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We want David Moyes

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By *uckyinlust OP   Man
over a year ago

manchester

He is doing a great job and should not be sacked .............

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I heard Liverpool gave him a nice incentive to take the job

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By *ibbyhunterCouple
over a year ago

keighley

rumour going round he's gone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"rumour going round he's gone. "

Lots of rumours and paper talk about him being close to losing his job. Ask Google.

As an Evertonian I would just like to say....well done Agent Moyes, your work there is done!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

still think it would be the wrong move to get rid, but im begginning to be in the minority now, and tbh even im losing faith in him.

he changes the tea mfor no reason (why make 6 changes 11 days after beating newcastle 4-0?)

but who am i?

im just a punter with no idea about footy.

cmon the albion.

we can turn citeh over tonight

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hope he stays he has been great this season and can't see it being any different next season

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He is doing a great job and should not be sacked ............. "

He smiles nice even when loosing they should keep him at least 5 years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He is doing a great job and should not be sacked .............

He smiles nice even when loosing they should keep him at least 5 years. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He is doing a great job and should not be sacked .............

He smiles nice even when loosing they should keep him at least 5 years. "

Keep him because he smiles? He's tactially inept, and has used a different team in all 51 games this season!

He managed my team for 11 dour years, and you're welcome to him!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"rumour going round he's gone. "

sky sports are saying theirs sources say he could be sacked in the next 24 hrs....

I think he should stay.. he is clearly a football genius....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mirror are leading with the stories but there are so many journos running it that it must have came from a very reliable source. ie: the owners. Being beaten by his old team really hasn't done his job prospects any good

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The rumour is if he doesn't beat Norwich next week convincingly he's gone. I hope he wins

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

the fact that most of the fans of other clubs want him to stay in charge probably tells you all you really need to know.....

maybe man u fans can start speculating on who they would want to replace him.... just dont say jurgen klopp... he is the one I want to replace arsene when he decides to be "director of football"

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By *ackandkateCouple
over a year ago

Truro

I reckon they'll go back to Everton and get Martinez

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can't see Martinez going to a mid table side now he is a manger on the way up!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Can't see Martinez going to a mid table side now he is a manger on the way up!"

martinez would be my 2nd choice for arsenal after klopp..... thing is maybe managers will be more cautious this time round if united approach them....

it would be interesting if united did approach martinez... because if I were everton the manager I would then look at would be Wigan again and Uwe Rosler....

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

p.s.... the bookies have now suspended taking bets of moyes to be the next manager sacked..... read into that what you will....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Norwich will have him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I reckon they'll go back to Everton and get Martinez"

They won't 'get' Martinez even if they ask for him. No chance. I'm an Evertonian and I can assure you this will not happen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hmmmmmm

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By *ackandkateCouple
over a year ago

Truro

ESPN say senior figures at Utd have said "off record" that he's gone and that Giggsy is taking over for last three games.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am not a football fan i played rugby all my life however i watch football and understand it, whether david moyes is sacked or not there are a number of undeniable facts and they are:

1. The amazing job Brendan Rogers as done

2. The number of so called Liverpool fans now coming out of the woodwork wearing their colours which is nt a probem however i know to at least half a dozen people near me who were wearing man utd tops last season

3. Sorry Liverpool fans but Man Utd are the biggest club in britain and in the top 3 in the world with the other two being Real Madrid & Barcelona.

Dont shout at me its observations of a egg chaser on kiss ball

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"ESPN say senior figures at Utd have said "off record" that he's gone and that Giggsy is taking over for last three games."

Ryan Giggs lmfao!!!!

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By *iddyandherCouple
over a year ago

Benidorm

He's not going I have faith in him it is no good only letting them do one season he needs time it will work out.

and if it doesn't then hey ho its not the end of the world most of the big clubs have been there I believe we will rise again in time

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He's not going I have faith in him it is no good only letting them do one season he needs time it will work out.  "

I'm not manu fan but ffs give him more than one season.

But my gut feeling is fergie who endorsed moyes is on his knees praying to Busby for forgiveness....

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By *iddyandherCouple
over a year ago

Benidorm

And the back staff need to go feeling should of not gone never hasn't a clue.

Also I remember when fergie came on board and two seasons in everyone wanted him out 27 years later look what he did for the club

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

. he's gone . . .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


". he's gone . . ."

For a drink?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


". he's gone . . ."

Thank heavens for that , the most inept and useless manager ever .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm guessing he might have a clause in his contract stating he had to finish top 4, now it is mathematically impossible, the owners have started the ball rolling

Shame really, hes doing a brilliant job

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire


". he's gone . . .

For a drink?"
naw left Manchester for ever and ever. . .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm guessing he might have a clause in his contract stating he had to finish top 4, now it is mathematically impossible, the owners have started the ball rolling

Shame really, hes doing a brilliant job "

Does he have another job then , because the one he has done at United is far from brilliant

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By *U1966Man
over a year ago

Devon

He has done a brilliant job with the shit he has had to work with

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lol how is he doing a great job?

He hasn't a clue!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Lol how is he doing a great job?

He hasn't a clue!"

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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago

Carmarthenshire

Always said he was a great manager and should have gone I one of the bigger teams. Not united though as he's done exactly what I thought he would do and that is turn them into Everton

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not a manu fan but the amount of stick and shit that guy got, from fans the media and peers, made an already difficult job damn near impossible.

He's a good gaffer imo.

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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago

Carmarthenshire


"I'm not a manu fan but the amount of stick and shit that guy got, from fans the media and peers, made an already difficult job damn near impossible.

He's a good gaffer imo. "

I praised him before and as he joined united. I thought at the time of he could achieve at Everton with no money or little money all the time. Imagine what he will achieve at United when they throw millions at him. Then I saw his tactics and how much influence he has over players/the staff and the changes he has made within the club. Not to mention his post match interviews. He has no power at all or respect from people within the club and if you don't have respect from the players or anyone. What's the point in being there? If one player isn't respected they are normally shown the door. So why not the manager

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i feel the ONLY way his job can be saved, is if fergie comes out and admits he left a shitty squad and any new manager would have a thankless task.

but, as we know fergie wont admit to being wrong, so he will let moyes carry the can.

never mind.

my opinion?

if he is gone, and it seems like it, well they need a manager that will play decent footy, knows the league and has a decent reputation.

step forward Pochatino.

throw £50mill at southampton for him, lallana and shaw.

made me laugh when i heard a bloke on the radio say the next manager needs to be a winner.

someone thats won something.

well, out of the managers i can see that are available.

only 1 name jumps out.......

i now start the mcleish for united campaign lol

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Official. He's gone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

surprised it took this long tbh they have had a dreadeull season

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

roll up jurgen klopp is he wants the job....

although I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being Van Gaal or Ancelotti..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/04/14 08:50:46]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I reckon they'll go back to Everton and get Martinez

They won't 'get' Martinez even if they ask for him. No chance. I'm an Evertonian and I can assure you this will not happen."

As a fellow Blue totally agree. Bobby Brown Shoes is going nowhere for a few years yet ( and then it'll be to Barca)

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

actually... I think it was quite considerate of United to wait until 8.30am to offically sack Moyes...

This way in offices up and down the country they will have other things to discuss rather than the munday "so.. how was your easter" question!!!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

but seriously though..

how much of this is on moyes....

how much of this is on the glazers (remember the chief exec left at the same time at sir alex, and their transfer dealings were a shambles)....

how much of this is on the players....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"He is doing a great job and should not be sacked ............. "

... said no man united fan ever.. lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"but seriously though..

how much of this is on moyes....

how much of this is on the glazers (remember the chief exec left at the same time at sir alex, and their transfer dealings were a shambles)....

how much of this is on the players...."

That's always a point to be made when a manager gets sacked..or does less well than expected...

How much is it on wenger that he's team hasn't won a trophy in years?

I always felt moyes could fail because he himself had never won multiple games in a row...or had a team that went into games with a dominant, fearless mentality... He wasn't used to that sort of pressure on a weekly basis.

Maybe sacking the backroom staff wasn't the wisest idea...removed all continuity.

The transfer blunders played a part perhaps - but whose to say the new kids would have respected him more...?

Maybe the players just wanted a break from having to work so hard and moyes have them the perfect excuse - that's tongue in cheek..most if those guys are hungry winners.

Maybe, it was just a bad fit.

Being Scottish and a long serving manager wasn't enough...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not into football, more a rugby man, what i don't understand is the teams the same, how is Moyles affecting there performance on the pitch?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apparently David Moyes is going to hide in Manchester for a bit so he can avoid all the Man Utd fans.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Apparently David Moyes is going to hide in Manchester for a bit so he can avoid all the Man Utd fans."

Hahaha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not into football, more a rugby man, what i don't understand is the teams the same, how is Moyles affecting there performance on the pitch? "

Actually that's a fair point.

It's said the senior players weren't happy? What Rio, Carrick?

Where's your own performance been this season? Whether you like the manager or not you're still capable as a thinking adult of saying, actually, I'm still going to give it my best. For the fans, for my own satisfaction and for pride. I see only a few players who seem to give a crap.

Lack of coherent direction, yes Moyes is culpable. Responsible for players not being arsed to put in a shift, absolutely not.

Can't lay everything at Moyes feet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Too late

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"but seriously though..

how much of this is on moyes....

how much of this is on the glazers (remember the chief exec left at the same time at sir alex, and their transfer dealings were a shambles)....

how much of this is on the players....

That's always a point to be made when a manager gets sacked..or does less well than expected...

How much is it on wenger that he's team hasn't won a trophy in years?

I always felt moyes could fail because he himself had never won multiple games in a row...or had a team that went into games with a dominant, fearless mentality... He wasn't used to that sort of pressure on a weekly basis.

Maybe sacking the backroom staff wasn't the wisest idea...removed all continuity.

The transfer blunders played a part perhaps - but whose to say the new kids would have respected him more...?

Maybe the players just wanted a break from having to work so hard and moyes have them the perfect excuse - that's tongue in cheek..most if those guys are hungry winners.

Maybe, it was just a bad fit.

Being Scottish and a long serving manager wasn't enough... "

the funny and ironic thing is that the best person to replace moyes would have been moyes everton... the person who replaced sir alex was always going to be in a no win situation...

that make the decision to go with moyes over mourinho look ultra foolish now though.....

the problem with the glazers is the inept chief exec they brought in to replace david gill.... plus the glazers have been taking a lot of money out of united in dividends... plus they have to huge debt payment to pay as well...

interesting that you bring up wenger... a lot of fans understand that wenger didn't have a ton of money because they were paying off the emirates.... so where fans look at wenger and a lot think with the resources we have had.. he's done a good job keeping us in the champions league.....

but there are a lot of people who look at Ivan Gazidis (the chief exec) and Dick Law (head of contracts and transfer dealings) and wonder what they have done!

but yes.. this summer could be as crutial for arsenal as it is for man u

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Would be a dream come true if De Canio was in the running for manager at Utd.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"but seriously though..

how much of this is on moyes....

how much of this is on the glazers (remember the chief exec left at the same time at sir alex, and their transfer dealings were a shambles)....

how much of this is on the players....

That's always a point to be made when a manager gets sacked..or does less well than expected...

How much is it on wenger that he's team hasn't won a trophy in years?

I always felt moyes could fail because he himself had never won multiple games in a row...or had a team that went into games with a dominant, fearless mentality... He wasn't used to that sort of pressure on a weekly basis.

Maybe sacking the backroom staff wasn't the wisest idea...removed all continuity.

The transfer blunders played a part perhaps - but whose to say the new kids would have respected him more...?

Maybe the players just wanted a break from having to work so hard and moyes have them the perfect excuse - that's tongue in cheek..most if those guys are hungry winners.

Maybe, it was just a bad fit.

Being Scottish and a long serving manager wasn't enough...

the funny and ironic thing is that the best person to replace moyes would have been moyes everton... the person who replaced sir alex was always going to be in a no win situation...

that make the decision to go with moyes over mourinho look ultra foolish now though.....

the problem with the glazers is the inept chief exec they brought in to replace david gill.... plus the glazers have been taking a lot of money out of united in dividends... plus they have to huge debt payment to pay as well...

interesting that you bring up wenger... a lot of fans understand that wenger didn't have a ton of money because they were paying off the emirates.... so where fans look at wenger and a lot think with the resources we have had.. he's done a good job keeping us in the champions league.....

but there are a lot of people who look at Ivan Gazidis (the chief exec) and Dick Law (head of contracts and transfer dealings) and wonder what they have done!

but yes.. this summer could be as crutial for arsenal as it is for man u"

I certainly agree that Wenger has done great job guiding his team to the champs league without spending as much as the other 2/3 teams around them... He shoulda/coulda won a cup here or there. Even a league cup - I recall they lost to the blues in the final.

I'm hopeful they'll take 4th and with the Fa cup. The guy deserves something for his efforts.

As far as Moyes, although he probably had a part to play...he's not alone by any means. Senior players and the names you mentioned all have to shoulder some responsibility.

I can't imagine fergie would have tolerated the ineptitude of gazidis and law - Moyes perhaps didn't have the confidence to challenge that so soon into his career at OT.

Uncertain times.

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley

Always a shame when someone loses their job. Reflect on this: had Van Persie been fit, scored the goals he did last season and Rooney scored the same: very different final position. Liverpool without Suarez and Sturridge this season, mid table. Arsenal with Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshire, Oxlade Chamberlain and Ozil all season: potential champs. Man city, without Toure, Aguero, Dzeko, mid table. Chelsea with strikers: Champs, without as is the case, trophyless ( be honest, they're never winning the CL )

Moyes never stood a chance. So few players of quality around Europe , all the big clubs after them, paying over inflated prices. Transfer windows have screwed clubs and managers, particularly Moyes, with no cover or replacements when key players have been injured. Blame the board: Fergie was going to retire, an inevitability. Did they interview anyone else? No. No continuity: Gill left with Fergie, the whole backroom staff changed. No coherent transfer policy in the summer. The Glazers taking out enormous sums of money from the club at the expense of the transfer kitty ( remember they hocked the club in debt to buy it! ).

Arsenal fans, next time you shout for Arsene's head, take a look up to Old Trafford. Moyes never stood a chance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Moyes for the gooners....please

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?! "

He might do a good job....you never know

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hr will only get 3 games.He has nothing to lose really.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"Hr will only get 3 games.He has nothing to lose really."

Plus I think the other players will respect him....who knows not into football that much

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley

Phill Neville for manager wahahahahaha!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Didnt Beckham want to do management?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think the news report on the BBC have it spot on. Ferguson should take some of the blame for the poor form?!?

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville


"Didnt Beckham want to do management? "
No, he's got sense!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know "

Great players seldom make great managers.

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By *ezebelWoman
over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest


"ESPN say senior figures at Utd have said "off record" that he's gone and that Giggsy is taking over for last three games."

Jack has crystal balls! Who knew eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I feel for the chap it must be pretty humiliating for him to go at this stage as it will make no difference to the season. I can only assume its for financial reasons they did it now at this stage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?! "

he knows the club and players, i think he'll get em fighting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fergie sitting in the stands had a really negative affect.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

he knows the club and players, i think he'll get em fighting"

They don't really have anything to fight for!!

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville


"Fergie sitting in the stands had a really negative affect....."
It was a poison chalice from the get go...wonder how much its costing them to get rid?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

he knows the club and players, i think he'll get em fighting"

I don't personally, I love Giggs, he is United but to employ on that basis is often a disaster. I'd love him to buck that trend though of course.

Look at king Kenny, he was shit.

I think a massive clear-out of lazy players is needed before anyone make good again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A few thoughts:

• he was definitely not given long enough

• the press would never give him an easy time, even if he won everything Sir Alex would get the praise for the team

• Sir Alex selected him AND is director of football so still has an input

• the team is old

• history repeating itself with the team thinking they're bigger the manager. Brian Clough at Leeds.

• one for the realists....lost his job but I would accept 10 months of that salary without the severence pay. Should count his blessings.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

he knows the club and players, i think he'll get em fighting

I don't personally, I love Giggs, he is United but to employ on that basis is often a disaster. I'd love him to buck that trend though of course.

Look at king Kenny, he was shit.

I think a massive clear-out of lazy players is needed before anyone make good again."
I think you may well be right there.

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By *punkloverCouple
over a year ago

hatfield

I think it is a much bigger job mentally than he expected, Giggs is a great choice til the end of the season but God knows where they go from here ! They should have employed Mourinho , at least it would have been eventful and i doubt they would be in 7th

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By *punkloverCouple
over a year ago

hatfield


"Fergie sitting in the stands had a really negative affect.....It was a poison chalice from the get go...wonder how much its costing them to get rid?"

Not as much as keeping him and failing to qualify for champions league for the next two years. Make you right about Fergie in the stands, he never really stood a chance !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think it is a much bigger job mentally than he expected, Giggs is a great choice til the end of the season but God knows where they go from here ! They should have employed Mourinho , at least it would have been eventful and i doubt they would be in 7th"

Jesus no, don't want that clown at our ground. I'd be devastated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers."

Guardiola?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fergie sitting in the stands had a really negative affect.....It was a poison chalice from the get go...wonder how much its costing them to get rid?"

To pay off his 5 years remaining on contract....must be at least £15m

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By *punkloverCouple
over a year ago

hatfield

Here's an explosive idea, Roy Keane as manager with Eric Cantona as coach !!!! Now that would be fun to watch !

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By *punkloverCouple
over a year ago

hatfield

There would have been clauses in his contract about performance and results etc with get-out clauses for both

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers."

Giggs first decision. He's dropped himself as he's too old to play for a mid table team...

I hope Fergie gets to make the choice this time round too as his last decision has left me laughing all season...

Jet

YNWA JFT96

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

hands off our mananger we are premier league burnley fc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers.

Guardiola?"

Hence I said seldom and not never.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *punkloverCouple
over a year ago

hatfield

I think Mourinho was never in the running, he could and probably woulld have undone all the tradition of man united quite quickly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There would have been clauses in his contract about performance and results etc with get-out clauses for both"

Yes probably on gardening leave until he gets a new job..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Here's an explosive idea, Roy Keane as manager with Eric Cantona as coach !!!! Now that would be fun to watch !"

Yeah Roy Keane, what a great manager he is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"hands off our mananger we are premier league burnley fc "

Congratulations on coming back to the Prem.

Trips to turf moor....ah happy memories!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think Mourinho was never in the running, he could and probably woulld have undone all the tradition of man united quite quickly"

Tradition such as finishing near the top of the league?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers.

Guardiola?

Hence I said seldom and not never."

Cruyff?

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By *ea and SugarCouple
over a year ago

Manchester


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers.

Giggs first decision. He's dropped himself as he's too old to play for a mid table team...

I hope Fergie gets to make the choice this time round too as his last decision has left me laughing all season...

Jet

YNWA JFT96"

That's the least he can do after making you cry for the last 20 odd years

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers.

Guardiola?

Hence I said seldom and not never.

Cruyff?"

Beckenbauer?

Heynckes?

Ancellotti?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley


"hands off our mananger we are premier league burnley fc "
and ours, Nigel Pearson at Leicester ( many congratulations to all at Burnley, the two best teams got there in the end ) x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Replacing the man who replaced ferguson is a much easier task,

That's why the so called top managers stayed away

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely made up Moyes has gone, just hope he takes Felani (not sure that how its spelt) with him.

Totally wrong manager to appoint after Fergie.

Pleased to hear Giggs is to take charge til end of season.

Heres hoping next manager will have a lot more passion for the game. Never once saw Moyes ranting on the sideline when Utd were playing crap and lets face it, this season there were loads of opportunities to do that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Folk are missing a major point blame the manager much as you want but the players are paid lot more than should be and its their fault they could not score more or defend better.

i am not a footy fan in anyway shape or form but the players are the ones who do not the job they are paid for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Folk are missing a major point blame the manager much as you want but the players are paid lot more than should be and its their fault they could not score more or defend better.

i am not a footy fan in anyway shape or form but the players are the ones who do not the job they are paid for."

You are right but it is the mnagers job to bring in the right players and pick the right squad and tactics for each game.Something which he struggled with imo

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Folk are missing a major point blame the manager much as you want but the players are paid lot more than should be and its their fault they could not score more or defend better.

i am not a footy fan in anyway shape or form but the players are the ones who do not the job they are paid for."

I agree with what ur saying but a lot of the players at utd are the ones that won trophies year after year for Fergie.

Maybe they didnt agree with the appointment of Moyes?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

look as if Klopp has ruled himself out.. said this morning he is still "in love with dortmund" plus remember he signed a new 5 yr contract mid season... which means united with have to pay them shedloads to buy him out....

I think it is going to be Louis Van Gaal but I don't get the Van Gaal love.... he wins but doesn't stay at huge clubs for long as he does win, but manages to piss off players and boards at a superbly quick rate...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Always a shame when someone loses their job. Reflect on this: had Van Persie been fit, scored the goals he did last season and Rooney scored the same: very different final position. Liverpool without Suarez and Sturridge this season, mid table. Arsenal with Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshire, Oxlade Chamberlain and Ozil all season: potential champs. Man city, without Toure, Aguero, Dzeko, mid table. Chelsea with strikers: Champs, without as is the case, trophyless ( be honest, they're never winning the CL )

Moyes never stood a chance. So few players of quality around Europe , all the big clubs after them, paying over inflated prices. Transfer windows have screwed clubs and managers, particularly Moyes, with no cover or replacements when key players have been injured. Blame the board: Fergie was going to retire, an inevitability. Did they interview anyone else? No. No continuity: Gill left with Fergie, the whole backroom staff changed. No coherent transfer policy in the summer. The Glazers taking out enormous sums of money from the club at the expense of the transfer kitty ( remember they hocked the club in debt to buy it! ).

Arsenal fans, next time you shout for Arsene's head, take a look up to Old Trafford. Moyes never stood a chance.

"

But you could say that about almost any team in any season. Even simply turning your first line round to if Van Persie hadn't scored the goals he did last season, United wouldn't have won the league. If Abramovich hadn't changed his managers every 5 minutes Chelsea would possibly have won more league titles.

Chelsea don't have strikers of sufficient quality because their manager didn't buy them and it wasn't as if he didn't spend money circa in excess of £108million spent in 2 transfer windows plus 2 undisclosed fees and a free transfer on 15 players by comparison to Liverpool spending £45million on 8 players which includes 2 on loan players and a free transfer.

Arsenal have had injuries but so have other teams such as Everton and Liverpool whom have been without players such as Sturridge, Gerrard, Allen, Johnson, Sakho, Enrique, Lucas at various times throughout the season together with Suarez serving out the remainder of his ban which was the first 5 league games of the season.

It might also surprise you that Suarez has only scored 8 of Liverpools last 46 league goals so it's a long way off the mark to suggest that Liverpool are over reliant on one or 2 players only.

It's also very easy to forget that Liverpool was days away from administration back in October 2010 but under good leadership from new owners Liverpool have risen like a pheonix from the flames and now 3.5 years later, we're on the brink of being Champions with a young, vibrant exciting team who will definately get some tweaks this summer to make us even stronger.

United have failed so spectacularly this season because Fergie left behind an aging squad and while people hailed him for keeping Giggs playing and bring Scholes back out of retirement, he failed to bring sufficent high quality young players into his team and left any new manager with a very difficult task. Moyes failed because he was afraid to dismantle that old team and replace with new players in key positions but Moyes always has been a last minute buyer in the windows, I always thought that was down to EFC being short on money but perhaps not.

Whoever takes over at United, they do have a huge task and it'll be interesting to see how much money United really do have to spend in the transfer market. The press quote figures like 100 to 200 million this summer, but United do have huge debts and a lot less revenue coming in during the next 12 months and spending the money doesn't guarantee success, ask Spurs. United can certainly withstand one season out of the CL, but if they fail twice, well that'll certainly make their future a lot less certain under the current owners.

Anyway, enough about the failures, 270 minutes before #19 comes home to Anfield.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Feel a little bit of sympathy for Moyes. Football is cyclical in nature and it's not his fault that man u are on a downward cycle.

This is not the start, that happened under Fergie. The current squad won last season because there was no sustained challenge from elsewhere but now others have raised their game it is just more noticeable that man u are in decline.

It will be a long road back for Utd, if at all and the Man U faithful will just have to accept this as their new reality.

(Puts flak jacket and helmet on and crouches down defensively.... 10. 9. 8. 7...... )

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers.

Guardiola?

Hence I said seldom and not never.

Cruyff?

Beckenbauer?

Heynckes?

Ancellotti?

"

Fair enough Notice a theme, none are British. Even if you throw out 20 names they're still very much a minority, for each great there are many mediocre ones . We don't develop great managers from great players in this country.

As I said, id love Giggs to buck this trend, and in the UK it is a trend. I think the odds are against him.

Until we change the fact that players face zero responsibility for their behaviour too when it comes to performance, we're doomed. We could put the big JC there (or Klopp or any other great manager who wouldn't want the job) if they dont perform it will still be him that gets crucified.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley

There will be a queue of out of work managers applying. Van Gaal is no doubt the favourite, though short term, mind you, what's long term in this days football. Man Utd, the model of continuity for 26 years, then 3 managers in 12 months....it takes luck, a good team, organisation, a good back room staff, a big transfer kitty, a patient board, understanding fans, realistic expectations, having a project mentality rather than a quick fix.....oh and hungry players. Think Utd hadn't given that to Moyes. I do wonder how long Manu Utd will take to get back to the top table again....Liverpool post 89 springs to mind...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't really see the issue here. Surely any half decent childminder could do the job?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers.

Guardiola?

Hence I said seldom and not never.

Cruyff?

Beckenbauer?

Heynckes?

Ancellotti?

Fair enough Notice a theme, none are British. Even if you throw out 20 names they're still very much a minority, for each great there are many mediocre ones . We don't develop great managers from great players in this country.

As I said, id love Giggs to buck this trend, and in the UK it is a trend. I think the odds are against him.

Until we change the fact that players face zero responsibility for their behaviour too when it comes to performance, we're doomed. We could put the big JC there (or Klopp or any other great manager who wouldn't want the job) if they dont perform it will still be him that gets crucified."

Daglish?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There will be a queue of out of work managers applying. Van Gaal is no doubt the favourite, though short term, mind you, what's long term in this days football. Man Utd, the model of continuity for 26 years, then 3 managers in 12 months....it takes luck, a good team, organisation, a good back room staff, a big transfer kitty, a patient board, understanding fans, realistic expectations, having a project mentality rather than a quick fix.....oh and hungry players. Think Utd hadn't given that to Moyes. I do wonder how long Manu Utd will take to get back to the top table again....Liverpool post 89 springs to mind... "

Why post '89?, they won the league in 1990.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers.

Guardiola?

Hence I said seldom and not never.

Cruyff?

Beckenbauer?

Heynckes?

Ancellotti?

Fair enough Notice a theme, none are British. Even if you throw out 20 names they're still very much a minority, for each great there are many mediocre ones . We don't develop great managers from great players in this country.

As I said, id love Giggs to buck this trend, and in the UK it is a trend. I think the odds are against him.

Until we change the fact that players face zero responsibility for their behaviour too when it comes to performance, we're doomed. We could put the big JC there (or Klopp or any other great manager who wouldn't want the job) if they dont perform it will still be him that gets crucified.

Daglish?"

Yeah that worked out peachy in 2011. Liverpools saviour? Oh yeah, sacked after 12 months.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One thing is certain , the players this season have been as bad as the manager .

It's gonna take a hard man to knock them back into the winning mentality . Especially Rooney who has been awful this season .

So although Keane has yet to prove himself , he may be a possible option .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not a utd fan but I'm gutted for Moyes.

It's odd, but I am a bit gutted for him.

Apparently he walks away with circa £4M.

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley


"Always a shame when someone loses their job. Reflect on this: had Van Persie been fit, scored the goals he did last season and Rooney scored the same: very different final position. Liverpool without Suarez and Sturridge this season, mid table. Arsenal with Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshire, Oxlade Chamberlain and Ozil all season: potential champs. Man city, without Toure, Aguero, Dzeko, mid table. Chelsea with strikers: Champs, without as is the case, trophyless ( be honest, they're never winning the CL )

Moyes never stood a chance. So few players of quality around Europe , all the big clubs after them, paying over inflated prices. Transfer windows have screwed clubs and managers, particularly Moyes, with no cover or replacements when key players have been injured. Blame the board: Fergie was going to retire, an inevitability. Did they interview anyone else? No. No continuity: Gill left with Fergie, the whole backroom staff changed. No coherent transfer policy in the summer. The Glazers taking out enormous sums of money from the club at the expense of the transfer kitty ( remember they hocked the club in debt to buy it! ).

Arsenal fans, next time you shout for Arsene's head, take a look up to Old Trafford. Moyes never stood a chance.

But you could say that about almost any team in any season. Even simply turning your first line round to if Van Persie hadn't scored the goals he did last season, United wouldn't have won the league. If Abramovich hadn't changed his managers every 5 minutes Chelsea would possibly have won more league titles.

Chelsea don't have strikers of sufficient quality because their manager didn't buy them and it wasn't as if he didn't spend money circa in excess of £108million spent in 2 transfer windows plus 2 undisclosed fees and a free transfer on 15 players by comparison to Liverpool spending £45million on 8 players which includes 2 on loan players and a free transfer.

Arsenal have had injuries but so have other teams such as Everton and Liverpool whom have been without players such as Sturridge, Gerrard, Allen, Johnson, Sakho, Enrique, Lucas at various times throughout the season together with Suarez serving out the remainder of his ban which was the first 5 league games of the season.

It might also surprise you that Suarez has only scored 8 of Liverpools last 46 league goals so it's a long way off the mark to suggest that Liverpool are over reliant on one or 2 players only.

It's also very easy to forget that Liverpool was days away from administration back in October 2010 but under good leadership from new owners Liverpool have risen like a pheonix from the flames and now 3.5 years later, we're on the brink of being Champions with a young, vibrant exciting team who will definately get some tweaks this summer to make us even stronger.

United have failed so spectacularly this season because Fergie left behind an aging squad and while people hailed him for keeping Giggs playing and bring Scholes back out of retirement, he failed to bring sufficent high quality young players into his team and left any new manager with a very difficult task. Moyes failed because he was afraid to dismantle that old team and replace with new players in key positions but Moyes always has been a last minute buyer in the windows, I always thought that was down to EFC being short on money but perhaps not.

Whoever takes over at United, they do have a huge task and it'll be interesting to see how much money United really do have to spend in the transfer market. The press quote figures like 100 to 200 million this summer, but United do have huge debts and a lot less revenue coming in during the next 12 months and spending the money doesn't guarantee success, ask Spurs. United can certainly withstand one season out of the CL, but if they fail twice, well that'll certainly make their future a lot less certain under the current owners.

Anyway, enough about the failures, 270 minutes before #19 comes home to Anfield."
All the points you raised were the points I made. It was a statement. One team has to win the Prem ( I support a team who have secured our place in the Prem and it's not Burnley ). I hope it's Liverpool, my eldest supports them and they have been the best team this year. Over a season, the goals of the two S's will be the difference and the reason ( not the whole reason ) that you win the league. Same as RVP was last year. That's why teams at the top need a big contribution from a striker or strikers. Had MU had a fit RVP and Rooney ( all year ), like last year, United would have finished higher, fact.

Here's a thought: if Chelsea fail to win the CL, Liverpool win the Prem, Arsenal fail to win the FA cup and Man City have only won the Capital one cup.....what is the criteria of success for the top 4? Only three domestic trophies to go for, CL football is great money wise, but remember only one team can win it, in Europe. Fans expectations need to be realistic. I'd settle for us finishing one place above the relegation zone next year, now that's success!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers.

Guardiola?

Hence I said seldom and not never.

Cruyff?

Beckenbauer?

Heynckes?

Ancellotti?

Fair enough Notice a theme, none are British. Even if you throw out 20 names they're still very much a minority, for each great there are many mediocre ones . We don't develop great managers from great players in this country.

As I said, id love Giggs to buck this trend, and in the UK it is a trend. I think the odds are against him.

Until we change the fact that players face zero responsibility for their behaviour too when it comes to performance, we're doomed. We could put the big JC there (or Klopp or any other great manager who wouldn't want the job) if they dont perform it will still be him that gets crucified.

Daglish?

Yeah that worked out peachy in 2011. Liverpools saviour? Oh yeah, sacked after 12 months."

He is british and has a great record as a manager. You never said that he had to have been continuously successful and indeed only stepped in as an interim manager to help his club out.... Sounds a little like the current situation at old Trafford right now, with the exception that Giggs has never won the league, or the double or the league at another club, as a manager, unlike Daglish. So I stand by my saying Daglish has a 'great' record as a manager.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


" Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers.

Guardiola?

Hence I said seldom and not never.

Cruyff?

Beckenbauer?

Heynckes?

Ancellotti?

Fair enough Notice a theme, none are British. Even if you throw out 20 names they're still very much a minority, for each great there are many mediocre ones . We don't develop great managers from great players in this country.

As I said, id love Giggs to buck this trend, and in the UK it is a trend. I think the odds are against him.

Until we change the fact that players face zero responsibility for their behaviour too when it comes to performance, we're doomed. We could put the big JC there (or Klopp or any other great manager who wouldn't want the job) if they dont perform it will still be him that gets crucified."

re: good british players becoming good managers....

its an interesting case... and I think money has a lot to do with it! In my opinion, because of how much PL players earn, they don't have to go into management.... or go into getting their coaching badges... they know they are already set...

plus a ton of the really good players looks to getting into the media after playing as opposed to getting into coaching... a lot less hassle......

would Man U getting Van Gaal scare me as an arsenal fan.... not really.... he is good at rebuilding, and good with youth development... but I don't think he would be at the club long enough to finish the project as he would piss someone off higher up!

this is a classic quote by then Bayern GM Uli Hoeness:

" Van Gaal's problem is not that he's god, but he's god's very own father. Louis was already there before the world even existed!"

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley


" Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers.

Guardiola?

Hence I said seldom and not never.

Cruyff?

Beckenbauer?

Heynckes?

Ancellotti?

Fair enough Notice a theme, none are British. Even if you throw out 20 names they're still very much a minority, for each great there are many mediocre ones . We don't develop great managers from great players in this country.

As I said, id love Giggs to buck this trend, and in the UK it is a trend. I think the odds are against him.

Until we change the fact that players face zero responsibility for their behaviour too when it comes to performance, we're doomed. We could put the big JC there (or Klopp or any other great manager who wouldn't want the job) if they dont perform it will still be him that gets crucified.

re: good british players becoming good managers....

its an interesting case... and I think money has a lot to do with it! In my opinion, because of how much PL players earn, they don't have to go into management.... or go into getting their coaching badges... they know they are already set...

plus a ton of the really good players looks to getting into the media after playing as opposed to getting into coaching... a lot less hassle......

would Man U getting Van Gaal scare me as an arsenal fan.... not really.... he is good at rebuilding, and good with youth development... but I don't think he would be at the club long enough to finish the project as he would piss someone off higher up!

this is a classic quote by then Bayern GM Uli Hoeness:

" Van Gaal's problem is not that he's god, but he's god's very own father. Louis was already there before the world even existed!""
fom his prison cell ( Uli Hoeness, not LVG lol )

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ea and SugarCouple
over a year ago

Manchester


" Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers.

Guardiola?

Hence I said seldom and not never.

Cruyff?

Beckenbauer?

Heynckes?

Ancellotti?

Fair enough Notice a theme, none are British. Even if you throw out 20 names they're still very much a minority, for each great there are many mediocre ones . We don't develop great managers from great players in this country.

As I said, id love Giggs to buck this trend, and in the UK it is a trend. I think the odds are against him.

Until we change the fact that players face zero responsibility for their behaviour too when it comes to performance, we're doomed. We could put the big JC there (or Klopp or any other great manager who wouldn't want the job) if they dont perform it will still be him that gets crucified.

Daglish?

Yeah that worked out peachy in 2011. Liverpools saviour? Oh yeah, sacked after 12 months."

I thought he left Liverpool on a downward spiral in the 80s, just as ferguson I'd with united

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

Here's a thought: if Chelsea fail to win the CL, Liverpool win the Prem, Arsenal fail to win the FA cup and Man City have only won the Capital one cup.....what is the criteria of success for the top 4? Only three domestic trophies to go for, CL football is great money wise, but remember only one team can win it, in Europe. Fans expectations need to be realistic. I'd settle for us finishing one place above the relegation zone next year, now that's success!"

I think with the added money that champions league brings... (estimated at 30-50 million pound per year) it gives those teams at the top added advantages.. in terms of transfer spending, and overall revenue (remember UEFA "fair play" rules will mean in effect you can only spend what you have coming in)

but you are right.... if you consider spurs (okay, lets not laugh too much) for the purposes of this conversation as big spending.... then 6 into 4 CL spots each season is not going to go!

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Ryan Giggs as interim Manager?!

He might do a good job....you never know

Great players seldom make great managers.

Guardiola?

Hence I said seldom and not never.

Cruyff?

Beckenbauer?

Heynckes?

Ancellotti?

Fair enough Notice a theme, none are British. Even if you throw out 20 names they're still very much a minority, for each great there are many mediocre ones . We don't develop great managers from great players in this country.

As I said, id love Giggs to buck this trend, and in the UK it is a trend. I think the odds are against him.

Until we change the fact that players face zero responsibility for their behaviour too when it comes to performance, we're doomed. We could put the big JC there (or Klopp or any other great manager who wouldn't want the job) if they dont perform it will still be him that gets crucified.

Daglish?

Yeah that worked out peachy in 2011. Liverpools saviour? Oh yeah, sacked after 12 months.

I thought he left Liverpool on a downward spiral in the 80s, just as ferguson I'd with united"

That is exactly right, he did leave Liverpool as they started their decline, just like ferguson has with utd.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Breaking News!

Moyes has been offered a job by UKIP.

Well he was brilliant at getting Man Utd out of Europe.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Breaking News!

Moyes has been offered a job by UKIP.

Well he was brilliant at getting Man Utd out of Europe. "

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I think Sam Allardyce is the best person to be the next Man United manager..

Signed

Sam Allardyce.....

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley


"

Here's a thought: if Chelsea fail to win the CL, Liverpool win the Prem, Arsenal fail to win the FA cup and Man City have only won the Capital one cup.....what is the criteria of success for the top 4? Only three domestic trophies to go for, CL football is great money wise, but remember only one team can win it, in Europe. Fans expectations need to be realistic. I'd settle for us finishing one place above the relegation zone next year, now that's success!

I think with the added money that champions league brings... (estimated at 30-50 million pound per year) it gives those teams at the top added advantages.. in terms of transfer spending, and overall revenue (remember UEFA "fair play" rules will mean in effect you can only spend what you have coming in)

but you are right.... if you consider spurs (okay, lets not laugh too much) for the purposes of this conversation as big spending.... then 6 into 4 CL spots each season is not going to go! "
Strangely enough i'd never considered Spurs! The money CL qualification gives clubs the extra money, supposedly to attract the better players....or does it? It just means the same top clubs in Europe all chase the same players with inflated prices, circulating the CL money on the whole around the same clubs. The CL is an obsession for the top 4,5, perhaps 6 ( Tottenham have been obsessed...), whilst will never be something us mere mortals aspire to. It is expectation. I can no more see my team being in the Champions league than Elvis being on the moon. That said, seeing my team compete against the top 4 teams and their players does appeal. There is already and it's coming a European elite league, it just hasn't been ratified yet!

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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago

Carmarthenshire


"One thing is certain , the players this season have been as bad as the manager .

It's gonna take a hard man to knock them back into the winning mentality . Especially Rooney who has been awful this season .

So although Keane has yet to prove himself , he may be a possible option . "

It's very hard to give players a wining mentality when you get rid of the people who train them how to win matches. So I feel whoever they bring in will have the winning mentality. Although it will take time before we start winning things again, but I do think we will finish higher next year and give a better account of ourselves

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"One thing is certain , the players this season have been as bad as the manager .

It's gonna take a hard man to knock them back into the winning mentality . Especially Rooney who has been awful this season .

So although Keane has yet to prove himself , he may be a possible option .

It's very hard to give players a wining mentality when you get rid of the people who train them how to win matches. So I feel whoever they bring in will have the winning mentality. Although it will take time before we start winning things again, but I do think we will finish higher next year and give a better account of ourselves "

Doubt it, things will only get worse

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By *punkloverCouple
over a year ago

hatfield

Just goes to show how important Fergie actually was !

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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago

Carmarthenshire


"Just goes to show how important Fergie actually was !"

Sources claim he's not going to have any say in choosing the next manager.

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By *awkeye and HotlipsCouple
over a year ago

Takeley


"Just goes to show how important Fergie actually was !

Sources claim he's not going to have any say in choosing the next manager."
After all he made a great recommendation with Moyes!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't really see the issue here. Surely any half decent childminder could do the job? "

that is a very good post and spot on.

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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago

Carmarthenshire


"Just goes to show how important Fergie actually was !

Sources claim he's not going to have any say in choosing the next manager. After all he made a great recommendation with Moyes! "

I'm starting to think that he was trying to prove how good he actually was. By getting a poor manager in to manage the same players that he won the title with. Only they has obviously aged a year. He remains a great, but he should just keep out of it now. He's done wonders for the club. Now he just has to retire properly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A few thoughts:

• he was definitely not given long enough

• the press would never give him an easy time, even if he won everything Sir Alex would get the praise for the team

• Sir Alex selected him AND is director of football so still has an input

• the team is old

• history repeating itself with the team thinking they're bigger the manager. Brian Clough at Leeds.

• one for the realists....lost his job but I would accept 10 months of that salary without the severence pay. Should count his blessings."

apart from the leeds reference, this is th emost sensible post i have read, almost lol

he was on a hiding to nothing.

if he had won/competed for the title, gone further in the cups, fergie would have gotten praised for leaving a great legacy.

however, because he hasnt, i hate hearing this quote as well because its nonsense, he has taken a team that won the title by 11 points, and made them average.

well, on the same token, most people suggest fergie was worth 15 points, so minimum, and if everything else stood still, they would have been 4 points behind citeh this year.

lets look in reality

spending over the last 5 years, not taking into account players sold, of course.

chelsea: 118mill

arsenal: 172 mill

city: 512 mill

liverpool 270 mill

spurs 223 mill

everton 70 mill (and 23 of that was this last summer by martinez, so moyes kept everton in the top 5/6 on 47 mill)

united 230 mill

so, even though they have sent similar money, the vast majority of names on the transfer lists of the other top clubs are household names, to me anyway.

these are fergie signings from the last 5 years.

can anyone, even fans, tell me who they are and how many games they played, please:

Guillermo Varela £2,400,000

Angelo Henrique £4,000,000

Bebe £7,400,000

Mame Biram Diouf £2,000,000

and they overpaid massivly for players.

17 mill for young

same for jones

19 for de gea

so, for all the success fergie brought, he was a terrible business man and didnt do much to leave a strong swuad.

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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago

Carmarthenshire


"A few thoughts:

• he was definitely not given long enough

• the press would never give him an easy time, even if he won everything Sir Alex would get the praise for the team

• Sir Alex selected him AND is director of football so still has an input

• the team is old

• history repeating itself with the team thinking they're bigger the manager. Brian Clough at Leeds.

• one for the realists....lost his job but I would accept 10 months of that salary without the severence pay. Should count his blessings.

apart from the leeds reference, this is th emost sensible post i have read, almost lol

he was on a hiding to nothing.

if he had won/competed for the title, gone further in the cups, fergie would have gotten praised for leaving a great legacy.

however, because he hasnt, i hate hearing this quote as well because its nonsense, he has taken a team that won the title by 11 points, and made them average.

well, on the same token, most people suggest fergie was worth 15 points, so minimum, and if everything else stood still, they would have been 4 points behind citeh this year.

lets look in reality

spending over the last 5 years, not taking into account players sold, of course.

chelsea: 118mill

arsenal: 172 mill

city: 512 mill

liverpool 270 mill

spurs 223 mill

everton 70 mill (and 23 of that was this last summer by martinez, so moyes kept everton in the top 5/6 on 47 mill)

united 230 mill

so, even though they have sent similar money, the vast majority of names on the transfer lists of the other top clubs are household names, to me anyway.

these are fergie signings from the last 5 years.

can anyone, even fans, tell me who they are and how many games they played, please:

Guillermo Varela £2,400,000

Angelo Henrique £4,000,000

Bebe £7,400,000

Mame Biram Diouf £2,000,000

and they overpaid massivly for players.

17 mill for young

same for jones

19 for de gea

so, for all the success fergie brought, he was a terrible business man and didnt do much to leave a strong swuad."

In his 27 year history at the club. He has spent over £800 million and gained £500 through selling players on. So that's about £300 million spent in his history at the club. How much have man city and Chelsea spent over the last 5 years?

I do admit those buys were terrible, but Fellini is even worse as he cost a lot more, but I think jones and de gea are very got prospects if they are managed correctly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Breaking News!

Moyes has been offered a job by UKIP.

Well he was brilliant at getting Man Utd out of Europe. "

eventhough im Man U, I'm nicking that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

In his 27 year history at the club. He has spent over £800 million and gained £500 through selling players on. So that's about £300 million spent in his history at the club. How much have man city and Chelsea spent over the last 5 years?

I do admit those buys were terrible, but Fellini is even worse as he cost a lot more, but I think jones and de gea are very got prospects if they are managed correctly. "

thats why i purposely didnt include the sales from each team, as it skews the figures somewhat.

yes, he only spent 300 mill in 20 odd years, but arsenal have made a profit in that time, so it makes it all the more worse.

yes chelsea and citeh have lost lots and lots, but they havent had to make a profit, or even come close to it.

and even then, the glaziers have probably had out what citeh or chelsea have lost in that time.

i only apportion, probably, 30% fault to moyes.

he was on a hiding to nothing, as i said

the fault is

fergie (squad, being a director, giving moyes his blessing)

gill (for leaving the same time as fergie, instead of helping moyes settle in and getting transfers)

glaziers (everything of the above, and so much more)

players (to a man, they havent tried. rooney, januzai and de gea are probably the only 2 that can come out of this season with any credit)

fans (not the ones that actually bother going, but more the ones that sit at home and piss and moan that they arent winning everything in sight, because they are united and have a god given right to win everything)

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

best thing that could happen to Manchester united would be to start winning under the stand in manager and he might get the gig full time. . .

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"

yes, he only spent 300 mill in 20 odd years, but arsenal have made a profit in that time, so it makes it all the more worse.

"

ahem... and arsenal also had to pay the best part of 300 million to pay for a stadium.....

so not the best comparison.......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am not a football fan i played rugby all my life however i watch football and understand it, whether david moyes is sacked or not there are a number of undeniable facts and they are:

1. The amazing job Brendan Rogers as done

2. The number of so called Liverpool fans now coming out of the woodwork wearing their colours which is nt a probem however i know to at least half a dozen people near me who were wearing man utd tops last season

3. Sorry Liverpool fans but Man Utd are the biggest club in britain and in the top 3 in the world with the other two being Real Madrid & Barcelona.

Dont shout at me its observations of a egg chaser on kiss ball "

True on the last point, but clubs have a way of rising then falling. Liverpool dominated the league for over two decades then slipped, man utd will go the same way.

Liverpool was the biggest club in the world in the 80's, not so now but things change...

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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago

Carmarthenshire


"

In his 27 year history at the club. He has spent over £800 million and gained £500 through selling players on. So that's about £300 million spent in his history at the club. How much have man city and Chelsea spent over the last 5 years?

I do admit those buys were terrible, but Fellini is even worse as he cost a lot more, but I think jones and de gea are very got prospects if they are managed correctly.

thats why i purposely didnt include the sales from each team, as it skews the figures somewhat.

yes, he only spent 300 mill in 20 odd years, but arsenal have made a profit in that time, so it makes it all the more worse.

yes chelsea and citeh have lost lots and lots, but they havent had to make a profit, or even come close to it.

and even then, the glaziers have probably had out what citeh or chelsea have lost in that time.

i only apportion, probably, 30% fault to moyes.

he was on a hiding to nothing, as i said

the fault is

fergie (squad, being a director, giving moyes his blessing)

gill (for leaving the same time as fergie, instead of helping moyes settle in and getting transfers)

glaziers (everything of the above, and so much more)

players (to a man, they havent tried. rooney, januzai and de gea are probably the only 2 that can come out of this season with any credit)

fans (not the ones that actually bother going, but more the ones that sit at home and piss and moan that they arent winning everything in sight, because they are united and have a god given right to win everything)

"

Gill leaving and the backroom staff leaving were also factors in this. But Moyes got rid of the backroom staff, why I don't know. Plus every united fan was saying we should be picking Janazjai, but it never happened as "he wasn't ready" according to Moyes and as soon as he got picked. They played better, won some games. Then he said "I don't know why we didn't pick him from the start". He also said after a game about a month ago "I don't know what we have to do to win games". Now as soon as your in a bad spell in terms of results and performances and you have no proven track record. The club is in trouble.

Hopefully now the club can bring in an established record. Who has own things at the highest levels and has managed players with big egos.

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By *yphoon1Man
over a year ago

Redknapp?

OGS?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Awww, and as im reading this a text came through from Man U saying:

Buy tickets now to support Ryan Giggs and the team for the remaining games.

I suddenly feel quite sad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Awww, and as im reading this a text came through from Man U saying:

Buy tickets now to support Ryan Giggs and the team for the remaining games.

I suddenly feel quite sad."

I'm sure it's just to cover the rest of the season... don't lose hope just yet!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can Moyes come to Newcastle please? We might win the occasional match.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Awww, and as im reading this a text came through from Man U saying:

Buy tickets now to support Ryan Giggs and the team for the remaining games.

I suddenly feel quite sad.

I'm sure it's just to cover the rest of the season... don't lose hope just yet!"

No just sad in general. Sad at the ease with with which we discard people, the fact the same could happen to Giggs. Sad that the management couldn't see fit to have the dignity to leave it just one day before thinking, right let's capitalise.Life in a microcosm.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Awww, and as im reading this a text came through from Man U saying:

Buy tickets now to support Ryan Giggs and the team for the remaining games.

I suddenly feel quite sad.

I'm sure it's just to cover the rest of the season... don't lose hope just yet!

No just sad in general. Sad at the ease with with which we discard people, the fact the same could happen to Giggs. Sad that the management couldn't see fit to have the dignity to leave it just one day before thinking, right let's capitalise.Life in a microcosm."

That's the life they chose. He'll get over it. Man Utd will move on. People will moan about the next privilege they think they're entitled to. The world will continue to spin. The ruling class will continue to distract their herd. Dignity, honour and respect will continue to lose their value.

I'm a bit sad too, now.

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By *ackandkateCouple
over a year ago

Truro

Don't pity him. He'll walked away with £5m in his arse pocket.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Don't pity him. He'll walked away with £5m in his arse pocket."

I suppose I'm as much sad for the sport than any one person. I'm a sentimental old fool though.

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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago

Carmarthenshire


"Don't pity him. He'll walked away with £5m in his arse pocket."

I never understand this. Surely in a managers contract it will state they are allowed to be sacked if the minimum target isn't reached. 7th in the league by Uniteds standards isn't on. I agree no team has the right to win it. You have to work hard, have that bit of luck, etc. Going by the teams in the league. They should have finished 4th or 5th. They are capable at beating teams in the league with the players they have, but for ever reason the mentality or motivation wasn't there and that is down to the manager. So in my opinion he had to go. Hopefully the manager that comes in can get his business done quickly and not panic buy players like Moyes did.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Awww, and as im reading this a text came through from Man U saying:

Buy tickets now to support Ryan Giggs and the team for the remaining games.

I suddenly feel quite sad.

I'm sure it's just to cover the rest of the season... don't lose hope just yet!

No just sad in general. Sad at the ease with with which we discard people, the fact the same could happen to Giggs. Sad that the management couldn't see fit to have the dignity to leave it just one day before thinking, right let's capitalise.Life in a microcosm."

Well I have to say that the only thing I am sad about is the fact that it took so long to get shot of him .

Here I sit with the champions league about to start .....

And next season we may not even be in the Europa league , and he gets £5,000,000 for effectively turning us into a laughing stock .

So no sadness here , just relief

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By *picyrodMan
over a year ago

leicestershire

Get him on fab lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Awww, and as im reading this a text came through from Man U saying:

Buy tickets now to support Ryan Giggs and the team for the remaining games.

I suddenly feel quite sad.

I'm sure it's just to cover the rest of the season... don't lose hope just yet!

No just sad in general. Sad at the ease with with which we discard people, the fact the same could happen to Giggs. Sad that the management couldn't see fit to have the dignity to leave it just one day before thinking, right let's capitalise.Life in a microcosm.

Well I have to say that the only thing I am sad about is the fact that it took so long to get shot of him .

Here I sit with the champions league about to start .....

And next season we may not even be in the Europa league , and he gets £5,000,000 for effectively turning us into a laughing stock .

So no sadness here , just relief

"

It could be a good few seasons before they are back in the champions league aswell they need a massive overhaul of players.

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By *ackandkateCouple
over a year ago

Truro


"Get him on fab lol "

Who? Golum?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Three years after fergie took over there the team finished 11th and fans clamoured for his sacking. One made a banner saying that three years of crap was enough and time to go fergie.

Moyes got ten months and not much money

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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago

Carmarthenshire


"Three years after fergie took over there the team finished 11th and fans clamoured for his sacking. One made a banner saying that three years of crap was enough and time to go fergie.

Moyes got ten months and not much money "

He joined a team average side at the time who weren't champions. Moyes had plenty of money. Nobody wanted to join united as when Fergie and fill left. United had no influence on players.

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By *ortheastcoupleukCouple
over a year ago

easington were the sun dont shine


"Here's an explosive idea, Roy Keane as manager with Eric Cantona as coach !!!! Now that would be fun to watch !"
first time roy heard the word no he wad be off like a shot

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Get him on fab lol "
don't you think his been fucked enough this season

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"Always a shame when someone loses their job. Reflect on this: had Van Persie been fit, scored the goals he did last season and Rooney scored the same: very different final position. Liverpool without Suarez and Sturridge this season, mid table. Arsenal with Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshire, Oxlade Chamberlain and Ozil all season: potential champs. Man city, without Toure, Aguero, Dzeko, mid table. Chelsea with strikers: Champs, without as is the case, trophyless ( be honest, they're never winning the CL )"

bit like saying if my Aunt had a set of bollocks then she would be my Uncle..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Awww, and as im reading this a text came through from Man U saying:

Buy tickets now to support Ryan Giggs and the team for the remaining games.

I suddenly feel quite sad.

I'm sure it's just to cover the rest of the season... don't lose hope just yet!

No just sad in general. Sad at the ease with with which we discard people, the fact the same could happen to Giggs. Sad that the management couldn't see fit to have the dignity to leave it just one day before thinking, right let's capitalise.Life in a microcosm.

Well I have to say that the only thing I am sad about is the fact that it took so long to get shot of him .

Here I sit with the champions league about to start .....

And next season we may not even be in the Europa league , and he gets £5,000,000 for effectively turning us into a laughing stock .

So no sadness here , just relief

"

I just don't see it that way at all but as I said, I'm a sentimental old fool and I don't expect anything, I just hope.

You get what you deserve I think and where we are comes down to a manager either not really having a clear idea of where he's going or isn't given room and time to show it, a team of players who (with maybe 3 exceptions) don't give a fuck about putting in a shift and fans and media who scream OUT as soon as results start to go bad.

Can't say I'm relieved, more embarrassed that we'll probably just become another revolving door club.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really hope we don't become a revolving door club .

The interesting statistic this season is that in 51 games we have had 51 different starting line ups .

Incredible but true , and a perfect example of why Moyes was clueless .

I would question that 3 players have been up for it this season , I really can't say that one has shown true grit and determination . Least of all Rooney who has been a disgrace , and that hurts to say as he is capable of so much more .

It's a tragedy seeing the club in such disarray , somewhat akin to Wilf McGuiness and Frank O Farrell , and our eventual demise to the second division .

And way back then , our best players behaved disgracefully too , so a lesson should be learned from that this time round .

As hard as it is to say , Fergie should take a back seat for a while , give the new boss a chance .

Bring back some of the back room team , and let the current squad know in no uncertain terms that none of them are irreplaceable ( especially Rooney , Carrick , Jones , ) and get rid of the dross like Fellani , Cleverley , Young and Nani . Others like:-

Kagawa , Wellbeck , Henandez , Valencia , Rafael , Smalling , De Gea , Mata , Januzai all deserve a chance to prove themselves .

I haven't mentioned van Persie because he is even more disgraceful than Rooney and I believe the truth will prevail regarding him now Moyes has gone .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Three years after fergie took over there the team finished 11th and fans clamoured for his sacking. One made a banner saying that three years of crap was enough and time to go fergie.

Moyes got ten months and not much money "

He spent £60m! Think you will find that is more than all the clubs above Utd this season and don't forget he was adding to a squad that had won the league at a canter. Right decision to let him go, nice bloke but out of his depth.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire


"Can Moyes come to Newcastle please? We might win the occasional match."
that will probably happen . .

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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago

Carmarthenshire


"I really hope we don't become a revolving door club .

The interesting statistic this season is that in 51 games we have had 51 different starting line ups .

Incredible but true , and a perfect example of why Moyes was clueless .

I would question that 3 players have been up for it this season , I really can't say that one has shown true grit and determination . Least of all Rooney who has been a disgrace , and that hurts to say as he is capable of so much more .

It's a tragedy seeing the club in such disarray , somewhat akin to Wilf McGuiness and Frank O Farrell , and our eventual demise to the second division .

And way back then , our best players behaved disgracefully too , so a lesson should be learned from that this time round .

As hard as it is to say , Fergie should take a back seat for a while , give the new boss a chance .

Bring back some of the back room team , and let the current squad know in no uncertain terms that none of them are irreplaceable ( especially Rooney , Carrick , Jones , ) and get rid of the dross like Fellani , Cleverley , Young and Nani . Others like:-

Kagawa , Wellbeck , Henandez , Valencia , Rafael , Smalling , De Gea , Mata , Januzai all deserve a chance to prove themselves .

I haven't mentioned van Persie because he is even more disgraceful than Rooney and I believe the truth will prevail regarding him now Moyes has gone .

"

Mata has played well for United when played in his correct position, so has Janazaj, de gea and Hernandez have already proven they are good players and are worth their worth at the club. However no other player has. Some players need a chance and some need to be shown the door. Hopefully the new manager will know this as too many exits will mean more problems.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Giggs might be a utd legend but saying players will respect him? This is the guy that fucked his own brothers mrs. A footballer yes but a cunt of a man who should be ashamed

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By *ce WingerMan
over a year ago

P.O. Box DE1 0NQ


"The interesting statistic this season is that in 51 games we have had 51 different starting line ups ."

When Derby won the League in 1971/2 under Brian Clough, we used 16 players all season

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Giggs might be a utd legend but saying players will respect him? This is the guy that fucked his own brothers mrs. A footballer yes but a cunt of a man who should be ashamed"

I'm not sure other players give a shit who he fucks (as long as it's not their Mrs or another team mates Mrs) I think he will have the respect of younger players for his longevity, fitness and massive haul of accolades. I personally though don't think he'll necessarily make a good manager.

He's a footballer, not in the running for the papacy.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Can Moyes come to Newcastle please? We might win the occasional match. that will probably happen . ."

thats if he doesn't go to spurs first...

its all part of the "agent moyes" plan.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think its ridiculous to sack a perfectly good manager, can't HONESTLY think off a better man for the job

MCFC appreciation group

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By *hunderstruckMan
over a year ago

Northampton

True and how has the press let him off so

lightly ???

Cos it's manyoo that's why

Could be a few years before we see them back at the top of the tree ... Have a lot of rebuilding to do

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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago

Carmarthenshire


"True and how has the press let him off so

lightly ???

Cos it's manyoo that's why

Could be a few years before we see them back at the top of the tree ... Have a lot of rebuilding to do "

Next season will be in the top 4. No higher need time.

Season after we will be challenging, but won't be quiet there. So will finish 3rd. However we will be quite a bit of top spot.

In the third season. The top 3 clubs will be much closer and whoever will win it won't be by much,

In the fourth season we will win it as the wining mentality would be back.

This is going by we get the right manager and right players over the next few years. If Liverpool continue to play like they have I can see united kicking arsenal out of the top 4 and it would stay like that for year to come.

Basically my guess is 3-5 years for the league

2-4 years before we start winning trophies as I can see us winning the league or fa cup in 2+ years with the right manager that is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"True and how has the press let him off so

lightly ???

Cos it's manyoo that's why

Could be a few years before we see them back at the top of the tree ... Have a lot of rebuilding to do

Next season will be in the top 4. No higher need time.

Season after we will be challenging, but won't be quiet there. So will finish 3rd. However we will be quite a bit of top spot.

In the third season. The top 3 clubs will be much closer and whoever will win it won't be by much,

In the fourth season we will win it as the wining mentality would be back.

This is going by we get the right manager and right players over the next few years. If Liverpool continue to play like they have I can see united kicking arsenal out of the top 4 and it would stay like that for year to come.

Basically my guess is 3-5 years for the league

2-4 years before we start winning trophies as I can see us winning the league or fa cup in 2+ years with the right manager that is."

Yes right!

this is what Liverpool thought 20 yrs ago, accept it yr crap and finished

give us a shout at eastlands in about 10yrs when ur close auvoir

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago

Carmarthenshire


"True and how has the press let him off so

lightly ???

Cos it's manyoo that's why

Could be a few years before we see them back at the top of the tree ... Have a lot of rebuilding to do

Next season will be in the top 4. No higher need time.

Season after we will be challenging, but won't be quiet there. So will finish 3rd. However we will be quite a bit of top spot.

In the third season. The top 3 clubs will be much closer and whoever will win it won't be by much,

In the fourth season we will win it as the wining mentality would be back.

This is going by we get the right manager and right players over the next few years. If Liverpool continue to play like they have I can see united kicking arsenal out of the top 4 and it would stay like that for year to come.

Basically my guess is 3-5 years for the league

2-4 years before we start winning trophies as I can see us winning the league or fa cup in 2+ years with the right manager that is.

Yes right!

this is what Liverpool thought 20 yrs ago, accept it yr crap and finished

give us a shout at eastlands in about 10yrs when ur close auvoir "

Despite what people say. We have Rooney/Hernandez/van Persie/Janazjai, de gea. Those players can ruin teams in the league on their day apart from city and Chelsea maybe. Reason why United haven't done nothing is because no one else has performed and the ones mentioned didn't get picked for some reason on another. Bring some quality, established players in and with the right manager we can can cut the ridiculous gap. If the gap isn't cut next season. I will agree with you. We will slip.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"True and how has the press let him off so

lightly ???

Cos it's manyoo that's why

Could be a few years before we see them back at the top of the tree ... Have a lot of rebuilding to do

Next season will be in the top 4. No higher need time.

Season after we will be challenging, but won't be quiet there. So will finish 3rd. However we will be quite a bit of top spot.

In the third season. The top 3 clubs will be much closer and whoever will win it won't be by much,

In the fourth season we will win it as the wining mentality would be back.

This is going by we get the right manager and right players over the next few years. If Liverpool continue to play like they have I can see united kicking arsenal out of the top 4 and it would stay like that for year to come.

Basically my guess is 3-5 years for the league

2-4 years before we start winning trophies as I can see us winning the league or fa cup in 2+ years with the right manager that is.

Yes right!

this is what Liverpool thought 20 yrs ago, accept it yr crap and finished

give us a shout at eastlands in about 10yrs when ur close auvoir "

Who say's you'll be challenging for the next decade? If your owners bugger off you might be back to being a joke club again like you were until just a couple of years ago?

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

Moyes is a good manager,he was left with old players and youngsters not good enough.United will not get in Champs league next year they will sack another manager

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ohh **shots have been fired**

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By *hunderstruckMan
over a year ago

Northampton

Van Percy isn't happy ....

Hernandez is a bench warmer

And janazjai is too inexperienced

Well beck wants out too

Another manager will want to bring his own staff and players in . This will add more turmoil to the problems they have too and if they go for cavani or even try to get ronaldo back will they want to be on a smaller wage than Rooney ??

Lot of rebuilding and upsetting established players I reckon

Gonna take a lot more than 4 yrs

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"True and how has the press let him off so

lightly ???

Cos it's manyoo that's why

Could be a few years before we see them back at the top of the tree ... Have a lot of rebuilding to do

Next season will be in the top 4. No higher need time.

Season after we will be challenging, but won't be quiet there. So will finish 3rd. However we will be quite a bit of top spot.

In the third season. The top 3 clubs will be much closer and whoever will win it won't be by much,

In the fourth season we will win it as the wining mentality would be back.

This is going by we get the right manager and right players over the next few years. If Liverpool continue to play like they have I can see united kicking arsenal out of the top 4 and it would stay like that for year to come.

Basically my guess is 3-5 years for the league

2-4 years before we start winning trophies as I can see us winning the league or fa cup in 2+ years with the right manager that is.

Yes right!

this is what Liverpool thought 20 yrs ago, accept it yr crap and finished

give us a shout at eastlands in about 10yrs when ur close auvoir

Who say's you'll be challenging for the next decade? If your owners bugger off you might be back to being a joke club again like you were until just a couple of years ago?"

who spends over a billion £`s then fucks off! believe me salford fc are Finnished,you never know you may pass fc utd on your way,fc utd ar'nt they the proper united? they are in my book.RIP salford utd

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In all seriousness I given that I just read that Welbeck wants out too I can t help but think that, utd giving Rooney £300K a week has monumentally pissed off a few in the squad that has affected morale.

Away from the training ground in the players private lives they are most likely pissed off that one player managed to barrel the club like that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a surprise,166 posts on this thread and im the only one from Manchester

BLUE MOON

think im finished here

bye

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