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"Doesn't solve the problem of some people in social housing living on their own in 2, 3, or 4 bedroom houses while others are overcrowded in 1 or 2 bedroom houses or flats. In addition there are people in social housing who's circumstances have changed and no longer require them. The system needs to be sorted out. The bedroom tax was always going to be a cock up though. The legal issue should have been spotted on day 1, it was so glaring. " What would you class as no longer require one? | |||
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"Doesn't solve the problem of some people in social housing living on their own in 2, 3, or 4 bedroom houses while others are overcrowded in 1 or 2 bedroom houses or flats. In addition there are people in social housing who's circumstances have changed and no longer require them. The system needs to be sorted out. The bedroom tax was always going to be a cock up though. The legal issue should have been spotted on day 1, it was so glaring. " The second they exempted pensioners (who, let's face it, are the *most* likely to be "under occupying") it ceased being a pragmatic policy, and became ideological. I read recently councils are now unable to let 3,4 bedroom houses as people refuse to take them due to this measure. So in times of a housing shortage, we're seeing an increase in empty houses. | |||
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"...... I read recently councils are now unable to let 3,4 bedroom houses as people refuse to take them due to this measure. So in times of a housing shortage, we're seeing an increase in empty houses." Council, and housing associations, are having to play a version of 3 dimensional chess to make best use of the available capacity (a horrible word in this context) but the way family sizes have gone in the last 20 years, much of the need for larger homes comes from what local gossip would call 'foreigners' and all the issues that brings. | |||
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"I read recently councils are now unable to let 3,4 bedroom houses as people refuse to take them due to this measure. So in times of a housing shortage, we're seeing an increase in empty houses." Crazy thing is someone I know has one child full time and another from previous relationship every weekend. BUT is only allowed to apply for a 2 bedroom council house as they don't have 2 full time children. Would be happy to pay the extra rent / bedroom tax etc. but isn't allowed to. As for fully occupying available property once the social housing stock got sold off and was instead handed over to a disjointed bunch of private landlords, the system fell apart. Economics is not a sensible way of moving people into fully occupied property. I have no idea what the answer is now, only that we once had a system that worked quite well, and lost it | |||
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"No suprise,just another example government thats way to quick to persecute the worst off in society instead of making rich and companys pay their way,oh hang on why would they,they are rich,and either friends/own/or look to join big co's as non execs,while/after being mp "Council houses were sold cheep to occupiers, part of the asset strip of the Thatcher era, but individual greed caused the population to fall for it. One aim was people in debt are more subservient, cant strike if it will leave your mortgage unpaid! But the housing stock was sold and never replaced, don't know where the money went but it went. Bottom line is it happened through national greed not corporate only got ourselves to blame. | |||
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"...... I read recently councils are now unable to let 3,4 bedroom houses as people refuse to take them due to this measure. So in times of a housing shortage, we're seeing an increase in empty houses. Council, and housing associations, are having to play a version of 3 dimensional chess to make best use of the available capacity (a horrible word in this context) but the way family sizes have gone in the last 20 years, much of the need for larger homes comes from what local gossip would call 'foreigners' and all the issues that brings." That's not always the case , if you looked at the statistics. The media over-exaggerates this & Joe Public are given the wrong perception . | |||
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"All people adversely affected by the 'bedroom tax' will vote in 2015." Well 30% of folk never vote. | |||
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"No suprise,just another example government thats way to quick to persecute the worst off in society instead of making rich and companys pay their way,oh hang on why would they,they are rich,and either friends/own/or look to join big co's as non execs,while/after being mp
Council houses were sold cheep to occupiers, part of the asset strip of the Thatcher era, but individual greed caused the population to fall for it.
One aim was people in debt are more subservient, cant strike if it will leave your mortgage unpaid!
But the housing stock was sold and never replaced, don't know where the money went but it went.
Bottom line is it happened through national greed not corporate only got ourselves to blame."Very well put  | |||
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"...... I read recently councils are now unable to let 3,4 bedroom houses as people refuse to take them due to this measure. So in times of a housing shortage, we're seeing an increase in empty houses. Council, and housing associations, are having to play a version of 3 dimensional chess to make best use of the available capacity (a horrible word in this context) but the way family sizes have gone in the last 20 years, much of the need for larger homes comes from what local gossip would call 'foreigners' and all the issues that brings. That's not always the case , if you looked at the statistics. The media over-exaggerates this & Joe Public are given the wrong perception . " I agree. It's an entirely wrong perception but it's one to which many people subscribe. | |||
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"had a quick glance at a website advertising local properties for sale and rent yesterday ..... I noticed that 2 bedroom accomodation is now the same cost to rent as 3 bed " Ah, but did 3 bed prices FALL to match 2 bed prices, or 2 bed prices RISE to match 3 bed prices. I suspect the latter. | |||
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"So if you have claimed at the same address since 1996 you don't have to pay and will be getting it all back as long as your not in arrears. Bit late for all those that have uprooted from their family home or been beside themselves with worry " Many just didn't pay and got in arrears taking so many to court wasn't cost effective. They will come up with some other way of clawing back the money. | |||
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"Doesn't solve the problem of some people in social housing living on their own in 2, 3, or 4 bedroom houses while others are overcrowded in 1 or 2 bedroom houses or flats. In addition there are people in social housing who's circumstances have changed and no longer require them. The system needs to be sorted out. The bedroom tax was always going to be a cock up though. The legal issue should have been spotted on day 1, it was so glaring. " why should people be forced to move into a smaller house after they have lived there most of there lives i notice its only people in social houses that are being forced to move , this govement is a joke and the sooner there out the better , pick on the poor yet again . wile the rich get tax brakes .  | |||
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"What went wrong is that, as a nation, we didn't continue to build houses. Keeping supply down keeps prices up and that suits some folks greedier instincts." Maggie got the right to buy passed by promising that the funds raised would be used to build more social housing... And then it slipped her mind to do it! My problem with the bedroom tax is that only those on benefits are being charged it. So you can have two homes on the same street with the same number of occupants under-occupying and only the ones on benefits are penalised.  | |||
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"What went wrong is that, as a nation, we didn't continue to build houses. Keeping supply down keeps prices up and that suits some folks greedier instincts. Maggie got the right to buy passed by promising that the funds raised would be used to build more social housing... And then it slipped her mind to do it! My problem with the bedroom tax is that only those on benefits are being charged it. So you can have two homes on the same street with the same number of occupants under-occupying and only the ones on benefits are penalised. "so very true and that it wrong .  | |||
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"Doesn't solve the problem of some people in social housing living on their own in 2, 3, or 4 bedroom houses while others are overcrowded in 1 or 2 bedroom houses or flats. In addition there are people in social housing who's circumstances have changed and no longer require them. The system needs to be sorted out. The bedroom tax was always going to be a cock up though. The legal issue should have been spotted on day 1, it was so glaring. why should people be forced to move into a smaller house after they have lived there most of there lives i notice its only people in social houses that are being forced to move , this govement is a joke and the sooner there out the better , pick on the poor yet again . wile the rich get tax brakes . "Pensioners are exempt because they vote. They tend to under-occupy as family move away. The stated aim was to rebalance the housing stock and stop "subsidising" "spare" rooms. As soon as the largest group of under-occupiers is deemed exempt then the aim cannot be achieved. Anyhoo, we are beginning to see the change in direction as the local and MEP elections are this year and only 15 months until the General Election. | |||
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"What went wrong is that, as a nation, we didn't continue to build houses. Keeping supply down keeps prices up and that suits some folks greedier instincts. Maggie got the right to buy passed by promising that the funds raised would be used to build more social housing... And then it slipped her mind to do it! My problem with the bedroom tax is that only those on benefits are being charged it. So you can have two homes on the same street with the same number of occupants under-occupying and only the ones on benefits are penalised. "I am no Maggie fan but what she did was take an idea from Labour and used the process they had already begun and made it her own. | |||
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"Doesn't solve the problem of some people in social housing living on their own in 2, 3, or 4 bedroom houses while others are overcrowded in 1 or 2 bedroom houses or flats. In addition there are people in social housing who's circumstances have changed and no longer require them. The system needs to be sorted out. The bedroom tax was always going to be a cock up though. The legal issue should have been spotted on day 1, it was so glaring. why should people be forced to move into a smaller house after they have lived there most of there lives i notice its only people in social houses that are being forced to move , this govement is a joke and the sooner there out the better , pick on the poor yet again . wile the rich get tax brakes .
Pensioners are exempt because they vote. They tend to under-occupy as family move away.
The stated aim was to rebalance the housing stock and stop "subsidising" "spare" rooms. As soon as the largest group of under-occupiers is deemed exempt then the aim cannot be achieved.
Anyhoo, we are beginning to see the change in direction as the local and MEP elections are this year and only 15 months until the General Election."An incentive rather than a penalty would have worked far better to rebalance the occupancy of social housing stock. But this government cannot see the long term benefits of a little investment, and since we're all just scroungers we are ripe to be financially penalised. The irony being that many are able to claim back the bedroom tax from a different part of the system. | |||
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"It's true, alot of people don't vote and we are getting tempted to go the same way, and can you blame people who don't vote. Politics is self serving. Why should I vote for any of these party's when not a single one of them has the average people's interests in mind" Love this argument (NOT) 30% dont vote as a result we get radical self-serving governments. So rather than shame or force the non voters to get off their arses and exercise their franchise if only to write "none of the corrupt gits" across the ballot Ill join them... Anyone else see the obvious flaw in the tactic? | |||
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"It's true, alot of people don't vote and we are getting tempted to go the same way, and can you blame people who don't vote. Politics is self serving. Why should I vote for any of these party's when not a single one of them has the average people's interests in mind" One of them is going to win and you might as well use your vote to help the one closest to your views to get elected. No party will ever be a perfect match for a voter's views. | |||
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"It's true, alot of people don't vote and we are getting tempted to go the same way, and can you blame people who don't vote. Politics is self serving. Why should I vote for any of these party's when not a single one of them has the average people's interests in mind One of them is going to win and you might as well use your vote to help the one closest to your views to get elected. No party will ever be a perfect match for a voter's views." Onny can you imagine the shit it would cause if at any election there was 100% turnout and 30+% over the votes had something like none of these corrupt bastards written across the papers? I think the political classes would have a heart attack! | |||
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" The stated aim was to rebalance the housing stock and stop "subsidising" "spare" rooms. As soon as the largest group of under-occupiers is deemed exempt then the aim cannot be achieved. Anyhoo, we are beginning to see the change in direction as the local and MEP elections are this year and only 15 months until the General Election. An incentive rather than a penalty would have worked far better to rebalance the occupancy of social housing stock. But this government cannot see the long term benefits of a little investment, and since we're all just scroungers we are ripe to be financially penalised. The irony being that many are able to claim back the bedroom tax from a different part of the system. " Stated aims and real aims are not the same... I believe that the bedroom tax has done exactly what it was meant to do. It has pushed more labour voters out of the rich tory heartland and at the same time disenfranchised them in such a way that the tories can claim it was not them! Remember that Tory comes from the Irish "toraidhe" the meaning of which is highwayman, outlaw or thief. Tories have always stolen from the poor and always will. | |||
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"What went wrong is that, as a nation, we didn't continue to build houses. Keeping supply down keeps prices up and that suits some folks greedier instincts. Maggie got the right to buy passed by promising that the funds raised would be used to build more social housing... And then it slipped her mind to do it! My problem with the bedroom tax is that only those on benefits are being charged it. So you can have two homes on the same street with the same number of occupants under-occupying and only the ones on benefits are penalised.
so very true and that it wrong . "The ones in privately rented accommodation can only claim HB for the size of house appropriate for the number of occupants. If a married couple with no kids rent a three bedroom house and claim HB, they only get the agreed local amount for a 1 bedroom house. Other rules apply re children relating to age and gender. | |||
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"It's true, alot of people don't vote and we are getting tempted to go the same way, and can you blame people who don't vote. Politics is self serving. Why should I vote for any of these party's when not a single one of them has the average people's interests in mind" Then don't vote for Lab/Lib/Con ... In our household we've decided to vote Green. Not necessarily because we agree with 100% of their policies. But they have the advantage (1) they are not Lib/Lab/Con and (2) they are not UKIP/BNP If *everyone* did the same (and recent reports certainly suggest so many people are fed up with the whole lot of them that it's definitely a trend) then we might get some policies which are good for the country as a whole. | |||
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"It's true, alot of people don't vote and we are getting tempted to go the same way, and can you blame people who don't vote. Politics is self serving. Why should I vote for any of these party's when not a single one of them has the average people's interests in mind Then don't vote for Lab/Lib/Con ... In our household we've decided to vote Green. Not necessarily because we agree with 100% of their policies. But they have the advantage (1) they are not Lib/Lab/Con and (2) they are not UKIP/BNP If *everyone* did the same (and recent reports certainly suggest so many people are fed up with the whole lot of them that it's definitely a trend) then we might get some policies which are good for the country as a whole." Another wasted vote. | |||
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"It's true, alot of people don't vote and we are getting tempted to go the same way, and can you blame people who don't vote. Politics is self serving. Why should I vote for any of these party's when not a single one of them has the average people's interests in mind Then don't vote for Lab/Lib/Con ... In our household we've decided to vote Green. Not necessarily because we agree with 100% of their policies. But they have the advantage (1) they are not Lib/Lab/Con and (2) they are not UKIP/BNP If *everyone* did the same (and recent reports certainly suggest so many people are fed up with the whole lot of them that it's definitely a trend) then we might get some policies which are good for the country as a whole." Like more green policies ... Which cost the earth ! One of the reasons gas prices are so high now is due to the green tax ! | |||
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"One of the reasons gas prices are so high now is due to the green tax ! " Oh right... And there was me thinking that it was because we closed down the coal mines, then not producing enough coal we found the price of importing coal went through the roof so we closed down the coal fired power-stations and built gas powered stations to fill the shortfall using up our gas reserves. Then when we discovered a massive gas field in Morecambe bay our government sold it off at a knockdown price to ICI... Or maybe I have it wrong... | |||
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"One of the reasons gas prices are so high now is due to the green tax ! Oh right... And there was me thinking that it was because we closed down the coal mines, then not producing enough coal we found the price of importing coal went through the roof so we closed down the coal fired power-stations and built gas powered stations to fill the shortfall using up our gas reserves. Then when we discovered a massive gas field in Morecambe bay our government sold it off at a knockdown price to ICI... Or maybe I have it wrong... " I said one of them ! I'd be all for opening up the mines again What I'm saying is . We pay a premium for clean fuels | |||
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"Can I be thick as someone who has never claimed HB? I thought you could still be working and claim HB is that right? It is about how much you earn? Isn't this 'tax' as it is called all about how much HB you can claim? So if you are a single parent with 1 child you can only claim for the HB for a 2 bedroom house? But if you are a single parent with 2 children you can claim HB for a 3 bedroom house. Is my understanding correct? " Yes, working people can claim housing benefit. Your claim should be based on what size you need but that then doesn't take account of actual rent and the property you have. The property you have may be out of your control. The cap on what you claim does not reflect the prices charged in particular areas. So a friend who was run over and is now unable to work has had to claim HB. As she is in London she has a shortfall in HB of £300 a month and is therefore building up arrears. Until her compensation claim is settled she's stuck. | |||
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" The cap on what you claim does not reflect the prices charged in particular areas." I seem to remember the government addressed that issue... I believe the principle is if you need to claim housing benefit you should move to an area with low rents. Like the wastelands of the north where its OK to frack... | |||
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" The cap on what you claim does not reflect the prices charged in particular areas. I seem to remember the government addressed that issue... I believe the principle is if you need to claim housing benefit you should move to an area with low rents. Like the wastelands of the north where its OK to frack..." And free up all that lovely London property to achieve its full market value. | |||
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"Can I be thick as someone who has never claimed HB? I thought you could still be working and claim HB is that right? It is about how much you earn? Isn't this 'tax' as it is called all about how much HB you can claim? So if you are a single parent with 1 child you can only claim for the HB for a 2 bedroom house? But if you are a single parent with 2 children you can claim HB for a 3 bedroom house. Is my understanding correct? Yes, working people can claim housing benefit. Your claim should be based on what size you need but that then doesn't take account of actual rent and the property you have. The property you have may be out of your control. The cap on what you claim does not reflect the prices charged in particular areas. So a friend who was run over and is now unable to work has had to claim HB. As she is in London she has a shortfall in HB of £300 a month and is therefore building up arrears. Until her compensation claim is settled she's stuck. " Tanks for explaining , that is much clearer. Reading these threads can get a little distracting about what the actual issue. | |||
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"Can I be thick as someone who has never claimed HB? I thought you could still be working and claim HB is that right? It is about how much you earn? Isn't this 'tax' as it is called all about how much HB you can claim? So if you are a single parent with 1 child you can only claim for the HB for a 2 bedroom house? But if you are a single parent with 2 children you can claim HB for a 3 bedroom house. Is my understanding correct? " It depends on the age and gender of the children. I think children over 10 of different genders are expected to have separate rooms. | |||
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"Scotland is just goin to scrap the bedroom tax later this week.,.im proud to be Scottish YEEEEEEEEHA !! "Don't get carried away. This is about perhaps being able to find the money to mitigate the effects for a year. It looks to me like that year ends in March 2014. No indication yet what happens then. | |||
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"Scotland is just goin to scrap the bedroom tax later this week.,.im proud to be Scottish YEEEEEEEEHA !!
Don't get carried away. This is about perhaps being able to find the money to mitigate the effects for a year.
It looks to me like that year ends in March 2014. No indication yet what happens then."A good year to implement this though with the referendum this year and the general election next year. At the moment any mitigation is welcome. | |||
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"Scotland is just goin to scrap the bedroom tax later this week.,.im proud to be Scottish YEEEEEEEEHA !!
Don't get carried away. This is about perhaps being able to find the money to mitigate the effects for a year.
It looks to me like that year ends in March 2014. No indication yet what happens then.". .i sense you are a pessimist,Thats coming from me a pessimist.,.but even i can read between the lines...a good indicator is whatever the Sun newspaper says can be dodgey .but the good old daily record isni usually far wrong.. i bet you a curlywurly | |||
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"Scotland is just goin to scrap the bedroom tax later this week.,.im proud to be Scottish YEEEEEEEEHA !!
Don't get carried away. This is about perhaps being able to find the money to mitigate the effects for a year.
It looks to me like that year ends in March 2014. No indication yet what happens then.. .i sense you are a pessimist,Thats coming from me a pessimist.,.but even i can read between the lines...a good indicator is whatever the Sun newspaper says can be dodgey .but the good old daily record isni usually far wrong.. i bet you a curlywurly "No, it's just that I've seen too many people promised stuff which has never been delivered. It's not always politicians faults. Different bits of the media pick up on different aspects of plans for their own purposes, present it as a done deal and its always the poor chump at the bottom of the pile who gets shat on from a great height. Politicians from across Holyrood have been insisting for months that this situation could be resolved if others put their mind to it. Until now, for reasons best known to themselves, they've chosen not to. I wonder why. | |||
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"Scotland is just goin to scrap the bedroom tax later this week.,.im proud to be Scottish YEEEEEEEEHA !!
Don't get carried away. This is about perhaps being able to find the money to mitigate the effects for a year.
It looks to me like that year ends in March 2014. No indication yet what happens then.. .i sense you are a pessimist,Thats coming from me a pessimist.,.but even i can read between the lines...a good indicator is whatever the Sun newspaper says can be dodgey .but the good old daily record isni usually far wrong.. i bet you a curlywurly
No, it's just that I've seen too many people promised stuff which has never been delivered.
It's not always politicians faults. Different bits of the media pick up on different aspects of plans for their own purposes, present it as a done deal and its always the poor chump at the bottom of the pile who gets shat on from a great height.
Politicians from across Holyrood have been insisting for months that this situation could be resolved if others put their mind to it.
Until now, for reasons best known to themselves, they've chosen not to.
I wonder why.
". i dont .but it will get scrapped anyway...in my humble opinion  | |||
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