FabSwingers.com forum: Benefits offspring

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Should couples where neither parent have a fulltime vocation or are long term unemployed be allowed to produce children?

I think it's become nigh on impossible for working parent/s who arnt on a substantial wage 45k + to support children due to the amount of tax we pay.

This leaves a deficit where people who are responsible and only create offspring they can afford or not as the case maybe are hugely out weighed by those who contribute very little to the system yet take in handfuls all they can.

I'm aware this thread would be perhaps better received after 17:30, however I'm interested in all contributions.

Obviously where a parent/s has lost their employment 'through no fault of their own' redundancy etc are not the feature of this thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm sure there would be a huge human rights issue here & if I'm not mistaken this type of approach hasn't worked well in China where orphanages are overun with illegal, not sure that's the right word lol, offspring x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How do you think this should be enforced?

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

So you think you have to be on 45k to properly support your kids

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you're a working family and can afford children (yes I know !) Have them, if by no fault of your own you lose your job, you deserve help.

But, if you've been out of work for ages, living off benefits, NO !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So we force pregnant women to have abortions if they're claiming DLA and anyone who loses their job has to have their children euthanized?

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So we force pregnant women to have abortions if they're claiming DLA and anyone who loses their job has to have their children euthanized?"

No, people who fall on bad times deserve the help. The ponces out there that live like that forever shouldn't be allowed benefit if they get pregnant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a load of shit! A lot of families will never earn 45k, why should they not have kids! Bringing up a family is not just about money! I don't have a lot of money but my children are happy and that's all that matters.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"How do you think this should be enforced? "

Vasectomy s are reversible.

First pay cheque, stitch 'er back up doc

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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago

hertfordshire

more child care so they can find work?

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By *ibbyhunterCouple
over a year ago

keighley

forced abortions ,forced sterilizations, welcome to nazi germany.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How do you think this should be enforced?

Vasectomy s are reversible.

First pay cheque, stitch 'er back up doc "

Reversible but not guaranteed!!

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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago

hertfordshire

some young women do get pregnant on purpose because they want housing or just too lazy to work how can you change that?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What upsets me is the girls that have many kids by numerous fathers when others that would love a family can't fall pregnant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"forced abortions ,forced sterilizations, welcome to nazi germany."

Not 'forced anything'

Just don't keep paying them out with benefits

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What upsets me is the girls that have many kids by numerous fathers when others that would love a family can't fall pregnant

this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So we force pregnant women to have abortions if they're claiming DLA and anyone who loses their job has to have their children euthanized?

No, people who fall on bad times deserve the help. The ponces out there that live like that forever shouldn't be allowed benefit if they get pregnant"

Thankfully we don't live in a totalitarian, communist state. Children should be born out of love not wealth. Yes, it's a strain on the system and perhaps people should be advised not to have offspring but making it illegal is a step too far..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm a single parent, work full time, earn less than £20k a year yet manage to bring my child up, £45k is a ridiculous figure to claim you need before think about having kids.

However, I agree if long term unemployed shouldn't have kids, why should the tax payer pay for their children

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third."

Seriously! Kids in china get dumped! There will be children's homes full! If we did that here, it would cost a hell of a lot more to look after the kids in the homes than it would for benefits to be paid to the families

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"more child care so they can find work?"

THIS 110%

But it seems unworkable due to the number of those playing the system.

'Couldnt go to college Monday, I had a cough' types.

'Great Britain'

Yeah right

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By *bony in IvoryCouple
over a year ago

Black&White Utopia

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third."
in China are they not allowed more than one child tho ? Or have i got that wrong?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"forced abortions ,forced sterilizations, welcome to nazi germany.

Not 'forced anything'

Just don't keep paying them out with benefits"

So force them into poverty and possibly a life of crime and misery...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What upsets me is the girls that have many kids by numerous fathers when others that would love a family can't fall pregnant

whats wrong with having kids by different fathers?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should couples where neither parent have a fulltime vocation or are long term unemployed be allowed to produce children?

I think it's become nigh on impossible for working parent/s who arnt on a substantial wage 45k + to support children due to the amount of tax we pay.

I'm aware this thread would be perhaps better received after 17:30, however I'm interested in all contributions.

Obviously where a parent/s has lost their employment 'through no fault of their own' redundancy etc are not the feature of this thread.

The cost of monitoring and implementing it would be horrendous.

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By *ENDAROOSCouple
over a year ago

South West London / Surrey

I'm think you have probably started this thread to watch the fireworks go off!

Both of our incomes do not come anywhere near to 45k, yet we manage to support our family and pay the bills.

What do you suggest to stop women or families having kids..Sterilization?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

G4S fitted and monitored chasitry belts

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By *edangel_2013Woman
over a year ago

southend

Have you considered running for the Nazi party?

Your belief is Eugenics is quite impressive.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm think you have probably started this thread to watch the fireworks go off!

Both of our incomes do not come anywhere near to 45k, yet we manage to support our family and pay the bills.

What do you suggest to stop women or families having kids..Sterilization? "

No at all. Just interested in people's _iews on average.

As I say posting the thread during working hours, means it may not be received as it maybe after work hours

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"more child care so they can find work?"

kinda get that, kinda dont..

it still works out either the parent or the state are paying someone else to look after a child that a parent could easily be looking after themseles.

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By *ENDAROOSCouple
over a year ago

South West London / Surrey

"What upsets me is the girls that have many kids by numerous fathers when others that would love a family can't fall pregnant

whats wrong with having kids by different fathers? "

What I was going to ask? Lots of families are made up of step brothers and sisters. Including Mr B's....

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By *edangel_2013Woman
over a year ago

southend

"G4S fitted and monitored chasitry belts

G4S are already bidding to monitor low and medium risk offenders, including sex offenders, let us not let them loose with chastity belts too!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them"

I think you have missed the point looking after kids in a local authority approved place is horrendously expensive you have the staff costs for starters then the accommodation etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Okay your name is Jester & this is April 1st ... so I assume you are having a fucking laugh

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Have you considered running for the Nazi party?

Your belief is Eugenics is quite impressive. "

No, they are a bit too hard line. Some of their _iews were down right unfair.

I just believe hard working contributors to the economy arnt getting a fair deal.

I don't like this country slipping into the abyss after our fore bearers worked so hard and bled so much to create

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them"

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Okay your name is Jester & this is April 1st ... so I assume you are having a fucking laugh "

That _iew right there is exactly why we find ourselves in the dire state of affairs that we do in this country.

Everybody just 'expects' now. Nobody gives.

I've never had a day off sick. I've worked since 16 no a levels no degree.

I've served my country frontline. I've paid every penny in tax.

I've worked voluntarily and give to charities I seem worthy.

I am most definitely not having a 'fucking' laugh

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Have you considered running for the Nazi party?

Your belief is Eugenics is quite impressive.

No, they are a bit too hard line. Some of their _iews were down right unfair.

I just believe hard working contributors to the economy arnt getting a fair deal.

I don't like this country slipping into the abyss after our fore bearers worked so hard and bled so much to create"

When you've got your independence - run for the new Scottish govt and suggest this as a policy.

Unworkable.

Impractical.

Unrealistic.

And I'd suggest unethical.

A far better approach would be to spend more time concentrating on supporting people back into employment than trying to dictate how many kids they have.

Your suggestion is as viable as one expecting a swinging website to manage the behaviour of its members in the real world.

You'll be suggesting that next!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm think you have probably started this thread to watch the fireworks go off!

Both of our incomes do not come anywhere near to 45k, yet we manage to support our family and pay the bills.

What do you suggest to stop women or families having kids..Sterilization?

No at all. Just interested in people's _iews on average.

As I say posting the thread during working hours, means it may not be received as it maybe after work hours"

Work hours?!! Not everyone works 9til 5 you know!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers "

Please quote you financial sources and statistics.

You are deluded if you actually think that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so just going on the opening post you are relying on the workers who would stereotypically finish at 5 ish to agree and back up your idea?

where as those of us who are posting now are all sat at home watching wank daytime tv are all unemployed and dont any sort of relevance or opinions on the opening post?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm think you have probably started this thread to watch the fireworks go off!

Both of our incomes do not come anywhere near to 45k, yet we manage to support our family and pay the bills.

What do you suggest to stop women or families having kids..Sterilization?

No at all. Just interested in people's _iews on average.

As I say posting the thread during working hours, means it may not be received as it maybe after work hours

Work hours?!! Not everyone works 9til 5 you know!"

No your right.

For instance, I work 84 hours a week.

What do you do? Being as vocal as you are I'm assuming your a high contributor?

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Pushes in her barrow containing all of the claim forms for FORUM INSURANCE and a small steam powered printing press for eugenics/class war indemnities clauses

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"some young women do get pregnant on purpose because they want housing or just too lazy to work how can you change that?"
stop giving them free cash ! And they will stop having baby's

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"so just going on the opening post you are relying on the workers who would stereotypically finish at 5 ish to agree and back up your idea?

where as those of us who are posting now are all sat at home watching wank daytime tv are all unemployed and dont any sort of relevance or opinions on the opening post?"

Clearly not what I'm saying.

I agreed with your first post. Now your feathers are rustled and your attempting to vilify me.

I'm just suggesting that there will be more employed people replying later after work.

Simple science really.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i would much rather people that cannot have kids, have to choose a ready made one from out of the system rather than all this test tube rubbish.

people are VERY selfish when it comes to families, and think they can only have kids, and share love, if it is the fruit of their own loins.

my own point of _iew is, if you have love to give to a child, then give it to one that has either never experienced true love, or has had it and lost it, than going t oall the expense, heartache and hassle of creating yet another one to fill the world up.

there are too many reasons to list as to why i havent got kids, but they are my own

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wind up merchant......

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Have you considered running for the Nazi party?

Your belief is Eugenics is quite impressive.

No, they are a bit too hard line. Some of their _iews were down right unfair.

I just believe hard working contributors to the economy arnt getting a fair deal.

I don't like this country slipping into the abyss after our fore bearers worked so hard and bled so much to create

When you've got your independence - run for the new Scottish govt and suggest this as a policy.

Unworkable.

Impractical.

Unrealistic.

And I'd suggest unethical.

A far better approach would be to spend more time concentrating on supporting people back into employment than trying to dictate how many kids they have.

Your suggestion is as viable as one expecting a swinging website to manage the behaviour of its members in the real world.

You'll be suggesting that next!

I'm not Scottish I work here.

Am I expecting that? Thought I was just posting a thread in a forum which is quite thought provoking.

Perhaps you'd be more suited to the 'good morning' or the 'snog kiss avoid' threads

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"some young women do get pregnant on purpose because they want housing or just too lazy to work how can you change that?stop giving them free cash ! And they will stop having baby's

Some might, if they have any sense.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Wind up merchant......"

Ha ha wondered when you'd show up.

Try and stay on topic and not my profile please

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By *edangel_2013Woman
over a year ago

southend

"so just going on the opening post you are relying on the workers who would stereotypically finish at 5 ish to agree and back up your idea?

where as those of us who are posting now are all sat at home watching wank daytime tv are all unemployed and dont any sort of relevance or opinions on the opening post?

Clearly not what I'm saying.

I agreed with your first post. Now your feathers are rustled and your attempting to vilify me.

I'm just suggesting that there will be more employed people replying later after work.

Simple science really. "

I'm employed. Full time. In a very responsible job too. But next time I'll reply after 5pm, just to fit into your neat little stereotype.

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By *bony in IvoryCouple
over a year ago

Black&White Utopia

Just a general question OP ... So would you feel that a couple need this fixed joint income before they decide to have children then? I ask because nothing in life is set in stone.... And with all the best will in the world , am sure if lots of people waited till they could "afford" to have children then the population would be far from booming! In other words its not the most realistic of notions , as many have families and do cope very well on alot less than you are assuming. Not every person on benifits are claiming them without full entitlement ( for many reasons) , and many families even when both working don't earn the money you quoted ... At all!

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By *edangel_2013Woman
over a year ago

southend

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers

Please quote you financial sources and statistics.

You are deluded if you actually think that. "

Children in care cost the tax payer on average £2,500 per child, per week. I've yet to see a family, working or not, on that kind of money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"some young women do get pregnant on purpose because they want housing or just too lazy to work how can you change that?stop giving them free cash ! And they will stop having baby's

i hope its only a very very small number of people who plan to have a child soley for that reason. totally tragic if it is the case.

Bringing up a child is certainly not easy and very physically/emotionally draining at times. its 24-7 so effectivly working is less 'work'

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers

Please quote you financial sources and statistics.

You are deluded if you actually think that. "

"Children in care cost the taxpayer an average of £2,500 per child, per week-more than four times what it would cost to send a child to Eton."

Channel 4 - Profiting From Kids In Care

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

"forced abortions ,forced sterilizations, welcome to nazi germany.

Not 'forced anything'

Just don't keep paying them out with benefits"

The problem with this is that they will have the kids anyway then they can't afford to look after them without the benefit so the babies (whose fault it isn't that their parents went ahead and got pregnant knowing they wouldn't be able to afford it) would be dirty, hungry, neglected etc. then they'd end up in care.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if i was to be paid £45k a year i doubt id get any free time with my brand new spanking child since im allowed one.. lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just how would this work?

How would it be policed? Wat happens if a worki_g couple have a baby then split up before the baby is born?

Nah I can't see this working myself!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Just a general question OP ... So would you feel that a couple need this fixed joint income before they decide to have children then? I ask because nothing in life is set in stone.... And with all the best will in the world , am sure if lots of people waited till they could "afford" to have children then the population would be far from booming! In other words its not the most realistic of notions , as many have families and do cope very well on alot less than you are assuming. Not every person on benifits are claiming them without full entitlement ( for many reasons) , and many families even when both working don't earn the money you quoted ... At all!

Good point. But not valid. Many people wait till they are financially secure till they have children and accrue 'assets'

Houses

Careers

Pensions

Illness and injury cover.

These are sensible precautions laying out the foundations of a stable environment to bring up children.

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By *edangel_2013Woman
over a year ago

southend

What do you class as a stable environment?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers

Please quote you financial sources and statistics.

You are deluded if you actually think that.

"Children in care cost the taxpayer an average of £2,500 per child, per week-more than four times what it would cost to send a child to Eton."

Channel 4 - Profiting From Kids In Care

Yes and since that documentary there are steps taken to address the overspending.

Care costs can be a fraction of that.

But that's another thread

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Just how would this work?

How would it be policed? Wat happens if a worki_g couple have a baby then split up before the baby is born?

Nah I can't see this working myself!

Well that wouldn't make a difference. Three letters CSA.

And it is enforceable.

Can't answer your first question as you obviously haven't read any thread replies, it's been answered several times

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers

Please quote you financial sources and statistics.

You are deluded if you actually think that.

"Children in care cost the taxpayer an average of £2,500 per child, per week-more than four times what it would cost to send a child to Eton."

Channel 4 - Profiting From Kids In Care

Yes and since that documentary there are steps taken to address the overspending.

Care costs can be a fraction of that.

But that's another thread"

I think the benefit cap for unemployed families is now £500 week for the entire family. That would be a hell of a cut in spending from £2500 per child

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By *ENDAROOSCouple
over a year ago

South West London / Surrey

Good point. But not valid. Many people wait till they are financially secure till they have children and accrue 'assets'

Houses

Careers

Pensions

Illness and injury cover.

These are sensible precautions laying out the foundations of a stable environment to bring up children."

But it is valid we have all of the above but would not consider ourselves as secure. We learnt that harsh lesson a little while back. However 'secure' you think you are, it doesn't take much to lose or damage it.

We manage on a lot less than 45k and yes we both work.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third."

Are you seriously auggesting we should look towards China for inspiration?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just how would this work?

How would it be policed? Wat happens if a worki_g couple have a baby then split up before the baby is born?

Nah I can't see this working myself!

Well that wouldn't make a difference. Three letters CSA.

And it is enforceable.

Can't answer your first question as you obviously haven't read any thread replies, it's been answered several times"

don't like to delude you there OP but the CSA is not what it's cracked up to be!!

example they claim 20% of income declared, note I say declared not earned.

So as I was once told 20% of nothing is nothing....!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers

Please quote you financial sources and statistics.

You are deluded if you actually think that.

"Children in care cost the taxpayer an average of £2,500 per child, per week-more than four times what it would cost to send a child to Eton."

Channel 4 - Profiting From Kids In Care

Yes and since that documentary there are steps taken to address the overspending.

Care costs can be a fraction of that.

But that's another thread

I think the benefit cap for unemployed families is now £500 week for the entire family. That would be a hell of a cut in spending from £2500 per child "

£2500 a child is a scandal. Hence the documentary exposing it.

This figure is going to fall like a lead balloon after the next general election.

It has alot to do with our entrapment into the EU. But again another thread.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sure any kind of forum insurance is gonna cover this one....

I'm pulling up a chair and getting the popcorn out

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just how would this work?

How would it be policed? Wat happens if a worki_g couple have a baby then split up before the baby is born?

Nah I can't see this working myself!

Well that wouldn't make a difference. Three letters CSA.

And it is enforceable.

Can't answer your first question as you obviously haven't read any thread replies, it's been answered several times"

Are you married by any chance, and do you have children

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Good point. But not valid. Many people wait till they are financially secure till they have children and accrue 'assets'

Houses

Careers

Pensions

Illness and injury cover.

These are sensible precautions laying out the foundations of a stable environment to bring up children.

We manage on a lot less than 45k and yes we both work."

Yes you are quite right. And you have the right mindset

As I said some things are avoidable redundancy etc is not.

Those who don't want to and have never worked are the focus here.

As a hard working parent and contributor to society and the economy you should agree with me

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers

Please quote you financial sources and statistics.

You are deluded if you actually think that.

"Children in care cost the taxpayer an average of £2,500 per child, per week-more than four times what it would cost to send a child to Eton."

Channel 4 - Profiting From Kids In Care

Yes and since that documentary there are steps taken to address the overspending.

Care costs can be a fraction of that.

But that's another thread

I think the benefit cap for unemployed families is now £500 week for the entire family. That would be a hell of a cut in spending from £2500 per child

£2500 a child is a scandal. Hence the documentary exposing it.

This figure is going to fall like a lead balloon after the next general election.

It has alot to do with our entrapment into the EU. But again another thread."

It wont do where you live if Ales Samond gets his way

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *G CoupleCouple
over a year ago

kent

We both work and don't earn anywhere near 45k. Not even half. We manage without benefits. On benefits we would be better off. We have kids and they don't go without anything. But guess your right, we shouldn't have had them

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *tarbeckCouple
over a year ago

york

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers

Please quote you financial sources and statistics.

You are deluded if you actually think that.

"Children in care cost the taxpayer an average of £2,500 per child, per week-more than four times what it would cost to send a child to Eton."

Channel 4 - Profiting From Kids In Care

Yes and since that documentary there are steps taken to address the overspending.

Care costs can be a fraction of that.

But that's another thread

I think the benefit cap for unemployed families is now £500 week for the entire family. That would be a hell of a cut in spending from £2500 per child

£2500 a child is a scandal. Hence the documentary exposing it.

This figure is going to fall like a lead balloon after the next general election.

It has alot to do with our entrapment into the EU. But again another thread.

It wont do where you live if Ales Samond gets his way

ALES?

who the fook is ALES?

24 years just waiting for a chance la deee daa dee daaaa

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"We both work and don't earn anywhere near 45k. Not even half. We manage without benefits. On benefits we would be better off. We have kids and they don't go without anything. But guess your right, we shouldn't have had them"

Think of the wages you would earn if not nearly 30% of it went to paying for idle people who care not about the economy or the national image

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers

Please quote you financial sources and statistics.

You are deluded if you actually think that.

"Children in care cost the taxpayer an average of £2,500 per child, per week-more than four times what it would cost to send a child to Eton."

Channel 4 - Profiting From Kids In Care

Yes and since that documentary there are steps taken to address the overspending.

Care costs can be a fraction of that.

But that's another thread

I think the benefit cap for unemployed families is now £500 week for the entire family. That would be a hell of a cut in spending from £2500 per child

£2500 a child is a scandal. Hence the documentary exposing it.

This figure is going to fall like a lead balloon after the next general election.

It has alot to do with our entrapment into the EU. But again another thread.

It wont do where you live if Ales Samond gets his way

ALES?

who the fook is ALES?

24 years just waiting for a chance la deee daa dee daaaa"

Phone typo lol

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Not sure any kind of forum insurance is gonna cover this one....

I'm pulling up a chair and getting the popcorn out

Join me on the sofa, it is so much comfier on here.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He's taking the piss i'm sure of it now

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers

Please quote you financial sources and statistics.

You are deluded if you actually think that.

"Children in care cost the taxpayer an average of £2,500 per child, per week-more than four times what it would cost to send a child to Eton."

Channel 4 - Profiting From Kids In Care

Yes and since that documentary there are steps taken to address the overspending.

Care costs can be a fraction of that.

But that's another thread

I think the benefit cap for unemployed families is now £500 week for the entire family. That would be a hell of a cut in spending from £2500 per child

£2500 a child is a scandal. Hence the documentary exposing it.

This figure is going to fall like a lead balloon after the next general election.

It has alot to do with our entrapment into the EU. But again another thread.

It wont do where you live if Ales Samond gets his way

I'm not Scottish

Alex salmond should be shot and his family charged for the ammunition used.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *bony in IvoryCouple
over a year ago

Black&White Utopia

Good point. But not valid. Many people wait till they are financially secure till they have children and accrue 'assets'

Houses

Careers

Pensions

Illness and injury cover.

These are sensible precautions laying out the foundations of a stable environment to bring up children."
yeap and working 80 odd hours a week will see you spending no quality time with your little lovelies and no doubt "Mummy Dearest" will also work long hours . Get a "Nanny" to look after said off spring ( coz you both working all the hours to earn all the money).may be Mary poppings if you lucky ... And Dick Van dyke will be your swinging partner! Get Real!! So what happens if wifey gets made redundant, you loose one arm in a work accident, The nanny gets preggers by Dick and your savings been stolen by an unsavoury bloke in your bank? Point being is....

We don't live in an ideal world! Anything can happen to anyone. You could infact be in a position that means you and your family have to live from hand to mouth like others do... Whatcha gonna do then?!

I find it amazing that you feel its so planned out and clear cut... This is Life, and things rarly are... In an Ideal world maybe... But who really got that?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers

Please quote you financial sources and statistics.

You are deluded if you actually think that. "

You're the deluded one!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *tarbeckCouple
over a year ago

york

sorry i dont work ,fell off my bike after haveing my son left me epeleptic you try getting a job when by law you have to tell them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How do you propose to ensure 100% employability so everyone is capable of earning this 45k a year?

Since industry has been ripped out of this country, what would you replace it with?

Surely this would just lead to a swing back in the 70s where the worker was able to hold the state to ransom through strikes.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Threads like this are responsible for a lot of people getting blocked.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sure any kind of forum insurance is gonna cover this one....

I'm pulling up a chair and getting the popcorn out

Join me on the sofa, it is so much comfier on here.

Why thank you my dear I don't mind if I do.....I appear to have a day off....(sshhh it's frowned upon) haribo?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *G CoupleCouple
over a year ago

kent

Think of the wages you would earn if not nearly 30% of it went to paying for idle people who care not about the economy or the national image"

to be honest i couldn't care less, im happy, i have my family around me ( children included) so why should i care about what others think or do.

. What i own (very little) is mine but i don't need much to be happy as i have a family which is more important than any amount of money

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think of the wages you would earn if not nearly 30% of it went to paying for idle people who care not about the economy or the national image"

woah woah woah.

now here is where your argument actually falls flat on its arse.

much like all those adverts telling us to grass a benefit cheat and it will cost us less, have you EVER known the powers that be to actually hand us any tax back?

when was the last time VAT, income tax or national insurance actually came down?

i cant remember one instance (aart from when labour were spending money like a d*unken sailor on leave) that any taxes actually dropped.

so no, we wouldnt actually have any MORE money in our pockets, and you are rather naive to think otherwise.

there would just be more money available for other services, like moats and duck ponds for mp's

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *bony in IvoryCouple
over a year ago

Black&White Utopia

Not sure any kind of forum insurance is gonna cover this one....

I'm pulling up a chair and getting the popcorn out

Join me on the sofa, it is so much comfier on here.

"
any brandy anywhere? I need a stiff one! Lol

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"sorry i dont work ,fell off my bike after haveing my son left me epeleptic you try getting a job when by law you have to tell them

that was very careless.

you should have gotten a taxi home from the hospital

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *G CoupleCouple
over a year ago

kent

"Threads like this are responsible for a lot of people getting blocked.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He's taking the piss i'm sure of it now

Sadly I don't think he is

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

Hmmmm...I kind of get what the op is saying. We graduated, worked and saved, married, worked and saved some more before having kids. We reckoned we could afford three kids and I was sterilised at 31 after my third child.

Personally I couldn't imagine having kids and not being able to provide for them but expect others too. We wanted the best for our kids, I worked days my husband nights to ensure a parent was able to take the kids to school, pick them up, do their dinner etc.

Life has a habit of not going to plan and I believe as a society we should help those that fall on hard times. However, having kids because you want to, without ever expecting to work to support them is beyond the Ken, unfortunately people are allowed to have as many kids as they like and we will continue to grin and bare it: what's the alternative?

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By *G CoupleCouple
over a year ago

kent

Think of the wages you would earn if not nearly 30% of it went to paying for idle people who care not about the economy or the national image

woah woah woah.

now here is where your argument actually falls flat on its arse.

much like all those adverts telling us to grass a benefit cheat and it will cost us less, have you EVER known the powers that be to actually hand us any tax back?

when was the last time VAT, income tax or national insurance actually came down?

i cant remember one instance (aart from when labour were spending money like a d*unken sailor on leave) that any taxes actually dropped.

so no, we wouldnt actually have any MORE money in our pockets, and you are rather naive to think otherwise.

there would just be more money available for other services, like moats and duck ponds for mp's"

exactly. If you want more, move to a different country as our government will not change overnight. They will still bleed us all dry

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sure any kind of forum insurance is gonna cover this one....

I'm pulling up a chair and getting the popcorn out

Join me on the sofa, it is so much comfier on here.

any brandy anywhere? I need a stiff one! Lol

I'm sure we could conjure up a stiff one between us.....come along Tina and I will budge up a bit

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *bony in IvoryCouple
over a year ago

Black&White Utopia

Not sure any kind of forum insurance is gonna cover this one....

I'm pulling up a chair and getting the popcorn out

Join me on the sofa, it is so much comfier on here.

any brandy anywhere? I need a stiff one! Lol

I'm sure we could conjure up a stiff one between us.....come along Tina and I will budge up a bit

"
having a little "feel " of Tina's assets ... Are they real?!! Lol

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Threads like this are responsible for a lot of people getting blocked.

Is that cos it's full of shite Tina ?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should couples where neither parent have a fulltime vocation or are long term unemployed be allowed to produce children?

I think it's become nigh on impossible for working parent/s who arnt on a substantial wage 45k + to support children due to the amount of tax we pay.

I'm aware this thread would be perhaps better received after 17:30, however I'm interested in all contributions.

Obviously where a parent/s has lost their employment 'through no fault of their own' redundancy etc are not the feature of this thread.

Nowhere in your OP do you suggest abortions/ euthanasia/ whatever else you have been accused of. Interesting how people jump to conclusions. You have only asked a question.

I don't know the answer. Responsibility for your own family perhaps. Kids will always come off worse with some 'parents'. I use the term 'parents' very loosely.

Interesting debate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm aware this thread would be perhaps better received after 17:30,

........

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Never going to get a sensible objective debate on this topic. Trying to have the state control birth rates however, is clearly nonsense. More education and a clear and simple support system which is fair would be good but I doubt it will ever happen, the hardline right wingers will always argue for less and the liberal left wingers will always argue for more and politics will mean you end up with a muddled mess where no one is happy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How do you think this should be enforced? "

I suggest any bloke earning less than a certain amount, has his penis surgically removed. This would, of course, lead to problems should he then be lucky enough to get a pay rise. But he could enjoy his newfound wealth content in the knowledge that there would be no hormonal teenagers permanently on the scrounge for his heard earned dosh. I need to get a job in politics.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Should couples where neither parent have a fulltime vocation or are long term unemployed be allowed to produce children?

I think it's become nigh on impossible for working parent/s who arnt on a substantial wage 45k + to support children due to the amount of tax we pay.

I'm aware this thread would be perhaps better received after 17:30, however I'm interested in all contributions.

Obviously where a parent/s has lost their employment 'through no fault of their own' redundancy etc are not the feature of this thread.

YES ... Those without vocations and those who have been in unemployment long term SHOULD be allowed to have children.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"Should couples where neither parent have a fulltime vocation or are long term unemployed be allowed to produce children?

I think it's become nigh on impossible for working parent/s who arnt on a substantial wage 45k + to support children due to the amount of tax we pay.

I'm aware this thread would be perhaps better received after 17:30, however I'm interested in all contributions.

Obviously where a parent/s has lost their employment 'through no fault of their own' redundancy etc are not the feature of this thread.

Sounds like eugenics to me.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Should couples where neither parent have a fulltime vocation or are long term unemployed be allowed to produce children?

I think it's become nigh on impossible for working parent/s who arnt on a substantial wage 45k + to support children due to the amount of tax we pay.

I'm aware this thread would be perhaps better received after 17:30, however I'm interested in all contributions.

Obviously where a parent/s has lost their employment 'through no fault of their own' redundancy etc are not the feature of this thread.

Sounds like eugenics to me."

I find their eyeshadows a bit heavy .....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hi Granny.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Hi Beautiful

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By *andm288Couple
over a year ago

oxford

not sure if this has been mentioned previously

example if you are on benefits the state will help to pay for your first child

however if you remain on benefit and have another child you should not receive any further state help as some people appear to keep having more kids just so that they can get a council house or more benefits out of the state !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have always said you shouldn't get child benefits unless they take parenting courses !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If You Can provide and look after your children, have them

If you can't, DONT

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hi Beautiful "

Awww shucks, that just made me day.

Easily pleased me.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ooking4you69Couple
over a year ago

leeds

We don't have children by choice, everyone does have that right though we feel you should be allowed 1 that you can get help with ie benefit wise but anymore then the parents should support it......obviously not if you have a multiple birth.....there is no detterant to discourage people from churning out kid after kid after kid

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I vaguely agree that people should only have children who can afford to support them (minus the people who fall onto hard times afterwards). Yet it is fundamental human right wishing to reproduce (whether naturally or assisted) and if we begin to discriminate against people who are poor, where will it end? Disabled people? Eugenics comes to mind here!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 01/04/14 17:15:18]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you want to slow up the birth rate in this country even more, resulting in an ever increasing ageing population with higher taxes in order to pay for our pensions then sure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sure any kind of forum insurance is gonna cover this one....

I'm pulling up a chair and getting the popcorn out

Join me on the sofa, it is so much comfier on here.

I've got ben &jerry's and 3 spoons, can i join? otherwise i may say something that needs forum insurance.

*stuffs trap full of phish food to keep from talking

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *G CoupleCouple
over a year ago

kent

Find me a job..... Any and i do mean any job that pays 45k in my area and ill take it yesterday.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We don't have children by choice, "

what a strange thing to say.

who is forced to have children then?

im nearly 40 without a child in sight, so i reckon its a choice

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sure any kind of forum insurance is gonna cover this one....

I'm pulling up a chair and getting the popcorn out

Join me on the sofa, it is so much comfier on here.

I've got ben &jerry's and 3 spoons, can i join? otherwise i may say something that needs forum insurance.

*stuffs trap full of phish food to keep from talking"

Join away and hand me that spoon

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hmmmm...I kind of get what the op is saying. We graduated, worked and saved, married, worked and saved some more before having kids. We reckoned we could afford three kids and I was sterilised at 31 after my third child.

Well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

anyway, the birth rate is much higher in the immigrant population of this island than it is the indiginous populous.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Find me a job..... Any and i do mean any job that pays 45k in my area and ill take it yesterday. "

How many times *facepalm* show me a qoute saying you must earn 45k before you are allowed to reproduce.

Just for you so you don't have to scroll all the way up I said you almost need to to be comfortable.

This is due to tax. Nobody will pay you any more than you are trained and educated and work to receive.

The victim mentality is also prevalent here. Another thread

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the basis of this thread was drawn from here...

National Anthem of USSR: http://youtu.be/U06jlgpMtQs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I vaguely agree that people should only have children who can afford to support them (minus the people who fall onto hard times afterwards). Yet it is fundamental human right wishing to reproduce (whether naturally or assisted) and if we begin to discriminate against people who are poor, where will it end? Disabled people? Eugenics comes to mind here!

I don't think anyone's discriminating against people who are poor ! Just the reasons why we should pay for what someone else wants

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By *bony in IvoryCouple
over a year ago

Black&White Utopia

If you want to slow up the birth rate in this country even more, resulting in an ever increasing ageing population with higher taxes in order to pay for our pensions then sure."
... Every action has a reaction...

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By *octor DeleriumMan
over a year ago

Wellingborough

"How do you think this should be enforced?

Vasectomy s are reversible.

First pay cheque, stitch 'er back up doc "

Vasectomy should be regarded as irreversible, once two ejaculates have been shown devoid of spermatozoa.

Tubular damage and the benefits of the auto-immune system tend to render rejoining the pipe work unsuccessful.

Doctor Nasty

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By *rumCoupleCouple
over a year ago

birmingham

"more child care so they can find work?

THIS 110%

But it seems unworkable due to the number of those playing the system.

'Couldnt go to college Monday, I had a cough' types.

'Great Britain'

Yeah right"

There's something faintly surreal about paying someone else to look after your kids (which is work for them) so you can go out to work yourself. It suggests we value looking after children as the lowest value job.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

I think this is a 'don't post on my thread unless you agree' thread.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"more child care so they can find work?

THIS 110%

But it seems unworkable due to the number of those playing the system.

'Couldnt go to college Monday, I had a cough' types.

'Great Britain'

Yeah right

Not really au pairs younger childminders etc.

It's not a massively skilled job that requires years of education and on job training.

It just requires good nature and trustworthy moral fibre.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ahhh well, good thing this is all just internet waffle really.

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By *bony in IvoryCouple
over a year ago

Black&White Utopia

"more child care so they can find work?

THIS 110%

But it seems unworkable due to the number of those playing the system.

'Couldnt go to college Monday, I had a cough' types.

'Great Britain'

Yeah right

Not really au pairs younger childminders etc.

It's not a massively skilled job that requires years of education and on job training.

It just requires good nature and trustworthy moral fibre. "
Mary Poppins!?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"more child care so they can find work?

THIS 110%

But it seems unworkable due to the number of those playing the system.

'Couldnt go to college Monday, I had a cough' types.

'Great Britain'

Yeah right

well, unless you are involved in childcare, you wont realise how true your quote was.

the only way my ex could get off minimum wage was to get promotion

for parents that drop their kids off at 7 and pick them up 10 hours later, to take them home and put them to bed, having already been watered and fed at nursury, one has to woonder how much parenting is involved with modern day parents

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

£45k??

Im on about 14k after 23 years working at the same place.

Im doing a cracking job bringing my child up, money helps and is a bonus but we get by anyway

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

***steps in looks in thread...steps out***

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By *G CoupleCouple
over a year ago

kent

"Find me a job..... Any and i do mean any job that pays 45k in my area and ill take it yesterday.

How many times *facepalm* show me a qoute saying you must earn 45k before you are allowed to reproduce.

Just for you so you don't have to scroll all the way up I said you almost need to to be comfortable"

i thought you said its nigh on impossible to support children unless you was on a substantial wage of 45k+. im guessing you was using that figure as an example? what is a realistic figure?

its not anywhere near as high as that. i know i dont have to earn 45k to support children as i do actually support my children on a lot less.

also i was mearly pointing out that i would take a higher paid job if 1 was available.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"more child care so they can find work?

THIS 110%

But it seems unworkable due to the number of those playing the system.

'Couldnt go to college Monday, I had a cough' types.

'Great Britain'

Yeah right

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Funny ... I'm not here that often. This is my first log on today.

Have you really done a time and motion study of members forum usage ? Well done you.

I am interested in the thread. I've read every word of it.

Why do you assume I've never been banned ?

What do you assume I do 'all' the reporting?

I'm not the only person you've insulted otherwise I might take things a bit personal...

Your need to insult simply highlights your inability to enter into dialogue.

You do have hairy feet though, he's right there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"more child care so they can find work?

THIS 110%

But it seems unworkable due to the number of those playing the system.

'Couldnt go to college Monday, I had a cough' types.

'Great Britain'

Yeah right

Not really au pairs younger childminders etc.

It's not a massively skilled job that requires years of education and on job training.

It just requires good nature and trustworthy moral fibre. "

so what price do you put on someone raising your children for you?

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By *octor DeleriumMan
over a year ago

Wellingborough

"We don't have children by choice, everyone does have that right though we feel you should be allowed 1 that you can get help with ie benefit wise but anymore then the parents should support it......obviously not if you have a multiple birth.....there is no detterant to discourage people from churning out kid after kid after kid"

A sensible posting.

The State, however, is quite happy to remove money from you to 'support' those that have had children.

I have never had children but my brother, who is in the same profession and has, experiences a significantly higher standard of living.

Doctor Nasty

Not exactly existing in poverty

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A sensible posting.

The State, however, is quite happy to remove money from you to 'support' those that have had children.

I have never had children but my brother, who is in the same profession and has, experiences a significantly higher standard of living.

Doctor Nasty

Not exactly existing in poverty"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OP Several years ago I had it all, two older children and myself at university, my youngest in part-time private nursery care, my partner a successful architect with his day job and our own practice coming along nicely, all of us happy in a home we built ourselves.

Flash forward to the day he got knocked off his bike and killed, I was left alone my kids had no father and I contracted cancer, couldn't work had to sell the house, wind up the business as it was no use without an architect and try to survive on my own for the second time.

No matter how much you plan for the future and have insurance etc. life gets in the way. You can't say when you have kids, I'm working I have a husband, I have a secure life so lets go for it.

You can lose it all in the blink of an eye.

Divorce happens, death happens, redundancy happens, illness and misfortune happens.

Yes, I am a single mum on benefits.

One who worked all her life contributing to the welfare system and charities and also served Queen and country.

God forbid you ever have to walk a mile in a "doley's" shoes. I used to come out of that DWP office crying and ashamed feeling I had degraded myself by begging. Probably because at that time I thought I would be condemned by others such as yourself "for having got myself in that situation".

I have no such thoughts now. I still have my pride but I'm a humbler person for it.

I have discovered that very few single parents are the stereotypical teenage mums with a wastrel youth who fathered their children. Most are just like you and me, people down on their luck, not lifelong "doleys" ripping the piss out the system.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Well put Laine.

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

And me but through no fault of my own.

I have worked since I was 12 and only stopped to have kids and went back to work when they were of nursery age. I think now I deserve this time off as do others of similar situations.

I do however think if you have never worked and have no intention on doing so there should be a cap on how much you can claim to prevent this from happening.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"more child care so they can find work?

THIS 110%

But it seems unworkable due to the number of those playing the system.

'Couldnt go to college Monday, I had a cough' types.

'Great Britain'

Yeah right

well, unless you are involved in childcare, you wont realise how true your quote was.

the only way my ex could get off minimum wage was to get promotion

Personally speaking a great deal of parenting actually!!

I work to provide for my family and not be on the benefit system & I actually like working too.

My 2nd child was in nursery but I worked with them to create a home from home ~ they followed my routine for feeding, sleeping, potty training etc.

She wasn't there 24 hours a day so I still had to do all the things a stay at home parent does whilst juggling a career.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the figure of £45k seems very high ! lots of parents bring up children on a lot less.

OP- I can't agree, as it's unenforceable - what would you do - get all the unemployed ladies sterilised & the men to have a vasectomy ! They may be unemployed now , but looking for work. What about those that are unemployed due to long term health issues ?

At the end of the day , I wouldn't want to swap with a parent of lots of children surviving on benefits ! It's not all how the media betray it ! I wouldn't want us to go back to the days of the workhouse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And we could be like China. Walk past unwanted kids and start only wanting boys. Get a grip op. I'm sure some people only post ridiculous topics to get a rise. Bet your parents never earned 45 grand. And where would you have been then??????????

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And we could be like China. Walk past unwanted kids and start only wanting boys. Get a grip op. I'm sure some people only post ridiculous topics to get a rise. Bet your parents never earned 45 grand. And where would you have been then??????????"

......... a bit of a wankstain running down their legs.

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)

Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think there are way too many people full-stop so the less the world dangles a breeding carrot (whether that's a set of pots or welfare benefits) the better. The same can be said for encouraging propagation through religion.

A benefit for 2 children maximum seems reasonable, after that the welfare state is a safety net not an entitlement.

The previous poster who mentioned adopting existing children rather than recreating makes a valid point.

Other creatures on this little planet either have failed breeding seasons when conditions aren't right or they instinctively know not to breed.

We keep on spewing out humans when apparently we're the intelligent ones but food, energy and water are already fought over resources. As a nation increasingly reliant on importing food and energy we should be worried.

Massively veered off-topic, sorry.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Single parent and unemployed here

kind of agree with the 'if your out of work long term dont have them' but how would it be enforced.

China works a similar system. It can be enforced.

Addressing the issue of Chinese orphanages, the figure looks, to the layman, to be high, but consider that china has a third of the worlds population. A third.

Wrong.

It cost less to feed a child than a family.

The child can be instilled with a work ethic that long term unemployed parents will not be able to impress upon them

Wrong!! Having a child in care will cost more than a family gets on income support/jobseekers

Please quote you financial sources and statistics.

You are deluded if you actually think that. "

If your on income support its far less than they pay someone else to look after your child.. so sorry but it costs more to have a child looked after than they pay in benefits....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do "

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wind up merchant......

Ha ha wondered when you'd show up.

Try and stay on topic and not my profile please"

But you are a wind up merchant that is clear. I actually see your point on some of this. I have some real layabouts living

Above me and I know they have no intention of working. Too busy on their new.xbox.

I'm ex forces too pal and lack of support for veterans and priority given to less deserving types is not right.

However rather than spout shite on this forum which is read by a small minority of a minority group get yourself involved politically and do something about it if its that important.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion."

I guess this type if comment is where you get polar _iews. Should you conciously be able to choose to have the state pay for the children you have decided to bring into the world when you are capable of working to support them yourself?

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion."

You are right as I am a little better off not working but I have no intention of staying on benefit as I like to have things to do and am far from work shy

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

[Removed by poster at 01/04/14 18:17:11]

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Not sure any kind of forum insurance is gonna cover this one....

I'm pulling up a chair and getting the popcorn out

Join me on the sofa, it is so much comfier on here.

any brandy anywhere? I need a stiff one! Lol

I'm sure we could conjure up a stiff one between us.....come along Tina and I will budge up a bit

having a little "feel " of Tina's assets ... Are they real?!! Lol

Feel free

Anyone fancy ordering a takeout?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion.

Not fair on the kids to be left with strangers. they have to pay childcare anyway.

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By *iverpool LoverMan
over a year ago

liverpool

I think those of us in society who are less fortunate than others are already denied enough in life without being told they can't have a child too.

If that ever happens then we have failed as a species as no other animal/creature on earth has those restrictions.. come to think of it we are the only species that has to pay to live on this tiny blue planet in the vastness of the universe.

children need but a few things.

Shelter

food

clothing

but most of all love.

they dont need a tv, xbox, branded clothing etc, give a child love and he/she will grow into a respectful human being.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"anyway, the birth rate is much higher in the immigrant population of this island than it is the indiginous populous."

Pray tell where you obtained these figures or is that just your general impression?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I am not sure how much people get when getting benefits but as most say it isn't that much then how can anyone possibly afford to have more babies.

Obviously if people want to have more kids they should be able to, but I don't think they should get more benefits for them as it was their choice.

Disclaimer....this post does not say anyone who has kids and has the misfortune to end up on benefits should get no benefits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

as far as im aware its roughly

£20 per week in child benefit which every parent can claim

£65 Child tax credit (those parents earning under £40,000)

its approx £70 working tax credit if you did work.. if you dont work its about the same for an income support payment

so benefits wise theres no a lot inn it weather a person works or not

if you dont work you claim full housing ben and can apply for help with council tax.. if you do work you still might be eligable for help with rent and council tax.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion.

Not fair on the kids to be left with strangers. they have to pay childcare anyway."

But is it fair to expect the state to pay for that choice?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion.

Not fair on the kids to be left with strangers. they have to pay childcare anyway."

back in the 60's when I was born generally your mum either didn't work or gave up work when they had children, making do with one wage and child benefit.

nowadays it's not like that, women's money is counted towards the household budget, allowing families to make choices such as buying a home.

When I became pregnant I couldn't just give up my job and go on benefits as who would have paid my bills & mortgage?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion.

Not fair on the kids to be left with strangers. they have to pay childcare anyway.

But is it fair to expect the state to pay for that choice? "

No but lots of things in life arent fair are they.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion.

Not fair on the kids to be left with strangers. they have to pay childcare anyway.

back in the 60's when I was born generally your mum either didn't work or gave up work when they had children, making do with one wage and child benefit.

nowadays it's not like that, women's money is counted towards the household budget, allowing families to make choices such as buying a home.

When I became pregnant I couldn't just give up my job and go on benefits as who would have paid my bills & mortgage?!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion.

Not fair on the kids to be left with strangers. they have to pay childcare anyway.

But is it fair to expect the state to pay for that choice?

No but lots of things in life arent fair are they."

Agreed, many things are far from fair. Perhaps I should have asked if it was right for the state to provide in that situation.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

I don't want to pay for the workshy breeders but I won't punish their children.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion.

Not fair on the kids to be left with strangers. they have to pay childcare anyway.

back in the 60's when I was born generally your mum either didn't work or gave up work when they had children, making do with one wage and child benefit.

nowadays it's not like that, women's money is counted towards the household budget, allowing families to make choices such as buying a home.

When I became pregnant I couldn't just give up my job and go on benefits as who would have paid my bills & mortgage?!"

That special word again FAMILY.

My mum was in her twenties, widowed with two pre-school children, she did what most women did in those days. Worked full-time and had her mum and sisters look after us.

Fifty odd years later my daughter is similarly on her own, with a full-time career and her siblings and I help out as much as possible with child-care so she can finish her degree and keep working as well. Those same family members that others would rather not have/allow are the ones ensuring my daughter is not on benefits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion.

Not fair on the kids to be left with strangers. they have to pay childcare anyway.

back in the 60's when I was born generally your mum either didn't work or gave up work when they had children, making do with one wage and child benefit.

nowadays it's not like that, women's money is counted towards the household budget, allowing families to make choices such as buying a home.

When I became pregnant I couldn't just give up my job and go on benefits as who would have paid my bills & mortgage?!

That special word again FAMILY.

My mum was in her twenties, widowed with two pre-school children, she did what most women did in those days. Worked full-time and had her mum and sisters look after us.

I suspect many in our society would benefit from the sort of family love and support you describe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An ex customer of mine now apparently has nine kids by three different fathers and freely admits she's never done a day's work 'in her live.

The husbands from what I know are almost the same in the uwork stakes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion.

Not fair on the kids to be left with strangers. they have to pay childcare anyway.

back in the 60's when I was born generally your mum either didn't work or gave up work when they had children, making do with one wage and child benefit.

nowadays it's not like that, women's money is counted towards the household budget, allowing families to make choices such as buying a home.

When I became pregnant I couldn't just give up my job and go on benefits as who would have paid my bills & mortgage?!

That special word again FAMILY.

My mum was in her twenties, widowed with two pre-school children, she did what most women did in those days. Worked full-time and had her mum and sisters look after us.

I suspect many in our society would benefit from the sort of family love and support you describe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sometimes you just can't win. Uou get criticised for working and nog taking care of your own kids and you get criticised for staying home and living on benefits. What is a mother to do

If you already have kids, better to be on benefits and stay at home and look after them, just my opinion.

Not fair on the kids to be left with strangers. they have to pay childcare anyway.

back in the 60's when I was born generally your mum either didn't work or gave up work when they had children, making do with one wage and child benefit.

nowadays it's not like that, women's money is counted towards the household budget, allowing families to make choices such as buying a home.

When I became pregnant I couldn't just give up my job and go on benefits as who would have paid my bills & mortgage?!

That special word again FAMILY.

My mum was in her twenties, widowed with two pre-school children, she did what most women did in those days. Worked full-time and had her mum and sisters look after us.

I suspect many in our society would benefit from the sort of family love and support you describe

I don't know about that as statistically I'm a single mother on the dole with three kids from two different fathers.

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By *nfieldishCouple
over a year ago

Enfield

Child sharing.....I'm going to start an agency for child sharing where people with not much money can have a sprog for a certain amount each day, and say £8 per hour will be deducted from them or maybe £4 if they're on benefits...

This will be on a" round the clock" system ....so people with various shifts need not feel left out....

Please message for further details

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should couples where neither parent have a fulltime vocation or are long term unemployed be allowed to produce children?

I think it's become nigh on impossible for working parent/s who arnt on a substantial wage 45k + to support children due to the amount of tax we pay.

I'm aware this thread would be perhaps better received after 17:30, however I'm interested in all contributions.

Obviously where a parent/s has lost their employment 'through no fault of their own' redundancy etc are not the feature of this thread.

Nowhere in your OP do you suggest abortions/ euthanasia/ whatever else you have been accused of. Interesting how people jump to conclusions. You have only asked a question.

I don't know the answer. Responsibility for your own family perhaps. Kids will always come off worse with some 'parents'. I use the term 'parents' very loosely.

Interesting debate."

Those were my thoughts, too, and he did express the subject as a debate. His replies have been reasoned. And while I do not go along with his implicit suggestions, I fully understand the issue. Unfortunately, I think reaching any form of solution would go way over the boundary of acceptability in terms of our cultural and moral limits. I do not think I could live with the pain that would result in such a policy. And I do not have children.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Child sharing.....I'm going to start an agency for child sharing where people with not much money can have a sprog for a certain amount each day, and say £8 per hour will be deducted from them or maybe £4 if they're on benefits...

This will be on a" round the clock" system ....so people with various shifts need not feel left out....

Please message for further details"

Do you take donations? I have a hormonal teenager here if anyone fancies a go at parenting one of them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think people who sit at home churning children out never worked never will work who choose to have children with men that don't support should have their benefits capped at 2 children. It is a well known fact it is more profitable to have 3 children. I think if it is capped they will think twice before reproducing. Condoms, injections pill, morning after pill are all readily available so if they want a large family let them support them.

I am a single mum of two work full time. I recently went for a higher paid job working an extra 7 hours a week even though the salary is an extra 6k a year after the bit of help I get is taken awY and childcare goes up I will be £150 a month better off. Pride allows me to do this and I think the benefit system has allowed people to no longer have pride and created a whole new class of people who think it is acceptable to do your weekly shop at asda in a onsie and will never be able to afford to work as they would have to earn a ridiculous amount to break even of their benefits.

(closed, thread got too big)

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