FabSwingers.com forum: Marks and Spencers

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Such is my digust at their decision, but I will be buying wine and pork steaks and queuing at the checkout with the women wearing a headscarf...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

whats up?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Such is my digust at their decision, but I will be buying wine and pork steaks and queuing at the checkout with the women wearing a headscarf..."
maybe they don't wish hair in your food .

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

[Removed by poster at 22/12/13 18:10:41]

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Such is my digust at their decision, but I will be buying wine and pork steaks and queuing at the checkout with the women wearing a headscarf...maybe they don't wish hair in your food ."

Jo I maybe wrong but I don't think they mean head scarfs in a food hygiene way....I can assume that a reference to pork, alcohol and head scarf is that they are making a reference to one particular religion....

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Allegedly M&S have said that Muslim employees can refuse to serve people buying pork and alcohol, asking customers to move to another till although I've only seen reference of it on here and Facebook.

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By *inky Biscuit DunkerMan
over a year ago

Gloucestershire

I think 'allegedly' is the right word

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By *Ryan-Man
over a year ago

In Your Bush

Give it up op. Your constant provocation really is bad form

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

"Allegedly M&S have said that Muslim employees can refuse to serve people buying pork and alcohol, asking customers to move to another till although I've only seen reference of it on here and Facebook. "

I just found an article about it online, the till should be clearly marked then as I would be annoyed if I stood in a queue to get to the front to be told to go queue elsewhere.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If a devout catholic could I refuse to sell condoms

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By *plpxp2Couple
over a year ago

Middlesbrough

and no Christians serving on the Sabbath!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

are you joking.well sorry if it offends,but maybe the muslims shouldnt work in a shop that sells it!

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/muslim-marks-spencer-staff-told-2952827

Interestingly the OP doesn't seem to comment on the fact that they also said they would allow Christians not to work Sundays and would support other religious restrictions.

No, once again it's all focused on the Muslim faith for them.

And the customer wasn't asked to move till, they were asked to wait for another assistant - politely asked.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"and no Christians serving on the Sabbath!"

Do Christians have Sabbath?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"If a devout catholic could I refuse to sell condoms "

If you worked at M&S, quite possibly.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"are you joking.well sorry if it offends,but maybe the muslims shouldnt work in a shop that sells it!"

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

"are you joking.well sorry if it offends,but maybe the muslims shouldnt work in a shop that sells it!

I second that!!

I'm sure there's more than one till in M&S. Just as long as it's clearly marked so people won't queue there what's the problem?

I was 15 working in a newsagent when the lottery started and I wasn't allowed to sell lottery tickets, no one had a problem with that! Oh wait... That's because I'm not a Muslim!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Racism rears its ugly head again, ..This Season of Goodwill Ha Bloody Ha

Gary

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

will the OP also be going in on Sundays or the Sabbath demanding to be served by Christians or Jews?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So long as people get their shopping with the minimum of disruption...which m&s shareholders will expect...and store managers will work to assure, why does it matter?

If things don't go smoothly, either operations will have to change, or people will be moved on.

While there are potential issues, it's not really a story yet...hopefully it won't ever be.

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By *Ryan-Man
over a year ago

In Your Bush

"will the OP also be going in on Sundays or the Sabbath demanding to be served by Christians or Jews?"

Surely you're not expecting them to post again? They will be sat back laughing , whilst everyone else vents outrage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't see the problem myself, if you have pork or alcohol don't go to a till with a muslim serving, then you wont get refused and have to move, some people just make mountains out of mole hills, its just a matter of respect, there will probably be 1 muslim on to ever 10 none Muslims and there's nothing to say the Muslims will refuse to serve you just because they have been said they can don't assume all are that strict they will, it just don't seem a that big deal to me

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

"will the OP also be going in on Sundays or the Sabbath demanding to be served by Christians or Jews?

Surely you're not expecting them to post again? They will be sat back laughing , whilst everyone else vents outrage. "

A quick check of the green arrow and I agree x

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Racism rears its ugly head again, ..This Season of Goodwill Ha Bloody Ha

Gary"

When better to point out the stupidity of religion?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't see the problem myself, if you have pork or alcohol don't go to a till with a muslim serving, then you wont get refused and have to move, some people just make mountains out of mole hills, its just a matter of respect, there will probably be 1 muslim on to ever 10 none Muslims and there's nothing to say the Muslims will refuse to serve you just because they have been said they can don't assume all are that strict they will, it just don't seem a that big deal to me "

What does a Muslim look like? Maybe they should all have a sign round their neck.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"are you joking.well sorry if it offends,but maybe the muslims shouldnt work in a shop that sells it!"

Actually Muslims are doing nothing wrong. It is M&S who have said it is ok for them not to serve customers with alcohol. So any issues you have should be aimed at M&S not muslims. Also, most muslim staff will continue to serve customers buying alcohol as they have been doing. Just because M&S has allowed for this, doesnt mean all Muslims will refuse to serve you.

P.s you are not so swell mell

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"will the OP also be going in on Sundays or the Sabbath demanding to be served by Christians or Jews?

Surely you're not expecting them to post again? They will be sat back laughing , whilst everyone else vents outrage. "

lol true....sucked in again...just cant stand people posting half a story

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Muslim who owns the local corner shop sales alcohol from seven in the morning!

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By *hole Lotta RosieWoman
over a year ago

Deviant City

"will the OP also be going in on Sundays or the Sabbath demanding to be served by Christians or Jews?

Surely you're not expecting them to post again? They will be sat back laughing , whilst everyone else vents outrage.

lol true....sucked in again...just cant stand people posting half a story

anything to cause a reaction. Sad really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What does a Muslim look like? Maybe they should all have a sign round their neck."

there's always one isn't there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If a devout catholic could I refuse to sell condoms "

Should a devout catholic be swinging?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If a devout catholic could I refuse to sell condoms

Should a devout catholic be swinging?

She should be ok as long as she gives a few quid to the church

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"are you joking.well sorry if it offends,but maybe the muslims shouldnt work in a shop that sells it!

P.s you are not so swell mell "

You are quite right. M&S have only said that they will allow it.

However this is the thin end of a very thick wedge.

Only last week we saw Ramjam Chaudery (or whatever his name is) protesting with his gang of dregsacks (German word but I think all will understand it) about local businesses in Tower Hamlets selling alcohol and threatening shop owners with "40 lashes" for breaking Sharia law.

Now we hear good old Marks and Sparks is to allow staff to choose which products they sell on religious grounds. How long before alcohol and pork is banned altogether?

Customers are customers and staff are staff, and if their religion forbids them selling the products of their employer (whether it be pork pies or condoms) then they should find another job.

I am a Marks and Spencer shareholder and will be objecting to this in the strongest possible terms and at the highest level.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If a devout catholic could I refuse to sell condoms "

When did M&S start selling condoms?

To be honest as long as M&S support their employees religious beliefs equally I don't have an issue with it. I would also imagine 99% of their Muslim employees won't bat an eyelash if you buy pork or alcohol, just as 99% of their Jewish employees won't. However for the really devout believers I think it's great that their employer supports their right of choice.

Now as a Jedi I hope I'd be allowed to carry my light sabre & use the force on obnoxious patrons

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"If a devout catholic could I refuse to sell condoms

When did M&S start selling condoms?

Now as a Jedi I hope I'd be allowed to carry my light sabre & use the force on obnoxious patrons

No. Business is business and religion is religion, and they should never be mixed.

Like the light sabre idea though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If a devout catholic could I refuse to sell condoms

When did M&S start selling condoms?

Spot on

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By *ezebelWoman
over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest

No. Business is business and religion is religion, and they should never be mixed.

But shops were closed on Sundays for religious reasons for donkeys year...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now we hear good old Marks and Sparks is to allow staff to choose which products they sell on religious grounds. How long before alcohol and pork is banned altogether?"

I do have an issue with this, the UK is a Christian country and that's never going to change. I'm very proud that we have welcomed so many other religions & that as a country we actively support peoples right to worship who they like without any predjudice.

There are a few Muslims and in the big scheme of things the percentage really is tiny that want Sharia in this country, it's never going to happen & pork products won't ever be banned. This is scaremongering by the Daily Mail in display.

If anyone have anyone 40 lashes (without their full consent, some people like that thing) the authorities would arrest & prosecute them to the full extent of the law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If a devout catholic could I refuse to sell condoms

When did M&S start selling condoms?

Now as a Jedi I hope I'd be allowed to carry my light sabre & use the force on obnoxious patrons

No. Business is business and religion is religion, and they should never be mixed.

Like the light sabre idea though

Most shops have to close on Easter Sunday & Sunday trading regulations are mostly religion based, so the Christian religion stills effects business in a large way.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"are you joking.well sorry if it offends,but maybe the muslims shouldnt work in a shop that sells it!

I second that!!

I'm sure there's more than one till in M&S. Just as long as it's clearly marked so people won't queue there what's the problem?

I was 15 working in a newsagent when the lottery started and I wasn't allowed to sell lottery tickets, no one had a problem with that! Oh wait... That's because I'm not a Muslim! "

NO. That is because British law forbids it. Nowhere in British law does it forbid anyone to sell a packet of bacon or a pork pie.

You may say many of us are Muslim bashing, well guess what? When they stop demanding that we have to change our ways to accommodate them, I will stop Muslim bashing. Until then they are fair game. Whether their apologists on here like it or not.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

[Removed by poster at 22/12/13 19:23:19]

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

how does stating facts of a story make people apologists?

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

Taken from the report of the story in a newspaper ....

“M&S promotes an environment free from discrimination and so, where specific requests are made, we will always make reasonable adjustments to accommodate them, whilst ensuring high levels of customer service.”

The spokesman said that their policy would be applied to other religions, including Christians who did not want to work Sunday's and Jews who choose not to work Saturdays.

No one seems to be bothered about the Christians or the Jews??

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By *antonkid1955Man
over a year ago

cardiff

The checkout staff are employed to serve the customers..this is a Christian country and if the muslim staff have a problem serving us with pork and alcohol then find another job or leave the country and go and work in a country that doesnt eat pork or drink alcohol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"are you joking.well sorry if it offends,but maybe the muslims shouldnt work in a shop that sells it!

I second that!!

I'm sure there's more than one till in M&S. Just as long as it's clearly marked so people won't queue there what's the problem?

I was 15 working in a newsagent when the lottery started and I wasn't allowed to sell lottery tickets, no one had a problem with that! Oh wait... That's because I'm not a Muslim!

NO. That is because British law forbids it. Nowhere in British law does it forbid anyone to sell a packet of bacon or a pork pie.

I demand lots of things, because I live in a country that allows me to demand things. Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Christian and anyone else can demand & campaign for whatever they like, it doesn't mean it's ever going to be law and that's how it should be.

I don't support the campaign for Sharia law in this country however I 100% support the campaigners right to campaign for it.

We are so lucky to live in a wonderful democratic society here in the UK and whilst it isn't perfect we have the freedom and law protected rights here that allow us to express views & demonstrate & campaign against/for to change it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"are you joking.well sorry if it offends,but maybe the muslims shouldnt work in a shop that sells it!

I second that!!

I'm sure there's more than one till in M&S. Just as long as it's clearly marked so people won't queue there what's the problem?

I was 15 working in a newsagent when the lottery started and I wasn't allowed to sell lottery tickets, no one had a problem with that! Oh wait... That's because I'm not a Muslim!

NO. That is because British law forbids it. Nowhere in British law does it forbid anyone to sell a packet of bacon or a pork pie.

I don't support the campaign for Sharia law in this country however I 100% support the campaigners right to campaign for it.

Very well put

Gary

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"The checkout staff are employed to serve the customers..this is a Christian country and if the muslim staff have a problem serving us with pork and alcohol then find another job or leave the country and go and work in a country that doesnt eat pork or drink alcohol."

Same applies to Christians who don't want to work Sundays and Jews who don't want to work Saturdays or sell bacon? Or is that just Muslims?

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By *issHottieBottieWoman
over a year ago

Kent

I'm not a Christian, should I go and live somewhere else?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

What does a Muslim look like? Maybe they should all have a sign round their neck.

there's always one isn't there

Just lately there's been a lot more than one.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Oh for the life of me I have heard it all now....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A profit-driven business decides to be sensitive to the needs of its employees...

It's not expecting business to drop as a result of this decision...

Why should anyone care?

If a Jew requested that he/she not sell anything that wasn't kosher, or a Sikh not want to sell meat or alcohol, and a business was able to accommodate such requests...then more power to them.

The "thin end of the wedge" is now all employees with any personal or religious convictions can make such requests.

Since its not law, the business can decide what to uphold based on impact on the business.

It's a shame that loud mouthed ignorant fools like anjam chowdhury (this years hamza 'hook') are able to impact/scare so many people with their bile, but I guess that's how things have always been and that's how they'll stay..

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Same applies to Christians who don't want to work Sundays and Jews who don't want to work Saturdays or sell bacon? Or is that just Muslims?"

No we will send the Jews back to concentration camps and let the tigers eat the Christians

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does this rule apply to Jewish staff re pork? Or how about selling christmas cards, trees, paper etc for those religions that don't celebrate the season?

Can a catholic refuse to sell meat on a Friday? Or Ash Wednesday? Or Good Friday?

It's political correctness and fear of being used by staff gone mad!!!

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By *am123Man
over a year ago

essex chelmsford

some good points made above, and many that just show why the country is in the mess it is i wont say which

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Does this rule apply to Jewish staff re pork? Or how about selling christmas cards, trees, paper etc for those religions that don't celebrate the season?

Can a catholic refuse to sell meat on a Friday? Or Ash Wednesday? Or Good Friday?

It's political correctness and fear of being used by staff gone mad!!!"

according to the artical M&S wil support any decision based on religious grounds

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Same applies to Christians who don't want to work Sundays and Jews who don't want to work Saturdays or sell bacon? Or is that just Muslims?

No we will send the Jews back to concentration camps and let the tigers eat the Christians "

Phew for a minute there I thought Muslims were being given preferential treatment

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does this rule apply to Jewish staff re pork? Or how about selling christmas cards, trees, paper etc for those religions that don't celebrate the season?

Can a catholic refuse to sell meat on a Friday? Or Ash Wednesday? Or Good Friday?

It's political correctness and fear of being used by staff gone mad!!!

according to the artical M&S wil support any decision based on religious grounds"

Then in that case although insane, fair play to them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does this rule apply to Jewish staff re pork? Or how about selling christmas cards, trees, paper etc for those religions that don't celebrate the season?

Can a catholic refuse to sell meat on a Friday? Or Ash Wednesday? Or Good Friday?

It's political correctness and fear of being used by staff gone mad!!!"

It actually does apply to people of other convictions or beliefs, so long as m&s feel its reasonable and thus not something that will significantly, in their estimation, impact operations.

Otherwise, it would be mad. As it is, not so much.

What's mad is how some people can't fathom someone else's tolerance or level if sensitivity..and get so upset by it.

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By *andm288Couple
over a year ago

oxford

"are you joking.well sorry if it offends,but maybe the muslims shouldnt work in a shop that sells it!

I second that!!

I'm sure there's more than one till in M&S. Just as long as it's clearly marked so people won't queue there what's the problem?

I was 15 working in a newsagent when the lottery started and I wasn't allowed to sell lottery tickets, no one had a problem with that! Oh wait... That's because I'm not a Muslim!

NO. That is because British law forbids it. Nowhere in British law does it forbid anyone to sell a packet of bacon or a pork pie.

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By *andm288Couple
over a year ago

oxford

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah!! And the practising Christians and Jews should go to....oh wait.... D'oh!

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Taken from the report of the story in a newspaper ....

The spokesman said that their policy would be applied to other religions, including Christians who did not want to work Sunday's and Jews who choose not to work Saturdays.

No one seems to be bothered about the Christians or the Jews?? "

Actually I am.

Religion has no place in the work place. No matter whether it is Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, or any other ancient fairy story. I don't often agree with Marx, but he was dead right when he called religion "The opium of the masses".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does this rule apply to Jewish staff re pork? Or how about selling christmas cards, trees, paper etc for those religions that don't celebrate the season?

Can a catholic refuse to sell meat on a Friday? Or Ash Wednesday? Or Good Friday?

It's political correctness and fear of being used by staff gone mad!!!

according to the artical M&S wil support any decision based on religious grounds"

Hmmmm. If I don't like or agree with something I don't put myself in that situation. Like for example, you might have seen me bitch and moan about page 3 and adult imagery in high street stores/ supermarkets. So I would never put myself in a situation where I would have to sell such things. I would deem myself a hypocrite. Likewise I'd never work in weather spoons or any other place serving up beer to people for breakfast. You get the idea. If you don't like something stay away. Do not try and enforce your views and beliefs on the majority.

Or if you are that strong about your opinion, lobby through your MP to get laws change and let the majority decide the outcome.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Taken from the report of the story in a newspaper ....

The spokesman said that their policy would be applied to other religions, including Christians who did not want to work Sunday's and Jews who choose not to work Saturdays.

No one seems to be bothered about the Christians or the Jews??

Actually I am.

Phew, cos for a moment it felt as though it was Muslim bashing, not religion bashing... Or bashing a company that is (exercising its freedom to be) more tolerant than you feel they should be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"are you joking.well sorry if it offends,but maybe the muslims shouldnt work in a shop that sells it!

P.s you are not so swell mell "

did i say the muslims were doing anything wrong?

why single me out,did you not realise many people would have a similar view.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Actually I am.

so where do you draw that line....

for example.. should Christians not allowed to wear jewelry with a cross on it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Taken from the report of the story in a newspaper ....

The spokesman said that their policy would be applied to other religions, including Christians who did not want to work Sunday's and Jews who choose not to work Saturdays.

No one seems to be bothered about the Christians or the Jews??

Actually I am.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

It's up to marks and Spencer's who in my eyes have always been a traditional yet open minded company....marks and Spencer's are one of the companies that openly employ ex offenders and have done great work around that...I'm sure they have sought legal advice regarding this and have spent time looking at it and taking on board comments and feedback from staff as I can only presume that they have consulted staff regarding this...we as a country are diverse and I think it's great that we are diverse...will this stop me from shopping there...I doubt it very much...

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By *eepsouthCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"Such is my digust at their decision, but I will be buying wine and pork steaks and queuing at the checkout with the women wearing a headscarf..."

More disgust at how every supermarket and restaurants serve Halal meat without us knowing, I should have every right to eat british slathered meat in the Christian way not the Muslim. I love animals and care a lot about how they are treated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Actually I am.

so where do you draw that line....

for example.. should Christians not allowed to wear jewelry with a cross on it?

Only in a Muslim (to name but one) country, if they requested it...

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By *eepsouthCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I just found an article about it online, the till should be clearly marked then as I would be annoyed if I stood in a queue to get to the front to be told to go queue elsewhere.

Same as food should be marked weather it's halal or not NO RULES ABOUT THAT

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Such is my digust at their decision, but I will be buying wine and pork steaks and queuing at the checkout with the women wearing a headscarf...

This is not a cut and dried issue, even in the Muslim community. Nandos for example serve halal chickens, that are stunned first. Some Muslims won't eat from there... Loads do. Some Muslims eat from Maccies etc, as according to them, since it's a Christian country, it's perfectly acceptable.

Not all halal meat is non-stunned.

Plus, generally the halal meat section at supermarkets is quite clearly labelled, and I agree, restaurants should be clear about whether the meat is halal and stunned or not... Consumers ought to have that right.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Come on. Let's get it right.

A few old stories about a couple living in a nice garden with their kit off playing with snakes, then one of their kids topping his brother because he contested the will, followed by another kid covering his arm with fur to fool his father into giving him the family farm. Some geezer who lived in an inland city being swallowed by a whale

Then on top of all that another bloke managed to build a f*kin big boat out of wood in an area where there are very few trees and march a pair of every living thing on the planet on board before it started pissing down

Some other pillock thought that by building a 50 foot tower he thought he could talk to god (whoever the f*ck he is) then everyone came running down talking a different language.

After all that a bronze age version of Yasser Arrafat turned up in Jerusalem telling everyone he is the son of god (whoever the f*ck he is) managed to totally piss the Romans off, so they nailed his arse to a cross.

Five or six hundred years later, some geezer in the dessert got pissed off because his Mrs was f*cking someone else. He had heard of this Jesus bloke and thought WOW. I can f*ck off into the mountains for a month or two, come back with a dodgy story about god (whoever the f*ck he is) and all the muppets will think I'm the great prophet.

And herE we are in the 21st century and millions (nay billions) BELIEVE THIS SHIT.

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By *am123Man
over a year ago

essex chelmsford

"Come on. Let's get it right.

Some other pillock thought that by building a 50 foot tower he thought he could talk to god (whoever the f*ck he is) then everyone came running down talking a different language.

And herE we are in the 21st century and millions (nay billions) BELIEVE THIS SHIT."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Give it up op. Your constant provocation really is bad form

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who cares fuck em and buy it elsewhere.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Who cares fuck em and buy it elsewhere. "

well I suppose that is true. If you really have a problem with this stop going to Marks and Spencers, write to them and tell them why instead of telling all of us how disgusting it is and doing nothing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Come on. Let's get it right.

Some other pillock thought that by building a 50 foot tower he thought he could talk to god (whoever the f*ck he is) then everyone came running down talking a different language.

And herE we are in the 21st century and millions (nay billions) BELIEVE THIS SHIT."

Yep.... Kinda understandable when you put it like that though... These stories and others have survived millennia, with subtle adaptations as time has gone on and superpowers have changed and perhaps modified them to suit their needs.

Science, and particularly atheism has had a relatively young history...especially amongst the people who have the most influence on a society. Thus the challenge to religion is very new in the big picture. As a race, we're creatures of habit, and don't do change easily.

Be patient, if we are rational beings, people will reach your level of enlightenment, eventually.

In the meantime...things will go on as they always have, war, death, famine, natural disasters, and severe brow beatings on fabswinger threads.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Come the Revolution Brothers and Sisters all Freedom of Choice will be Banned, Its for your own Good

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Such is my digust at their decision, but I will be buying wine and pork steaks and queuing at the checkout with the women wearing a headscarf..."

Depends what's underneath... And I don't mean Swansea...

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By *icked weaselCouple
over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

we have a Muslim friend.. he loves a bacon roll..

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By *icked weaselCouple
over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

"we have a Muslim friend.. he loves a bacon roll..

and he likes to share our vodka!!! such a devout muslim that he is..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Give it up op. Your constant provocation really is bad form

^^^^ the green arrow comes in handy sometimes!!

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

go and shop in waitrose

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think if your religion prevents you carrying out the duties a job requires, you shouldn't do that job. Likewise if that proves to be the case an employer should have the right to dismiss you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think if your religion prevents you carrying out the duties a job requires, you shouldn't do that job. Likewise if that proves to be the case an employer should have the right to dismiss you.

And if an employer exercises the right to accommodate some beliefs of its employees so long as it feels they are reasonable.....and not likely to cause any major disruption to daily operations?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think if your religion prevents you carrying out the duties a job requires, you shouldn't do that job. Likewise if that proves to be the case an employer should have the right to dismiss you.

And if an employer exercises the right to accommodate some beliefs of its employees so long as it feels they are reasonable.....and not likely to cause any major disruption to daily operations?"

Don't you think this would be disruptive ? Apologies I haven't read all the thread to be honest so I don't known how m&s are proposing to administer this. Is it

A. Muslim at checkout chastises person buying something they don't agree with.

B. m&s put new signs at tills saying "Muslim serving here"

it doesn't sit well with me either way

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think if your religion prevents you carrying out the duties a job requires, you shouldn't do that job. Likewise if that proves to be the case an employer should have the right to dismiss you.

And if an employer exercises the right to accommodate some beliefs of its employees so long as it feels they are reasonable.....and not likely to cause any major disruption to daily operations?"

Then what's the problem?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I can understand maybe that the meat might not want to be handled, but why a sealed bottle of plonk?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

[Removed by poster at 22/12/13 21:28:26]

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

To the people this applies to.....attack the post by all means, but if you want to attack the poster do it in private.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think if your religion prevents you carrying out the duties a job requires, you shouldn't do that job. Likewise if that proves to be the case an employer should have the right to dismiss you.

And if an employer exercises the right to accommodate some beliefs of its employees so long as it feels they are reasonable.....and not likely to cause any major disruption to daily operations?

Don't you think this would be disruptive ? Apologies I haven't read all the thread to be honest so I don't known how m&s are proposing to administer this. Is it

A. Muslim at checkout chastises person buying something they don't agree with.

B. m&s put new signs at tills saying "Muslim serving here"

it doesn't sit well with me either way "

Since the weren't under any pressure to do this, or so it seems, the management feel it is workable... Just as they feel designing rotas to take into account the sabbath etc won't be a problem either.

If it doesn't work out we'll soon hear about it on these forums, I'm sure.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"To the people this applies to.....attack the post by all means, but if you want to attack the poster do it in private."

fair point and accept that attacking the individual was wrong..

but the racism that some on here spout at times is sickening..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I can understand maybe that the meat might not want to be handled, but why a sealed bottle of plonk?

Good question. It's the selling of the alcohol...it's equated to selling drugs etc, not that it's 'unclean'. Though as some posters have mentioned, some Muslims have no problem with selling or drinking alcohol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/12/13 21:31:38]

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"I think if your religion prevents you carrying out the duties a job requires, you shouldn't do that job. Likewise if that proves to be the case an employer should have the right to dismiss you.

And if an employer exercises the right to accommodate some beliefs of its employees so long as it feels they are reasonable.....and not likely to cause any major disruption to daily operations?

Don't you think this would be disruptive ? Apologies I haven't read all the thread to be honest so I don't known how m&s are proposing to administer this. Is it

A. Muslim at checkout chastises person buying something they don't agree with.

B. m&s put new signs at tills saying "Muslim serving here"

it doesn't sit well with me either way "

it never said that they chastised someone for buying it,just that they asked them to wait for another cashier to serve them.

I would have no problem waiting for another cashier however if i felt they were chastising me then i would raise a complaint. people have the riht to exercise what ever religion they want but they do not have the right to force their beliefs on me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To the people this applies to.....attack the post by all means, but if you want to attack the poster do it in private.

fair point and accept that attacking the individual was wrong..

but the racism that some on here spout at times is sickening..

As is the intolerance of other peoples views

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think if your religion prevents you carrying out the duties a job requires, you shouldn't do that job. Likewise if that proves to be the case an employer should have the right to dismiss you.

And if an employer exercises the right to accommodate some beliefs of its employees so long as it feels they are reasonable.....and not likely to cause any major disruption to daily operations?

Don't you think this would be disruptive ? Apologies I haven't read all the thread to be honest so I don't known how m&s are proposing to administer this. Is it

A. Muslim at checkout chastises person buying something they don't agree with.

B. m&s put new signs at tills saying "Muslim serving here"

it doesn't sit well with me either way

it never said that they chastised someone for buying it,just that they asked them to wait for another cashier to serve them.

But how do people know m&s have this policy. Do they have a sign up at tills or do they just let people wait to get served and risk pissing their customers off?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"To the people this applies to.....attack the post by all means, but if you want to attack the poster do it in private.

fair point and accept that attacking the individual was wrong..

but the racism that some on here spout at times is sickening..

As is the intolerance of other peoples views

proud to be totally intolerant of bigotry and discrimination..

how tolerant should we be of the most vile and disgusting views that a minority in society deem normal..?

paedophiles etc..?

you tolerant of their views..?

i'm not..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd find it irritating to have to wait for another cashier, but only in the way it is when an underage one has to wait for somebody to authorise an alcohol sale - irritating but not a big deal. Perhaps more irritating if most of the staff are Muslim though.

If it proves not to bother anyone I don't see the issue. If however it prevents people from doing a job I think they should do something different.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"I think if your religion prevents you carrying out the duties a job requires, you shouldn't do that job. Likewise if that proves to be the case an employer should have the right to dismiss you.

And if an employer exercises the right to accommodate some beliefs of its employees so long as it feels they are reasonable.....and not likely to cause any major disruption to daily operations?

Don't you think this would be disruptive ? Apologies I haven't read all the thread to be honest so I don't known how m&s are proposing to administer this. Is it

A. Muslim at checkout chastises person buying something they don't agree with.

B. m&s put new signs at tills saying "Muslim serving here"

it doesn't sit well with me either way

it never said that they chastised someone for buying it,just that they asked them to wait for another cashier to serve them.

But how do people know m&s have this policy. Do they have a sign up at tills or do they just let people wait to get served and risk pissing their customers off?"

someone experiences a cashier asking them to wait for another as they couldnt serve them due to the products they were buying and so called the papers who then got a statement from the company

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By *ach3Man
over a year ago

Watford

I just found an article about it online, the till should be clearly marked then as I would be annoyed if I stood in a queue to get to the front to be told to go queue elsewhere. "

Totally agree, an employee of a company is representing that company. There personal preferences / views / ethics should stay outside the store. I personally am.notinterested in the sex, religious beliefs or views of a cashier - no wonder companies are adopting self service which in effect is one more person on the dole!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/12/13 21:47:24]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To the people this applies to.....attack the post by all means, but if you want to attack the poster do it in private.

fair point and accept that attacking the individual was wrong..

but the racism that some on here spout at times is sickening..

As is the intolerance of other

proud to be totally intolerant of bigotry and discrimination..

how tolerant should we be of the most vile and disgusting views that a minority in society deem normal..?

paedophiles etc..?

you tolerant of their views..?

i'm not.. "

Try keeping things in context !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it becomes a persistent problem, the policy will change, as it should, as a business has every right to run the way it chooses it, and we'll have to find other things to moan about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If it becomes a persistent problem, the policy will change, as it should, as a business has every right to run the way it chooses it, and we'll have to find other things to moan about."

As customers have the right to make their feelings known to any business by shopping elsewhere

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think if your religion prevents you carrying out the duties a job requires, you shouldn't do that job. Likewise if that proves to be the case an employer should have the right to dismiss you.

And if an employer exercises the right to accommodate some beliefs of its employees so long as it feels they are reasonable.....and not likely to cause any major disruption to daily operations?

Don't you think this would be disruptive ? Apologies I haven't read all the thread to be honest so I don't known how m&s are proposing to administer this. Is it

A. Muslim at checkout chastises person buying something they don't agree with.

B. m&s put new signs at tills saying "Muslim serving here"

it doesn't sit well with me either way

it never said that they chastised someone for buying it,just that they asked them to wait for another cashier to serve them.

But how do people know m&s have this policy. Do they have a sign up at tills or do they just let people wait to get served and risk pissing their customers off?

someone experiences a cashier asking them to wait for another as they couldnt serve them due to the products they were buying and so called the papers who then got a statement from the company"

Oh. I think this is chip shop paper news then. An isolated incidence that a large corporate have been frightened to reply anything to the contrary.

Still an interesting thread though. I'm thinking of going for a job in an old people's home. Ps I hate all old people. Is that okay

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By *reelove1969Couple
over a year ago

bristol

would it not be easier to transfer such employees to more appropriate departments where contact with these goods would not be a daily occurance ?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"To the people this applies to.....attack the post by all means, but if you want to attack the poster do it in private.

fair point and accept that attacking the individual was wrong..

but the racism that some on here spout at times is sickening..

As is the intolerance of other

proud to be totally intolerant of bigotry and discrimination..

how tolerant should we be of the most vile and disgusting views that a minority in society deem normal..?

paedophiles etc..?

you tolerant of their views..?

i'm not..

Try keeping things in context !"

perhaps address the question which yes i will accept does stretch things however for some racism is something we should be intolerant of..

would you agree.?

bet you dont answer that one either..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"would it not be easier to transfer such employees to more appropriate departments where contact with these goods would not be a daily occurance ?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"would it not be easier to transfer such employees to more appropriate departments where contact with these goods would not be a daily occurance ?"

They probably do. Goodness knows how old this policy is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If it becomes a persistent problem, the policy will change, as it should, as a business has every right to run the way it chooses it, and we'll have to find other things to moan about.

As customers have the right to make their feelings known to any business by shopping elsewhere "

Yup, if the policy causes disruption and ruins your shopping experience, waitrose will appreciate your custom, no doubt.

Churches on Sundays may be slightly better off too... Everybody happy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rightly or wrongly, Marks & Spencers jumps on the political correctness bandwagon and decides to accommodate the religious needs of 'ALL' of its staff. This means that Jewish staff can potentially avoid working Saturdays, Muslims can not have to sell pork or alcohol products and Christians could potentially avoid working Sundays.

From this news story, certain media and a minority of posters on here feel Muslims should not be allowed to do such a thing or they should leave their job or even the country!

First of all, how many Muslims do you think have actually asked management they don't want to sell pork or alcohol? I would be surprised that if for every 1000 Muslim employees, even one has made such a request at M&S.

Over the last decade or so, I have shopped at M&S more and more and regularly purchase alcohol and pork products from their proper supermarkets and also many train station and petrol station branches. Many Muslims (going by the name badge or appearance) have served me and nobody has appeared to have a problem with my purchases.

This company policy does not seem to have been developed due to Shariah Council pressure or an Imam and applies to all faiths m. Quit the Muslim bashing and generalisation.

Has anybody actually been refused the purchase of bacon by a Muslim appearing member of staff by a supermarket employee? If yes, I'm sure it is the very minute percentage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Reading this thread has made me really very sad

. Also quite fearful for the future, I am just wondering how long it will be until open minded people

say no muslims should work in a Christian country. I thought being a christian meant not judging people without looking to yourself first.

There's a great song about human rights out at moment that explains far better than I could

" no freedom till we're equal damn right I support it "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To the people this applies to.....attack the post by all means, but if you want to attack the poster do it in private.

fair point and accept that attacking the individual was wrong..

but the racism that some on here spout at times is sickening..

As is the intolerance of other

proud to be totally intolerant of bigotry and discrimination..

how tolerant should we be of the most vile and disgusting views that a minority in society deem normal..?

paedophiles etc..?

you tolerant of their views..?

i'm not..

Try keeping things in context !

perhaps address the question which yes i will accept does stretch things however for some racism is something we should be intolerant of..

would you agree.?

bet you dont answer that one either.."

Pedophilia is against the law so I don't see the relevance

I treat all people I meet with the same respect I expect from others

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By *r OreoMan
over a year ago

Croydon

So story is:

Jewish company says it will respect peoples religions if that person asks.

Story becomes 'muslims allowed to not handle pork or alcohol'

Selective reading is a wonderful thing!

Before people start jumping up and down and banning and demanding action cos they hold 100 shares ..... maybe some perspective is needed as to % of employees who actually want to be given an exemption.

And maybe a little credit to M&S who as a multi-billion £ retailer might know what its doing and maybe will put those who do not want to handle pork/alcohol in other sections of the store.

Some people truly are simple minded this thread has proved (whilsty others are amazing human beings!!)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I love how some people pick and choose when their christian.

On a swingers site so obviously not that bothered about the christian teachings......until a non story about Muslims (well actually about all people of faith but dont let that get in the way of abit of muslim bashing) then suddenly people get all holier than thou "This is a christian country!" pfft don't make me laugh!!! Hypocrisy at it's finest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/12/13 23:13:14]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does remind me of the Christian B&B owners that kicked out a gay couple. That didn't go so well.

People's beliefs should absolutely be respected (in reason), but if your set of beliefs conflicts with your employment, the issue is yours - not your employers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I love how some people pick and choose when their christian.

That's quite arrogant however - to assume how people can choose to practise their beliefs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I love how some people pick and choose when their christian.

That's quite arrogant however - to assume how people can choose to practise their beliefs. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I love how some people pick and choose when their christian.

That's quite arrogant however - to assume how people can choose to practise their beliefs. "

Call it arrogant if you like, people can choose to practice their beliefs how they see fit, im not telling then how to live there life but it doesnt stoo me from observing how hypocritical some are.

One rule for one another rule for another. Certain people don't seem to be bothered about christianity until something like this crops up and suddenly it's a christian country etc etc yet they didnt seem too bothered about Christianity and it's teachings before.

The way I see it M&S are being accomadating to all of it's employees of every faith. Don't see what all the fuss is about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If a devout catholic could I refuse to sell condoms "

No, but you should take 'safe sex' of you profile

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Call it arrogant if you like"

I did, and it was. Your last comment is quite at odds with your first statement that effectively condemned any that are Christian but choose to be on this site.

I agree however that there are those that are Christian only when it suits their argument, but then there are also plenty who are just confused/uncertain - regardless it's a personal matter and should be kept that way. Not for employers to have to pander to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I love how some people pick and choose when their christian.

That's quite arrogant however - to assume how people can choose to practise their beliefs.

Call it arrogant if you like, people can choose to practice their beliefs how they see fit, im not telling then how to live there life but it doesnt stoo me from observing how hypocritical some are.

The way I see it M&S are being accomadating to all of it's employees of every faith. Don't see what all the fuss is about."

Because it inconveniences their customers ?

M&S sell "x" products. As a consumer I expect I can purchase everything they have as i am legally above age to do so. What happens if I go to a store where every checkout has an employee with a reason "not" to sell me the produce they are offering.

I think M&S need to re-evaluate. If selling some products is so offensive to some people, take them off the shelves, openly publicise this and let shoppers go else where.

We live in a democracy, yet this is frequently being challenged. Majority rule and people will vote with their feet if more cases of this are cited.

I have spent my entire working life ( 23 years) very much in a minority, so I do know a little about this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Call it arrogant if you like

I did, and it was. Your last comment is quite at odds with your first statement that effectively condemned any that are Christian but choose to be on this site.

Well maybe you read it wrong or I didnt word it properly, im noy saying if your christian you shouldn't be on this site, if you are any religion do what you like I don't care, im talkong about people who pick and choose when they are religious only for the sole purpose of condemning others.

Im not fussed as to whether companies choose to make adjustments for their staff either as long as it doesnt impact on the customers I don't see the problem and to be honest im sure the religious folk when they applied so said jobs knew what the job entailed and were fine with it so I don't see them suddenly changing their minds, just isolated cases.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh - well I agree then, I think..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I love how some people pick and choose when their christian.

That's quite arrogant however - to assume how people can choose to practise their beliefs.

Call it arrogant if you like, people can choose to practice their beliefs how they see fit, im not telling then how to live there life but it doesnt stoo me from observing how hypocritical some are.

The way I see it M&S are being accomadating to all of it's employees of every faith. Don't see what all the fuss is about.

Because it inconveniences their customers ?

I think M&S need to re-evaluate. If selling some products is so offensive to some people, take them off the shelves, openly publicise this and let shoppers go else where.

We live in a democracy, yet this is frequently being challenged. Majority rule and people will vote with their feet if more cases of this are cited.

I have spent my entire working life ( 23 years) very much in a minority, so I do know a little about this. "

Do you not think that management who organise the rota's and have notes on which members of staff won't do what etc would organise a shift to take into consideration all of this? They are hardly gonna put a shift on where no one will sell alcohol, they will obviously arrange it so there is no disruption to service and they must think they arr able to do this else they wouldn't of introduced it in the first place.

Yes we do live in a democracy I dont see this is affecting your democratic right though?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oh - well I agree then, I think..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I love how some people pick and choose when their christian.

That's quite arrogant however - to assume how people can choose to practise their beliefs.

Call it arrogant if you like, people can choose to practice their beliefs how they see fit, im not telling then how to live there life but it doesnt stoo me from observing how hypocritical some are.

The way I see it M&S are being accomadating to all of it's employees of every faith. Don't see what all the fuss is about.

Because it inconveniences their customers ?

I think M&S need to re-evaluate. If selling some products is so offensive to some people, take them off the shelves, openly publicise this and let shoppers go else where.

We live in a democracy, yet this is frequently being challenged. Majority rule and people will vote with their feet if more cases of this are cited.

I have spent my entire working life ( 23 years) very much in a minority, so I do know a little about this.

Yes we do live in a democracy I dont see this is affecting your democratic right though?"

Correct because I note like you, we also live in an area that is majority white Christian. Think of the peoplein other urban areas ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I love how some people pick and choose when their christian.

That's quite arrogant however - to assume how people can choose to practise their beliefs.

Call it arrogant if you like, people can choose to practice their beliefs how they see fit, im not telling then how to live there life but it doesnt stoo me from observing how hypocritical some are.

The way I see it M&S are being accomadating to all of it's employees of every faith. Don't see what all the fuss is about.

Because it inconveniences their customers ?

I think M&S need to re-evaluate. If selling some products is so offensive to some people, take them off the shelves, openly publicise this and let shoppers go else where.

We live in a democracy, yet this is frequently being challenged. Majority rule and people will vote with their feet if more cases of this are cited.

I have spent my entire working life ( 23 years) very much in a minority, so I do know a little about this.

Yes we do live in a democracy I dont see this is affecting your democratic right though?

Correct because I note like you, we also live in an area that is majority white Christian. Think of the peoplein other urban areas ?"

I see what your saying but don't you think M&S really researched this and those possibilities beforehand? Until it springs up as a real problem then I really don't see what the fuss is a about. If it becomes a problem and M&S start loosing money your damn right they will soon change there minds, obviously so far it hasn't been a problem for them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I gave up quite early on in this thread. Did I miss anything other than ill-informed bigoted ranting from the usual suspects who don't let the facts get in the way of their own prejudices?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I gave up quite early on in this thread. Did I miss anything other than ill-informed bigoted ranting from the usual suspects who don't let the facts get in the way of their own prejudices?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I gave up quite early on in this thread. Did I miss anything other than ill-informed bigoted ranting from the usual suspects who don't let the facts get in the way of their own prejudices?"

You mean people jumping to an opinion based only on ignorance? A little like saying I can't be arsed to read what people have written but I'll make a judgement it was all shit?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/12/13 01:06:45]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I gave up quite early on in this thread. Did I miss anything other than ill-informed bigoted ranting from the usual suspects who don't let the facts get in the way of their own prejudices?

You mean people jumping to an opinion based only on ignorance? A little like saying I can't be arsed to read what people have written but I'll make a judgement it was all shit?

Or jumping to an opinion based on people's past performances...

Coincidental or not, crystals assessment wasnt too far off really.

Call me ignorant, but I suspect the benefits cap will be much the same.

In the meantime, I'll wait for m&s shares to nosedive

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really don't see the problem, I have worked with many teams that had various restrictions e.g. Kids in school means they have to be home by x time, no driving license meAns they need to go with a driver to sites, or the job has to be viable by public transport. I am damned sure that a national retail company can find a job that doesn't clash with any strongly held beliefs of its staff. Don't sell many pork products in the clothing department, so no problem or any one of the thousands of other tasks in running the store thAt work with the staff to make an overall happy team.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Has anyone read the bbc news site yet rather that Daily Fail and the Telegraph? Turns out M&S has no such policy. They simply believe that everyone (employees and customers) be treated fairly.

The policy was made up by the telegraph and the daily mail latched on to it like it does for all the anti-islam people out there.

Let's do our research before posting, shall we OP.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For the op.. did the christians not protest outside a certain club here in ireland a few years ago and have it closed down.. doing quite a few christian girls out of work.. yet u sit back and slag of muslims.. well well its ok for one crowd to uproar for their beliefs but not another.. how very racist u are.. make no wonder there is so much learnt hate in this world

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I gave up quite early on in this thread. Did I miss anything other than ill-informed bigoted ranting from the usual suspects who don't let the facts get in the way of their own prejudices?

You mean people jumping to an opinion based only on ignorance? A little like saying I can't be arsed to read what people have written but I'll make a judgement it was all shit?

Or jumping to an opinion based on people's past performances...

Coincidental or not, crystals assessment wasnt too far off really.

Call me ignorant, but I suspect the benefits cap will be much the same.

In the meantime, I'll wait for m&s shares to nosedive

They're calling themselves ignorant if they can't be bothered to read before passing judgement on what's been said.

Although I'll admit to being impressed that anybody pays sufficient attention to anybody else to know what they'll say. But I don't ever see the point of the people that jump into a discussion with nothing to offer other than 'not this again', or 'I'm bored', or in this case what was actually just a poorly disguised way of seeking to offend. Just how hard is it to resist passing comment on something you're supposedly not interested in?

M&S isn't in great health anyway. This seems a bizarre thing to have publicised.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For the op.. did the christians not protest outside a certain club here in ireland a few years ago and have it closed down.. doing quite a few christian girls out of work.. yet u sit back and slag of muslims.. well well its ok for one crowd to uproar for their beliefs but not another.. how very racist u are.. make no wonder there is so much learnt hate in this world"

Er what?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has anyone read the bbc news site yet rather that Daily Fail and the Telegraph? Turns out M&S has no such policy. They simply believe that everyone (employees and customers) be treated fairly.

The policy was made up by the telegraph and the daily mail latched on to it like it does for all the anti-islam people out there.

Let's do our research before posting, shall we OP. "

hm or maybe the PR dept has been working the weekend to try and salvage something out of the mess created by the Telegraph article.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has anyone read the bbc news site yet rather that Daily Fail and the Telegraph? Turns out M&S has no such policy. They simply believe that everyone (employees and customers) be treated fairly.

The policy was made up by the telegraph and the daily mail latched on to it like it does for all the anti-islam people out there.

Let's do our research before posting, shall we OP.

hm or maybe the PR dept has been working the weekend to try and salvage something out of the mess created by the Telegraph article."

Yup, maybe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Will you make all the muslims wear a little badge so people can tell they're Muslim?

perhaps a bright yellow crescent moon?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Has anyone read the bbc news site yet rather that Daily Fail and the Telegraph? Turns out M&S has no such policy. They simply believe that everyone (employees and customers) be treated fairly.

The policy was made up by the telegraph and the daily mail latched on to it like it does for all the anti-islam people out there.

Let's do our research before posting, shall we OP.

hm or maybe the PR dept has been working the weekend to try and salvage something out of the mess created by the Telegraph article."

I doubt there's much of a 'mess' anyone who managed to read through the whole article would have read they mention Christians and Jews in there. Guess what? Jews can't eat pork either and IF M&S had the policy the article refers to then the Jewish employees could also say no to handling pork. But of course because the headline has 'muslim' in it the people with a dislike of Muslims have come out full force... but that's only a minority of people in this country. .. so no massive mess... just people who don't research much have been given an excuse to vent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just to play devils advocate, I wonder how many veggies just get on with their jobs and just scan meat?

Has the daily fail ran its 'Xmas decorations BANNED in [insert town/city' story this year?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"are you joking.well sorry if it offends,but maybe the muslims shouldnt work in a shop that sells it!

P.s you are not so swell mell "

I agree as shop in Asda and the young lady there has served me my full shop and not asked me to move because I have pork in my basket

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I gave up quite early on in this thread. Did I miss anything other than ill-informed bigoted ranting from the usual suspects who don't let the facts get in the way of their own prejudices?

You mean people jumping to an opinion based only on ignorance? A little like saying I can't be arsed to read what people have written but I'll make a judgement it was all shit?

To be honest I'd read about this on sources slightly less politically biased than the Daily Mail who 80 years on from their glory days of openly supporting fascism are just as hateful and rightwing as they ever were Or the almost as unpleasant Telegraph. So I'm actually a little confused by the fuss as it's a non story. Large retail chain doea it's best to accommodate employees' needs, slips up and apologises. Big deal. But inevitably it is turned in to something far more by people who want to scare us in to hating with their lies.

As for calling me judgemental or ignorant I'm 42, I first marched againstvtge NF in my teens. 25 years I've been opposing the right and im incredibly proud of it. Click on the green arrow. I challenge people's prejudices regularly on here. I've been posting on these forums for years and sadly know exactly how threads like this will go. So forgive my flippancy last night. It was late and I was on my way home. But don't call me ignorant becauae for once I didn't challenge the lies and hatred of the far right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"However this is the thin end of a very thick wedge

Now we hear good old Marks and Sparks is to allow staff to choose which products they sell on religious grounds. How long before alcohol and pork is banned altogether?

Is the answer to this one around the same time Mohamed becomes the most popular name in Europe and we all live under Sharia law?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All well n good pandering to political correctness n multicultual bs,this is not an islamic country,fit in with Britain,or go somwhere else,err foxtrot oscar!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am a Marks and Spencer shareholder and will be objecting to this in the strongest possible terms and at the highest level."

Complain about what exactly? That you feel that M&S shouldn't respect their employees religious and cultural needs?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All well n good pandering to political correctness n multicultual bs,this is not an islamic country,fit in with Britain,or go somwhere else,err foxtrot oscar!"

Sounds a bit like Sharia Law

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am a Marks and Spencer shareholder and will be objecting to this in the strongest possible terms and at the highest level.

Complain about what exactly? That you feel that M&S shouldn't respect their employees religious and cultural needs?"

I doubt very much if Mohammed knew to much about vacuum packed bacon

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It reminds me of a song....."Onward, Christian Soldiers"

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I've checked out the OP's green arrow....

A storm in a teacup stirred by a huge spoon

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've checked out the OP's green arrow....

A storm in a teacup stirred by a huge spoon

Uh oh not the little green arrow again. Da da daaaaahhhhhh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Half the time when i go into supermarkets or shops there is a sign saying cash only or card only. Normally its the wrong one for me. So i wait till the next till that can serve me is free.

I dont see it as being any different to that,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am a Marks and Spencer shareholder and will be objecting to this in the strongest possible terms and at the highest level.

Complain about what exactly? That you feel that M&S shouldn't respect their employees religious and cultural needs?

I doubt very much if Mohammed knew to much about vacuum packed bacon

Nor much about Carling...your point being? Jesus and Moses, the same....

Amazing how prejudices can wriggle into any topic.. *sigh

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By *RYBBWCouple
over a year ago

Leeds.

[Removed by poster at 23/12/13 09:42:29]

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By *RYBBWCouple
over a year ago

Leeds.

"Racism rears its ugly head again, ..This Season of Goodwill Ha Bloody Ha

Gary"

Muslim is not a race.

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By *RYBBWCouple
over a year ago

Leeds.

"Taken from the report of the story in a newspaper ....

“M&S promotes an environment free from discrimination"

Isn't refusing to serve a customer simply because of their lifestyle choices discrimination ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I bet it wasn't M&S rule from the very start, some muslim person somewhere in the UK has refused to serve these items. If they won't do the duty they have been employed to do, and have agreed to do, then they shouldn't work there.

This makes me so angry and P'ed off in the uk the religion we follow is C of E and catholic mainly, when we go over to other countries we have to follow they rules and region so surely they should do the same in the UK. Or is it the EU going crazy once again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Racism rears its ugly head again, ..This Season of Goodwill Ha Bloody Ha

Gary

Muslim is not a race."

Shall we call it Islamaphobia then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no more like UKaphobia. people can do or say what they like about us and they aren't Racists yet we say something and we are racist

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By *RYBBWCouple
over a year ago

Leeds.

"Racism rears its ugly head again, ..This Season of Goodwill Ha Bloody Ha

Gary

Muslim is not a race.

Shall we call it Islamaphobia then? "

I stated a fact. You are being argumentative.

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By *RYBBWCouple
over a year ago

Leeds.

"no more like UKaphobia. people can do or say what they like about us and they aren't Racists yet we say something and we are racist"

Just like the video of the Muslim march in Preston, where Muslims are carrying banners telling white people to get out of their country. The police did nothing and arrested nobody.

How many arrests would their be if it was a march carrying banners telling Muslims to get out ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I bet it wasn't M&S rule from the very start,

the uk the religion we follow is C of E and catholic mainly, "

1st sentence, No it wasn't the rule of M&S goes something like, "where possible ALL religious beliefs will be respected by the company and effort made not to put staff in a position where they have to break those beliefs". the Rule re-written by the right wing press in the attempt to drum up hatred and violence is Muslims don't have to serve you pork or alcohol.

2nd sentence, is probably not true I am pretty sure that far less than 50% of the country attend either of those two churches every Sunday. Agnostic is probably the majority religion in this country, plus of course there are a hell of a lot of Agnostic Muslims, Jews, as well as Christians

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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in North Norfolk

"no more like UKaphobia. people can do or say what they like about us and they aren't Racists yet we say something and we are racist

Just like the video of the Muslim march in Preston, where Muslims are carrying banners telling white people to get out of their country. The police did nothing and arrested nobody.

How many arrests would their be if it was a march carrying banners telling Muslims to get out ?"

I agree that charges for inciting racial hatred, or whatever they are calling it these days, should work both ways.

I also think there is too much Muslim bashing on here and in society in general. Radical Muslims are a small subset and many Muslims want to integrate and contribute to society. Individuals should be judged by their actions, not their religion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I bet it wasn't M&S rule from the very start, some muslim person somewhere in the UK has refused to serve these items. If they won't do the duty they have been employed to do, and have agreed to do, then they shouldn't work there.

Yes it's the fault of the Muslims that M&S have an equality at work that applies to all beliefs

The Muslamic ray gun really is ruining this great Island of ours.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 23/12/13 10:13:48]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I bet it wasn't M&S rule from the very start,

the uk the religion we follow is C of E and catholic mainly,

Christianity is the most widely practiced and declared religion in England. The Anglican Church of England is the established church of England holding a special constitutional position for the United Kingdom.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"no more like UKaphobia. people can do or say what they like about us and they aren't Racists yet we say something and we are racist

Just like the video of the Muslim march in Preston, where Muslims are carrying banners telling white people to get out of their country. The police did nothing and arrested nobody.

How many arrests would their be if it was a march carrying banners telling Muslims to get out ?

I agree that charges for inciting racial hatred, or whatever they are calling it these days, should work both ways.

But the, admittedly few,Muslims who don't wish to integrate and contribute punch well above their weight when it comes to community disruption.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

Having been married to a Muslim for 10 years and still friends with him and his family, I find the misunderstanding and misinformation about Islam highly amusing.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

In our staff restaurant we have two Muslim chefs: their pork medallions are to die for! Every morning they cook abd serve pork sausages and bacon.

It appears other religions can have varying degrees of devotees...apart from Muslims.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"no more like UKaphobia. people can do or say what they like about us and they aren't Racists yet we say something and we are racist

Just like the video of the Muslim march in Preston, where Muslims are carrying banners telling white people to get out of their country. The police did nothing and arrested nobody.

How many arrests would their be if it was a march carrying banners telling Muslims to get out ?"

Usually there are load of arrests when those banners are waved because the EDL get pissed and fight with each other... But EDL, BNP, NF scum have been waving those banners for years so don't make out it wouldn't be allowed. We all know it is.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"But the, admittedly few,Muslims who don't wish to integrate and contribute punch well above their weight when it comes to community disruption."

You could say that about every other religion. And journalists too!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Christianity is the most widely practiced and declared religion in England. The Anglican Church of England is the established church of England holding a special constitutional position for the United Kingdom. "

Christianity wins, but only because Agnostic is not a religion! Anglicans are a subset of a minority.. so it's perfectly reasonable to give them political power over us all

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By *RYBBWCouple
over a year ago

Leeds.

So refusing to accept and abide by our laws and traditions is integrating ?

Entire estates classed as no-go areas for non-muslims. If a non-muslim enters they are severely beaten. Muslim gangs policing the streets at night imposing Shariah law on any non-muslim they see fit. Murdering innocent soldiers in the street in front of men, women and children in the name of Allah. Walking the streets demanding non-muslims be beheaded. Muslim gangs grooming young girls into prostitution.

Can't see what all the fuss is about.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"I think if your religion prevents you carrying out the duties a job requires, you shouldn't do that job. Likewise if that proves to be the case an employer should have the right to dismiss you.

My ex-husband's employer tried that, until I pointed out the errors of their ways. Irony is they bent over backwards for Muslims and Jews, but refused to acknowledge that Seventh Day Adventist also observed the Sabbath.

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