FabSwingers.com forum: Exorbitantly high interest loans! Is it time to stop them?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Ok this subject has got dragged into other threads and its an issue in itself. Should the government stop companies lending money at 1000% apr plus interest or even 50% apr. Is it immoral for people to lend a £10 and get back £100 and what should done with these companies? (Who are in the main from the USA where they have banned this sort of thing) Should the government should get involved in stopping them or should it be down to the individual to choose to borrow at exorbitant rates?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Start The Week covered some of this this morning, in the wider context of banking collapse and a borrowing culture.

The free market doesn't work in every case. It didn't with loosening banking regulations and I don't believe it does with loan rates.

When numeracy levels are so low people don't understand what they are borrowing. It should be regulated better with upper lending rates in percentages. To outlaw it will drive it too far into the knuckle duster door step lending market.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"The free market doesn't work in every case. It didn't with loosening banking regulations and I don't believe it does with loan rates."

Depends what you mean by 'work' it 'works' as a medium of exchange that allows those with capital to accumulate lots more of it.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Tax the bastards at the same sort of rates they apply to their loans.

Help the deficit, discourage exorbitant rates.

;-)

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"The free market doesn't work in every case. It didn't with loosening banking regulations and I don't believe it does with loan rates.

Depends what you mean by 'work' it 'works' as a medium of exchange that allows those with capital to accumulate lots more of it. "

It doesn't work to regulate itself and loan companies are unlikely to cap their rates voluntarily.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"The free market doesn't work in every case. It didn't with loosening banking regulations and I don't believe it does with loan rates.

Depends what you mean by 'work' it 'works' as a medium of exchange that allows those with capital to accumulate lots more of it.

It doesn't work to regulate itself and loan companies are unlikely to cap their rates voluntarily.

Of course it doesn't. The nearest that free marketeers have got to trying to convince people that the market is somehow benevolent is the straw-clutching excercise that is "the trickle down effect".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So easy for these companies to ruin lives, through my work I've seen cases where one missed payment has resulted in hundreds of pounds being taken the moment it hits a person's account.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, & the sadistic bastard bailiffs that they employ!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When people take these loans out they know full well how much is to be paid back at the end of the month and what the charges will be if they fail to repay it.

If you are selling something that people don't have to have , why should anyone be able to tell you how much you should charge for it when people can simply choose not to buy your product.

You know what it'll cost and you have the choice of buying it or not.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Seems loan sharking is OK provided your owned by big business and buy a licence...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe that this area should be strictly regulated with interest rate limits. The interest rates should still be higher than bank funding to mitigate the increased risk, but at the moment this business is preying on the vulnerable.

The only body that can change that is the govt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Govt should intervene , although I very much doubt they will. They need to do something as when Universal Credit comes in , a lot of people are going to find it hard to manage their finances. Personally I don't think it's been well thought out at all!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

there will always be a place for them, and why?

because banks want you to jump through more hoops than a single guy with no veri's on here lol.

banks wont lend a couple of hundred quid, wish they would.

half the time they arent interested in giving you an overdraft.

but, the problem is, people economic abilities.

a lot of people dont know how to use money properly, and so cant budget what they have, forget all the arguments about cost of living and blah blah, as most people dont need to live outside of their means, they choose to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Money Lenders will always exist in some shape or form, think back to Shylock in the Merchant of Venice and seeking his "pound of flesh". I would focus on educating kids about the need to live within their means. Unfortunately there is such rampant consumerism with everyone wanting their new trainers NOW, their new phone NOW, their new HD TV NOW, that as a society we have forgotten how to save before we spend. I think individuals have to take some responsibility but some regulation is also needed.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Not everyone understands the terms of the loan. As Lickety pointed out, we're not all numerate. This is particularly the case in the vulnerable section of the population that these companies target.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not everyone understands the terms of the loan. As Lickety pointed out, we're not all numerate. This is particularly the case in the vulnerable section of the population that these companies target."

I honestly don't see how say a TV advert for example somehow targets just the "vulnerable section of the population"

Is the corner shop keeper also preying on the vulnerable section of the population by selling someone a 100 fags and a bottle of booze ?

Companies offer products and services, they don't hold a gun to the head of someone to take them

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Other sections of society are far less likely to need the service and understand the implications.

The corner shop owner isn't selling a product only the poor may be desperate for and which many of them are less likely to understand.

People can say no. If they understand the implications.

Also when you have no credit on your utility meters, no food in the cuoboards and your bank account is empty, it's difficult to see that loan as anything other than a solution to the immediate problem. What happens afterwards is often eclipsed by the current need.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So just because some people cannot afford them or cannot understand them does that mean no body should be able to utilize them ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nothing to do with the companies ....it's the people who need to stop the borrowing ....that's where the companies get their revenue , people stop borrowing , they drop the rates to entice ...

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"So just because some people cannot afford them or cannot understand them does that mean no body should be able to utilize them ?"

You think anyone but the people who have absolutely no choice (i.e. the ones likely to be unable to afford the repayments) would want to use loan companies that charge 1000%, 2000%, 2500%, or more interest rates?

You have to be desperate to use them. That means poor. That means highly unlikely to be able to make the repayments.

Even if they can repay, it leaves them even shorter of money and the situation spirals out of control fast.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Money Lenders will always exist in some shape or form, think back to Shylock in the Merchant of Venice and seeking his "pound of flesh". I would focus on educating kids about the need to live within their means. Unfortunately there is such rampant consumerism with everyone wanting their new trainers NOW, their new phone NOW, their new HD TV NOW, that as a society we have forgotten how to save before we spend. I think individuals have to take some responsibility but some regulation is also needed."

this, by and large..

was brought up and have raised our kids with the ethos that if you cant afford it you either save or go without for the 'luxuries' in life..

education of how to use credit sensibly and within ones means and regulation as lets be honest some of these companies are no better than the thugs who prey on the vulnerable, the desperate and yes the less than articulate financially..

the nice suits and business logo's does'nt hide the reality..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nothing to do with the companies ....it's the people who need to stop the borrowing ....that's where the companies get their revenue , people stop borrowing , they drop the rates to entice ..."

Not that easy..

The banks wont lend them money they needs as they are a risk, these companies will and make lots of money from them.

never ending circle. or more a downward spiral.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So just because some people cannot afford them or cannot understand them does that mean no body should be able to utilize them ?

You have to be desperate to use them. That means poor. That means highly unlikely to be able to make the repayments.

Even if they can repay, it leaves them even shorter of money and the situation spirals out of control fast."

and again, thats not the fault of these companies, thats the fault of those that use them.

modern soceiety seems to feel the need to remove individual responsibility, rather more fervently target those that provide the service, or other things.

look at cases of people going into crime.

im sick of hearing it being about their upbringing.

its all excuses and, like i said, a lack of self control and responsibility

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Ah yes, blame the poor and desperate. Of course, how silly of me.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

it is staggering the rates you see mentioned... very scary indeed.

I really feel for the people whose circumstances change dramatically and find themselves with no other avenue.

Those who live from one month to the next, do little or no financial planning and find themselves in deep water, lesser so.

as with most things, some will accept full responsibility and do their utmost to get themselves

back on track.

some, it will be everyone else to blame because blah, blah, blah did it to me, it was unfair, I was left in the lurch, blah, blah, blah

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah yes, blame the poor and desperate. Of course, how silly of me."

its not about blaming anyone.

its about taking responsibility for ones own actions.

you say the poor and vulnerable, but lets be honest.

the real poor cant get loans from even these countries, and why? because they have no address, no home.

the 'poor' as you put it, usually use these loan companies to buy things they want, rather than meet a need, and it has been shown.

very very few of them use these loan companies to see them through the week, put food on the table, pay the bills, and even then, some of them will be owners of phones on monthly contracts, smoke, drink, have other less socially acceptable habits, and so on.

if i knoew someone that lived like a nun/monk, had no vices, and still couldnt meet their financial obligations, then i would be one of the first to lend them a hand until they get straight.

but very very few people that live on, or under, the breadline, have things they cant cut out so as to make the situation more bearable.

sorry VV, on this we have to disagree

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

It must be lovely to be in a place where one has no need to know, understand or even care what is happening to those at the very bottom of society's heirarchy.

You don't have to be on the streets to be poor but you're usually fighting to survive and not end up there.

The media like you to believe that the people using these "services" are doing so because they manage their money irresponsibly and want things they can't afford. The media are a mouthpiece for the government who want to turn ordinary people against one another and hide the reality of what their welfare "reforms" are doing to people.

When you have no food and no heat, which is a frequent reality for the poor, not because they manage their money poorly but because they simply don't have enough, where else do you turn? You don't think about next week because you are to desperate to try to survive this week.

Recently a man died in a freezing cold flat with no food in at all. He had been left without money for 14 weeks. That's no money at all. The DWP had called him in for an inter_iew but they had sent the letter to the wrong address. It was their mistake. The man missed the appointment and they stopped his benefit. He appealed but appeals take months (and the government are now considering changing people for making an appeal, to cut down the number bring made). 14 weeks later he died, still with his claim unresolved. He'd worked all his life up until that stage.

It's not an isolated case and is becoming more common.

Now, tell me that nobody is poor if they are not on the streets and anyone else just manages their money badly.

The level of ignorance of how some people live (or are trying to live) and wjat it's really like at the bottom of the heap, is as shocking as it is sad.

The have-nots aren't in a position to fight for themselves and most of the rest of society doesn't know what's happening or just doesn't care.

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By *uby0000Woman
over a year ago

hertfordshire

I once asked the bank for a small loan yet after showing I could pay it back and having loans from them before which were fully paid with no problems they refused

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

there are ways and means to fight for ones right to live.

there is no need to sit in your home and bemoan your situation, there are many avenues togo down to better ones immediate situation.

i am by no means well off, or flush, at all, but manage what income i have, and so far, have been lucky to stay on top, or ahead of things.

had a bit of a scare over xmas, but have managed to come through it, so i am not ignorant to people problems, or of those that havent.

we never had much growing up so it gives you a greater sense of what you have and what you need, rather than what you want.

if the shit hits the fan and i fall out of work, i will not be sitting at home slowly starving and freezing myself to death,thats for damned sure.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Here's the story: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gloating-tories-dont-care-people-3022783

He didn't sit at home and moan. He tried to get help. Nobody cares.

There are more details of the story via Google if anyone chooses to be dismissive of the source of the link above.

The people able to fight and get listened to are the ones that don't need the help.

It's a disgrace the fortunate are blaming the less fortunate for being persecuted, sometimes to death.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ok this subject has got dragged into other threads and its an issue in itself. Should the government stop companies lending money at 1000% apr plus interest or even 50% apr. Is it immoral for people to lend a £10 and get back £100 and what should done with these companies? (Who are in the main from the USA where they have banned this sort of thing) Should the government should get involved in stopping them or should it be down to the individual to choose to borrow at exorbitant rates?"

They only have those silly percentages because they're meant to be short term loans or a few Weeks but the government regulations require.them.to give the interest in apr which is annual.

of you borrow a tenner from a mate and he says ok give me eleven quid tomorrow that's a 3,650% apr loan.

But of course you're not keeping it for a year

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

They only have those silly percentages because they're meant to be short term loans or a few Weeks but the government regulations require.them.to give the interest in apr which is annual.

of you borrow a tenner from a mate and he says ok give me eleven quid tomorrow that's a 3,650% apr loan.

But of course you're not keeping it for a year"

That's fine, if you can pay it back.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here's the story: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gloating-tories-dont-care-people-3022783

He didn't sit at home and moan. He tried to get help. Nobody cares.

It's a disgrace the fortunate are blaming the less fortunate for being persecuted, sometimes to death."

He died of liver failure because he was a long term alcoholic. That would have happened of he had been homless or the king of England.

The DWP didn't kill him, he killed himself

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

[Removed by poster at 25/02/14 11:42:20]

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Here's the story: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gloating-tories-dont-care-people-3022783

He didn't sit at home and moan. He tried to get help. Nobody cares.

It's a disgrace the fortunate are blaming the less fortunate for being persecuted, sometimes to death.

He died of liver failure because he was a long term alcoholic. That would have happened of he had been homless or the king of England.

The DWP didn't kill him, he killed himself"

He was a recovering alcoholic.

Do you not think being left without food and warmth might have had something to do with his death?

He'd worked until a year before.

Without the DWP error he could well have lived and continued rrcovering.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So just because some people cannot afford them or cannot understand them does that mean no body should be able to utilize them ?

You have to be desperate to use them. That means poor. That means highly unlikely to be able to make the repayments.

Even if they can repay, it leaves them even shorter of money and the situation spirals out of control fast."

But that's it they don't charge 2000% it's a fixed fee for a fixed time.then it goes to a different contract of you don't pay after so long.

if they charged even 20% they'd not even get back the cost it took to have the secretary print the paperwork for the loan

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Way to help people... take people trying to recover and get back on track and stop all their money for 14 weeks.

That won't cause any stress or impact on their ability to help themselves at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Recovering alcoholic doesn't mean you're getting better it just means you've reduced your alcohol intake, your liver is still toast from years of poisoning

only way he was.going to live was with a transplant and as an old single male who destroyed his liver through drink, he's going to be very low on that list

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Way to help people... take people trying to recover and get back on track and stop all their money for 14 weeks.

That won't cause any stress or impact on their ability to help themselves at all.

Well maybe he should have gone to his meeting instead of going on holiday.

My.work tends to stop paying me if I stop.turning up to

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have never taken out a pay day loan, but I do have two loans out with mainstream banks (outstanding balance of the the is about £13k)

One thing I always remember about payday loans is something Martin Lewis said on Daybreak one morning;

I think first of all, to go back to basics, one of the great problems is that the APR percentages that companies are asked to produce are a farcical nonsense when it comes to short-term borrowing. I always use this example, and we will have a smile since it is a Tuesday morning. If we were in a pub and you said, "Lend me £20," and I said, "I will give you £20 but buy me a pint next week," and the pint cost £3, that is —I will not test you—143,000% APR. That is the problem with APR regulation on short-term borrowing because £3 on £20, over a week, if you compound it over a year becomes 143,000%.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Way to help people... take people trying to recover and get back on track and stop all their money for 14 weeks.

That won't cause any stress or impact on their ability to help themselves at all.

Well maybe he should have gone to his meeting instead of going on holiday.

My.work tends to stop paying me if I stop.turning up to"

You noticed the bit that said he was an alcoholic (but missed "recovering") but didn't see the part that explained why he missed the meeting? He didn't know about it because DWP sent the letter to the wrong address, (not the address he gave them)!

His fault for being poor, ill and not telepathic?

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Recovering alcoholic doesn't mean you're getting better it just means you've reduced your alcohol intake, your liver is still toast from years of poisoning

only way he was.going to live was with a transplant and as an old single male who destroyed his liver through drink, he's going to be very low on that list"

51 - hardly old.

Recovering could mean he'd given up completely. Possibly a while ago.

Can you back up the accusation he was still drinking? Can you provide medical evidence to show he needed a liver transplant? Is there medical evidence to show he only had 14 weeks to live before this happened.

Ye gods. The government propaganda machine really is doing its job.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

Information published by the CAB who are trying to stop these companies targetting the vulnerable:

Well, evidence from our payday loan tracker and analysis of our bureau data show that lenders are pressurising struggling borrowers to extend loans, lending to people under 18 and harassing people in debt. If we can stop lenders targeting vulnerable people through these adverts we may be able to stop people getting into unnecessary debt in the first place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It must be lovely to be in a place where one has no need to know, understand or even care what is happening to those at the very bottom of society's heirarchy.

You don't have to be on the streets to be poor but you're usually fighting to survive and not end up there.

It's not an isolated case and is becoming more common.

Now, tell me that nobody is poor if they are not on the streets and anyone else just manages their money badly.

The level of ignorance of how some people live (or are trying to live) and wjat it's really like at the bottom of the heap, is as shocking as it is sad.

The have-nots aren't in a position to fight for themselves and most of the rest of society doesn't know what's happening or just doesn't care."

The year before last whilst claiming JSA I had my money stopped for 12 weeks because they didn't believe I was really split up from my ex. Crisis Loans are routinely refused, if you try and phone them from the free phones in the job centre they refuse to deal with the claim, so you go away phone them and get turned down for a crisis loan, then you have to write a letter of appeal and take it back to the job centre to be faxed to them and then wait 24 hours to hear back. Was asked why I couldn't continue to borrow money off of my pensioner mum who was in Hong Kong at the time, I was asked if I'd never heard of bank transfers…

After writing a snotty 3 sides of A4 letter to the job centre I received a call from the manager to explain they could not process my claim as the person with my files was on holiday.

After 11 weeks and a short 10 minute inter_iew with the fraud officer I received payments a week later.

During this time I was unemployed my doctor had diagnosed me with depression whereas the nurse from Atos said I wasn't.

To sanction someone's money completely is wrong. I was fortunate that I lived close to friends and family who let me use their phones and cut me out dinners etc. If they were to sanction a proportion of peoples money rather than all of it, it would be a more sensible solution.

I'm not a life time claimer, I've had 3 shortish periods of unemployment since 1986, when I haven't been able to work in my desired sector I've worked plenty of non skilled jobs, including flipping burgers in a van.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Way to help people... take people trying to recover and get back on track and stop all their money for 14 weeks.

That won't cause any stress or impact on their ability to help themselves at all.

Well maybe he should have gone to his meeting instead of going on holiday.

My.work tends to stop paying me if I stop.turning up to

His fault for being poor, ill and not telepathic?"

No I saw the but where he told the dwp he missed because he was on holiday I also noticed the letter went to the wrong address is what his friend says, who'd probably a but of an unreliable narrator.

I still don't understand why you think the fact he was a "recovering" alcoholic makes any difference to the fact he'd already done so much damage to his liver it failed.

It was dying nothing can fix that.

Just like if you take a very big paracetamol OD you can survive heck might even get over your depression but your still going to die in a few months time when your liver finally fails.

Stopping drinking will not cute the long term effects of being an alcoholic just like stopping smoking won't cure your lung cancer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Recovering alcoholic doesn't mean you're getting better it just means you've reduced your alcohol intake, your liver is still toast from years of poisoning

only way he was.going to live was with a transplant and as an old single male who destroyed his liver through drink, he's going to be very low on that list

51 - hardly old.

Recovering could mean he'd given up completely. Possibly a while ago.

Ye gods. The government propaganda machine really is doing its job."

51 is old on transplant lists.

And yes I can provide medical evidence he needed a liver transplant....he died of liver failure

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally, I cringe when I hear the lone shark adverts on the radio, especially when the T&C is sped through at an almost undecipherable rate; this in itself says everything I need to know about them!!

But I can't help but feel for the vulnerable who are sucked in.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

These lenders are on the high street and advertising on the television. It doesn't feel risky or the same as dealing with the old door knocking loan sharks.

I was doing some work with some leading advice centres on what their case load looks like around loan defaults and debt advice. More and more the cases they are seeing are the in-work poor who take these loans out once a month to manage their cashflow. If their hours are cut or costs such as rent go up they then get into serious problems and the £100 monthly loan doesn't get paid back and soon becomes a £600 debt. Then they are sunk.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Recovering alcoholic doesn't mean you're getting better it just means you've reduced your alcohol intake, your liver is still toast from years of poisoning

only way he was.going to live was with a transplant and as an old single male who destroyed his liver through drink, he's going to be very low on that list

51 - hardly old.

Recovering could mean he'd given up completely. Possibly a while ago.

Ye gods. The government propaganda machine really is doing its job.

51 is old on transplant lists.

And yes I can provide medical evidence he needed a liver transplant....he died of liver failure"

He died of liver failure after a really traumatic 14 week period. It could have been enough to tip anyone over the edge, never mind someone with health problems.

Livers regenerate in time. You have no idea for how long he was an alcoholic or the extent of the damage to his liver. You don't know he would not have survived without a transplant.

If he'd been in recovery for a while, his liver would already have been repairing itself.

I'm fairly sure that without the actions of the DWP, this guy would have lived more than 14 weeks.

Oh, and the DWP claimed he said he didn't go because he was on holiday. It's not like the DWP would lie to try to save their own arses having made a mistake, eh?

If the guy had not gone to the appointment because he was on holiday, the sanction would have stood. As it was, it was overturned and the payments backdated. Therefore the DWP made a mistake. They wouldn't reverse the decision otherwise.

It's been verified that the letter went to the wrong address and that information is available on sites I am not allowed to link to. It's there for anyone who CARES to look for it.

Still, one more dead benefit claimant, it all helps reduce the deficit.

Watch out for shower blocks installed by the DWP coming to an area near you soon.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

" If their hours are cut or costs such as rent go up they then get into serious problems and the £100 monthly loan doesn't get paid back and soon becomes a £600 debt. Then they are sunk.

or they have enough to meet their core expenses but don't see the extras as luxuries. Some just need to cut their cloth differently.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"These lenders are on the high street and advertising on the television. It doesn't feel risky or the same as dealing with the old door knocking loan sharks.

It's their own fault for being poor apparently, Lickety. And if they aren't on the street begging then they aren't really poor.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah yes, blame the poor and desperate. Of course, how silly of me."

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"........

It's their own fault for being poor apparently, Lickety. And if they aren't on the street begging then they aren't really poor."

Even if the ARE on the streets begging, the Tory press would have us believe they're all being dropped off and picked up by Range Rover and sharing babies to add to the tear jerking effect.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Some just need to cut their cloth differently."

Some do but it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of people in this country now that simply do not have enough money to live on, even without frills and luxuries.

That some of these people actually do work makes it that much worse.

The government really are doing a sterling job of setting ordinary people against each other.

People are dying from poverty in this country.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"........

It's their own fault for being poor apparently, Lickety. And if they aren't on the street begging then they aren't really poor.

Even if the ARE on the streets begging, the Tory press would have us believe they're all being dropped off and picked up by Range Rover and sharing babies to add to the tear jerking effect."

In some areas police have been harrassing those living on the streets as a result of orders from above.

It's illegal to be homeless now, apparently.

They'd better get those shower blocks out quickly.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"Some just need to cut their cloth differently.

Some do but it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of people in this country now that simply do not have enough money to live on, even without frills and luxuries.

That some of these people actually do work makes it that much worse.

The government really are doing a sterling job of setting ordinary people against each other.

People are dying from poverty in this country."

I dont disagree, there are very very poor people.

but there are also those who claim to be, who are not.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

" If their hours are cut or costs such as rent go up they then get into serious problems and the £100 monthly loan doesn't get paid back and soon becomes a £600 debt. Then they are sunk.

or they have enough to meet their core expenses but don't see the extras as luxuries. Some just need to cut their cloth differently.

Yes and that was one of the areas we were looking at on how to record the work being done with those seeking debt advice. The information isn't useful for asking for the government to intervene if every case study can be pulled apart because little Johnny got the most expensive football boots etc.

Unfortunately we are in the land of the deserving and undeserving poor rhetoric now.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Some just need to cut their cloth differently.

Some do but it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of people in this country now that simply do not have enough money to live on, even without frills and luxuries.

That some of these people actually do work makes it that much worse.

The government really are doing a sterling job of setting ordinary people against each other.

People are dying from poverty in this country.

I dont disagree, there are very very poor people.

but there are also those who claim to be, who are not."

Yes, you are right, I don't dispute.

Some who use payday loans could manage their money better. Some really don't have much choice.

Either way those people need the appropriate help, be that financial assistance or financial education.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"Unfortunately we are in the land of the deserving and undeserving poor rhetoric now."

Nobody "deserves" to scrape an existence unless they genuinely do not want to work.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"Some just need to cut their cloth differently.

Some do but it doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of people in this country now that simply do not have enough money to live on, even without frills and luxuries.

That some of these people actually do work makes it that much worse.

The government really are doing a sterling job of setting ordinary people against each other.

People are dying from poverty in this country.

I dont disagree, there are very very poor people.

but there are also those who claim to be, who are not.

Yes, you are right, I don't dispute.

Some who use payday loans could manage their money better. Some really don't have much choice.

Either way those people need the appropriate help, be that financial assistance or financial education."

1000% agree,

and the banks/credit card companies didn't help for a long time, you had to default before they would put together a repayment plan. Now they spend a lot focusing on customers who are struggling and frontline people are assessed on whether they picked up on finanacial difficulty signals.

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

I still hate the claim, or even the implication that everyone has enough to live on, they just need to manage it better. Some people have their head in the sand completely.

(Not aimed at you View, because I know you haven't said this. I have heard it multiple times on here and in the "real world" though)

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"I still hate the claim, or even the implication that everyone has enough to live on, they just need to manage it better. Some people have their head in the sand completely.

(Not aimed at you View, because I know you haven't said this. I have heard it multiple times on here and in the "real world" though)"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My main gripe with these companies is the extent of the advertising. The companies make their loans sound attractive, easily manageable, not risky, using colourful friendly fun images to sell a loan. The risk seems miminal to those who adhere to the rules, who do pay back on time, etc, but I would imagine that their client list is not made up of those customers, but those who struggle to get credit from established, reputable companies.

The targeting vulnerable by email offering more credit etc is unnacceptable. Ive never used a payday loan, I have used an overdraft facility, but I would bet that those who do are bombarded with offers from other less reputable companies. I think its very very wrong.

I feel some people have blinkers on if they believe that customers who use these loans do so to buy 100 inch flat screen tvs etc. I expect some do, but I expect you'll also find those who use them have little option if they want to feed and keep their children warm and they have no other avenues.

I feel desperately sorry for those who are caught up in the vicious cycle of debt and have compassion for them. I dont buy the hard hearted _iew that they should have read the small print, dealt with the letters, etc. Some blame has to be laid at the door of the unscrupulous money lenders.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Well some interesting responses and some weird ones that are well off the mark though I would say the advertising is aimed at amusing rather than giving sound advice. Oh and for the misinformed they have to put the interest rates up for a min of 1/3 of the tv add though I doubt people take notice. I would say people don’t deserve poverty but you can see its coming for many watching kids on tv in classrooms not giving a fuck and not getting the education to avoid later pitfalls in life. I think the way to go is credit unions however I have been told that credit unions wouldn’t lend to many the payday loans will lend to as more than 50% have little intention of repaying if they can avoid it. I think the only real way of solving this would be to not give credit at all and make people save to purchase things after all we can’t all have everything we want there and then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

government intervention? perhaps a few minutes on the google machine will show you whos priorities are being looked after. simply look up adrian beecroft, the man behind wonga, large donor to the tory party, friend and backer to david cameron, advisor to him on employment rights and benefit changes, a member of his paid for access dinner club, and the man who recommends that new benefit claimants wait a week minimum before receiving any money.the wonga week! welcome to 21st century de(mock)racy.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"government intervention? perhaps a few minutes on the google machine will show you whos priorities are being looked after. simply look up adrian beecroft, the man behind wonga, large donor to the tory party, friend and backer to david cameron, advisor to him on employment rights and benefit changes, a member of his paid for access dinner club, and the man who recommends that new benefit claimants wait a week minimum before receiving any money.the wonga week! welcome to 21st century de(mock)racy.

But Wonga is run by strange old people who scare and reassure in equal measure. They care about us.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

The government really are doing a sterling job of setting ordinary people against each other."

divide and conquer..

some dont wish to see the bigger picture for whatever their reasons..

its easy to scapegoat whichever 'group' when some will choose to be led by certain elements within the media..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The way I look at things, if someone chooses to use these companies to get loans, there is normally a hidden agenda ie they can't get money through normal channel, so they are classed as high risk, now ask yourself this if you loaned a friend X amount of money and they never paid you back. Would you lend to them again. I think not

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The sole purpose of advertising is not meant to amuse, the companies dont fork out millions of pounds for prime time slots just to make us smile.

The Wonga ads for instance, ahh those old people, dont they make you smile, and the things they say; why wait for money, it doesnt cost you that much, all your worries will be cast away, its safe, we care etc etc.

Never underestimate the power of subliminal advertising.

I wonder if they used a couple of hard faced bailiffs telling us that its easy to get a loan, but if you fuck up we'll be round, banging on your door, shouting threats through the letterbox. Why dont the company use the realistic approach? Because they want as many people to be drawn in and those who are desperate will do.

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