FabSwingers.com forum: Scottish independence?

By *aro7 OP Man
over a year ago

wickford

Thoughts,

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Dead in the water.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

one mans ego with a hint of bigotry..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Could go either way, I hope the UK survives intact, think it's better for both sides of the border.

But the "No UK£ Union statement" is not a game changer they could shadow the £ and if 2 or so years latter that seems to be stable then would be the right time to talk fiscal union, it's about a 5 year route to become part of the Euro apparently.

What is annoying is the SNP spokespersons on the news saying it's all a bluff and there will be a currency union no matter what the 3 parties say!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

It's interesting that Salmond is now saying that if the rest of us dont give him what he wants then he will not accept Scotland's share of the national debt if he wins the independence vote. Guess we are going to see more and more of the real SNP face as the consequences of Scottish independance become more and more unavoidable.

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

It's dead in the water now there will be no unified currency.

I am always suspicious of Salmond's motives. I can't help feeling some of it is just his own personal aspirations. I have this mental picture of him going to bed at night all tucked up cuddling his teddy and smiling as he dreams of being King of Scotland with a crown and a throne!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Dead in the water."

Until Duncan appears!!

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By *aveandSue1Couple
over a year ago

Doncaster

"one mans ego with a hint of bigotry.."

Very very true.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An idealistic _iew and wrong solution to a much bigger problem.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

It's no surprise that all of the main parties are saying that they won't support a currency union: that much was obvious from Mark Carney's announcements last month.

The bluster that this is nonsense and is bullying the Scots annoys me now. Why isn't it bullying for them to say that the rest of the Union has to give them everything they ask for if they choose to separate from the Union?

I'm annoyed with Dave Cameron too though. How bloody stupid to give a speech in the Olympic Park, harking BACK to 2012, asking the rest of us to persuade the good people of Scotland to stick with us? We don't have a vote. Wouldn't it have been better for him to speak from the new Commonwealth Games site talking about the value of the Union and how much the rest of us want them to stay?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

its not just the way that all 3 parties said no to a currency union.... it was the way that osbourne point by point in plain english dismantled every position in the SNP's White paper...

They are so going to regret the line saying that "currency union is a temporary arrangement" because it gives the chancellor ammo to say how long? will you bolt? how long? not sticking out the bad times? ect ect.....

dead in the water......

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"It's interesting that Salmond is now saying that if the rest of us dont give him what he wants then he will not accept Scotland's share of the national debt if he wins the independence vote. Guess we are going to see more and more of the real SNP face as the consequences of Scottish independance become more and more unavoidable."

they do that.... no one will lend to scotland... if it does it will be at such high rates it would cripple them....

also if they did that, I am guessing the UK would veto Scotland joining the EU.....

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

they do that.... no one will lend to scotland... if it does it will be at such high rates it would cripple them....

also if they did that, I am guessing the UK would veto Scotland joining the EU....."

hmmm.. so what are we saying here - that the price of Scottish independence would be emnity with the rest of the UK?

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By *rumCoupleCouple
over a year ago

birmingham

they do that.... no one will lend to scotland... if it does it will be at such high rates it would cripple them....

also if they did that, I am guessing the UK would veto Scotland joining the EU....."

I think membership of the EU is now decided by qualified majority.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

they do that.... no one will lend to scotland... if it does it will be at such high rates it would cripple them....

also if they did that, I am guessing the UK would veto Scotland joining the EU....."

Forget the UK using its veto, the Spanish will, they have even told Scotland what they will do (couched in diplomatic language of course). But Duncan and the rest of the tiny scotlanders keep saying that the Spanish PM was not talking to them but to the Catalans... Bet the Catalans will hear the message when Spain blocks an independent Scotland's entry into the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they vote for full independence,then let there be FULL independence.

Surely its only logical that if they are independent, then they will have full control of their own currency.

Using Sterling would be like trying to run the country only as the UK tell them.

No access to borrowing or ability to control tax or interest rates.

Looks like Mr Salmond will not get his Crown afterall.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

they do that.... no one will lend to scotland... if it does it will be at such high rates it would cripple them....

also if they did that, I am guessing the UK would veto Scotland joining the EU.....

I think membership of the EU is now decided by qualified majority."

Scotland is not a member of the EU, the UK is. If Scotland leaves the UK then it leaves the EU and to be allowed independent membership would require all member states to agree. Of course an independent Scotland can of course apply to join the EU. The process is quite simple. First they will have to become signatories to the European Human Rights Convention and show that they fully comply with it. Then they will have to show that they have a stable economy and currency that is converging with the EU and will not destabilize the Euro. Then on joining the EU they will have to also join the Euro...Takes between 5 and 10 years...

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

The silence from the usual cybernat suspects is deafening.

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

"The silence from the usual cybernat suspects is deafening."

Far an taine ‘n abhainn, ‘s ann as mò a fuaim.Cha d’dhùin doras nach d’fhosgail doras.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

hmmm.. so what are we saying here - that the price of Scottish independence would be emnity with the rest of the UK?"

nope... what I am saying is that if salmond carries out his threat of saying they will take none of the UK debt if they dont have the currency union (as alex likes the gleefully say... its all underwritten by the bank of england and the UK government) then the UK would likely counter by making it harder for scotland to join the EU... or make them take the much, much longer route....

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

hmmm.. so what are we saying here - that the price of Scottish independence would be emnity with the rest of the UK?

And what response did you expect from the SNP? Bear in mind here that it's Osborne who fired the first shot.

Would you not agree that there's a clear message here from Westminster? Specifically that they mean to make things as difficult as possible for us if we vote for independence?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

hmmm.. so what are we saying here - that the price of Scottish independence would be emnity with the rest of the UK?

And what response did you expect from the SNP? Bear in mind here that it's Osborne who fired the first shot.

Would you not agree that there's a clear message here from Westminster? Specifically that they mean to make things as difficult as possible for us if we vote for independence?"

Did Osborne fire the first shot? Mark Carney set out the tests that would have to be met and both sides would have to cede sovereignty. The questions this raised weren't answered by the SNP at that time. Stating the UK position is needed to stability of sterling. At the moment the UK includes Scotland until there is a yes vote.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

they do that.... no one will lend to scotland... if it does it will be at such high rates it would cripple them....

also if they did that, I am guessing the UK would veto Scotland joining the EU.....

hmmm.. so what are we saying here - that the price of Scottish independence would be emnity with the rest of the UK?"

I guess it makes a change from the usual Scottish enmity towards England.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

And what response did you expect from the SNP? Bear in mind here that it's Osborne who fired the first shot.

nope... this time it was Alex who fired the first shot when the white paper was released.....

when asked if there was a plan b if the uk govt decided against currency union, he said there was no plan b, and he was the one who explicitly said if the UK govt didn't give in to this demand, a scottish govt may decide to not take on their part of the UK debt....

so maybe alex should tell people what plan b actually is....

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

hmmm.. so what are we saying here - that the price of Scottish independence would be emnity with the rest of the UK?

And what response did you expect from the SNP? Bear in mind here that it's Osborne who fired the first shot.

Would you not agree that there's a clear message here from Westminster? Specifically that they mean to make things as difficult as possible for us if we vote for independence?

I would certainly have to say yes - he did. It's long been the Government's stance that they will not pre-negotiate Scotland's exit from the union, and that's been the case until today. In ruling out currency union Osborne has also ruled out the possibility for an amicable split.

Frankly I welcome his decision. Uncertainty has dogged this debate for too long. At least now we know where we stand...

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

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By *rumCoupleCouple
over a year ago

birmingham

Would you not agree that there's a clear message here from Westminster? Specifically that they mean to make things as difficult as possible for us if we vote for independence?"

I think the message is that the tail shouldn't try and wag the dog.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"The silence from the usual cybernat suspects is deafening.

Far an taine ‘n abhainn, ‘s ann as mò a fuaim.Cha d’dhùin doras nach d’fhosgail doras."

Not being a gaelic speaker it has taken me a little time to find your quote...

For everyone else that equally did not understand:

It says where the river is shallow it makes most noise...

I always find that rivers make most noise at the bottom of waterfalls and that people on the banks make most noise when they see fools being swept towards the falls and are quietest just before the brink of the fall...

But I will bow to the Scotts determined to go over the edge because they cant see or hear anything to worry them.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Frankly I welcome his decision. Uncertainty has dogged this debate for too long. At least now we know where we stand..."

see you say this is osbourne decision, and I know you want to frame it as a "scots vs tories" arguement... but there is a problem...

it was backed up by ed balls, and danny alexander.......

see.. whats in it for the rest of the UK if the scots see this as a "temporary arrangement" (not my words... the words used in the white paper!) where is the stability for the UK... if thing get bad, would you just bugger off anyway leaving the rest of the uk with the burden....

thats why the words "temporary arrangement" will come back to haunt....

those two words may well be the ones to kill the campaign....

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Frankly I welcome his decision. Uncertainty has dogged this debate for too long. At least now we know where we stand...

see you say this is osbourne decision, and I know you want to frame it as a "scots vs tories" arguement... but there is a problem...

it was backed up by ed balls, and danny alexander.......

thats why the words "temporary arrangement" will come back to haunt....

those two words may well be the ones to kill the campaign...."

Exactly! Osborne and the others have clarified that there can be no temporary agreement in order to protect sterling now and after the vote. They have looked at Mark Carney's advice and taken a decision. Stating that is not casting the first blow.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's not Salmond's _iew- it's what will happen if Scotland is not part of the UK monetary system- we wlll have no requirement to pay a share that debt- if we aren't part of it, why should we?

It's a mind-numbingly difficult subject but I think that's why the SNP are so sure Westminster is bluffing, because the rest of the UK will lose £billions in repayments to Scotland and the bulk of the bank debt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I like it that they wont have the pounds, i was laughing lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Far an taine ‘n abhainn, ‘s ann as mò a fuaim.Cha d’dhùin doras nach d’fhosgail doras.

Not being a gaelic speaker it has taken me a little time to find your quote...

For everyone else that equally did not understand:

It says where the river is shallow it makes most noise...

It also says, when one door closes, another door opens.... how true.

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

Frankly I welcome his decision. Uncertainty has dogged this debate for too long. At least now we know where we stand...

see you say this is osbourne decision, and I know you want to frame it as a "scots vs tories" arguement... but there is a problem...

it was backed up by ed balls, and danny alexander.......

thats why the words "temporary arrangement" will come back to haunt....

those two words may well be the ones to kill the campaign...."

I think you'll find that in any of my posts on this subject I've framed them in terms of Scots vs. Westminster. I bear no love for Labour or the Lib Dems - all 3 parties are equally complicit in the corruption of Westminster.

I'll agree that there are risks in a temporary arrangement, but honestly... no negotiation whatsoever? that seems crazy to me - there could have been any number of deals struck over that arrangement - minimum length of union? a requirement for Scotland to pay down a portion of the debt before being able to leave it? whatever - I'm sure if they had set their mind to it, both sides could have come to some kind of satisfactory agreement.

This ruling benefits no-one and it's saddening that this is now the course that the debate must follow.

You reckon the white paper was the first shot? From my perspective it was an olive branch - something both countries could have benefited from. Maybe that's why there is no plan B - cos the alternative is that both countries suffer...

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"You reckon the white paper was the first shot? From my perspective it was an olive branch - something both countries could have benefited from. Maybe that's why there is no plan B - cos the alternative is that both countries suffer..."

You really think that if it comes to a real fight that you will do real damage to the UK.

Let me spell it out for you. Scotland votes for independence and when it is refused the use of the £ it refuses to accept its part of the national debt...

UK borrowing goes from 80% of GDP to 90/95% of GDP, and we suck this up.

But actions have consequences, we and Spain block your continued membership of the EU, we close the Scottish border and impose import and export taxes on all goods and services over the border, refuse to hand over any military equipment (that includes RN vessels) and remove naval cover to the Scottish oil fields.

How long do you think all those foreign companies that are based in the Scottish central belt to are going to hang around when their access to the EU being removed? How long do you think it will take RBS to relocate to London or somewhere else? And seeing as your countrys first economic act will have been to default on its share of its national debt as part of the UK, who do you think will lend you anything or trust your country in any way? What ever you decide to call your currency do you think anyone will want it?

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

You really think that if it comes to a real fight that you will do real damage to the UK.

Let me spell it out for you. Scotland votes for independence and when it is refused the use of the £ it refuses to accept its part of the national debt...

UK borrowing goes from 80% of GDP to 90/95% of GDP, and we suck this up.

Ah - there we are

Hello project fear

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

You really think that if it comes to a real fight that you will do real damage to the UK.

Let me spell it out for you. Scotland votes for independence and when it is refused the use of the £ it refuses to accept its part of the national debt...

UK borrowing goes from 80% of GDP to 90/95% of GDP, and we suck this up.

Oh my goodness me.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".......... And seeing as your countrys first economic act will have been to default on its share of its national debt as part of the UK, who do you think will lend you anything or trust your country in any way? What ever you decide to call your currency do you think anyone will want it?"

If Eck reckons it's OK to default on debt, will it be OK for Scots to refuse to pay their mortgages or loans, just because they owe the money to non-Scottish lenders?

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By *aro7 OP Man
over a year ago

wickford

I don't like haggis!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

No not project fear...

Just telling you what will happen if you keep on the course you're on...

In fact I have to say the SNP and their followers remind me of a rather small d*unken, sullen and violent teenager who is picking a fight with the very mild mannered old man who sits in the corner of the bar under all the boxing cuttings.

It's never pleasant when the old man breaks the kids jaw when the kid hits the boxer who the kid thinks is 'dissing him!'

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't like haggis!

In the increasingly unlikely event of Separation, it won't be compulsory - nor will Gaelic.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

You really think that if it comes to a real fight that you will do real damage to the UK.

Let me spell it out for you. Scotland votes for independence and when it is refused the use of the £ it refuses to accept its part of the national debt...

UK borrowing goes from 80% of GDP to 90/95% of GDP, and we suck this up.

Spot on

It's time many people in Scotland started thinking about the real consequences of a split.

I seriously doubt that Scotland would be allowed to join the EU. It certainly wouldn't be without a time frame for adopting the Euro, maybe that is what Salmond means by "temporary arrangement"

Maybe the UK will veto it, Spain certainly will, and I wouldn't be too reliant on the Germans who have their own problems with Bavarian nationalism. Even the French could play the black ball as Basque and Catalan independence would affect them as well.

Personally I think Scotland would be much better off with independence but for totally different reasons to Salmond.

Scotland with its own currency, and low tax rates, could re-invent Edinburgh as the tartan Zurich or Geneva, and nick a load of business from London in the process. Add to that oil and whisky production and Scotland could go it alone. Alas Salmond is too much of a coward to offer that version, so he just keeps playing with smoke and mirrors promising the Scottish people that all will be the same to get his yes vote.

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

"No not project fear...

Just telling you what will happen if you keep on the course you're on...

It's never pleasant when the old man breaks the kids jaw when the kid hits the boxer who the kid thinks is 'dissing him!'"

lol - you should try that wee speech on Onny. That kind of thing totally works on him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No not project fear...

Just telling you what will happen if you keep on the course you're on...

It's never pleasant when the old man breaks the kids jaw when the kid hits the boxer who the kid thinks is 'dissing him!'"

Please please please could you come to Scotland and say this out loud?

You could my life's dream come true.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Ah - there we are

Hello project fear

see... the problem is that this final part isn't project fear... its the actual ecomonic argument put forward by most economists...

it was stated by mark carney.... it is stated in the treasury analysis....

the last "currency union" was between the czech republic and slovakia.... it lasted 33 days....

why?

because major business's in the former big country basically moved all their major headquarters from bratislava (the slovak captial) to Prague (the czech republic)

its that "S" word again... Stability

which is not something they would have the scottish "temporary arrangement" (see those two words coming back up again... and again)

big companies would move HQ and money from Edinburgh to anywhere down south, the Scottish banks have a larger GDP than the government so you would not be able to bail them out......

ecomonically a currency union would be in an independent scotland's best interest... but not in the "rest of uk" best interest.....

So again, What is "plan b"?

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By *andACouple
over a year ago

glasgow

'Project fear' and 'Scaremongering' are used on an almost daily basis by the SNP when they are faced with some facts they don't like. Which is often.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

regardless of which side of the debate one is on, would anyone enter into a financial arrangement be that as lender or borrower and sign the 'contract' which has 'temporary agreement' as the main part of it..?

no time frame, interest rate, penalties etc etc..

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

You really think that if it comes to a real fight that you will do real damage to the UK.

Let me spell it out for you. Scotland votes for independence and when it is refused the use of the £ it refuses to accept its part of the national debt...

UK borrowing goes from 80% of GDP to 90/95% of GDP, and we suck this up.

Spot on

It's time many people in Scotland started thinking about the real consequences of a split.

I seriously doubt that Scotland would be allowed to join the EU. It certainly wouldn't be without a time frame for adopting the Euro, maybe that is what Salmond means by "temporary arrangement"

Personally I think Scotland would be much better off with independence but for totally different reasons to Salmond.

Not all of us who support Independence are SNP supporters. Until recently I was fairly ambivalent about Independence, but have chatted with my 25 year old daughter who, it turned out, is very well informed, as are a large number of her generation. As a direct result, I have looked at what is being said and more and more am becoming convinced that Independence could be great for Scotland and the people living and working here.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"No not project fear...

Just telling you what will happen if you keep on the course you're on...

It's never pleasant when the old man breaks the kids jaw when the kid hits the boxer who the kid thinks is 'dissing him!'

lol - you should try that wee speech on Onny. That kind of thing totally works on him

Funny thing is I understand that Onny is an ex matelot, I'm an ex booty and I am sure we have a lot more in common that you would guess, (including knowing bars where things like that happen).

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By *aro7 OP Man
over a year ago

wickford

Ally mccoist,,,,,,

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Not all of us who support Independence are SNP supporters. Until recently I was fairly ambivalent about Independence, but have chatted with my 25 year old daughter who, it turned out, is very well informed, as are a large number of her generation. As a direct result, I have looked at what is being said and more and more am becoming convinced that Independence could be great for Scotland and the people living and working here. "

i personally would not want it but if the people vote for it then thats democracy and we all should respect that..

i just dont see that the case has been made, think with some it will be a 'popular' decision for their own reasons..

others will have looked into it like your daughter and some will go along with their friends and hope that it works out..

if the yes campaign were that confident that it would work out why hav'nt the global financial types got on booard..

when one of your kids leaves home, some need a help with the financial side (especially nowadays)others are confident and have the finances sorted..

the yes case looks wooly and lacks confidence on the finacial side and that has to make anyone think hmm..

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

"one mans ego with a hint of bigotry..

Very very true.

Yep, that Cameron is a bastard

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

i personally would not want it but if the people vote for it then thats democracy and we all should respect that..

i just dont see that the case has been made, think with some it will be a 'popular' decision for their own reasons..

others will have looked into it like your daughter and some will go along with their friends and hope that it works out..

if the yes campaign were that confident that it would work out why hav'nt the global financial types got on booard..

when one of your kids leaves home, some need a help with the financial side (especially nowadays)others are confident and have the finances sorted..

the yes case looks wooly and lacks confidence on the finacial side and that has to make anyone think hmm.. "

To be perfectly honest, I really want Independence for Scotland so that maybe, just maybe, we get decent rugby and football teams!!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be perfectly honest, I really want Independence for Scotland so that maybe, just maybe, we get decent rugby and football teams!!!!!!

You mean like Ireland

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

i personally would not want it but if the people vote for it then thats democracy and we all should respect that..

i just dont see that the case has been made, think with some it will be a 'popular' decision for their own reasons..

others will have looked into it like your daughter and some will go along with their friends and hope that it works out..

if the yes campaign were that confident that it would work out why hav'nt the global financial types got on booard..

when one of your kids leaves home, some need a help with the financial side (especially nowadays)others are confident and have the finances sorted..

the yes case looks wooly and lacks confidence on the finacial side and that has to make anyone think hmm..

To be perfectly honest, I really want Independence for Scotland so that maybe, just maybe, we get decent rugby and football teams!!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You really think that if it comes to a real fight that you will do real damage to the UK.

Let me spell it out for you. Scotland votes for independence and when it is refused the use of the £ it refuses to accept its part of the national debt...

UK borrowing goes from 80% of GDP to 90/95% of GDP, and we suck this up.

Spot on

It's time many people in Scotland started thinking about the real consequences of a split.

I seriously doubt that Scotland would be allowed to join the EU. It certainly wouldn't be without a time frame for adopting the Euro, maybe that is what Salmond means by "temporary arrangement"

Personally I think Scotland would be much better off with independence but for totally different reasons to Salmond.

Yes I have mentioned this before - Scotland will become the next tax haven . Very ironic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"one mans ego with a hint of bigotry.."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Doesn't the UK own the bank of Scotland too haha

The oil fields will not all be in Scottish territorial waters if international law is applied, they're in Scottish waters at the moment because of UK legislation.

Salmond wants his cake and to eat it.

Territorial waters extend out from the direction of land borders, look at the border around Berwick in T and you'll see it runs North East towards Norway. Extrapolate that line out along the land border and it cuts the oil fields in half. Google the North Sea economic zone and you will see how for example Germany's sector of the North Sea extends to the North West, along the lines of its border, not along an east west latitude. Newcastle will gladly take the work off of Aberdeen, thanks.

At the moment any EU student can study in a Scottish University for free, except students from England, way to go Salmond. And we're the ones that are bitter...

Weddings are happy times, Divorce is often acrimonious...

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"....

Yes I have mentioned this before - Scotland will become the next tax haven . Very ironic "

Can we have a promise Connery won't come back?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....

Yes I have mentioned this before - Scotland will become the next tax haven . Very ironic

Can we have a promise Connery won't come back?"

I don't know him so sorry - but brace yourself for the tax haven and transfer pricing - ooh and yes the jersey housewives "job" of being a professional trustee for Trusts - it's worth a few quid

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

Ah - there we are

Hello project fear

see... the problem is that this final part isn't project fear... its the actual ecomonic argument put forward by most economists...

it was stated by mark carney.... it is stated in the treasury analysis....

the last "currency union" was between the czech republic and slovakia.... it lasted 33 days....

why?

because major business's in the former big country basically moved all their major headquarters from bratislava (the slovak captial) to Prague (the czech republic)

its that "S" word again... Stability

which is not something they would have the scottish "temporary arrangement" (see those two words coming back up again... and again)

big companies would move HQ and money from Edinburgh to anywhere down south, the Scottish banks have a larger GDP than the government so you would not be able to bail them out......

ecomonically a currency union would be in an independent scotland's best interest... but not in the "rest of uk" best interest.....

So again, What is "plan b"?"

Ah come on - how can you say that's not scaremongering. The only change is that the threat has moved from "possibility" to "certainty" with Osborne et al. closing the door on currency union.

It'll probably work too, I'm ashamed to say.

There is no plan B - that was our best shot at keeping things civil. I'm open to suggestions?

My vote is still unchanged however - even if Scotland is to face economic adversity upon independence - it won't last forever. We are an educated and industrious people and though we might face some hard years we'll get through it.

And we'll be free from the twisted farce that is Westminster... forever

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"....

Yes I have mentioned this before - Scotland will become the next tax haven . Very ironic

Can we have a promise Connery won't come back?

I don't know him so sorry - but brace yourself for the tax haven and transfer pricing - ooh and yes the jersey housewives "job" of being a professional trustee for Trusts - it's worth a few quid

Course you do. Baldy **** who advocates slapping women around. Used to be in movies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"....

Yes I have mentioned this before - Scotland will become the next tax haven . Very ironic

Can we have a promise Connery won't come back?

I don't know him so sorry - but brace yourself for the tax haven and transfer pricing - ooh and yes the jersey housewives "job" of being a professional trustee for Trusts - it's worth a few quid

Course you do. Baldy **** who advocates slapping women around. Used to be in movies."

You obviously do

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Ah - there we are

Hello project fear

see... the problem is that this final part isn't project fear... its the actual ecomonic argument put forward by most economists...

it was stated by mark carney.... it is stated in the treasury analysis....

the last "currency union" was between the czech republic and slovakia.... it lasted 33 days....

why?

because major business's in the former big country basically moved all their major headquarters from bratislava (the slovak captial) to Prague (the czech republic)

its that "S" word again... Stability

which is not something they would have the scottish "temporary arrangement" (see those two words coming back up again... and again)

big companies would move HQ and money from Edinburgh to anywhere down south, the Scottish banks have a larger GDP than the government so you would not be able to bail them out......

ecomonically a currency union would be in an independent scotland's best interest... but not in the "rest of uk" best interest.....

So again, What is "plan b"?

Ah come on - how can you say that's not scaremongering. The only change is that the threat has moved from "possibility" to "certainty" with Osborne et al. closing the door on currency union.

It'll probably work too, I'm ashamed to say.

There is no plan B - that was our best shot at keeping things civil. I'm open to suggestions?

And we'll be free from the twisted farce that is Westminster... forever"

"We may live in caves, but we'll have our freedom". That about it?

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

too many Tories in England .and a Tory supporter is alien to me

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

Ah - there we are

Hello project fear

see... the problem is that this final part isn't project fear... its the actual ecomonic argument put forward by most economists...

it was stated by mark carney.... it is stated in the treasury analysis....

the last "currency union" was between the czech republic and slovakia.... it lasted 33 days....

why?

because major business's in the former big country basically moved all their major headquarters from bratislava (the slovak captial) to Prague (the czech republic)

its that "S" word again... Stability

which is not something they would have the scottish "temporary arrangement" (see those two words coming back up again... and again)

big companies would move HQ and money from Edinburgh to anywhere down south, the Scottish banks have a larger GDP than the government so you would not be able to bail them out......

ecomonically a currency union would be in an independent scotland's best interest... but not in the "rest of uk" best interest.....

So again, What is "plan b"?

Ah come on - how can you say that's not scaremongering. The only change is that the threat has moved from "possibility" to "certainty" with Osborne et al. closing the door on currency union.

It'll probably work too, I'm ashamed to say.

There is no plan B - that was our best shot at keeping things civil. I'm open to suggestions?

And we'll be free from the twisted farce that is Westminster... forever

"We may live in caves, but we'll have our freedom". That about it?"

Am fear nach dèan cur sa Mhàrt, cha bhuain e san Fhoghar.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

There is no plan B - that was our best shot at keeping things civil.

And there we have it. And like it or not it translates to: We are an arrogant people who are refusing to listen to the warnings we are being given and if our arrogance brings adversity on our people and our children so be it!

I have to say I really hope you get your wish and that Scotland votes 'yes'.

I think you deserve it.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

There is no plan B - that was our best shot at keeping things civil.

I have to say I really hope you get your wish and that Scotland votes 'yes'.its a known fact that the highest population of arrogant ppl in the UK come from England .Thats where all the Tories stay .FACT THE END

I think you deserve it."

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

There is no plan B - that was our best shot at keeping things civil.

I have to say I really hope you get your wish and that Scotland votes 'yes'.

I think you deserve it."

The referendum question is

"Should Scotland be an independent country?"

No threat, insult, or mountain of gold will prevent me from answering that question honestly.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

There is no plan B - that was our best shot at keeping things civil.

I have to say I really hope you get your wish and that Scotland votes 'yes'.

I think you deserve it.

The referendum question is

"Should Scotland be an independent country?"

No threat, insult, or mountain of gold will prevent me from answering that question honestly."

And no threat, insult or mountain of gold will make it happen.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

..but it will...

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Word is Salmond is threatening to cancel the vote.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

"Word is Salmond is threatening to cancel the vote."

I think we are too far down the line for that. If he does, however, it will be the end of the line for him politically.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

That's not Salmond's _iew- it's what will happen if Scotland is not part of the UK monetary system- we wlll have no requirement to pay a share that debt- if we aren't part of it, why should we?

I take it then that if the uk's debt is nothing to do with Scotland, then the UK's oil revenues are nothing to do with Scotland either?

And does that also mean that the Royal Bank if Scotland's debts should be nothing to do with the rest of the UK?

Scottish independence concerns the whole of the UK, and as such we should ALL get a vote.

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

"Thoughts,

What are yours? Z

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Word is Salmond is threatening to cancel the vote.

I think we are too far down the line for that. If he does, however, it will be the end of the line for him politically."

He seems to think its better to run away and try again later than get his arse kicked in September.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Word is Salmond is threatening to cancel the vote.

I think we are too far down the line for that. If he does, however, it will be the end of the line for him politically.

He seems to think its better to run away and try again later than get his arse kicked in September."

Where is this being reported, Onny?

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

"Word is Salmond is threatening to cancel the vote.

I think we are too far down the line for that. If he does, however, it will be the end of the line for him politically.

He seems to think its better to run away and try again later than get his arse kicked in September.

Where is this being reported, Onny?"

It's not - he's trolling

tha mi cinnteach gum bi pròis air Cameron airson sin. Cu math Onny

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Salmond can't cancel once it has been announced he has to go ahead with it.

Some facts

If Scotland goes ahead alone then they have to apply for everything with the EU and USA as well as all existing agreements will be transferred to rest of UK

Bank of England as made clear no pounds for Scotland simple reason as Scotland has a low Gross Income it would pull the rating of rest of UK down, meaning higher interest rates and more expense for rest UK. Think then Wales, North Ireland and England would be asking for heads if that happened

Also every 4th job in Scotland is linked to Central Government in London either per Council, Army, Navy, etc. So if they go alone then those jobs go back to the others left

Also Mr Salmond is shouting about oil revenues but forgets that the fields don't belong to Scotland but to Shetlands and England tough his revenues figures are all based on fiction

Just hope that people see through his ideas before it's too late as when it has happened there will be now way back again... But loads of jobless trying to get away to the USA, rest of the UK and EU. But as no agreements in place they can travel... bing... Mr Salmond has shot himself in ze foot

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Word is Salmond is threatening to cancel the vote.

I think we are too far down the line for that. If he does, however, it will be the end of the line for him politically.

He seems to think its better to run away and try again later than get his arse kicked in September.

Where is this being reported, Onny?

It's not - he's trolling

tha mi cinnteach gum bi pròis air Cameron airson sin. Cu math Onny"

Okay.

Can you stop with the gaelic shit please, it's hard enough trying to work out some of the posts that are written in English let alone that without having to go to Google translate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I take it then that if the uk's debt is nothing to do with Scotland, then the UK's oil revenues are nothing to do with Scotland either?

And does that also mean that the Royal Bank if Scotland's debts should be nothing to do with the rest of the UK?

Scottish independence concerns the whole of the UK, and as such we should ALL get a vote."

Point is- no common currency means refund from Westminster to Scotland of several billion £ and you guys get the whole sterling thing to yourselves.

-Oil revenues- go with the territory, sorry.

- you can't have the RBS both ways- it was a UK bank in the crisis and so the UK paid its bale-out. Hence the refund to Scotland if Westminster throws its toys out the pram about sterling. Seems a bit of a shot in the UK foot to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Also Mr Salmond is shouting about oil revenues but forgets that the fields don't belong to Scotland but to Shetlands and England tough his revenues figures are all based on fiction

Has Shetland had an independence from the UK vote already? Jings, they kept it quiet. And I didn't know England has extended its sea borders into the north North Sea.

Well well well, sneaky buggers.

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

"Word is Salmond is threatening to cancel the vote.

I think we are too far down the line for that. If he does, however, it will be the end of the line for him politically.

He seems to think its better to run away and try again later than get his arse kicked in September.

Where is this being reported, Onny?

It's not - he's trolling

tha mi cinnteach gum bi pròis air Cameron airson sin. Cu math Onny

Okay.

Can you stop with the gaelic shit please, it's hard enough trying to work out some of the posts that are written in English let alone that without having to go to Google translate. "

chan eil càil a sheansa. Tha mi Duilich

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

we Wont be mastered by no tory basTArd ...we'll keep the blue flag flying high

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You really think that if it comes to a real fight that you will do real damage to the UK.

Let me spell it out for you. Scotland votes for independence and when it is refused the use of the £ it refuses to accept its part of the national debt...

UK borrowing goes from 80% of GDP to 90/95% of GDP, and we suck this up.

Ah - there we are

Hello project fear

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Word is Salmond is threatening to cancel the vote.

I think we are too far down the line for that. If he does, however, it will be the end of the line for him politically.

He seems to think its better to run away and try again later than get his arse kicked in September.

Where is this being reported, Onny?

It's not - he's trolling

tha mi cinnteach gum bi pròis air Cameron airson sin. Cu math Onny

Okay.

Can you stop with the gaelic shit please, ......... "

It makes them feel 'special' and they need to feel special.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Also Mr Salmond is shouting about oil revenues but forgets that the fields don't belong to Scotland but to Shetlands and England tough his revenues figures are all based on fiction

Has Shetland had an independence from the UK vote already? Jings, they kept it quiet. And I didn't know England has extended its sea borders into the north North Sea.

Well well well, sneaky buggers. "

Have a quick Google of the current north sea economic zone, look up international law on territorial waters. Then you will see that about half of the oil fields will be in what remains of the UK territorial waters according to UN international law. Look at Germany's sector for a guide of how it can extend quite far north of the actual land border.

And if push comes to shove, where's your Navy...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No not project fear...

Just telling you what will happen if you keep on the course you're on...

It's never pleasant when the old man breaks the kids jaw when the kid hits the boxer who the kid thinks is 'dissing him!'"

Now, why would you choose an analogy that pitches the Scottish as d*unken louts?

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"But we can still rise now

And be the nation again

That stood against him"

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

where is our navy???.where's your nuke submarines . x x X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

also if they did that, I am guessing the UK would veto Scotland joining the EU....."

Spain will veto Scotland joining the EU in exchange for the UK vetoing Catalonia breaking away from Spain and miroring Scotland.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

see... the thing still is at a local level, everything in scotland is already voted on and represented at a scottish level.... its called thee scottish parliament...

so when stergeon harps on, for example, about being able to protect the NHS better in an independent scotland, like she did today... they already have that bloody power!!! they already control the scottish health budget.....

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

""But we can still rise now

And be the nation again

That stood against him"

By the same author to the tune of Scotland the Brave

Used to say in faither's day,

You could hear the bagpipes play,

But now you hear the regal tones o' Elton John and The Rolling Stones.

Land that is full o' stinkers,

Wee fat Jews and Buckie drinkers.

Whisky put a lot o' stinkers, into Scottish graves

I'd like to think Roy is turning in his grave. Disgraceful!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"where is our navy???.where's your nuke submarines . x x X

Devonport Royal Dockyard

And if they are in Scotland do you have the codes...

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By *hybutnaughtyoneWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

One question to the people who aren't abke to vote on Scotland becoming independent. Why do you want Scotland to stay within the uk if it is such a burden on the uk?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"where is our navy???.where's your nuke submarines . x x X

Devonport Royal Dockyard

And if they are in Scotland do you have the codes..."

Each comes with a tame Yank.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

""But we can still rise now

And be the nation again

That stood against him"

By the same author to the tune of Scotland the Brave

Used to say in faither's day,

You could hear the bagpipes play,

But now you hear the regal tones o' Elton John and The Rolling Stones.

Land that is full o' stinkers,

Wee fat Jews and Buckie drinkers.

Whisky put a lot o' stinkers, into Scottish graves

I'd like to think Roy is turning in his grave. Disgraceful!"
...while we're on the subject of Roy ..meet Roy orbistons two brothers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One question to the people who aren't abke to vote on Scotland becoming independent. Why do you want Scotland to stay within the uk if it is such a burden on the uk?"

I'm not bothered really, it's what Salmond thinks he can take that is the problem.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

"where is our navy???.where's your nuke submarines . x x X

Devonport Royal Dockyard

And if they are in Scotland do you have the codes..."
..wee man at the barras sells the code scanners..two for a Tenner

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By *hybutnaughtyoneWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Unless salmond is immortal he won't be around forever. This decision that the people of Scotland make will need to be based on what will happen not now but in 10, 20 or 50 years time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't get this.

Am I correct in thinking that an independent Scotland would like to maintain monetary union with the rest of the United Kingdom?

Maintain monetary union with the country you have just left? Letting them set your interest rates, letting them set your fiscal policy, letting them decide on your tax rates?

Where is the independence in that?

I have no _iew either way on the independence question, but surely if they want to leave, then leave fully.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't get this.

Am I correct in thinking that an independent Scotland would like to maintain monetary union with the rest of the United Kingdom?

Maintain monetary union with the country you have just left? Letting them set your interest rates, letting them set your fiscal policy, letting them decide on your tax rates?

Where is the independence in that?

I have no _iew either way on the independence question, but surely if they want to leave, then leave fully."

They want all of the good and none of the bad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whatever will be will be. The point about currency. In Belize formerly British Honduras their dollar tracks the US doller two to one. I'm not fussed if we have a pound, a euro a coit a schilling or a punt etc. As long as I get vfm down the shops.

I'm not a unionist but have taken the queens shilling and represented her with weaponry in foreign climes. I'm happy being part of UK and will always be proud to be a Scot but equally proud to be British. If it all goes to rat shit I'm moving to Newcastle.....

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

There is a bit of confusion over the decision of all political parties not to allow an independent Scotland to carry on using the pound. In fact when lunch was ordered they all requested stuffed salmon.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

if they keep putting George osbourne on tv sayin this and that the yes vote wil end up a landslide x x X

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Salmond on Newsnight backing down "I'm happy to negotiate".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But IS that backing down, since negotiating was always the deal- it's Westminster who won't negotiate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But IS that backing down, since negotiating was always the deal- it's Westmjinster who won't negotiate."

We are negotiating, stay in the union keep the pound, leave get your own coinage...

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

QT also interesting - discussing bullying and whether Osborne has played into the SNP hands.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But IS that backing down, since negotiating was always the deal- it's Westminster who won't negotiate."

Come on its a bit like having a meet with a guy and him wanting to take your wife home for alternate weekends.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

"But IS that backing down, since negotiating was always the deal- it's Westmjinster who won't negotiate.

We are negotiating, stay in the union keep the pound, leave get your own coinage..."
okay we wil just have our own Scottish pound x x X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Am watching it too.

Thank goodness we have months and months to claim and counterclaim before the vote- has Westminster acted too soon?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But IS that backing down, since negotiating was always the deal- it's Westminster who won't negotiate.

We are negotiating, stay in the union keep the pound, leave get your own coinage..."

ha ha- good one. Bit like the old ducking stool for witches.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But IS that backing down, since negotiating was always the deal- it's Westmjinster who won't negotiate.

We are negotiating, stay in the union keep the pound, leave get your own coinage... okay we wil just have our own Scottish pound x x X"

I'll want 10 of them for 1 of ours though, if you walk into a shop down here with a Scottish note half the time they refuse to accept it.

You can call it what you want, it won't be tied into the UK pound.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Am watching it too.

Thank goodness we have months and months to claim and counterclaim before the vote- has Westminster acted too soon?

I think its better out in the open now it would have been a bit low to voice it at the last minute. The reality is if there is independence then fine but neither side should prop up the other. It will be interesting to see how inflation varies social care and costs for it all. Most of the people i know north of the border don't want it but some do if my pension was in one currency I would be concerned if things change though.

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By *aro7 OP Man
over a year ago

wickford

Yesh, moneypenny,,,,,,,,

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"But IS that backing down, since negotiating was always the deal- it's Westminster who won't negotiate.

We are negotiating, stay in the union keep the pound, leave get your own coinage...

ha ha- good one. Bit like the old ducking stool for witches. "

if you choose to be a witch knowing the possible consequence then you may get a wet arse..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Of the Scottish people I have spoken to in person, only a couple I must admit, they seem to think it isn't a good idea and would prefer to remain as part of the UK. Although they are by birth Scottish they will have no say in the future of their country because they don't currently reside in Scotland. So that's about 800000 Scots who are unable to vote on the future of Scotland.

Do the 400000 English people living in Scotland get to vote? If it's going by address and not nationality I would assume so.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"But IS that backing down, since negotiating was always the deal- it's Westmjinster who won't negotiate.

We are negotiating, stay in the union keep the pound, leave get your own coinage... okay we wil just have our own Scottish pound x x X"

I've heard a suggestion it should be called the Dreichma.

Just like our weather and worth fuck all internationally.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"QT also interesting - discussing bullying and whether Osborne has played into the SNP hands.

i dont see todays speech by Osborne as 'bullying', given the lack of clarity in the white paper by the yes campaign someone had to clarify and confirm what the govener of the Bank of England said..

if the SNP have left it wooly and vague on the currency issue, hoping that this would be the case and they would then play the 'poor us being bullied by Old Etonian toffs in Westminster' card then whilst they may pick up a few more undecided votes i think on the implication of not having the pound post the vote then they may have fecked it up..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But IS that backing down, since negotiating was always the deal- it's Westmjinster who won't negotiate.

We are negotiating, stay in the union keep the pound, leave get your own coinage... okay we wil just have our own Scottish pound x x X

I've heard a suggestion it should be called the Dreichma.

Just like our weather and worth fuck all internationally."

They should call it the Nesbitt and a 50 could be a Rab.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"But IS that backing down, since negotiating was always the deal- it's Westmjinster who won't negotiate.

We are negotiating, stay in the union keep the pound, leave get your own coinage... okay we wil just have our own Scottish pound x x X

I've heard a suggestion it should be called the Dreichma.

Just like our weather and worth fuck all internationally.

They should call it the Nesbitt and a 50 could be a Rab. "

100 could be a C.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"QT also interesting - discussing bullying and whether Osborne has played into the SNP hands.

i dont see todays speech by Osborne as 'bullying', given the lack of clarity in the white paper by the yes campaign someone had to clarify and confirm what the govener of the Bank of England said..

The conversations I had this evening with English and Welsh people was that they are fed up with it all and just want Scotland to vote yes and leave the rest of the UK to get on with it.

On further discussion the issue they really feel is that if the vote is to remain part of the UK the question will just be dragged up again in a couple of years and during that time the people who did vote yes will keep banging on that it wasn't a fair vote or that they were bullied or something else.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".............

When the vote is No (as it will be) John Mason, SNP MSP wants to hold another Separandum day after day 'till the people of Scotland get the answer right'. He also voted against same sex marriage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I like the Scott's and Scotland - I hope they stay

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But IS that backing down, since negotiating was always the deal- it's Westmjinster who won't negotiate.

We are negotiating, stay in the union keep the pound, leave get your own coinage... okay we wil just have our own Scottish pound x x X

I've heard a suggestion it should be called the Dreichma.

Just like our weather and worth fuck all internationally.

They should call it the Nesbitt and a 50 could be a Rab.

100 could be a C."

It would be a real smiler if they did I have to say I am not sure what a Mary or a Gash would be.

On the independence side I just hope it doesn't get nasty or too expensive what ever happens as I can see the whole thing costing a fortune.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

".............

When the vote is No (as it will be) John Mason, SNP MSP wants to hold another Separandum day after day 'till the people of Scotland get the answer right'. He also voted against same sex marriage."
so does that mean that in the end im right enough

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That reminds me does anyone know of a blue wode manufacturer I could buy shares in?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

From another forum I read on the same subject, it made me smile...

"************ said:

I give the Scots 5 years before the refugees start pouring over the border and they are begging for the scraps from our tables"

"***** **** said

Who told you about plan B"

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"From another forum I read on the same subject, it made me smile...

************ said:

I give the Scots 5 years before the refugees start pouring over the border and they are begging for the scraps from our tables

***** **** said

Who told you about plan B"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Scot pound tracking the UK pound for a few years then decide. SIMPLE...

The announcement is not bullying it's clarifying, if it was not stated then progress would be stalled leaving the discussion until after the referendum is just daft.

I fear that an Independent Scotland will be very very wealthy, but empty of Scot's except the few who have made enough to live there.

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

"I take it then that if the uk's debt is nothing to do with Scotland, then the UK's oil revenues are nothing to do with Scotland either?

And does that also mean that the Royal Bank if Scotland's debts should be nothing to do with the rest of the UK?

Scottish independence concerns the whole of the UK, and as such we should ALL get a vote.

Point is- no common currency means refund from Westminster to Scotland of several billion £ and you guys get the whole sterling thing to yourselves.

-Oil revenues- go with the territory, sorry.

Aren't the oil rigs in International Waters?

Can't see why a refund would be due if there's no common currency?

RBS can stay owned by the UK then - no refund!

No comment on why, as it's a UK issue, the whole of the UK doesn't get a vote?

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Having lived in Scotland, but also having been on marches for independence, my current _iew is that it should remain as it is.

The SNP seems to attract some awful people as its representatives. Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon are two of the most repulsive people I could ever imagine leading a party - and I don't mean physically.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

".............

When the vote is No (as it will be) John Mason, SNP MSP wants to hold another Separandum day after day 'till the people of Scotland get the answer right'. "

He'll have learned that trick in Brussels.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

fuck all will change for ordinary people...we'll get fucked over as we do now

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Ms Sturgeon has entered into negotiations ......... with Wonga.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Shell have announced they're selling assets in the North Sea.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have a sneaking suspicion that denying those not at home on the day of the vote a chance to have their say is a bit of a ploy by Mr Salmond.

If it goes "NO" he will simply claim the vote wasnt legal,so another referendum must be held.

2 bites of the same cherry and all fully legal.

Maybe its just me being cynical in my old age.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

There's always postal voting for those who can't get to their polling station.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If that were the case and Scotland were to say there was no requirement to pay any debts, the Bank of England could foreclose on all loans underwritten to Bank of Scotland & RBS, and the UK government could pull out of the agreements over military bases causing the death of a number of sizeable communities. Add to that the immediate need to renegotiate contracts with companies working in non-eu states (BAe - aircraft carriers for one) and this debTe gets a whole lot messier...

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

"fuck all will change for ordinary people...we'll get fucked over as we do now"

That's exactly how I feel

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"fuck all will change for ordinary people...we'll get fucked over as we do now

That's exactly how I feel

That is the way of politics... And life so often...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can someone explain to me (in English please) what benefits the average person will get by breaking away from the rest of the Uk ?

Him

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

no more Tory rules.eg bedroom tax.loss of human rights..and George fuking osborne .etc etc .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If that were the case and Scotland were to say there was no requirement to pay any debts, the Bank of England could foreclose on all loans underwritten to Bank of Scotland & RBS, and the UK government could pull out of the agreements over military bases causing the death of a number of sizeable communities. Add to that the immediate need to renegotiate contracts with companies working in non-eu states (BAe - aircraft carriers for one) and this debTe gets a whole lot messier..."

That makes no ecconomic sense whatsoever, - the value of the £ would collapse and halfcof English businesses would fail on the spot.

As for the oil- depending on which line is used, up to 90% of the reserves are in Scottish waters. That is annual revenue of possibly £9Billion. Nice.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield

"no more Tory rules.eg bedroom tax.loss of human rights..and George fuking osborne .etc etc ."

We're you saying the same about Gordon brown?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Can someone explain to me (in English please) what benefits the average person will get by breaking away from the rest of the Uk ?

Him"

None.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

If you really want to know why there is an independence movement in Scotland, this video should help you understand. There is a lot more to it than this, and a lot of varying opinions. But this is a good start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6GsEKrCvgw

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By *ustcutieWoman
over a year ago

edinburgh

"Can someone explain to me (in English please) what benefits the average person will get by breaking away from the rest of the Uk ?

Him

None."

For once I agree _nny

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield

I'm sure everyone knows why there is an independence movement and I find it fascinating. There appear to be very few answers to questions though, just allegations of bullying when things get awkward.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I'm sure everyone knows why there is an independence movement ......"

Perhaps you tell us why then, cos I'm fucked if I know.

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

"no more Tory rules.eg bedroom tax.loss of human rights..and George fuking osborne .etc etc .

We're you saying the same about Gordon brown?"
no why??

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I'm sure everyone knows why there is an independence movement and I find it fascinating. There appear to be very few answers to questions though, just allegations of bullying when things get awkward."

There are just as many answers being given on the yes side as on the no side. Some issues don't have clear, black and white answers. They have to be debated and discussed. YES are no more going to blink first and backtrack on currency union plan than NO are going to admit the will backtrack in the event of a YES vote. That's politics.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I'm sure everyone knows why there is an independence movement ......

Perhaps you tell us why then, cos I'm fucked if I know."

But that is simply because you are very poorly informed and suffer from the infamous Scottish Cringe (which for those of you unfamiliar with the term, is an inherent embarrassment at all things Scottish - cultures, traditions etc. It's easier to slag off your fellow countrymen when they try to do something new or better themselves somehow.)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That makes no ecconomic sense whatsoever, - the value of the £ would collapse and halfcof English businesses would fail on the spot.

As for the oil- depending on which line is used, up to 90% of the reserves are in Scottish waters. That is annual revenue of possibly £9Billion. Nice. "
Again, I suggest you do some research on in law regarding territorial waters, they are in Scottish waters because of UK law, not international law. If you leave the rules change and it's more of a 50/50 split then.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

I would have thought it is obvious why there is an independence movement in Scotland. Its the same reason there are independence movements all over the world. The sad fact is that the easiest way for disgusting bigots to gain power is to wrap themselves in a flag (any flag will do) and start shouting: "They are exploiting us!" "They are stealing our (add whatever)!" Eventually the movement gains a critical mass and people who would never gain power through the normal political routes get to rule a small fiefdom.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I'm sure everyone knows why there is an independence movement ......

Perhaps you tell us why then, cos I'm fucked if I know.

One of the stronger traditions of our culture is the ability to spot a chancer at 100 paces and Eck is a sure-fire chancer.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

But the thing is, what you have just written bears no similarity to reality. You are calling me and my fellow independence supporters bigots and expecting to be taken seriously in this debate.

The actual debate which is currently taking place in Scotland is more advanced than the level you are debating at as you clearly still think it is about flags and nationality. I am guessing you haven't watched the video I posted either. Enjoy ignorance and being confused and bewildered by what is going on around you. If you want to join in the actual debate though you are more than welcome.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 14/02/14 16:09:40]

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

One of the stronger traditions of our culture is the ability to spot a chancer at 100 paces and Eck is a sure-fire chancer."

I'd sooner believe a chancer than an Eton-educated millionaire who is unelected in my country telling me what I can and cannot do. What Alec Salmond is trying to achieve is simply to bring our government home to Scotland. Whoever we decide to vote for after that will be up to us.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

But the thing is, what you have just written bears no similarity to reality. You are calling me and my fellow independence supporters bigots and expecting to be taken seriously in this debate.

.........."

Much the way all those who see through Eck's nonsense - and say so - are tarred traitors.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I love how just because all three main parties in Westminster disagree with the SNP and decide to speak as one voice that's them ganging up and bullying Scotland according to Alec Salmond last night.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I love how just because all three main parties in Westminster disagree with the SNP and decide to speak as one voice that's them ganging up and bullying Scotland according to Alec Salmond last night."

Salmond has a chip on both shoulders.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"THE owner of pensions house Scottish Life has warned that it would treat Scotland as a foreign country in the event of independence."

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

But the thing is, what you have just written bears no similarity to reality. You are calling me and my fellow independence supporters bigots and expecting to be taken seriously in this debate.

I think you need to reread and inwardly digest what I have said Duncan, because the only way for what I have said to be about you is if you are one of the few at the top of the SNP who have spent the last 20 years manipulating the Scots so that you can gain power. If that is correct you along with Salmond and the rest of his cronies should hang your head in shame.

If, as I believe you are just one of many who has been brainwashed over years I would ask you a couple of questions:

1/ Is there any real difference between the politics and basic message of the leaders of SNP, Shinn Fein, The Ulster Unionists, The Serbian Nationalists under Slobodan Milosevic or any of the countless other nationalist gangs around the world?

2/ And exactly how far do you think Salmond will go in order to gain absolute power on his terms? He and his cronies have now started issuing threats, and earlier in this thread we have been told by another SNP supporter that its worth economic ruin to get power, where will it end?

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

If, as I believe you are just one of many who has been brainwashed over years I would ask you a couple of questions:

You simply mistake those who support independence with SNP. It's a simple mistake to make I suppose for those of you who do not live here and to whom this debate is a recent thing.

Scottish Independence is something I and many many people I know have wanted for as long as I can remember. I grew up in the 80's and I'm sure I don't have to explain why I mention that.

I want independence for many reasons. Democracy is one. I'm sure the reason for that are clear - we are different from the rest of the UK politically. The Tories and UKIP being the obvious examples. Free education being another huge difference in our priorities.

So your points about the SNP are you own opinion and are, in my _iew misguided. I actually think they do a very competent job here. But that is besides the point. They, along with 40% of the Scottish population, support restoring Scotland to it's previous status as an independent country. If you think that is bigoted, so be it. In my opinion that is simply laughable. My desire for Scotland to be a country again has absolutely nothing to do with England or it's people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your all "DOOMED" in the words of John Laurie

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

It's because one side refuses to answer the hard questions....

It's the "la la la, I'm not listening" defence....

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By *picyspiregirlCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield

It's because one side refuses to answer the hard questions....

It's the "la la la, I'm not listening" defence.... ;-"

It certainly seems that way and given that politicians are involved I almost expect that, however, it is the derogatory way some people give their non answers that really concerns me. There seems to be a, you don't understand that? Really? Never mind, attitude with quite a lot of people.

Some of the double standards displayed are mind boggling too!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Dont really know why I am bothering as it is clear to me that positions are so entrenched in Scotland that nothing bar suffering the consequences of independence will change anyones mind. But please Duncan dont claim that reducing the size of the voting franchise will increase democracy as this is false. In fact the smaller the size of the voting pool the more politics and policies tend to the extreme. And democracy tends to fail when extreme politician gain power.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Dont really know why I am bothering as it is clear to me that positions are so entrenched in Scotland that nothing bar suffering the consequences of independence will change anyones mind. But please Duncan dont claim that reducing the size of the voting franchise will increase democracy as this is false. In fact the smaller the size of the voting pool the more politics and policies tend to the extreme. And democracy tends to fail when extreme politician gain power. "

I don't know why you are bothering either. Just reread your likening of Scottish politics to Serbia. I'm not sure where you secure your Scottish news from but I'd have a rethink if I were you.

I'll take your advice about small democracy being extreme and governments falling and I'll look into similar sized nations around Scotland's geographical location for examples and let you know what I find.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Till Birnham forest comes to Dunsinane

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"consequences of independence "

Let me also just pick you up on this phrase you have used. I'm assuming you live in a pretty nice place and everything is just ay-ok. No reason to make any changes in your life. Fair enough.

Scotland, land and sea territory, is bigger than the rest of the UK.

We are a richer country than the rest of the UK.

Yet there are area of Scotland that are in utter poverty. Why should we tolerate this? Why should inequality be allowed to persist when we can do something about it? 1 in 4 children born into poverty in a "rich" country? Perhaps people here can sit and say "Well that's life..." blah blah blah. Once you open your eyes to the utter corruption that goes on in and around Westminster and the London rich, you'll wish you had a way out too.

If you think this is a problem for everyone and independence is not the answer - I remind you that Scotland and the rest of the UK are politically diverging. So how can we in Scotland ever truly make a difference? I see UKIP came 2nd in a by-election yesterday. Do you know that UKIP have never held a deposit in Scotland? 59 Scottish seats and only 1 is occupied by a Tory. ONE! Yet the the Chancellor who flew in and out yesterday to lecture us was a Tory! Do you have any idea what this system is doing to the young up here? Why bother voting, they say. It makes no difference. It's becoming very difficult to disagree with that. Vote blue, vote red. Does anything ever really change? We are told instead of independence we can vote Labour to get rid of the Tories. Might work too. But for how long? 4 years?

We have an option to change this toxic, unequal union and I am certain we won't let this opportunity for REAL change pass us by.

What does all this make me? You guessed it - a, brain-washed, anti-English bigot. As you were, heads back in the sand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What he said ^^^^^

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"consequences of independence

Let me also just pick you up on this phrase you have used. I'm assuming you live in a pretty nice place and everything is just ay-ok. No reason to make any changes in your life. Fair enough.

Scotland, land and sea territory, is bigger than the rest of the UK.

We are a richer country than the rest of the UK.

We have an option to change this toxic, unequal union and I am certain we won't let this opportunity for REAL change pass us by.

What does all this make me? You guessed it - a, brain-washed, anti-English bigot. As you were, heads back in the sand. "

40% of London children are born and live in poverty. Don't conflate the fact that London has wealth with that being evenly distributed. That particular problem is across the country and not just Scotland.

We don't have a vote on what will happen in Scotland but we will all have to live with the consequences one way or another.

It is your vote to use as you see fit. However, decisions that do have an impact on the remaining Union, such as currency union decisions, are ours to take an interest in too.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

We don't have a vote on what will happen in Scotland but we will all have to live with the consequences one way or another.

It is your vote to use as you see fit. However, decisions that do have an impact on the remaining Union, such as currency union decisions, are ours to take an interest in too.

I absolutely understand that. Take an interest by all means. Get involved. Inequality and the richer getting richer is unacceptable in this society. It it's happening and we have a solution for us and our children. Independence for Scotland, I think, will kick start a new politics in the rest of the uk. It can't go on like this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of the Scottish people I have spoken to in person, only a couple I must admit, they seem to think it isn't a good idea and would prefer to remain as part of the UK. Although they are by birth Scottish they will have no say in the future of their country because they don't currently reside in Scotland. So that's about 800000 Scots who are unable to vote on the future of Scotland.

Do the 400000 English people living in Scotland get to vote? If it's going by address and not nationality I would assume so."

That is a really good point. I have dipped in and out of the independence debate and would genuinely like to know if anyone knows the answer to that question.

Who does and doesn't get to vote?

I personally know about 10 English people who have stated in Scotland after going to Uni (i haven't spoken to them in ages so don't know which way they are going to swing). What I do know is that they liked Scotland enough that they stayed!

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