FabSwingers.com forum: transgender birthcert change

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

should a tg have the right to change birthcert to match their new gender ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes if they have the bits why not?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

the birthcert is to state born male ! say surely its not ok to just come along and falsify this to suit a sex change in later life ? fact still remains she was born male

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By *innamon!Woman
over a year ago

no matter

Yes of course they should, the trauma of living in the wrong body is bad enough. once they have made the changes they have become the alternative sex.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yes of course they should, the trauma of living in the wrong body is bad enough. once they have made the changes they have become the alternative sex."
I do understand where your coming from but ! you can't change history! your birth cert is an official record ! fact is you were born a male

and I think people in certain cases have a right to know this like in marriage or maybe certain jobs ? well marriage definitely

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

What jobs would need to know your gender at birth?

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

Yes

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By *ittenklawsWoman
over a year ago

huddersfield

Change it to whatever they want

Change it to a tree for.me

there body

there life

there choice

none of mine the government or anyone else's concern

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

Did micheal jackson get to change his race description ??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely shouldn't change it , even if only from the marriage point .

It could be abused .

Maybe an amended birth certificate stating the sea change ?

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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago

hertfordshire

have a transgender neice/nephew

I don't think it should be changed on the birth certificate she was born a male

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By *arlock69Man
over a year ago

Batley... (near Leeds)

If a transgender person, male or female wants to correct their birth certificate...isn't that down to them and the local authorities at the end of the day?

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By *ittenklawsWoman
over a year ago

huddersfield

Good idea. X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not being able to do it would aid descrimination do you support that. If your saying you shouldn't be able to change what's on a birth certificate then you shouldn't be able to change your name, or add a parent when parenthood is not known.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have two birth certificates my original one with given name and second one once adopted

So I guess it's possible to have this done

Am sure it's been debated

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

Now why on this occassion would you wish to change your birth certificate,

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"What jobs would need to know your gender at birth?"
can't think of any! maybe a priest? lol

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

House wife lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can't understand why the OP is that bothered by other peoples birth certificates!

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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago

hertfordshire

passports are usually acceptable as id

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can't understand why the OP is that bothered by other peoples birth certificates! "

Maybe in case he marries one and wants kids ?

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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago

hertfordshire

passports can have it reflected in their passports when they send documents from doctors

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely the fact that a transgendered person can't have kids would come up before they got married?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can sort of see his point - no-one is born trans-gendered, except the very rare hermaphrodites. Perhaps the change on tthe birth certificate should show as an update, rather than a change. Having said all that, I don't really care that much.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

The birth certificate only records what sexual organs a person has. That is only one element of gender.

I think they should be able to reflect that they have changed their gender.

Not really sure what the 'marriage' argument is all about. How many couples checked each other's birth certificate out before popping the question?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

so who decides that when a baby is born and its a hermaphrodite which sex it is to be, obviously its the doctor at the birth and how does he know hes picked the right one if he removes the penis and makes the baby a girl but then later that person wants to be a boy.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

really not an issue i'm my day to day life but their is a group in the US looking to legally change birth certs for Trans genders and I think its going too far ! they were born what they were and that's the only proof of it and it shouldn't be wiped! can't change history ! no exceptions

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"so who decides that when a baby is born and its a hermaphrodite which sex it is to be, obviously its the doctor at the birth and how does he know hes picked the right one if he removes the penis and makes the baby a girl but then later that person wants to be a boy."

the parents generally. At least it was in a book I read lol

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Some wonderful hypothetical situations here about why someone shouldn't change their gender on their birth certificate. You could make similar arguments about people shouldn't be allowed to do all sorts of things in case it gets abused.

The law states that upon receiving a full gender recognition certificate you can receive an amended birth certificate.

If someone is now legally a different gender, why the heck should they have a birth certificate that says something different? Doing so would undermine the entire rationale for a sex change. You have the bits, you have a new driving licence and passport, but not your birth certificate.

I'm also curious about why the OP is so bothered about TG issues.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Some wonderful hypothetical situations here about why someone shouldn't change their gender on their birth certificate. You could make similar arguments about people shouldn't be allowed to do all sorts of things in case it gets abused.

The law states that upon receiving a full gender recognition certificate you can receive an amended birth certificate.

I'm also curious about why the OP is so bothered about TG issues."
because i'm thinking of changing sex to get more replies here! but I'd like to be remembered as being born male and having the courage to change rather than trying to hide my past

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Can't understand why the OP is that bothered by other peoples birth certificates! "

use the green arrow..

may give an inkling..

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

It's not a new gender. It's the gender they've always been.

Post-op they just have the body to match.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

The law states that upon receiving a full gender recognition certificate you can receive an amended birth certificate.

I'm also curious about why the OP is so bothered about TG issues. because i'm thinking of changing sex to get more replies here! but I'd like to be remembered as being born male and having the courage to change rather than trying to hide my past"

Yes because TS people simply don't face enough stigma, discrimination and hate crime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What jobs would need to know your gender at birth? can't think of any! maybe a priest? lol"

But it was you that suggested it may be relevant?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"really not an issue i'm my day to day life but their is a group in the US looking to legally change birth certs for Trans genders and I think its going too far ! they were born what they were and that's the only proof of it and it shouldn't be wiped! can't change history ! no exceptions"

By the way, you're talking about transsexuals.

The term TG is usually taken as including TVs too.

TVs have no desire to change their gender on any documentation, usually.

This thread is

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Once they have had all the appropriate operations/hormone treatments, they legally become the opposite sex, so therefore I would imagine their birth certificate would have to be changed accordingly, so any passports, driver licences etc they go onto apply for arent falsified documents. Thats would be logical to me but i'll be the first to admit i'm not clued up on the subject

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This discussion is all a bit late....

It all went through Parliament after huge debate and became law some years ago.!

The basis is that a trans person is born with a brain and mental gender identity that don't match some of the body bits. It is not a "choice"!

So if the original Birth Certificate goes by genitals only, then it is incorrect in describing their identity.

So, after passing some very complex screening, a trans person is able to obtain a new Birth Certificate showing their true gender - which is their personal identity...

And just to clarify, a trans person is only trans while they are transitioning from one situation to the other. At the end of it they are a complete person, with a correct identity - and it is actually a criminal offence to discriminate against them.

I've had a lot of trans friends.. and have been awestruck at their courage and tenacity in demanding to be themselves - and ashamed of people who seek to put them down.

Hope that helps to clarify things a little.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have a friend who's applying for a gender recognition certificate at the moment, you'd be amazed at the hoops one has to jump through just to be recognised as who you are.

There's no deceit, only a life of trauma before finally being allowed to just be yourself.

As an idea you have to have come to terms with what's been bugging you for all your life, so you can then go and wait possibly years to try and get help, then live as your chosen gender for months before you get the help of hormones to at least give a chance of passing, then after 2 years you get to fight for funding to get surgery, then you still have to convince a panel of suits who've never met you that you've no intention of going back before you can finally rid yourself of the past that haunts you and threatensbto break up and destroy instantly the fragile new existence you've carved out for yourself from what's left of your life.

And yet folk are still so much more concerned for themselves that these harmless people who just want to live their lives are somehow out to get them!

Grow up ffs!

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"This discussion is all a bit late....

It all went through Parliament after huge debate and became law some years ago.!

The basis is that a trans person is born with a brain and mental gender identity that don't match some of the body bits. It is not a "choice"!

So if the original Birth Certificate goes by genitals only, then it is incorrect in describing their identity.

So, after passing some very complex screening, a trans person is able to obtain a new Birth Certificate showing their true gender - which is their personal identity...

I've had a lot of trans friends.. and have been awestruck at their courage and tenacity in demanding to be themselves - and ashamed of people who seek to put them down.

Hope that helps to clarify things a little.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well said, Mooreish...!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It isn't falsifying records to change the gender on a birth certificate. A male to female transexual has always been female but was born with male genitalia so was wrongly classified as being a male child.

After corrective surgery the birth certificate is altered to reflect the correct gender ie female, and vice versa for female to male etc

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

I don't understand why someone who is living as the correct gender would want to deny anyone else the right to do so.

In what way does this issue affect your life OP? Does it impact you in any way? What are you scared of?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't understand why someone who is living as the correct gender would want to deny anyone else the right to do so.

In what way does this issue affect your life OP? Does it impact you in any way? What are you scared of?"

Seemingly having sex with someone that used to be a man and turning him gay

(not that it would)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apologies that was out of order

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

"This discussion is all a bit late....

It all went through Parliament after huge debate and became law some years ago.!

The basis is that a trans person is born with a brain and mental gender identity that don't match some of the body bits. It is not a "choice"!

So if the original Birth Certificate goes by genitals only, then it is incorrect in describing their identity.

So, after passing some very complex screening, a trans person is able to obtain a new Birth Certificate showing their true gender - which is their personal identity...

I've had a lot of trans friends.. and have been awestruck at their courage and tenacity in demanding to be themselves - and ashamed of people who seek to put them down.

Hope that helps to clarify things a little.

Think you will find its against the law to discriminate against anyone

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I don't understand why someone who is living as the correct gender would want to deny anyone else the right to do so.

In what way does this issue affect your life OP? Does it impact you in any way? What are you scared of?"
this issue doesn't affect my life in any way i'm curious that is all! but mooriesh said they get funding? what funding? why?

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

Oo and for the general record , for whatever reason you require a different birth cert its not a new one, its a replacement, your original cert remains registered with the original documentation

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"I don't understand why someone who is living as the correct gender would want to deny anyone else the right to do so.

In what way does this issue affect your life OP? Does it impact you in any way? What are you scared of? this issue doesn't affect my life in any way i'm curious that is all! but mooriesh said they get funding? what funding? why?"

"...funding to get surgery..." would suggest it's funding to get surgery.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"I don't understand why someone who is living as the correct gender would want to deny anyone else the right to do so.

everyone who has surgery gets funding for it, its just some have to convince a board of people that the surgery is wanted, needed, safe etc its a tough fight for someone wanting gender reassignment.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

OP on a thread yesterday you inferred that children may need protection from seeing a tv or a man who cross dressers..

you came across as narrow minded then and this thread is just another example of that..

imho that is..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think you will find its against the law to discriminate against anyone

Think you will find that there are specific laws dealing directly with discrimination or hate crime against trans people....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

excuse my ignorance on the matter but when did all this start happening?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OP on a thread yesterday you inferred that children may need protection from seeing a tv or a man who cross dressers..

you came across as narrow minded then and this thread is just another example of that..

imho that is..

I'd agree - "Methinks the OP doth protest too much...."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"excuse my ignorance on the matter but when did all this start happening?"

About 60 years ago....

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

Think you will find its against the law to discriminate against anyone

Think you will find that there are specific laws dealing directly with discrimination or hate crime against trans people....

So there are different levels of discrimination , mmmmm .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think you will find its against the law to discriminate against anyone

Think you will find that there are specific laws dealing directly with discrimination or hate crime against trans people....

So there are different levels of discrimination , mmmmm .

No - discrimination is discrimination - but there are specific sectors of society that need specific clarification to bring their discrimination within the proper attention of the law....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Transexuals are protected under the equalities act 2010, which also protects against discrimination due to gender, disability or sexuality

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

strange that when all they want is to live a normal life and ye make em out to be like some sort of protected species !! give em a break guys

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"strange that when all they want is to live a normal life and ye make em out to be like some sort of protected species !! give em a break guys"

everyone is protected by the equalities act

must admit i find this statement odd from a guy who thinks children should be protected from men who want to wear womens clothing in public

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Transexuals are protected under the equalities act 2010, which also protects against discrimination due to gender, disability or sexuality"

and race, age, and marriage/civil partnership

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"strange that when all they want is to live a normal life and ye make em out to be like some sort of protected species !! give em a break guys

everyone is protected by the equalities act

must admit i find this statement odd from a guy who thinks children should be protected from men who want to wear womens clothing in public"
a guy in Liverpool abducted a child three years ago! he was dressed up as a Lolly Pop lady and that's why a need to be careful ! you keep quoting this? its not an argument its a debate

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"strange that when all they want is to live a normal life and ye make em out to be like some sort of protected species !! give em a break guys"

Consider your comments and attitude then think again about why TS people might need protection.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"strange that when all they want is to live a normal life and ye make em out to be like some sort of protected species !! give em a break guys

everyone is protected by the equalities act

must admit i find this statement odd from a guy who thinks children should be protected from men who want to wear womens clothing in public"
transexuals are not the same as transgenders ! seems you categories them all the same?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"strange that when all they want is to live a normal life and ye make em out to be like some sort of protected species !! give em a break guys

everyone is protected by the equalities act

must admit i find this statement odd from a guy who thinks children should be protected from men who want to wear womens clothing in public a guy in Liverpool abducted a child three years ago! he was dressed up as a Lolly Pop lady and that's why a need to be careful ! you keep quoting this? its not an argument its a debate"

thats the first time i have quoted that.

children need to be protected from a lot of society yet you specifically singled out men who cross dress.

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

"should a tg have the right to change birthcert to match their new gender ?

No...

Its a certification of birth

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No!! No matter what transpires later in life if you are born either male or female thats how it should be in my _iew.

I have absolutely no issues with tg just think birth certificate is just that a record of gender of birth and see no reason to be able to change it.

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

Think you will find its against the law to discriminate against anyone

Think you will find that there are specific laws dealing directly with discrimination or hate crime against trans people....

So there are different levels of discrimination , mmmmm .

No - discrimination is discrimination - but there are specific sectors of society that need specific clarification to bring their discrimination within the proper attention of the law...."

Correct, that was my point, pity you chose to over disect it

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"strange that when all they want is to live a normal life and ye make em out to be like some sort of protected species !! give em a break guys

everyone is protected by the equalities act

This makes no sense when by far the majority of abductions are carried out by cis-gendered people.

Are children to be kept from encountering all adults?

Oh, James Bulger wasn't abducted by adults. Better make sure children never encounter anyone at all

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

" a guy in Liverpool abducted a child three years ago! he was dressed up as a Lolly Pop lady and that's why a need to be careful ! you keep quoting this? its not an argument its a debate"

then dont live in Liverpool..!

are you seriously suggesting that because one person dressed as a woman to carry out a crime that there is some countrywide issue and people need to be 'carefull'..?

you seem to be clutching at straws in your attempts to justify your prejudices..

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"should a tg have the right to change birthcert to match their new gender ?

No...

Its a certification of birth

Indeed. But it states gender when that has yet to be determined. Mistakes are made and it should be possible to correct them.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"No!! No matter what transpires later in life if you are born either male or female thats how it should be in my _iew.

I have absolutely no issues with tg just think birth certificate is just that a record of gender of birth and see no reason to be able to change it."

Gender is not determined solely by the sexual organs a person has.

It's not always possible to correctly identify gender at birth.

I honestly don't get why this is a difficult concept for some.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

" a guy in Liverpool abducted a child three years ago! he was dressed up as a Lolly Pop lady and that's why a need to be careful ! you keep quoting this? its not an argument its a debate

then dont live in Liverpool..!

are you seriously suggesting that because one person dressed as a woman to carry out a crime that there is some countrywide issue and people need to be 'carefull'..?

you seem to be clutching at straws in your attempts to justify your prejudices..

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"No!! No matter what transpires later in life if you are born either male or female thats how it should be in my _iew.

I have absolutely no issues with tg just think birth certificate is just that a record of gender of birth and see no reason to be able to change it.

Gender is not determined solely by the sexual organs a person has.

It's not always possible to correctly identify gender at birth.

I honestly don't get why this is a difficult concept for some."
this has to be the funniest post UV ever written haha I love your since of humour x

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

No...

Its a certification of birth

Indeed. But it states gender when that has yet to be determined. Mistakes are made and it should be possible to correct them."

Birth certificate isnt just about gender!

For legal reasons no one should be allowed to change their registration of birth!

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By *eordie JoJoTV/TS
over a year ago

Newcastle

Your nothing but a wind up merchant ..... Who try's his hardest to get a reaction in the forums with your pathetic narrow minded _iews.

you actually haven't a clue ....

however with a name like Prada.... I'm sure you know Dorothy too but being from Ireland it manifests itself in other ways..... You have _iews on childen seeing TV's and now birth certification......Yet happy to leave your kids with priests

tut tut

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

No...

Its a certification of birth

Indeed. But it states gender when that has yet to be determined. Mistakes are made and it should be possible to correct them.

Birth certificate isnt just about gender!

For legal reasons no one should be allowed to change their registration of birth!"

if someone changes their name by deed poll do they get to change their birth certificate to reflect that?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

No...

Its a certification of birth

Indeed. But it states gender when that has yet to be determined. Mistakes are made and it should be possible to correct them.

Birth certificate isnt just about gender!

For legal reasons no one should be allowed to change their registration of birth!"

What legal reasons?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No...

Its a certification of birth

Indeed. But it states gender when that has yet to be determined. Mistakes are made and it should be possible to correct them.

Birth certificate isnt just about gender!

For legal reasons no one should be allowed to change their registration of birth!

if someone changes their name by deed poll do they get to change their birth certificate to reflect that?"

Or fathers that need their information registering later on in the childs life as hey werent present at the registering of the childs birth in order to be on the birth certificate, there are many reasons for information on a birth certificate to be changed, including changing from one gender to another

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

" a guy in Liverpool abducted a child three years ago! he was dressed up as a Lolly Pop lady and that's why a need to be careful ! you keep quoting this? its not an argument its a debate"

Wow! Convincing argument! Do we keep kids away from all men? All lolly pop ladies? All people in Liverpool?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

what ever about legal reasons ! if your born a male with male genitalia get a cert stating that! if later in life you wish you were born female because you feel and act like a woman then by all means go get your operation but it does not change the fact you were born with male genitalia

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now this thread has really got me thinking .

Bear with me .

So at birth , it is clear that the child is male .

As the child grows up , it is apparent that a ' mistake ' was made ( still unsure who made the mistake ) and the boy is really a girl in a boys body .

So , various methods are employed ( hormones , surgery , counselling ) to correct the mistake .

And when it's all done , the man is now a woman .

So the birth certificate is changed to reflect the change .....

And there was I before figuring all this out , worrying about whether my tomatoes were genetically modified

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"what ever about legal reasons ! if your born a male with male genitalia get a cert stating that! if later in life you wish you were born female because you feel and act like a woman then by all means go get your operation but it does not change the fact you were born with male genitalia"

no shit sherlock..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OP its onvious you havent got the first clue about gender identity disorders

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OP its onvious you havent got the first clue about gender identity disorders "

Hit post too early. I was going to go on and say If you did you would no it wasnt as black and white as you're making it out to be and IMO your just coming off as a bigot!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Now this thread has really got me thinking .

Bear with me .

So at birth , it is clear that the child is male .

As the child grows up , it is apparent that a ' mistake ' was made ( still unsure who made the mistake ) and the boy is really a girl in a boys body .

So , various methods are employed ( hormones , surgery , counselling ) to correct the mistake .

And when it's all done , the man is now a woman .

So the birth certificate is changed to reflect the change .....

And there was I before figuring all this out , worrying about whether my tomatoes were genetically modified

"
well put ! its not natural

God chooses our gender and we should not interfere with his good will

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No...

Its a certification of birth

Indeed. But it states gender when that has yet to be determined. Mistakes are made and it should be possible to correct them.

Birth certificate isnt just about gender!

For legal reasons no one should be allowed to change their registration of birth!"

Technically they are not changing the registration of their birth, the date and place of birth remains the same. Not much point having a birth certificate or record if it doesn't relate to the person is there?

OP what are the rules in Ireland? I find it strange that you are so concerned about what is a liberal law in a country you do not reside in? It's not exactly a negative human rights issue is it? In the decade ending in 2010 there were about 850 gender reassignment operations carried out by the NHS, from what I've heard they have to jump through a lot of hoops to be considered as suitable for the treatment. Roughly 1 in 60000 people. So there could be 1 in a town the size of Limerick. That must be very traumatic for you to deal with, don't forget to ask every female you meet if they are the one.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Now this thread has really got me thinking .

Bear with me .

So at birth , it is clear that the child is male .

As the child grows up , it is apparent that a ' mistake ' was made ( still unsure who made the mistake ) and the boy is really a girl in a boys body .

So , various methods are employed ( hormones , surgery , counselling ) to correct the mistake .

And when it's all done , the man is now a woman .

So the birth certificate is changed to reflect the change .....

And there was I before figuring all this out , worrying about whether my tomatoes were genetically modified

well put ! its not natural

God chooses our gender and we should not interfere with his good will"

Really??

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

" well put ! its not natural

God chooses our gender and we should not interfere with his good will"

you mean 'her' surely..

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

my cat chases my car out the drive

should I get him operated on and change him to a dog ?? ffs its not right

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Now this thread has really got me thinking .

Bear with me .

So at birth , it is clear that the child is male .

As the child grows up , it is apparent that a ' mistake ' was made ( still unsure who made the mistake ) and the boy is really a girl in a boys body .

So , various methods are employed ( hormones , surgery , counselling ) to correct the mistake .

And when it's all done , the man is now a woman .

So the birth certificate is changed to reflect the change .....

And there was I before figuring all this out , worrying about whether my tomatoes were genetically modified

well put ! its not natural

God chooses our gender and we should not interfere with his good will"

Allahu Akbar

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So exactly how far does the change surgery go?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Having male genitalia does not mean a person is male.

How many times?!

This is pointless. The prejudiced won't understand because they don't want to. It's pointless them asking the question or anyone else answering.

There are women on here who were born women. They happened, due to a mistake, to be born with a penis but they were and are women.

Likewise, some men are born with a vagina.

Some people are born with both a penis and a vagina.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

"my cat chases my car out the drive

should I get him operated on and change him to a dog ?? ffs its not right"

Charming.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"my cat chases my car out the drive

should I get him operated on and change him to a dog ?? ffs its not right"

FFS Thats hardly the same thing is it? Were talking about real people with real emotions and feelings not animals

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?"

The whole way....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?"

We talking cat to dog here?

Stick a wig on it bit of lippy and throw him a bone…

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?"

In women the penis and testicles are removed and a vagina created.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" well put ! its not natural

God chooses our gender and we should not interfere with his good will"

Ohhh - and I bet that same god really loves people on a swingers site....!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?

In women the penis and testicles are removed and a vagina created."

There is also the full list of cosmetic surgery. Facial feminisation, shaving the Adams apple, breasts, bum... Some can be achieved with hormone treatment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?

The whole way...."

I'm only asking because some illnesses are unique to men and women and I was wondering if that lead to confusion in treatment down the line. So we're talking the penis, testicles, prostrate and so on?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"my cat chases my car out the drive

should I get him operated on and change him to a dog ?? ffs its not right

FFS Thats hardly the same thing is it? Were talking about real people with real emotions and feelings not animals"

Hang on , I can see where he us coming from .

Animals have feelings and emotions too .

What if the same mistake was made with the ops cat ?

Now that does seem prejudiced , he may have a dog mistakenly put in a cats body

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Am I meant to be getting on my knees at this point and praising The Lord...I think not...it's not gods will it's called life....Some are born the wrong sex not by choice so get over it...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" well put ! its not natural

God chooses our gender and we should not interfere with his good will

Ohhh - and I bet that same god really loves people on a swingers site....!"

3 hail Mary's and all is forgiven…

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"my cat chases my car out the drive

should I get him operated on and change him to a dog ?? ffs its not right"

no you shouldn't because it's not up to you whether your cat is a cat or a dog. Also going from one sex to another is not the same as going from on species to another.

If you are going to try and have an educated debate at least try to put forward educated arguments.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?

The whole way....

I would imagine there would be something on the medical records to indicate to health professionals any historic surgical procedures carried out.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

" well put ! its not natural

God chooses our gender and we should not interfere with his good will

Ohhh - and I bet that same god really loves people on a swingers site....!"

Especially the ones who were married in his/her sight and are nnow cheating

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?

The whole way....

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Now this thread has really got me thinking .

Bear with me .

So at birth , it is clear that the child is male .

As the child grows up , it is apparent that a ' mistake ' was made ( still unsure who made the mistake ) and the boy is really a girl in a boys body .

So , various methods are employed ( hormones , surgery , counselling ) to correct the mistake .

And when it's all done , the man is now a woman .

So the birth certificate is changed to reflect the change .....

And there was I before figuring all this out , worrying about whether my tomatoes were genetically modified

well put ! its not natural

God chooses our gender and we should not interfere with his good will"

God schmod!!! If God was that great why do things get cocked up all the time?? Men in women's bodies and women in men's!! It's a ducking nightmare at Devine baby dispatchers ain't it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"my cat chases my car out the drive

should I get him operated on and change him to a dog ?? ffs its not right

FFS Thats hardly the same thing is it? Were talking about real people with real emotions and feelings not animals

Hang on , I can see where he us coming from .

Animals have feelings and emotions too .

What if the same mistake was made with the ops cat ?

Now that does seem prejudiced , he may have a dog mistakenly put in a cats body

I'm not prejudice at all if my cat could tell me it should have been a dog and the same corrective proceudres were available for animals, i'd gladly let it and by the end it would be a dog and nothing but a dog

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?

The whole way....

I would imagine there would be something on the medical records to indicate to health professionals any historic surgical procedures carried out."

So that person would be recognised as a man or woman but if that person needed medical assistance then their biological history is taken into account.

Seem fair to me: a need to know basis!

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?

The whole way....

Even though I don't watch the soap I believe that post open transsexual hayley in corrie died of prostate cancer. A cruel reminder of her bodies origins

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" well put ! its not natural

God chooses our gender and we should not interfere with his good will

Ohhh - and I bet that same god really loves people on a swingers site....!

Especially the ones who were married in his/her sight and are nnow cheating

"
What has cheating got to do with it?

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?

The whole way....

Even though I don't watch the soap I believe that post open transsexual hayley in corrie died of prostate cancer. A cruel reminder of her bodies origins

Possibly I don't know fully what they take away...

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?

The whole way....

I would imagine there would be something on the medical records to indicate to health professionals any historic surgical procedures carried out.

So that person would be recognised as a man or woman but if that person needed medical assistance then their biological history is taken into account.

Seem fair to me: a need to know basis!

Of course full medical history

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"my cat chases my car out the drive

should I get him operated on and change him to a dog ?? ffs its not right

FFS Thats hardly the same thing is it? Were talking about real people with real emotions and feelings not animals

Hang on , I can see where he us coming from .

Animals have feelings and emotions too .

What if the same mistake was made with the ops cat ?

Now that does seem prejudiced , he may have a dog mistakenly put in a cats body

Would you have it sterilised or neutered to prevent cross species further ' mistakes ' ?

I don't know if this could present a potential problem , particularly if it was an attractive cat / dog ?

And imagine the trauma for the male or female dog that realises it fathered or gave birth to a litter of cats

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"my cat chases my car out the drive

should I get him operated on and change him to a dog ?? ffs its not right

FFS Thats hardly the same thing is it? Were talking about real people with real emotions and feelings not animals

Hang on , I can see where he us coming from .

Animals have feelings and emotions too .

What if the same mistake was made with the ops cat ?

Now that does seem prejudiced , he may have a dog mistakenly put in a cats body

Would you have it sterilised or neutered to prevent cross species further ' mistakes ' ?

I don't know if this could present a potential problem , particularly if it was an attractive cat / dog ?

And imagine the trauma for the male or female dog that realises it fathered or gave birth to a litter of cats

Hang on! Why we talking about Cats and Dogs?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"my cat chases my car out the drive

should I get him operated on and change him to a dog ?? ffs its not right

FFS Thats hardly the same thing is it? Were talking about real people with real emotions and feelings not animals

Hang on , I can see where he us coming from .

Animals have feelings and emotions too .

What if the same mistake was made with the ops cat ?

Now that does seem prejudiced , he may have a dog mistakenly put in a cats body

Would you have it sterilised or neutered to prevent cross species further ' mistakes ' ?

I don't know if this could present a potential problem , particularly if it was an attractive cat / dog ?

And imagine the trauma for the male or female dog that realises it fathered or gave birth to a litter of cats

Hang on! Why we talking about Cats and Dogs?

Do you know what I have no idea any more so given up they are as less understanding of gender identity disorders as the OP is im guessing

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Because the op thinks sex and species are interchangeable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Because the op thinks sex and species are interchangeable

To some , the thinking that ones sex is interchangeable is as baffling as species changing .

The op was using an analogy to try to let us know how he felt .

Perhaps he is religious , and this thread would baffle most religious followers .

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

so do they change the government census and all records along with his/her birth cert as well? I mean how far do we go in changing the records to hide the persons birth gender! he was born the wrong gender so be it but why try stage a big cover up and change factual documents

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"so do they change the government census and all records along with his/her birth cert as well? I mean how far do we go in changing the records to hide the persons birth gender! he was born the wrong gender so be it but why try stage a big cover up and change factual documents"

because they dont see themselves being regarded as being born male and never have so why should they be refered to or documented as so, just because you dont understand something doesnt make it right/wrong

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"my cat chases my car out the drive

should I get him operated on and change him to a dog ?? ffs its not right

FFS Thats hardly the same thing is it? Were talking about real people with real emotions and feelings not animals

Hang on , I can see where he us coming from .

Animals have feelings and emotions too .

What if the same mistake was made with the ops cat ?

Now that does seem prejudiced , he may have a dog mistakenly put in a cats body

Would you have it sterilised or neutered to prevent cross species further ' mistakes ' ?

I don't know if this could present a potential problem , particularly if it was an attractive cat / dog ?

And imagine the trauma for the male or female dog that realises it fathered or gave birth to a litter of cats

Hang on! Why we talking about Cats and Dogs?

Op started a really bad analogy about his cat chasing his car and asked if he could change its species to a dog.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Facts dont change, but records that are very personal should reflect a person's gender, as it can aid someone's integration and well being. Official data can still record historical movements etc, but records that a person uses for their own purposes that are personal can support them. This is not about fraud or deception but to support someone in a caring way.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"my cat chases my car out the drive

should I get him operated on and change him to a dog ?? ffs its not right

FFS Thats hardly the same thing is it? Were talking about real people with real emotions and feelings not animals

Hang on , I can see where he us coming from .

Animals have feelings and emotions too .

What if the same mistake was made with the ops cat ?

Now that does seem prejudiced , he may have a dog mistakenly put in a cats body

Would you have it sterilised or neutered to prevent cross species further ' mistakes ' ?

I don't know if this could present a potential problem , particularly if it was an attractive cat / dog ?

And imagine the trauma for the male or female dog that realises it fathered or gave birth to a litter of cats

Hang on! Why we talking about Cats and Dogs?

Op started a really bad analogy about his cat chasing his car and asked if he could change its species to a dog."

Ohhhh he didn't mean that literally?

Shit.

I just submitted the application to transition to a cat. My two live the life of Riley. I want to be a cat!

I'm well disappointed now

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?

The whole way....

Yes lovely everything is removed I'm not sure about the prostate but penis and balls etc are removed and turned into a vagina but they have to undergo therapy and hormone replacement and have to live as a female for a year before gender reassignment is considered...the operation has to be approved. A lot go to Thailand which in my opinion leads the way in gender reassignment "
Thailand leads the way in gender reassignment! now that is reassuring ! so really I could go to Thailand and come home a woman after a year or how ever long! cool

only how will I get home? my passport is worthless

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes,Its a feeling they identify with from a very young age in fact in most cases from as young as they can actually remember

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?

The whole way....

Yes lovely everything is removed I'm not sure about the prostate but penis and balls etc are removed and turned into a vagina but they have to undergo therapy and hormone replacement and have to live as a female for a year before gender reassignment is considered...the operation has to be approved. A lot go to Thailand which in my opinion leads the way in gender reassignment Thailand leads the way in gender reassignment! now that is reassuring ! so really I could go to Thailand and come home a woman after a year or how ever long! cool

only how will I get home? my passport is worthless"

The majority of all the paprwork is organised before going over seas a passport photo is taken after all nessary surgeries etc (and they have recovered from said surgeries, sweeling gone down etc)and sent back to the UK (or wherever) for approval, and the current photo is verified by the surgoens that performed on them/ after care doctors that trewated them

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Why would they do that? I'm not sure what's on the census but I'm sure religion must be so if a person cgasnfes faith for whatever reason is the census chgasnged for them to? How important us the census in day to dsasy life anyway? Its not dine every year so are you saying only trans people born in the year if a census are not allowed to change their gender?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"should a tg have the right to change birthcert to match their new gender ?

Judging from your pics, we think you're going to need a bit more surgery before you look like a woman. For now you should concentrate on that before you even think about getting your birth certificate changed

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

Having male genitalia does not mean a person is male.

How many times?!

This is pointless. The prejudiced won't understand because they don't want to. It's pointless them asking the question or anyone else answering.

There are women on here who were born women. They happened, due to a mistake, to be born with a penis but they were and are women.

Likewise, some men are born with a vagina.

Some people are born with both a penis and a vagina."

Very true, regarding whose born with which organs etc, but one would hope this was pointed out in their profile , same as. White, black, coloured, asian , male , female , gay , bi , straight, etc

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By *otTheReal01Man
over a year ago

London

"So exactly how far does the change surgery go?

We talking cat to dog here?

Stick a wig on it bit of lippy and throw him a bone…"

That made my day!

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Having male genitalia does not mean a person is male.

How many times?!

This is pointless. The prejudiced won't understand because they don't want to. It's pointless them asking the question or anyone else answering.

There are women on here who were born women. They happened, due to a mistake, to be born with a penis but they were and are women.

Likewise, some men are born with a vagina.

Some people are born with both a penis and a vagina.

Very true, regarding whose born with which organs etc, but one would hope this was pointed out in their profile , same as. White, black, coloured, asian , male , female , gay , bi , straight, etc

If someone is transitioning then I think they should let any potential meets know.

If they've completed their transition I don't see why they should present themselves as anything other than the woman or man they are.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes of course they should, the trauma of living in the wrong body is bad enough. once they have made the changes they have become the alternative sex. I do understand where your coming from but ! you can't change history! your birth cert is an official record ! fact is you were born a male

and I think people in certain cases have a right to know this like in marriage or maybe certain jobs ? well marriage definitely"

If you manage to make it all the way to marriage without realising your partner has had a sex change then if be very concerned.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As even post op is easy to tell, unless you've never seen or experienced a Winona private parts.

The line is also quite a give away

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

Having male genitalia does not mean a person is male.

How many times?!

This is pointless. The prejudiced won't understand because they don't want to. It's pointless them asking the question or anyone else answering.

There are women on here who were born women. They happened, due to a mistake, to be born with a penis but they were and are women.

Likewise, some men are born with a vagina.

Some people are born with both a penis and a vagina.

Very true, regarding whose born with which organs etc, but one would hope this was pointed out in their profile , same as. White, black, coloured, asian , male , female , gay , bi , straight, etc

If someone is transitioning then I think they should let any potential meets know.

If they've completed their transition I don't see why they should present themselves as anything other than the woman or man they are."

Present themselves as they wish, but inform potential meets of the true state of affairs, lets be honest if anyone read a profile which stated said person was handsome a nd big willy , or gorgeous and buxom but truth be they were neither im sure they would be not too happy, unless of course they were none too fussy about size, race , proportions , gay , bi straight or any other feature

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

surely if they have gone through the whole change the true state of affairs is what they are.

Thats like saying someone who lost a shit load of weight has to tell any meets that they used to be a fatty....how is it relevant?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"surely if they have gone through the whole change the true state of affairs is what they are.

Thats like saying someone who lost a shit load of weight has to tell any meets that they used to be a fatty....how is it relevant?"

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By *reelove1969Couple
over a year ago

bristol

"What jobs would need to know your gender at birth?"

athletics and other sports where physical strength is important

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Having male genitalia does not mean a person is male.

How many times?!

This is pointless. The prejudiced won't understand because they don't want to. It's pointless them asking the question or anyone else answering.

There are women on here who were born women. They happened, due to a mistake, to be born with a penis but they were and are women.

Likewise, some men are born with a vagina.

Some people are born with both a penis and a vagina.

Very true, regarding whose born with which organs etc, but one would hope this was pointed out in their profile , same as. White, black, coloured, asian , male , female , gay , bi , straight, etc

If someone is transitioning then I think they should let any potential meets know.

If they've completed their transition I don't see why they should present themselves as anything other than the woman or man they are.

The true state of affairs is that they are mentally and physically a woman/man.

Trying to compare this with people making untrue statements in their profiles is ridiculous.

They say they are female (or male for FTM), legally they are female (or male for FTM) and they are female (or male for FTM).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Their birth cert is a dated official document and should remain unchanged. They can however have a passport in their new sex and that should surfice.

I wonder what happens when a hermaphrodite is registered? It is frequently the parent that chooses how to bring them up but should the birth cert have their true dual sex on it???

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"What jobs would need to know your gender at birth?

athletics and other sports where physical strength is important "

Not so.

They don't check birth certificates for proof of gender at high level athletics... and even the old method of confirming gender by taking a peep inside their pants has long been replaced by blood tests to check if an athlete is XX or XY...... which has it's own flaws.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"Can't understand why the OP is that bothered by other peoples birth certificates!

Maybe in case he marries one and wants kids ?"

Does having female on your birth certificate guarantee this?

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

"surely if they have gone through the whole change the true state of affairs is what they are.

Thats like saying someone who lost a shit load of weight has to tell any meets that they used to be a fatty....how is it relevant?"

Lol , well lets say your a straight man and only meet women, i would suggest that if the guy were getting up to oral , sex , kissing , etc etc giving and receiving then found out that she used to be a he, i would imagine he would be quite pissed off, to point out by the way , i have no issue with tg or ts, merely can see the opposing opinions. So yes it is relevant, unlike pointing out your weight loss.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"surely if they have gone through the whole change the true state of affairs is what they are.

Thats like saying someone who lost a shit load of weight has to tell any meets that they used to be a fatty....how is it relevant?

So even though they have gone through everything they have to go through, jumpoed through all the hoops they have to to become a woman in the eyes of the law they have to be reminded of the often traumatic journey they have been through because they are on here?

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

"surely if they have gone through the whole change the true state of affairs is what they are.

Thats like saying someone who lost a shit load of weight has to tell any meets that they used to be a fatty....how is it relevant?

So by that ,i take it that the potential meets or partners feelings or thoughts are not to be taken into consideration.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"surely if they have gone through the whole change the true state of affairs is what they are.

Thats like saying someone who lost a shit load of weight has to tell any meets that they used to be a fatty....how is it relevant?

So by that ,i take it that the potential meets or partners feelings or thoughts are not to be taken into consideration. "

What you don't know doesn't hurt you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can see both sides here , from Abi saying what you don't know can't hurt , to fine balls saying potential meets should know .

But we are talking about a minority group here , so political correctness will always win .

No point trying to see this through the eyes of an ordinary person , you will be seen as a narrow minded bigot .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Possibly by the time you have got to the point of looking at birth certificates etc you would of been open and honest about everything as that's what people who care for each other do

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

"surely if they have gone through the whole change the true state of affairs is what they are.

Thats like saying someone who lost a shit load of weight has to tell any meets that they used to be a fatty....how is it relevant?

So by that ,i take it that the potential meets or partners feelings or thoughts are not to be taken into consideration.

What you don't know doesn't hurt you.

Till your found out,

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By *vaneTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

Transgender people can have their Birth cirtificate changed if they have had the OP that law has been in place for about 8 years lol.

I had mine changed before the law changed because of my intersexed condition and it being ambigous but I had to go to court to do it.

Now an intersexed person cannot change the birth cirtificate the birth certificate has to match the persons actual gender as it is, this is so Transgendered people who have had the OP can marry as a female if they choose. If they havn't had the OP they are still classed as male for marriage and other purposes but there are special laws for TS people to aid in transition e.t.c

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