FabSwingers.com forum: Majority of cyclists jump red lights

By *teveanddebs OP Couple
over a year ago

Norwich

As seen in the footage filmed by the LTDA.

But of course it's only a minority that break the law according to some stupid woman on the telly this morning.

WTF?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some of them seem to have a death wish

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By *teveanddebs OP Couple
over a year ago

Norwich

The same stupid woman also tried to say they were safer that way!

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By *ndy_mandyCouple
over a year ago

Tredegar

I was a van driver for years, saw so many stupid cyclists on the road, had a run in once with a twat on a motorbike as well once, some of those can be just as bad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a cyclist, who knows plenty of other cyclists I can speak from experience in saying that I don't jump red lights, nor do the majority of cyclists that I know.

I can also speak from experience by saying that the quicker the government actually do something to make the roads safer for all users, the better.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

I would argue that, in the majority of collisions between motorists and cyclists, it's the cyclists who come off worse. Often fatally so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i'd imagine so. And I'd also think that if a motorist seriously injured or killed a cyclist in an accidental collision that theres a strong chance that would cause some emotional problems for the driver.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/11/13 19:24:02]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Some of them seem to have a death wish"

bullshit

no cyclist has a death wish.they don't leave the house in the morning wanting to die.

every car driver speeds at some point.that puts the rest of us risk more than any cyclist does.

how many cyclist do you see texting or phoning

how many cyclists over taking on blind bends

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By *ightkitty4uWoman
over a year ago

Epsom

I'd hate to think how many cyclists I've seen jump lights over the years, and as a car driver I've nearly knocked a few off to! not through aiming at them honest

I've yelled at them to signal abide by the highway code to have abuse hurled at me!

Personally I feel every cyclist should take a test to ride on the roads in London. The cycle proficiency is good for a child riding about bringing highway code awareness to them, but I feel something should be taken when an adult riding amongst the bigger vehicles busier roads etc

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"i'd imagine so. And I'd also think that if a motorist seriously injured or killed a cyclist in an accidental collision that theres a strong chance that would cause some emotional problems for the driver."

Emotional problems aren't as permanent as death though.

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

"Some of them seem to have a death wish

bullshit

no cyclist has a death wish.they don't leave the house in the morning wanting to die.

every car driver speeds at some point.that puts the rest of us risk more than any cyclist does.

how many cyclist do you see texting or phoning

how many cyclists over taking on blind bends "

Cyclists may not a death wish but looking at the way they ride you would think they don't care one way or another.

I have seen cyclists on the phone and txting. Many people have been badly hurt crossing the road only to be hit by cyclists who have failed to stop at lights of for busy zebra crossings.

I have seen cyclists cycle round safety officers who are there to stop them being crushed by large lorries manoeuvring and then scream and shout at the lorry driver when they have gone up the inside or behind a lorry...

There are a lot of cyclists who commute daily in safety. There are also a lot of fucking idiots on bikes who risk their own safety and that of others, who then point the finger of blame at everyone but themselves...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Some of them seem to have a death wish

bullshit

no cyclist has a death wish.they don't leave the house in the morning wanting to die.

every car driver speeds at some point.that puts the rest of us risk more than any cyclist does.

how many cyclist do you see texting or phoning

how many cyclists over taking on blind bends "

See plenty riding round with no lights on and jumping up and down off the path though which is just as bad

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Car v pushbike will only have one outcome.

Knowing you had right of way when you're dead is no consolation to those you leave behind.

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By *rivate auditionsMan
over a year ago

West Midlands

Have seen no end of cars/vans jump red ligts~,its not a domain solely for cyclists you know?.

Was being driven home on motorway from work today and just wished i had a camera with me to take pics/film the nutcases in cars txt-ng and talking on mobile phones!

what a bunch of wallies!,and some idiots onn here will stick up for them i bet!,dummies!.

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By *rivate auditionsMan
over a year ago

West Midlands

"I'd hate to think how many cyclists I've seen jump lights over the years, and as a car driver I've nearly knocked a few off to! not through aiming at them honest

I've yelled at them to signal abide by the highway code to have abuse hurled at me!

I have been knocked from my bike whilst out in broad bloody daylight!,once from behind and second time from the side by a motorit who did not see the halt sign nor painted lies on the road!,personally i think motorists should have eye tests every 12 months if they want to keep a licence whether they drive in london or out in country,because eye sight is very important in both areas!.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Have seen no end of cars/vans jump red ligts~,its not a domain solely for cyclists you know?.

Was being driven home on motorway from work today and just wished i had a camera with me to take pics/film the nutcases in cars txt-ng and talking on mobile phones!

what a bunch of wallies!,and some idiots onn here will stick up for them i bet!,dummies!.

I see nobody here sticking up for them.

The fact remains, you're far more vulnerable on a bike and your safety is your responsibility.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Emotional problems aren't as permanent as death though. "

they aren't. But there should be as much done as possible to help avoid all accidents, don't you think?

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

I'm not saying car drivers are perfect. Got cutup by a wwoman on her phone. I pulled up next to her in my car and remonstrated with her about her driving whilst being on her Phone and the fact that she didn't see me and had been on her phone for a while. She replied that after turning on to the slip road from the overtaking lane (cutting me up) she had put her phone down and was looking at paper work... I pointed out that wasn't any better... Unfortunately I don't think it sunk in...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I live in Cambridge and the cyclists are very scary here, especially the students and the foreign visitors who jump lights ride the wrong way round roundabouts and have no lights

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By *amie0151Man
over a year ago

Wallasey

"As seen in the footage filmed by the LTDA.

But of course it's only a minority that break the law according to some stupid woman on the telly this morning.

WTF?"

I blame Boris

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By *am123Man
over a year ago

essex chelmsford

wheres crystal wheels when u need him

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By *icked weaselCouple
over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

To be fair - if it wasnt for cyclists - Lycra would die..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Andy mandy!!! And van drivers arnt twats? So are you saying bikers are? Knob!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I always get nervous whenever the word 'majority' is used in a thread.

As it's usually the case that a 'visible minority' are the actual subject matter.

And whilst i'm no huge fan of red light jumping, undertaking, no lights, pavement jumping cyclists - I've also clocked up several hundred thousand miles as a car driver where I've seen things that would make Jenson Button consider giving up four wheels and becoming a pedestrian.

Fabios 'arse' analogy is as useful when talking about cyclists vs car drivers asit is when discussing single guys, women and couples!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'd hate to think how many cyclists I've seen jump lights over the years, and as a car driver I've nearly knocked a few off to! not through aiming at them honest

I've yelled at them to signal abide by the highway code to have abuse hurled at me!

There's no such thing as cycling proficiency anymore, it's replacement is bikeability and it's taught to DOT guidelines

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By *ice rideMan
over a year ago

solihull

As a cyclist you are aware of what's around you more than you do sat inside your vechile with the windows shut.

The cyclist will be looking and trying to anticipate what the vehicle driver might do next to avoid getting hurt.

But it's so nice to overtake all those drivers stuck in traffic .

And yes most of us do pay road tax . We also own a vechile but prefer to leave it home and only use it when there is a need to take passenger(s)

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By *ndy_mandyCouple
over a year ago

Tredegar

"Andy mandy!!! And van drivers arnt twats? So are you saying bikers are? Knob!!"

Yes some van drivers are twats but when i was in my van as far over as i could go with a twat on a bike thinking he had the right to pass me on a single carriageway road and on a bend then its going to piss me off especially when he gave me the finger to which i reciprocated with a loud horn beep. Then when he stopped his bike at a set of lights he gave me a load of abuse to which he shit himself when i got out of the van. There are no angels on the roads whatever they are driving or riding but some mostly on 2 wheels do seem to push their luck.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/11/13 21:49:59]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cyclists and drivers are people.. Some are reckless and/or careless at times, most are sensible and reasonable most of the time...

It could be argued, perhaps, that reckless people operating cars are more dangerous than reckless people riding bikes.

Anyway, what I find most peculiar is how this sounds like an us v them debate as if the choices of how we get about affect our attitudes, instead of our attitudes being what affect how we get about..

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By *icked weaselCouple
over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

Think - Every Adult should have to sit a Test to ride a Bike - motorised or pedal powered !!!

All people on bikes should be made to wear helmets !!! that should be law..

We Should all have to go through a yearly MOT and have to display a Tax disc and Have Insurance... even if the tax-disc is free (due to emissions) its only fair

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"Andy mandy!!! And van drivers arnt twats? So are you saying bikers are? Knob!!"

Woah! Personal abuse should be kept out of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Think - Every Adult should have to sit a Test to ride a Bike - motorised or pedal powered !!!

All people on bikes should be made to wear helmets !!! that should be law..

We Should all have to go through a yearly MOT and have to display a Tax disc and Have Insurance... even if the tax-disc is free (due to emissions) its only fair

just incase the bike has an hidden engine in the tubes???

its pretty obvious that a bike is zero emmissions

its not cancelleras famed bike

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

The cyclist will be looking and trying to anticipate what the vehicle driver might do next to avoid getting hurt.

"
when the vast majority i see never llok around before they wobble out to pass a parked car etc and just how aware of anything can a cyclist with headphones in be see it all the time with the idiot students in manchester

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

cyclist once pulled out on me on my bike out of a side road, honest to god looked me in the eye then just went, swung way too far out (well into the middle of the lane) for it to even be ok for both of us to be going by.

braked like a nutter an got the back wheel up for a second, I'm still not sure if this was justified but i punched him in the back of his helmet as i went past

Sadly he didn't fall off

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By *icked weaselCouple
over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

"Think - Every Adult should have to sit a Test to ride a Bike - motorised or pedal powered !!!

All people on bikes should be made to wear helmets !!! that should be law..

We Should all have to go through a yearly MOT and have to display a Tax disc and Have Insurance... even if the tax-disc is free (due to emissions) its only fair

just incase the bike has an hidden engine in the tubes???

its pretty obvious that a bike is zero emmissions

its not cancelleras famed bike"

Yep.. every bike should be pulled over and tested for Emissions from the seat areas - and then tax,mot,and insurance !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As seen in the footage filmed by the LTDA.

But of course it's only a minority that break the law according to some stupid woman on the telly this morning.

WTF?"
NO WE DON'T

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By *icked weaselCouple
over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

and Lycra..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

First of all its the single men, then couples, then single women, then bi sexuals, and now your having a go at cyclists,

what next, people who breath?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"First of all its the single men, then couples, then single women, then bi sexuals, and now your having a go at cyclists,

what next, people who breath?"
WHAT ARE U LIKE

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Remember somebody on telly saying years ago that once we step into a car we all turn into twats and it's pretty much correct.

Pedestrians have priority on roads (they don't have to pay tax either), cyclists, horses etc next. But in our cars we all seem to think we own the road and nobody has the right to get in our way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Remember somebody on telly saying years ago that once we step into a car we all turn into twats and it's pretty much correct.

"once we step into this world we all turn into twats"

fixed :p

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah And cycling on the pavement and nearly knocking me over. And we are supposed to get upset when one of the selfish ignorant morons get killed through their own stupidity

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By *ndy_mandyCouple
over a year ago

Tredegar

I bet Santa doesnt pay road tax or is insured, bloody muppet

I will be good next year Santa. Promise

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Every time these anti cycling posts come up there is always some shit anecdote about a cyclist been silly.

how many times did that risk your life in your car.

i don't cycle alot and i have had numerous near misses and always stick to the rules.

i used to drive artics and those same car drivers would shake with fear if you got too close.its the same thing.

i drive cycles cars and trucks.it is my duty to ensure the more vulnerable are safe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Some of them seem to have a death wish

bullshit

no cyclist has a death wish.they don't leave the house in the morning wanting to die.

every car driver speeds at some point.that puts the rest of us risk more than any cyclist does.

how many cyclist do you see texting or phoning

how many cyclists over taking on blind bends "

ive seen many cyclists on their phones and way too many over or under taking as if its some right cos they are on 2 wheels with no thought of the dangr

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

That LTDA vid is quite subjectively edited. The unedited footage shows 91% of cyclists at those junctions obeying the lights, but that doesn't fit the stereotype does it?

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

I am really fed up with the way folk these days are not happy unless they have some group to abuse and blame to make themselves feel superior, weather it's cyclists, motorcyclists, horse riders, lorry drivers, van drivers, car drivers, school run mums, single men, couples.......

There seems to be a lot of bitter people about these days which is such a shame.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As seen in the footage filmed by the LTDA.

But of course it's only a minority that break the law according to some stupid woman on the telly this morning.

WTF?"

A lot do but I would say far more don't or they don't round here as most are bright enough to know they could get knocked off. Maybe the cyclists this way are brighter.

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"Yeah And cycling on the pavement and nearly knocking me over. And we are supposed to get upset when one of the selfish ignorant morons get killed through their own stupidity"

I can understand why cyclists ride on the pavements when you see the attitude of drivers expressed on threads like this.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

A story.

This very morning at 07:30 i was on my bike, stopped at a red light on the third lane/right hand turn junction of a 40mph dual carriageway.

I was wearing hi-viz, reflective straps and had two separate flashing red lights.

Without warning i heard a squeal of tyres, and a small van appeared right next to my left leg, braking hard - this vehicle is touching me remember - it is halfway into the middle of three lanes and has its front end over the stop line.

I shouted "what the **** are you doing?"

The driver wound down his window and said..

"its OK, i saw you just in time".

I was obeying the rules, lit up as required and STILL this idiot could not be bothered to actually look where he was piloting a ton and a half of metal. He sneeringly dismissed my terror with the idea that he (just) missed me, so what was the problem?

I lost my temper - he lost his offside wing mirror.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The majority of cyclists I know don't jump red lights, saying that I do notice a lot of cyclist jumping red lights in brighton.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A story.

This very morning at 07:30 i was on my bike, stopped at a red light on the third lane/right hand turn junction of a 40mph dual carriageway.

I was wearing hi-viz, reflective straps and had two separate flashing red lights.

I shouted "what the **** are you doing?"

The driver wound down his window and said..

"its OK, i saw you just in time".

I lost my temper - he lost his offside wing mirror.

good girl. idiots need to learn that their stupidity costs mirrors.

although brave to do it o na push bike since you can't really run away from them that easy.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

I tend to get upset when people try to kill me through their dangerous driving. If that driver had rear ended me i would have been smashed into the middle of a very busy junction.

Then you get the clowns on various internet sites whipping up hatreds and fuelling the idiots who think its acceptable to intimidate and hurt someone because they are on a bicycle.

I'm fucking fed up with it and I'm not standing for it any more, put my life at risk and i will retaliate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yeah And cycling on the pavement and nearly knocking me over. And we are supposed to get upset when one of the selfish ignorant morons get killed through their own stupidity"

Have fun having another wank on youre own mate

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

PS - i did offer to 'discuss' it with the driver if he would care to step out of his vehicle - for some reason he drove away, minus a wing mirror.

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By *kywatcherMan
over a year ago

Southwick

Glad to say I'm in the minority.

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By *nfieldishCouple
over a year ago

Enfield

Read this thread and substitute the word "cyclist" for "fellow human"

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"Read this thread and substitute the word "cyclist" for "fellow human""

cyclists aren't human, they are 'lycra louts' 'tax dodging freeloaders' 'red light jumpers' etc.

seen as filth by the Clarkson-worshipping clowns,who have pathetic little agendas like the OP of this thread .

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

"Read this thread and substitute the word "cyclist" for "fellow human""

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By *teveanddebs OP Couple
over a year ago

Norwich

"I always get nervous whenever the word 'majority' is used in a thread.

As it's usually the case that a 'visible minority' are the actual subject matter.

Well in this case it means what it says. Two junctions were filmed and 194 out of 364 cyclists jumped the lights.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Read this thread and substitute the word "cyclist" for "fellow human"

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By *teveanddebs OP Couple
over a year ago

Norwich

"That LTDA vid is quite subjectively edited. The unedited footage shows 91% of cyclists at those junctions obeying the lights, but that doesn't fit the stereotype does it?"

"LTDA general secretary Steve McNamara said two hour-long versions of the footage were available “ 100 per cent unedited” on YouTube."

Is he lying then?

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

Read this article before jumping to conclusions/agreeing with the LTDA

http://road.cc/content/news/99885-london-taxi-drivers-claim-film-shows-most-cyclist-jump-red-lights-does-it

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"That LTDA vid is quite subjectively edited. The unedited footage shows 91% of cyclists at those junctions obeying the lights, but that doesn't fit the stereotype does it?

"LTDA general secretary Steve McNamara said two hour-long versions of the footage were available “ 100 per cent unedited” on YouTube."

Is he lying then?"

see my link.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I tend to get upset when people try to kill me through their dangerous driving. If that driver had rear ended me i would have been smashed into the middle of a very busy junction.

Then you get the clowns on various internet sites whipping up hatreds and fuelling the idiots who think its acceptable to intimidate and hurt someone because they are on a bicycle.

I'm fucking fed up with it and I'm not standing for it any more, put my life at risk and i will retaliate."

Yep, even on a motorbike with headlights, indicators and a very very lots exhaust car drivers not paying attention usually results in at least one near miss a ride, fortunately you do develop a good sense of when one of them is about to try and murder you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's ridiculous to say the majority of cyclists jump read lights. Given the amount of cyclists on the road I'd suggest this isn't true and impossible to prove in any case.

You get some idiots no doubt and I've had one or two run ins myself but have had just as many when I'm on the bike with idiotic drivers.

You get bad cyclists the same as you get bad motorists.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Some of them seem to have a death wish

bullshit

no cyclist has a death wish.they don't leave the house in the morning wanting to die.

every car driver speeds at some point.that puts the rest of us risk more than any cyclist does.

how many cyclist do you see texting or phoning

how many cyclists over taking on blind bends

Cyclists may not a death wish but looking at the way they ride you would think they don't care one way or another.

I have seen cyclists on the phone and txting. Many people have been badly hurt crossing the road only to be hit by cyclists who have failed to stop at lights of for busy zebra crossings.

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By *lentyoffun40Couple
over a year ago

Lancashire

When they start to pay road tax .. Then cyclists can moan

Until then get on with it !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lots of cyclists try to jump lights at the start of a sequence because it's safer at a junction to be ahead of the traffic approaching/turning left. Unfortunately drivers are more likely to jump the light sequence at the end of a red and that puts both in danger of collision. A way to avoid it would be a Green for cyclists 15 seconds before for motors or better still an understanding at any junction cyclists should clear the junction before motors move. Then there's no excuse for cyclists to jump the light and everyone gets home in one piece.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I only had to browse this thread for a second before the mention of the non-existent and mythical 'road tax'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Typical of British drivers moaning about cyclists , here on the continent there is a hell of alot more respect from the motorist towards cyclists.

Being a 4x4 driver a cyclist and a motor bike rider I know its all about respecting each other on the roads.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's an element of psychology in this too I think, I personally watch cyclists intently to make sure they don't do anything silly/mad that puts them under my wheels so I'm always waiting for them to prove the "cyclist death wish theory". If I look at the amount of cyclist I encounter day-by-day on the roads I'd estimate 99 times out of a 100 they're perfectly safe and taking no risks, just as a driver it's better to assume they will do something daft so you can be ready to avoid it.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"I only had to browse this thread for a second before the mention of the non-existent and mythical 'road tax'

There is always one who demonstrates the rhetoric of the hard of thinking

Its like i said before, its classic dehumanizing technique, reduce them to objects and the common standards of civilized behavior no longer apply.

The cretins know full well their pathetic straw man 'argument' is a fallacious one but they just can't help repeating it in the moronic hope that it may one day be true.

These are the people who are utterly, contemptuously and sneeringly dismissive of mine and others safety when on the roads - their ridiculous belief giving them the crutch needed to drive too close, to attempt illegal overtakes, to ignore traffic safety measures like Advanced Stop Lines - all because people like me don't count and aren't really people.

And I've had enough. Someone came very very close to killing me yesterday because of that prevailing attitude that driving a ton and a half of metal isn't the most important thing to be concentrating on when behind the wheel.

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By *teveanddebs OP Couple
over a year ago

Norwich

"That LTDA vid is quite subjectively edited. The unedited footage shows 91% of cyclists at those junctions obeying the lights, but that doesn't fit the stereotype does it?

"LTDA general secretary Steve McNamara said two hour-long versions of the footage were available “ 100 per cent unedited” on YouTube."

Is he lying then?

see my link."

Sorry but that article seems to be a triumph of spin over substance.

"The risk of a collision from riding through the red light here is negligible. These riders may be breaking the rules, but it’s arguable that they’re doing anything dangerous."

So in other words the rules don't apply to them, which is, I'd say, the whole argument and what causes a lot of accidents with push bikes.

If cyclists followed one simple rule, and stopped overtaking on the wrong side, a lot of accidents with lorries simply wouldn't happen.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

On that i would agree, whilst we are at it can we stop motorists of all types committing 'left hooks' and overtaking then immediately turning left in defiance of the law? Its the single biggest killer of cyclists because motorists either cant judge speed and distance or don't care about the outcome of their manoeuvre.

The LTDA video and claims are just as subjective as you claim that article to be.

The Sunday Times recently surveyed 6 separate junctions - two each in London, Birmingham and Manchester.

The junction with the highest percentage of cycling red light jumpers was in Manchester, with 10% of cyclists crossing on red.

That means a minimum of 90% of cyclists at the junctions observed obeyed the law.

Given who the LTDA are I'm very suspicious of their motives and techniques for gathering info.

I do not condone illegal road behaviour from anyone, yet once again people like you attempt to blame cyclists and therefore shift the focus from getting rid of the things that are causing deaths on our roads - poor driving standards, aggressive behaviour, poor road design and yes, poor cycling standards.

I do notice however that cyclists are held to different standards than motorists in that all cyclists are held to be responsible for the actions of a minority yet drivers are not held to be responsible for the actions of their compatriots. Again, double standards and hypocrisy.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"That LTDA vid is quite subjectively edited. The unedited footage shows 91% of cyclists at those junctions obeying the lights, but that doesn't fit the stereotype does it?

"LTDA general secretary Steve McNamara said two hour-long versions of the footage were available “ 100 per cent unedited” on YouTube."

Is he lying then?

see my link.

Sorry but that article seems to be a triumph of spin over substance.

"The risk of a collision from riding through the red light here is negligible. These riders may be breaking the rules, but it’s arguable that they’re doing anything dangerous."

So in other words the rules don't apply to them, which is, I'd say, the whole argument and what causes a lot of accidents with push bikes.

If cyclists followed one simple rule, and stopped overtaking on the wrong side, a lot of accidents with lorries simply wouldn't happen."

"Stop overtaking in the wrong side"

When highways engineers put cycle lanes down the left hand side, when Advanced Stop Line boxes can only be legally entered from the left hand lane and lead cyclists into the very danger areas?

Safety features that are exactly the opposite yet we still hear drivers screaming from their vehicles"use the fucking cycle lane!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a cyclist from time to time I would jump a red light on a pedestrian crossing if it was safe but at an intersection it's a bit silly!

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

I never jump lights for several reasons.

Firstly its the law, i expect others to obey for my safety so the opposite applies.

Safety - you can never predict what is around.

Thirdly, and this is just to amuse myself - it appears to upset some drivers when i stop at the line and take up the space i am legally entitled to, it amuses me to see their slow, choleric red faces look puzzled.

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By *teveanddebs OP Couple
over a year ago

Norwich

"On that i would agree, whilst we are at it can we stop motorists of all types committing 'left hooks' and overtaking then immediately turning left in defiance of the law? Its the single biggest killer of cyclists because motorists either cant judge speed and distance or don't care about the outcome of their manoeuvre.

The LTDA video and claims are just as subjective as you claim that article to be.

The Sunday Times recently surveyed 6 separate junctions - two each in London, Birmingham and Manchester.

The junction with the highest percentage of cycling red light jumpers was in Manchester, with 10% of cyclists crossing on red.

That means a minimum of 90% of cyclists at the junctions observed obeyed the law.

Given who the LTDA are I'm very suspicious of their motives and techniques for gathering info.

People like me? What people that have driven/ridden lorries, vans, cars, motorcycles and push bikes in London as a job for years? I agree that the cycle lanes are stupidly situated on the left at junctions but common sense should tell any cyclist that if they can't get past a lorry/van that is indicating left and into a safe position then wait at the back of it (I'm not talking about filtering through stationary traffic, just getting blocked in a dangerous situation) and that applies to motorbikes as well.

TBH I'm sick of hearing the fuckwits on the telly spouting on about banning lorries from the roads in London during the day, they are already banned at night so when do they expect the shops to get their deliveries?

IME cars are the worst in London. Closely followed by the Friday (but only when it's sunny) born again bikers.

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By *teveanddebs OP Couple
over a year ago

Norwich

I'd just like to add busses to that list.

One days time London bus drivers were some of the most professional drivers in the world. Sadly that isn't the case anymore. Now they are just clippies with a go/stop pedal.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

Its not the experienced cyclists getting killed is it?

Its the average Joe commuter who gets a bike and thinks that because a bit of road is painted blue then that's where he should be, even though experience tells us that's often the most dangerous point.

To be fair, it does seem that London is a special case where every road user is an udiot - at least from media reports.

Up here in the sticks i have seen two cyclists in the last two months jump a red - both got a loud 'wanker' from me. I see cars jumping lights every single day, at every single junction on my commute - it does seem that red is only red once its been there for 5 seconds. One particular junction i regularly have cars coming through my line of travel once ive set off from the lights, its as though the lights aren't there. This is a large, 4-way dual carriageway junction BTW.

Sorry if i came across as harsh, I'm fed up of being marginalised as less than worthless because i choose to ride bikes.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

At the fear of repeating myself, just consider that in any collision between a cyclist and motorist, the cyclist will always come off worse. Motorists may say that if someone rides stupidly it scares them but being cocooned in a tin can means you are not likely to be killed by that cyclist.

Yes I have seen cyclists do some mind-bogglingly stupid things. And equally I have seen the same from motorists. We all have a duty of care towards more vulnerable road users.

And the only road users who actually have 'right of way' are pedestrians. At the most other road users may have 'priority', not 'right of way'. Seems a petty point but actually important as some seem to think that they have 'right of way' and so, somehow, have more rights.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"At the fear of repeating myself, just consider that in any collision between a cyclist and motorist, the cyclist will always come off worse. Motorists may say that if someone rides stupidly it scares them but being cocooned in a tin can means you are not likely to be killed by that cyclist.

Yes I have seen cyclists do some mind-bogglingly stupid things. And equally I have seen the same from motorists. We all have a duty of care towards more vulnerable road users.

well said.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

It gets worse.

Just had a tweet from Carlton Reid the cycling journalist.

A woman runs into the back of a cyclist, drives over his bike then tells him "youdon't pay road tax".

THAT is the end result of propagating the lie about road tax, you give cretins the idea it is acceptable to injure people and damage property because 'they have no rights'

fucking stop it people.

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By *kywatcherMan
over a year ago

Southwick

"It gets worse.

Just had a tweet from Carlton Reid the cycling journalist.

A woman runs into the back of a cyclist, drives over his bike then tells him "youdon't pay road tax".

THAT is the end result of propagating the lie about road tax, you give cretins the idea it is acceptable to injure people and damage property because 'they have no rights'

fucking stop it people."

Can't agree more....I was cycling though Portslade one day when a car came steaming out of a junction to my right cutting me up and with no consideration for me. When I did a "calm down" gesture with my hand....the very fat and loud woman passenger wound down the window and shouted "get some road tax"...unbelievable!!

I drive and cycle. .left me speechless.

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By *highbootMan
over a year ago

margate

In my area cyclists also use the pavements as though they are cycling on the road and it is nothing to be walking along the pavement just minding your own business and looking where you are going when (without out ANY WARNING) a cyclist will fly by you at about 10 to 15 miles per hour and comes so close they brush against you and just about miss you , because I am elderly I do not always walk in a straight line and could quite easily be knocked over by a cyclist ....and that's ON THE PAVEMENT .

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By *kywatcherMan
over a year ago

Southwick

"In my area cyclists also use the pavements as though they are cycling on the road and it is nothing to be walking along the pavement just minding your own business and looking where you are going when (without out ANY WARNING) a cyclist will fly by you at about 10 to 15 miles per hour and comes so close they brush against you and just about miss you , because I am elderly I do not always walk in a straight line and could quite easily be knocked over by a cyclist ....and that's ON THE PAVEMENT ."

It's also illegal....

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"It gets worse.

Just had a tweet from Carlton Reid the cycling journalist.

A woman runs into the back of a cyclist, drives over his bike then tells him "youdon't pay road tax".

THAT is the end result of propagating the lie about road tax, you give cretins the idea it is acceptable to injure people and damage property because 'they have no rights'

fucking stop it people."

Kind of proves my point. Some people think they have more rights than others.

They are wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think people need to look at the source of this video. The history of animosity between London cyclists and London cab drivers cannot be underestimated. Both sides have a tendency to hold the other in complete contempt based on the actions of a not inconsiderable minority.

Not so long ago London Cyclists organised a concerted boycott Addison Lee campaign, this may well be payback.

It would take little effort to compile a video of taxi's ignoring ASLs or using bike lanes as drop off/pick up points. There is a huge level of hypocrisy in LTDA bemoaning others for what they perceive to be selfish and/or dangerous road use.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's also illegal....

I worked as a litter picker which ment walking along the pavement and having to change direction suddenly. I lost count of the times a cyclist would be going full pelt nearly hit me and then shout abuse at me for getting in their way simply because I was trying to do my job.

Also by the A4 there is a perfectly useable well maintained cycle path. Yet I am amazed how many cyclists ignore it and elect to use a three lane road with a 40mph speed limit and force drivers onto the other lane to get past them holding up traffic and endangering others.

I do get the impression that many cyclists seem to think that their safety is for others to worry about and take action on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

there a difference between a cyclist and someone riding a bike, as a rule a cyclist will abide by the laws of the road, someone just out riding a bike will do what gets them from A to B the quickest

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Check out silly cyclists on YouTube.

Or I think cyclegaz is the YouTube account holder.

He's a commuter in central London who has cameras all over his bike, and films the stupid things cyclists and drivers do, some really funny and confrontational moments in the clips, he puts the reg plate of the vehicle on YouTube with the clip so the driver can see it.

There's hundreds of vids he's filmed

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

I drive almost daily in London. Bus and cab drivers seem to think that red lights don't apply to them. When you get to a set of lights you end up with 5 lanes of traffic on a 2 lane road. You have cyclist, car, cyclist, car, cyclist. This to me doesn't seem like a good idea. Fragile human bodies between 2 cars. At rush hour there are hundreds of cars, bikes

and cyclists fighting for the same bit of road.

I used to cycle through London but it's too dangerous. I was cut up by cabs and buses and nearly knocked off by other cyclists who were behind me when I stopped for lights that they had no intention of stopping at...

Everyone in London needs to improve their road safety, including pedestrians...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They should look at how many women 'jump red lights' driving with kids in the back of car. Theres loads!

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

It's also illegal....

I do get the impression that many cyclists seem to think that their safety is for others to worry about and take action on."

Probably because its practically impossible to make a right turn when using such a lane. Highways engineers tend to treat cyclists as some sort of inferior pedestrian, expecting them to get off and use pedestrian walkways whenever they need to turn.

Cyclists are traffic and belong on the road, if the provisions are dangerous and/or impractical they wont use them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Passing on the left is one of the most dangerous things for a cyclist to do, it's where the blind spot is

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"Passing on the left is one of the most dangerous things for a cyclist to do, it's where the blind spot is"

Please tell that to the engineers who design roads where cycle lanes demand such manoeuvres, and please tell the motorists who scream abuse when we refuse to use them.

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By *rivate auditionsMan
over a year ago

West Midlands

It's also illegal....

You say it is illegal but so is a lot of the stuff i see car drivers and truckers do to the other road users!

where i have been recently working nr heathrow airport the roads are terrible with bad practices from motorists that the police on cycles from the main bath road police station use the footpaths to get around there so if its good enough for them i will use it too and i reccomend other cyclitst do too!.

roads are far to dangerous with venomous motorists foul mouthing us and trying to knock us off our bikes.

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By *kywatcherMan
over a year ago

Southwick

It's also illegal....

You say it is illegal but so is a lot of the stuff i see car drivers and truckers do to the other road users!

roads are far to dangerous with venomous motorists foul mouthing us and trying to knock us off our bikes. "

I'm not saying it's illegal it's the law:

"64

You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & R(S)A 1984, sect 129"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In my experience cyclists and I don't mean men on racer bikes in Lycra shorts who are serious about it generally pavement hop, go through lights when possible and skip between traffic to get to where they are going! Prefer off-road cycling personally sp lights traffic and pedestrians not a problem lol

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"In my experience cyclists and I don't mean men on racer bikes in Lycra shorts who are serious about it generally pavement hop, go through lights when possible and skip between traffic to get to where they are going! Prefer off-road cycling personally sp lights traffic and pedestrians not a problem lol "

I ride to work in jeans on a cheap(ish-£300) singlespeed, still obey the road rules though.

I have no time for those who break the rules but its not even a majority nationwide - although Londoners may say different.

Can we PLEASE stop lumping all cyclists as one homogeneous group? Its ad ridiculous as saying all car owners are chavs in souped up Nova's.

I'm responsible for my actions and mine alone, don't tell me I'm the same as another person.

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By *andyblokeMan
over a year ago

birmingham

well said!! i get fedup with the minority of people who some how think cyclist never drive a car..that they are somehow a sub species of the planet.. Not so 98% of cyclists are pedestrians and motorists too. they also pay tax just like other road users. Why not seek out how to share the roads together rather than shout at each other after all i tonne of steel (car) can do a lot of damage to a human being.

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By *wingerdelightCouple
over a year ago

eastliegh

"Read this thread and substitute the word "cyclist" for "fellow human"

cyclists aren't human, they are 'lycra louts' 'tax dodging freeloaders' 'red light jumpers' etc.

seen as filth by the Clarkson-worshipping clowns,who have pathetic little agendas like the OP of this thread ."
and they damage cars Aswell asyou just said. And you wwander why cycles have a bad name

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"Read this thread and substitute the word "cyclist" for "fellow human"

cyclists aren't human, they are 'lycra louts' 'tax dodging freeloaders' 'red light jumpers' etc.

seen as filth by the Clarkson-worshipping clowns,who have pathetic little agendas like the OP of this thread .and they damage cars Aswell asyou just said. And you wwander why cycles have a bad name"

..and of course in this vehicle - centric Clarksonworld of yours a car is worth so much more than the life or health of a human being

Case in point, cyclists are less than human.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well said!! i get fedup with the minority of people who some how think cyclist never drive a car..that they are somehow a sub species of the planet.. Not so 98% of cyclists are pedestrians and motorists too. they also pay tax just like other road users. Why not seek out how to share the roads together rather than shout at each other after all i tonne of steel (car) can do a lot of damage to a human being."

Only 98% of cyclists are pedestrians?

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By *wingerdelightCouple
over a year ago

eastliegh

"Read this thread and substitute the word "cyclist" for "fellow human"

cyclists aren't human, they are 'lycra louts' 'tax dodging freeloaders' 'red light jumpers' etc.

seen as filth by the Clarkson-worshipping clowns,who have pathetic little agendas like the OP of this thread .and they damage cars Aswell asyou just said. And you wwander why cycles have a bad name

..and of course in this vehicle - centric Clarksonworld of yours a car is worth so much more than the life or health of a human being

Case in point, cyclists are less than human."
I never said that. But knocking the guys mirror off doesn't help your case. Intact it will make motorists hate you more. There are good cyclists and bad and good drivers and bad. But drivers have atleast taken a test. And we only have your side of the story. You may well be in the right. But knocking his mirror off is unacceptable behavior. You were not harmed so why should you harm him or his car. This is why cyclists have such a bad name. Ps I'm a car driver and a motorcycle rider and a cyclist so can see all sides

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

Stand where i was yesterday and see how you felt - and how you would react.

It wasn't clever and I'm not proud of it - in fact i called the police yesterday afternoon to report the road rage. The driver did not report the incident, what does that tell you?

I'm absolutely fed up with being seen as a piece of rubbish on the streets, ive had enough of drivers who think its acceptable to intimidate and abuse me. Ive had enough of sub Daily Mail types on internet forums trolling rubbish and I've had enough of media sensationalism whipping up hatred.

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By *wingerdelightCouple
over a year ago

eastliegh

"Stand where i was yesterday and see how you felt - and how you would react.

It wasn't clever and I'm not proud of it - in fact i called the police yesterday afternoon to report the road rage. The driver did not report the incident, what does that tell you?

"
what part of my post makes me a daily mail reader. The driver was in the wrong but no harm was done but your over reaction. Although understandable was also wrong

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

Not you personally, however there are plenty who believe/post the sort of inflammatory drivel found in the DM website whenever cycling is mentioned.

If someone said those things about gay people or black people they would rightly be pulled up about it, but its fair game to say that cyclists are scum etc.

Its pissing me off to be quite frank and yesterday brought it home to me how little i count on the road.

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By *wingerdelightCouple
over a year ago

eastliegh

"Not you personally, however there are plenty who believe/post the sort of inflammatory drivel found in the DM website whenever cycling is mentioned.

If someone said those things about gay people or black people they would rightly be pulled up about it, but its fair game to say that cyclists are scum etc.

Its pissing me off to be quite frank and yesterday brought it home to me how little i count on the road."
the problem is that you are the most insignificant person on the road when on a bike. And a lot of drivers have never been on a bike so have no idea how intimidating a car can be. I have always thought that before you get a car license you should spend a year on a bike then avyear on a motorbike. Before you can take a car test.

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By *reelove1969Couple
over a year ago

bristol

agree alot of motorists would drive with alot more consideration if they had witnessed the perils of cycling ...some motorists whizz past you with about an inch to spare ...it can be a very hair raising experience !!

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

My father has always claimed that you should spend 2yrs on a motorbike before getting a car license.

Its not simply poor driving though, its the sense of self entitlement that permeates our society. Pair that with a tonne or more of vehicle and you have a recipe for mayhem

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes I have seen cyclists do some mind-bogglingly stupid things. And equally I have seen the same from motorists. We all have a duty of care towards more vulnerable road users.

true but so many need to take more responsibility for their own safety too rather than just think.. oh well im the vulnerable one so the car has to look out for me.

drive and cycle as if everyone is about to do something dangerous.

remember also its not about getting from a to b as fast as you can but as safe as you can. One way systems slow down motorists and following a cycle path.. ie using a pedestrian crossing to turn.. slows down cyclists but its all there for safety, the no1 priority

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

But what happens when - as in London - the cycle lanes actually make the cyclist far more likely to be injured because of the terrible design? When a cycle lane doesn't go where you need it to go but repeatedly stop/starts and sends you out of your way to avoid putting motorists out?

When the cycle lane is simply a parking zone for every tom dick and harry, when the cycle lanes are overgrown and full of detritus that cause damage?

Those are just some reasons why cycle lanes are often not just ignored but a really bad idea.

It is often safer and more practical to use the road like ANY OTHER VEHICLE despite what some motorists shout out of their open windows.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

Have a look at these :-

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/gallery/2009/nov/05/readers-worst-cycle-lanes?index=1

The one with the bus is a case in point, the cycle lane sends people into the very blind spot of the bus. It is this sort of dangerous road design that keeps me out of cycle lanes in urban areas, it is simply far safer to take the lane like any other vehicle - and in urban areas i can be just as fast as a car.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

It doesn't seem that the design makes a lot of difference.

A brand new multi million £ Copenhagen standard cyclepath in central Glasgow is seldom used...... whilst the surrounding pavements attract cyclists like flies round smelly stuff.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm a cyclist who never jumps red lights and for the record, research shows that motorists drive less carefully around cyclists that are wearing protection than those without, so everyone's a wanker, n'est-ce pas?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cycle lanes here are in good condition as there are no heavy vehicles that use them.

out of your way? As i said its about safety not speed. Again with the stop starting. Safety not speed.

if its not safe to go on the inside of a bus.. then dont. Overtake once the bus is in a stop. Again safety not speed.

parked in the cycle lane? Safely overtake.. we all get these hazords on the road. Again safety not speed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh and going as fast as vehicles in urban areas doesnt make it the safest way to use the road.

safety not speed goes for ALL road users

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"It doesn't seem that the design makes a lot of difference.

A brand new multi million £ Copenhagen standard cyclepath in central Glasgow is seldom used...... whilst the surrounding pavements attract cyclists like flies round smelly stuff."

Is it fit for purpose though? (i haven't seen it)

does it take people where they need to be? Does it stop/start and demand that cyclists dismount at every junction?

If so, people wont use it. You can spend £££££ on the infrastructure but if it doesn't fulfil its intention then its useless - the Edinburgh tram debacle is a good example.

Too often local authority engineers try to treat cyclists as some form of pedestrian and it nearly always fails because cyclists are vehicles, they are traffic.

If the Local Authority spent £20 billion on a shiny, 4 lane highway that went nowhere useful, had stop signs every 300yrds and was completely contradictory would you use it to try to get to work or would you use the pre-existing network?

That is often the reality of cycle path provision unfortunately.

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By *odareyouMan
over a year ago

not far from iceland,,,,,, tescos is nearer though :-) (near leeds)

Our roads are very congested, we re a small island,,, the road s should be used in accordance with the appropriate laws and conditions by all users

Take responsibility for your own safety and that of others, you can only control your actions not those of others,

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"Cycle lanes here are in good condition as there are no heavy vehicles that use them.

out of your way? As i said its about safety not speed. Again with the stop starting. Safety not speed.

if its not safe to go on the inside of a bus.. then dont. Overtake once the bus is in a stop. Again safety not speed.

parked in the cycle lane? Safely overtake.. we all get these hazords on the road. Again safety not speed.

You miss the point, if vehicles are parked in the cycle lane you can't use them safely at all. Constantly popping in and out of a stream of traffic is dangerous for all. It is much safer to be in the traffic stream, in the drivers eyeline and maintaining progress with the rest of the traffic. Its very easy to keep up with motorised traffic in an urban environment, most vehicles cannot get above 20mph and that is easily achievable for a cyclist.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

It was designed by the folk at Sustrans.

Copenhagen cyclepaths are the 'gold standard' and specify all aspects of the layout, furniture and interface with other road users. Things like lane width, distance from other traffic, size and type of curbs and barriers, Toucan crossings, dedicated filter traffic lights for cyclists etc.

It runs from the biggest mainline railway station to the biggest University.

It has everything a cyclepath could possibly want, except cyclists.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"It was designed by the folk at Sustrans.

It runs from the biggest mainline railway station to the biggest University.

It has everything a cyclepath could possibly want, except cyclists."

It sounds like a decent bit of design but as ive never ridden it i can't really comment on how useable/useful it actually is. We have some cyclepaths round here that are laughable in their lack of actual design and forethought, just a box ticking exercise for the local authority so they keep their funding from Central Govt.

To be fair, the worst cycling i often see is around universities though.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Googling Connect2 Glasgow and following the links on Glasgow.gov will make things clearer.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

Had a quick look at the site but as I'm on my phone i cant get a proper full on view, not to say it isn't a good system of course!

Does it route cyclists through pedestrianised areas by any chance?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Had a quick look at the site but as I'm on my phone i cant get a proper full on view, not to say it isn't a good system of course!

Does it route cyclists through pedestrianised areas by any chance? "

Not that I've seen. It shares a bridge across the M8 motorway with pedestrians, and wheelchair users from a nearby sheltered housing complex but to my knowledge the rest is dedicated cyclists only.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"Had a quick look at the site but as I'm on my phone i cant get a proper full on view, not to say it isn't a good system of course!

Does it route cyclists through pedestrianised areas by any chance?

Not that I've seen. It shares a bridge across the M8 motorway with pedestrians, and wheelchair users from a nearby sheltered housing complex but to my knowledge the rest is dedicated cyclists only.

Ive no idea why it doesn't get used, need a Glasgow-based commuter for that i suppose. Certainly if i had such i'd use it rather than the 40mph dual carriageway i currently have to negotiate.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

A fairly high ranking member of Glasgow's cycling community says cyclists don't use it cos they don't like being told where to ride.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"A fairly high ranking member of Glasgow's cycling community says cyclists don't use it cos they don't like being told where to ride."

There is a school of thought that says as cyclists have a right to use the roads then they should, and that allowing themselves to be segregated is the thin end of a wedge that will finish with cyclists not allowed on the roads at all.

Whilst i'm sympathetic to that idea it's not one i entirely agree with as cycles aren't going to be banned from the roads really. I suspect its more that some motorists now think that as there is a cycle system then cycles shouldn't be on the road at all & then get aggressive etc. I have had this hurled at me from a car window so i know those thought patterns exist.

I will use a cycle system if it takes me where i want to go, is safe and practical for me and more vulnerable users like pedestrians.

I wont use one if its a shared use path as its slow for me and dangerous for pedestrians. I won't use one if i'm on my road bike because they are designed for commuters not fast paced road bikes doing over 20mph - they belong on the road with other vehicles.

Its about understanding what you want/where you want to go and how you are doing it. Cycle lanes 'can' (if well designed) be a boon to the commuting cyclist but they are of no use to the road riders who are moving much faster and not generally heading towards the urban work zones.

Most road riders will be heading out of the urban areas into the countryside where cycle lanes tend not to exist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't use cycle paths as I put pedestrians at risk, imagine the damage caused by me hitting a person at 20 to 30 Mph.

Don't forget drivers have a number plate and can be traced......

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"I don't use cycle paths as I put pedestrians at risk, imagine the damage caused by me hitting a person at 20 to 30 Mph.

Don't forget drivers have a number plate and can be traced......"

Thats my thought, cycles and pedestrians just don't mix. You wouldn't dream of routing a car lane through a pedestrian area at 30mph would you?

There is a road near me that drops down a hill to a large bridge over a valley before rising up the other side. Its a 30mph zone and i can very easily hit that on the bike going downhill, i go up the other side at 20mph.

At the bridge a cycle lane has been added, it asks cyclists to swerve onto the pedestrian area at ~30mph before spitting those cyclists back out into the roadway where the motorists aren't always expecting them.

Its a complete deathtrap for all concerned, a bike doing ~30pmh into pedestrians doesn't bear thinking about and a car doing the same to a cyclist suddenly appearing out of a sidelane will have a similar result - its complete stupidity on the part of the planners.

I ignore it and go straight over the bridge on the road - far, far safer for me and everyone else but ive no doubt there is a driver somewhere complaining about me as they have no understanding of the risk calculations involved.

Ultimately as a cyclist i am a vehicle and should be on the road, not mixed up with foot traffic.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

This is not designed to be a replacement for a Sunday ride up the Rest and Be Thankful or round the Three Lochs.

It's a commuter path, designed to take some of the car traffic and parking issues out of the city centre - at not inconsiderable expense - and it's not being used.

The next time the cycling lobby ask for ........... they may not get it.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"This is not designed to be a replacement for a Sunday ride up the Rest and Be Thankful or round the Three Lochs.

It's a commuter path, designed to take some of the car traffic and parking issues out of the city centre - at not inconsiderable expense - and it's not being used.

The next time the cycling lobby ask for ........... they may not get it."

It does seem strange that commuters aren't using it, must be practical reasons why many individuals are so set against using it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't use cycle paths as I put pedestrians at risk, imagine the damage caused by me hitting a person at 20 to 30 Mph.

Don't forget drivers have a number plate and can be traced......"

why would you go that fast if there was a pedestrians..

all road users have to travel at a speed safest to the situation.

again road safety should be about safety not speed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cycle lanes here are in good condition as there are no heavy vehicles that use them.

out of your way? As i said its about safety not speed. Again with the stop starting. Safety not speed.

if its not safe to go on the inside of a bus.. then dont. Overtake once the bus is in a stop. Again safety not speed.

parked in the cycle lane? Safely overtake.. we all get these hazords on the road. Again safety not speed.

when i cycle i have no trouble reading the road ahead and manovuring in the safest way to clear an obstacle.

If vehicles had this attitude of get to a and b as quickly as poss using whatever means and going as fast as they liked without consideration of rules.. there would be chaos.

a car that cant be bothered to use the one way system as its out the way? A car just overtaking a slower larger vehicle cos why should he be hindered even tho a car is more vulnerable to a lorry.. etc

all road users should be considerate to others and not have an attitude of im more vulnerable and everyone should look out for me cos why should i have to slow down to be safer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cyclists are as much to blame for accidents as any vehicle. They are oblivious to what's around block roads and do what thry want. They want to be treated like cars but they don't follow the rules such as stopping at lights. There was recently a petition for all accidents involving cyclists to be automatically the cars fault. That I find ridiculous. Cyclists should be fined like drivers if using their phones etc as their lack of care causes accidents.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"Cycle lanes here are in good condition as there are no heavy vehicles that use them.

out of your way? As i said its about safety not speed. Again with the stop starting. Safety not speed.

if its not safe to go on the inside of a bus.. then dont. Overtake once the bus is in a stop. Again safety not speed.

parked in the cycle lane? Safely overtake.. we all get these hazords on the road. Again safety not speed.

when i cycle i have no trouble reading the road ahead and manovuring in the safest way to clear an obstacle.

If vehicles had this attitude of get to a and b as quickly as poss using whatever means and going as fast as they liked without consideration of rules.. there would be chaos.

all road users should be considerate to others and not have an attitude of im more vulnerable and everyone should look out for me cos why should i have to slow down to be safer"

Are you really suggesting that a legitimate road user should go a couple of miles out of their way when there is a perfectly legal route they can use to get to their destination?

One way is one way for ALL users so that is a straw man argument.

Answer me one question - do you believe cycles have the right to use the roads?

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"Cyclists are as much to blame for accidents as any vehicle. They are oblivious to what's around block roads and do what thry want. They want to be treated like cars but they don't follow the rules such as stopping at lights. There was recently a petition for all accidents involving cyclists to be automatically the cars fault. That I find ridiculous. Cyclists should be fined like drivers if using their phones etc as their lack of care causes accidents. "

Actually, a recent study by the City of Westminster found that in cycle/vehicle collisions the driver was at fault in around 70% of incidents, a recent survey from Aviva insurance found that 14% of drivers ADMITTED to jumping at least two red lights in the previous month whereas a Sunday Times survey found that at the worst junction in Manchester only 10% of cyclists jumped a red light and that was the highest figure from six junctions surveyed across London, Birmingham and Manchester.

Therefore it seems that drivers are at fault the majority of the time and more drivers jump red lights than do cyclists - your claims are not backed up by evidence i'm afraid.

Plus, the idea of assumed liability is Civil Law not Criminal Law, this system is already in use by insurance companies when a car rear ends you. The vehicle hitting the car in front is deemed to be at fault unless they can prove otherwise, if this is good enough for cars then why is it not good enough for cyclists?

It is insurance liability only and and has no bearing on any criminal matter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Therefore it seems that drivers are at fault the majority of the time and more drivers jump red lights than do cyclists - your claims are not backed up by evidence i'm afraid.

It is insurance liability only and and has no bearing on any criminal matter."

Sorry but what a load of nonsense. No cyclist would admit to breaking the law and being at fault in an accident. Why should a driver who has enough to contend with then get penalised having a fault claim just because of some stupid cyclist who has no regard for others on road. The stats may not show reality of cyclists being to blame. Can cause near misses as much as actual accidents. If I had any say I'd ban cyclists from roads or make them sit a test like the rest if us prove they have the common sense and ability to cycle safely

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

Therefore it seems that drivers are at fault the majority of the time and more drivers jump red lights than do cyclists - your claims are not backed up by evidence i'm afraid.

It is insurance liability only and and has no bearing on any criminal matter.

It isn't nonsense, its statistics.

Cry all you like, the stats tell the story and the figures add up.

Fortunately you don't have any say - cyclists are legitimate road users and have every right to be on the roads they pay towards.

If presumed liability is good enough when you get rear ended then its good enough when a cyclist gets hit.

The reality is that the majority of incidents are caused by drivers however you like to think otherwise.

Find me a survey/study that backs up your claims please.

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By *teveanddebs OP Couple
over a year ago

Norwich

And if a driver of any vehicle hits a cyclist up the arse they will be assumed to be at fault, that's not quite the same as assuming a driver is in the wrong if a cyclist pulls out in front of them which is what I can see happening.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"And if a driver of any vehicle hits a cyclist up the arse they will be assumed to be at fault, that's not quite the same as assuming a driver is in the wrong if a cyclist pulls out in front of them which is what I can see happening."

Which is where the phrase 'unless proved otherwise' Its exactly the same as a car in front braking recklessly and causing an accident. The insurance investigators will do their job and pay out or not on the balance of probabilities/evidence. Why should a collision between a cycle and a car be any different to that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Therefore it seems that drivers are at fault the majority of the time and more drivers jump red lights than do cyclists - your claims are not backed up by evidence i'm afraid.

It is insurance liability only and and has no bearing on any criminal matter.

It isn't nonsense, its statistics.

Cry all you like, the stats tell the story and the figures add up.

Fortunately you don't have any say - cyclists are legitimate road users and have every right to be on the roads they pay towards.

If presumed liability is good enough when you get rear ended then its good enough when a cyclist gets hit.

The reality is that the majority of incidents are caused by drivers however you like to think otherwise.

Find me a survey/study that backs up your claims please.

Since when do cyclists pay towards roads? Drivers tax mot and insure cars and if fail to do so are breaking the law. However cyclists don't have any of these costs or liabilities. Accident should be assessed and fault assigned on that specific incident. Ever tried over taking a cyclist who is oblivious to ur existance? Nightmare then they cycle along texting so wobble on bike car has no idea what's happening and could hit the cyclist or worse cause a crash with other cars due to stupid cyclist who will cycle away not caring

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

Therefore it seems that drivers are at fault the majority of the time and more drivers jump red lights than do cyclists - your claims are not backed up by evidence i'm afraid.

It is insurance liability only and and has no bearing on any criminal matter.

It isn't nonsense, its statistics.

Cry all you like, the stats tell the story and the figures add up.

Fortunately you don't have any say - cyclists are legitimate road users and have every right to be on the roads they pay towards.

If presumed liability is good enough when you get rear ended then its good enough when a cyclist gets hit.

The reality is that the majority of incidents are caused by drivers however you like to think otherwise.

Find me a survey/study that backs up your claims please.

Oh dear, do you really want to do this one? May i politely suggest you look up exactly how roads are funded and what the taxation types are actually for? This has been done to death before, i can offer you all the relevant facts if you wish but you may wish to look it up yourself.

If you are going to talk about phone use/texting whilst on the road i suggest you are on a very sticky wicket with that one as far more motorists are guilty of this one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Tax cars pay is based on fumes and polluting..

if cyclists were taxed so would pedrestians and horse riders have to be and thats just silly

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"Tax cars pay is based on fumes and polluting..

if cyclists were taxed so would pedrestians and horse riders have to be and thats just silly"

Plus roads are funded via Council Tax which we all pay.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tax cars pay is based on fumes and polluting..

if cyclists were taxed so would pedrestians and horse riders have to be and thats just silly

Plus roads are funded via Council Tax which we all pay."

Yeah I know that thanks but still if cars have to pay so much to drive on the roads cyclists should pay something too. As for mobile use yes I'm aware it's more common for car users but should be equally blamed when they are at fault. People make out cyclists are so innocent when really they are danger to themselves and all other road users.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tax cars pay is based on fumes and polluting..

if cyclists were taxed so would pedrestians and horse riders have to be and thats just silly

Plus roads are funded via Council Tax which we all pay.

as i said so would pedestrians then as they use the roads and cause accidents.. especially if crossing roads while using their phone etc.. difference is a pedestrian or cyclist is very unlikely to cause very much damage compared to a motorised vehicle..

and what about mobility scooters?

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

I would much rather people just admitted they disliked cyclists rather than offer silly and spurious claims that they cannot back up with evidence.

Its quite simple, cyclists pay through Council Tax like everyone else. If you don't want to pay VED buy a Band A vehicle, otherwise suck it up.

Cyclists have the right to use the roads by Statute, you don't have to like it and i don't really care if you do or not.

However, you DO have to afford cyclists the same care and courtesy that you are required to offer every other road user - the Highway Code is quite clear on that.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

How many times do we have to do this?

The EVIDENCE says that 70% of incidents are caused by the driver, therefore it is the DRIVER that is far more dangerous to other road users. 2000+ deaths a year caused by poor driving, how many caused by poor cycling?

2 in the last 10 years.

Make all the silly claims you like, the evidence says you are talking rubbish i'm afraid. Sorry to be so rude but if you cannot produce evidence for your claims then rubbish is the correct phrase.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How many times do we have to do this?

2 in the last 10 years.

Make all the silly claims you like, the evidence says you are talking rubbish i'm afraid. Sorry to be so rude but if you cannot produce evidence for your claims then rubbish is the correct phrase."

Get off ur high statistic horse and have a normal conversation. Just because a cyclist is not directly involved on accident ie hit by car etc they can still be and are the cause of accidents due to their lack of care. They have the right to use the roads but must comply to Highway Code which most don't. I'll happily admit I hate cyclists. They are one of worse road hazards as they are unpredictable. Just other day was driving behind one along road full if parked cars he was weaving in and out as if letting me pass but when tried he blocked my way never bothering to look round. Fewer accidents happen since use of phones was made illegal would be even fewer if cyclists were banned

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How many times do we have to do this?

2 in the last 10 years.

Make all the silly claims you like, the evidence says you are talking rubbish i'm afraid. Sorry to be so rude but if you cannot produce evidence for your claims then rubbish is the correct phrase."

Of course there's more car accidents there's more cars to have accidents

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

You have happily admitted you hate cyclists, therefore no matter what evidence i provide you will refuse to countenance it.

I see no real reason to continue talking to you seeing as you have just told me you hate me for the ridiculous reason that i ride a bicycle.

I have provided evidence, told you the name of the studies conducted so that you can look it up for yourself. In response you keep making claims about cyclists causing accidents with no evidence to back up your claims.

You are simply speaking from a position of bigotry and that is quite frankly an unacceptable attitude to take onto our roads.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You have happily admitted you hate cyclists, therefore no matter what evidence i provide you will refuse to countenance it.

I see no real reason to continue talking to you seeing as you have just told me you hate me for the ridiculous reason that i ride a bicycle.

You are simply speaking from a position of bigotry and that is quite frankly an unacceptable attitude to take onto our roads."

I knew u must be a cyclist why else would u be so obsessed with defending cyclists. I'm not a bigot I'm good driver who tries avoid cyclists for their safety but they don't make it easy. Driving near them makes me nervous as they take no care for their or anyone else's safety if I was to be involved in a crash caused by a cyclist would be me who gets blame and the emotional shock and lasting damage

Let me know when u open ur eyes and realise cyclists are not perfect. Far from it. They should have to get a licence that can recurve points pay tax and insurance like the rest of road users

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

If you are involved in a crash with a cyclist you would be awarded blame if it were your fault - its no different to any other road collison.

Whatever you state, the facts bear out that drivers are responsible for the majority of the incidents - unless you can provide other evidence? I've asked several times but you seem unable to offer such evidence.

If driving near legitimate road users going about their legal and daily activities makes you nervous then that is your problem, one that YOU need to address.

You keep saying this fallacy about you getting blamed for a crash caused by a cyclist, you can only be blamed if you caused the accident. Is this too difficult to grasp? The evidence from court cases tells very strongly that even when drivers are CONVICTED of causing accidents they are treated very leniently by the courts.

The average penalty for causing the death of a cyclist in this country is a six month ban, six points on the license and a small fine.

I don't need to defend cyclists, the accumulated evidence speaks for itself - motorists are responsible for almost 3 in 4 incidents.

You have just admitted you hate cyclists for no reason other than they are doing what they are allowed to do - to whit, using the roads.

That is quite naked bigotry to me. I've experienced it often enough from people who have your attitude and to be frank - it stinks.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

I'm going to step away from this now.

Some people prefer to wallow in their deliberate ignorance and bigotry rather than try to understand that everyone on the road has not only a right to be there but a duty of care for others.

They do not want to listen so what is the point?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you are involved in a crash with a cyclist you would be awarded blame if it were your fault - its no different to any other road collison.

If driving near legitimate road users going about their legal and daily activities makes you nervous then that is your problem, one that YOU need to address.

The average penalty for causing the death of a cyclist in this country is a six month ban, six points on the license and a small fine.

I don't need to defend cyclists, the accumulated evidence speaks for itself - motorists are responsible for almost 3 in 4 incidents.

You have just admitted you hate cyclists for no reason other than they are doing what they are allowed to do - to whit, using the roads.

That is quite naked bigotry to me. I've experienced it often enough from people who have your attitude and to be frank - it stinks."

If that's ur attitude then urs stinks too. U go on about statistics which are bit unrealistic. I'm basing my info on real terms. Just cause a cyclist isn't directly involved doesn't mean they aren't the one at fault. If cyclist causes a near miss with a car the cyclist goes on about their day unaware where as the driver is left shaken potentially causes a more serious accident. Fine points and 6 month ban is a lot for a driver though it's better than jail time.

Being nervous driving near cyclists is normal for plenty drivers as cyclists are so irresponsible they can lose balance,move in between cars with no warning,change their minds constantly make no observations stop at wrong bits too close to cars and use phones eyc which throws off balance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm going to step away from this now.

Some people prefer to wallow in their deliberate ignorance and bigotry rather than try to understand that everyone on the road has not only a right to be there but a duty of care for others.

They do not want to listen so what is the point?

I look forward to hearing from u when ur blindsided immaturity has gone and u realise ur wrong. Cyclists have a right to be on the road unfortunately but take no care for others

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

I know i shouldn't do this but..

Show me the evidence for your claims are i will call you out for a bullshitter.

My points are backed up by evidence, by statistics and by the law.

You have repeatedly made claims about cyclist causing accidents yet you repeatedly ignore my calls for evidence of you assertions.

Provide the evidence or you are making things up.

Evidence please.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I know i shouldn't do this but..

Show me the evidence for your claims are i will call you out for a bullshitter.

My points are backed up by evidence, by statistics and by the law.

You have repeatedly made claims about cyclist causing accidents yet you repeatedly ignore my calls for evidence of you assertions.

Provide the evidence or you are making things up.

Evidence please."

Evidence is irrelevant it's about reality of what happens on roads regardless of actual accidents. I'm guessing u don't don't actually drive? If u did u would see things very differently. I'm sure if u did a survey of how many people like or dislike cyclists the vast majority will say dislike. Roads would be safer without them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Some of them seem to have a death wish"

Yes they do I like to have my say on this to, they jump red lights they cut in front if you and then they kick off when they nearly get killed like it's the drivers fault they even have there own leans which they never use

Wow that feels better

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

Thank you.

You admit you have no evidence, you even say it is irrelevant. You have no proof of your claims yet even when given ample opportunity to prove what you say you refuse.

Therefore you are a bullshitter.

Evidence is EVERYTHING, it is what Courts and the police use, it is how highways engineers decide to create safer systems, it is how staticians work.

You have no evidence, you simply want to push your bigotry. Roads would be safer without people like YOU being around legitimate road users.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

"Some of them seem to have a death wish

Wow that feels better

enjoy that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are those cars the cyclist is moving around invisible to you?

if not surely a person who plans ahead rather than react will see the hazard ahead.

i think your reaponces says more about your driving than the cyclist

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By *teveanddebs OP Couple
over a year ago

Norwich

no cyclist wants to get hurt so where all this bullshit comes from about having death wishes ,i really don't understand it.

Sorry but I have to pick up on this, in London there are a lot that give the impression that they have no care for their own safety so I can quite understand people thinking this.

If there is a lorry or bus indicating to turn left and a cyclist overtakes them on the nearside then they patently DO have a deathwish, either that or they are too stupid to be on the road.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

no cyclist wants to get hurt so where all this bullshit comes from about having death wishes ,i really don't understand it.

Sorry but I have to pick up on this, in London there are a lot that give the impression that they have no care for their own safety so I can quite understand people thinking this.

If there is a lorry or bus indicating to turn left and a cyclist overtakes them on the nearside then they patently DO have a deathwish, either that or they are too stupid to be on the road."

I would go with stupidity/ignorance/inexperience rather than actually wanting to die. Not many people want that and it's usually a sign of mental illness to be fair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thank you.

You admit you have no evidence, you even say it is irrelevant. You have no proof of your claims yet even when given ample opportunity to prove what you say you refuse.

Therefore you are a bullshitter.

Evidence is EVERYTHING, it is what Courts and the police use, it is how highways engineers decide to create safer systems, it is how staticians work.

You have no evidence, you simply want to push your bigotry. Roads would be safer without people like YOU being around legitimate road users.

I am a legitimate safe and legal road user.

I don't need evidence the proof is on the roads.

I think u will find ur the bullshitter. The majority of road users are cars and if there was a poll done there ur evidence would be that cyclists are minority and should be removed from roads.

U really are blinded by ur silly bike. U haven't answered the question if u have a car? I assume not as I said before u would notice how annoying cyclists are and would agree with my sensible non bigoted opinion. When u do ill look forward to ur apology

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

no cyclist wants to get hurt so where all this bullshit comes from about having death wishes ,i really don't understand it.

Sorry but I have to pick up on this, in London there are a lot that give the impression that they have no care for their own safety so I can quite understand people thinking this.

If there is a lorry or bus indicating to turn left and a cyclist overtakes them on the nearside then they patently DO have a deathwish, either that or they are too stupid to be on the road.

I would go with stupidity/ignorance/inexperience rather than actually wanting to die. Not many people want that and it's usually a sign of mental illness to be fair."

Well done u admitted cyclists are stupid and ignorant of ability to use roads safely

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Some of them seem to have a death wish

Wow that feels better

Thank u someone with sense!!

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

I have 30yrs of cycling under my belt.

In that time i have been involved in one collision and the driver admitted liability at the scene to a police officer.

I can speak from a good level of experience, i have never been pulled by the police or caused an accident.

I say again, show me the evidence.

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By *wingerdelightCouple
over a year ago

eastliegh

Why do we just have a driving test for cycling and mandatory insurance. It would solve a lot of the problems. Do something wrong and get points like every other road user

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