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Teachers striking

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Ok, guess we're going to be hearing a lot about this today.

Just thought I'd put the other side of the _iewpoint.

Why do people think it's fair and right to strike these days? I understand union movements to protect workers against unfair, dangerous, discriminatory environments, heck, even 'slave labour'. But, the teaching profession is well paid generally (significantly above poverty), the benefits are still good, despite protestations. Let's take the pension for example. Ok, employee rates are increasing. But, they need to cover the shortfall. If a scheme doesn't have the money going in to balance the books, then something has to give, surely. Anyway,- teachers will be paying upto 10% into a pension, most significantly less than that. The employer (the taxpayer) is already contributing another 14% to it (and this is going to rise too in the next couple of years mind you). For every year worked as a teacher, they will get 1/48th of their salary as a pension, inflation linked, even if they leave the profession. Add to this, if they retire due to ill health, the pension is 'fast forwarded' as if they had retired at the normal retirement age with credit for all of those extra years too.

Did I mention teachers get a paid day off work too to move house if they want it?

Or that the sick pay scheme is so generous that after, I think 3 years (although may be 5) that they get 6 months full pay and 6 months half pay. No wonder absence rates in the profession are so high, where's the incentive to return to work, and you get the unions advising staff to go sick, because of this benefit.

Or that schools can only ask teachers to work 1,265 hours a year (that's a 35 hour work week during term time). I know teachers do more.... But then, so do an awful lot of other professions, all for no overtime (a teacher once said to me it's the only profession that doesn't get paid overtime! Pah!)

Or the performance related pay system that's being introduced that allows schools to pay great teachers more money. Mind you, anyone on a PRP scheme in the private sector would have hysterics if they read what passes as a PRP scheme in education.

Fundamentally, and I have got slightly off point. Surely an employer has the right to set terms and conditions for employment, including remuneration. No one has a right to a job. The employer has to be able to change the way they employ people to react to the changing economic realities. If you don't like the changes, go find a different job. It's the reality in the private sector.

I seriously think teachers believe that the general public, en masse, have sympathy for their plight and actions. I'd say they're deluded

And, just for the record, teachers do have a very tough job,- I for one couldn't do it, and I respect enormously those that do, but.....

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By *lassyandadventurousMan
over a year ago

England and Wales

they are taking the mickey out of us all and our kids even more so

disgrace that they are going on strike today

more holidays than any other profession...etc etc etc

bunch of lazy sods out for themselves

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I deliberately didn't raise holidays. They're on the public record and known to everyone. And, teachers pay is somewhat pro-rated down to cover the 36 teaching weeks and paid over a 12 month period. So, I'm not going there with holidays. And frankly, given the job they do, they need them....

But, pro rata an average teachers salary upto a 48 working week year and it really is a very well paid profession

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I imagine you're able to write this and others to read it because a teacher taught you.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd like to see you spend a week in education. It may open your eyes

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By *ervyboyMan
over a year ago

port noarlunga

Obviously not a teacher or truly know a hard working teacher. 35 hour week in term time!!!!! Bullshit a teacher will often do a 60 hour week in order to just get the job done let alone produce quality learning experiences for the hundreds of students they deal with every day. All I can say is pay peanuts and get monkeys. In reality the private sector offers a hell of a lot more hence the reasons why the education system can not retain

staff.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Yes. But, I fail to see what that has to do with my point about the right to down tools and walk out on a job in this day and age when the workplace is neither dangerous, discriminatory, slavish, or similarly other appalling condition.

Striking is like taking your bat and ball home just because you're not winning at a game in the park. It's hardly an adult way to resolve issues through a professional environment, where there has to be rules set by the employer

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

And... For the record..... I work in education.... And no, I'm not striking today

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And... For the record..... I work in education.... And no, I'm not striking today"

Ditto...

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By *ervyboyMan
over a year ago

port noarlunga

Striking is a legitimate way of protesting. General public only get pissed of because THEY have to actually look after their own children for a day.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Perhaps if Mr Gove was willing to listen to the teaching profession instead of refusing, such action might not have been necessary. Why should an elected MP refuse to discuss matters pertaining to those who may have voted him in?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Perhaps if Mr Gove was willing to listen to the teaching profession instead of refusing, such action might not have been necessary. Why should an elected MP refuse to discuss matters pertaining to those who may have voted him in?"

He was elected by the people of his constituency to be their MP. He wasn't voted in as Sec of State. He was appointed by the Prime Minister.

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By *ervyboyMan
over a year ago

port noarlunga

So will there be no teachers in his constituency??????

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"Perhaps if Mr Gove was willing to listen to the teaching profession instead of refusing, such action might not have been necessary. Why should an elected MP refuse to discuss matters pertaining to those who may have voted him in?

He was elected by the people of his constituency to be their MP. He wasn't voted in as Sec of State. He was appointed by the Prime Minister.

I imagine a small number of his constituents are teachers and voted for him. Even if it were only one, he is a representative and should listen. Why shouldn't he listen? Now he is seeing the result of his arrogance. Did a teacher teach you to read? You should thank them, not berate them.

"

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"So will there be no teachers in his constituency??????"

Yes, quite. A needlessly emotive and facile argument.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"So will there be no teachers in his constituency??????"

Of course there are, but the job of the populace is to elect an MP, not the Sec of State for education. So the premise of the original comment on voter representation was wrong.

And besides, we're off the point again.

Can see I'm going to be popular today

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We seem to live in a world where it's the norm and accepted to not be content with what we have...

and unfortunately we are passing that attitude on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have an incredible amount of respect for teachers and support their strike. At the end of the day they're striking for our children's futures!

They don't get paid today, but many of them will actually be using the day to catch up on their workload.

I'm just grateful for an extra day with my baby today... I miss her when she's at school!

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

This was my original argument....."Perhaps if Mr Gove was willing to listen to the teaching profession instead of refusing, such action might not have been necessary."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And... For the record..... I work in education.... And no, I'm not striking today

Ditto..."

Ditto

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 26/03/14 07:14:07]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Many working families work 60 hour weeks 52 weeks a year on minimum wage in jobs with very little prospects. If they even dared to complain about their job they would be out on their ear and replaced quickly!

They are throwing a paddy because they cannot get their own way! A great example to set to the children they teach 

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By *rsK69Woman
over a year ago

Neath

I have 2 children in school today. And one off. Teachers in different unions. I have one smug little bugger and 2 not so happy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I have 2 children in school today. And one off. Teachers in different unions. I have one smug little bugger and 2 not so happy "

Yeah my daughter can't understand why her friends in other schools aren't off.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Striking is a legitimate way of protesting. General public only get pissed of because THEY have to actually look after their own children for a day."

Any worker can and should be allowed to strike.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

Any worker can and should be allowed to strike."

Again, not true.

To strike, you have to be a member of a recognised trade union, and, your employer has to recognise your union. The vast majority of people in this country do not have this privileged position.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Never a strike during holidays, of which teachers get the most of any profession in the country. Excuses every time for an over paid job with very few results, "we spend so much time working at home? " or is it just the wrong people in the job these days?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Any worker can and should be allowed to strike.

Again, not true.

To strike, you have to be a member of a recognised trade union, and, your employer has to recognise your union. The vast majority of people in this country do not have this privileged position. "

Thanks to maggie thatcher. My point is that any worker should have the right to strike.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Striking is a legitimate way of protesting. General public only get pissed of because THEY have to actually look after their own children for a day."

Or maybe parents cannot afford a day off work to look after their children and they cannot afford to pay for alternative childcare! Many would love the luxury to stay at home today but with budgets spread thinly already its not affordable.

Maybe some school aged children need a strict routine, deviate from that and you pay for it for weeks!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The vast majority of people do have the right to protest by offering their resignation and choosing to work for someone else.

In relation to the last post, I don't think teachers are overpaid. They do a very tough job, and as earlier, you won't find me criticising their holidays. Want their holidays, become a teacher.

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By *utty_JiggleCouple
over a year ago

Black Country


"I have an incredible amount of respect for teachers and support their strike. At the end of the day they're striking for our children's futures!

They don't get paid today, but many of them will actually be using the day to catch up on their workload.

I'm just grateful for an extra day with my baby today... I miss her when she's at school!"

I used to have the 'finish and 3.30.. Loads of holiday' but until you sit back and see the work a good teacher puts in you realise they work a lot harder than you think. Most weekends are spent either marking or planning for the next weeks lessons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's okay folks, soon your 11year olds will be in lesson til 5.30 every day, in school til 18, have much less holidays, you'll be fined when attendance drops below 85%, you'll be fined for taking them out of school on holiday in the longer termtimes, your kids will face even more testing and exams with less opportunities for resits, and the best teachers will be heading off to the school down the road that pays better leaving you with the younger, cheaper, less experienced teachers in yours.

Unless someone stands up to all tgese govt plans.....

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)


"they are taking the mickey out of us all and our kids even more so

disgrace that they are going on strike today

more holidays than any other profession...etc etc etc

bunch of lazy sods out for themselves

"

Teachers are so far from lazy. My best friend is a science teacher and she works harder than anyone else I know. She goes above and beyond to help choldren get a decent education.

Your words are disgraceful and you need to hide your head in shame

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)


"I deliberately didn't raise holidays. They're on the public record and known to everyone. And, teachers pay is somewhat pro-rated down to cover the 36 teaching weeks and paid over a 12 month period. So, I'm not going there with holidays. And frankly, given the job they do, they need them....

But, pro rata an average teachers salary upto a 48 working week year and it really is a very well paid profession "

They do so need those holidays. I wonder Has anyone who moans tried to teach a class of 30 plus unruly teens. Something tells me not

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By *adyGardenWoman
over a year ago

LONDON (se)


"And... For the record..... I work in education.... And no, I'm not striking today"

I bet you would be if your union was. Not all teachers are on strike. We all have a right to strike if changes in the workplace are not what you agreed when you started

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I imagine you're able to write this and others to read it because a teacher taught you....."

Says it all really

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By *rsK69Woman
over a year ago

Neath


"I imagine you're able to write this and others to read it because a teacher taught you.....

Says it all really "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And... For the record..... I work in education.... And no, I'm not striking today

I bet you would be if your union was. Not all teachers are on strike. We all have a right to strike if changes in the workplace are not what you agreed when you started"

I notice they said they work in education. Not that they teach.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And... For the record..... I work in education.... And no, I'm not striking today"

What do you do in education?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My ex gfs sister is a teacher and her exact words went as follows "I don't know what teachers complain about, we are paid well and we know about the financial structure and we know about the hours when we take the job"

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By *oudnproudWoman
over a year ago

penrith

I also agree with there strike and will enjoy a lovely day with ny son.

His teacher explained it to her class... saying shes striking for the following reasons.

all about the age of retirement.

She wants to be able for the childrens sake, for them to have a young fitter teacher to run around a school field in PE lessons.. rather than at 60+ having to jujust stand there and shout orders.

The children all understood why she is striking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's no reason at all that a fit 60 year old couldn't run excellent P.E. lessons.

There is a concern that fit teachers of all ages will soon be too burned out to teach anything of any use. The unions haven't got that across too well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I also agree with there strike and will enjoy a lovely day with ny son.

His teacher explained it to her class... saying shes striking for the following reasons.

all about the age of retirement.

She wants to be able for the childrens sake, for them to have a young fitter teacher to run around a school field in PE lessons.. rather than at 60+ having to jujust stand there and shout orders.

The children all understood why she is striking."

My mums a 68 year old auxiliary nurse in A&E. If she's lucky she'll be able to afford to retire at 72 (by afford I mean immediately be living hand to mouth) which is her plan, there are hundreds if not thousands like her in a job that's very physical and just as vital. I'm not convinced this is a valid reason for strike action.

We're all going to have to face working longer. Teaching is a special skill and it's a job most of us couldn't and wouldn't do but teachers aren't therefore a special case.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My ex gfs sister is a teacher and her exact words went as follows "I don't know what teachers complain about, we are paid well and we know about the financial structure and we know about the hours when we take the job" "

That's fine for new teachers but for those they got into teaching and now the rules are changing for them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Striking is a legitimate way of protesting. General public only get pissed of because THEY have to actually look after their own children for a day."

No they get pissed off because they work hard for the money they earn and because of a lack of notice from some schools they are unable to book they day off as holiday so have to take an unpaid day off making them financially worse off.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Teaching is a special skill and it's a job most of us couldn't and wouldn't do but teachers aren't therefore a special case."

Yes they are and so are nurses.

But the retirement issue is nonsense. So long as people are fit and able there's no reason for them not to continue and if anything experience and wisdom should count for a lot more in both those sectors.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"

Any worker can and should be allowed to strike.

Again, not true.

To strike, you have to be a member of a recognised trade union, and, your employer has to recognise your union. The vast majority of people in this country do not have this privileged position. "

That, to some extent, is their choice. If enough of the workforce in any company joined or formed a union then the management would get to a point where they do choose to recognise the negotiating body. It's a 'privilege' people have chosen to forego and hen complain when others have retained the ability to negotiate en masse.

The teachers I see are required to be at school and working at 8am and required to be on line to answer pupil homework queries until 9pm. They post homework topics online during the holidays too! The primary school my choir rehearses at has teachers working right up to when we leave at 9.30pm preparing their teaching materials and doing all those odd jobs like displaying the drawings and project work.

I wouldn't be able to keep up that level of work until I was 68 and that's why they are striking.

Teachers leave the profession early now for a reason so we lose that depth of knowledge, experience and maturity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I imagine you're able to write this and others to read it because a teacher taught you....."

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

they do a great job are they special: No

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"Striking is a legitimate way of protesting. General public only get pissed of because THEY have to actually look after their own children for a day.

No they get pissed off because they work hard for the money they earn and because of a lack of notice from some schools they are unable to book they day off as holiday so have to take an unpaid day off making them financially worse off. "

If you work for an organisation that penalizes you financially for childcare, then an option could be to find a job that allows you to have paid childcare for unforeseen circumstances. Or maybe join a union.

Teachers are striking because Gove is unwilling to consider their request to discuss his changes. All he is willing to do is discuss the implementation of the changes with civil servants, not the teachers which it affects.

If teaching is such a marvelous profession to get into with long holidays, then why is there a shortage of teachers?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I do think teachers take a lot of stick and do put some hours in. Hands up to them .

On the other hand ...... They took the job on . They knew what's expected.

Swings and roundabouts . Same as any job out there. We all have to do things we don't like , or excepts things that are unfair.

My eyes....... Get on with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Teaching is a special skill and it's a job most of us couldn't and wouldn't do but teachers aren't therefore a special case.

Yes they are and so are nurses.

But the retirement issue is nonsense. So long as people are fit and able there's no reason for them not to continue and if anything experience and wisdom should count for a lot more in both those sectors."

Sorry I don't think they are special. Nobodies job should elevate them to a status where they can retire years before the rest of tax paying society and largely at the expense of the rest of us. We work, we hopefully receive a fair salary for the service we are provide and if we're lucky we have a generous tax-payer subsidised pension. (I said generous not gold-plated, that's the realm of the MP gold-plated)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Teaching is a special skill and it's a job most of us couldn't and wouldn't do but teachers aren't therefore a special case.

Yes they are and so are nurses.

But the retirement issue is nonsense. So long as people are fit and able there's no reason for them not to continue and if anything experience and wisdom should count for a lot more in both those sectors.

Sorry I don't think they are special. Nobodies job should elevate them to a status where they can retire years before the rest of tax paying society and largely at the expense of the rest of us. We work, we hopefully receive a fair salary for the service we are provide and if we're lucky we have a generous tax-payer subsidised pension. (I said generous not gold-plated, that's the realm of the MP gold-plated)"

I said the retirement issue is nonsense. The unions have focussed on the wrong issues.

As for not thinking they're special, let's hope children in their care disagree.

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By *ot30scoupleCouple
over a year ago

Oxford, London

Currently, a worryingly high percentage of new teachers leave the profession within five years. Many choose to teach in private schools. This trend will ultimately have a detrimental effect on education. Teachers are not on strike because they are 'lazy'; they are concerned about being able to do the best for all their children. Fewer hours of 'PPA' will necessarily mean that fewer books are marked. Those who have never taught may well not appreciate how long it takes to mark the work of the 120 or so children we might teach every day.

I worry about the rhetoric which regards teachers as striking because they are 'out for themselves'. Children who listen to this are implicitly learning not to respect teachers. In countries I've taught in where the profession is respected, rather than denigrated by the media and by some parents, schools are often rather more successful.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire


"Currently, a worryingly high percentage of new teachers leave the profession within five years. Many choose to teach in private schools. This trend will ultimately have a detrimental effect on education. Teachers are not on strike because they are 'lazy'; they are concerned about being able to do the best for all their children. Fewer hours of 'PPA' will necessarily mean that fewer books are marked. Those who have never taught may well not appreciate how long it takes to mark the work of the 120 or so children we might teach every day.

I worry about the rhetoric which regards teachers as striking because they are 'out for themselves'. Children who listen to this are implicitly learning not to respect teachers. In countries I've taught in where the profession is respected, rather than denigrated by the media and by some parents, schools are often rather more successful. "

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By *oudnproudWoman
over a year ago

penrith


"

Any worker can and should be allowed to strike.

Again, not true.

To strike, you have to be a member of a recognised trade union, and, your employer has to recognise your union. The vast majority of people in this country do not have this privileged position.

That, to some extent, is their choice. If enough of the workforce in any company joined or formed a union then the management would get to a point where they do choose to recognise the negotiating body. It's a 'privilege' people have chosen to forego and hen complain when others have retained the ability to negotiate en masse.

The teachers I see are required to be at school and working at 8am and required to be on line to answer pupil homework queries until 9pm. They post homework topics online during the holidays too! The primary school my choir rehearses at has teachers working right up to when we leave at 9.30pm preparing their teaching materials and doing all those odd jobs like displaying the drawings and project work.

I wouldn't be able to keep up that level of work until I was 68 and that's why they are striking.

Teachers leave the profession early now for a reason so we lose that depth of knowledge, experience and maturity.

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Currently, a worryingly high percentage of new teachers leave the profession within five years. Many choose to teach in private schools. This trend will ultimately have a detrimental effect on education. Teachers are not on strike because they are 'lazy'; they are concerned about being able to do the best for all their children. Fewer hours of 'PPA' will necessarily mean that fewer books are marked. Those who have never taught may well not appreciate how long it takes to mark the work of the 120 or so children we might teach every day.

I worry about the rhetoric which regards teachers as striking because they are 'out for themselves'. Children who listen to this are implicitly learning not to respect teachers. In countries I've taught in where the profession is respected, rather than denigrated by the media and by some parents, schools are often rather more successful. "

I don't think teachers are under-worked at all (although some will be lazy because some people are lazy and some will invariably be better able to organise themselves than others, just like the rest of society, they're people, not saints) it's the inability to look outside the bubble of teaching that I often notice, although perhaps that's a defence from being under attack. Millions of people outside the teaching profession also work extremely long hours in jobs that are difficult, stressful and often completely joyless. I've noticed most teachers do say they have a job they love.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Somehow those strikes always mean extra expense for those of us who work hard to provide for our family. I plan to send a lrtter to the school that i reserve the right to take my children out of school whenever i please to compensate for that extra expense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 26/03/14 10:17:44]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting logic!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Normal economic logic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I have 2 children in school today. And one off. Teachers in different unions. I have one smug little bugger and 2 not so happy "

Same here, although my eldests school has remained open for all year 10, 11 & 12 pupils as its getting closer to exam times!!

My youngest is super smug & has a day of baking & dog walking planned

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That having a day off school is costing you extra money, therefore you reserve the 'right' to take another day off at further expense...

ok

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"That having a day off school is costing you extra money, therefore you reserve the 'right' to take another day off at further expense...

ok"

If it helps me save money, of course.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There seem to be more concerns at the economic impacts than kids education. Interesting, and sad.

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By *oudnproudWoman
over a year ago

penrith

I love having my son off of school... and if it means I get to spend extra quality time with him cos the teachers are striking then thank you!

I understand why they are striking and respect them for doing so.

On that note me, my son and the dog are off on a walk around the river!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Striking is a legitimate way of protesting. General public only get pissed of because THEY have to actually look after their own children for a day."

One of the most fucking stupid statements i've read for a long time.

Parents face a fine of upto £120 per child per parent for unauthorised absences, I'd like to see teachers face the same fine per child they affect through striking.

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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago

East Manchester

As an ex teacher who got out because it wasn't for me I have a different perspective from those outside the profession.

The average day starts at 8am there is usually a staff meeting either for the department taken by the head of department or the headmaster/deputy for school as a whole.

students arrive for registration by 8.45/9.00 and on their way to their first lessons by 9.05.

Not all teachers teach the first lesson, the unions negotiated a free period every day for every teacher to do administrative work marking etc. so in a 5 lesson day 1 free period each day equals a whole days worth of lessons each week not actually teaching, most teachers of my acquaintance spent the time reading the papers and drinking coffee and did no work in the "free period" whatsoever preferring to take it home.

Each school expected every teacher to undergo CPD (continual professional development), this is taking up to a week off per year to go on a skills refresher course and learn new techniques or methodology, the days on these courses started at 9am and finished at 3 with 45min lunch break and numerous coffee breaks.

In addition 3 times per year the head closed the school for teacher training seminars and teachers gathered at specific schools according to the subject being taught and swopped ideas everyone usually getting there late and departing early, (one I attended lasted 2 hours including a 20min coffee break). Next if you consider school holidays, they get statutory 28 days per year like everyone else but not to be taken in term time, but schools are only open 38 weeks per year which if you do the maths equates to 190 days per year that the school is doing its business of actual teaching students, reduce this by the one day per week a teacher has been given off for administration purposes and a teacher only spends 152 days teaching equivalent to 31 weeks of actual daily teaching.

Too many teachers have no idea about the world outside teaching, they are usually mainstream educationally groomed with no real world experience, they have gone from primary to secondary school and then sixth form college, from there its usual to university to get a degree followed by teacher training and then back into school as a teacher, never having had actual experience in the private sector.

One teacher I worked under earned £60K per year after 20 years of teaching and believed they could walk into a job in the private sector earning the same amount with no problem.

Education is not about learning it is about money, young teachers have taken over and have over-inflated ideas of their own importance and entitlement, head's recruit them because they are either related to existing staff members or of the governors and can be used for leverage, and their lower salaries leave more cash for school projects.

Headmasters and ofsted are the real villains of education, neither are fit for purpose,the tick box mentality and heads who want super schools with 3000+ students to justify £140,000 salaries whilst at the same time blaming others for their lack of leadership.

I have seen good teachers driven out by egotistical headmasters who wanted younger more malleable staff who they could intimidate into doing things older staff would tell them to get stuffed for.

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By *anny PepperoniMan
over a year ago

Matlock


"That having a day off school is costing you extra money, therefore you reserve the 'right' to take another day off at further expense...

ok

If it helps me save money, of course. "

But you said it costs you!

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By *ot30scoupleCouple
over a year ago

Oxford, London

I agree; it's a wonderful job! I feel very lucky to be a teacher. I also thoroughly agree that many in work, and out of work, have it really tough. So, we should strive to make conditions better for all workers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Striking is a legitimate way of protesting. General public only get pissed of because THEY have to actually look after their own children for a day.

One of the most fucking stupid statements i've read for a long time.

Parents face a fine of upto £120 per child per parent for unauthorised absences, I'd like to see teachers face the same fine per child they affect through striking. "

They don't get paid for the day. Does that make you feel a little better?

As for a 'fucking stupid statement' - how come that does seem to be what's most bothering people?

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

Those facts are bullshit. Most teachers are in at 7.30 to 8am and begin work at that time. Teachers ARE NOT entitled to one free lesson a day. They are permitted only 3 hours per week PPA time to plan, mark and do admin. This is of course not nearly enough.

As for teachers reading newspapers and drnking coffee. Rubbish. Completely unheard of in EVERY school I have worked in for the last 20 years.

By all means have an opinion about the strike but DO NOT give a false image of what a teacher's life actually is.

The DfE have just published the average hours teachers put in weekly - between 55 and 60 hours. No time for browsing papers and sitting on your arse drinking coffee. Also current figures show that 40% of teachers QUIT in their first 5 years.

There is currently a recruitment crisis. If teaching is such a soft option why is that?

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I remember seeing a GCSE History text book with a photo of a girl selling matchs front the 1930's or something and the caption read 'match girls go on strike'. That struck me as funny even then.

Parents could consider that having an unexpected day with their children is something to be pleased about and treasured, not an opportunity to moan about added expense.

I've made my own point of _iew adequately clear so will leave the thread now. Refer yourselves to my earlier post about being able to read

and write.

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By *xxwiganMan
over a year ago

LEIGH

Would people object if teachers strike action brought about smaller class sizes?

This would benefit pupils and make up for the education lost on strike days.

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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago

East Manchester

You don't say you are a teacher just that you worked in schools, and most does not mean all!

I AM A TEACHER, I worked for 23 Years in 9 different schools and what I said is true for my experience. If they are in at 7.30 what are they doing? students are not in until 9.00.

NO teacher I have ever met worked a full day of face to face contact every day, each gets the equivalent of a free period every day.

Statistics and so called facts are manipulated every day to prove what the compiler wants them to say.

55 hours per week during term time may be true in some schools but there are only 38 weeks in total per academic year.

If they quit after 5 years then why and not when is the question that needs answering, it's still the same job after 1 never mind 5 years.

What recruitment crises? universities turn out 150% of the required number of teachers every year, its just that cost rather than ability is the main factor in recruitment.

There are mature students trying to get into teaching who are being ignored because govt regulations require time spent in industry is rewarded by higher starting salaries AND in some cases where there is a subject shortage a golden handshake, schools do not want to spend the extra so these people who have dropped out of good careers get the cold shoulder in preference to someone who is cheaper.

Schools prefer to buy in supply teachers and negotiate a low wage with the agencies, rather than pay the rate they get someone who can be let go at a days notice and only gets work as/when required, ofsted are being fobbed off with excuses for the high number of teachers on supply whilst the school says it cannot recruit qualified teachers.

My brother's wife works in a school in Manchester as its business manager, she told me what criteria are used and how things are done to reduce spending and recruitment ploys to keep costs down.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Even if you WERE a teacher you seem to have a very limited perspective of what is involved for many teachers. Show me the primary teacher that gets a free period every day?

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By *xxwiganMan
over a year ago

LEIGH


"

NO teacher I have ever met worked a full day of face to face contact every day, each gets the equivalent of a free period every day.

"

Subtle change of wording to what you originally said.

You ask why are teachers in school at 7:30 when pupils don't arrive until 9:00 ( no school I know has pupils starting this late). An intelligent guy like you should know the answer to that.

If you use the arguement that teachers are only working if the are pupils in front of them. Should firemen only be paid when they are working with the public and not developing their skills.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

I am in and start work at 7.30. I go home at around 4.30. Work at home from around 6 until 8 or 9pm EVERY DAY! I also work during lunch which is only 30 mins not a lunch HOUR. Sundays I work 4-5 hours sometimes more.

I DO NOT stop all day. Often my lunch is half eaten and comes back home with me. I eat breakfast at my desk, lunch at my desk and my evening meal at home whilst planning or marking.

I have no idea what you taught or where you worked but clearly you either did not notice a lot of the 'hidden' work teachers do or things were very lax.

I teach GCSE English and Literature, though I have also had to teach Geography, History, RE, PSHE and ICT in the past in schools which were/are in very deprived areas with some extremely challenging children. Believe me we work astonishingly hard, feel under constant criticism and scrutiny, unappreciated utterly and dismayed at some areas of the media portraying us as lazy, feckless, over paid shirkers. I cannot fit any more working hours into my day without keeling over. And that is true of all the staff at the school I work in.

Your image of teaching is not true of what is happening in schools up and down the country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"students arrive for registration by 8.45/9.00 and on their way to their first lessons by 9.05"

What level of school is this applicable to? It is not so in my daughters school, she is in first year of senior school and all pupils have to be in for 0820hrs for registration and at their desks by 0845hrs.

I've read all the posts here, (yep - had a bit of time on my hands for a change!) and there are some very interesting and valid points.

All I wish to add is that I am working full time and cannot easily take a day off due to the nature of my job. My wife works also and she asked for time off but again due the nature of her job she couldn't get time off today. This means that our daughter is home alone until she goes out to meet up with friends at lunch time and go to a park. The kids do that as most shops in the town ban schoolchildren from the premises if they are in groups of more than 2. We are fortunate today that the weather is fine in our area and that our daughter is capable of looking after herself and does so quite well if she has to, but why should she have to do that?

It's about time that all the teachers' unions took stock of the effects of these strikes during term time, and consider what effect they have on pupils and parents.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge


""students arrive for registration by 8.45/9.00 and on their way to their first lessons by 9.05"

What level of school is this applicable to? It is not so in my daughters school, she is in first year of senior school and all pupils have to be in for 0820hrs for registration and at their desks by 0845hrs.

I've read all the posts here, (yep - had a bit of time on my hands for a change!) and there are some very interesting and valid points.

All I wish to add is that I am working full time and cannot easily take a day off due to the nature of my job. My wife works also and she asked for time off but again due the nature of her job she couldn't get time off today. This means that our daughter is home alone until she goes out to meet up with friends at lunch time and go to a park. The kids do that as most shops in the town ban schoolchildren from the premises if they are in groups of more than 2. We are fortunate today that the weather is fine in our area and that our daughter is capable of looking after herself and does so quite well if she has to, but why should she have to do that?

It's about time that all the teachers' unions took stock of the effects of these strikes during term time, and consider what effect they have on pupils and parents.

"

So they should strike during holidays then?

Teachers are not employed as childminders. Sorry if that is a problem today. I too am a parent and have had to deal with random school closures. It isn't easy but it is only a day.

If Gove had agreed to talk to teachers the strike could have been called off. He has refused to do so. So, regrettably, the strike went ahead.

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By *ervyboyMan
over a year ago

port noarlunga

Obviously you are totally unaware of the number of parents that simply see school as free child care. If this is not so why do so many parents send their children to school when they are ill????? Is this because they might get fined? No, it is because THEY won't or can't have a day off work. Do they consider the health of other hundreds of people they come in to contact with? I don't think so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You don't say you are a teacher just that you worked in schools, and most does not mean all!

I AM A TEACHER, I worked for 23 Years in 9 different schools and what I said is true for my experience. If they are in at 7.30 what are they doing? students are not in until 9.00.

NO teacher I have ever met worked a full day of face to face contact every day, each gets the equivalent of a free period every day.

Statistics and so called facts are manipulated every day to prove what the compiler wants them to say.

55 hours per week during term time may be true in some schools but there are only 38 weeks in total per academic year.

If they quit after 5 years then why and not when is the question that needs answering, it's still the same job after 1 never mind 5 years.

What recruitment crises? universities turn out 150% of the required number of teachers every year, its just that cost rather than ability is the main factor in recruitment.

There are mature students trying to get into teaching who are being ignored because govt regulations require time spent in industry is rewarded by higher starting salaries AND in some cases where there is a subject shortage a golden handshake, schools do not want to spend the extra so these people who have dropped out of good careers get the cold shoulder in preference to someone who is cheaper.

Schools prefer to buy in supply teachers and negotiate a low wage with the agencies, rather than pay the rate they get someone who can be let go at a days notice and only gets work as/when required, ofsted are being fobbed off with excuses for the high number of teachers on supply whilst the school says it cannot recruit qualified teachers.

My brother's wife works in a school in Manchester as its business manager, she told me what criteria are used and how things are done to reduce spending and recruitment ploys to keep costs down."

I think you've made a few mistakes there: PPA time is 10% of teaching timetable....that's all the non-contact time a normal teacher is allowed...some school leaders illegally ignore this, to squeeze more out of their teachers.

Perhaps, since PPA time isn't so substantial that teachers are coming in at 7.30am.

Some schools require their teachers to come in on Saturdays..or stay till 5pm onwards.

Universities may be churning out trainees...but evidently they get burnt out...since 40% are leaving before they even reach the upper pay scale.

Remember it's within 5 years, not AT 5 years.

A group of people got together to challenge the state that keeps moving the goal posts with regards to pay, conditions of work and pensions....

Fair play to them. In order to protest, all they can do is withdraw their labour... If they had the power, money and influence to lobby mp's, donate money to political parties, go to the right fundraiser or ask a favour off the right people, I'm sure they would...but not everyone is able to so that...especially not the working class.

Ultimately, strikes have shown to work (as have party donations!), so good for them.

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By *xxwiganMan
over a year ago

LEIGH


"Obviously you are totally unaware of the number of parents that simply see school as free child care. If this is not so why do so many parents send their children to school when they are ill????? Is this because they might get fined? No, it is because THEY won't or can't have a day off work. Do they consider the health of other hundreds of people they come in to contact with? I don't think so."

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By *eMontresMan
over a year ago

Halesowen

For the record, I could read and write before I started school, my parents taught me, as I have done with my children. They like me, also had some fantastic teachers, and some rubbish ones

I know teachers work long hours during term time, and I would not teach secondary.

I used to work 50 to 60 hours a week in the private sector, 50 weeks a year, though in my case, it enabled me to "retire" in my 40's (took a gap year, took a few more, did another degree and got by odd jobbing and gigging).

I now teach HE, part time only, and only get paid for the hours I work.

My ex is an assistant head of a primary school on £45k. She has one day off a week for prep, when she goes shopping and lunches with her friends. Her English, Maths and Science are all shocking, though there's very little content to teach at that level, just ABC, 123. She joined the profession explicitly because of the pay and holidays. Before that, she was a typist. Given her skill and knowledge level it is unlikely she could get a job in the private sector on any more than half what she earns now, and she'd have to work full time.

So with respect to the strike, I think that many teachers do not know when they're well off.

My heart goes out to secondary teachers, classes full of un ruly teenagers, no effective sanctions, and having to try and teach to some depth. I wouldn't do it, but again, compared to the private sector for equivalent skill and hours, it's extremely well paid, with good pensions.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"..........

If Gove had agreed to talk to teachers the strike could have been called off. He has refused to do so. So, regrettably, the strike went ahead. "

Gove, as we know from the other thread, is a cunt.

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By *eordie JoJoTV/TS
over a year ago

Newcastle

Fantastic isn't it ....... What did you learn at school today kids .......... Well we've learnt that if you don't get your own way with things..... Stamp your feet! .... Go on strike....... ....... Great british curriculum ...... Disgrace!!!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Fantastic isn't it ....... What did you learn at school today kids .......... Well we've learnt that if you don't get your own way with things..... Stamp your feet! .... Go on strike....... ....... Great british curriculum ...... Disgrace!!! "

As in Stand up for Your Rights?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"For the record, I could read and write before I started school, my parents taught me, as I have done with my children. They like me, also had some fantastic teachers, and some rubbish ones

I know teachers work long hours during term time, and I would not teach secondary.

I used to work 50 to 60 hours a week in the private sector, 50 weeks a year, though in my case, it enabled me to "retire" in my 40's (took a gap year, took a few more, did another degree and got by odd jobbing and gigging).

I now teach HE, part time only, and only get paid for the hours I work.

My ex is an assistant head of a primary school on £45k. She has one day off a week for prep, when she goes shopping and lunches with her friends. Her English, Maths and Science are all shocking, though there's very little content to teach at that level, just ABC, 123. She joined the profession explicitly because of the pay and holidays. Before that, she was a typist. Given her skill and knowledge level it is unlikely she could get a job in the private sector on any more than half what she earns now, and she'd have to work full time.

So with respect to the strike, I think that many teachers do not know when they're well off.

My heart goes out to secondary teachers, classes full of un ruly teenagers, no effective sanctions, and having to try and teach to some depth. I wouldn't do it, but again, compared to the private sector for equivalent skill and hours, it's extremely

ell paid, with good pensions."

Where is this primary school with a typist assistant head who only works four days a week and numeracy and literacy consist of 123 and ABC? It must surely be in special measures their last ofsted must have been shocking!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Fantastic isn't it ....... What did you learn at school today kids .......... Well we've learnt that if you don't get your own way with things..... Stamp your feet! .... Go on strike....... ....... Great british curriculum ...... Disgrace!!! "

Better than learning to isolate yourselves and let the state walk over you break agreements it makes every few years. Hopefully the future generations won't be as passive and full of apathy as the current one clearly is.

Rich people bribe...working class get together and withdraw the only thing they have of value..their labour.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Fantastic isn't it ....... What did you learn at school today kids .......... Well we've learnt that if you don't get your own way with things..... Stamp your feet! .... Go on strike....... ....... Great british curriculum ...... Disgrace!!! "

What do you suggest as an alternative to the current curriculum? We didn't rely on school and teachers to teach our children values we tried to do it ourselves and one thing we instilled into them was to stand up for yourself, when all your rights have been removed it's too late.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

My heart goes out to secondary teachers, classes full of un ruly teenagers, no effective sanctions, and having to try and teach to some depth. I wouldn't do it, but again, compared to the private sector for equivalent skill and hours, it's extremely well paid, with good pensions."

A)the teachers are striking so more isn't taken away from them

B)assistant head out shopping?? No union would support that kind of attitude toward the job of education young minds... That's actually pathetic behaviour..I'm embarrassed for you.

C) evidently the perks of teacher aren't that amazing if 40% teachers are leaving within 5 years of starting. There's clearly a tipping point where the incentives just aren't enough...so they probably go into typing since that's all their capable of doing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apologies for errors in post...using a phone when annoyed doesn't help one's ability to remain coherent!

I guess I couldn't even cut it as a typist

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By *anny PepperoniMan
over a year ago

Matlock


"Fantastic isn't it ....... What did you learn at school today kids .......... Well we've learnt that if you don't get your own way with things..... Stamp your feet! .... Go on strike....... ....... Great british curriculum ...... Disgrace!!!

What do you suggest as an alternative to the current curriculum? We didn't rely on school and teachers to teach our children values we tried to do it ourselves and one thing we instilled into them was to stand up for yourself, when all your rights have been removed it's too late."

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Apologies for errors in post...using a phone when annoyed doesn't help one's ability to remain coherent!

I guess I couldn't even cut it as a typist "

Lol! I knew the post you we're referring to, annoyed the hell out of me too.

Your typing is fine you will probably be assistant head of a primary school where kids can only count as far as 3 next week

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By *eMontresMan
over a year ago

Halesowen


"

Where is this primary school with a typist assistant head who only works four days a week and numeracy and literacy consist of 123 and ABC? It must surely be in special measures their last ofsted must have been shocking!

"

It's in the Midlands, they get great ofsted as they know how to play the system. They made her head of IT, because she can use a word processor, they have a cupboard full of unused macbooks because no one knows what to do with them. Many primary teachers I have encountered have what I would consider very low levels of academic knowledge, though I accept, that not much is required at primary level. But even basics like grammar, spelling, punctuation and mental arithmetic up to the 12 times table, seem to be areas in which they are woefully lacking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For the record, I could read and write before I started school, my parents taught me, as I have done with my children. They like me, also had some fantastic teachers, and some rubbish ones

I know teachers work long hours during term time, and I would not teach secondary.

I used to work 50 to 60 hours a week in the private sector, 50 weeks a year, though in my case, it enabled me to "retire" in my 40's (took a gap year, took a few more, did another degree and got by odd jobbing and gigging).

I now teach HE, part time only, and only get paid for the hours I work.

My ex is an assistant head of a primary school on £45k. She has one day off a week for prep, when she goes shopping and lunches with her friends. Her English, Maths and Science are all shocking, though there's very little content to teach at that level, just ABC, 123. She joined the profession explicitly because of the pay and holidays. Before that, she was a typist. Given her skill and knowledge level it is unlikely she could get a job in the private sector on any more than half what she earns now, and she'd have to work full time.

So with respect to the strike, I think that many teachers do not know when they're well off.

My heart goes out to secondary teachers, classes full of un ruly teenagers, no effective sanctions, and having to try and teach to some depth. I wouldn't do it, but again, compared to the private sector for equivalent skill and hours, it's extremely well paid, with good pensions."

How touching.

And such a deep insight into the complexities of teaching "ABC and 123".

I have a "friend" in the private sector who shafted other people to work for them for a pittance to fund their own future lavish lifestyle. They achieved financial success but could never cope with the demands of working in teaching. My heart goes out to them too as they seek to find something worthwhile to do with their spare time..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Apologies for errors in post...using a phone when annoyed doesn't help one's ability to remain coherent!

I guess I couldn't even cut it as a typist

Lol! I knew the post you we're referring to, annoyed the hell out of me too.

Your typing is fine you will probably be assistant head of a primary school where kids can only count as far as 3 next week "

Lol, you're right, a vacancy is very likely to appear for such a position.

The poor kids!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""students arrive for registration by 8.45/9.00 and on their way to their first lessons by 9.05"

What level of school is this applicable to? It is not so in my daughters school, she is in first year of senior school and all pupils have to be in for 0820hrs for registration and at their desks by 0845hrs.

I've read all the posts here, (yep - had a bit of time on my hands for a change!) and there are some very interesting and valid points.

All I wish to add is that I am working full time and cannot easily take a day off due to the nature of my job. My wife works also and she asked for time off but again due the nature of her job she couldn't get time off today. This means that our daughter is home alone until she goes out to meet up with friends at lunch time and go to a park. The kids do that as most shops in the town ban schoolchildren from the premises if they are in groups of more than 2. We are fortunate today that the weather is fine in our area and that our daughter is capable of looking after herself and does so quite well if she has to, but why should she have to do that?

It's about time that all the teachers' unions took stock of the effects of these strikes during term time, and consider what effect they have on pupils and parents.

So they should strike during holidays then?

Teachers are not employed as childminders. Sorry if that is a problem today. I too am a parent and have had to deal with random school closures. It isn't easy but it is only a day.

If Gove had agreed to talk to teachers the strike could have been called off. He has refused to do so. So, regrettably, the strike went ahead. "

Teachers are not child minders nor should they be expected to be. In the case of our daughter, we are lucky that she can be trusted with a key to the house and that she is sensible enough to keep out of trouble. That isn't always the case for other people, and although some parents may be able to make other arrangements for their children during strike day, there are others who simply can't and possibly suffer the consequences.

As for 'it's only a day' - yes that is the case today but it is in some cases a day of hardship and for others a day of inconvenience.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's in the Midlands, they get great ofsted as they know how to play the system.

I accept, that not much is required at primary level."

Those statements say rather more about your ignorance than anything else.

You will however be able to make an absolute fortune by offering consultancy to teach schools how to 'play the system' for OFSTED..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A day that could have been avoided had the Secretary of State listened.

As a result of his deaf ears, it may not be the last day such action takes place, though hopefully he'll actually come to talk next time

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For the record, I could read and write before I started school, my parents taught me, as I have done with my children. They like me, also had some fantastic teachers, and some rubbish ones

I know teachers work long hours during term time, and I would not teach secondary.

I used to work 50 to 60 hours a week in the private sector, 50 weeks a year, though in my case, it enabled me to "retire" in my 40's (took a gap year, took a few more, did another degree and got by odd jobbing and gigging).

I now teach HE, part time only, and only get paid for the hours I work.

My ex is an assistant head of a primary school on £45k. She has one day off a week for prep, when she goes shopping and lunches with her friends. Her English, Maths and Science are all shocking, though there's very little content to teach at that level, just ABC, 123. She joined the profession explicitly because of the pay and holidays. Before that, she was a typist. Given her skill and knowledge level it is unlikely she could get a job in the private sector on any more than half what she earns now, and she'd have to work full time.

So with respect to the strike, I think that many teachers do not know when they're well off.

My heart goes out to secondary teachers, classes full of un ruly teenagers, no effective sanctions, and having to try and teach to some depth. I wouldn't do it, but again, compared to the private sector for equivalent skill and hours, it's extremely well paid, with good pensions."

I wasn't going to comment on this thread but I have to put you right. At Primary level there is a lot more to learn than you have suggested. My 6 year old grandson learns about verbs and adverbs,nouns and pronouns. He reads books a 10 year old would read and can do arithmetic of a child 2 years older. A teacher and support assistant taught him all those things and more. Not forgetting the Sciences and RE,PE,History etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Striking is a legitimate way of protesting. General public only get pissed of because THEY have to actually look after their own children for a day.

One of the most fucking stupid statements i've read for a long time.

Parents face a fine of upto £120 per child per parent for unauthorised absences, I'd like to see teachers face the same fine per child they affect through striking.

They don't get paid for the day. Does that make you feel a little better?

As for a 'fucking stupid statement' - how come that does seem to be what's most bothering people?"

No & If parents have to work then they end up having to take a days sick leave when their not fucking sick, though for families that don't have both parents who work then it shouldn't be a problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's in the Midlands, they get great ofsted as they know how to play the system.

I accept, that not much is required at primary level.

Those statements say rather more about your ignorance than anything else.

You will however be able to make an absolute fortune by offering consultancy to teach schools how to 'play the system' for OFSTED.."

It's easy...make sure every book is marked, every lesson involves singing and dancing, all the results are wonderful and every child makes x levels of progress.... Did u say that it's easy? Hmm

The midlands school of playing the ofsted system lol

Such ignorance

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"

Where is this primary school with a typist assistant head who only works four days a week and numeracy and literacy consist of 123 and ABC? It must surely be in special measures their last ofsted must have been shocking!

It's in the Midlands, they get great ofsted as they know how to play the system. They made her head of IT, because she can use a word processor, they have a cupboard full of unused macbooks because no one knows what to do with them. Many primary teachers I have encountered have what I would consider very low levels of academic knowledge, though I accept, that not much is required at primary level. But even basics like grammar, spelling, punctuation and mental arithmetic up to the 12 times table, seem to be areas in which they are woefully lacking."

So is she head of IT or assistant head?

Your post shows that you know very little about primary education and even less about ofsted. However if what you say is true you should be reporting the school.

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By *innamon!Woman
over a year ago

no matter

Roads were quiet .. bring it on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Striking is a legitimate way of protesting. General public only get pissed of because THEY have to actually look after their own children for a day.

One of the most fucking stupid statements i've read for a long time.

Parents face a fine of upto £120 per child per parent for unauthorised absences, I'd like to see teachers face the same fine per child they affect through striking.

They don't get paid for the day. Does that make you feel a little better?

As for a 'fucking stupid statement' - how come that does seem to be what's most bothering people?

No & If parents have to work then they end up having to take a days sick leave when their not fucking sick, though for families that don't have both parents who work then it shouldn't be a problem."

That's why the strike a last resort and it's happened 5 times in roughly 10 years?

When it becomes clear that it is the only way politicians will listen..it's a logical course if action.

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By *anny PepperoniMan
over a year ago

Matlock


"Striking is a legitimate way of protesting. General public only get pissed of because THEY have to actually look after their own children for a day.

One of the most fucking stupid statements i've read for a long time.

Parents face a fine of upto £120 per child per parent for unauthorised absences, I'd like to see teachers face the same fine per child they affect through striking.

They don't get paid for the day. Does that make you feel a little better?

As for a 'fucking stupid statement' - how come that does seem to be what's most bothering people?

No & If parents have to work then they end up having to take a days sick leave when their not fucking sick, though for families that don't have both parents who work then it shouldn't be a problem."

They're not their. Well it is a teachers thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And... For the record..... I work in education.... And no, I'm not striking today

I bet you would be if your union was. Not all teachers are on strike. We all have a right to strike if changes in the workplace are not what you agreed when you started

I notice they said they work in education. Not that they teach."

It would not be politic and very indiscreet to say on a site like this ' I am a teacher' with today's judgemental attitudes in the press about this lifestyle....

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Can I also just say that there is no point going on strike unless it causes inconvenience.

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By *anny PepperoniMan
over a year ago

Matlock


"Can I also just say that there is no point going on strike unless it causes inconvenience."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I worked in a Secondary school for 7 years. I taught,I am not a teacher

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can I also just say that there is no point going on strike unless it causes inconvenience.

"

which is why i chuckle when teachers strike, i have no kids

i chuckle when london tube drivers strike, i dont live there nor use it

chuckle when binmen strike, my bin is never full, and its they that have to work their arses off trying to catch up

in fact, there is very few services i rely on day to day that means i would be put out by a strike.

i love modern society lol

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By *anny PepperoniMan
over a year ago

Matlock


"Can I also just say that there is no point going on strike unless it causes inconvenience.

which is why i chuckle when teachers strike, i have no kids

i chuckle when london tube drivers strike, i dont live there nor use it

chuckle when binmen strike, my bin is never full, and its they that have to work their arses off trying to catch up

in fact, there is very few services i rely on day to day that means i would be put out by a strike.

i love modern society lol"

Would you chuckle if your house was on fire and the fire brigade were on strike? Just cos it doesn't affect you directly doesn't make it less important.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

fucked my plans up for this afternoon well and truly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'd like to see you spend a week in education. It may open your eyes"

I do work in education and i think the teachers are taking the p**s !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Many working families work 60 hour weeks 52 weeks a year on minimum wage in jobs with very little prospects. If they even dared to complain about their job they would be out on their ear and replaced quickly!

They are throwing a paddy because they cannot get their own way! A great example to set to the children they teach "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can I also just say that there is no point going on strike unless it causes inconvenience.

which is why i chuckle when teachers strike, i have no kids

i chuckle when london tube drivers strike, i dont live there nor use it

chuckle when binmen strike, my bin is never full, and its they that have to work their arses off trying to catch up

in fact, there is very few services i rely on day to day that means i would be put out by a strike.

i love modern society lol

Would you chuckle if your house was on fire and the fire brigade were on strike? Just cos it doesn't affect you directly doesn't make it less important. "

Though most of the aforementioned strikes don't affect me either...I didn't find myself chuckling... I admired the solidarity....the collective effort.

Not all aspects of modern society are worth loving, but some remain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can I also just say that there is no point going on strike unless it causes inconvenience.

which is why i chuckle when teachers strike, i have no kids

i chuckle when london tube drivers strike, i dont live there nor use it

chuckle when binmen strike, my bin is never full, and its they that have to work their arses off trying to catch up

in fact, there is very few services i rely on day to day that means i would be put out by a strike.

i love modern society lol

Would you chuckle if your house was on fire and the fire brigade were on strike? Just cos it doesn't affect you directly doesn't make it less important. "

probably (council house lol)

and not only that, but im almost certain there would be grounds to sue the firebrigade service for not doing what they are paid for, by me in my council tax.

i would just refuse to leave the property, hence putting my life in danger, and thisly causing them to HAVE to deal with it, as this is the agreement they have when they strike.

and, lets be honest, how often does my house burn down?

touch wood, not once yet

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

oh, and most firemen would be too busy on here and POF to do anything anyway lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok, guess we're going to be hearing a lot about this today.

Just thought I'd put the other side of the _iewpoint.

Why do people think it's fair and right to strike these days? I understand union movements to protect workers against unfair, dangerous, discriminatory environments, heck, even 'slave labour'. But, the teaching profession is well paid generally (significantly above poverty), the benefits are still good, despite protestations. Let's take the pension for example. Ok, employee rates are increasing. But, they need to cover the shortfall. If a scheme doesn't have the money going in to balance the books, then something has to give, surely. Anyway,- teachers will be paying upto 10% into a pension, most significantly less than that. The employer (the taxpayer) is already contributing another 14% to it (and this is going to rise too in the next couple of years mind you). For every year worked as a teacher, they will get 1/48th of their salary as a pension, inflation linked, even if they leave the profession. Add to this, if they retire due to ill health, the pension is 'fast forwarded' as if they had retired at the normal retirement age with credit for all of those extra years too.

Did I mention teachers get a paid day off work too to move house if they want it?

Or that the sick pay scheme is so generous that after, I think 3 years (although may be 5) that they get 6 months full pay and 6 months half pay. No wonder absence rates in the profession are so high, where's the incentive to return to work, and you get the unions advising staff to go sick, because of this benefit.

Or that schools can only ask teachers to work 1,265 hours a year (that's a 35 hour work week during term time). I know teachers do more.... But then, so do an awful lot of other professions, all for no overtime (a teacher once said to me it's the only profession that doesn't get paid overtime! Pah!)

Or the performance related pay system that's being introduced that allows schools to pay great teachers more money. Mind you, anyone on a PRP scheme in the private sector would have hysterics if they read what passes as a PRP scheme in education.

Fundamentally, and I have got slightly off point. Surely an employer has the right to set terms and conditions for employment, including remuneration. No one has a right to a job. The employer has to be able to change the way they employ people to react to the changing economic realities. If you don't like the changes, go find a different job. It's the reality in the private sector.

I seriously think teachers believe that the general public, en masse, have sympathy for their plight and actions. I'd say they're deluded

And, just for the record, teachers do have a very tough job,- I for one couldn't do it, and I respect enormously those that do, but..... "
What a bitter person !!!! The jist is I don't get these benefits why should teachers !!!!! I have family members who are teachers and I can assure the OP they would not consider strike action unless there was no other way of convaying the message !!!!!

I get similar benefits to the teachers and I have them because they were hard fought for !!!! So if anyone wants the same benefits you have to fight for them !!!!!! rant over

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By *anny PepperoniMan
over a year ago

Matlock


"Can I also just say that there is no point going on strike unless it causes inconvenience.

which is why i chuckle when teachers strike, i have no kids

i chuckle when london tube drivers strike, i dont live there nor use it

chuckle when binmen strike, my bin is never full, and its they that have to work their arses off trying to catch up

in fact, there is very few services i rely on day to day that means i would be put out by a strike.

i love modern society lol

Would you chuckle if your house was on fire and the fire brigade were on strike? Just cos it doesn't affect you directly doesn't make it less important.

probably (council house lol)

and not only that, but im almost certain there would be grounds to sue the firebrigade service for not doing what they are paid for, by me in my council tax.

i would just refuse to leave the property, hence putting my life in danger, and thisly causing them to HAVE to deal with it, as this is the agreement they have when they strike.

and, lets be honest, how often does my house burn down?

touch wood, not once yet"

That's ok then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Many working families work 60 hour weeks 52 weeks a year on minimum wage in jobs with very little prospects. If they even dared to complain about their job they would be out on their ear and replaced quickly!

They are throwing a paddy because they cannot get their own way! A great example to set to the children they teach 

"

If teachers were to complain in isolation, the same would happen to them too...so instead they got together, shared the burden.

Standing together for change is not a bad example really.... Bankers lobby, working class folk strike and more power to them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My sisters friend has an ex who once went out with someone who's brother had a mate that was a head teacher. He used to be a postman but was fed up of getting up early so became a headmaster. He said it's the easiest job in the world and all he does all day is play Xbox and drink cider.

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By *anny PepperoniMan
over a year ago

Matlock


"My sisters friend has an ex who once went out with someone who's brother had a mate that was a head teacher. He used to be a postman but was fed up of getting up early so became a headmaster. He said it's the easiest job in the world and all he does all day is play Xbox and drink cider. "

I think he was head at our school. He took us down the pub at lunch time and passed a spliff round on Wednesdays

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My sisters friend has an ex who once went out with someone who's brother had a mate that was a head teacher. He used to be a postman but was fed up of getting up early so became a headmaster. He said it's the easiest job in the world and all he does all day is play Xbox and drink cider.

I think he was head at our school. He took us down the pub at lunch time and passed a spliff round on Wednesdays"

well thats worth striking for

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My sisters friend has an ex who once went out with someone who's brother had a mate that was a head teacher. He used to be a postman but was fed up of getting up early so became a headmaster. He said it's the easiest job in the world and all he does all day is play Xbox and drink cider. "

Sounds overqualified - is he head of IT if he can use an Xbox?

I met a man with a dog this morning who has a great Auntie with a cousin (twice removed) who works in education, (head of root vegetable maintenance I believe). They see stupid, lazy teachers everyday and would never consider studying and getting qualified to join them. It would be too easy a job, after all how hard can it be to teach future counters of carrots?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"A day that could have been avoided had the Secretary of State listened.

As a result of his deaf ears, it may not be the last day such action takes place, though hopefully he'll actually come to talk next time "

Gove doesn't want to listen. He wants people at each others throats.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"A day that could have been avoided had the Secretary of State listened.

As a result of his deaf ears, it may not be the last day such action takes place, though hopefully he'll actually come to talk next time

Gove doesn't want to listen. He wants people at each others throats."

Sadly he and others like him are succeeding. One thing that should be on the national curriculum is teaching people to think independently but that will never happen, governing a nation of people who all think for themselves isn't something politicians relish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And... For the record..... I work in education.... And no, I'm not striking today

Ditto..."

Me too but I'm not a teacher and we had to go in still even though only year 11 and year 6 were in. I have two school jobs.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"My sisters friend has an ex who once went out with someone who's brother had a mate that was a head teacher. He used to be a postman but was fed up of getting up early so became a headmaster. He said it's the easiest job in the world and all he does all day is play Xbox and drink cider.

I think he was head at our school. He took us down the pub at lunch time and passed a spliff round on Wednesdays"

Only Wednesdays? Ofsted would have something to say about that, he must have tricked them it should be every fourth Monday too.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge


"Many working families work 60 hour weeks 52 weeks a year on minimum wage in jobs with very little prospects. If they even dared to complain about their job they would be out on their ear and replaced quickly!

They are throwing a paddy because they cannot get their own way! A great example to set to the children they teach 

"

I used to work for minimum wage. Then decided to go and get qualified which took me 5 years and meant a huge amount of debt. So, for all those who use the 'lots of people get minimum wage and work long hours' I ask - what would be the incentive if well qualified people could be treated as unqualified? Do we not need skilled and valued professionals in front of our children?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Striking is a legitimate way of protesting. General public only get pissed of because THEY have to actually look after their own children for a day."

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Many working families work 60 hour weeks 52 weeks a year on minimum wage in jobs with very little prospects. If they even dared to complain about their job they would be out on their ear and replaced quickly!

They are throwing a paddy because they cannot get their own way! A great example to set to the children they teach 

I used to work for minimum wage. Then decided to go and get qualified which took me 5 years and meant a huge amount of debt. So, for all those who use the 'lots of people get minimum wage and work long hours' I ask - what would be the incentive if well qualified people could be treated as unqualified? Do we not need skilled and valued professionals in front of our children?"

We do. However the welfare of children is bottom of the list for many, lots of people want to be two income families but want childminders to look after their children as cheaply as possible, they want teachers to be responsible not only for their academic education but their moral education too but they want it cheaply not thinking that children are quite literally our future and those responsible for their care and education should be valued and well recompensed.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"For the record, I could read and write before I started school, my parents taught me, as I have done with my children. They like me, also had some fantastic teachers, and some rubbish ones

I know teachers work long hours during term time, and I would not teach secondary.

I used to work 50 to 60 hours a week in the private sector, 50 weeks a year, though in my case, it enabled me to "retire" in my 40's (took a gap year, took a few more, did another degree and got by odd jobbing and gigging).

I now teach HE, part time only, and only get paid for the hours I work.

My ex is an assistant head of a primary school on £45k. She has one day off a week for prep, when she goes shopping and lunches with her friends. Her English, Maths and Science are all shocking, though there's very little content to teach at that level, just ABC, 123. She joined the profession explicitly because of the pay and holidays. Before that, she was a typist. Given her skill and knowledge level it is unlikely she could get a job in the private sector on any more than half what she earns now, and she'd have to work full time.

So with respect to the strike, I think that many teachers do not know when they're well off.

My heart goes out to secondary teachers, classes full of un ruly teenagers, no effective sanctions, and having to try and teach to some depth. I wouldn't do it, but again, compared to the private sector for equivalent skill and hours, it's extremely

ell paid, with good pensions.

Where is this primary school with a typist assistant head who only works four days a week and numeracy and literacy consist of 123 and ABC? It must surely be in special measures their last ofsted must have been shocking!

"

You omitted to hear the bitterness after the word 'ex'.

I ignored most of the content for that reason

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I see a lot of worm like envy in this thread. If you want 'long holiday's and all the other perks, benefits and fat pay packet, then become a teacher.

The NUT called a ballot and the members voted for strike action because Gove won't listen.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"I'd like to see you spend a week in education. It may open your eyes

I do work in education and i think the teachers are taking the p**s !!"

Is that you Mr. Gove ?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"For the record, I could read and write before I started school, my parents taught me, as I have done with my children. They like me, also had some fantastic teachers, and some rubbish ones

I know teachers work long hours during term time, and I would not teach secondary.

I used to work 50 to 60 hours a week in the private sector, 50 weeks a year, though in my case, it enabled me to "retire" in my 40's (took a gap year, took a few more, did another degree and got by odd jobbing and gigging).

I now teach HE, part time only, and only get paid for the hours I work.

My ex is an assistant head of a primary school on £45k. She has one day off a week for prep, when she goes shopping and lunches with her friends. Her English, Maths and Science are all shocking, though there's very little content to teach at that level, just ABC, 123. She joined the profession explicitly because of the pay and holidays. Before that, she was a typist. Given her skill and knowledge level it is unlikely she could get a job in the private sector on any more than half what she earns now, and she'd have to work full time.

So with respect to the strike, I think that many teachers do not know when they're well off.

My heart goes out to secondary teachers, classes full of un ruly teenagers, no effective sanctions, and having to try and teach to some depth. I wouldn't do it, but again, compared to the private sector for equivalent skill and hours, it's extremely

ell paid, with good pensions.

Where is this primary school with a typist assistant head who only works four days a week and numeracy and literacy consist of 123 and ABC? It must surely be in special measures their last ofsted must have been shocking!

You omitted to hear the bitterness after the word 'ex'.

I ignored most of the content for that reason

"

Oh I heard it loud and clear chose to ignore it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I haven't even read all this thread. I got about a third down and was sickened and shocked at some of the comments. My mums a teacher. 35 hours? My mum is there till gone 5 every day and then works from home till 10 most days! Without teachers you wouldn't be reading this thread or writing your disgraceful comments! They deserve more money, would even go as far to say they should be some of the highest paid in the country. Without them, there would be no doctors to treat you when you were sick, and no lawyers to help you when you needed it.

Lauz

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By *oudnproudWoman
over a year ago

penrith


"I haven't even read all this thread. I got about a third down and was sickened and shocked at some of the comments. My mums a teacher. 35 hours? My mum is there till gone 5 every day and then works from home till 10 most days! Without teachers you wouldn't be reading this thread or writing your disgraceful comments! They deserve more money, would even go as far to say they should be some of the highest paid in the country. Without them, there would be no doctors to treat you when you were sick, and no lawyers to help you when you needed it.

Lauz "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whether you agree with teachers striking or not and the reasons why what we should all remember is they have a democratic right to do so and the day that is taken away will be a sad day for workers in this country

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By *rtemisiaWoman
over a year ago

Norwich


"Many working families work 60 hour weeks 52 weeks a year on minimum wage in jobs with very little prospects. If they even dared to complain about their job they would be out on their ear and replaced quickly!

They are throwing a paddy because they cannot get their own way! A great example to set to the children they teach "

Surely this is an argument for everyone's right to strike?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Whether you agree with teachers striking or not and the reasons why what we should all remember is they have a democratic right to do so and the day that is taken away will be a sad day for workers in this country"

It would mean an end to democracy (such as it is) but a lot of people don't think that far ahead or even realise what it would mean. It reminds of that quotation the gist of which is I kept quiet when they came for other people and now they're coming for me there's no one left to speak up.

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By *rtemisiaWoman
over a year ago

Norwich


"My sisters friend has an ex who once went out with someone who's brother had a mate that was a head teacher. He used to be a postman but was fed up of getting up early so became a headmaster. He said it's the easiest job in the world and all he does all day is play Xbox and drink cider.

I think he was head at our school. He took us down the pub at lunch time and passed a spliff round on Wednesdays

Only Wednesdays? Ofsted would have something to say about that, he must have tricked them it should be every fourth Monday too."

How many schools only have a part-time head? A school needs a strong lead, with a personality to match. I know of a few schools where the head is only in for a few hours a week, and the kids always see the Deputy Head as the main authority figure. This can't be right

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"My sisters friend has an ex who once went out with someone who's brother had a mate that was a head teacher. He used to be a postman but was fed up of getting up early so became a headmaster. He said it's the easiest job in the world and all he does all day is play Xbox and drink cider.

I think he was head at our school. He took us down the pub at lunch time and passed a spliff round on Wednesdays

Only Wednesdays? Ofsted would have something to say about that, he must have tricked them it should be every fourth Monday too.

How many schools only have a part-time head? A school needs a strong lead, with a personality to match. I know of a few schools where the head is only in for a few hours a week, and the kids always see the Deputy Head as the main authority figure. This can't be right "

Really! I haven't heard of this before which schools are they?

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"For the record, I could read and write before I started school, my parents taught me, as I have done with my children. They like me, also had some fantastic teachers, and some rubbish ones

I know teachers work long hours during term time, and I would not teach secondary.

I used to work 50 to 60 hours a week in the private sector, 50 weeks a year, though in my case, it enabled me to "retire" in my 40's (took a gap year, took a few more, did another degree and got by odd jobbing and gigging).

I now teach HE, part time only, and only get paid for the hours I work.

My ex is an assistant head of a primary school on £45k. She has one day off a week for prep, when she goes shopping and lunches with her friends. Her English, Maths and Science are all shocking, though there's very little content to teach at that level, just ABC, 123. She joined the profession explicitly because of the pay and holidays. Before that, she was a typist. Given her skill and knowledge level it is unlikely she could get a job in the private sector on any more than half what she earns now, and she'd have to work full time.

So with respect to the strike, I think that many teachers do not know when they're well off.

My heart goes out to secondary teachers, classes full of un ruly teenagers, no effective sanctions, and having to try and teach to some depth. I wouldn't do it, but again, compared to the private sector for equivalent skill and hours, it's extremely

ell paid, with good pensions.

Where is this primary school with a typist assistant head who only works four days a week and numeracy and literacy consist of 123 and ABC? It must surely be in special measures their last ofsted must have been shocking!

You omitted to hear the bitterness after the word 'ex'.

I ignored most of the content for that reason

"

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Interesting to note two of the most criticised (on here) sectors of the workforce are tube workers and teachers.

Both well unionised and both enjoying good pay and conditions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Interesting to note two of the most criticised (on here) sectors of the workforce are tube workers and teachers.

Both well unionised and both enjoying good pay and conditions."

It is strange to see jealousy rear it's ugly head on a site such as this.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Interesting to note two of the most criticised (on here) sectors of the workforce are tube workers and teachers.

Both well unionised and both enjoying good pay and conditions.

It is strange to see jealousy rear it's ugly head on a site such as this. "

There's no shortage of jealousy on Fab.

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By *anny PepperoniMan
over a year ago

Matlock


"

You omitted to hear the bitterness after the word 'ex'.

I ignored most of the content for that reason

"

Me too

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Interesting to note two of the most criticised (on here) sectors of the workforce are tube workers and teachers.

Both well unionised and both enjoying good pay and conditions.

It is strange to see jealousy rear it's ugly head on a site such as this.

There's no shortage of jealousy on Fab."

That's because we went on strike for our right to be jealous

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I haven't even read all this thread. I got about a third down and was sickened and shocked at some of the comments. My mums a teacher. 35 hours? My mum is there till gone 5 every day and then works from home till 10 most days! Without teachers you wouldn't be reading this thread or writing your disgraceful comments! They deserve more money, would even go as far to say they should be some of the highest paid in the country. Without them, there would be no doctors to treat you when you were sick, and no lawyers to help you when you needed it.

Lauz "

well said. I actually qualified as a teacher but soon decided it wasn't for me because of all the extra work involved. It is a profession that you have to be completely dedicated to and I'm basically a lazy person and the draw of the 9 to 5 office job was much more appealing. I'm staggered at the amount of people who think teachers are lazy and greedy.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"Whether you agree with teachers striking or not and the reasons why what we should all remember is they have a democratic right to do so and the day that is taken away will be a sad day for workers in this country

It would mean an end to democracy (such as it is) but a lot of people don't think that far ahead or even realise what it would mean. It reminds of that

quotation the gist of which is I kept quiet

when they came for other people and

now they're coming for me there's no

one left to speak up."

This one?

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me."

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


".........I'm staggered at the amount of people who think teachers are lazy and greedy. "

We (the public) see the good stuff about teaching. The hours, the holidays , the salaries, the pension etc.

We don't see the early starts, late nights, constant monitoring, constant criticism and the risk of false accusation.

Teachers do a hard job and deserve the rewards they receive.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Whether you agree with teachers striking or not and the reasons why what we should all remember is they have a democratic right to do so and the day that is taken away will be a sad day for workers in this country

It would mean an end to democracy (such as it is) but a lot of people don't think that far ahead or even realise what it would mean. It reminds of that

quotation the gist of which is I kept quiet

when they came for other people and

now they're coming for me there's no

one left to speak up.

This one?

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me." "

That's the one Steve, thank you

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


".........I'm staggered at the amount of people who think teachers are lazy and greedy.

We (the public) see the good stuff about teaching. The hours, the holidays , the salaries, the pension etc.

We don't see the early starts, late nights, constant monitoring, constant criticism and the risk of false accusation.

Teachers do a hard job and deserve the rewards they receive."

neither do "we" see the threats of violence from pupils and parents, the bullying by pupils and parents, the league tables and targets...but I forgot they have it easy.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I haven't even read all this thread. I got about a third down and was sickened and shocked at some of the comments. My mums a teacher. 35 hours? My mum is there till gone 5 every day and then works from home till 10 most days! Without teachers you wouldn't be reading this thread or writing your disgraceful comments! They deserve more money, would even go as far to say they should be some of the highest paid in the country. Without them, there would be no doctors to treat you when you were sick, and no lawyers to help you when you needed it.

Lauz

well said. I actually qualified as a teacher but soon decided it wasn't for me because of all the extra work involved. It is a profession that you have to be completely dedicated to and I'm basically a lazy person and the draw of the 9 to 5 office job was much more appealing. I'm staggered at the amount of people who think teachers are lazy and greedy. "

they're usually the same ones that want their childrens teachers to be responsible for teaching them morals, table manners, which side of the envelope a stamp should go on, how to make a sandwich and how to conduct a responsible and safe sex life.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

........... as well as tie their shoelaces and wipe their arse.

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By *ightkitty4uWoman
over a year ago

Epsom

I'm sure Chessington World of Adventures welcomed the strike...

When I drove past at 11am the car park was full and they cars where being diverted into the over flow car park and there was a healthy stream of people walking from the train station the the theme park....

So it was a good day for "tourist attractions"

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I'm sure Chessington World of Adventures welcomed the strike...

When I drove past at 11am the car park was full and they cars where being diverted into the over flow car park and there was a healthy stream of people walking from the train station the the theme park....

So it was a good day for "tourist attractions" "

That it is. Parents who noticed the warning of possible strike action made plans to cover the eventuality of the children being at home today. The ones that can afford it took the kids for one of those days of enrichment they claim to need during term time as it impossible to do these things in the holidays.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Can I also just say that there is no point going on strike unless it causes inconvenience.

which is why i chuckle when teachers strike, i have no kids

i chuckle when london tube drivers strike, i dont live there nor use it

chuckle when binmen strike, my bin is never full, and its they that have to work their arses off trying to catch up

in fact, there is very few services i rely on day to day that means i would be put out by a strike.

i love modern society lol

Would you chuckle if your house was on fire and the fire brigade were on strike? Just cos it doesn't affect you directly doesn't make it less important. "

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

keep stored in a cool dry place out of direct sunlight..works in Scotland. x x X

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Well, it's been an interesting debate. I still come back to my opening point, about why people think striking us reasonable as a form of protest. We try to teach children they don't get what they want by stamping their feet, and yet,isn't this effectively doing just that?...

All through this debate I haven't criticised what teachers earn or holidays.- that's immaterial to my point about the action of striking. I actually agree teachers have a hard life and should be paid more. We however in the UK have a very powerful and democratic notion of the law of supply and demand. And, the requirement that employers operate solvently. Employers should reserve the right to amend their employment of staff in line with economic prerogatives.

It's amazing how easily threads end up in a bashing/defending teachers pay/conditions argument, that isn't what I set out to create, it was a discussion about the principle of striking. I sympathise with teachers _iewpoint, but I wholeheartedly disagree with the action of striking.

Thanks for the lively banter!

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By *effrey45Man
over a year ago

Lytham

If it's that good then you can all stop moaning and become a teacher

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

When government refuses to engage in debate or discussion what other choice is there than withdrawal of labour?

Gove has consistently ignored all efforts at any dialogue. Had he not done so this strike would have been called off.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Today's news (both TV and radio on different channels)said that the strike was called in the middle of negotiations and that the NASUWT refused to partake because there is open dialogue ongoing?

They also said they've faced bullying tactics from the NUT for their refusal to get involved in strike action.

Is this a falsehood?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Today's news (both TV and radio on different channels)said that the strike was called in the middle of negotiations and that the NASUWT refused to partake because there is open dialogue ongoing?

They also said they've faced bullying tactics from the NUT for their refusal to get involved in strike action.

Is this a falsehood?"

I can't comment on the alleged bullying tactics, but yes, negotiations are ongoing, NUT chose to still strike despite them ongoing, NASUWT cancelled their planned strike to allow the discussions to continue

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"........... as well as tie their shoelaces and wipe their arse."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well, it's been an interesting debate. I still come back to my opening point, about why people think striking us reasonable as a form of protest. We try to teach children they don't get what they want by stamping their feet, and yet,isn't this effectively doing just that?...

All through this debate I haven't criticised what teachers earn or holidays.- that's immaterial to my point about the action of striking. I actually agree teachers have a hard life and should be paid more. We however in the UK have a very powerful and democratic notion of the law of supply and demand. And, the requirement that employers operate solvently. Employers should reserve the right to amend their employment of staff in line with economic prerogatives.

It's amazing how easily threads end up in a bashing/defending teachers pay/conditions argument, that isn't what I set out to create, it was a discussion about the principle of striking. I sympathise with teachers _iewpoint, but I wholeheartedly disagree with the action of striking.

Thanks for the lively banter!

"

"We"? You never did say what you did in education did you?

MP's and ministers come and go. Gove will too sooner or later. Until he does, teachers have the right to stamp their feet and any other strategy to try and present their case so long as its within the law and in the best interests of what they're employed to do.

Your opening post seemed a pretty good attempt to set up a teacher bashing debate and at odds with you apparently sympathising with their cause.


"I seriously think teachers believe that the general public, en masse, have sympathy for their plight and actions. I'd say they're deluded"

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The 'we' in my earlier post being society in general.

As for what I do, it's irrelevant to the point of the thread. However, I work as a Finance Director in an academy. I'm not a teacher, never profess to be, and have the utmost respect for what they do.

There certainly isn't teacher bashing in terms of their pay/conditions, but I do think there is a misguided notion within education that the public back their industrial action. I don't believe by and large that to be the case

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That certainly explains a great deal!

Broadly I agree re. support. The unions have judged matters very badly and allowed the Government to present the issues as self interested teachers only concerned with their personal benefits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Never a strike during holidays, of which teachers get the most of any profession in the country. Excuses every time for an over paid job with very few results, "we spend so much time working at home? " or is it just the wrong people in the job these days?"

Defeat the object striking during a holiday wouldn't it?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Never a strike during holidays, of which teachers get the most of any profession in the country. Excuses every time for an over paid job with very few results, "we spend so much time working at home? " or is it just the wrong people in the job these days?

Defeat the object striking during a holiday wouldn't it?! "

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge


"Today's news (both TV and radio on different channels)said that the strike was called in the middle of negotiations and that the NASUWT refused to partake because there is open dialogue ongoing?

They also said they've faced bullying tactics from the NUT for their refusal to get involved in strike action.

Is this a falsehood?"

Gove himself has refused to meet with unions only sending 'representatives' and not to negotiate. He flatly refuses to negotiate. He merely reiterates the proposals through intermediaries. The media as usual being economical with the facts.

As for the bullying issue it is an allegedly leaked email from one individual in NASUWT which, from what I read last, has not been corroborated.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge


"Today's news (both TV and radio on different channels)said that the strike was called in the middle of negotiations and that the NASUWT refused to partake because there is open dialogue ongoing?

They also said they've faced bullying tactics from the NUT for their refusal to get involved in strike action.

Is this a falsehood?"

Gove himself has refused to meet with unions only sending 'representatives' and not to negotiate. He flatly refuses to negotiate. He merely reiterates the proposals through intermediaries. The media as usual being economical with the facts.

As for the bullying issue it is an allegedly leaked email from one individual in NASUWT which, from what I read last, has not been corroborated.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge


"If it's that good then you can all stop moaning and become a teacher"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

.

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