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benefits cap

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By *exycleaner OP   Woman
over a year ago

pontefract

just watched bbc programme on this

seems im lowest of the low.

a lady who was facing eviction couldnt decide whether to stay on benefits or get a job ,she says i not want to clean toilets all day for minimum wage ,

is that the problem we have today that folk think they are too good for jobs ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sadly some see it that way the stigma they see from doing a lowly paid job is worse than claiming benefits which frankly isn't right but what as a society can we do about it?

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By *exycleaner OP   Woman
over a year ago

pontefract

so as i clean toilets all day for min wage

what does that say about me ???

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A good place to start is to increase the wage stigma will go then

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"so as i clean toilets all day for min wage

what does that say about me ??? "

It says you clean toilets for a living. Be proud

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The lowest of the low are those people who do not treat others with respect for the job they do - especially when they are doing a job that those who stand in judgement wouldn't do themselves.

Oh and never piss off the person who cleans both your desk and your toilet, lest they use the same cloth for both.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so as i clean toilets all day for min wage

what does that say about me ??? "

Its commendable as are most jobs that involve a lot of physical graft. After all we all clean our own homes or I hope we do someone who doesn't clean I wouldn't think highly of at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It was shocking watching that but things are going to get worse for everyone soon with the introduction of universal credit, apparently it's meant to be rolled out over the uk by 2018

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By *entaur_UKMan
over a year ago

Cannock


"A good place to start is to increase the wage stigma will go then"

I agree, the minimum wage should be raised so it becomes a "living wage".

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

We do have a problem with SOME people thinking that jobs are below them. Not everyone on benefits is like that but some are.

Be proud that you have a job and that you do it when others wouldn't. You stand head and shoulders above them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I just hated seeing people with 7 or 8 kids expecting the government to give them better housing options, was ridiculous. It's like taking on ten credit cards then complaining you don't earn enough to pay.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so as i clean toilets all day for min wage

what does that say about me ??? "

Don't worry, a job does not define a person. It's something (most of us do) you should be proud to have a job and be paying your way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It was refreshing to see that the benefit cap is working.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It was refreshing to see that the benefit cap is working."

They just need to get rid of the Baseball Cap, then I will be happy!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suspect Nigel Farage will be thanking the BBC for an hour long party political broadcast for UKIP.

As for the OP, you are amazing and don't ever let anyone or anything make you feel anything less than that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so as i clean toilets all day for min wage

what does that say about me ???

Its commendable as are most jobs that involve a lot of physical graft. After all we all clean our own homes or I hope we do someone who doesn't clean I wouldn't think highly of at all. "

No jobs are better than others. ALL jobs are needed and important in their own way.

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By *bony in IvoryCouple
over a year ago

Black&White Utopia


"so as i clean toilets all day for min wage

what does that say about me ??? "
but it into perspective; ok a huge corperate company in a posh office block, the managing director goes off on holiday for two weeks. Loo attendant/ unblocker/ cleaner has a family emergency and also off work for two weeks. No cover sorted for either. Toiletts get blocked after three days, no bog roll, soap, dirty loos and sinks.... Who is missed more ?! The MD or the Loo attendant? .... What ever job anyone does is just as important , from the manual worker to the MD ! ... Makes you as important as anyone eles

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The programme clearly demonstrates how the welfare system is being abused.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

although I sympathise with those not wanting to move away, the choice of hostel/bedsit/homelessness or home elsewhere, where's the issue?

It's different if they have jobs. As for commuting to work, again what's the issue if that cost is covered by the reduction of rent?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The programme clearly demonstrates how the welfare system is being abused."

It is being abused by some though not all I would say others have touched on the real issue and thats the stigma of claiming being less than doing what some see as a menial job. There is far less personal pride in knowing you support yourself in this modern era but then you end up castigating those that really need the system to keep them going so where do you draw the line.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

nothing wrong with cleaning toilets, depends which toilets they are though.

not everyone could do it as you need a strong stomach.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Says your hard working and have pride, which is lacking this day and age xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It says you're a better person than I if I was ever in that situation - I don't believe I could do it to be honest - pathetic but true

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just hated seeing people with 7 or 8 kids expecting the government to give them better housing options, was ridiculous. It's like taking on ten credit cards then complaining you don't earn enough to pay."

Yes and quite a few single parents with more than one kid.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

When I was married and my son was a baby I used to go to college in the day and clean factory toilets at night. Why? Cause we needed the money. I'm not saying all but some don't know their born

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

they were still getting to live in a nice house, they should be grateful for that. just reminded me of that film, poor cow, people should watch it make them realise how lucky they are.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just hated seeing people with 7 or 8 kids expecting the government to give them better housing options, was ridiculous. It's like taking on ten credit cards then complaining you don't earn enough to pay.

Yes and quite a few single parents with more than one kid. "

I know, grates on me - I just wonder how they think, saying they love all their kids but have little means to keep them, frustrated me seeing mothers putting themselves in that position. Obviously not tarring all single mothers with any brush!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/04/14 18:01:50]

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn


"so as i clean toilets all day for min wage

what does that say about me ??? "

that you are prepared to earn a living...

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

I think I must have been watching a different programme.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It was refreshing to see that the benefit cap is working."

its just a shame its set so high.

its a lot more than the likes of the OP is going to get every week, for getting off her arse and doing a job many wouldnt even consider (yes, i did when i was out of work. no one would give me even a cleaning job ffs!!)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think cleaning toilets is a *crap* job I wouldn't want to do it.

But you can be proud that you're prepared to do that job. People that refuse such jobs to take benefits shouldn't be entitled to benefits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think I must have been watching a different programme. "

Same here...

I saw it as a way of removing the lower classes out of london if im honest and thought it was disgraceful.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I work 12hrs a week but just need to work 16hrs then it wont be capped.. love it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think I must have been watching a different programme.

Same here...

I saw it as a way of removing the lower classes out of london if im honest and thought it was disgraceful. "

There is a massive shortage of affordable property in London which means it is only going to become more expensive to live here without a massive amount of money being spent on social housing. With the stock of affordable housing being so small unfortunately those who are totally reliant on the state for their income are going to have to accept housing where it is offered.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think I must have been watching a different programme.

Same here...

I saw it as a way of removing the lower classes out of london if im honest and thought it was disgraceful.

There is a massive shortage of affordable property in London which means it is only going to become more expensive to live here without a massive amount of money being spent on social housing. With the stock of affordable housing being so small unfortunately those who are totally reliant on the state for their income are going to have to accept housing where it is offered."

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"I think I must have been watching a different programme.

Same here...

I saw it as a way of removing the lower classes out of london if im honest and thought it was disgraceful. "

I wasn't aware that 'class' was one of the eligibility criteria to claim benefits?

I thought they were open to all, regardless of background and that the benefit cap affected all equally?

Or are you saying there's a specific 'class' that has priority over benefit entitlements? Are life long benefit claimants who've never worked a day in their life entitled to more than someone who has worked a decade or two and lost their job?

Always makes me laugh (sadly) when the 'class' argument comes out in relation to any thread about benefits.

A

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think I must have been watching a different programme.

Same here...

I saw it as a way of removing the lower classes out of london if im honest and thought it was disgraceful.

I wasn't aware that 'class' was one of the eligibility criteria to claim benefits?

I thought they were open to all, regardless of background and that the benefit cap affected all equally?

Or are you saying there's a specific 'class' that has priority over benefit entitlements? Are life long benefit claimants who've never worked a day in their life entitled to more than someone who has worked a decade or two and lost their job?

Always makes me laugh (sadly) when the 'class' argument comes out in relation to any thread about benefits.

A"

Although I agree with the cap, it does mean that London will become elitist.

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By *istress V in Yorks 2Woman
over a year ago

Yorkshire


"so as i clean toilets all day for min wage

what does that say about me ??? "
it says you can hold your head high knowing you earned your money x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its a shame domestic jobs aren't sure paid more. I left my cleaning job (contractor) in a&e for a Band 3 NHS job, even on band 3 I'm on much better money than I was, I actually loved the cleaning though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was turned down for a cleaning job as I don't have any experience

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By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield


"I think I must have been watching a different programme.

Same here...

I saw it as a way of removing the lower classes out of london if im honest and thought it was disgraceful.

I wasn't aware that 'class' was one of the eligibility criteria to claim benefits?

I thought they were open to all, regardless of background and that the benefit cap affected all equally?

Or are you saying there's a specific 'class' that has priority over benefit entitlements? Are life long benefit claimants who've never worked a day in their life entitled to more than someone who has worked a decade or two and lost their job?

Always makes me laugh (sadly) when the 'class' argument comes out in relation to any thread about benefits.

A

Although I agree with the cap, it does mean that London will become elitist. "

I do think it will all go awry when there's no-one left who can afford to work the menial jobs which are low paid and people in central London will have to clean their own loos and bus their own tables.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think I must have been watching a different programme.

Same here...

I saw it as a way of removing the lower classes out of london if im honest and thought it was disgraceful.

I wasn't aware that 'class' was one of the eligibility criteria to claim benefits?

I thought they were open to all, regardless of background and that the benefit cap affected all equally?

Or are you saying there's a specific 'class' that has priority over benefit entitlements? Are life long benefit claimants who've never worked a day in their life entitled to more than someone who has worked a decade or two and lost their job?

Always makes me laugh (sadly) when the 'class' argument comes out in relation to any thread about benefits.

A

Although I agree with the cap, it does mean that London will become elitist.

I do think it will all go awry when there's no-one left who can afford to work the menial jobs which are low paid and people in central London will have to clean their own loos and bus their own tables. "

Those on low wages and part-timers 16 hours plus, will not see their benefits capped. Or so I understand from the programme.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

I think the propaganda against those at the bottom of the pile has been very successful.

Deeply saddens me.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next government policy proposed housing the poor in huge buildings together, just feeding them and making sure they did some kind of 'community' work in receiot of it - ssy oakum picking. And I bet a lot of people would think it a good idea. As long as it's not happening to them.

And in despair I leave the discussion.

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By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield


"I think I must have been watching a different programme.

Same here...

I saw it as a way of removing the lower classes out of london if im honest and thought it was disgraceful.

I wasn't aware that 'class' was one of the eligibility criteria to claim benefits?

I thought they were open to all, regardless of background and that the benefit cap affected all equally?

Or are you saying there's a specific 'class' that has priority over benefit entitlements? Are life long benefit claimants who've never worked a day in their life entitled to more than someone who has worked a decade or two and lost their job?

Always makes me laugh (sadly) when the 'class' argument comes out in relation to any thread about benefits.

A

Although I agree with the cap, it does mean that London will become elitist.

I do think it will all go awry when there's no-one left who can afford to work the menial jobs which are low paid and people in central London will have to clean their own loos and bus their own tables.

Those on low wages and part-timers 16 hours plus, will not see their benefits capped. Or so I understand from the programme."

One of the side effects is that many landlords are 'discouraging' tenants who receive housing benefit because if there is a chance of them getting capped the benefits will no longer cover London rent prices. So tenants who have never missed a rent payment are fighting eviction and a rental market full of "no benefits" properties.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

neither of us would have any problem cleaning building/toilets/tables ect all day, but I couldn't do it for 5 hours a week which is most of the cleaning jobs where I live, instead of looking for full time cleaners they hire 4 cleaners at 5-10 hours a week each. I was turned down for amazon for medical reasons and there is not much left in my town, the high street is a starbucks and 3-4 pound shops, it's nuts. you can't expect everyone to work when there is not enough work to go around, but as long as we have someone to blame for all our problems, who cares eh?

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By *oulou45Woman
over a year ago

Bucks


"so as i clean toilets all day for min wage

what does that say about me ??? "
it says your a worker and like Evie says be proud.

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By *imply_SensualMan
over a year ago

warrington

I saw that programme and it still amazes me that people can make a chic whether its better to be working or better to be on benefits. It should be a no brainer, working must be the most beneficial every time.

I can't remember the circumstances of the person, but one (female) was being inter_iewed as she looked for jobs etc, as a backdrop, she was in the background on a Macbook - I appreciate her partner may be earning but you can't cry about being a victim when you surround things that others can only dream of, regardless of how materialistic that sounds.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It says you are a woman who values her self respect and worth, more power to you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry, my previous post was for sexy cleaner.

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By *exycleaner OP   Woman
over a year ago

pontefract

thanks for all your replies folks ,and sadly as i only get paid the min wage i have 3 jobs ,and it actually makes me laugh that the people where i clean not know what the min wage is xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The fact is, the rest of society (those of us who work to pay our own way) can not always afford to live in our first choice of location, or the house of our dreams, so why should people who are being funded by us get that luxury?

by all means have a safety net to support people in times of need, but the ingratitude of some people is astounding! being given money and housing for free and complaining about it!

When we purchased our last home, we had to make a choice based on the size and location, as we were not able to comfortably afford the size of house we would like in our preferred location.

As a result we chose a location slightly further, in order to have the slightly bigger property.

It is only recently that our hard work and sacrifices in other areas have paid off, and allowed us to upgrade further to where we are now. We certainly did not expect other people to provide our dream home for us!

As for the private landlords no longer wanting social housing tenants due to the cap, they are not a charity, why should they be forced to lower their prices because someone who wants their house can not afford it?

We do not go into shops complaining that they do not lower the prices of items that we want to suit our budgets, so why should housing work in that way?

This country has too many people who do not take responsibility for themselves, and expect everything given to them on a plate.

The only problem I see with the benefits cap is that it is not tight enough! it is a disgrace that people who go out to work can be worse off than those who sit at home.

As for the "what about the children" cries, that also is about taking responsibility.

We would have liked more children, but took into account how many we could comfortably provide for.

we get nothing from the state no tax credits, no child benefit, no child allowance and our employees do not turn around and say they are giving us pay rises because we chose to have another child, nor does an estate agent come over and say we get a free upgrade to a bigger home due to having more children - so we are stuck with how many we can afford!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and to sexy cleaner....

you should be proud, you do a difficult job for little recognition. I take my hat off to you.

I believe cleaning should be higher paid as many people will openly admit that they could not/ would not do it.

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By *exycleaner OP   Woman
over a year ago

pontefract

yeh to that

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By *ctaviusStuntMan
over a year ago

plymouth

oh the propaganda continues. when you vote do you realise that those in power will use that position to demonise any group they want to act against and divide the social classes ? One day it might be a group you are in that they choose to demonise. A tactic that was used to great effect by the third reich. Personally i dont think its the job of politicians to divide people and create groups to hate just so they can cling on to power.

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By *irtydanMan
over a year ago

Blackpool


"so as i clean toilets all day for min wage

what does that say about me ??? "
i think you should be proud of yourself at least your out there trying

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By *iverpool LoverMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"oh the propaganda continues. when you vote do you realise that those in power will use that position to demonise any group they want to act against and divide the social classes ? One day it might be a group you are in that they choose to demonise. A tactic that was used to great effect by the third reich. Personally i dont think its the job of politicians to divide people and create groups to hate just so they can cling on to power."

exactly.

Divide and conquer.

If only people realised the power we would have if everyone worked together.

the top 5% would be shaking in their boots that their way of life and control would be soon at an end.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the propaganda against those at the bottom of the pile has been very successful.

Deeply saddens me.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next government policy proposed housing the poor in huge buildings together, just feeding them and making sure they did some kind of 'community' work in receiot of it - ssy oakum picking. And I bet a lot of people would think it a good idea. As long as it's not happening to them.

And in despair I leave the discussion. "

I read the posts with despsir and then saw yours. Thank you for your compassion and decency

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"oh the propaganda continues. when you vote do you realise that those in power will use that position to demonise any group they want to act against and divide the social classes ? One day it might be a group you are in that they choose to demonise. A tactic that was used to great effect by the third reich. Personally i dont think its the job of politicians to divide people and create groups to hate just so they can cling on to power.

exactly.

Divide and conquer.

If only people realised the power we would have if everyone worked together.

the top 5% would be shaking in their boots that their way of life and control would be soon at an end."

............and those who do nothing would STILL be sat doing nothing, expecting it all on a plate!

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By *ctaviusStuntMan
over a year ago

plymouth


"oh the propaganda continues. when you vote do you realise that those in power will use that position to demonise any group they want to act against and divide the social classes ? One day it might be a group you are in that they choose to demonise. A tactic that was used to great effect by the third reich. Personally i dont think its the job of politicians to divide people and create groups to hate just so they can cling on to power.

exactly.

Divide and conquer.

If only people realised the power we would have if everyone worked together.

the top 5% would be shaking in their boots that their way of life and control would be soon at an end."

Yes politicians are their to work in the interests of the people, on behalf of the people and only get that authority from your vote.

Personally i think the benefits cap should extend to politicians, a group i hasten to add who have more of a sense of entitlement than any of the groups they demonise. If people took some time to look at the mp's expense claims in the last year on the houses of parliament web site they might be surprised to see what they still claim for.

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By *ctaviusStuntMan
over a year ago

plymouth


"oh the propaganda continues. when you vote do you realise that those in power will use that position to demonise any group they want to act against and divide the social classes ? One day it might be a group you are in that they choose to demonise. A tactic that was used to great effect by the third reich. Personally i dont think its the job of politicians to divide people and create groups to hate just so they can cling on to power.

exactly.

Divide and conquer.

If only people realised the power we would have if everyone worked together.

the top 5% would be shaking in their boots that their way of life and control would be soon at an end.

............and those who do nothing would STILL be sat doing nothing, expecting it all on a plate!"
who are these people and what do you know of their lives ? i mean personally, not what you get fed in the form of propaganda ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"oh the propaganda continues. when you vote do you realise that those in power will use that position to demonise any group they want to act against and divide the social classes ? One day it might be a group you are in that they choose to demonise. A tactic that was used to great effect by the third reich. Personally i dont think its the job of politicians to divide people and create groups to hate just so they can cling on to power.

exactly.

Divide and conquer.

If only people realised the power we would have if everyone worked together.

the top 5% would be shaking in their boots that their way of life and control would be soon at an end.

............and those who do nothing would STILL be sat doing nothing, expecting it all on a plate! who are these people and what do you know of their lives ? i mean personally, not what you get fed in the form of propaganda ?"

Actually, in my line of work I come across MANY of them on a daily basis!

I am perfectly able to make my own judgements thank you very much.

Just because I disagree with you, does not my MY opinion less valid than yours!

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"oh the propaganda continues. when you vote do you realise that those in power will use that position to demonise any group they want to act against and divide the social classes ? One day it might be a group you are in that they choose to demonise. A tactic that was used to great effect by the third reich. Personally i dont think its the job of politicians to divide people and create groups to hate just so they can cling on to power.

exactly.

Divide and conquer.

If only people realised the power we would have if everyone worked together.

the top 5% would be shaking in their boots that their way of life and control would be soon at an end.

Yes politicians are their to work in the interests of the people, on behalf of the people and only get that authority from your vote.

Personally i think the benefits cap should extend to politicians, a group i hasten to add who have more of a sense of entitlement than any of the groups they demonise. If people took some time to look at the mp's expense claims in the last year on the houses of parliament web site they might be surprised to see what they still claim for. "

How can the benefit cap be applied to someone in employment that's not claiming benefits?

A

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is about the benefits cap, NOT MPs expenses.

The same old argument is brought out time and time again in defence of people who just take.

what about tax fraud, what about the bankers, what about the MPs.

yes, the people guilty of abusing the system are in the wrong, but that does not make the benefits culture ok.

it is like trying to justify the actions of a thief, because you know the person up the road committed a murder, someone else doing wrong does not absolve you of your own faults.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"oh the propaganda continues. when you vote do you realise that those in power will use that position to demonise any group they want to act against and divide the social classes ? One day it might be a group you are in that they choose to demonise. A tactic that was used to great effect by the third reich. Personally i dont think its the job of politicians to divide people and create groups to hate just so they can cling on to power.

exactly.

Divide and conquer.

If only people realised the power we would have if everyone worked together.

the top 5% would be shaking in their boots that their way of life and control would be soon at an end.

Yes politicians are their to work in the interests of the people, on behalf of the people and only get that authority from your vote.

Personally i think the benefits cap should extend to politicians, a group i hasten to add who have more of a sense of entitlement than any of the groups they demonise. If people took some time to look at the mp's expense claims in the last year on the houses of parliament web site they might be surprised to see what they still claim for.

How can the benefit cap be applied to someone in employment that's not claiming benefits?

A"

You're right. You can't cap the benefit of someone who isn't claiming benefit but just because someone is in employment doesn't mean they can't claim/ aren't claiming benefit(s).

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"oh the propaganda continues. when you vote do you realise that those in power will use that position to demonise any group they want to act against and divide the social classes ? One day it might be a group you are in that they choose to demonise. A tactic that was used to great effect by the third reich. Personally i dont think its the job of politicians to divide people and create groups to hate just so they can cling on to power.

exactly.

Divide and conquer.

If only people realised the power we would have if everyone worked together.

the top 5% would be shaking in their boots that their way of life and control would be soon at an end.

Yes politicians are their to work in the interests of the people, on behalf of the people and only get that authority from your vote.

Personally i think the benefits cap should extend to politicians, a group i hasten to add who have more of a sense of entitlement than any of the groups they demonise. If people took some time to look at the mp's expense claims in the last year on the houses of parliament web site they might be surprised to see what they still claim for.

How can the benefit cap be applied to someone in employment that's not claiming benefits?

A

You're right. You can't cap the benefit of someone who isn't claiming benefit but just because someone is in employment doesn't mean they can't claim/ aren't claiming benefit(s)."

Correct!

I should have specified MPs - as they all - Tory, Labour or whatever - earn the same amount, far above the amount eligible to claim.

A

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"oh the propaganda continues. when you vote do you realise that those in power will use that position to demonise any group they want to act against and divide the social classes ? One day it might be a group you are in that they choose to demonise. A tactic that was used to great effect by the third reich. Personally i dont think its the job of politicians to divide people and create groups to hate just so they can cling on to power.

exactly.

Divide and conquer.

If only people realised the power we would have if everyone worked together.

the top 5% would be shaking in their boots that their way of life and control would be soon at an end.

............and those who do nothing would STILL be sat doing nothing, expecting it all on a plate! who are these people and what do you know of their lives ? i mean personally, not what you get fed in the form of propaganda ?"

so, Octy, are you saying there is no such thing as a benefit cheat?

no one scamming the system?

no one taking what isnt theres to take?

strange, because pretty much everyone you can talk to knows someone who is

so yes, the MPs get their noses in the troughs, but they get brought down a peg or two every now and then (dont think i would lose my job, or forced to resign, for shagging around, would you?)

you may well back the benefit culture thats in this country.

many working people, that need it to subsidise their meagre income, or those that fall back on it when hard times are abound, hate the fact, and it is a fact, that people have made a fairly decent living by scamming and living on state handouts.

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By *ctaviusStuntMan
over a year ago

plymouth


"oh the propaganda continues. when you vote do you realise that those in power will use that position to demonise any group they want to act against and divide the social classes ? One day it might be a group you are in that they choose to demonise. A tactic that was used to great effect by the third reich. Personally i dont think its the job of politicians to divide people and create groups to hate just so they can cling on to power.

exactly.

Divide and conquer.

If only people realised the power we would have if everyone worked together.

the top 5% would be shaking in their boots that their way of life and control would be soon at an end.

Yes politicians are their to work in the interests of the people, on behalf of the people and only get that authority from your vote.

Personally i think the benefits cap should extend to politicians, a group i hasten to add who have more of a sense of entitlement than any of the groups they demonise. If people took some time to look at the mp's expense claims in the last year on the houses of parliament web site they might be surprised to see what they still claim for.

How can the benefit cap be applied to someone in employment that's not claiming benefits?

A"
lol so second homes, curtains , kettles, gardening, irons, cookers,cutlery, furniture, decorating, lunch, dinner, breakfast, travel arent benefits then ?

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By *ctaviusStuntMan
over a year ago

plymouth

so just wondering who exactly in employment hasnt ever claimed a benefit ? you know child tax credit, child allowance, housing benefit, maternity leave, nhs treatment or any of the other many benefits that some dont regard as a benefit but none the less comes from the public purse to which all contribute ?

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"oh the propaganda continues. when you vote do you realise that those in power will use that position to demonise any group they want to act against and divide the social classes ? One day it might be a group you are in that they choose to demonise. A tactic that was used to great effect by the third reich. Personally i dont think its the job of politicians to divide people and create groups to hate just so they can cling on to power.

exactly.

Divide and conquer.

If only people realised the power we would have if everyone worked together.

the top 5% would be shaking in their boots that their way of life and control would be soon at an end.

Yes politicians are their to work in the interests of the people, on behalf of the people and only get that authority from your vote.

Personally i think the benefits cap should extend to politicians, a group i hasten to add who have more of a sense of entitlement than any of the groups they demonise. If people took some time to look at the mp's expense claims in the last year on the houses of parliament web site they might be surprised to see what they still claim for.

How can the benefit cap be applied to someone in employment that's not claiming benefits?

A lol so second homes, curtains , kettles, gardening, irons, cookers,cutlery, furniture, decorating, lunch, dinner, breakfast, travel arent benefits then ?"

In the sense of the subject of this thread?

No. And you know it.

Are they justifiable expenses? Possibly - possibly not. I am entitled to lunch, dinner and breakfast, as well as the cost of overnight accommodation when working away.

Should I not be entitled to claim these? Should I pay for them from my own pocket? Should I put myself in the same category as MPs (many of whom don't take the piss re expenses) and line myself up for abuse?

A

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

[Removed by poster at 15/04/14 15:58:45]

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By *ctaviusStuntMan
over a year ago

plymouth


"This is about the benefits cap, NOT MPs expenses.

The same old argument is brought out time and time again in defence of people who just take.

what about tax fraud, what about the bankers, what about the MPs.

yes, the people guilty of abusing the system are in the wrong, but that does not make the benefits culture ok.

it is like trying to justify the actions of a thief, because you know the person up the road committed a murder, someone else doing wrong does not absolve you of your own faults."
i asked and you didnt answer as to whom these people you refer to are and what you know about them personally, you just used some sort of emotive hysterical argument to make your point rather than talk about the issue rationally. You are also making some big assumptions about me personally.

Mp's expenses and second homes are a benefit. A benefit in this instance is anything paid for from the public purse to which all contribute.

In fact a large majority of people who claim benefits are in employment. I dont like subsidising people who operate for profit and dont pay a living wage because it might eat into their greedy profit margin.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"so just wondering who exactly in employment hasnt ever claimed a benefit ? you know child tax credit, child allowance, housing benefit, maternity leave, nhs treatment or any of the other many benefits that some dont regard as a benefit but none the less comes from the public purse to which all contribute ?"

Apart from NHS treatment? Me.

But I've probably contributed far more than I've run up in bills through deductions and contributions.

And not everyone contributed to the 'public purse'. For some it's a one way street.

A

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By *ctaviusStuntMan
over a year ago

plymouth


"so just wondering who exactly in employment hasnt ever claimed a benefit ? you know child tax credit, child allowance, housing benefit, maternity leave, nhs treatment or any of the other many benefits that some dont regard as a benefit but none the less comes from the public purse to which all contribute ?

Apart from NHS treatment? Me.

But I've probably contributed far more than I've run up in bills through deductions and contributions.

And not everyone contributed to the 'public purse'. For some it's a one way street.

A"
so private schooling then ? everyone is taxed even those who are unemployed.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"so just wondering who exactly in employment hasnt ever claimed a benefit ? you know child tax credit, child allowance, housing benefit, maternity leave, nhs treatment or any of the other many benefits that some dont regard as a benefit but none the less comes from the public purse to which all contribute ?

Apart from NHS treatment? Me.

But I've probably contributed far more than I've run up in bills through deductions and contributions.

And not everyone contributed to the 'public purse'. For some it's a one way street.

A so private schooling then ? everyone is taxed even those who are unemployed."

I give up!

A thread started as a discussion on the benefit cap is now (as usual) ending up bemoaning all who question the nature of the benefits system by throwing MPs expenses, the NHS and education into the same argument.

Both utterly irrelevant and pointless.

I'm out.

A

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is about the benefits cap, NOT MPs expenses.

The same old argument is brought out time and time again in defence of people who just take.

what about tax fraud, what about the bankers, what about the MPs.

yes, the people guilty of abusing the system are in the wrong, but that does not make the benefits culture ok.

it is like trying to justify the actions of a thief, because you know the person up the road committed a murder, someone else doing wrong does not absolve you of your own faults. i asked and you didnt answer as to whom these people you refer to are and what you know about them personally, you just used some sort of emotive hysterical argument to make your point rather than talk about the issue rationally. You are also making some big assumptions about me personally.

Mp's expenses and second homes are a benefit. A benefit in this instance is anything paid for from the public purse to which all contribute.

In fact a large majority of people who claim benefits are in employment. I dont like subsidising people who operate for profit and dont pay a living wage because it might eat into their greedy profit margin.

"

I have assumed nothing about you, it is YOU who has made assumptions about me. you have assumed that just because my _iew is different to yours that I must have been "fed propaganda" . You asked WHO these people are, I made it clear in my reply that my work brings me into close contact with these people on a daily basis. you would obviously prefer me to give you exact and detailed information regarding my work, I will not be doing this! that is neither hysterical or emotive, it is common sense!

I would suggest that YOU are unable to talk about the issue rationally, which is why you have totally changed the subject, and are now ranting about MPs expenses, when this issue at hand was the benefits cap for people who do not work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"so just wondering who exactly in employment hasnt ever claimed a benefit ? you know child tax credit, child allowance, housing benefit, maternity leave, nhs treatment or any of the other many benefits that some dont regard as a benefit but none the less comes from the public purse to which all contribute ?

Apart from NHS treatment? Me.

But I've probably contributed far more than I've run up in bills through deductions and contributions.

And not everyone contributed to the 'public purse'. For some it's a one way street.

A so private schooling then ? everyone is taxed even those who are unemployed.

I give up!

A thread started as a discussion on the benefit cap is now (as usual) ending up bemoaning all who question the nature of the benefits system by throwing MPs expenses, the NHS and education into the same argument.

Both utterly irrelevant and pointless.

I'm out.

A"

I totally agree!

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By *ctaviusStuntMan
over a year ago

plymouth


"so just wondering who exactly in employment hasnt ever claimed a benefit ? you know child tax credit, child allowance, housing benefit, maternity leave, nhs treatment or any of the other many benefits that some dont regard as a benefit but none the less comes from the public purse to which all contribute ?

Apart from NHS treatment? Me.

But I've probably contributed far more than I've run up in bills through deductions and contributions.

And not everyone contributed to the 'public purse'. For some it's a one way street.

A so private schooling then ? everyone is taxed even those who are unemployed.

I give up!

A thread started as a discussion on the benefit cap is now (as usual) ending up bemoaning all who question the nature of the benefits system by throwing MPs expenses, the NHS and education into the same argument.

Both utterly irrelevant and pointless.

I'm out.

A

I totally agree!

"

if you dont like what you vote for , stop voting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if you dont like what you vote for , stop voting

A guaranteed way to ensure change.....

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By *ctaviusStuntMan
over a year ago

plymouth


"if you dont like what you vote for , stop voting

A guaranteed way to ensure change..... "

well i dont vote but im not on here complaining about govt policy. If everyone stopped voting and politicians didnt get peoples consent there would be a lot of changes very quickly, so yes glad you agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"if you dont like what you vote for , stop voting

A guaranteed way to ensure change.....

well i dont vote but im not on here complaining about govt policy. If everyone stopped voting and politicians didnt get peoples consent there would be a lot of changes very quickly, so yes glad you agree "

Let's re-instate the monarch as leader forthwith with no need for parliament or accountability and let's return to a feudal system. Top plan

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By *ctaviusStuntMan
over a year ago

plymouth


"if you dont like what you vote for , stop voting

A guaranteed way to ensure change.....

well i dont vote but im not on here complaining about govt policy. If everyone stopped voting and politicians didnt get peoples consent there would be a lot of changes very quickly, so yes glad you agree

Let's re-instate the monarch as leader forthwith with no need for parliament or accountability and let's return to a feudal system. Top plan "

actually fellah i have blocked you on more than one occasion, so lord knows how you unblock yourself. Im happy with a feudal system or what ever.In fact feudal suits me fine as i deplore bullies and peeps who constantly want to look down there noses and put people down like they themselves are some sort of superior being. In a feudal system they might have to think twice before they open their mouths.

I know you are a last word freak so have ya final say. I blocked you for a reason as i have no wish to engage with you on any level.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"if you dont like what you vote for , stop voting

A guaranteed way to ensure change.....

well i dont vote but im not on here complaining about govt policy. If everyone stopped voting and politicians didnt get peoples consent there would be a lot of changes very quickly, so yes glad you agree

Let's re-instate the monarch as leader forthwith with no need for parliament or accountability and let's return to a feudal system. Top plan

actually fellah i have blocked you on more than one occasion, so lord knows how you unblock yourself. Im happy with a feudal system or what ever.In fact feudal suits me fine as i deplore bullies and peeps who constantly want to look down there noses and put people down like they themselves are some sort of superior being. In a feudal system they might have to think twice before they open their mouths.

I know you are a last word freak so have ya final say. I blocked you for a reason as i have no wish to engage with you on any level."

no need to say any more, my work here is done.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

.........

Mp's expenses and second homes are a benefit. A benefit in this instance is anything paid for from the public purse to which all contribute.

...........

"

I don't agree. Expenses and second homes are necessary so that MPs can do their jobs - just as a travelling salesman might be given a company car, a laptop or a mobile phone and have his/ her hotel costs repaid by the employer when working away from home.

An MP from (say) Shetland cannot be expected to pay his own travel and accommodation costs to and from London in order to represent his constituents.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The fact is, the rest of society (those of us who work to pay our own way) can not always afford to live in our first choice of location, or the house of our dreams, so why should people who are being funded by us get that luxury?

by all means have a safety net to support people in times of need, but the ingratitude of some people is astounding! being given money and housing for free and complaining about it!

When we purchased our last home, we had to make a choice based on the size and location, as we were not able to comfortably afford the size of house we would like in our preferred location.

As a result we chose a location slightly further, in order to have the slightly bigger property.

It is only recently that our hard work and sacrifices in other areas have paid off, and allowed us to upgrade further to where we are now. We certainly did not expect other people to provide our dream home for us!

As for the private landlords no longer wanting social housing tenants due to the cap, they are not a charity, why should they be forced to lower their prices because someone who wants their house can not afford it?

We do not go into shops complaining that they do not lower the prices of items that we want to suit our budgets, so why should housing work in that way?

This country has too many people who do not take responsibility for themselves, and expect everything given to them on a plate.

The only problem I see with the benefits cap is that it is not tight enough! it is a disgrace that people who go out to work can be worse off than those who sit at home.

As for the "what about the children" cries, that also is about taking responsibility.

We would have liked more children, but took into account how many we could comfortably provide for.

we get nothing from the state no tax credits, no child benefit, no child allowance and our employees do not turn around and say they are giving us pay rises because we chose to have another child, nor does an estate agent come over and say we get a free upgrade to a bigger home due to having more children - so we are stuck with how many we can afford!

"

I agree with you in almost everything. I work full time as a teacher (something that is generally considered a 'good job') but cant afford to live where I would like, or by myself which is something of a dream in London! So I think people have to accept housing where its available.

However, regarding private landlords, I think there need to be changes on those fronts too. I know its a business for them, but the state of so many places in London is disgraceful. So many people crammed into small houses. I moved out of one place which was a 2 bed flat where the living room had been turned into a third bedroom. 2 flatmates moved out just before I did - the landlord moved two couples into those 2 bedrooms. So there were 5 adults living in what was a 2 bed flat - one bathroom and a small kitchen as communal area. That is completely normal for around here. I know its off topic a bit, but I think there should be restrictions placed on private landlords coz most (not all, my current one is lovely and out flat is a steal) are greedy bastards. They don't want benefits as they wont be able to jack the price every few months when people come and go!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I just hated seeing people with 7 or 8 kids expecting the government to give them better housing options, was ridiculous. It's like taking on ten credit cards then complaining you don't earn enough to pay.

Yes and quite a few single parents with more than one kid. "

Thats the trouble, pop out a sprog and the government chucks some cash at you. Thats y they dont want to work its cos they dont hv to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think uk should limit how many kids a family can have, lets say 2 per family as max.. like china. that would stop teh jeremey kyle mother appear on the shows lol.

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton


"so as i clean toilets all day for min wage

what does that say about me ??? "

it says that you are an honourable person who would rather work than not - power to you. Z

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton


"I think uk should limit how many kids a family can have, lets say 2 per family as max.. like china. that would stop teh jeremey kyle mother appear on the shows lol."

nonsense - what about families who work to support their families? Z

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

.........

Mp's expenses and second homes are a benefit. A benefit in this instance is anything paid for from the public purse to which all contribute.

...........

I don't agree. Expenses and second homes are necessary so that MPs can do their jobs - just as a travelling salesman might be given a company car, a laptop or a mobile phone and have his/ her hotel costs repaid by the employer when working away from home.

An MP from (say) Shetland cannot be expected to pay his own travel and accommodation costs to and from London in order to represent his constituents. "

Why can an MP not stay in a travel lodge when in London.

Billed directly to the government at a very nice discount.

Bed and breakfast in with the room,like every other employee.

What makes then a very special case that they need a Million £ plus second home that mum & Dad live in rent free.

Then sold on at a nice profit that THEY get to keep.

In it to line their own pockets at any cost,every single one of them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think uk should limit how many kids a family can have, lets say 2 per family as max.. like china. that would stop teh jeremey kyle mother appear on the shows lol.

nonsense - what about families who work to support their families? Z"
I mean the thing would start at a certain date so those who suport and things are fine but from that day it enforces it.

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton


"I think uk should limit how many kids a family can have, lets say 2 per family as max.. like china. that would stop teh jeremey kyle mother appear on the shows lol.

nonsense - what about families who work to support their families? ZI mean the thing would start at a certain date so those who suport and things are fine but from that day it enforces it."

still doesn't amke sense - sorry - i may be missing your point Z

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think uk should limit how many kids a family can have, lets say 2 per family as max.. like china. that would stop teh jeremey kyle mother appear on the shows lol.

nonsense - what about families who work to support their families? ZI mean the thing would start at a certain date so those who suport and things are fine but from that day it enforces it.

still doesn't amke sense - sorry - i may be missing your point Z"
Yes or that and I recon so to lol, yeah recon chinas rule still are pretty good. Population control.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think uk should limit how many kids a family can have, lets say 2 per family as max.. like china. that would stop teh jeremey kyle mother appear on the shows lol.

nonsense - what about families who work to support their families? ZI mean the thing would start at a certain date so those who suport and things are fine but from that day it enforces it.

still doesn't amke sense - sorry - i may be missing your point ZYes or that and I recon so to lol, yeah recon chinas rule still are pretty good. Population control."

We could start with everyone inside the M25 being sterilised.

Watch those house prices fall,and Mps give up their sacred second homes.

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