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Union flag

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By *ong-legged-diva OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Fleetwood

If Scotland does end up going independent will the union flag have to be changed I.e. removing the St. Andrew's Cross from it?

If we're updating it anyway should the welsh finally be represented on it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nice to see you called the union flag not union jack.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does someone watch QI?

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

The Union Flag and Jack are the same thing just run up different Poles!

And YES! I know I used a capital...

Seems the Poles get everywhere

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

but I like it

Can't the jocks just get another flag

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" but I like it

Can't the jocks just get another flag "

they have a flag of there own don't they?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" but I like it

Can't the jocks just get another flag

they have a flag of there own don't they?"

Yes but it's incorporated into the Union flag.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I doubt it will be an issue, the Yes vote will be obliterated. Even Salmond probably dont think we can go it alone, hes just an egomaniac, who promised this stupid vote and hasnt the balls admit it. Hes nothing more than an anti English bigot. It wont happen. We would still have to sponge off England anyway, just like the Irish who are still fleecing the UK, 90 years after supposedly going it alone, India and Pakistan too.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I doubt it will be an issue, the Yes vote will be obliterated. Even Salmond probably dont think we can go it alone, hes just an egomaniac, who promised this stupid vote and hasnt the balls admit it. Hes nothing more than an anti English bigot. It wont happen. We would still have to sponge off England anyway, just like the Irish who are still fleecing the UK, 90 years after supposedly going it alone, India and Pakistan too. "

You are in desperate need of an education.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I doubt it will be an issue, the Yes vote will be obliterated. Even Salmond probably dont think we can go it alone, hes just an egomaniac, who promised this stupid vote and hasnt the balls admit it. Hes nothing more than an anti English bigot. It wont happen. We would still have to sponge off England anyway, just like the Irish who are still fleecing the UK, 90 years after supposedly going it alone, India and Pakistan too.

Bag pipes at the ready

You are in desperate need of an education. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If Scotland does end up going independent will the union flag have to be changed I.e. removing the St. Andrew's Cross from it?

If we're updating it anyway should the welsh finally be represented on it?"

It would have to be. And yes the Welsh should be added - unless they're off next..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I doubt it will be an issue, the Yes vote will be obliterated. Even Salmond probably dont think we can go it alone, hes just an egomaniac, who promised this stupid vote and hasnt the balls admit it. Hes nothing more than an anti English bigot. It wont happen. We would still have to sponge off England anyway, just like the Irish who are still fleecing the UK, 90 years after supposedly going it alone, India and Pakistan too.

You are in desperate need of an education. "

Can you tell us why please, without ranting. I really don't understand it.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

If you think Salmond is no more anti English than a gay rights campaigner is anti straight. It's a pathetic argument which only comes from those with nothing more to add.

England does not subsidise Scotland. Even the "no" camp have stopped pedalling this myth. Anyone who thinks this needs to read more.

Independence is a natural state for person and for country. It's about fairness and equality and democracy and it absolutely will happen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"England does not subsidise Scotland"

England doesn't. But then the question is of independence from the UK.. but that doesn't answer the question about the flag.

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By *rsK69Woman
over a year ago

Neath

Yeh nice big red dragon in the middle will be awesome

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan


"I doubt it will be an issue, the Yes vote will be obliterated. Even Salmond probably dont think we can go it alone, hes just an egomaniac, who promised this stupid vote and hasnt the balls admit it. Hes nothing more than an anti English bigot. It wont happen. We would still have to sponge off England anyway, just like the Irish who are still fleecing the UK, 90 years after supposedly going it alone, India and Pakistan too. "

May I ask how are the Irish "fleecing" the UK "90 years after going it alone"?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yeh nice big red dragon in the middle will be awesome "

Not a small sheep in the corner?

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By *rsK69Woman
over a year ago

Neath


"Yeh nice big red dragon in the middle will be awesome

Not a small sheep in the corner?"

Yeh and one of them....... With a bloke.on his knees behind it?!?! pmsl

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

If the yes vote wins the day (which i suspect wont happen) then yes i believe the union flag should be redesigned  

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yeh nice big red dragon in the middle will be awesome

Not a small sheep in the corner?

Yeh and one of them....... With a bloke.on his knees behind it?!?! pmsl "

They should redraw the flag from scratch with caricatures of each countries stereotypes - be much more interesting

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By *rsK69Woman
over a year ago

Neath


"Yeh nice big red dragon in the middle will be awesome

Not a small sheep in the corner?

Yeh and one of them....... With a bloke.on his knees behind it?!?! pmsl

They should redraw the flag from scratch with caricatures of each countries stereotypes - be much

more interesting "

Can see it now flying outside Buckigham Palace !!

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By *rsK69Woman
over a year ago

Neath

Buckingham **

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

England doesn't. But then the question is of independence from the UK.. but that doesn't answer the question about the flag."

I know but I was countering the point he made that we " sponge of the the English." We don't sponge of the uk either. We more than pay our way and would a whole lot better if we could tailor our own financies to suit Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you think Salmond is no more anti English than a gay rights campaigner is anti straight. It's a pathetic argument which only comes from those with nothing more to add.

England does not subsidise Scotland. Even the "no" camp have stopped pedalling this myth. Anyone who thinks this needs to read more.

Independence is a natural state for person and for country. It's about fairness and equality and democracy and it absolutely will happen. "

Again, can you please explain

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Again, can you please explain "

Sorry, explain what?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We have out own flag thank you and some of us are very happy with it!!

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By *hynottsCouple
over a year ago

nottingham


"The Union Flag and Jack are the same thing just run up different Poles!

And YES! I know I used a capital...

Seems the Poles get everywhere"

Only union jack when flowen of the jack on a navy ship the jack is a small mast

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Again, can you please explain

Sorry, explain what?"

Well, you stated that the previous poster needed educating. I was simply asking just how you think Scotland would able to function free from subsidy etc, when other countries, including England for that matter, fail to.

Simply saying 'it will happen' to counter someone else's 'it won't happen' is not a reasoned debate now is it.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Well, you stated that the previous poster needed educating. I was simply asking just how you think Scotland would able to function free from subsidy etc, when other countries, including England for that matter, fail to.

Simply saying 'it will happen' to counter someone else's 'it won't happen' is not a reasoned debate now is it. "

Well that's not what I did, is it? I didn't simply say 'it will happen.' I pointed out where he was wrong in order to counter his point.

Scotland pays more in than it gets out so financially it makes sense.

We never ever vote Tory but they have been in power over half my 36 years and nigel farage, on question time more than any other politician is recent years, got physically kicked out if Scotland so democratically it makes sense.

We have 1 in 4 kids in poverty, food banks and people on benefits being demonised. We also have nuclear weapons and House of Lords. Both the latter will go so equality-wise it makes sense.

I'm Scottish and I want Scotland to be a country and to take it's place in the world. I want to watch the Olympic ceremony and not see almost every national flag in the world except my own. So emotionally it makes sense.

The graph is going up the way and these yes voters won't disappear overnight so if we don't get a yes cote this time, we will next time. It will happen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There don't appear to be any plans to change the union flag but there were some design ideas put forward last year based on various criteria and to be honest they were all pretty hideous!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

England doesn't. But then the question is of independence from the UK.. but that doesn't answer the question about the flag.

I know but I was countering the point he made that we " sponge of the the English." We don't sponge of the uk either. We more than pay our way and would a whole lot better if we could tailor our own financies to suit Scotland. "

You were beginning a rant about independence. I don't give a toss if you can pay your way or not - that's an issue for those of you involved in the referendum - make your choice in September and we'll deal with it.

In the meantime I'm off to sketch some suggestions for new flags.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Should simply be a flag with a bin wagon in the middle

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

England doesn't. But then the question is of independence from the UK.. but that doesn't answer the question about the flag.

I know but I was countering the point he made that we " sponge of the the English." We don't sponge of the uk either. We more than pay our way and would a whole lot better if we could tailor our own financies to suit Scotland.

You were beginning a rant about independence. I don't give a toss if you can pay your way or not - that's an issue for those of you involved in the referendum - make your choice in September and we'll deal with it.

In the meantime I'm off to sketch some suggestions for new flags."

Ok. So a guy can come on here and call Salmond and anti English bigot, spout a fountain of ill thought out crap and you expect me to leave it unchallenged? This is a forum, I'll say what wish. Counter it if you disagree, ignore if you don't care.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

England doesn't. But then the question is of independence from the UK.. but that doesn't answer the question about the flag.

I know but I was countering the point he made that we " sponge of the the English." We don't sponge of the uk either. We more than pay our way and would a whole lot better if we could tailor our own financies to suit Scotland.

You were beginning a rant about independence. I don't give a toss if you can pay your way or not - that's an issue for those of you involved in the referendum - make your choice in September and we'll deal with it.

In the meantime I'm off to sketch some suggestions for new flags.

Ok. So a guy can come on here and call Salmond and anti English bigot, spout a fountain of ill thought out crap and you expect me to leave it unchallenged? This is a forum, I'll say what wish. Counter it if you disagree, ignore if you don't care. "

I don't want to ignore it. I want you to know how much I don't care.

Have you given an opinion on the flag yet?

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Have you given an opinion on the flag yet?"

I don't care.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Well, you stated that the previous poster needed educating. I was simply asking just how you think Scotland would able to function free from subsidy etc, when other countries, including England for that matter, fail to.

Simply saying 'it will happen' to counter someone else's 'it won't happen' is not a reasoned debate now is it.

Well that's not what I did, is it? I didn't simply say 'it will happen.' I pointed out where he was wrong in order to counter his point.

Scotland pays more in than it gets out so financially it makes sense.

We never ever vote Tory but they have been in power over half my 36 years and nigel farage, on question time more than any other politician is recent years, got physically kicked out if Scotland so democratically it makes sense.

We have 1 in 4 kids in poverty, food banks and people on benefits being demonised. We also have nuclear weapons and House of Lords. Both the latter will go so equality-wise it makes sense.

I'm Scottish and I want Scotland to be a country and to take it's place in the world. I want to watch the Olympic ceremony and not see almost every national flag in the world except my own. So emotionally it makes sense.

The graph is going up the way and these yes voters won't disappear overnight so if we don't get a yes cote this time, we will next time. It will happen. "

To be honest with you, to paraphrase, I wouldn't want you to be a member of something you don't want to be in either. If you asked the majority of English people, and lets be fair that's where your beef lies, they'd echo that.

But the fact remains we are here in this partnership, and if by a democratic decision you all take, you don't get your way, then in you stay.

I'm every bit as English as you are Scottish my friend and very proud of the differences in our cultural heritage I am too. But I appreciate the strength in partnership too.

The pound is British not English. Same as our parliament. As is our defence.

The subsidy alone for the latter would cripple a tiny population like yours.

I think it's you who needs the education my friend.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

To be honest with you, to paraphrase, I wouldn't want you to be a member of something you don't want to be in either. If you asked the majority of English people, and lets be fair that's where your beef lies, they'd echo that.

But the fact remains we are here in this partnership, and if by a democratic decision you all take, you don't get your way, then in you stay.

I'm every bit as English as you are Scottish my friend and very proud of the differences in our cultural heritage I am too. But I appreciate the strength in partnership too.

The pound is British not English. Same as our parliament. As is our defence.

The subsidy alone for the latter would cripple a tiny population like yours.

I think it's you who needs the education my friend. "

How perfectly patronising. Firstly my beef is not at all with the English. Not in the slightest. My 'beef' is with the system, the Tories who manipulate it to line their own pocket and those if their friends, and those in Scotland foolish enough to be taken in by it. If English voters wish to elect them, go ahead.

The biggest myth about this is that's it's somehow anti English or that we have a chip on our shoulder. It's incredibly frustrating. We just want to make our own decisions as we are clearly diverging from the rest of the UK over the last 30 years. Illegal wars, trident, bedroom tax, Tories, House of Lords, expenses scandals of people we have never heard of. It is not right and our children are growing up with an inherent inferiority complex that is evident today.

You say "crippling a tiny population like ours". Explain to me why Norway is the richest country in Europe? They have the same population as Scotland! What about Sweden, Denmark? Should they all just abandon their nations and become scandanvia in order to be bigger, stronger and bigger and more powerful and bigger and ooh, a seat a the top table so we can be bigger and stronger and blah blah blah.

Defence? Please. Scotland won't be galvanting around the world behind the USA invading countries and pissing everyone off so why would we need a 30 billion defence budget? Does Ireland? No. A small, independent, peaceful country.

Not that difficult is it?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

.......... Norway .....

........"

House!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/01/14 11:37:13]

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

.......... Norway .....

........

House!"

Yeah best not mention it. It throws up too many tough questions for you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it offensive to put forward a pint if view on this subject only to be told that I am patronising. You mention the Scandinavian countries, yet make no effort to illustrate their similarity to their economies with your own. Theirs are vastly different and built upon different principles.

And for the record. I'm a socialist and have been all my life. Now whose being patronising.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pint of view??! Idiot. Point!

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

.......... Norway .....

........

House!"

Remember kids, do not try to be successful. To not try to emulate successful countries. Know your place. Stay where you are. Todays lesson is DO NOT TRY TO BE SOMETHING YOU ARE NOT. YOU WILL FAIL.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston


"The Union Flag and Jack are the same thing just run up different Poles!

And YES! I know I used a capital...

Seems the Poles get everywhere

Only union jack when flowen of the jack on a navy ship the jack is a small mast "

Actually its a Jack Staff (a small vertical spar mounted on the prow of a ship) not a mast.

And if you check you will find that a staff is a pole

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I find it offensive to put forward a pint if view on this subject only to be told that I am patronising. You mention the Scandinavian countries, yet make no effort to illustrate their similarity to their economies with your own. Theirs are vastly different and built upon different principles.

And for the record. I'm a socialist and have been all my life. Now whose being patronising. "

I called you patronising because you assumed my beef was with the English.

Now tell me, what is wrong with trying to change Scotland for the better? Why not try to emulate nearby successful countries? Change is good! Think if

Scotland as a Southern Scandinavian country rather than a Northern European country. What is wrong with this?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wonder what they'd call the new flag?

The Not Quite a Union Jack?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I find it offensive to put forward a pint if view on this subject only to be told that I am patronising. You mention the Scandinavian countries, yet make no effort to illustrate their similarity to their economies with your own. Theirs are vastly different and built upon different principles.

And for the record. I'm a socialist and have been all my life. Now whose being patronising.

I called you patronising because you assumed my beef was with the English.

Now tell me, what is wrong with trying to change Scotland for the better? Why not try to emulate nearby successful countries? Change is good! Think if

Scotland as a Southern Scandinavian country rather than a Northern European country. What is wrong with this? "

Change can be excellent. As long as its for the right reasons. I wish you well with your democratic right to campaign.

And I'm afraid I don't believe you re the beef with the English. Sorry.

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"The Union Flag and Jack are the same thing just run up different Poles!

And YES! I know I used a capital...

Seems the Poles get everywhere

Only union jack when flowen of the jack on a navy ship the jack is a small mast "

It was decided last year by some bloke what does flags, that either is correct and there's now no reason to be pedantic about it! He also questioned whether the traditional naval meaning of the 'Jack' part was correct, as it may have originated from the bloke what had it designed in the first place, James I (or VI for our Scottish friends)

The QI that was on Dave earlier in the week was quite old, so flag matey hadn't made his declaration yet!

As for the question, have you seen it without the blue? Looks very odd!

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

[Removed by poster at 08/01/14 11:53:00]

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Change can be excellent. As long as its for the right reasons. I wish you well with your democratic right to campaign.

And I'm afraid I don't believe you re the beef with the English. Sorry. "

Thank you. I am sure independence will happen. The trend is only going one way and as long as discussions like this are happening all over Scotland where myths are being countered and corrected then slowly people are going to start seeing what can can be achieved.

And if you still think my beef is with the English despite me telling you it is not, then I am once again calling you patronising. I've told who my beef is with. And it's not a 'beef' either. People in Scotland just need facts and they will hopefully see the light before sept 18th

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull


"If you think Salmond is no more anti English than a gay rights campaigner is anti straight. It's a pathetic argument which only comes from those with nothing more to add.

England does not subsidise Scotland. Even the "no" camp have stopped pedalling this myth. Anyone who thinks this needs to read more.

Independence is a natural state for person and for country. It's about fairness and equality and democracy and it absolutely will happen. "

Oh, I'd just love to see your face when it doesn't happen!

But if here has to be a new flag, why not the following.....

The Blue Saltire, onto which is the image of... A Deep Fried Mars Bar

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Oh, I'd just love to see your face when it doesn't happen!

"

A little harsh. Would you actually want to mock or gloat? Why?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd love to see a newly designed national flag with the Welsh dragon peeking over the top.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

May I ask how are the Irish "fleecing" the UK "90 years after going it alone"? [/quoteThe bankrupt Irish Free State got a €10 billion bale out from the UK just last year, kept very low key, just after theyd been given something like €160 billion previously from the euro. Independence will be defeated because Scottish people are a bit more clever than Salmond gives them credit for, they know we will Scotland will be bankrupt without the UK. Better Together.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'd love to see a newly designed national flag with the Welsh dragon peeking over the top. "

I'd settle for your avatar...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All that Union Jack underwear could become collectable..

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I doubt it will be an issue, the Yes vote will be obliterated. Even Salmond probably dont think we can go it alone, hes just an egomaniac, who promised this stupid vote and hasnt the balls admit it. Hes nothing more than an anti English bigot. It wont happen. We would still have to sponge off England anyway, just like the Irish who are still fleecing the UK, 90 years after supposedly going it alone, India and Pakistan too. "

I wouldn't accuse Salmond of bigotry, unlike some of the cybernats who infest the net.

You're right. It won't happen and the Scottish Executive will have spent the last few years doing fuck all for fuck all.

Their latest trick is to try to do away with the need for corroboration of evidence in court cases.

That essentially means that is someone accuses you, you're guilty.

It's a ploy to increase the conviction rate - even at the risk of convicting the wrong people.

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By *onnoisseur100Man
over a year ago

Woking-ish


"The Union Flag and Jack are the same thing just run up different Poles!

And YES! I know I used a capital...

Seems the Poles get everywhere

Only union jack when flowen of the jack on a navy ship the jack is a small mast "

Not true; it was made official only a few months ago. The flag is either the Union Jack or Union Flag. It is entirely the choice of the person using the term.

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"The Union Flag and Jack are the same thing just run up different Poles!

And YES! I know I used a capital...

Seems the Poles get everywhere

Only union jack when flowen of the jack on a navy ship the jack is a small mast

Not true; it was made official only a few months ago. The flag is either the Union Jack or Union Flag. It is entirely the choice of the person using the term.

"

Echo, echo, echo...

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan


"May I ask how are the Irish "fleecing" the UK "90 years after going it alone"? [/quoteThe bankrupt Irish Free State got a €10 billion bale out from the UK just last year, kept very low key, just after theyd been given something like €160 billion previously from the euro. Independence will be defeated because Scottish people are a bit more clever than Salmond gives them credit for, they know we will Scotland will be bankrupt without the UK. Better Together."

A little learning can indeed be a dangerous thing.

The bail out that you speak of, while less than 10 billion, is a loan, which is charged at a substantially higher rate than the ECB rate, therefore it is simply a profit making commercial transaction by the British exchequer. Maybe you should have read the whole article.

As regards Scotland, who owns the oilfields?

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

As regards Scotland, who owns the oilfields? "

Well the oilfields that lie in Scottish waters will of course belong to Scotland post independence. This is why the Tories and various historical uk governments have been so keen to hang on on Scotland as the McCrone report scandal indicates.

Our economy wouldn't be dependent on it as it's finite but it's not a bad addition to the nations finances!

The reason the no side hate Norway being mentioned is because Norway have 500 billion in an oil fund and the uk is skint. Mismanagement? Well, yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most of the Union Jacks waved at the royal wedding were made in China. Allegedly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"May I ask how are the Irish "fleecing" the UK "90 years after going it alone"? [/quoteThe bankrupt Irish Free State got a €10 billion bale out from the UK just last year, kept very low key, just after theyd been given something like €160 billion previously from the euro. Independence will be defeated because Scottish people are a bit more clever than Salmond gives them credit for, they know we will Scotland will be bankrupt without the UK. Better Together.

A little learning can indeed be a dangerous thing.

The bail out that you speak of, while less than 10 billion, is a loan, which is charged at a substantially higher rate than the ECB rate, therefore it is simply a profit making commercial transaction by the British exchequer. Maybe you should have read the whole article.

As regards Scotland, who owns the oilfields? "

Sure where's the fun in reading the whole article Mick? Not much opportunity for outrage and indignation and resentment if you read and understand the whole thing. No craic in that at all.

You know what you should all do about the FLEG? Organise a good protest! Hours of fun for all the family.

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan


"May I ask how are the Irish "fleecing" the UK "90 years after going it alone"? [/quoteThe bankrupt Irish Free State got a €10 billion bale out from the UK just last year, kept very low key, just after theyd been given something like €160 billion previously from the euro. Independence will be defeated because Scottish people are a bit more clever than Salmond gives them credit for, they know we will Scotland will be bankrupt without the UK. Better Together.

A little learning can indeed be a dangerous thing.

The bail out that you speak of, while less than 10 billion, is a loan, which is charged at a substantially higher rate than the ECB rate, therefore it is simply a profit making commercial transaction by the British exchequer. Maybe you should have read the whole article.

As regards Scotland, who owns the oilfields?

Sure where's the fun in reading the whole article Mick? Not much opportunity for outrage and indignation and resentment if you read and understand the whole thing. No craic in that at all.

You know what you should all do about the FLEG? Organise a good protest! Hours of fun for all the family. "

I once had a meet with a Belfast girl who wore union jack knickers. As soon as I pulled them down she organised a feckin' protest march!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"May I ask how are the Irish "fleecing" the UK "90 years after going it alone"? [/quoteThe bankrupt Irish Free State got a €10 billion bale out from the UK just last year, kept very low key, just after theyd been given something like €160 billion previously from the euro. Independence will be defeated because Scottish people are a bit more clever than Salmond gives them credit for, they know we will Scotland will be bankrupt without the UK. Better Together.

A little learning can indeed be a dangerous thing.

The bail out that you speak of, while less than 10 billion, is a loan, which is charged at a substantially higher rate than the ECB rate, therefore it is simply a profit making commercial transaction by the British exchequer. Maybe you should have read the whole article.

As regards Scotland, who owns the oilfields? "
Fair enough but a loan that is unlikely to be paid and they still needed to come crawling to the UK, like Scotland will have to do when we are in same position. Scotland cant afford to go alone, the sums do not add up. As for the Oil, it was UK cash that funded it.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


" As for the Oil, it was UK cash that funded it. "

Funded what ?

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"Most of the Union Jacks waved at the royal wedding were made in China. Allegedly."

Ha, reminded me of the old Bill Hicks riff on burning flags!

http://youtu.be/y-UGv4XsEWQ

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"May I ask how are the Irish "fleecing" the UK "90 years after going it alone"? [/quoteThe bankrupt Irish Free State got a €10 billion bale out from the UK just last year, kept very low key, just after theyd been given something like €160 billion previously from the euro. Independence will be defeated because Scottish people are a bit more clever than Salmond gives them credit for, they know we will Scotland will be bankrupt without the UK. Better Together.

A little learning can indeed be a dangerous thing.

The bail out that you speak of, while less than 10 billion, is a loan, which is charged at a substantially higher rate than the ECB rate, therefore it is simply a profit making commercial transaction by the British exchequer. Maybe you should have read the whole article.

As regards Scotland, who owns the oilfields?

Sure where's the fun in reading the whole article Mick? Not much opportunity for outrage and indignation and resentment if you read and understand the whole thing. No craic in that at all.

You know what you should all do about the FLEG? Organise a good protest! Hours of fun for all the family.

I once had a meet with a Belfast girl who wore union jack knickers. As soon as I pulled them down she organised a feckin' protest march! "

Hmm. Tricky one. You need to respect our culture and heritage you see Michael. Bent over a skip with the knickers pulled to the side following a nice bottle of Buckfast Tonic Wine might've been the answer to that one?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you will find that it was the oil companies that funded the exploration and extraction of oil

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling


" but I like it

Can't the jocks just get another flag "

The "jocks", as you put it, do have their flag, you know that blue and white one

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling


" but I like it

Can't the jocks just get another flag "

The "jocks", as you put it, do have their flag, you know that blue and white one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"May I ask how are the Irish "fleecing" the UK "90 years after going it alone"? [/quoteThe bankrupt Irish Free State got a €10 billion bale out from the UK just last year, kept very low key, just after theyd been given something like €160 billion previously from the euro. Independence will be defeated because Scottish people are a bit more clever than Salmond gives them credit for, they know we will Scotland will be bankrupt without the UK. Better Together.

A little learning can indeed be a dangerous thing.

The bail out that you speak of, while less than 10 billion, is a loan, which is charged at a substantially higher rate than the ECB rate, therefore it is simply a profit making commercial transaction by the British exchequer. Maybe you should have read the whole article.

As regards Scotland, who owns the oilfields? Fair enough but a loan that is unlikely to be paid and they still needed to come crawling to the UK, like Scotland will have to do when we are in same position. Scotland cant afford to go alone, the sums do not add up. As for the Oil, it was UK cash that funded it. "

Sooo.... The UK doesn't owe anyone money? Cos I thought we owed about a gazillion quid. Maybe there was no "crawling" involved in that tho? Did you go "crawling" to your bank for your mortgage?

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan


"Fair enough but a loan that is unlikely to be paid and they still needed to come crawling to the UK, like Scotland will have to do when we are in same position. Scotland cant afford to go alone, the sums do not add up. As for the Oil, it was UK cash that funded it. "

Why do you think it won't be repaid?

What do you mean by "needed to come crawling to the uk"? As I recall, it was an offer of a loan, which was accepted.

As for your explanation of the oil.. I think nature created that quite a while before UK cash was discovered

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness

Regarding the flag question, I believe it would need to be changed. And there is also the potential for debate that the United Kingdom would need to be renamed. As 1 of the founding nations would no longer be part of it.

I seen a lot of crap about anti Englishness as part of the reasons that Scotland wants its independance, and it is just rubbish.

If Scotland was to get its independance then our biggest friends would be the English and same for us with England. Biggest reason would be trade. This is why if we do get independance there wont be any border patrols, we will still be using sterling as both of those would only affect this trade.

Oil is obviously a massive factor in this. With it Scotland would be extremely prosperous, without it, we couldnt go it alone. A lot of the better together critics say that the oil will run out. It will, but then the oil companies will just move to the west coast of Scotland. Where there is even more oil.

The better together campaign can only offer more of the dreary same thing thats happened over the past 100 years. Selling all our assests for peanuts. British Rail, Royal Mail to name 2. Gordon Brown (who is scottish) selling all our gold for next to nothing.

Bring on this vote. It is going to be a lot closer than anyone suspects.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Nothing like the butchers' apron to stir up a good bunfight...

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Without oil and gas, output per head in Scotland is 99% of the UK average and the highest in the UK outside London and the southeast. It's not all about oil.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Most of the Union Jacks waved at the royal wedding were made in China. Allegedly.

Ha, reminded me of the old Bill Hicks riff on burning flags!

http://youtu.be/y-UGv4XsEWQ

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does anybody have a white one?

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"Without oil and gas, output per head in Scotland is 99% of the UK average and the highest in the UK outside London and the southeast. It's not all about oil. "

Yes I agree its not all about oil, but the people in Scotland would be silly not to realize its the reason that the UK dont want to let us go.

And while people will think once the oil dries up we will be skint, thats not true. The oil would be properly invested into the nation, not squandered like what has happened countless times by the UK government.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Nothing like the butchers' apron to stir up a good bunfight... "

Agreed!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

blue peter will run a competition no doubt

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Yes I agree its not all about oil, but the people in Scotland would be silly not to realize its the reason that the UK dont want to let us go.

And while people will think once the oil dries up we will be skint, thats not true. The oil would be properly invested into the nation, not squandered like what has happened countless times by the UK government.

"

Precisely. There is plenty left to really out to good use. It's an amazing opportunity we have here. Just need to hope message gets out there in time and I'm sure it will.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I agree its not all about oil, but the people in Scotland would be silly not to realize its the reason that the UK dont want to let us go."

I shouldn't assume too much of what people in the UK want. I haven't met many (any) desperately trying to cling to Scotland.

But I would like to see a dragon on the flag. Maybe some lions too.

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east

I have heard alot from people south of the border say ... i dont care what scotland do ..let them get on with it.....if i lived in england,wales or n.ireland ...id be worried.....the reason being the arguement of whether scotland contribute more or less than they take out of uk coffers....now if we do infact contribute MORE as many people now believe ..where will that leave the rest of the uk without that injection from north of the border.....there is a serious lack of fact coming out of westminster at the moment ....WHY ???

i was firmly in the NO camp but the more i read and the more silence coming from westminster ...is beginning to sway me .

Everyone in the UK should be asking questions and demanding proper factual answers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Everyone in the UK should be asking questions and demanding proper factual answers

"

We don't have any say in the matter.

Facts are only facts when they fit with what you want to hear.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"blue peter will run a competition no doubt"

I've started my entry already. Can't find the blue paint though..

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"Yes I agree its not all about oil, but the people in Scotland would be silly not to realize its the reason that the UK dont want to let us go.

I shouldn't assume too much of what people in the UK want. I haven't met many (any) desperately trying to cling to Scotland.

But I would like to see a dragon on the flag. Maybe some lions too."

The average English person is more than happy to let us go alone I agree. Its the Uk government that dont want us to go, because they know exactly what Scotland brings to the table in the UK. More and more secrets are coming out of the period that thatcher was in charge, and its shocking how much she hated scotland. Recent news that I heard was she wanted to cut Scotlands budget significantly but in secret. We already knew about it, but its nice to have the proof in paper

In my opinion it will be what remains of the Uk that will struggle if Scotland gets its independence. But thats just my opinion.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

As regards Scotland, who owns the oilfields?

Well the oilfields that lie in Scottish waters will of course belong to Scotland post independence. This is why the Tories and various historical uk governments have been so keen to hang on on Scotland as the McCrone report scandal indicates.

Our economy wouldn't be dependent on it as it's finite but it's not a bad addition to the nations finances!

The reason the no side hate Norway being mentioned is because Norway have 500 billion in an oil fund and the uk is skint. Mismanagement? Well, yes. "

The reason we laugh when Norway and the oil fund is mentioned is because Norway started 40 years ago - when there was still LOTS of money to be made in oil.

The glory days have gone and anyway, every penny of projected income from oil is promised elsewhere in Eck and Nicola's 600 odd page Shite Paper.

Norway was also held up as part of the now discredited Arc of Prosperity. The other two members were Iceland and Ireland. Nuff said.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

i was firmly in the NO camp but the more i read and the more silence coming from westminster ...is beginning to sway me .

"

I swear I hear this every week a least once. This is what mean about the tide turning. People are beginning to ask serious questions. It's fascinating.

My advice to anyone undecided or feeling like a "default no" as in you 'don't really know why but it just seems wrong' is to ask both "yes Scotland" and "better together" Facebook pages (or contact them directy) the difficult questions that are important to you. And don't accept their answer - check it. Double check it and ask again. It's too important not take this seriously.

If everyone does this, then the mire that uk politics finds itself in will change and something new is going to happen.

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness

Im just waiting for Cameron to give into pressure and have a tv debate with Salmond.

Everyone should watch it, even our friends south of the border. And your eyes will be opened.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

i was firmly in the NO camp but the more i read and the more silence coming from westminster ...is beginning to sway me .

I swear I hear this every week a least once. This is what mean about the tide turning. People are beginning to ask serious questions. It's fascinating.

............. "

"once a week" till mid-September is how many votes?

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By *UNKIEMan
over a year ago

south east


"Everyone in the UK should be asking questions and demanding proper factual answers

We don't have any say in the matter.

Facts are only facts when they fit with what you want to hear."

just because its out of your hands doesnt mean you cant ask questions of where that will leave you if scotland break away

as for facts ...there hasnt been any from either side lol

Scotland .....we can do this and we can do that

Westminster... you cant afford it

Scotland... yes we can

Wesminster ... no you cant

Scotland.....why cant we afford it

Westminster ...cause we said so

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Im just waiting for Cameron to give into pressure and have a tv debate with Salmond.

Everyone should watch it, even our friends south of the border. And your eyes will be opened."

He won't.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

"once a week" till mid-September is how many votes?"

But I am one person!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Everyone in the UK should be asking questions and demanding proper factual answers

We don't have any say in the matter.

Facts are only facts when they fit with what you want to hear.

just because its out of your hands doesnt mean you cant ask questions of where that will leave you if scotland break away

as for facts ...there hasnt been any from either side lol

Scotland .....we can do this and we can do that

Westminster... you cant afford it

Scotland... yes we can

Wesminster ... no you cant

Scotland.....why cant we afford it

Westminster ...cause we said so

"

We were promised answers to all the questions we could possibly ask in the Shite Paper.

All it has is 600 pages of uncosted 'promises'.

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"Im just waiting for Cameron to give into pressure and have a tv debate with Salmond.

Everyone should watch it, even our friends south of the border. And your eyes will be opened.

He won't. "

He desperately doesn't want to, why not though?

I think he will have to give into pressure eventually though.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

He won't. "

For once we agree. Even those who hate Salmond will usually agree he is stronger politically and at debating than Cameron by far. The arguments for the union are weak and Cameron will be comprehensively beaten on live tv.

Suicidal move for Cameron. Unfortunately for him, he now has to look like a fool by stating that the debate for the future of the UK should be between Scotland first minister and a labour back bencher.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I love that some people in this thread think that Scotland doesn't have its own flag. LMAO! And i just hope all these "Scots" who have commented here and are going to vote NO understand that if we lose the vote they no longer have any right to complain about government policy. My t-shirt shall say "Don't complain to me, i voted YES."

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"Everyone in the UK should be asking questions and demanding proper factual answers

We don't have any say in the matter.

Facts are only facts when they fit with what you want to hear.

just because its out of your hands doesnt mean you cant ask questions of where that will leave you if scotland break away

as for facts ...there hasnt been any from either side lol

Scotland .....we can do this and we can do that

Westminster... you cant afford it

Scotland... yes we can

Wesminster ... no you cant

Scotland.....why cant we afford it

Westminster ...cause we said so

We were promised answers to all the questions we could possibly ask in the Shite Paper.

All it has is 600 pages of uncosted 'promises'."

Well a lot of scotland getting independence is unknown.

I like a lot of what was said in the white paper, and there will be more papers to come.

What have the better together campaign given us? Facts of what our history in recent years have been is pretty much it.

Increased unemployment. Selling off our nations assests. Tax rises. massive increase in poverty. Allowing british banks to almost ruin our country? Yes I know RBS was 1 of the bigger criminals in this, but it was still the UK government that let them do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thats so funny i would like to buy it and make it into a comedy show

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Haha did someone skip history class lol

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I reckon _nvercouple have fallen for the brainwashing.

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"I reckon _nvercouple have fallen for the brainwashing."

In what way?

Im putting my faith in a party that has helped out my life significantly in the past.

I have my house because of an SNP created scheme. called the lift scheme.

I have free prescriptions. Council tax freeze. free education.

Instillation of fiber optic internet in Inverness and broadband throughout the highlands of Scotland. Dualling of the A9, the main road through the north of Scotland. Dualling of the A96 the road from Inverness to Aberdeen.

Cheaper Rail travel than the rest of the UK because they were smart enough to restrict what First Group could increase ticket prices by.

All in all life in Scotland is better than the UK and if were lucky enough to get a Yes vote, it will just get better in my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Again, can you please explain

Sorry, explain what?"
. I'll save u the bothe of googling it Various English kings have sought to rule the whole island of Great Britain and some also decided to take over Ireland as well. They did this because;

They were annoyed about the Welsh and Scots invading parts of England and wanted to stop them doing it again,

They were worried other European countries - like France or Spain or Norway - would use Ireland or Wales or Scotland as a base from which to attack England,

They would get more money and more prestige as kings if they increased the size of their kingdom,

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I reckon _nvercouple have fallen for the brainwashing.

In what way?

Im putting my faith in a party that has helped out my life significantly in the past.

I have my house because of an SNP created scheme. called the lift scheme.

I have free prescriptions. Council tax freeze. free education.

Instillation of fiber optic internet in Inverness and broadband throughout the highlands of Scotland. Dualling of the A9, the main road through the north of Scotland. Dualling of the A96 the road from Inverness to Aberdeen.

Cheaper Rail travel than the rest of the UK because they were smart enough to restrict what First Group could increase ticket prices by.

All in all life in Scotland is better than the UK and if were lucky enough to get a Yes vote, it will just get better in my opinion."

I can add to that too. I'm at university right now because of the snp. I couldn't afford tuition fees otherwise.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I reckon _nvercouple have fallen for the brainwashing.

In what way?

Im putting my faith in a party that has helped out my life significantly in the past.

I have my house because of an SNP created scheme. called the lift scheme.

I have free prescriptions. Council tax freeze. free education.

Instillation of fiber optic internet in Inverness and broadband throughout the highlands of Scotland. Dualling of the A9, the main road through the north of Scotland. Dualling of the A96 the road from Inverness to Aberdeen.

Cheaper Rail travel than the rest of the UK because they were smart enough to restrict what First Group could increase ticket prices by.

All in all life in Scotland is better than the UK and if were lucky enough to get a Yes vote, it will just get better in my opinion."

I reckon _nvercouple have fallen for the brainwashing AND the bribes.

btw, LIFT is just a branding of shared equity, which has been around since before Eck was even a stain in the inside of his faither's kilt.

I'll believe the dualling of the A9 when it happens. Post referendum (either way) I reckon it'll be quietly dumped.

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"

Again, can you please explain

Sorry, explain what?. I'll save u the bothe of googling it Various English kings have sought to rule the whole island of Great Britain and some also decided to take over Ireland as well. They did this because;

They were annoyed about the Welsh and Scots invading parts of England and wanted to stop them doing it again,

They were worried other European countries - like France or Spain or Norway - would use Ireland or Wales or Scotland as a base from which to attack England,

They would get more money and more prestige as kings if they increased the size of their kingdom,"

Back in medieval times all nations were as bad as each other. Some scots cry about english raping women ect ect, but Scots did it to women in England as well. The borders between Scotland and England were always changing.

What gave peace mostly was when James VI of scotland became king of England and he brought about the idea of a United Kingdom. A couple of highland rebellions happened after that, but that wasnt Scotland v England, that was rebels v the crown.

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"I reckon _nvercouple have fallen for the brainwashing.

In what way?

Im putting my faith in a party that has helped out my life significantly in the past.

I have my house because of an SNP created scheme. called the lift scheme.

I have free prescriptions. Council tax freeze. free education.

Instillation of fiber optic internet in Inverness and broadband throughout the highlands of Scotland. Dualling of the A9, the main road through the north of Scotland. Dualling of the A96 the road from Inverness to Aberdeen.

Cheaper Rail travel than the rest of the UK because they were smart enough to restrict what First Group could increase ticket prices by.

All in all life in Scotland is better than the UK and if were lucky enough to get a Yes vote, it will just get better in my opinion.

I can add to that too. I'm at university right now because of the snp. I couldn't afford tuition fees otherwise.

A student? You should have said.

That explains much."

Its funny that you criticize but bring nothing to the table. If what we are saying is wrong, then please do correct us

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"...........

Its funny that you criticize but bring nothing to the table. If what we are saying is wrong, then please do correct us "

I'm quite content for the Yes camp to make their case, such as it is.

People will either believe them or not.

I have complete confidence in the people of Scotland to see straight through their lies.

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"...........

Its funny that you criticize but bring nothing to the table. If what we are saying is wrong, then please do correct us

I'm quite content for the Yes camp to make their case, such as it is.

People will either believe them or not.

I have complete confidence in the people of Scotland to see straight through their lies."

A perfect example of the better together campaign. Do nothing, say nothing, just deny everything the Yes campaign say.

And you claim im brainwashed?

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

A perfect example of the better together campaign. Do nothing, say nothing, just deny everything the Yes campaign say.

And you claim im brainwashed? "

He does say "shite paper" instead if white paper though. That's pretty good. And Eck.

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"I reckon _nvercouple have fallen for the brainwashing.

In what way?

Im putting my faith in a party that has helped out my life significantly in the past.

I have my house because of an SNP created scheme. called the lift scheme.

I have free prescriptions. Council tax freeze. free education.

Instillation of fiber optic internet in Inverness and broadband throughout the highlands of Scotland. Dualling of the A9, the main road through the north of Scotland. Dualling of the A96 the road from Inverness to Aberdeen.

Cheaper Rail travel than the rest of the UK because they were smart enough to restrict what First Group could increase ticket prices by.

All in all life in Scotland is better than the UK and if were lucky enough to get a Yes vote, it will just get better in my opinion.

I can add to that too. I'm at university right now because of the snp. I couldn't afford tuition fees otherwise. "

Of course you could afford tuition fees! You know they're the cheapest form of loan ever, other than The Bank of Mum and Dad, don't you?

Jeez, I'll owe about £50k in 3 years time, how much of that do you think they'll ever see back?,

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

A perfect example of the better together campaign. Do nothing, say nothing, just deny everything the Yes campaign say.

And you claim im brainwashed?

He does say "shite paper" instead if white paper though. That's pretty good. And Eck. "

Stick around. I have plenty more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" but I like it

Can't the jocks just get another flag "
Some of us"Jocks" like the union flag!

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley


"

My reaction was far more likely to cause the atmosphere to lighten up a little

Ha, maybe. Ach he's just a guy struggling with this modern world. Fears change. Wee swipe at students gives him away more than his garbage posts with nothing constructive to add. I just pity him.

Anyway no, I get a loan too, to live on. But the fees are covered by my good friends the taxpayer! "

The fees are ultimately the same as the loan, except you don't have to pay yours back...whereas, I probably won't pay mine back!

You're being a bit harsh on Onny, he's one of the few round here that can usually be relied on to speak a bit of sense, rather than the reactionary, jingoistic, right wing bollocks that's normally spouted on here.

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness

Just had a thought about the flag.

Lots of commonwealth countries incorporate the Union flag in their own. So there is the potential that both Scotland and the remainder of the UK will have it incorporated in their own flags.

Thats if the UK change theirs at all, as from what I just read, there is nothing that states they would have to change it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just had a thought about the flag.

Lots of commonwealth countries incorporate the Union flag in their own. So there is the potential that both Scotland and the remainder of the UK will have it incorporated in their own flags.

Thats if the UK change theirs at all, as from what I just read, there is nothing that states they would have to change it."

So it could become the flag of the Commonwealth.

Until they all leave that too..

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling


"...........

Its funny that you criticize but bring nothing to the table. If what we are saying is wrong, then please do correct us

I'm quite content for the Yes camp to make their case, such as it is.

People will either believe them or not.

I have complete confidence in the people of Scotland to see straight through their lies."

And that is why they will vote yes, or are you simply implying that only the 'yes' camp lie?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yeh nice big red dragon in the middle will be awesome

Not a small sheep in the corner?

Yeh and one of them....... With a bloke.on his knees behind it?!?! pmsl "

The thread has gone on somewhat since my earlier comment, but I doubt I will find a funnier reply. Good on ya lol I say bring the taffy's in

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan

Is part of the union flag not the saltire of Saint Patrick? Surely given that you lot only held onto a small corner of our island, you should only have held onto a small corner of our flag as well?

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"Is part of the union flag not the saltire of Saint Patrick? Surely given that you lot only held onto a small corner of our island, you should only have held onto a small corner of our flag as well? "

Wooo the Irish have landed into the debate

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By *aulatv_ukTV/TS
over a year ago

Rhyl

The Scottish referendum vote will affect everyone one in the UK, one way or another so shouldn't everyone in the UK have the right to vote wether Scotland should go independent or remain in the union. It does and will affect us all.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"The Scottish referendum vote will affect everyone one in the UK, one way or another so shouldn't everyone in the UK have the right to vote wether Scotland should go independent or remain in the union. It does and will affect us all. "

Sorry but I utterly disagree. If you want to leave your partner, you decide and you go. You don't ask permission.

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan


"The Scottish referendum vote will affect everyone one in the UK, one way or another so shouldn't everyone in the UK have the right to vote wether Scotland should go independent or remain in the union. It does and will affect us all. "

The empire would've lasted forever using thatmodel of democracy!

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By *ezebelWoman
over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest

Ive removed posts. Can you keep the personal bickering out of it please. Thanks.

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By *aulatv_ukTV/TS
over a year ago

Rhyl

Your not scared that the rest of the UK would vote not to let Scotland go independent are you

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan


"Is part of the union flag not the saltire of Saint Patrick? Surely given that you lot only held onto a small corner of our island, you should only have held onto a small corner of our flag as well?

Wooo the Irish have landed into the debate "

We were dragged into it back near the start!

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"Ive removed posts. Can you keep the personal bickering out of it please. Thanks."

If any of my posts have caused offense, I apologies. But as you can imagine this referendum is a massive thing currently in Scotland and its hard to keep a lid on the emotions that rise up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" but I like it

Can't the jocks just get another flag

they have a flag of there own don't they?"

We do, just as you have your own, the St. George's Cross

We both share the Union Flag but have our own seperate ones as well.

I'm not a fan of the St Andrew's Cross to be honest. I'm more of a Lion Rampant fan lol

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By *wingerdelightCouple
over a year ago

eastliegh

if the scots want to go their own way then good luck to them, in the real world is it going to change anything, im not so sure

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


" but I like it

Can't the jocks just get another flag

they have a flag of there own don't they?

We do, just as you have your own, the St. George's Cross

We both share the Union Flag but have our own seperate ones as well.

I'm not a fan of the St Andrew's Cross to be honest. I'm more of a Lion Rampant fan lol"

the lion rampant is a great looking flag, but its the royal flag, legaly were not even allowed to fly it in our own gardens. 1 of those silly old laws that isnt enforced these days.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Your not scared that the rest of the UK would vote not to let Scotland go independent are you"

The whole point of this is that Scotland and the rest of the UK have been diverging politically for years and years. We don't vote Tory. We don't do the farage thing. Nuclear weapons and bedroom tax is almost universally hated here.

What is the point in having a uk wide vote on whether the UK should continue to decide things for Scotland?

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"Your not scared that the rest of the UK would vote not to let Scotland go independent are you

The whole point of this is that Scotland and the rest of the UK have been diverging politically for years and years. We don't vote Tory. We don't do the farage thing. Nuclear weapons and bedroom tax is almost universally hated here.

What is the point in having a uk wide vote on whether the UK should continue to decide things for Scotland?"

Also we werent conquered into joining the united kingdom, we helped create it as an equal partner, if we dont want to be in it, its for us and us alone to decide.

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By *ezebelWoman
over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest


"Ive removed posts. Can you keep the personal bickering out of it please. Thanks.

If any of my posts have caused offense, I apologies. But as you can imagine this referendum is a massive thing currently in Scotland and its hard to keep a lid on the emotions that rise up.

"

No the debate and differing opinions are fine....personal digs are not.

If your posts havent been removed that means there was no problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Your not scared that the rest of the UK would vote not to let Scotland go independent are you

The whole point of this is that Scotland and the rest of the UK have been diverging politically for years and years. We don't vote Tory. We don't do the farage thing. Nuclear weapons and bedroom tax is almost universally hated here.

What is the point in having a uk wide vote on whether the UK should continue to decide things for Scotland?"

I'm not a Tory voter, but i know a lot of people who are.

Although they've done very poorly at the UK elections, they have managed to get 18 seats in 1999, 18 seats in 2003, 17 in 2007 and 15 in 2011.

So someone's voting Tory.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

So someone's voting Tory.

"

Of course someone is. There is one Tory mp on Scotland out of 59. So he got voted in.

But seriously - 1 out of 59 seat and Cameron is the pm?

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness

[Removed by poster at 08/01/14 16:18:58]

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By *aulatv_ukTV/TS
over a year ago

Rhyl

Maybe the rest of the UK would vote for Scotland to go independent. It might create a bit of employment as government contracts would then be offered to only England, Ireland and Wales, also what money that did go to Scotland would be divided between the remaining 3 countries

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"...also what money that did go to Scotland would be divided"

What money?

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan


"Maybe the rest of the UK would vote for Scotland to go independent. It might create a bit of employment as government contracts would then be offered to only England, Ireland and Wales, also what money that did go to Scotland would be divided between the remaining 3 countries"

You've lost me with that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Your not scared that the rest of the UK would vote not to let Scotland go independent are you

The whole point of this is that Scotland and the rest of the UK have been diverging politically for years and years. We don't vote Tory. We don't do the farage thing. Nuclear weapons and bedroom tax is almost universally hated here.

What is the point in having a uk wide vote on whether the UK should continue to decide things for Scotland?

Also we werent conquered into joining the united kingdom, we helped create it as an equal partner, if we dont want to be in it, its for us and us alone to decide."

We were never an equal partner. We sold out for English gold after we squandered ours. Can see that happening again. But as a scot living in England I wont get to vote no.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

There really does seem to be a rather strange idea that we don't raise our own money here. That we survive purely on budget from Westminster...

The money we raise is tax goes straight to Westminster. The money we get from Westminster in our grant is less than the money we raise in tax. This has been the case every year for 30 years!

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By *ong-legged-diva OP   TV/TS
over a year ago

Fleetwood

Geez, you leave a thread for 8 hours so you can sleep, not knowing you've unwittingly started world war three.

Back slightly towards the topic, 50 bonus points to the first person to tell me why the welsh are not represented on the union flag

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Geez, you leave a thread for 8 hours so you can sleep, not knowing you've unwittingly started world war three.

Back slightly towards the topic, 50 bonus points to the first person to tell me why the welsh are not represented on the union flag "

Because they were already part of England - well that's what they thought..

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By *hemissinglinkMan
over a year ago

Greatt Barr

This is interesting to read. There's me thinking that there was harmonious joy between England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

Personally, the union is historic and should remain. Historically, countries who have won independence from the empire, have failed miserably.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Geez, you leave a thread for 8 hours so you can sleep, not knowing you've unwittingly started world war three.

Back slightly towards the topic, 50 bonus points to the first person to tell me why the welsh are not represented on the union flag "
. Because Wales were united with England since the 13th century and was not classed as a kingdom

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On the 24 March 1603 Queen Elizabeth did and Scottish king James VI was proclaimed the King of England. It was received with protest or Disturbance. On The 5 April 1603 James left Edinburgh and only returned once in 1617. So under the rules of succession it could be said that England became part of Scotland. But as Scotland was a back water he used the title King of England.

Gruffydd ap Lywelyn was only man to rule all of Wales. from about 1057 to 1063. He was never called the king of Wale put rather as the "King of the Britons". So Wales as fully unified country did not last long. The so called "Head of all Wales died in 1197. Wales has for a very long time been part of the England.

If Scotland wants to dissolve the act of union. They let them. BUT we not give them a penny at all and it was a one way ticket. I bet you will find their new currency will be devalue like a lead blown.

As for the flag yes just remove the blue from it I say.

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By *ichael McCarthyMan
over a year ago

Lucan


"This is interesting to read. There's me thinking that there was harmonious joy between England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

Personally, the union is historic and should remain. Historically, countries who have won independence from the empire, have failed miserably.

"

Mostly because of what the empire has done to them before they managed to extract themselves from it! Pillage, plunder, divide and conquer, etc. That's hardly an argument for continuing with the status quo though.

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"This is interesting to read. There's me thinking that there was harmonious joy between England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

Personally, the union is historic and should remain. Historically, countries who have won independence from the empire, have failed miserably.

"

lol what?

USA?

Australia?

India?

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

If Scotland wants to dissolve the act of union. They let them. BUT we not give them a penny at all and it was a one way ticket. I bet you will find their new currency will be devalue like a lead blown.

As for the flag yes just remove the blue from it I say.

"

Deal! Sign here please.

So no national debt for us? I'll take that!

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By *nvercoupleCouple
over a year ago

Inverness


"

If Scotland wants to dissolve the act of union. They let them. BUT we not give them a penny at all and it was a one way ticket. I bet you will find their new currency will be devalue like a lead blown.

As for the flag yes just remove the blue from it I say.

Deal! Sign here please.

So no national debt for us? I'll take that!"

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By *hemissinglinkMan
over a year ago

Greatt Barr


"This is interesting to read. There's me thinking that there was harmonious joy between England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

Personally, the union is historic and should remain. Historically, countries who have won independence from the empire, have failed miserably.

Mostly because of what the empire has done to them before they managed to extract themselves from it! Pillage, plunder, divide and conquer, etc. That's hardly an argument for continuing with the status quo though. "

I agree with you one million percent. However I think it's a strong argument when you look at the economy of these countries. To leave would be detrimental to the way of life.

Jamaica gained independence and then was strategically cut off from trading channels. It would be a shame if this happened to Scotland, although I think in these recent times they stand a much better chance than my Jamaican ancestors.

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By *hemissinglinkMan
over a year ago

Greatt Barr


"This is interesting to read. There's me thinking that there was harmonious joy between England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland.

Personally, the union is historic and should remain. Historically, countries who have won independence from the empire, have failed miserably.

lol what?

USA?

Australia?

India?

"

USA is on the brink of total financial collapse and is detested by pretty much every other country because of their bullish ways and countless attempts to start wars

Indian has only recently been classed as an 'emerging economy'. Before that the country was considered 3rd world.

And Australia was an island where convicts were sent to get them off English soil. Cost of living is astronomical and their track record for inclusion is appalling.

Not great examples of break away states.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

If Scotland wants to dissolve the act of union. They let them. BUT we not give them a penny at all and it was a one way ticket. I bet you will find their new currency will be devalue like a lead blown.

As for the flag yes just remove the blue from it I say.

Deal! Sign here please.

So no national debt for us? I'll take that!"
England would be nowhere now if they had not of taken over the scots irish and welsh England was in it for the tax payers money and that was it greed is a awful thing

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Jamaica gained independence and then was strategically cut off from trading channels. It would be a shame if this happened to Scotland, although I think in these recent times they stand a much better chance than my Jamaican ancestors. "

I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that Scotland’s economy includes £21.4 billion in construction which employs 170,000 people, £11.6 billion in tourism which supports 292,000 jobs, £39 billion yearly turnover in manufacturing with a value added of £12.7 billion and 127,000 people employed. Scotland also has world leading expertise in life science, world class universities (5 in the world’s top 200), a multi-billion pound creative sector and vast energy (oil, gas, tidal, wave, wind and solar), fishing and agricultural resources.

We really will be fine!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

If Scotland wants to dissolve the act of union. They let them. BUT we not give them a penny at all and it was a one way ticket. I bet you will find their new currency will be devalue like a lead blown.

As for the flag yes just remove the blue from it I say.

Deal! Sign here please.

So no national debt for us? I'll take that!

"

No HNS, Army, Navy, Air force, DHS, pensions or banks. Nothing to guaranty your cash as well.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

No HNS, Army, Navy, Air force, DHS, pensions or banks. Nothing to guaranty your cash as well.

"

Why wouldn't we have banks? Are

You for real?

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By *hemissinglinkMan
over a year ago

Greatt Barr


"

Jamaica gained independence and then was strategically cut off from trading channels. It would be a shame if this happened to Scotland, although I think in these recent times they stand a much better chance than my Jamaican ancestors.

I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that Scotland’s economy includes £21.4 billion in construction which employs 170,000 people, £11.6 billion in tourism which supports 292,000 jobs, £39 billion yearly turnover in manufacturing with a value added of £12.7 billion and 127,000 people employed. Scotland also has world leading expertise in life science, world class universities (5 in the world’s top 200), a multi-billion pound creative sector and vast energy (oil, gas, tidal, wave, wind and solar), fishing and agricultural resources.

We really will be fine!"

I'll just require something for you as you seem to have completely missed that part of my post.

"...It would be a shame if this happened to Scotland, although I think in these recent times they stand a much better chance than my Jamaican ancestors. "

But please do look into who owns the industries you've mentioned. I heard Donald Trump was closely linked to your countries finances.

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Jamaica gained independence and then was strategically cut off from trading channels. It would be a shame if this happened to Scotland, although I think in these recent times they stand a much better chance than my Jamaican ancestors.

I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that Scotland’s economy includes £21.4 billion in construction which employs 170,000 people, £11.6 billion in tourism which supports 292,000 jobs, £39 billion yearly turnover in manufacturing with a value added of £12.7 billion and 127,000 people employed. Scotland also has world leading expertise in life science, world class universities (5 in the world’s top 200), a multi-billion pound creative sector and vast energy (oil, gas, tidal, wave, wind and solar), fishing and agricultural resources.

We really will be fine!

I'll just require something for you as you seem to have completely missed that part of my post.

"...It would be a shame if this happened to Scotland, although I think in these recent times they stand a much better chance than my Jamaican ancestors. "

But please do look into who owns the industries you've mentioned. I heard Donald Trump was closely linked to your countries finances. "

I'm agreeing with you. I'm just stating that we have a bit more going on industry wise than people seem to think.

And no, trump doesn't have anything to do with our finances. That's one of the more bizarre things stated today I must say. He owns a old course, if that's what your thinking of?

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By *aulatv_ukTV/TS
over a year ago

Rhyl

Personally I hope Scotland do go independent and the do make a good go of it and prosper but and it's a big but, if it does not work out don't come running back to mummy.

Long live William Wallace or was it Mel Gibson, I'm terrible at history

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


" don't come running back to mummy.

Long live William Wallace

"

Right, yeah. Thanks.

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By *hemissinglinkMan
over a year ago

Greatt Barr


"

Jamaica gained independence and then was strategically cut off from trading channels. It would be a shame if this happened to Scotland, although I think in these recent times they stand a much better chance than my Jamaican ancestors.

I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that Scotland’s economy includes £21.4 billion in construction which employs 170,000 people, £11.6 billion in tourism which supports 292,000 jobs, £39 billion yearly turnover in manufacturing with a value added of £12.7 billion and 127,000 people employed. Scotland also has world leading expertise in life science, world class universities (5 in the world’s top 200), a multi-billion pound creative sector and vast energy (oil, gas, tidal, wave, wind and solar), fishing and agricultural resources.

We really will be fine!

I'll just require something for you as you seem to have completely missed that part of my post.

"...It would be a shame if this happened to Scotland, although I think in these recent times they stand a much better chance than my Jamaican ancestors. "

But please do look into who owns the industries you've mentioned. I heard Donald Trump was closely linked to your countries finances.

I'm agreeing with you. I'm just stating that we have a bit more going on industry wise than people seem to think.

And no, trump doesn't have anything to do with our finances. That's one of the more bizarre things stated today I must say. He owns a old course, if that's what your thinking of? "

I read a story that implicated Donald Trump in Scotland's finances and questioned his credentials as he's been declared bankrupt a few times. It seemed a legit source at the time. I'll see if I can find the article for you.

Personally, I hope they do gain independence and make a good go of it. Historically, splinter states have struggled. And that was my point.

Your passion for your country is admirable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Jamaica gained independence and then was strategically cut off from trading channels. It would be a shame if this happened to Scotland, although I think in these recent times they stand a much better chance than my Jamaican ancestors.

I'd agree if it weren't for the fact that Scotland’s economy includes £21.4 billion in construction which employs 170,000 people, £11.6 billion in tourism which supports 292,000 jobs, £39 billion yearly turnover in manufacturing with a value added of £12.7 billion and 127,000 people employed. Scotland also has world leading expertise in life science, world class universities (5 in the world’s top 200), a multi-billion pound creative sector and vast energy (oil, gas, tidal, wave, wind and solar), fishing and agricultural resources.

We really will be fine!"

Does it mention anything about debts in that article?

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Does it mention anything about debts in that article?"

No. Doesn't mention anything about assets either.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Does it mention anything about debts in that article?

No. Doesn't mention anything about assets either. "

such as?

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

I read a story that implicated Donald Trump in Scotland's finances and questioned his credentials as he's been declared bankrupt a few times. It seemed a legit source at the time. I'll see if I can find the article for you.

Personally, I hope they do gain independence and make a good go of it. Historically, splinter states have struggled. And that was my point.

Your passion for your country is admirable. "

Thanks mate. It's more than just national pride though. It's common sense. Oh and trump thing, honestly it's just the golf complex he owns in Aberdeenshire.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/01/14 17:45:12]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/01/14 17:45:08]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/01/14 17:45:04]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/01/14 17:44:53]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/01/14 17:44:57]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't have a clue as to how the vote will go, also no idea how the finances will get split up or how either side will benefit / lose on the deal.

But after a bit of agro in the beginning of the relationship, the last few hundred years have been pretty good, just hope if relate doesn't work, we can at least stay cordial for the sake of the children

As for the flag it can no longer be called the Union anything, can't be called GB either as that is no longer the same as when the name was coined... so the design is only a small part of the issue...

What are we going to call it?

My vote is we drop the flag / jack suffix and change that to a UNIFIED name of "fluttery thing" and change the prefix to "assembly of countries with their own assemblies but some common interests".

A stupid name, but will be great fun when we win anything at the Olympics and the commentator has to say it as the:-

"assembly of countries with their own assemblies but some common interests fluttery thing" is raised

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wow 6 posts from 1 click! is this a record?

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By *uncan20004Man
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

such as? "

Seriously you want me to list Scotland's assets? How about 8.4% of everything the uk owns. Worth 109 billion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

such as?

Seriously you want me to list Scotland's assets? How about 8.4% of everything the uk owns. Worth 109 billion. "

The ones you think you can take - yes please..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

No HNS, Army, Navy, Air force, DHS, pensions or banks. Nothing to guaranty your cash as well.

Why wouldn't we have banks? Are

You for real?"

All UK banks use pound sterling, this banked up by then Government and the bank of England. It is guaranteed by Gold mostly and government bonds.

So must statement was misleading, for that I am sorry.

They will have no central government bank.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

such as?

Seriously you want me to list Scotland's assets? How about 8.4% of everything the uk owns. Worth 109 billion.

The ones you think you can take - yes please.."

and presumably that will be the same basis for calculating the ownership of all assets?

That would cock the figures up a fair bit wouldn't it!

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