FabSwingers.com forum: dont understand

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

how come its going to be a hung parliament

when the tories are the clear winners?

or am i beeing thick

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It confuses the hell out of me as well. It seems to be down to the way our electoral system works.

We have a 'first past the post' system, in that whoever gains the magic number of 326 seats wins with an overall majority.

The libdems are pushing for proportional representation, in which they would do far better. This is based on the vote percentage, rather than seats gained. For example, they may get 20 odd percent of the vote overall, but as it stands if most of those votes are in just 50 seats then they lose out.

What it seems to mean is that the incumbent PM can cling onto power because "the people haven't voted in the tories" or some other such guff.

We still end up with Gordon Brown....FFS!!

Hope that makes sense...............

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By *im53Man
over a year ago

Boldon

dont know how you say that

no one has an out right majority yet

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Did you read what I said or just jump in?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the winning party has to win more than half the seats available to rule outright which is 326 ot the 650 available

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The "magic number" is 326 I think: that's the number of seats the winner needs to get a majority.

As it stands Labour and the Tories won't get that number on their own: hence a hung Parliament.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It confuses the hell out of me as well. It seems to be down to the way our electoral system works.

We have a 'first past the post' system, in that whoever gains the magic number of 326 seats wins with an overall majority.

What it seems to mean is that the incumbent PM can cling onto power because "the people haven't voted in the tories" or some other such guff.

We still end up with Gordon Brown....FFS!!

Hope that makes sense...............

thank you that did make sence, stupid system.

any one know how a hung parliament works

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By *im53Man
over a year ago

Boldon

"Did you read what I said or just jump in?

it went up at the same time

so sorry if you think i had ignored you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm an attention whore, I refuse to be ignored

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By *prite128Woman
over a year ago

maidstone

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8659878.stm

this is a pretty clear guide to the options now, including he link to the outcomes tree ( i think thats what they called it )

chaos for a few days till they work it out lol

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

thanks will have alook

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By *im53Man
over a year ago

Boldon

"I'm an attention whore, I refuse to be ignored

wanders off to make coffee (shaking head)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8659878.stm

this is a pretty clear guide to the options now, including he link to the outcomes tree ( i think thats what they called it )

chaos for a few days till they work it out lol"

having read the above it seems that after we all voted none of it means anything and its down to the mps to make the choice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"how come its going to be a hung parliament

when the tories are the clear winners?

or am i beeing thick"

If you dont get 50% of the seats you dont get to be boss unless some others let you share their seats

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By *prite128Woman
over a year ago

maidstone

"how come its going to be a hung parliament

when the tories are the clear winners?

or am i beeing thick

If you dont get 50% of the seats you dont get to be boss unless some others let you share their seats

or promise not to kick your seats out from under you as you go to sit on them lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

650 seats available , so a majority party needs 326 to out vote others and get their ideas through . hung parliament simply means no one party has this majority . simplist way i can think of how to describe it .hope it helps .

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"650 seats available , so a majority party needs 326 to out vote others and get their ideas through . hung parliament simply means no one party has this majority . simplist way i can think of how to describe it .hope it helps ."

understand that now but whats wrong with the one with the most votes winning what ever the amount

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Judging by the number of folk that was turned away from the polls after 10 do people think there ought be another vote?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

so why does the winning party need over half the seats? surely th fact that MORE people voted for conservtive and so they have MORE seats means they should be in charge?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Judging by the number of folk that was turned away from the polls after 10 do people think there ought be another vote?"

didnt really watch much about this but the polling stations ere open for AGES!! why did they leave it till the last minute?? its their own fault they didnt get to vote

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"how come its going to be a hung parliament

when the tories are the clear winners?

or am i beeing thick

If you dont get 50% of the seats you dont get to be boss unless some others let you share their seats

or promise not to kick your seats out from under you as you go to sit on them lol"

Think of it like this.

The ice cream van comes to the house of commons but the ice cream man says he will only sell the mps one flavour.

Con want vanilla. 300

Lab want chocolate.250

Lib want raspberry ripple.60

But no one gets 50% to force every one to have their flavour. If Lab get the Libs 60 seats they get 310 and we all have chocolate.

(Yes i know there is more than 610 seats but i am making it simple)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the votes can be spread out for example the lib dems 20 odd poercent of the vote but spread out over different areas so not as many seats . thats what all the pr is about that the lib dems want we have the first past the post bs which means whoever gets the 326 first gets in . dont think i explained that too well but its too early in the morning for my brain to be in top gear soz lol

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"how come its going to be a hung parliament

when the tories are the clear winners?

or am i beeing thick

If you dont get 50% of the seats you dont get to be boss unless some others let you share their seats

or promise not to kick your seats out from under you as you go to sit on them lol

Think of it like this.

The ice cream van comes to the house of commons but the ice cream man says he will only sell the mps one flavour.

Con want vanilla. 300

Lab want chocolate.250

Lib want raspberry ripple.60

But no one gets 50% to force every one to have their flavour. If Lab get the Libs 60 seats they get 310 and we all have chocolate.

(Yes i know there is more than 610 seats but i am making it simple)"

understand that but whats wrong with majority rule?

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By *icknDeeCouple
over a year ago

hartlepool

"so why does the winning party need over half the seats? surely th fact that MORE people voted for conservtive and so they have MORE seats means they should be in charge?"

Because if you're the goverment with say 300 seats, there are 350 mps on the other side voting against anything you try to do... hence, you can't do anything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"how come its going to be a hung parliament

when the tories are the clear winners?

or am i beeing thick

If you dont get 50% of the seats you dont get to be boss unless some others let you share their seats

or promise not to kick your seats out from under you as you go to sit on them lol

Think of it like this.

The ice cream van comes to the house of commons but the ice cream man says he will only sell the mps one flavour.

Con want vanilla. 300

Lab want chocolate.250

Lib want raspberry ripple.60

But no one gets 50% to force every one to have their flavour. If Lab get the Libs 60 seats they get 310 and we all have chocolate.

(Yes i know there is more than 610 seats but i am making it simple)

understand that but whats wrong with majority rule?"

The fairest way is what they call proportional representation. If 40% of people vote for one party they get 40% of the vote. At the moment you only need 35-40% to force your views on the other 60+%

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"so why does the winning party need over half the seats? surely th fact that MORE people voted for conservtive and so they have MORE seats means they should be in charge?

Because if you're the goverment with say 300 seats, there are 350 mps on the other side voting against anything you try to do... hence, you can't do anything."

your right thats the trouble with "party politics " our MP's vote like sheep instead of to what they truly believe on any given decision.

Got to say i cant bel;ieve how the murdoch machine is trying to bounce in the Torys cus gordon brown shut the open door of downing street on him .

I am glad its a hung parliament as i dont want that bastard to believe he can manipulate the voters of this country .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i said ages ago we were heading for a hung parliament wish i had betted on it now!

its goin to be interesting as the rest of the seats come in, to see who is goin to go over to who!

sinn fein and snp i cant see goin over to the tory bed especially snp as it would be a very bad move for them as scotland only has the one lone tory!

interestin times xxx!

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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago

inverclyde

i certainly think those who were turned away from voting should have the right to vote as it could make a difference

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so why does the winning party need over half the seats? surely th fact that MORE people voted for conservtive and so they have MORE seats means they should be in charge?"

It doesn't seem fair, that's why the Lib Dems want proportional representation.

A clear majority is needed otherwise how would any bills etc get past?!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Look at it like this.

If we are going to have cuts in public services then one party wont force bad ones on us all. Well thats the way i see it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"understand that but whats wrong with majority rule?"

Majority rule is what we have now, the first-past-the-post system, the post being 326 MPs which is more than all the others put together.

The problem with this type of system is that the party with the largest number of MPs often get them on a small % of total votes cast. Usually around 35%-40%. That leaves 60% who didn't back them. It also means that a party could come second in every constituency, amassing a huge % of votes cast but end up with no MPs because they didn't win in any constituency. The Liberlas have complained about this for many years and in this election they got some 6.4m votes but only 51 MPs. It's hugely unproportional to the amount of people supporting the Libdems to the number of MPs in Westminster to represent them.

Under Proportional Representation the Liberals would have got 23% of the seats available in the House of Commons as they had 23% of the total votes cast. Some 150 MPs, not the 51 they actually got.

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By *icknDeeCouple
over a year ago

hartlepool

"your right thats the trouble with "party politics " our MP's vote like sheep instead of to what they truly believe on any given decision.

Got to say i cant bel;ieve how the murdoch machine is trying to bounce in the Torys cus gordon brown shut the open door of downing street on him .

I am glad its a hung parliament as i dont want that bastard to believe he can manipulate the voters of this country."

Call me young and naive. OK, just call me naive, but... I always thought things would be interesting of Political parties were banned and MPs were forced to actually represent the views of the their constituents. OK, it'd probably be completely unworkable but hey, no worse than what goes on at the moment.

I'm sure I voted for a person, not a party...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem with proportional representation is we still would not end up with a majority government. The Lib Dems would have more influence for sure, but based on current figures of Con 36%, Lab 29% and Lib 23% the 'winning' party would still struggle to pass laws.

Unless of course MP's voted how they felt and not how they were told to

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Look at it like this.

If we are going to have cuts in public services then one party wont force bad ones on us all. Well thats the way i see it

Under the current economic climate I think you may have hit the nail smack bang on the head there.

Now is the time for some brutal cuts and if the three main parties can take the best parts of their manifestos and work together then maybe the pain of those cuts can be eased as much as possible.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The problem with proportional representation is we still would not end up with a majority government. The Lib Dems would have more influence for sure, but based on current figures of Con 36%, Lab 29% and Lib 23% the 'winning' party would still struggle to pass laws.

Unless of course MP's voted how they felt and not how they were told to

On some issues, even in a majority government, MPs are given what is known as a 'free vote'. This means they can vote with their consciences ignoring anhy official party policy or directive. It doesn't happen that often but maybe occur more in a hung parliament.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Looking at it all no one will be happy!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"your right thats the trouble with "party politics " our MP's vote like sheep instead of to what they truly believe on any given decision.

Got to say i cant bel;ieve how the murdoch machine is trying to bounce in the Torys cus gordon brown shut the open door of downing street on him .

I am glad its a hung parliament as i dont want that bastard to believe he can manipulate the voters of this country.

I'm sure I voted for a person, not a party...

MPs have in effect two jobs.

1) To represent their constituents, like getting a much needed relief road built etc

2) To vote with their party in Westminster to get critical laws passed.

Constituent Politics differs greatly from National Politics which is why, in this country, we often vote for a figurehead like Brown, Cameron or Clegg. We are voting for the party we want to govern us nationally.

Local elections are the ones that are crucial to local issues and that's when you should study the local candidates to see if they believe in what you believe in.

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By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

"your right thats the trouble with "party politics " our MP's vote like sheep instead of to what they truly believe on any given decision.

Got to say i cant bel;ieve how the murdoch machine is trying to bounce in the Torys cus gordon brown shut the open door of downing street on him .

I am glad its a hung parliament as i dont want that bastard to believe he can manipulate the voters of this country.

I'm sure I voted for a person, not a party...

your so right on that ,and with 80% of new laws coming from Europe uk govt is now a middle management operation.

UK will change so much over the next 4 years under lisbon even our councils will come under control of brussels.

I was a labour voter all my adult life ,but after getting shafted on the referendum ..i thought what did the millions die for in the 2nd world war Democracy ?????....nah fuck em.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

Nick Clegg has announced he wants to do a deal with the tories, so hopefully later on today Gordon will do the decent thing, admit defeat and fuck off!! Lol, who am I kidding, that odious toad will cling on as long as possible..... I am willing to bet he will promise Clegg anything in order to muddy the waters and try to stop the Tories, who look to have a clear lead.

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