the country up (and some even believe that she's exacting some sort of influence STILL), and we've heard much about the good Labour have done over 13 years. All I'm trying to do is paint a more realistic picture that Labour or Tory, they're not as altruistic as they would have us believe.

I understand the comments that I'd make a good progoganda minister for the Tories etc etc .. but I'm defending my postiion as others have defended theirs. I like to think that over the past few weeks on these political threads that I've come across as someone who has an inkling about what politics is and that I can take an abstract view of all the parties and politicans.

It remains to be seen if the new government can turn things around or not, but if they don't then I'll be one of their loudest critics."

Thats the point I was making wishy....we surely ALL know that whatever party it is, they will do whatever it takes to get what they want. I am sure most of us have realistic views on every party including the one we voted for....but your first post was about what Labour had done ( or a paper had reported had done) and how you are glad you hadn't voted for them ( I very much doubt you would have considered them to be honest)so it wasn't offering an opinion on all parties.... hence why I thought you were being unrealistic on your post.

( PS I am not sure Thatcher could be of any use to anyone in politics with her illness)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I could scream out about your ignorance. It's not that easy to award a government contract. there are so many levels of scrutiny it needs to pass through that what would take a month in industry can take over a year in government. carry on reading your papers and considering it an education instead of researching for yourself what you want to pass comment on. all you are being is a postman for the tories. "

Yes, I know, it's been pointed out already that I'm just a stupid, ignorant, foolish, uneducated Tory sycophant who doesn't understand a goddam thing.

So I'll leave you guys to your forums altogether.

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By *exeteraWoman
over a year ago

Bridgend


"does anyone really believe the British gov, which ever party,s in,, can they bring this country back to life,, i think whoever's in, has a big,big problem,, the infrastructure of society is a big problem,, the roads, rail, we need to start again and rebuild from the inside

jobs and training for the young of this country are paramount,,then the crime rate my fall,, and respect my rise. "

The young are more likely to be a victim of crime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"does anyone really believe the British gov, which ever party,s in,, can they bring this country back to life,, i think whoever's in, has a big,big problem,, the infrastructure of society is a big problem,, the roads, rail, we need to start again and rebuild from the inside

jobs and training for the young of this country are paramount,,then the crime rate my fall,, and respect my rise. "

Perfect! Someone got it! It gives jobs, it updates the infrastructure, it's exactly what happened after WW2, "Homes for Heroes" were built by those very same heroes, meaning that their newly emancipated wives - "womanning" the factories whilst the heroes were needed elsewhere - could continue to work whilst men also did! The golden age when like your Nan said, you could leave your back door open! We need to have confidence in this country, build it to be as good as it could be and when it's finished, not sell the fooker off like Maggie did, own collectively it as a privilege with pride!

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By *b430Man
over a year ago

Tayside


"I could scream out about your ignorance. It's not that easy to award a government contract. there are so many levels of scrutiny it needs to pass through that what would take a month in industry can take over a year in government. carry on reading your papers and considering it an education instead of researching for yourself what you want to pass comment on. all you are being is a postman for the tories.

Yes, I know, it's been pointed out already that I'm just a stupid, ignorant, foolish, uneducated Tory sycophant who doesn't understand a goddam thing.

So I'll leave you guys to your forums altogether."

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions whether or not anyone else believes in them, that's what debates are all about!

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

[Removed by poster at 16/05/10 22:24:47]

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Just looked at the Times article and it almost beggars belief, I always thought the Times had serious journalists on board....

You would think by reading it that Labour had commissioned the building of £420 million worth of new schools in the space of a few days, these schools take years to plan. I know this because I have personally been involved in the process of a new Primary School building over the last few years.

From the need for a new school being established funding needs to be applied for through the LEA to central government.....One Year

What follows is an enquiry at Ministerial level in the Education Department, in the case of our Primary School this took over Three years.

Then the building goes to funding, this took a further Two years, at that point a firm committment to the purchase of building land, then architect tenders went out...another Year.

Then first plans went to the local Planning department, certain things needed signing off by the Department of the Enviroment.....another Year and a bit.

Final Plans cane next and the detailed costings were resubmitted to the Treasury via the LEA and the Department of Education.....Another Year.

We first submitted our request for a new Primary School in February 1999....the contract was signed off by the Government in late 2007.....the first foundations finally dug in November 2008.

So lets not make out these things are secretly planned and signed off in a few weeks or even months!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

politics is all about spin now, all spin no substance!! between leaks and moles and god knows what all at the end of the day we only get told what the media chooses to tell us, and what we choose to believe! xx

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By *exeteraWoman
over a year ago

Bridgend


"politics is all about spin now, all spin no substance!! between leaks and moles and god knows what all at the end of the day we only get told what the media chooses to tell us, and what we choose to believe! xx"

I agree but unfortunately lots of people believe word for word what the papers write and even more do not understand the machinations of government.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

news of the world as described by my dear mother......its aw tits, tories and shite lol!! and she is just your average wee wumman! xx

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By *aintmikeMan
over a year ago

glasgow


"news of the world as described by my dear mother......its aw tits, tories and shite lol!! and she is just your average wee wumman! xx"

ha,,very good ,,i agree with your mom..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just looked at the Times article and it almost beggars belief, I always thought the Times had serious journalists on board....

You would think by reading it that Labour had commissioned the building of £420 million worth of new schools in the space of a few days, these schools take years to plan. I know this because I have personally been involved in the process of a new Primary School building over the last few years.

From the need for a new school being established funding needs to be applied for through the LEA to central government.....One Year

What follows is an enquiry at Ministerial level in the Education Department, in the case of our Primary School this took over Three years.

Then the building goes to funding, this took a further Two years, at that point a firm committment to the purchase of building land, then architect tenders went out...another Year.

Then first plans went to the local Planning department, certain things needed signing off by the Department of the Enviroment.....another Year and a bit.

Final Plans cane next and the detailed costings were resubmitted to the Treasury via the LEA and the Department of Education.....Another Year.

We first submitted our request for a new Primary School in February 1999....the contract was signed off by the Government in late 2007.....the first foundations finally dug in November 2008.

So lets not make out these things are secretly planned and signed off in a few weeks or even months!!!!!

"

Thank you, of course they do; and if a school is needed are we really going to criticise that it's signed off rather than risk it being cut or put on hold? Do you remember walking into schools and having to take care not to trip over the buckets that were collecting rainwater in the 1990s? Or hospital where ward after ward was closed cos the plumbing didn't work or worse, giving birth, going to the bathroom to find it smeared in blood cos there weren't enough cleaners and auxilliaries to ensure it was clean? Jeez, we were so lucky MRSA hadn't arrived then!

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By *obletonMan
over a year ago

A Home Among The Woodland Creatures

its funny how short people's memories are.

or perhaps selective would be a better word.

We all of course recall(but some clearly choose to ignore) the years between that morning in 1992 when the Tories woke up blinking in surprise at the fact that they had somehow managed to hang on to just enough seats to stay in power and the day when we decided we'd finally had enough in 1997?

You know, those intervening years when the Tories decided they really did want to even bother to make a facade of decent governance and decided instead to spend 5 years feathering their own nests to soften the inevitable fall they saw coming in 5 years time?

In light of that perspective Labour's behaviour just seems like busines as usual in politics

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