FabSwingers.com forum: Scottish People only...

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Yes, it's another independence question.

Basically not paid too much attention to this and not in close contact with Scots I know so-

Scottish only please what do you think of the independence thing?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

why can only the Scots answer?

are the rest of the UK not allowed a valid opinion?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The English never get a say in these matters

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Just curious to hear from the Horses' mouth so to speak.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just curious to hear from the Horses' mouth so to speak.

You could try the Scottish forum.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

with all due respect, like a lot of these things, half the people it affects dont know the rights and wrongs of their decisions either, as one side or anothers lies cloud the true issue

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ower monie maisters” as the taid remerkit whan he wes harlt ablo the harraw......

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Sorry never realised there was one.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Does their independence not effect the rest ofthe ccountry?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Will do some ab workouts x.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Will do some ab workouts x."

what?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does their independence not effect the rest ofthe ccountry?"

Yes but it has to be their choice to stay. If England were offered independence it would be interesting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Will do some ab workouts x.

what?"
lol just some crunches you know for the 6 pack x.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Will do some ab workouts x.

what? lol just some crunches you know for the 6 pack x."

no, i know what they are.

whats that got to do with Scottish independence?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Will do some ab workouts x.

what? lol just some crunches you know for the 6 pack x.

no, i know what they are.

whats that got to do with Scottish independence?"
Just wanted to type something fun x

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Will do some ab workouts x."

Good for you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Will do some ab workouts x.

Good for you

Thanks hun

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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"Will do some ab workouts x.

what? lol just some crunches you know for the 6 pack x.

no, i know what they are.

whats that got to do with Scottish independence? Just wanted to type something fun x"

Just ignore!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is going well...

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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

And back to the thread, The fact they have a 600+ page dossier on it and they have lowered the age of consent from 18 to 16, my own personal opinion is it is very suspicious!

Plus there are a lot of suppositions that no one knows the facts ie currency and the rest of it, as the Bank of England sets the interest rates,

So I will NOT be voting yes at all!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting thought - the Scots having a say on independence and not the other three home nations.

Ultimately I would think what we have achieve together is far more than we would have alone. Sum of the parts and all that. We might like to cheer against each other in football and other sports, but ultimately, in a difficult world, we all stand and die together when things get tough.

Not to mention the cost of going our separate ways.

Politicians often act out of self interest. I just hope we remain together because we are better together, but I do appreciate democratic principles and self determination.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Will do some ab workouts x.

what? lol just some crunches you know for the 6 pack x.

no, i know what they are.

whats that got to do with Scottish independence? Just wanted to type something fun x

Just ignore!"

yes, ignore the nasty couple

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By *eforfuncplCouple
over a year ago

Morecambe

Deffo not good for the uk !

Not good for any part of the uk !!! Can u imagine seperate armies!!! Non starter as far as I'm concerned a recipe for disaster that would cause chaos all over x

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By *eforfuncplCouple
over a year ago

Morecambe

Nearly forgot Salmond's an arsehole!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

England doesn't even have its own Fab Forum. All these things add up.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

"The English never get a say in these matters"

And many North of the border would argue that the English have had too much say over the last 300 years!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The English never get a say in these matters

And many North of the border would argue that the English have had too much say over the last 300 years!"

If you want to go back a bit further we can bring up the French, maybe the Danes..

Stupid way of debating the best for the situation now and going forward.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

"Nearly forgot Salmond's an arsehole!! "

And of course Cameron and Clegg are such wonderful people.

The only reason labour don't support Scottish independence is due to the loss of Scottish labour MPs in UK parliament would mean they would never get in power.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

"The English never get a say in these matters

And many North of the border would argue that the English have had too much say over the last 300 years!

If you want to go back a bit further we can bring up the French, maybe the Danes..

And what has that got to do with English rule over Scotland? The French and Scots were allies before the union and the Danes influence on the UK really has no bearing.

It is a vote for the population of Scotland, not for those in the rest of the UK. That includes Scots living outside Scotland who can't vote.

Stupid way of debating the best for the situation now and going forward."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The English never get a say in these matters

And many North of the border would argue that the English have had too much say over the last 300 years!

If you want to go back a bit further we can bring up the French, maybe the Danes..

And what has that got to do with English rule over Scotland? The French and Scots were allies before the union and the Danes influence on the UK really has no bearing.

It is a vote for the population of Scotland, not for those in the rest of the UK. That includes Scots living outside Scotland who can't vote.

Stupid way of debating the best for the situation now and going forward."

Well you pretty much made my point for me. Thanks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The fact that the English have had too much say in matters is why we are at this juncture. There are two points to ponder here. One is why are the Enhlish so keen to hang onto us? The second is what will life be like for the Scots if we fail to get independence?

For the record I haven't been persuaded either way....yet!

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By *anemartinCouple
over a year ago

lochgelly

Im at a loss with this one. Theres things that can make it good but more bad points. I live in england now so im not to bothered what happens, only thing that I am bothered about is needing my passport to visit home!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One is why are the Enhlish so keen to hang onto us? "

I haven't met many that are. If anything there's a begrudging that Scotland and Wales are able to have so much independence already on things like tuition fees, prescription costs etc. while England cannot.I'm not anti-union but if people don't want to be in it I'd rather they weren't, and the sooner it's decided the better.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

"The English never get a say in these matters

And many North of the border would argue that the English have had too much say over the last 300 years!

If you want to go back a bit further we can bring up the French, maybe the Danes..

And what has that got to do with English rule over Scotland? The French and Scots were allies before the union and the Danes influence on the UK really has no bearing.

It is a vote for the population of Scotland, not for those in the rest of the UK. That includes Scots living outside Scotland who can't vote.

Stupid way of debating the best for the situation now and going forward.

Well you pretty much made my point for me. Thanks."

Always glad to help

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

"The fact that the English have had too much say in matters is why we are at this juncture. There are two points to ponder here. One is why are the Enhlish so keen to hang onto us? The second is what will life be like for the Scots if we fail to get independence?

For the record I haven't been persuaded either way....yet!"

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

F F F F FREEDOM.!!!!!!!!!..YA BAS !!!. X x x

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

"One is why are the Enhlish so keen to hang onto us?

Well you can't blame the Scottish for the makeup if the UK parliament, after all there is only one Scottish tory in London. That alone speaks volumes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One is why are the Enhlish so keen to hang onto us?

That's why so many English are now living in Scotland because we have so many things that are free here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's because so many bloody politicians are Scottish

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

"F F F F FREEDOM.!!!!!!!!!..YA BAS !!!. X x x "

LMAO but not with a Aussie lilt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"F F F F FREEDOM.!!!!!!!!!..YA BAS !!!. X x x

LMAO but not with a Aussie lilt"

I remember when we saw it at the Cinema. Even we were against the English for a few seconds then.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

"It's because so many bloody politicians are Scottish

No, what you mean is that do many good politicians are Scottish. Christ, we gave you Irn Bru and you gave us Dandelion and Burdock!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Take away all the politics, Scotland becoming independent weakens the UNITED Kingdom and that is a bad thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But I like dandelion and burdock. I've never tried a deep fried pizza.

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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"Take away all the politics, Scotland becoming independent weakens the UNITED Kingdom and that is a bad thing."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

personally, cant see how Scotland can afford all the concessions they have made for their populace if they were independent, at least in the short term anyway, until they get their jobs base sorted out properly.

not saying its a 3rd world country by any means, but after years of being a smaller partner in a big groupage the country has a lot of work to be able to be truly independent, and i personally think Salmond has underestimated how much hard work it is going to be to make the devision viable.

IF the Scotish public want it, then all power to them.

but it should mean true independence and not part.

starting from scratch like the Balken countries did when they left the USSR.

have to use their own currency

apply to rejoin the EU

and all the other 'perks' afforded to the members of the UK.

its the only way it should be done

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"personally, cant see how Scotland can afford all the concessions they have made for their populace if they were independent, at least in the short term anyway, until they get their jobs base sorted out properly.

to be to make the devision viable.

Scotland has far more wealth than comes from oil though that is not to be sniffed it. We have a huge export business in food and drink especially whisky and shellfish. We are in the quality end of the market. We have a country that is visited by many nationalities that spend money here. We have a large renewables industry and growing fast. We can live on our own. Do we really want to be part of Europe that

costs us more than we gain from it.

IF the Scotish public want it, then all power to them.

but it should mean true independence and not part.

starting from scratch like the Balken countries did when they left the USSR.

have to use their own currency

apply to rejoin the EU

and all the other 'perks' afforded to the members of the UK.

its the only way it should be done"

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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

IF the Scotish public want it, then all power to them.

but it should mean true independence and not part.

starting from scratch like the Balken countries did when they left the USSR.

have to use their own currency

apply to rejoin the EU

and all the other 'perks' afforded to the members of the UK.

its the only way it should be done"

I agree and just hope all the 'brave heart' wannabes have a brain! That's why I think lowering the age of consent to vote is to try and save Salmonds arse!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

please, nobody take my posts as i want rid of Scotland, on the contrary, i believe the Union would be weaker if any of the parts left.

i am, however, not very impressed with the aggression expressed by some of the Scottish people interviewed on the tv.

whether they have actually searched for the most anti Union people to show i have no idea, but the pure hatred expressed cant be a fair representation of the general population of Scotland

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

IM FLYING WITHOUT ,..ENGLAND.!!. X X X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wonder if they'd remove the blue bits on the Union Jack?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wonder if they'd remove the blue bits on the Union Jack?"

we could say we have them because its bloody cold lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There would be some space to fit a bit of the Welsh flag on at last..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There would be some space to fit a bit of the Welsh flag on at last.."

isnt that the red bits?

white bits england

blue bits scotland

dont you mean there would be room for some NI bits?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

St George's Cross and St Patricks Cross are the red bits

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apparently the Welsh flag isn't on it because it was considered part of England at the time. Best keep that quiet..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you certain?

so why dont our national teams play in red?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They do!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They do!"

which ones?

as far as i can remember england plays in white, wales red, scotland blue, NI in green

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Union Jack is St Andrews Cross (white on blue), St Patricks Cross and St George's Cross (both red on white).

Their football strips have nothing to do with the flag.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The Union Jack is St Andrews Cross (white on blue), St Patricks Cross and St George's Cross (both red on white).

Their football strips have nothing to do with the flag."

i appreciate that, but im not talking about football specifically.

how can you say that the red on the union flag only represents the NI and English flags, but not the red thats in the Welsh one?

wonde rif it has something t odo with wales being a principality.mmmm

wiki, here i come

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

IF the Scotish public want it, then all power to them.

but it should mean true independence and not part.

starting from scratch like the Balken countries did when they left the USSR.

have to use their own currency

apply to rejoin the EU

and all the other 'perks' afforded to the members of the UK.

its the only way it should be done"

Nothing has been underestimated. In fact the Nats would have preferred to offer a choice of Devo-max in addition to full independence, and its a option many Scots, including myself, would have taken.

Cameron has taken that option off the table though... and what's more has refused to even discuss the matter, leaving us with only guesswork as to what might happen.

We really aren't fucking stupid. We do recognise that full independence is a helluva risky venture - but the fact is - we are not represented in Westminster. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that, without the Scots, Labour would be unable to win elections. This is factually incorrect. Only once since 1945 has the Scottish vote significantly altered the outcome of a general election. In other words - we get the government that the rest of the UK decides on - our vote pretty much does not count.

The main parties of the UK have no concern for Scotland whatsoever. The Tories pretty much actively hate us - Labour have moved so far from their Socialist roots that they have little relevance now in what is still a strongly Socialist nation. And the lib-dems turned their backs on the Scots people when they sold their souls for a seat at the big table.

We suffer poll taxes, illegal wars and nuclear feckin' weapons at the hands of governments we do not vote for..

"Cha Deid Mise Gu An Righ

Cha Deid Mise An Corr A Shabaid

O Lunnain Mheallt A Bhreatuinn Fhoilleil

Cha Seas Mi Ach 'Son Sith Nan Eilean" -Tir an Airm - Runrig

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the Scots wanted independence they would have fought harder at Culloden.

And Braveheart's all my arse, how can they show the Battle of Stirling Bridge, without an actually fecking bridge in the film.

The Scots are actually an Irish tribe, who brought whiskey, bagpipes and tartan with them, to a place that eventually became Scotland.

But that said, they do make nice shortbread x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does their independence not effect the rest ofthe ccountry?"

Have you developed a typing stutter?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Does their independence not effect the rest ofthe ccountry?

Have you developed a typing stutter?

i thought you were ill in bed???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If people have Scotlands best interests at heart then there is no way that we would ever vote to be ruled by posh davie, cleggie the cardboard cutout and the rest of the tory party in Westminster

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If people have Scotlands best interests at heart then there is no way that we would ever vote to be ruled by posh davie, cleggie the cardboard cutout and the rest of the tory party in Westminster"

No fucking way the English would either. In fact they didn't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If people have Scotlands best interests at heart then there is no way that we would ever vote to be ruled by posh davie, cleggie the cardboard cutout and the rest of the tory party in Westminster"

no offence, but the last lot didnt do Scotland any favours either did they.

dont understand the whole 'i hate you because of your background' bullshit arguments.

shows people to be either smal minded, jealous or petty

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Does their independence not effect the rest ofthe ccountry?

Have you developed a typing stutter?

i thought you were ill in bed???

I woke for a wee and then a little browse. Mwahhhh

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By *ScotsmanMan
over a year ago

ayrshire

"If people have Scotlands best interests at heart then there is no way that we would ever vote to be ruled by posh davie, cleggie the cardboard cutout and the rest of the tory party in Westminster

No fucking way the English would either. In fact they didn't."
,aye but England nearly vote Tory all the time its always close and i feel sorry for Tory haters in England because your never far away FAE a Tory .but im voting for independence for the same reason as Kevin bridges and a lot of other Scottish ..fuk it will be a laugh. X x X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Never mentioned hate once

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If people have Scotlands best interests at heart then there is no way that we would ever vote to be ruled by posh davie, cleggie the cardboard cutout and the rest of the tory party in Westminster

No fucking way the English would either. In fact they didn't.,aye but England nearly vote Tory all the time its always close and i feel sorry for Tory haters in England because your never far away FAE a Tory .but im voting for independence for the same reason as Kevin bridges and a lot of other Scottish ..fuk it will be a laugh. X x X

Surrounded by the buggers! It is my main reason for hoping Scotland stays. And Andy Murray of course.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just imagine the fun we could have with the south when we get our freedom. We can get rid of your german royal family, refuse to accept your cash when you come north, pish in the whisky we sell to you .Make you change the colours on your flag .its going to be a huge party lol

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By *aveandkate35Couple
over a year ago

telford

"Interesting thought - the Scots having a say on independence and not the other three home nations.

Not to mention the cost of going our separate ways.

Politicians often act out of self interest. I just hope we remain together because we are better together, but I do appreciate democratic principles and self determination."

Well put.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just imagine the fun we could have with the south when we get our freedom. We can get rid of your german royal family, refuse to accept your cash when you come north, pish in the whisky we sell to you .Make you change the colours on your flag .its going to be a huge party lol"

I don't drink your whisky. The Irish make better stuff.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bet they pish in it as well. It certainly tasted like they did when I was stood in a romeo tower when I did my Ireland tours when I was in the army

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"One is why are the Enhlish so keen to hang onto us?

Well you can't blame the Scottish for the makeup if the UK parliament, after all there is only one Scottish tory in London. That alone speaks volumes. "

And only 6 SNP Members of Parliament. That's out of a possible 59.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Only 6 in yours, there are a few more in the one north of the border

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Only 6 in yours, there are a few more in the one north of the border"

Eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

there are no SNP mebers in the UK parliament

think _nny was talking about his own parliament (he is in glasgow afterall)

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"there are no SNP mebers in the UK parliament

think _nny was talking about his own parliament (he is in glasgow afterall)"

There are 6 SNP MPs in the House of Commons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"there are no SNP mebers in the UK parliament

think _nny was talking about his own parliament (he is in glasgow afterall)

There are 6 SNP MPs in the House of Commons."

ah, my mistake.

i thought they were a little more common

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have several Scottish friends, who all tell me how fantastic Scotland is, which makes me ask....if it's so great? Then why the feck are you living in England?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well I'm looking forward to going Glasgow later on today. I enjoy visiting Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are a lot of folkies here in Scotland that get a hard on at the thought of being badly ruled from Westminster and I bet there are a good few folks living south of the border that hate the thought of being controlled by the tory party in Westminster, it would be a win win if we sent south all those that delight in having the yoke of Westminster round their necks and all those south that wish to escape the cold grasping hands of posh davie in Westminster lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Could come north

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes, it's another independence question.

Basically not paid too much attention to this and not in close contact with Scots I know so-

Scottish only please what do you think of the independence thing?"

I dont think racism is an attractive trait !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes, it's another independence question.

Basically not paid too much attention to this and not in close contact with Scots I know so-

Scottish only please what do you think of the independence thing?

I dont think racism is an attractive trait !"

the op has already explained that he wants to find out the opinions from scotland as he is not in touch with anyone up here. It would be wise to consider the context of the thread instead of accusing him of racism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The truth is that it is extremely difficult for the public to wade through the misinformation that we are being fed, which in turn makes it difficult to make an informed decision.

There are a lot of people who will make their decision based on loyalty to a party and/or according to their own ignorance, prejudices and quite frankly stupidity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"with all due respect, like a lot of these things, half the people it affects dont know the rights and wrongs of their decisions either, as one side or anothers lies cloud the true issue"

very true

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"And back to the thread, The fact they have a 600+ page dossier on it and they have lowered the age of consent from 18 to 16, my own personal opinion is it is very suspicious!

Plus there are a lot of suppositions that no one knows the facts ie currency and the rest of it, as the Bank of England sets the interest rates,

So I will NOT be voting yes at all! "

perhaps if the westminster parliament would set out its position on currency the picture would become clearer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nearly forgot Salmond's an arsehole!! "

thats an intelligent contribution, does the same not apply to the rest of the political class

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Im at a loss with this one. Theres things that can make it good but more bad points. I live in england now so im not to bothered what happens, only thing that I am bothered about is needing my passport to visit home!"

would you need a passport ? the scottish government propose the same system as there is in ireland regarding borders, westminster will not state their position.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One is why are the Enhlish so keen to hang onto us?

scotland, wales and northern ireland all have a range of these type of benefits which england dont not as a result of having more but as a result of spending decisions which prevent access to, for example a range of cancer treatments only available in england.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The English never get a say in these matters

And many North of the border would argue that the English have had too much say over the last 300 years!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

IF the Scotish public want it, then all power to them.

but it should mean true independence and not part.

starting from scratch like the Balken countries did when they left the USSR.

have to use their own currency

apply to rejoin the EU

and all the other 'perks' afforded to the members of the UK.

its the only way it should be done"

affordability is a big issue, again clouded by misinformation. Including a former chancellor (denis heally) admitting that the treasury fudge the figures to show scotlands contribution in a worse light.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"please, nobody take my posts as i want rid of Scotland, on the contrary, i believe the Union would be weaker if any of the parts left.

i am, however, not very impressed with the aggression expressed by some of the Scottish people interviewed on the tv.

whether they have actually searched for the most anti Union people to show i have no idea, but the pure hatred expressed cant be a fair representation of the general population of Scotland"

agree with you on the aggression being displayed by some, not representative of all though. Im a bit cynical about the media on this as well, cant see any of them being objective or impartial.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If people have Scotlands best interests at heart then there is no way that we would ever vote to be ruled by posh davie, cleggie the cardboard cutout and the rest of the tory party in Westminster

no offence, but the last lot didnt do Scotland any favours either did they.

dont understand the whole 'i hate you because of your background' bullshit arguments.

shows people to be either smal minded, jealous or petty"

the reality is that many scots and no doubt other people too are slowly coming to understand that westminster is an institution that puts its own interests first, its no longer about england or the rest ofthe uk for many of us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well I'm looking forward to going Glasgow later on today. I enjoy visiting Scotland. "

im sure you will.be made welcome, we're a nice bunch.

honest

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let them have there independents I say

But let's build the wall bigger this time so when it all goes wrong we can keep them out .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it would be a shame to lose Scotland but at the end of the day can you blame them.

Look at the state this country is getting itself into.

Watch, Wales will be next.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"And back to the thread, The fact they have a 600+ page dossier on it and they have lowered the age of consent from 18 to 16, my own personal opinion is it is very suspicious!

Plus there are a lot of suppositions that no one knows the facts ie currency and the rest of it, as the Bank of England sets the interest rates,

So I will NOT be voting yes at all!

perhaps if the westminster parliament would set out its position on currency the picture would become clearer."

I reckon Westminster will keep Sterling.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well I'm looking forward to going Glasgow later on today. I enjoy visiting Scotland.

im sure you will.be made welcome, we're a nice bunch.

honest

Lol first thing I got asked "you bringing the JD"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Obviously I should watch the news more often as I've no idea what you are all on about.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Obviously I should watch the news more often as I've no idea what you are all on about.

Don't bother with the news. Just watch Balamory or Braveheart for Salmond's idea of a Separate Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Obviously I should watch the news more often as I've no idea what you are all on about.

Don't bother with the news. Just watch Balamory or Braveheart for Salmond's idea of a Separate Scotland."

Braveheart maybe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Obviously I should watch the news more often as I've no idea what you are all on about.

Don't bother with the news. Just watch Balamory or Braveheart for Salmond's idea of a Separate Scotland."

and there lies the problem, instead of adding something constructive to the debate we get this nonsense.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Obviously I should watch the news more often as I've no idea what you are all on about.

Don't bother with the news. Just watch Balamory or Braveheart for Salmond's idea of a Separate Scotland.

and there lies the problem, instead of adding something constructive to the debate we get this nonsense."

Speaking of nonsense, next thing we know, someone will bring up the Denis Healey bollox.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Obviously I should watch the news more often as I've no idea what you are all on about.

Don't bother with the news. Just watch Balamory or Braveheart for Salmond's idea of a Separate Scotland.

and there lies the problem, instead of adding something constructive to the debate we get this nonsense.

"
did I fall for a joke then, as, I thought it was a serious post?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Obviously I should watch the news more often as I've no idea what you are all on about.

Don't bother with the news. Just watch Balamory or Braveheart for Salmond's idea of a Separate Scotland.

and there lies the problem, instead of adding something constructive to the debate we get this nonsense.

did I fall for a joke then, as, I thought it was a serious post?

"
the Braveheart bit I mean

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Obviously I should watch the news more often as I've no idea what you are all on about.

Don't bother with the news. Just watch Balamory or Braveheart for Salmond's idea of a Separate Scotland.

and there lies the problem, instead of adding something constructive to the debate we get this nonsense.

Speaking of nonsense, next thing we know, someone will bring up the Denis Healey bollox."

by dennis heally bollox you mean the admission from a unionist that when he was chancellor he deliberately under stated scotlands contribution to the treasury. Surely something that all members of the public should be disapointed to hear that they were lied to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Obviously I should watch the news more often as I've no idea what you are all on about.

Don't bother with the news. Just watch Balamory or Braveheart for Salmond's idea of a Separate Scotland.

and there lies the problem, instead of adding something constructive to the debate we get this nonsense.

did I fall for a joke then, as, I thought it was a serious post?

no its just that we have some individuals who prefer to spout rubbish about individuals instead of offering anything sensible to support their own views.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Obviously I should watch the news more often as I've no idea what you are all on about.

Don't bother with the news. Just watch Balamory or Braveheart for Salmond's idea of a Separate Scotland.

and there lies the problem, instead of adding something constructive to the debate we get this nonsense.

did I fall for a joke then, as, I thought it was a serious post?

no its just that we have some individuals who prefer to spout rubbish about individuals instead of offering anything sensible to support their own views."

Ok thanks

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

"Sorry never realised there was one. "

Lol and that my man says it all, like the govt it doesnt realise anything north of london exists

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

[Removed by poster at 15/12/13 09:05:13]

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

For the record I haven't been persuaded either way....yet!"

You might be surprised. From figures ive read it seems more English - based voters are in favour of Scottish secession than Scottish voters. If the SNP wanted to guarantee an YES vote they would do worse than to make it a UK wide vote.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

For the record I haven't been persuaded either way....yet!

Well, they've tried every other way of fiddling the franchise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

IF the Scotish public want it, then all power to them.

but it should mean true independence and not part.

starting from scratch like the Balken countries did when they left the USSR.

have to use their own currency

apply to rejoin the EU

and all the other 'perks' afforded to the members of the UK.

its the only way it should be done"

Exactly........

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

IF the Scotish public want it, then all power to them.

but it should mean true independence and not part.

starting from scratch like the Balken countries did when they left the USSR.

have to use their own currency

apply to rejoin the EU

and all the other 'perks' afforded to the members of the UK.

its the only way it should be done

Exactly........

Perks?

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

IF the Scotish public want it, then all power to them.

but it should mean true independence and not part.

starting from scratch like the Balken countries did when they left the USSR.

have to use their own currency

apply to rejoin the EU

and all the other 'perks' afforded to the members of the UK.

its the only way it should be done

Exactly........

Perks?"

There's several - like the UK rebate and opt-outs from the schengen area and stuff.

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

Hmmmm - An interesting array of misconceptions on show here...

Someone mentioned that they were planning to lower the age of consent from 18 to 16 - a bit odd since people in Scotland have been able to marry at 16 for a looooong time (hence English people running away to get married at Gretna Green). Perhaps there's a confussion between the age of consent and voting age.

To me it seems fair enough that somebody who's old enough to be married married or join the army should also be allowed to vote... nothing suspicious about that as far as I can see

Economic cooperation doesn't become impossible just because countries separate in other ways. The pound belongs as much to the Scotts every bit as much as it does to us - after all, Scottish banks print their own notes already and the Bank of England was founded by a Scotsman.

Despite what Westminster might want us to think, neutral administration of the pound and its interst rates could be set up fairly easily - from the Isle of Man, for example. It's about as much of an issue as the idea of needing a passport to cross the border - I've been to Ireland plenty of times without a passport.. because it's not required.

Since Scotland is already a "county" whose laws (which are historically separate from England's) have become integrated with EU Law, it could be argued that they are as much entitled to retain their existing membership as the rest of the UK.

Add the Scottish fishing areas and oil fields into the equation and it's very likely the EU will be most keen for them to retain membership, despite what some random Spanniard might blurt out in a thoughtless moment.

Add further the transport "Euroroute" (A75) connecting Northern Ireland to the north of England via the southwest of Scotland and you have very high likelihood that England will want to retain access along it without leaving the EU zone.

None of this would "weaken" the UK but it would give Scotland its own voting rights in the EU and UN, as well as the Commonwealth (for what it's worth).

I don't see separate armies as a problem either - after all, Ireland have their own forces and coastal patrols without creating any difficulties for the UK. Indeed, the RNLI operate their lifeboats from both the UK and The RoI seamlessly.

The main problem, from England's military's standpoint is that we'd have to find a new base for our nuclear submarines and new ranges to test our experimental weapons (eg. depleted uranium rounds, which our MoD prefer not to test in England).

As for the Scotts, who's to say they can't scrap their nuclear/military budget and join the non-aligned nations instead, saving loads of money which could then be spent on things like roads, schools, hospitals and the like ... which would have the added benefit of kick starting many currently static parts of their economy, more than compensating for any losses in the military sector - if such losses were, indeed, to happen once an albeit far smaller independent navy came into being.

Surely it's perfectly fair for them to make that decision for themselves and for us to respect that - especially when you consider how much our current government want to spend replacing Trident simply to retain our seat in the UN Security Council.

By the way, did some one say the Balkan states separated from the USSR?... Ummm, I don't think so - sure, they made up the former Yugoslavia, and were somewhat sympathetic under Tito, but they were never actually Soviet.

The Baltic states, which had been annexed by the USSR, are delighted with their independence and show no inclination to be absorbed into Russia.

Indeed, of the 150 or so countries that have gained independence in the last 50 years, not a single one has asked to be reintegrated.

For my part, I'm undecided but, as an adopted Cumbrian, I just wish the northern counties (Cumbria, Northumberland, etc.) could be given a referendum to leave England and join the newly independent nation of Scotland - that way people from Yorkshire wouldn't have to pretend to be from the north of England ... suddenly, they really would be!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let them have there independents I say

But let's build the wall bigger this time so when it all goes wrong we can keep them out ."

And a smart arse comment like that adds so much to this post ?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hmmmm - An interesting array of misconceptions on show here...

To me it seems fair enough that somebody who's old enough to be married married or join the army should also be allowed to vote... nothing suspicious about that as far as I can see

None of this would "weaken" the UK but it would give Scotland its own voting rights in the EU and UN, as well as the Commonwealth (for what it's worth).

The Baltic states, which had been annexed by the USSR, are delighted with their independence and show no inclination to be absorbed into Russia.

Indeed, of the 150 or so countries that have gained independence in the last 50 years, not a single one has asked to be reintegrated.

The North East already had their referendum.

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

Of course, none of this takes into occount the fact that Scotland is, at its heart, a beaten nation - not just in the sense that its subservience to the will of Westminster stems from the defeat at Flodden and the subsequent clearances imposed by the gentry who resided mainly in England, but in the sense that much of its population continue to be convinced they are incapable of self government after all this time.

In this sense it's much like a beaten or bullied spouse who, battered and bruised, continues to stay with the abuser - not only tollerating it but also defending their relationship from those who would try to help.

To me, this kind of abusive codependency is at once pathetic and incomprehensible - rather like a severe case of collective/national Stockholm syndrome.

It's been going on so long that it seems normal and it's easier to put up with the pain and abuse than face the fear of breaking free and taking responsibility. As an observer, it's pretty clear that it's this fear that the "Better Together" campaign is reliant upon.

Despite the oportunity that's open to them at last, I very much doubt that such a subdued people will grasp their courage when the moment comes - sure, many will... but most won't.

When it comes down to it, I suppose that's what it means to be truly beaten... it kind of makes me sad.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".... many will... but most won't.

That's the only bit of that pseudo psychological gibberish that's accurate.

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

".... many will... but most won't.

That's the only bit of that pseudo psychological gibberish that's accurate."

An guth 's an nàire

Air cluasan eachdraidh

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

".... many will... but most won't.

That's the only bit of that pseudo psychological gibberish that's accurate."

... which rather nicely illustrates my point about denial.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of course, none of this takes into occount the fact that Scotland is, at its heart, a beaten nation - not just in the sense that its subservience to the will of Westminster stems from the defeat at Flodden and the subsequent clearances imposed by the gentry who resided mainly in England, but in the sense that much of its population continue to be convinced they are incapable of self government after all this time.

To me, this kind of abusive codependency is at once pathetic and incomprehensible - rather like a severe case of collective/national Stockholm syndrome.

Despite the oportunity that's open to them at last, I very much doubt that such a subdued people will grasp their courage when the moment comes - sure, many will... but most won't.

When it comes down to it, I suppose that's what it means to be truly beaten... it kind of makes me sad.

It makes me sad to know there are people who really believe that type of nonsense.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

He doesn't believe it. Someone told him it at a simmit conference

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"He doesn't believe it. Someone told him it at a simmit conference

Of course I don't belive that - no one does ... and we all know that the UK has been run secretly from Hollyrood.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

hahaha....have not read this whole thread but had to laugh at the op's question......I am Scottish and proud of being a Scottish Brit. However I live in England and are therefore not entitled to vote. If I am a Bulgarian or Romanian (just using these as an example because of dates) and I arrive in Scotland on the 1st January....once I have been there for 6 months....I am entitled to vote!....How does that work?

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

"hahaha....have not read this whole thread but had to laugh at the op's question......I am Scottish and proud of being a Scottish Brit. However I live in England and are therefore not entitled to vote. If I am a Bulgarian or Romanian (just using these as an example because of dates) and I arrive in Scotland on the 1st January....once I have been there for 6 months....I am entitled to vote!....How does that work?

Were you not ,yourself, entitled to vote on English matters when you moved south of the border?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

If it's that important to you - come back.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it's that important to you - come back."

It's not that important really......the vote will obviously be a big NO....Scotland cannot survive on it's own and whoever thinks that it can is deluded....Plus it gets too cold there now for my old bones!

But for me, I think it would be the wrong thing to do.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

"If people have Scotlands best interests at heart then there is no way that we would ever vote to be ruled by posh davie, cleggie the cardboard cutout and the rest of the tory party in Westminster

no offence, but the last lot didnt do Scotland any favours either did they.

dont understand the whole 'i hate you because of your background' bullshit arguments.

shows people to be either smal minded, jealous or petty"

The 'last lot' gave Scotland it's own parliament and a lot more. No tory government has given Scotland anything positive, lots of contempt mind you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

apathy

no better no worse

I just dont know why people think major changes will happen..

politicians will still be lying,thieving and mismanaging...while making up stories that we'll go along with....why?

cos my lifes too comfortable in this shit

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

direach maslach....

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"...the vote will obviously be a big NO....Scotland cannot survive on it's own and whoever thinks that it can is deluded."

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying an independent Scotland wouldn't work. In fact, there's no evidence whatsoever to show that an independent Scotland couldn't flourish, and much to suggest it could.

Actually, Scotland could do very well indeed if it went it alone and many who have campaigned against it have aknowledged that - including Cameron as it happens.

I'm also not trying to cause offence as much as give a detached outside viewpoint. What I'm saying is that too many Scots lack the confidence to take the plunge and break free - anybody looking in from the outside can see that. Trust me, I've spent more than my fair share of time toing and froing around emerging states.

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By *rsFine-MrBallsCouple
over a year ago

markinch

"Hmmmm - An interesting array of misconceptions on show here...

To me it seems fair enough that somebody who's old enough to be married married or join the army should also be allowed to vote... nothing suspicious about that as far as I can see

None of this would "weaken" the UK but it would give Scotland its own voting rights in the EU and UN, as well as the Commonwealth (for what it's worth).

The Baltic states, which had been annexed by the USSR, are delighted with their independence and show no inclination to be absorbed into Russia.

Indeed, of the 150 or so countries that have gained independence in the last 50 years, not a single one has asked to be reintegrated.

Once we get independence im voting this guy in as leader of the scottish parliament and not bothered where hes from . Pretty much stated all my opinions . Freeeeeddddooooommmmm

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So are the "pro independence" voters prepared to go it alone completely ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I grew up fiercely independent very keen to throw off the yoke of British sovereignty and all that. Wasn't untill I travelled and worked in England and all over Europe Asia and the states that I realised we have been punching above our weight for hundreds of years. We have never lost our identity nor our pride. We have been an independant land the whole time.

Now we've decided we need another level of useless expensive politicians. We have two parliaments two governments. When the rest of Europe is trying to group together for economies of scale and collective bargaining we've decided to have more bs more politicians more red tape. Just because they're Scottish doesn't mean they're not assholes.

I'm still patriotic I'm still Scottish but for gods sake do we really need that lot in holyrood to Tell us that were Scottish !

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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago

Derby

I'm still patriotic I'm still Scottish but for gods sake do we really need that lot in holyrood to Tell us that were Scottish !"

No, but you need that lot in Holyrood to tell us that we're English. If only we could be included in the vote ad well, after all, it's something that affects all of us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, but you need that lot in Holyrood to tell us that we're English. If only we could be included in the vote ad well, after all, it's something that affects all of us."

You having a vote as a result of the referendum being something that affects you throws up an interesting proposition.

Mr Cameron has promised a referendum on the E.U. so my question would be if the whole of the UK population was able to vote in the scottish referendum, should the whole of the E.U. population be able to vote in this referendum ?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"So are the "pro independence" voters prepared to go it alone completely ? "

No.

They want to keep Sterling, the Bank of England, the Monarchy, MOD contracts etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Salmond is an odious little fucker with his own sorry agenda, think hes in for a shock come polling day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So are the "pro independence" voters prepared to go it alone completely ?

No.

They want to keep Sterling, the Bank of England, the Monarchy, MOD contracts etc. "

Ok well I class myself as English. So if Scotland decides independence and I see we are still supporting Scotland financially I will petition my MP till he's sick of hearing from me.

I love Scotland, I'm not afraid if you break away we will suffer, but if you do, you do so finitely. I won't be happy paying taxes to a nation that cannot support itself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am in the better together camp.

The posters on here are correct it affects everyone in the UK. As a nation we have achieved a great deal together.

If Scotland were to leave ( which I am sure it wont )the rest of the UK will lose some of it's influence throughout the world.

Please do not think this is an anti English vote as it is not.

Some people just don't vote Tory in Scotland and do not want there policies in Scotland. If Scotland left the UK the rest would be stuck with a permanent Tory government.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"So are the "pro independence" voters prepared to go it alone completely ?

No.

They want to keep Sterling, the Bank of England, the Monarchy, MOD contracts etc.

Ok well I class myself as English. So if Scotland decides independence and I see we are still supporting Scotland financially I will petition my MP till he's sick of hearing from me.

I love Scotland, I'm not afraid if you break away we will suffer, but if you do, you do so finitely. I won't be happy paying taxes to a nation that cannot support itself. "

Don't be losing any sleep about this.

Separation isn't going to happen.

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"If Scotland left the UK the rest would be stuck with a permanent Tory government."

There are plenty of folks in Scotland who would view this alone as an excellent reason to vote "yes".

As a serious point, though, it can be illustrated by the fact that 80% of people and a overwhelming majority of MSPs do not want nuclear weapons based in Scotland - and despite this, the government in Westmimster plan to keep them there... so much for democracy, eh?

If I'm honest, I have to conceed the only way for the Scots to get rid of them will be to vote for independence.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"If Scotland left the UK the rest would be stuck with a permanent Tory government.

There are plenty of folks in Scotland who would view this alone as an excellent reason to vote "yes".

If I'm honest, I have to conceed the only way for the Scots to get rid of them will be to vote for independence."

HMNB Clyde is merely a bargaining chip for the Separatists.

They'll give up their demands for 'no nukes' as quickly as they'd sell their mother if they thought they could get something out of it - just as when they changed their policy on NATO.

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"If Scotland left the UK the rest would be stuck with a permanent Tory government.

There are plenty of folks in Scotland who would view this alone as an excellent reason to vote "yes".

If I'm honest, I have to conceed the only way for the Scots to get rid of them will be to vote for independence.

HMNB Clyde is merely a bargaining chip for the Separatists.

They'll give up their demands for 'no nukes' as quickly as they'd sell their mother if they thought they could get something out of it - just as when they changed their policy on NATO."

Perhaps, who knows with politicians - they're slimy fuckers no matter where they're from - but even they would have a tough time giving the bird to 80% of their voters and keeping their seats.. no matter how you cut it, that just isn't going to happen.

The simple fact is that if Scotland votes for independence them the overwhelming consensus will mean the nuclear weapons will go - end of...

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"If Scotland left the UK the rest would be stuck with a permanent Tory government.

There are plenty of folks in Scotland who would view this alone as an excellent reason to vote "yes".

If I'm honest, I have to conceed the only way for the Scots to get rid of them will be to vote for independence.

HMNB Clyde is merely a bargaining chip for the Separatists.

They'll give up their demands for 'no nukes' as quickly as they'd sell their mother if they thought they could get something out of it - just as when they changed their policy on NATO.

The simple fact is that if Scotland votes for independence them the overwhelming consensus will mean the nuclear weapons will go - end of..."

The referendum isn't a 'keeping your seat' sorta vote. It's a one off.

SNP politicians are like their principles, if you don't like the current bunch, there'll be a whole new lot along soon. Different faces, same lies.

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

"If Scotland left the UK the rest would be stuck with a permanent Tory government."

Complete and total nonsense. I've already said this. The Scottish vote has very little influence on general elections. This is an outright fact - not an opinion.

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

"If Scotland left the UK the rest would be stuck with a permanent Tory government.

There are plenty of folks in Scotland who would view this alone as an excellent reason to vote "yes".

If I'm honest, I have to conceed the only way for the Scots to get rid of them will be to vote for independence.

HMNB Clyde is merely a bargaining chip for the Separatists.

They'll give up their demands for 'no nukes' as quickly as they'd sell their mother if they thought they could get something out of it - just as when they changed their policy on NATO.

The simple fact is that if Scotland votes for independence them the overwhelming consensus will mean the nuclear weapons will go - end of...

The referendum isn't a 'keeping your seat' sorta vote. It's a one off.

SNP politicians are like their principles, if you don't like the current bunch, there'll be a whole new lot along soon. Different faces, same lies."

Can't change things so don't try? That's pretty much it eh? the core of the Unionist argument.

You know... I try to be reasonable with Unionists but this kind of apathetic drivel makes my blood boil. Buy you wouldn't know what thats like cos there's nae feckin' blood left in ye.

"O Ghaidheil, o caite 'n deach d'uail

'N ad Chìne 's nad chanan 's do thir"

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"starting from scratch like the Balken countries did when they left the USSR.

have to use their own currency

apply to rejoin the EU

and all the other 'perks' afforded to the members of the UK."

DUUHH!... The Balkan states were never part of the USSR - they made up the former Yugoslavia, which was never a single EU member.

You must be thinking of the Baltic states which, by the way, were never part of the EU prior to leaving the USSR, they were part of the USSR - so it's a complete nonsense to say they had to "reapply" for membership.

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

As for UK's "perks" - do they include the "perk" of paying in vastly more than we get out of it?... presumably to give us a nice warm glow of satisfaction at paying for the bearocracy in Brussels/Strasburg, supporting French farmers and subsidising infrastructure projects in new member states.

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

[Removed by poster at 17/12/13 10:23:10]

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"If Scotland left the UK the rest would be stuck with a permanent Tory government.

--------------------------

Complete and total nonsense. I've already said this. The Scottish vote has very little influence on general elections. This is an outright fact - not an opinion."

Have to disagree - the balance of Scottish voting in UK general election is such that, without the Scottish portion, Labour will have a very hard time coming anywhere near a majority. That's a well established fact - ye canna change the laws of physics (or, in this case simple ariyhmetic) no matter how hard you thump your ballot paper into the box.

"Can't change things so don't try? That's pretty much it eh? the core of the Unionist argument.

You know... I try to be reasonable with Unionists but this kind of apathetic drivel makes my blood boil. Buy you wouldn't know what thats like cos there's nae feckin' blood left in ye."

Dead right about that though. That's the trouble with too many Scots - despite all the indication that show that they could make a great success of independence (unhindered by the costs of huge military budgets and mind boggling tax breaks for companies like Vodafone), they lack the imagination and courage.

Personally, I'd happy for the union to remain because in England we benefit greatly from what Scotland gives us... it means we can store much of our nuclear waste as far away from us as possible, any accident or attack on our nuclear deterent will focus far away from our cities, we can retain our control and supply of North Sea oil/gas, we can use the vast northern fishing area as a bargaining chip at the EU, etc. If these advantages were to be Scotland's alone, those of us south of the border would be nowhere near as well off - and folks like me would have to consider moving to Scotland.

As it is, we'll just have to hope Scots don't suddenly wake up to these facts and stay beaten.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"If Scotland left the UK the rest would be stuck with a permanent Tory government.

--------------------------

Complete and total nonsense. I've already said this. The Scottish vote has very little influence on general elections. This is an outright fact - not an opinion.

..............."

Or insist a fact is a fact when it transparently isn't - even in Gaelic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As long as they don't outlaw swinging if they ever did get independence eh!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"and folks like me would have to consider moving to Scotland."

OK now you've convinced me - vote INDEPENDENCE!!

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"Take away all the politics, Scotland becoming independent weakens the UNITED Kingdom and that is a bad thing."

Missed the mind bogglingly hilarious irony of this post ... take away the politics and you have a world where weird ideas like nation' suppoed "strength", etc becomes irrelevant!

Meanwhile, talking of irony, here's what some yanks might say...

http://harddawn.com/why-america-must-say-no-to-scotlands-independence-from-great-britain/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think that independence would definitely work for Scotland as long as they get themselves a modern, transparent, minimal bureaucratic political system - in which case it would have to be good for the rest of the 'union'.

Demand it, you Scots!!

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"and folks like me would have to consider moving to Scotland.

OK now you've convinced me - vote INDEPENDENCE!!"

Yay!... Self-rule for Cumberland!

Marra!

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"As long as they don't outlaw swinging if they ever did get independence eh!

We'll all be watching John Snow's swingometer to keep abreast of things.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Take away all the politics, Scotland becoming independent weakens the UNITED Kingdom and that is a bad thing.

Missed the mind bogglingly hilarious irony of this post ... take away the politics and you have a world where weird ideas like nation' suppoed "strength", etc becomes irrelevant!

Meanwhile, talking of irony, here's what some yanks might say...

http://harddawn.com/why-america-must-say-no-to-scotlands-independence-from-great-britain/

Interesting choice of reading

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

"If Scotland left the UK the rest would be stuck with a permanent Tory government.

--------------------------

Complete and total nonsense. I've already said this. The Scottish vote has very little influence on general elections. This is an outright fact - not an opinion.

No it's a well established MYTH. Check the results of elections since 1945 - and then tell me again I cannae count.

Not to mention the 2013 review which decreases the Scottish influence even further. Not as much as Wales mind... they are really getting shafted.

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"No it's a well established MYTH. Check the results of elections since 1945 - and then tell me again I cannae count.

Not to mention the 2013 review which decreases the Scottish influence even further. Not as much as Wales mind... they are really getting shafted.

I'd be very surprised if this were the case but I'll check it out when I have a moment - to this end, a link to your source would be useful.

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"Take away all the politics, Scotland becoming independent weakens the UNITED Kingdom and that is a bad thing.

Missed the mind bogglingly hilarious irony of this post ... take away the politics and you have a world where weird ideas like nation' suppoed "strength", etc becomes irrelevant!

Meanwhile, talking of irony, here's what some yanks might say...

http://harddawn.com/why-america-must-say-no-to-scotlands-independence-from-great-britain/

Interesting choice of reading"

Yes, I love that blog - it's hilarious. Especially the comments/replies from the American nut jobs voicing their agreement, obviously oblivious to its being a spoof. I mean really, "hard dawn"... geddit?

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By *rodie53Man
over a year ago

Manchester

If the English were asked Scotland would have been dumped years ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No it's a well established MYTH. Check the results of elections since 1945 - and then tell me again I cannae count.

if i remember right this stands up in terms of votes cast.

but in relation to seats won the 1964 and the first 1974 results would be different.

politics resources.net have stats related to general election results for anyone who is interested (or pedantic enough to go do the arithmetic)

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

No it's a well established MYTH. Check the results of elections since 1945 - and then tell me again I cannae count.

if i remember right this stands up in terms of votes cast.

but in relation to seats won the 1964 and the first 1974 results would be different.

politics resources.net have stats related to general election results for anyone who is interested (or pedantic enough to go do the arithmetic)

Wings over Scotland have already done an analysis.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-doesnt-need-scotland/

I'll not make much comment on their conclusions, save to say I agree with them - but then I am biased in that respect. The numbers however do stand up for themselves.

The number of seats in Scotland as compared to England is another factor that needs to be considered. There are 20 fewer seats in Scotland than there were 30 years ago. Granted, English seats have also been cut in the 2013 review but if you analyse the percentage share of seats you'll find that the English share has risen by 3 points over the last 30 years while the Scottish share has dropped by the same amount. It is unequivocably a fact that the Scottish influence in Parliament is negligible, and what little influence there is, is declining.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Wings over Scotland have already done an analysis."

Why didn't you say so in the first place? If Wings over Scotland says so, it must be true, mustn't it?

In fact, why bother with the Neverendum? WoS says Separation is a good thing, so that must be true too.

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee

""Wings over Scotland have already done an analysis."

Why didn't you say so in the first place? If Wings over Scotland says so, it must be true, mustn't it?

In fact, why bother with the Neverendum? WoS says Separation is a good thing, so that must be true too."

The Wings over Scotland one is actually more forgiving that my own analysis - based on this document

http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons/lib/research/rp2003/rp03-059.pdf

My findings are in this spreadsheet if anyone is interested.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69730036/electionanalysis.xls

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