FabSwingers.com forum: Long term unemployed = Unemployable?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I know of someone who hasn't had a job longer than a couple of weeks. When he has been employed, he normally hates it and quits/gets fired very soon. His approach to life is quite relaxed but in his family very few actually work or have any ambition to go up the career ladder so to speak.

He is 32 and currently a student looking to complete his degree next year. And i personally wonder what he is going to do after he has finished. I am not sure i could even live with him again knowing he is quite unemployable due to his lack of work on his CV and in this day and age, first impressions do count.

So it got me thinking, does the topic of this post make sense? What is it in society that is making people stay on benefits long term? I understand, don't get me wrong, that sometimes people are in certain circumstances or have a medical condition but for others i believe it is simple lazyness.

I believe this starts during school and that parents should be the first port of call to try and motivate people when they are younger to try their hardest if they want to succeed. I am aware of Job Centres and other organisations but has anyone dealt with them? Have you been on benefits for a while and now employed? Was it a lot of trouble getting employed again and ready for the working world?

What are your thoughts? =)

Edit: I am not putting anyone down, just speculating for discussion's sake! lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So it got me thinking, does the topic of this post make sense? What is it in society that is making people stay on benefits long term?"

Personally I blame smokers -- they're paying for it!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i believe a lot of it stems back to parenting.....i was never allowed to stay at home from school unless i was genuinely too ill to go...i do the same with my own children....teach them punctuality and the importance of being reliable and that you dont get something for nothing....i think this stands them in good stead for their work life ethic

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i dont know really.

some people it becomes a dependency on benefits and cant break the routine to be slef reliant.

others pure lazy f""*ers who couldnt work in a convulsion.

others its pointless to work 40 hrs at the minimum wage to be left roughly 40 quid a wk better off after payin bills etc.

others its lack of social skills and cant fit into the role of work.

others its the upbringing no work ethic no example from parents we looking at 3rd generation unemployed in some families.

then the flips side of the coin people who are genuinely cant work due to illness or disability being forced into work by benefits agency when they obviously not fit to work thus takin a job someone else could have had , to be in the job for a few wks to end up off with sickness or stress or whatever.xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

@mznwty: You raise a good point about working 40 hours a week and being left with almost nothing. There are always stories in the Daily Mail about families on benefits earning more than someone working a full time week...in this day and age, it does work out better to not work due to the levels of tax on income. =/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"@mznwty: You raise a good point about working 40 hours a week and being left with almost nothing. There are always stories in the Daily Mail about families on benefits earning more than someone working a full time week...in this day and age, it does work out better to not work due to the levels of tax on income. =/"

the daily mail spouts more shite than a burst sewage pipe!

you dont earn benefits you receive them as a basic safety net. i dont know how people can live these extravagant lifestyles on them!

i know when i was on income support i had less than £100 to keep me and kiddo by time paid gas and electric and food nappies etc it sure didnt leave very much luckily was only on it for a few wks but it was completely soul destroying x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i am currently unemployed for the last 7 mounths

before then i have 12 years of IT work behind me from support and tea boy to systems design and security

as my wife works and brings in less than £12k we get basicly nothign in benifits terms as she earns too much thay say

i am desperate ot find a job have skills and experiance but i am being asked a lot "what have you done since your loast job"

and the honest awnser is not helping me at all

additionaly in IT at the level i was and hope ot work again the longer you are out of it the more behind you are as technology moves on fast

so if people are better off on benifits i would love to know how thay manage it

but more so i dont want to be unemployed i want a job

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

the daily mail spouts more shite than a burst sewage pipe!

you dont earn benefits you receive them as a basic safety net. i dont know how people can live these extravagant lifestyles on them!

That is what i meant about the Daily Mail - they make very speculative news stories. I do confess sometimes it makes interesting reading such as:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1260761/Labour-tax-benefit-reforms-punished-families-earning-30-000.html

I don't know much about benefits though i confess. I often see stories about families with 7 children earning something stupid like £50k a year but then you think, "Hang on...50k does NOT go far with 7 children!".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"completely soul destroying x"

this is how i feel it is easy to fall into doubting yourself and your skills the longet it gose on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"£50k a year but then you think, "Hang on...50k does NOT go far with 7 children!"."

it dosent need to as far as the "news" paper are concerned the headling sells the paper

which makes them money (vis advertising)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

it panders too much to middle england and scaremongering to me!

with 7 children and this is a rough estimate

child benefit 20 for 1st child then 17 each for rest = roughly 102 quid p/wk

child tax credit = 280

income support x2 adults say 150 wk total estimate per wk 532.

granted that is a lot more than what i have comin in a wk even with student loan and wages and maintence etc and i have full rent etc to pay.

but realistically how many families are there with 7 children now?

the one i know with 10 children both mum and dad work .

if wages were a bit better maybe more people would want to work and work would be more rewarding than dossing on the dole xx

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

I think even a rut can become comfortable. Being on the dole is very hard - but, mixed with a bit of wheeler-dealering, it can be better than work. I think, by the way, that the genuine unemployed (there are very many) should have their dole increased).

I suspect that part of the problem is this official non-judgemental thing. It is rergarded as improper to judge someone - so society in fact has no values.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i dont think that everyone on benifits are lazy , from experience i no myself that at first you are positive and hopeful looking for a job yet as the weeks role by it becomes harder and harder to remain as postive so you tend to miss the odd trip to jobby ect eventually you end up with a whats the point attitude ,

i had a levels , good education , even a cerificate from school as id never had a day off in all of high school , good refs from previous employer but wasnt able to find a job that i was experienced in. so my attitude was well ill do something else i was fed up of having no money and my kids going with out so i went back to college which was free as i was on benifits , and i retrained ,

i do think there are people out there who see it as an easy ride but for many it is sole destroying especially for the older ones as job oppourtunites seem to be few and far between , i do think that job centers and colleges need to work more proactively to show people whats on offer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well in our experience both myself and Lolly have always worked, until last year Lolly had 2 jobs, But the Kids dad hasnt worked for 10 years and our eldest (27) has not had a full time job in his life the second eldest (19) has no intention of working theyre both more than happy living at "friends" houses and living off their dole (both chose to move out due to our insisting they get jobs). We have tried to help them both but they have seen how their dad lives and thats the life for them. Maybe their attitude would change if they had to earn their dole!

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By *exeteraWoman
over a year ago

Bridgend

I know families that are 4th generation unemployed and have no intention of finding work. I've been out of work since the end of April 2009 and have been sufferring from depression due to personal stuff I'd rather not go in to here. I've always worked and claimed Employment Support Allowance(ESA) and was called in to the Jobcentre once a month. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) then decided I was capable of work and suspended my ESA. I'm currently appealing their decision, I can't however see how people live like they do on benefits. I receive £35 per week because I receive £28 per week Industrial Injuries Benefit. They pay £73 towards my mortgage each week, this leaves me with a £373 shortfall each month on my mortgage. I have to feed and clothe myself and my 17 year old daughter out of that £62 each week. I just don't know how they manage as I find it difficult.

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By *luffybbbWoman
over a year ago

Manchester

child benefit 20 for 1st child then 17 each for rest = roughly 102 quid p/wk

child tax credit = 280

income support x2 adults say 150 wk total estimate per wk 532.

if wages were a bit better maybe more people would want to work and work would be more rewarding than dossing on the dole xx"

Don't forget the free council tax and free school meals too.

If there is no medical reason for not working I believe in limiting the amount of time benefits can be given. We have probalby all had times where we weren't working. Yet surely if there was a time limit people would be be more driven to find employment, not maybe what they want - however that would give them experience, confidence and therefore become more employable in their choosen field.

I have in the past work unpaid to get my foot in the door. Not for everyone, but I have certainly benefitted. Working for charities can be very rewarding.

Long term sickness, illness, disability etc. is all very different and people need all the support emotional and financial is essential.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What an interesting thread! Can I put the following question out to you all, please:

I cannot imagine anybody really wanting to be out of work long-term. Working and being remunerated equal a self-worth, self esteem and as such is part of Maslow's hierarchy of human needs. It is not always about the income and whether it is sufficient or not....

A large element is about feeling that you contribute something towards society. Now THAT can be done through paid and unpaid work..., and I for one believe mums at home looking after their children are contributing in much the same way as the carer for an elderly relative or the volunteer...

but of course, being paid for something kind of gives that nice sense of recognition at the end of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if i could have afforded to be a stay at home mum i would have loved to have been one but my circumstances meant i had to go out and work for a decent standard of living for me and my child.

luckily i had great family and friends to watch her to let me do this and i know many arent so lucky xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Here's what I would do with folks who are long term unemployed.

Offer training in a range of jobs one of which has to be picked. You know the old saying give a man a fish and he is fed for a day, teach him to fish and he is fed for life.

Problem is you mention training at the Job Centre and its a case of them shaking their heads and looking vacant.

Why pay people thousands a year when you could get them trained to build the skilled workforce Brown is always yabbering about?

I asked about retraining at the Job Centre recently and was told there was a secret fund that 4 different people had to apporve before you went on it. But ssshhhh its a secret.

No joined up thinking. No help. No future. Then you get Daily Mail reactionaries pandering to the jackboot Thatcherite tendencies of some of its readers.

Send em to the saltmines the lot of em. Teach em a lot about life!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm self employed and my wife works. between us we are lucky if we make what could be classed as one 'decent wage'

Out of that we have to pay over 300 quid rent and 100 quid council tax. That takes care of 75% of the wife's wage.

The Profit that I make is sometimes less than the wife's take home pay. Note I said PROFIT. That is what I have left after paying for materials, vehicle expenses, insurance, national insurance and tax etc.

We have a fairly basic lifestyle - nothing posh but we're happy with it but If I could get out of the self employment trap - I'd do it tomorrow, because when it's all boiled down, I'm probably earning less than the basic minimum wage. Only one problem ....... Age, and despite the age discrimination laws bla bla bla bla bla, if your over 40 and looking for a job - your fucked !

I'll be 49 in April and I've lost count of the number of jobs that I've applied for (that I'm qualified and sufficiently experienced to do) and I've either had no response, or have had the interview and not got the job.

It's all down to age - experience doesn't matter one jot, if your too old you don't get the job.

So it's not hard to see why some 'older' people sit on their arse and claim the dole, as much as it annoys me to see them doing it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm self employed and my wife works. between us we are lucky if we make what could be classed as one 'decent wage'

Out of that we have to pay over 300 quid rent and 100 quid council tax. That takes care of 75% of the wife's wage.

It's all down to age - experience doesn't matter one jot, if your too old you don't get the job.

So it's not hard to see why some 'older' people sit on their arse and claim the dole, as much as it annoys me to see them doing it"

And I can see where you are coming from, too. There appears to be a glass ceiling when it comes to age and in an ever more competitive society employers often take on the younger people for a variety of reasons. That does not help those in your situation and it does indeed lead to frustration, as somebody (quite highly qualified) pointed out on another similar thread.

Not sure what the answer is, but I do believe in not making assumptions about people and why they might not be working for I know a number of people in rural Worcestershire who are simply not fortunate to find anything remotely suitable.

Difficult one, eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I know of someone who hasn't had a job longer than a couple of weeks. When he has been employed, he normally hates it and quits/gets fired very soon. His approach to life is quite relaxed but in his family very few actually work or have any ambition to go up the career ladder so to speak.

What are your thoughts? =)

Edit: I am not putting anyone down, just speculating for discussion's sake! lol. "

Sounds work shy! I would get some new mates if i was you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sounds work shy! I would get some new mates if i was you.

Or... alternatively chat to them and see if you can help them find a purposeful occupation, whether it is paid or not?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a fascinating thread. Congrats to all who have contributed to it without it deteriorating into a slanging match. A lot of what I thought I knew about this topic was from the media and it sounds like this was clearly wrong. I've learned a lot from this thread.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

I was made redundant last July (on my birthday) after working for the same firm for almost 23yrs.

I was out of work for 7 months and i hated it, although i did start to fall into the trap of thinking 'hey, this isn't too bad' because my mortgage was being paid for by an insurance policy. That would have ended in August though.

I recently found work via an agency, earning a lot less than i did before but it pays the bills and leaves me with just over £100 per week. Not great for a full weeks work and the place is a shithole - but it is work and i get to keep my house.

I found the jobcentre to be close to useless, i was volunteering with a local outdoor activity centre that has charitable status in order to gain quals in cycle leadership so i could then teach. The jobcentre were only interested in trying to put obstacles in my path, when i mentioned training they can only think in certain trades and if you are outside of that then they aren't interested in what you are trying to achieve.

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By *ustyWoman
over a year ago

inverclyde

i got made redundant in dec but got nothing as only in the job since feb...... i want to work but cant find anything at all and if i do most places want the younger age group as pay them less.... what happend to experience and good skills

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i got made redundant in dec but got nothing as only in the job since feb...... i want to work but cant find anything at all and if i do most places want the younger age group as pay them less.... what happend to experience and good skills"

Dont get disheartened, you will have what is known as "transferrable skills" . Draw up a list of all the things you have done in your job(s) and identify what you have done well, what you enjoyed. Chances are that many of those can be used in other areas, for example if you worked in retail, you are likely to have good interpersonal skills whcih could be used in an office environment, in a telephone marketing company etc, Not suggesting those as specific jobs for you... just saying you will have a lot more strings than you perhaps realise?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree with you I was made redundant in november 2008 i have sent applications off every week to no avail it is now 16 months on and i did find a job but as it was classed as zero hours so would be sighning on and off all the time the job centre said i should turn it down and then said if i work 30 hrs min wage i would be £25 better off before my bills and childcare!!!

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By *ifornowCouple
over a year ago

East Lincs

Proverb.......

“You can tell a man’s character by what he turns up when offered a job—his nose or his sleeves.”

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