Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to The Lounge |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'd like to see a global view on violence against anyone. Women get the most press but there's a lot of hidden suffering amongst men." It would be amazing if that could be achieved, but sadly it never will be  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'd like to see a global view on violence against anyone. Women get the most press but there's a lot of hidden suffering amongst men." That is true. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Big hugs to anyone suffering. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" Lets have a group hug for that xx | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'd like to see a global view on violence against anyone. Women get the most press but there's a lot of hidden suffering amongst men."  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it an international day against women anyway, what about the guys " It's not just about domestic violence, it is about laws that unfairly allow violence to women and not men (stoning for adultery for instance even when the woman was raped). It's about rape during wars, often used to undermine the 'enemy' and the claim a victory one woman at a time. International Men's Day last week focused on safety and violence for men so there was a day this month. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It probably covers honour killings and violence against women in the name of religion/culture, which doesn't affect men. Also female genital mutilation may count. And, of course, sexual crimes against women are more frequent. In the western world DV is the most prevalent problem but worldwide there is often more to consider in terms of intentional harm to women. There are more physical harm issues faced by women than men but since there are issues faced by men it does seem wrong to sweep that under the carpet." This isn't about sweeping men under the carpet but is about things that you mention like honour killings, forced marriage, sex crimes, FGM, stoning and more. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it an international day against women anyway, what about the guys It's not just about domestic violence, it is about laws that unfairly allow violence to women and not men (stoning for adultery for instance even when the woman was raped). It's about rape during wars, often used to undermine the 'enemy' and the claim a victory one woman at a time. International Men's Day last week focused on safety and violence for men so there was a day this month. " Its not at the forefront of the campaign as people see it though.Copied and pasted from the WEBPAGE.... International Men’s Day is a time for many people to reflect on the contributions, sacrifices and progress made by men in society. Such progress includes that of men working together with women to make educational, economic, social, and technological advances in society. Topics that may be discussed or showcased through various media, activities and events on the day may include: Men’s and boys’ health. The importance of gender equality. Improvements towards gender relations in all societies. Positive male role models for younger generations. Men’s roles in community, family, relationships and childcare. Healing and forgiveness. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it an international day against women anyway, what about the guys It's not just about domestic violence, it is about laws that unfairly allow violence to women and not men (stoning for adultery for instance even when the woman was raped). It's about rape during wars, often used to undermine the 'enemy' and the claim a victory one woman at a time. International Men's Day last week focused on safety and violence for men so there was a day this month. Its not at the forefront of the campaign as people see it though.Copied and pasted from the WEBPAGE.... International Men’s Day is a time for many people to reflect on the contributions, sacrifices and progress made by men in society. Such progress includes that of men working together with women to make educational, economic, social, and technological advances in society. Topics that may be discussed or showcased through various media, activities and events on the day may include: Men’s and boys’ health. The importance of gender equality. Improvements towards gender relations in all societies. Positive male role models for younger generations. Men’s roles in community, family, relationships and childcare. Healing and forgiveness." Each year they have a different theme. This year was about safety and violence. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it an international day against women anyway, what about the guys It's not just about domestic violence, it is about laws that unfairly allow violence to women and not men (stoning for adultery for instance even when the woman was raped). It's about rape during wars, often used to undermine the 'enemy' and the claim a victory one woman at a time. International Men's Day last week focused on safety and violence for men so there was a day this month. Its not at the forefront of the campaign as people see it though.Copied and pasted from the WEBPAGE.... International Men’s Day is a time for many people to reflect on the contributions, sacrifices and progress made by men in society. Such progress includes that of men working together with women to make educational, economic, social, and technological advances in society. Topics that may be discussed or showcased through various media, activities and events on the day may include: Men’s and boys’ health. The importance of gender equality. Improvements towards gender relations in all societies. Positive male role models for younger generations. Men’s roles in community, family, relationships and childcare. Healing and forgiveness. Each year they have a different theme. This year was about safety and violence. " That was taken from this years campaign, DV is very taboo for men that suffer, do they have a eliminate DV for men day? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yes men suffer violence in the home. But this is about violence against women internationally not just domestic violence. Women (and children) have always borne the greatest brunt of this violence usually perpetrated by men. So to ask 'what about the men' is missing the point and suggests a level playing field which actually does not exist. " overcoming challenges such as domestic violence and drug abuse......see nothing specific.Whilst I agree with the sentiment I still think DV perpetrated by women is swept under the carpet. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"40% of DV victims are men out of every 5 victims 3 will be women and 2 are men. Male DV is on the rise according to the leading charity that works with men who are the victims of domestic related violence..." was driving through scousewille the other night and listened to a call made by a guy who was a victim of DV. it sounded like a woman with a deep voice, as in you hear the exact same from a woman suffering as this guy said. it was his fault she hit him cuz he ignored her, but he just didnt want to say the wrong thing he didnt clean up properly and so on. nearly broke my heart. tho is guy was a truly broken man | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yes men suffer violence in the home. But this is about violence against women internationally not just domestic violence. Women (and children) have always borne the greatest brunt of this violence usually perpetrated by men. So to ask 'what about the men' is missing the point and suggests a level playing field which actually does not exist. " so are all the children female children? the male children are now ignored by these kind of days. im sure that makes them feel much better on their way home from school tonight, to hide under the dining room table until whichever parent comes home | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it an international day against women anyway, what about the guys It's not just about domestic violence, it is about laws that unfairly allow violence to women and not men (stoning for adultery for instance even when the woman was raped). It's about rape during wars, often used to undermine the 'enemy' and the claim a victory one woman at a time. International Men's Day last week focused on safety and violence for men so there was a day this month. Its not at the forefront of the campaign as people see it though.Copied and pasted from the WEBPAGE.... International Men’s Day is a time for many people to reflect on the contributions, sacrifices and progress made by men in society. Such progress includes that of men working together with women to make educational, economic, social, and technological advances in society. Topics that may be discussed or showcased through various media, activities and events on the day may include: Men’s and boys’ health. The importance of gender equality. Improvements towards gender relations in all societies. Positive male role models for younger generations. Men’s roles in community, family, relationships and childcare. Healing and forgiveness. Each year they have a different theme. This year was about safety and violence. That was taken from this years campaign, DV is very taboo for men that suffer, do they have a eliminate DV for men day?" Not yet but the "they" is we, it's men, it's charities, it's a campaign that could happen. This campaign isn't about domestic violence alone. Having a day that looks at the international treatment of women does not detract from a day for men happening. Men need to be willing to tell their stories of DV, get it out there. It is and has been hard enough for women to tell their stories. Violence is bad full stop. I don't understand this automatic dismissal of this because it isn't about men. I am not advocating violence against men or maintaining or ignoring that. What I am raising awareness of is that violence against women continues across the world in a range of ways that often don't get talked about. Not just DV. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I would advise all of you (especially females) to go on youtube and type in 'Manal al-Sharif: A Saudi woman who dared to drive' and watch the video." Thank you for this post. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it an international day against women anyway, what about the guys It's not just about domestic violence, it is about laws that unfairly allow violence to women and not men (stoning for adultery for instance even when the woman was raped). It's about rape during wars, often used to undermine the 'enemy' and the claim a victory one woman at a time. International Men's Day last week focused on safety and violence for men so there was a day this month. Its not at the forefront of the campaign as people see it though.Copied and pasted from the WEBPAGE.... International Men’s Day is a time for many people to reflect on the contributions, sacrifices and progress made by men in society. Such progress includes that of men working together with women to make educational, economic, social, and technological advances in society. Topics that may be discussed or showcased through various media, activities and events on the day may include: Men’s and boys’ health. The importance of gender equality. Improvements towards gender relations in all societies. Positive male role models for younger generations. Men’s roles in community, family, relationships and childcare. Healing and forgiveness. Each year they have a different theme. This year was about safety and violence. That was taken from this years campaign, DV is very taboo for men that suffer, do they have a eliminate DV for men day? Not yet but the "they" is we, it's men, it's charities, it's a campaign that could happen. This campaign isn't about domestic violence alone. Having a day that looks at the international treatment of women does not detract from a day for men happening. Men need to be willing to tell their stories of DV, get it out there. It is and has been hard enough for women to tell their stories. Violence is bad full stop. I don't understand this automatic dismissal of this because it isn't about men. I am not advocating violence against men or maintaining or ignoring that. What I am raising awareness of is that violence against women continues across the world in a range of ways that often don't get talked about. Not just DV. " I haven't dismissed it, I just haven't addressed it 
It does get talked about- lots, maybe it varys from area to area, there are lots of womens groups aimed at various groups in local communities. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. Is it possible to achieve a global view on violence against women? " Though i don't condone violence of any sort regardless of who its against & have supported a few friends out of such relationships there is a flip side to this - domestic abuse against men & those who lie about DV to gain sympathy. Having been put through the turmoil of false allegations & proving my innocence in court i (& this is biased cause of my own experience) would like to see an day for the elimination of all abuse regardless of gender & those who falsely accuse to be punished accordingly - that is a day i doubt will ever happen | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. Is it possible to achieve a global view on violence against women? Though i don't condone violence of any sort regardless of who its against & have supported a few friends out of such relationships there is a flip side to this - domestic abuse against men & those who lie about DV to gain sympathy. Having been put through the turmoil of false allegations & proving my innocence in court i (& this is biased cause of my own experience) would like to see an day for the elimination of all abuse regardless of gender & those who falsely accuse to be punished accordingly - that is a day i doubt will ever happen "Why won't it happen? We, collectively and individually, have the chance to make anything happen. Again, I am not dismissing violence against men but I am raising awareness about this day. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yes men suffer violence in the home. But this is about violence against women internationally not just domestic violence. Women (and children) have always borne the greatest brunt of this violence usually perpetrated by men. So to ask 'what about the men' is missing the point and suggests a level playing field which actually does not exist. " I can see your (and Lickety's) point and I recognise it's not a level playing field, which I mentioned above when commenting on the likely reason for having a specific women's day. However, because the playing field is not level and because atrocities against women are therefore reported on more frequently, the issues faced by men can be overlooked. This is particularly so because of the stigma and the unwillingness of many men to report it. Saying "what about the men?" isn't necessarily missing the point, it's more thinking of everyone who needs representation and support. Just because women and children bear the brunt doesn't mean they are more deserving of protection. Men who suffer from violence of any sort don't need or deserve less recognition and help just because there are more types and more instances of crimes against women. Everyone deserves safety from violence. I can see the reasoning behind a day raising awareness of violence against women, but I think more needs to be done to raise awareness about the issues some men face. Lumping violence in with a general men's day isn't enough, in my view. I hope I've been clear enough here to explain my view, but I suspect I've not. Women deserve equality - to have the same rights as men. The men deserve that equality too, and some don't get it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It's well known that there are 100's on women refuges in the country but I believe that there are only 2 male refuges in the whole of the uk...there are so many support services for women but very few for me...mankind being one of them.,..male on male DV is increasing along with female on male I've seen the rise and supported many male victims....while there are more women experiencing DV....the men need to have the same amount of support and that awareness needs to be raised that it's ok to report what they are experiencing..." Me is meant to be men | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. Is it possible to achieve a global view on violence against women? Though i don't condone violence of any sort regardless of who its against & have supported a few friends out of such relationships there is a flip side to this - domestic abuse against men & those who lie about DV to gain sympathy. Having been put through the turmoil of false allegations & proving my innocence in court i (& this is biased cause of my own experience) would like to see an day for the elimination of all abuse regardless of gender & those who falsely accuse to be punished accordingly - that is a day i doubt will ever happen
Why won't it happen? We, collectively and individually, have the chance to make anything happen.
Again, I am not dismissing violence against men but I am raising awareness about this day."it wont happen because even though we collectively want it to it is a big ask to try and stop internationally - especially as even in this day and age some believe women as second class citizens who are weaker & inferior to men. Trying to teach & educate them is not easy task and though it may happen i doubt i'll be alive to see it. I didn't mean to imply you were ignoring DV against men and i, having seen how difficult it is to even help a victim see she even is a victim and shouldn't put up with it, fully support you bringing this to peoples attention  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yes men suffer violence in the home. But this is about violence against women internationally not just domestic violence. Women (and children) have always borne the greatest brunt of this violence usually perpetrated by men. So to ask 'what about the men' is missing the point and suggests a level playing field which actually does not exist. I can see your (and Lickety's) point and I recognise it's not a level playing field, which I mentioned above when commenting on the likely reason for having a specific women's day. However, because the playing field is not level and because atrocities against women are therefore reported on more frequently, the issues faced by men can be overlooked. This is particularly so because of the stigma and the unwillingness of many men to report it. Saying "what about the men?" isn't necessarily missing the point, it's more thinking of everyone who needs representation and support. Just because women and children bear the brunt doesn't mean they are more deserving of protection. Men who suffer from violence of any sort don't need or deserve less recognition and help just because there are more types and more instances of crimes against women. Everyone deserves safety from violence. I can see the reasoning behind a day raising awareness of violence against women, but I think more needs to be done to raise awareness about the issues some men face. Lumping violence in with a general men's day isn't enough, in my view. I hope I've been clear enough here to explain my view, but I suspect I've not. Women deserve equality - to have the same rights as men. The men deserve that equality too, and some don't get it." Violence against men is rarely state sanctioned but it often is for women, due to inequalities in laws across the world. Men have to start taking the issues affecting their gender seriously, and they don't because it is not seen as manly. Women trying to lead campaigns to support and empower men are often not welcomed (in my personal experience of awareness raising, campaigning and activism). We won't achieve safety for men or women until we start treating people as EQUAL PEOPLE. However, the level women have to get to before that is possible is still greater than for men. I do love the way a thread about women has turned almost entirely into a thread about "what about the men?". How perfectly it illustrates how much more is needed to get women's equality to the same level as men's. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. Is it possible to achieve a global view on violence against women? " I suppose this is like asking for world peace.....unfortunately this will just not happen. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The thread has turned into one largely about men because many of us are aware that supporting one group to the exclusion of another is not a state to which we should aspire. That's a good thing, surely. It recognises that everyone should be equal. Women's rights have a hell of a lot further to go, without a doubt. That doesn't, in my view, make them more important. It's not right to focus on catching up with the rights of women before we act for men. Absolutely this day is important. I'm not denying that. I'm not saying reduce the campaigning on behalf of women. I'm advocating increasing it on behalf of men. The two can happen without detracting from one another, I believe. " I don't want men suffering in the numbers that women do before action is taken but to skate over the fact that women are disproportionately affected gets us nowhere. Equality for women is not hampered just by men and laws, it is also hampered by women for a variety of reasons. One of those is women who ignore and dismiss what happens to other women as they are bored/disinterested/whatever and will divert the debate to ask "what about the men?". The men don't need to do much then to acknowledge the difference or even act to change that - we women will help keep the status quo. What I am expressing, albeit angrily at the moment and therefore not as clearly as I should, is that this thread has been a good example of what happens and why more campaigns come up on similar subjects about women. When a thread like this or a campaign like todays is not diverted by "what about the men?" then it may stand a chance of sticking. All is fine. Threads take their own path and I have work to return to for a while before I return to see the "Lickety being a rampant feminist" posts later. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"... "Lickety being a rampant feminist" posts later... " Not sure i've ever come across a lickety is a rampant feminist thread. Though i'd like to see a rampant lickety   | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I would advise all of you (especially females) to go on youtube and type in 'Manal al-Sharif: A Saudi woman who dared to drive' and watch the video. Thank you for this post. " Granted that the post is slightly off topic given topic in discussion but i just thought it is a moving story about how to create change in society. That being said, in Youtube type in "Jackson Katz: Violence against women—it's a men's issue", i think this video is in line with this topic of domestic violence | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yes men suffer violence in the home. But this is about violence against women internationally not just domestic violence. Women (and children) have always borne the greatest brunt of this violence usually perpetrated by men. So to ask 'what about the men' is missing the point and suggests a level playing field which actually does not exist. I can see your (and Lickety's) point and I recognise it's not a level playing field, which I mentioned above when commenting on the likely reason for having a specific women's day. However, because the playing field is not level and because atrocities against women are therefore reported on more frequently, the issues faced by men can be overlooked. This is particularly so because of the stigma and the unwillingness of many men to report it. Saying "what about the men?" isn't necessarily missing the point, it's more thinking of everyone who needs representation and support. Just because women and children bear the brunt doesn't mean they are more deserving of protection. Men who suffer from violence of any sort don't need or deserve less recognition and help just because there are more types and more instances of crimes against women. Everyone deserves safety from violence. I can see the reasoning behind a day raising awareness of violence against women, but I think more needs to be done to raise awareness about the issues some men face. Lumping violence in with a general men's day isn't enough, in my view. I hope I've been clear enough here to explain my view, but I suspect I've not. Women deserve equality - to have the same rights as men. The men deserve that equality too, and some don't get it. Violence against men is rarely state sanctioned but it often is for women, due to inequalities in laws across the world. Men have to start taking the issues affecting their gender seriously, and they don't because it is not seen as manly. Women trying to lead campaigns to support and empower men are often not welcomed (in my personal experience of awareness raising, campaigning and activism). We won't achieve safety for men or women until we start treating people as EQUAL PEOPLE. However, the level women have to get to before that is possible is still greater than for men. I do love the way a thread about women has turned almost entirely into a thread about "what about the men?". How perfectly it illustrates how much more is needed to get women's equality to the same level as men's. " lickety i applaud your stance, especially the point you make regarding seeing people as people instead of seeing the gender the same sentiment should be applied to race, sexuality, religion and so forth.
That said i would point out that there have been instances where the feminist lobby have been unhappy at women being asked to give up areas where they have an advantage.
for example all people reaching the same age in order to access state pension instead of a 5 year disparity, also the end of automatic discounts on car insurance based solely on being female.
These are just two issues where i have personaly seen women go nuts at the idea of being treated as equals.
the equality issue is much more complex than most of us care to admit. On the subject of the campaign you highlighted in your op, i fear that the dangers of the way these are percieved by the public due to the soundbites provided by the media and by vested interests can often backfire and leave the men in the population feel that they are being blamed for all things wrong in society.
that said keep shouting as highlighting inequality in all its forms is the only way to win the fight. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The thread has turned into one largely about men because many of us are aware that supporting one group to the exclusion of another is not a state to which we should aspire. That's a good thing, surely. It recognises that everyone should be equal. Women's rights have a hell of a lot further to go, without a doubt. That doesn't, in my view, make them more important. It's not right to focus on catching up with the rights of women before we act for men. Absolutely this day is important. I'm not denying that. I'm not saying reduce the campaigning on behalf of women. I'm advocating increasing it on behalf of men. The two can happen without detracting from one another, I believe. I don't want men suffering in the numbers that women do before action is taken but to skate over the fact that women are disproportionately affected gets us nowhere. Equality for women is not hampered just by men and laws, it is also hampered by women for a variety of reasons. One of those is women who ignore and dismiss what happens to other women as they are bored/disinterested/whatever and will divert the debate to ask "what about the men?". The men don't need to do much then to acknowledge the difference or even act to change that - we women will help keep the status quo. What I am expressing, albeit angrily at the moment and therefore not as clearly as I should, is that this thread has been a good example of what happens and why more campaigns come up on similar subjects about women. When a thread like this or a campaign like todays is not diverted by "what about the men?" then it may stand a chance of sticking. All is fine. Threads take their own path and I have work to return to for a while before I return to see the "Lickety being a rampant feminist" posts later. " As you well know threads get taken off track a lot here, once you put them up you really have no say as to what will be said, Having said that whilst I understand the sentiment and the thought behind this subject, we are on a swinging site of which will always have women out numbering men, so the majority of time there is a huge bias....before we even talk about what effects men and women, if I wish to post something I will do so, and I suspect others will too, we all have our own opinions and thoughts on various things, take for instance the thread about destroying a mans ego, all be it light hearted and tongue in cheek the thought that men are shit under shoe to be used as required still comes across in certain women posts, that's their view their opinion, and Yes, I started another thread counteracting that. I for one would like to see non gender specific end to all DV etc...... But as the UN have deemed it for the women of the world I cannot do anything about re naming the day, I have my views, which I may or may not choose to share on this thread, but saying people like me are disinterested or even cause some of the problems leading to womens issues being misunderstood is poppycock at best in my opinion, all because I have pointed out about male DV? I think that's a tad ironic of you Lickety. So I will let you get the thread back on track...... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. Is it possible to achieve a global view on violence against women? " Probably not, some people treat humans like cattle to be used, and please note, women, men and children all suffer at the hands of someone else | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" All is fine. Threads take their own path and I have work to return to for a while before I return to see the "Lickety being a rampant feminist" posts later. As you well know threads get taken off track a lot here, once you put them up you really have no say as to what will be said, Having said that whilst I understand the sentiment and the thought behind this subject, we are on a swinging site of which will always have women out numbering men, so the majority of time there is a huge bias....before we even talk about what effects men and women, if I wish to post something I will do so, and I suspect others will too, we all have our own opinions and thoughts on various things, take for instance the thread about destroying a mans ego, all be it light hearted and tongue in cheek the thought that men are shit under shoe to be used as required still comes across in certain women posts, that's their view their opinion, and Yes, I started another thread counteracting that. I for one would like to see non gender specific end to all DV etc...... But as the UN have deemed it for the women of the world I cannot do anything about re naming the day, I have my views, which I may or may not choose to share on this thread, but saying people like me are disinterested or even cause some of the problems leading to womens issues being misunderstood is poppycock at best in my opinion, all because I have pointed out about male DV? I think that's a tad ironic of you Lickety. So I will let you get the thread back on track...... "I know people have their opinions and can and will post what they like. My point was and remains this isn't just domestic violence; this is about getting to a level playing field so that we can address all issues equally; the numbers of women affected by state sanctioned and personal/private violence far outweighs that faced by men; that it isn't just men's opinions that affect this but women's too. I am not singling you or anyone out for pointing out male domestic violence but I am making the point that a thread about women has become a thread about men. You find that ironic of me and I find the whole situation indicative of what is encountered by women the world over when trying to change things. None of this is personal to any of you on Fab and I am very well aware threads take their own path. That doesn't mean I can't or won't try and bring it back to the original aim of the thread. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Miss Lickety, may I please ask you to define 'Global' as what is International is not per say global.....and whether this concept encompasses religion/ethics/politics!" It is an international day but I can't see an international change without making it global. That does mean addressing what is done in the name of religion (often not in any religious teaching but deemed to be so), culture, ethics and Politics and politics. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females." I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. " Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment." | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment." They shouldn't. I will say again this day is not about domestic violence alone though. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment. They shouldn't. I will say again this day is not about domestic violence alone though. " but where is the day for men against violence. We had men's day the other week, but women have their own day and this day. It stinks of feminism, I totally agree what this day is all about just can't get my head around why males are discluded. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment. They shouldn't. I will say again this day is not about domestic violence alone though. but where is the day for men against violence. We had men's day the other week, but women have their own day and this day. It stinks of feminism, I totally agree what this day is all about just can't get my head around why males are discluded. " There's a lot of rampant, aggressive feminists out there for whom men deserve no consideration at all. OK, a lot of men don't deserve any consideration but in their militancy, some feminists undermine their cause. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment. They shouldn't. I will say again this day is not about domestic violence alone though. but where is the day for men against violence. We had men's day the other week, but women have their own day and this day. It stinks of feminism, I totally agree what this day is all about just can't get my head around why males are discluded. There's a lot of rampant, aggressive feminists out there for whom men deserve no consideration at all. OK, a lot of men don't deserve any consideration but in their militancy, some feminists undermine their cause." fuck me, I've actually agreed with something you said | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment. They shouldn't. I will say again this day is not about domestic violence alone though. but where is the day for men against violence. We had men's day the other week, but women have their own day and this day. It stinks of feminism, I totally agree what this day is all about just can't get my head around why males are discluded. " You would have to ask the organisers that. It's not a day I have been involved with previously or in the run up to this day. Hearing about it made me wonder about whether a global change is possible and wanting to highlight the issue. My guess is that the fact that women are treated so differently across the world is one reason for this day. It's not specifically about what happens in this country or other developed world countries. I am not for a moment suggesting that men do not experience violence of all sorts across the world but the numbers experiencing it specifically because of their gender (other than war) is vastly greater for women than for men. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment. They shouldn't. I will say again this day is not about domestic violence alone though. but where is the day for men against violence. We had men's day the other week, but women have their own day and this day. It stinks of feminism, I totally agree what this day is all about just can't get my head around why males are discluded. There's a lot of rampant, aggressive feminists out there for whom men deserve no consideration at all. OK, a lot of men don't deserve any consideration but in their militancy, some feminists undermine their cause.fuck me, I've actually agreed with something you said " me too, fekkin scary thought  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment. They shouldn't. I will say again this day is not about domestic violence alone though. but where is the day for men against violence. We had men's day the other week, but women have their own day and this day. It stinks of feminism, I totally agree what this day is all about just can't get my head around why males are discluded. There's a lot of rampant, aggressive feminists out there for whom men deserve no consideration at all. OK, a lot of men don't deserve any consideration but in their militancy, some feminists undermine their cause.fuck me, I've actually agreed with something you said " I see and agree with that too. What I don't get is why that seems to mean for some that any feminist action must therefore be militant. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment. They shouldn't. I will say again this day is not about domestic violence alone though. but where is the day for men against violence. We had men's day the other week, but women have their own day and this day. It stinks of feminism, I totally agree what this day is all about just can't get my head around why males are discluded. There's a lot of rampant, aggressive feminists out there for whom men deserve no consideration at all. OK, a lot of men don't deserve any consideration but in their militancy, some feminists undermine their cause.fuck me, I've actually agreed with something you said I see and agree with that too. What I don't get is why that seems to mean for some that any feminist action must therefore be militant. " i dont think anyone is that feminist action MUST be militant. But the minority who are reflect on all, ths same as in any walk of life. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment. They shouldn't. I will say again this day is not about domestic violence alone though. but where is the day for men against violence. We had men's day the other week, but women have their own day and this day. It stinks of feminism, I totally agree what this day is all about just can't get my head around why males are discluded. There's a lot of rampant, aggressive feminists out there for whom men deserve no consideration at all. OK, a lot of men don't deserve any consideration but in their militancy, some feminists undermine their cause.fuck me, I've actually agreed with something you said I see and agree with that too. What I don't get is why that seems to mean for some that any feminist action must therefore be militant. i dont think anyone is that feminist action MUST be militant. But the minority who are reflect on all, ths same as in any walk of life." And, as in all walks of life, it's the extremists who get the publicity. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact." men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact. men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think." DB pointed out her post was about gendered violence - violence to women for being women. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact. men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think. DB pointed out her post was about gendered violence - violence to women for being women. " I can see that but to state that it does not happen to men. where is the evidence to support that claim. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact. men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think. DB pointed out her post was about gendered violence - violence to women for being women. I can see that but to state that it does not happen to men. where is the evidence to support that claim." Read the third paragraph again. Nowhere does she say men don't suffer gender violence that I can see. She is saying that this is about the gender violence that affects women. Examples of male gendered violence, because men are male, would be useful to see what you are referring to. Other than war (which affects women too) and circumcision and gang warfare (which also affects women) I am struggling to think of specific violence aimed at men because they are men. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact. men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think. DB pointed out her post was about gendered violence - violence to women for being women. I can see that but to state that it does not happen to men. where is the evidence to support that claim." Again I shall explain. You have missed the point. YES violence DOES happen to men - but not BECAUSE they are men. Women, globally (around the world not just this country) suffer violence because of their GENDER - that is simply because they are FEMALE. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'd like to see a global view on violence against anyone. Women get the most press but there's a lot of hidden suffering amongst men." you took the words out of my mouth. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact. men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think. DB pointed out her post was about gendered violence - violence to women for being women. I can see that but to state that it does not happen to men. where is the evidence to support that claim." Name one type of violence that occurs to men just because they are men. Honour killings happen to women because they are women. Female genital mutilate obviously only happens to women. Stoning for being the victim of sexual assault happens to women. In China, female babies can be murdered because families want a boy. What type of violence affects men just for being men? That is why this day is for women. To highlight things that happen JUST BECAUSE they are women. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact. men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think. DB pointed out her post was about gendered violence - violence to women for being women. I can see that but to state that it does not happen to men. where is the evidence to support that claim. Read the third paragraph again. Nowhere does she say men don't suffer gender violence that I can see. She is saying that this is about the gender violence that affects women. Examples of male gendered violence, because men are male, would be useful to see what you are referring to. Other than war (which affects women too) and circumcision and gang warfare (which also affects women) I am struggling to think of specific violence aimed at men because they are men." do you wish me to quote the post ? "The simple fact is women suffer gender violence in a way men do not" If this is the case present evidence to support the statement that men do not. otherwise think more carefully. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact. men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think. DB pointed out her post was about gendered violence - violence to women for being women. I can see that but to state that it does not happen to men. where is the evidence to support that claim. Read the third paragraph again. Nowhere does she say men don't suffer gender violence that I can see. She is saying that this is about the gender violence that affects women. Examples of male gendered violence, because men are male, would be useful to see what you are referring to. Other than war (which affects women too) and circumcision and gang warfare (which also affects women) I am struggling to think of specific violence aimed at men because they are men. do you wish me to quote the post ? "The simple fact is women suffer gender violence in a way men do not" If this is the case present evidence to support the statement that men do not. otherwise think more carefully." Again, name one type of violence against men just for being men. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Examples of male gendered violence, because men are male, would be useful to see what you are referring to. Other than war (which affects women too) and circumcision and gang warfare (which also affects women) I am struggling to think of specific violence aimed at men because they are men. do you wish me to quote the post ? "The simple fact is women suffer gender violence in a way men do not" If this is the case present evidence to support the statement that men do not. otherwise think more carefully." I read "in a way men do not" in an entirely different way to you. It really would help to know what gendered violence men face. As this thread stopped being about women long ago please educate us on your point. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact. men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think. DB pointed out her post was about gendered violence - violence to women for being women. I can see that but to state that it does not happen to men. where is the evidence to support that claim. Read the third paragraph again. Nowhere does she say men don't suffer gender violence that I can see. She is saying that this is about the gender violence that affects women. Examples of male gendered violence, because men are male, would be useful to see what you are referring to. Other than war (which affects women too) and circumcision and gang warfare (which also affects women) I am struggling to think of specific violence aimed at men because they are men. do you wish me to quote the post ? "The simple fact is women suffer gender violence in a way men do not" If this is the case present evidence to support the statement that men do not. otherwise think more carefully." Male children are not murdered in China. Men are not subject to genital mutilation. Men are not stoned if sexually assaulted. Three examples of gender violence which affects women not men. This substantiates that women experience gender abuse that men do not. Your turn to name one form of violence towards men for being male. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact. men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think. DB pointed out her post was about gendered violence - violence to women for being women. I can see that but to state that it does not happen to men. where is the evidence to support that claim. Read the third paragraph again. Nowhere does she say men don't suffer gender violence that I can see. She is saying that this is about the gender violence that affects women. Examples of male gendered violence, because men are male, would be useful to see what you are referring to. Other than war (which affects women too) and circumcision and gang warfare (which also affects women) I am struggling to think of specific violence aimed at men because they are men. do you wish me to quote the post ? "The simple fact is women suffer gender violence in a way men do not" If this is the case present evidence to support the statement that men do not. otherwise think more carefully." Do you understand what is meant by 'gender violence'? It is not that someone of gender suffers violence - that makes no sense. It means that someone suffers violence BECAUSE of their gender. There is a stack of evidence going back generations for the fact that women have been targeted for violence because of their gender - that is, because they are WOMEN. There is NONE I can think of or even find that men have suffered violence because they are MEN - certainly not on the scale in terms of numbers or historically which women have. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok Lickety, recent posters seem to have proven your point that many people are simply not aware of violence women face that men do not. In this country, in this time, I am frankly astounded. "I am astounded that a thread which is about an international day about violence against women is being used to discuss violence against men as if all things are equal when the weight of evidence points to the contrary. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen." Give us an example where it does. You've been given several examples of women facing abuse that men do not. If it happens, tell us where and why. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen." Curiously, there's a plan to change the law in Scotland so that absence of evidence doesn't mean a crime didn't happen. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. Give us an example where it does. You've been given several examples of women facing abuse that men do not. If it happens, tell us where and why. " FGM for a start. With the victims mother and grandmother often colluding in the abuse. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. Curiously, there's a plan to change the law in Scotland so that absence of evidence doesn't mean a crime didn't happen. " you mean the coroboration requirement we have and may be lost as a result of political and media pressure. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen." OK in in terms of conducting an argument one needs proof of one's assertion. The onus is not on the other party to prove 'lack' of evidence of the other party. There is a wealth of evidence stretching back historically of violence against women - if you wish me to quote some I will. Now, you need to provide evidence for your assertion that men have suffered violence BECAUSE they are men - not just suffered violence - but that they have been deliberately targeted for violence because they are MALE. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. Give us an example where it does. You've been given several examples of women facing abuse that men do not. If it happens, tell us where and why. FGM for a start. With the victims mother and grandmother often colluding in the abuse." That's abuse against women! I'm asking for examples of gender abuse perpetrated against men. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. Give us an example where it does. You've been given several examples of women facing abuse that men do not. If it happens, tell us where and why. " im not disputing the existance of gender violence against women. Simply saying that to state that it doesnt happen to men, i expect to know what evidence that is based on. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. OK in in terms of conducting an argument one needs proof of one's assertion. The onus is not on the other party to prove 'lack' of evidence of the other party. There is a wealth of evidence stretching back historically of violence against women - if you wish me to quote some I will. Now, you need to provide evidence for your assertion that men have suffered violence BECAUSE they are men - not just suffered violence - but that they have been deliberately targeted for violence because they are MALE." No the onus is on the person who makes a statement to provide evidence to back it up. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"bino is arguing women should not get a day to promote awareness of abuse against women just for being women. He took offence at the statement that women suffer gender abuse in a way that women do not. He seems to think men suffer such issues too but as yet has been unable to give a single example." read back through all of my posts and you will not find any point where i have said women should not have a day to promote awareness of abuse against women. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. OK in in terms of conducting an argument one needs proof of one's assertion. The onus is not on the other party to prove 'lack' of evidence of the other party. There is a wealth of evidence stretching back historically of violence against women - if you wish me to quote some I will. Now, you need to provide evidence for your assertion that men have suffered violence BECAUSE they are men - not just suffered violence - but that they have been deliberately targeted for violence because they are MALE. No the onus is on the person who makes a statement to provide evidence to back it up." And you made a statement - you back it up. I have no problems doing so. According to WHO 1 in 3 women WORLDWIDE will experience physical or sexual abuse from a partner. Key facts: Violence against women - particularly intimate partner violence and sexual violence against women - are major public health problems and violations of women's human rights. Recent global prevalence figures indicate that 35% of women worldwide have experienced either intimate partner violence or non-partner sexual violence in their lifetime. On average, 30% of women who have been in a relationship report that they have experienced some form of physical or sexual violence by their partner. Globally, as many as 38% of murders of women are committed by an intimate partner. Violence can result in physical, mental, sexual, reproductive health and other health problems, and may increase vulnerability to HIV. Risk factors for being a perpetrator include low education, exposure to child maltreatment or witnessing violence in the family, harmful use of alcohol, attitudes accepting of violence and gender inequality. Risk factors for being a victim of intimate partner and sexual violence include low education, witnessing violence between parents, exposure to abuse during childhood and attitudes accepting violence and gender inequality. In high-income settings, school-based programmes to prevent relationship violence among young people (or dating violence) are supported by some evidence of effectiveness. In low-income settings, other primary prevention strategies, such as microfinance combined with gender equality training and community-based initiatives that address gender inequality and communication and relationship skills, hold promise. Situations of conflict, post conflict and displacement may exacerbate existing violence and present new forms of violence against women. And those are simply the facts for this year up to October and only include sexual or physical abuse. This is from Health and Human Rights: "In 1993, the UN Declaration on the Elimination of Violence against Women offered the first official definition of the term “Gender-based Violence”: “Any act of gender-based violence that results in, or is likely to result in, physical, sexual or psychological harm or suffering to women, including threats of such acts, coercion or arbitrary deprivations of liberty, whether occurring in public or in private life.” Gender-based violence has become an umbrella term for any harm that is perpetrated against a person’s will, and that results from power inequalities that are based on gender roles. Around the world, gender-based violence almost always has a greater negative impact on women and girls. For this reason the term "Gender-based Violence" is often used interchangeably with the term "Violence against Women" (VAW). GBV principally affects those across all cultures. GBV can occur throughout a woman's lifecycle, and can include everything from early childhood marriage and genital mutilation, to sexual abuse, domestic violence, legal discrimination and exploitation." I can find more if you would like. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. Give us an example where it does. You've been given several examples of women facing abuse that men do not. If it happens, tell us where and why. im not disputing the existance of gender violence against women. Simply saying that to state that it doesnt happen to men, i expect to know what evidence that is based on." No known cases! Whereas there are thousands of documented examples of such abuse against women. The evidence is a COMPLETE lack of evidence when there is a VAST amount of evidence to prove it happens against women. Can you prove it does happen? If not you have no grounds to dispute the conclusion that if it does happen it is a tiny, tiny fraction of the problem for men that it is for women. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. OK in in terms of conducting an argument one needs proof of one's assertion. The onus is not on the other party to prove 'lack' of evidence of the other party. There is a wealth of evidence stretching back historically of violence against women - if you wish me to quote some I will. Now, you need to provide evidence for your assertion that men have suffered violence BECAUSE they are men - not just suffered violence - but that they have been deliberately targeted for violence because they are MALE. No the onus is on the person who makes a statement to provide evidence to back it up. And you made a statement - you back it up. I have no problems doing so. According to WHO 1 in 3 women WORLDWIDE will experience physical or sexual abuse from a partner. Key facts: Violence against women - particularly intimate partner violence and sexual violence against women - are major public health problems and violations of women's human rights. Recent global prevalence figures indicate that 35% of women worldwide have experienced either intimate partner violence or non-partner sexual violence in their lifetime. On average, 30% of women who have been in a relationship report that they have experienced some form of physical or sexual violence by their partner. Globally, as many as 38% of murders of women are committed by an intimate partner. Violence can result in physical, mental, sexual, reproductive health and other health problems, and may increase vulnerability to HIV. Risk factors for being a perpetrator include low education, exposure to child maltreatment or witnessing violence in the family, harmful use of alcohol, attitudes accepting of violence and gender inequality. Risk factors for being a victim of intimate partner and sexual violence include low education, witnessing violence between parents, exposure to abuse during childhood and attitudes accepting violence and gender inequality. In high-income settings, school-based programmes to prevent relationship violence among young people (or dating violence) are supported by some evidence of effectiveness. In low-income settings, other primary prevention strategies, such as microfinance combined with gender equality training and community-based initiatives that address gender inequality and communication and relationship skills, hold promise. Situations of conflict, post conflict and displacement may exacerbate existing violence and present new forms of violence against women. And those are simply the facts for this year up to October and only include sexual or physical abuse. This is from Health and Human Rights: "In 1993, the UN Declaration on the Elimination of Violence against Women offered the first official definition of the term “Gender-based Violence”: “Any act of gender-based violence that results in, or is likely to result in, physical, sexual or psychological harm or suffering to women, including threats of such acts, coercion or arbitrary deprivations of liberty, whether occurring in public or in private life.” Gender-based violence has become an umbrella term for any harm that is perpetrated against a person’s will, and that results from power inequalities that are based on gender roles. Around the world, gender-based violence almost always has a greater negative impact on women and girls. For this reason the term "Gender-based Violence" is often used interchangeably with the term "Violence against Women" (VAW). GBV principally affects those across all cultures. GBV can occur throughout a woman's lifecycle, and can include everything from early childhood marriage and genital mutilation, to sexual abuse, domestic violence, legal discrimination and exploitation." I can find more if you would like." no i did not make a statement i questioned yours !! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. Give us an example where it does. You've been given several examples of women facing abuse that men do not. If it happens, tell us where and why. im not disputing the existance of gender violence against women. Simply saying that to state that it doesnt happen to men, i expect to know what evidence that is based on. No known cases! Whereas there are thousands of documented examples of such abuse against women. The evidence is a COMPLETE lack of evidence when there is a VAST amount of evidence to prove it happens against women. Can you prove it does happen? If not you have no grounds to dispute the conclusion that if it does happen it is a tiny, tiny fraction of the problem for men that it is for women. " virago i am a little bit confused here, at the begining of the thread you speak of the hidden violence against men. Now you are asking for evidence of it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have provided you with plenty of evidence of GENDERED violence against women to back up my assertion. You assert that men suffer the same GENDERED violence - please tell me what the evidence is." once again i have not asserted anything, i have questioned you stating it doesnt happen to men. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. Give us an example where it does. You've been given several examples of women facing abuse that men do not. If it happens, tell us where and why. im not disputing the existance of gender violence against women. Simply saying that to state that it doesnt happen to men, i expect to know what evidence that is based on. No known cases! Whereas there are thousands of documented examples of such abuse against women. The evidence is a COMPLETE lack of evidence when there is a VAST amount of evidence to prove it happens against women. Can you prove it does happen? If not you have no grounds to dispute the conclusion that if it does happen it is a tiny, tiny fraction of the problem for men that it is for women. virago i am a little bit confused here, at the begining of the thread you speak of the hidden violence against men. Now you are asking for evidence of it." Hidden violence against men is not GENDERED violence which is what we are discussing. Don't you understand the difference? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have provided you with plenty of evidence of GENDERED violence against women to back up my assertion. You assert that men suffer the same GENDERED violence - please tell me what the evidence is. once again i have not asserted anything, i have questioned you stating it doesnt happen to men." Because it DOES NOT happen to men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 Violence DOES happen to men - but it does not happen to them BECAUSE they are men - why can you not grasp this very simple premise? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. Give us an example where it does. You've been given several examples of women facing abuse that men do not. If it happens, tell us where and why. im not disputing the existance of gender violence against women. Simply saying that to state that it doesnt happen to men, i expect to know what evidence that is based on. No known cases! Whereas there are thousands of documented examples of such abuse against women. The evidence is a COMPLETE lack of evidence when there is a VAST amount of evidence to prove it happens against women. Can you prove it does happen? If not you have no grounds to dispute the conclusion that if it does happen it is a tiny, tiny fraction of the problem for men that it is for women. virago i am a little bit confused here, at the begining of the thread you speak of the hidden violence against men. Now you are asking for evidence of it. Hidden violence against men is not GENDERED violence which is what we are discussing. Don't you understand the difference?" do you understand that you were asked to back up the claim that it doesnt happen to men, which you have no way of doing. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Smoke and mirrors. Gender abuse against men, if it happens, does not happen on even close to the scale that it is perpetrated against women. The evidence is that there's lots of documented cases of abuse against women for being women but I can't recall hearing even one case of gender abuse against men. If it happened regularly, it would be reported in the same way as abuses against women. Again I challenge you to give us an example of violence against men for being men." virago i have not at any point claimed that it does, i have questioned the claim that it does not happen. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have provided you with plenty of evidence of GENDERED violence against women to back up my assertion. You assert that men suffer the same GENDERED violence - please tell me what the evidence is. once again i have not asserted anything, i have questioned you stating it doesnt happen to men. Because it DOES NOT happen to men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 Violence DOES happen to men - but it does not happen to them BECAUSE they are men - why can you not grasp this very simple premise?" once again you are claiming that it does not happen to men, now back that up. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have provided you with plenty of evidence of GENDERED violence against women to back up my assertion. You assert that men suffer the same GENDERED violence - please tell me what the evidence is. once again i have not asserted anything, i have questioned you stating it doesnt happen to men. Because it DOES NOT happen to men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 Violence DOES happen to men - but it does not happen to them BECAUSE they are men - why can you not grasp this very simple premise? once again you are claiming that it does not happen to men, now back that up." How do I back it up? Cannot prove a negative. However, let me put it this way - the WHO, United Nations, EU and every single western government recognise in their own policies that there is a specific category of violence - and that category is that women are attacked, raped, mutilated and murdered only because they are women. Men ARE attacked, raped, mutilated and murdered - but NOT because they are men - and that is why there is not a single policy the world over which deals with it - because it does not happen. Men are in the majority of all of these cases the perpetrators of the violence. Men do suffer DV. Men do get attacked. Men do get murdered, etc, etc. But they are usually targeted by other men in the majority of cases - apart from perhaps of DV. Men are not targeted for this because they are men, however. Now, to make your argument valid prove that they are. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have provided you with plenty of evidence of GENDERED violence against women to back up my assertion. You assert that men suffer the same GENDERED violence - please tell me what the evidence is. once again i have not asserted anything, i have questioned you stating it doesnt happen to men. Because it DOES NOT happen to men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 Violence DOES happen to men - but it does not happen to them BECAUSE they are men - why can you not grasp this very simple premise? once again you are claiming that it does not happen to men, now back that up." There are no reports. There are no reports because it does not happen. You can't prove it does happen so the clear conclusion is that it either does not or it does but on a miniscule scale. If gendered abuse against men was common there would be evidence. No evidence is the evidence that it's not. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment. They shouldn't. I will say again this day is not about domestic violence alone though. but where is the day for men against violence. We had men's day the other week, but women have their own day and this day. It stinks of feminism, I totally agree what this day is all about just can't get my head around why males are discluded. " I have to say it should be a day against domestic violence all round male or female as it happens to both. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have provided you with plenty of evidence of GENDERED violence against women to back up my assertion. You assert that men suffer the same GENDERED violence - please tell me what the evidence is. once again i have not asserted anything, i have questioned you stating it doesnt happen to men. Because it DOES NOT happen to men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 Violence DOES happen to men - but it does not happen to them BECAUSE they are men - why can you not grasp this very simple premise? once again you are claiming that it does not happen to men, now back that up. How do I back it up? Cannot prove a negative. However, let me put it this way - the WHO, United Nations, EU and every single western government recognise in their own policies that there is a specific category of violence - and that category is that women are attacked, raped, mutilated and murdered only because they are women. Men ARE attacked, raped, mutilated and murdered - but NOT because they are men - and that is why there is not a single policy the world over which deals with it - because it does not happen. Men are in the majority of all of these cases the perpetrators of the violence. Men do suffer DV. Men do get attacked. Men do get murdered, etc, etc. But they are usually targeted by other men in the majority of cases - apart from perhaps of DV. Men are not targeted for this because they are men, however. Now, to make your argument valid prove that they are. " you appear to have missed the entire point of my argument, which is and has been throughout this exchange that you have made a claim which cannot be backed up by evidence. You have now just admitted that you have no way of doing so. On that basis thank you and good night. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not going into much detail but i have experience of violence from a female so to be honest i find it insulting to have a day like this just aimed at females. I am sorry you experienced violence from anyone. Its years ago my point is in these times of so called equality one gender gets different treatment. They shouldn't. I will say again this day is not about domestic violence alone though. but where is the day for men against violence. We had men's day the other week, but women have their own day and this day. It stinks of feminism, I totally agree what this day is all about just can't get my head around why males are discluded. I have to say it should be a day against domestic violence all round male or female as it happens to both." Agreed, but it should be separate to this day because apparently some people really do need educating about the gender related violence women face that men do not. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have provided you with plenty of evidence of GENDERED violence against women to back up my assertion. You assert that men suffer the same GENDERED violence - please tell me what the evidence is. once again i have not asserted anything, i have questioned you stating it doesnt happen to men. Because it DOES NOT happen to men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 Violence DOES happen to men - but it does not happen to them BECAUSE they are men - why can you not grasp this very simple premise? once again you are claiming that it does not happen to men, now back that up. How do I back it up? Cannot prove a negative. However, let me put it this way - the WHO, United Nations, EU and every single western government recognise in their own policies that there is a specific category of violence - and that category is that women are attacked, raped, mutilated and murdered only because they are women. Men ARE attacked, raped, mutilated and murdered - but NOT because they are men - and that is why there is not a single policy the world over which deals with it - because it does not happen. Men are in the majority of all of these cases the perpetrators of the violence. Men do suffer DV. Men do get attacked. Men do get murdered, etc, etc. But they are usually targeted by other men in the majority of cases - apart from perhaps of DV. Men are not targeted for this because they are men, however. Now, to make your argument valid prove that they are. you appear to have missed the entire point of my argument, which is and has been throughout this exchange that you have made a claim which cannot be backed up by evidence. You have now just admitted that you have no way of doing so. On that basis thank you and good night." The statement does not need to be backed up by evidence. The lack of evidence is the support for the statement.  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have provided you with plenty of evidence of GENDERED violence against women to back up my assertion. You assert that men suffer the same GENDERED violence - please tell me what the evidence is. once again i have not asserted anything, i have questioned you stating it doesnt happen to men. Because it DOES NOT happen to men!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 Violence DOES happen to men - but it does not happen to them BECAUSE they are men - why can you not grasp this very simple premise? once again you are claiming that it does not happen to men, now back that up. How do I back it up? Cannot prove a negative. However, let me put it this way - the WHO, United Nations, EU and every single western government recognise in their own policies that there is a specific category of violence - and that category is that women are attacked, raped, mutilated and murdered only because they are women. Men ARE attacked, raped, mutilated and murdered - but NOT because they are men - and that is why there is not a single policy the world over which deals with it - because it does not happen. Men are in the majority of all of these cases the perpetrators of the violence. Men do suffer DV. Men do get attacked. Men do get murdered, etc, etc. But they are usually targeted by other men in the majority of cases - apart from perhaps of DV. Men are not targeted for this because they are men, however. Now, to make your argument valid prove that they are. you appear to have missed the entire point of my argument, which is and has been throughout this exchange that you have made a claim which cannot be backed up by evidence. You have now just admitted that you have no way of doing so. On that basis thank you and good night." No the evidence has to be there to prove that it DOES happen - and you know it, therefore you have simply failed to prove your assertion. If it did happen, as has been stated, every government in the west and all major organisations would have policies against it. They do not and that is the evidence that it does not happen. There is NO evidence that it does - if you insist on asserting it does then the onus is on you to provide evidence. I provided a wealth of evidence that it happens to women. You provided nothing. It is not a valid argument to make a claim and then tell people to find a 'lack' of evidence - the validity of your argument simply lies in the value of your evidence - and you have none. Therefore your argument that men suffer GENDERED violence (not simply violence which every intelligent person knows is the case) is erroneous and unfounded. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. Give us an example where it does. You've been given several examples of women facing abuse that men do not. If it happens, tell us where and why. im not disputing the existance of gender violence against women. Simply saying that to state that it doesnt happen to men, i expect to know what evidence that is based on. No known cases! Whereas there are thousands of documented examples of such abuse against women. The evidence is a COMPLETE lack of evidence when there is a VAST amount of evidence to prove it happens against women. Can you prove it does happen? If not you have no grounds to dispute the conclusion that if it does happen it is a tiny, tiny fraction of the problem for men that it is for women. virago i am a little bit confused here, at the begining of the thread you speak of the hidden violence against men. Now you are asking for evidence of it. Hidden violence against men is not GENDERED violence which is what we are discussing. Don't you understand the difference?" Apparently not. I thought it was obvious earlier in the thread but it seems it's not clear to some. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact. men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think. DB pointed out her post was about gendered violence - violence to women for being women. I can see that but to state that it does not happen to men. where is the evidence to support that claim. Read the third paragraph again. Nowhere does she say men don't suffer gender violence that I can see. She is saying that this is about the gender violence that affects women. Examples of male gendered violence, because men are male, would be useful to see what you are referring to. Other than war (which affects women too) and circumcision and gang warfare (which also affects women) I am struggling to think of specific violence aimed at men because they are men. do you wish me to quote the post ? "The simple fact is women suffer gender violence in a way men do not" If this is the case present evidence to support the statement that men do not. otherwise think more carefully. Do you understand what is meant by 'gender violence'? It is not that someone of gender suffers violence - that makes no sense. It means that someone suffers violence BECAUSE of their gender. There is a stack of evidence going back generations for the fact that women have been targeted for violence because of their gender - that is, because they are WOMEN. There is NONE I can think of or even find that men have suffered violence because they are MEN - certainly not on the scale in terms of numbers or historically which women have. " What tosh. Only women bleed, bollox. Police figures show that approx One in ten rapes go unreported because they're male on male which makes those guys suffering violence because they are men ergo gender based violence. Or does thus not count because women are raped also? You seem to be quite happy to call gender based violence against women what it is, you also appear unable to recognise the same traits in gender based violence against men and make excuses to deny its existence. Another pointless world day fir the sake of it. Yawn. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact. men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think. DB pointed out her post was about gendered violence - violence to women for being women. I can see that but to state that it does not happen to men. where is the evidence to support that claim. Read the third paragraph again. Nowhere does she say men don't suffer gender violence that I can see. She is saying that this is about the gender violence that affects women. Examples of male gendered violence, because men are male, would be useful to see what you are referring to. Other than war (which affects women too) and circumcision and gang warfare (which also affects women) I am struggling to think of specific violence aimed at men because they are men. do you wish me to quote the post ? "The simple fact is women suffer gender violence in a way men do not" If this is the case present evidence to support the statement that men do not. otherwise think more carefully. Do you understand what is meant by 'gender violence'? It is not that someone of gender suffers violence - that makes no sense. It means that someone suffers violence BECAUSE of their gender. There is a stack of evidence going back generations for the fact that women have been targeted for violence because of their gender - that is, because they are WOMEN. There is NONE I can think of or even find that men have suffered violence because they are MEN - certainly not on the scale in terms of numbers or historically which women have. What tosh. Only women bleed, bollox. Police figures show that approx One in ten rapes go unreported because they're male on male which makes those guys suffering violence because they are men ergo gender based violence. Or does thus not count because women are raped also? You seem to be quite happy to call gender based violence against women what it is, you also appear unable to recognise the same traits in gender based violence against men and make excuses to deny its existence. Another pointless world day fir the sake of it. Yawn. " It is not gender based violence. No one has denied that men suffer violence - in fact I have asserted NUMEROUS times on here that it in fact does - but that does not make it GENDERED violence. The definition of gendered violence is thus;The term “gender-based violence” refers to violence that targets individuals or groups on the basis of their gender. The United Nations’ Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights’ Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) defines it as “violence that is directed against a woman because she is a woman or that affects women disproportionately”, in its General Recommendation 19. And that is taken from the UN. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I shall try again to explain what I mean. The day is called ' International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women'. This is NOT simply about domestic violence. This is about the violence which women all over the world suffer because they are FEMALE. In other words, this violence occurs because of their gender. For all those who seemed to think I was minimising domestic violence suffered by men, or very emotively suggested I thought it was ok for boy children to be abused - you really did miss the point of what I was trying to say. Perhaps I simply did not explain it fully enough. Yes, men do suffer domestic violence - and yes, this should be taken seriously. As should any form of child abuse. At no point have I even remotely suggested otherwise so those arguments are really irrelevant in reply to what I am arguing. The simple fact is that women suffer GENDER violence in a way which men do not - and that is what I meant by 'it is not a level playing field'. It simply isn't. Thousands of women suffer violence, abuse and death merely for the fact that they are women. That is an inescapable fact. men do not suffer gender violence!!! are you deluded. there are plenty of men who suffer violence inflicted by both genders. as for your attempts to explain (and justify) that this is not only about domestic violence but all violence, let me assure you that this applies to both genders. go and have a wee think. DB pointed out her post was about gendered violence - violence to women for being women. I can see that but to state that it does not happen to men. where is the evidence to support that claim. Read the third paragraph again. Nowhere does she say men don't suffer gender violence that I can see. She is saying that this is about the gender violence that affects women. Examples of male gendered violence, because men are male, would be useful to see what you are referring to. Other than war (which affects women too) and circumcision and gang warfare (which also affects women) I am struggling to think of specific violence aimed at men because they are men. do you wish me to quote the post ? "The simple fact is women suffer gender violence in a way men do not" If this is the case present evidence to support the statement that men do not. otherwise think more carefully. Do you understand what is meant by 'gender violence'? It is not that someone of gender suffers violence - that makes no sense. It means that someone suffers violence BECAUSE of their gender. There is a stack of evidence going back generations for the fact that women have been targeted for violence because of their gender - that is, because they are WOMEN. There is NONE I can think of or even find that men have suffered violence because they are MEN - certainly not on the scale in terms of numbers or historically which women have. What tosh. Only women bleed, bollox. Police figures show that approx One in ten rapes go unreported because they're male on male which makes those guys suffering violence because they are men ergo gender based violence. Or does thus not count because women are raped also? You seem to be quite happy to call gender based violence against women what it is, you also appear unable to recognise the same traits in gender based violence against men and make excuses to deny its existence. Another pointless world day fir the sake of it. Yawn. " Pointless?
Yes, sexual assault doesn't count because it's not gender specific.
FGM affects only women. Honour killings affect only women. Only female babies in China are routinely killed.
These are the sorts of issues this day is about.
There are no cases I can think of of violence aimed at men just for being men.
Nobody denies men experience violence but the types of violence men experience are not exclusive to men and are not because they are men.
Today is about the multiple types of violence aimed just at women because they are women.
I never realised so many people would be unaware that issues such as FGM and honour killings have no equivalents for men. I'm genuinely surprised, and shocked. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" What tosh. Only women bleed, bollox. Police figures show that approx One in ten rapes go unreported because they're male on male which makes those guys suffering violence because they are men ergo gender based violence. Or does thus not count because women are raped also? You seem to be quite happy to call gender based violence against women what it is, you also appear unable to recognise the same traits in gender based violence against men and make excuses to deny its existence. Another pointless world day fir the sake of it. Yawn. " lovin this emancipation of the sexes YAY. you realise - if you'd have read the thread - it is gendered violence, not general violence. Gendered violence is violence specifically aimed at women for being women. Not a woman walking down the street and getting mugged - as any man could. Very interesting thread. And an education (if you can take on the idea of it). The whole world seems to have at least. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen." I have asked you to give me the examples you can think of. I gave you the ones I could think of for men. Nowhere have I argued that a lack of evidence means it doesn't exist - it means that evidence doesn't exist. There is lots of evidence for gender violence against women but it doesn't give the whole picture and new things come up all of the time. Congratulations for making this predominantly about men. It would seem it's a mans world even to define what the discussion should be about. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. I have asked you to give me the examples you can think of. I gave you the ones I could think of for men. Nowhere have I argued that a lack of evidence means it doesn't exist - it means that evidence doesn't exist. There is lots of evidence for gender violence against women but it doesn't give the whole picture and new things come up all of the time. Congratulations for making this predominantly about men. It would seem it's a mans world even to define what the discussion should be about. " And that is precisely why I commented on the thread. It took no time at all for the thread to be turned into one about violence against men. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Congratulations for making this predominantly about men. It would seem it's a mans world even to define what the discussion should be about. " I think you and DB and lit up the stage reasonably well. If anything knocked a few heads | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" What tosh. Only women bleed, bollox. Police figures show that approx One in ten rapes go unreported because they're male on male which makes those guys suffering violence because they are men ergo gender based violence. Or does thus not count because women are raped also? You seem to be quite happy to call gender based violence against women what it is, you also appear unable to recognise the same traits in gender based violence against men and make excuses to deny its existence. Another pointless world day fir the sake of it. Yawn. lovin this emancipation of the sexes YAY. you realise - if you'd have read the thread - it is gendered violence, not general violence. Gendered violence is violence specifically aimed at women for being women. Not a woman walking down the street and getting mugged - as any man could. Very interesting thread. And an education (if you can take on the idea of it). The whole world seems to have at least. " Thanks for your contribution. It is refreshing after a day trying to get what I thought was a simple point across. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" What tosh. Only women bleed, bollox. Police figures show that approx One in ten rapes go unreported because they're male on male which makes those guys suffering violence because they are men ergo gender based violence. Or does thus not count because women are raped also? You seem to be quite happy to call gender based violence against women what it is, you also appear unable to recognise the same traits in gender based violence against men and make excuses to deny its existence. Another pointless world day fir the sake of it. Yawn. lovin this emancipation of the sexes YAY. you realise - if you'd have read the thread - it is gendered violence, not general violence. Gendered violence is violence specifically aimed at women for being women. Not a woman walking down the street and getting mugged - as any man could. Very interesting thread. And an education (if you can take on the idea of it). The whole world seems to have at least. Thanks for your contribution. It is refreshing after a day trying to get what I thought was a simple point across." I think people may have either chosen to ignore the point or deliberately misunderstood it for their own agenda. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok Lickety, recent posters seem to have proven your point that many people are simply not aware of violence women face that men do not. In this country, in this time, I am frankly astounded. "After the morning posts I rather sadly conceded that this would be a debate about men thus rather proving the point of why there needs to be a day dedicated to awareness raising and campaigning for women. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" What tosh. Only women bleed, bollox. Police figures show that approx One in ten rapes go unreported because they're male on male which makes those guys suffering violence because they are men ergo gender based violence. Or does thus not count because women are raped also? You seem to be quite happy to call gender based violence against women what it is, you also appear unable to recognise the same traits in gender based violence against men and make excuses to deny its existence. Another pointless world day fir the sake of it. Yawn. lovin this emancipation of the sexes YAY. you realise - if you'd have read the thread - it is gendered violence, not general violence. Gendered violence is violence specifically aimed at women for being women. Not a woman walking down the street and getting mugged - as any man could. Very interesting thread. And an education (if you can take on the idea of it). The whole world seems to have at least. Thanks for your contribution. It is refreshing after a day trying to get what I thought was a simple point across. I think people may have either chosen to ignore the point or deliberately misunderstood it for their own agenda." I got that. The messages to my inbox rather confirm that too. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok Lickety, recent posters seem to have proven your point that many people are simply not aware of violence women face that men do not. In this country, in this time, I am frankly astounded.
After the morning posts I rather sadly conceded that this would be a debate about men thus rather proving the point of why there needs to be a day dedicated to awareness raising and campaigning for women.
"I made my first post at lunchtime at work. Couldn't get online then till I got home but I just couldn't let it go! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ok Lickety, recent posters seem to have proven your point that many people are simply not aware of violence women face that men do not. In this country, in this time, I am frankly astounded.
After the morning posts I rather sadly conceded that this would be a debate about men thus rather proving the point of why there needs to be a day dedicated to awareness raising and campaigning for women.
"Well my eyes are now opened. I'm | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'd like to see a global view on violence against anyone. Women get the most press but there's a lot of hidden suffering amongst men." Totally agree, as a victim as a man. Violence is wrong, full stop. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'd like to see a global view on violence against anyone. Women get the most press but there's a lot of hidden suffering amongst men. Totally agree, as a victim as a man. Violence is wrong, full stop." Couldn't agree more but this is not what the thread has been about. Some interesting argument on here about what constitutes gender-based violence. Certainly shocking that it is still the case globally in the 21st century. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you suggesting that lack of evidence means it does not happen. I have asked you to give me the examples you can think of. I gave you the ones I could think of for men. Nowhere have I argued that a lack of evidence means it doesn't exist - it means that evidence doesn't exist. There is lots of evidence for gender violence against women but it doesn't give the whole picture and new things come up all of the time. Congratulations for making this predominantly about men. It would seem it's a mans world even to define what the discussion should be about. " The lack of evidence does, however, tend to suggest there's no need for an awareness day for gender-related violence against men, since we're not aware of any problems to spread awareness of! Doesn't mean we shouldn't promote awareness of the gender-related abuses of women of which we're well aware. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is also increasing amount of men that are suffering DV but a lot go unreported there are far more support network for women to flee then men because far more women are suffering from DV then men...I can't remember the stats for domestic homicide but it's quite a few women that die a week and there are a number of men...I had to flee 3 times because my ex found me in various places due to a friend who had light lips..." DV is just wrong. End of. If anything they should only be violent when backing you up. Not doi g it against you. Secondly as a lot go unreported how can anyone say women suffer more than men. If no one reports men suffering  . If I had a mate like the one that spoke to your ex. I wouldn't call them a mate and ditch all contact with them and depending on the circumstances I would tell them why too.
This thread brings up another arguments of mine.
1. If a guy hits or hurts a woman they are classed lowest of the low. Yet what can one do if being attacked?
2. Does Man handling (non sexual way) class the same as being violent? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'd like to see a global view on violence against anyone. Women get the most press but there's a lot of hidden suffering amongst men. Totally agree, as a victim as a man. Violence is wrong, full stop. Couldn't agree more but this is not what the thread has been about. Some interesting argument on here about what constitutes gender-based violence. Certainly shocking that it is still the case globally in the 21st century." I honestly thought the distinction was clear enough that we should be able, (as people, not specifically as individuals), to consider the two alongside one another. I was about as wrong as I possibly could have been. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is also increasing amount of men that are suffering DV but a lot go unreported there are far more support network for women to flee then men because far more women are suffering from DV then men...I can't remember the stats for domestic homicide but it's quite a few women that die a week and there are a number of men...I had to flee 3 times because my ex found me in various places due to a friend who had light lips... DV is just wrong. End of. If anything they should only be violent when backing you up. Not doi g it against you. Secondly as a lot go unreported how can anyone say women suffer more than men. If no one reports men suffering . If I had a mate like the one that spoke to your ex. I wouldn't call them a mate and ditch all contact with them and depending on the circumstances I would tell them why too.
This thread brings up another arguments of mine.
1. If a guy hits or hurts a woman they are classed lowest of the low. Yet what can one do if being attacked?
2. Does Man handling (non sexual way) class the same as being violent? "That's not really the point of the thread. Maybe there should be a thread about DV against men as it seems to be quite an emotive topic. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is also increasing amount of men that are suffering DV but a lot go unreported there are far more support network for women to flee then men because far more women are suffering from DV then men...I can't remember the stats for domestic homicide but it's quite a few women that die a week and there are a number of men...I had to flee 3 times because my ex found me in various places due to a friend who had light lips... DV is just wrong. End of. If anything they should only be violent when backing you up. Not doi g it against you. Secondly as a lot go unreported how can anyone say women suffer more than men. If no one reports men suffering . If I had a mate like the one that spoke to your ex. I wouldn't call them a mate and ditch all contact with them and depending on the circumstances I would tell them why too.
This thread brings up another arguments of mine.
1. If a guy hits or hurts a woman they are classed lowest of the low. Yet what can one do if being attacked?
2. Does Man handling (non sexual way) class the same as being violent?
That's not really the point of the thread. Maybe there should be a thread about DV against men
as it seems to be quite an emotive topic."Noted. Will post one now | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is also increasing amount of men that are suffering DV but a lot go unreported there are far more support network for women to flee then men because far more women are suffering from DV then men...I can't remember the stats for domestic homicide but it's quite a few women that die a week and there are a number of men...I had to flee 3 times because my ex found me in various places due to a friend who had light lips... DV is just wrong. End of. If anything they should only be violent when backing you up. Not doi g it against you. Secondly as a lot go unreported how can anyone say women suffer more than men. If no one reports men suffering . If I had a mate like the one that spoke to your ex. I wouldn't call them a mate and ditch all contact with them and depending on the circumstances I would tell them why too.
This thread brings up another arguments of mine.
1. If a guy hits or hurts a woman they are classed lowest of the low. Yet what can one do if being attacked?
2. Does Man handling (non sexual way) class the same as being violent? "Please don't drag this back to DV. It just confuses things. Forget DV. This is about a different type of violence. I was wrong to suggest we should be able to see different types of violence for what they are and consider them all alongside one another. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is also increasing amount of men that are suffering DV but a lot go unreported there are far more support network for women to flee then men because far more women are suffering from DV then men...I can't remember the stats for domestic homicide but it's quite a few women that die a week and there are a number of men...I had to flee 3 times because my ex found me in various places due to a friend who had light lips... DV is just wrong. End of. If anything they should only be violent when backing you up. Not doi g it against you. Secondly as a lot go unreported how can anyone say women suffer more than men. If no one reports men suffering . If I had a mate like the one that spoke to your ex. I wouldn't call them a mate and ditch all contact with them and depending on the circumstances I would tell them why too.
This thread brings up another arguments of mine.
1. If a guy hits or hurts a woman they are classed lowest of the low. Yet what can one do if being attacked?
2. Does Man handling (non sexual way) class the same as being violent?
That's not really the point of the thread. Maybe there should be a thread about DV against men
as it seems to be quite an emotive topic.
Noted. Will post one now "Good idea - thanks. Will take a look at it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is also increasing amount of men that are suffering DV but a lot go unreported there are far more support network for women to flee then men because far more women are suffering from DV then men...I can't remember the stats for domestic homicide but it's quite a few women that die a week and there are a number of men...I had to flee 3 times because my ex found me in various places due to a friend who had light lips... DV is just wrong. End of. If anything they should only be violent when backing you up. Not doi g it against you. Secondly as a lot go unreported how can anyone say women suffer more than men. If no one reports men suffering . If I had a mate like the one that spoke to your ex. I wouldn't call them a mate and ditch all contact with them and depending on the circumstances I would tell them why too.
This thread brings up another arguments of mine.
1. If a guy hits or hurts a woman they are classed lowest of the low. Yet what can one do if being attacked?
2. Does Man handling (non sexual way) class the same as being violent?
That's not really the point of the thread. Maybe there should be a thread about DV against men as it seems to be quite an emotive topic." It's definitely not talked about enough.
I've seen at least 2 FGM threads on here just recently but rarely is DV against males even mentioned. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"There is also increasing amount of men that are suffering DV but a lot go unreported there are far more support network for women to flee then men because far more women are suffering from DV then men...I can't remember the stats for domestic homicide but it's quite a few women that die a week and there are a number of men...I had to flee 3 times because my ex found me in various places due to a friend who had light lips... DV is just wrong. End of. If anything they should only be violent when backing you up. Not doi g it against you. Secondly as a lot go unreported how can anyone say women suffer more than men. If no one reports men suffering . If I had a mate like the one that spoke to your ex. I wouldn't call them a mate and ditch all contact with them and depending on the circumstances I would tell them why too.
This thread brings up another arguments of mine.
1. If a guy hits or hurts a woman they are classed lowest of the low. Yet what can one do if being attacked?
2. Does Man handling (non sexual way) class the same as being violent?
That's not really the point of the thread. Maybe there should be a thread about DV against men
as it seems to be quite an emotive topic.
Noted. Will post one now
Good idea - thanks. Will take a look at it."Been posted | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I do not, nor ever have, condoned violence towards anyone. Not towards men, women, children of either sex or their pets. I did not start this thread to condone or ignore violence towards men. I almost considered starting a thread to discuss violence against men but today is not the day and this thread had become about men. I raise awareness about a range of issues, here and elsewhere. Some of you think it is inappropriate of me and can choose to ignore my threads. Some exercise their freedom to post their views and that is welcome. When I am able I do try and retain a responsibility to the threads I start and engage in that debate and steer it back to the reason for starting the thread. Those of you who feel I am a rampant feminist and need to be brought down please do it here where everyone can see and not to my inbox. I will be reporting any further abuse to me because of the views I hold rather than ignoring, blocking and deleting your message. Those that feel that the views I hold make me unsuitable to communicate with, that is fine with me. I will argue my corner without breaking the rules and stick to my point. Intelligent debate can take all the points raised but continued assertions about men being included and not addressing the point of why this day is necessary made this thread less than an intelligent debate. For that I am disappointed. I champion the rights of men too and have argued against inequality where I have seen this. The boys in my life will have to face the world too, just as the girls in my life with. I would rather their lives didn't have to include having the same debates about equality. We are not at that point yet. I hope we can all evolve to get to that point. " I think it is appalling for you to be messaged privately (and cowardly of those who do) to be taken to task. And to be accused of rampant feminism - well rampant feminists got women many of the rights they enjoy and take for granted today - so hooray to them. I class myself as feminist. It is not an insult and anyone who wanted to use it as an insult against me would really be missing the point! I thought that this was a thoughtfully posted thread and was looking forward to posting on it, but I was not going to allow some to simply hijack it for their own ulterior motives. Too many times women are shot down and silenced and it is depressing that it still happens in this millennium. Don't stop posting thoughtful threads. You are worthy of them and I always enjoy them even if I do not get involved. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"GrannyFucious she say ...... sometimes Lickey , DB and VV ..... effort is like pissing in the wind. " LOL wondered why my eyes were stinging | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"GrannyFucious she say ...... sometimes Lickey , DB and VV ..... effort is like pissing in the wind. " To be fair I was partly responsible for the thread derailing in the first place. I underestimated the need for a specific awareness day of this type. I didn't believe anyone would use DV against men to dismiss horrific violence towards and abuse of women. Once I realised my mistake I felt I had to try to clarify things. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Think bino just got PWND fuckin ell fella. If you say its happening against men - show some stats. People arent able to show stats or they would be supporting your argument. You are saying it exists so prove it instead of digging holes (unsuccessfully) through rhetoric. I could say there are yellow elephants floating around space with trumpets and BMW's .. mind you I'd get laughed at unless I could prove it. You are doing the exact same - why not just admit you got the wrong end of the stick and man up. "let me be clear on this one last time, i did not say that gender abuse against men does occur. I challenged someone who said it doesnt to provide evidence which backs up that statement. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Think bino just got PWND fuckin ell fella. If you say its happening against men - show some stats. People arent able to show stats or they would be supporting your argument. You are saying it exists so prove it instead of digging holes (unsuccessfully) through rhetoric. I could say there are yellow elephants floating around space with trumpets and BMW's .. mind you I'd get laughed at unless I could prove it. You are doing the exact same - why not just admit you got the wrong end of the stick and man up.
let me be clear on this one last time, i did not say that gender abuse against men does occur. I challenged someone who said it doesnt to provide evidence which backs up that statement."And yet again you utterly fail to get the point and understand how to really argue. That point has been answered THREE times - but please feel free to continue to labour it to death. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Think bino just got PWND fuckin ell fella. If you say its happening against men - show some stats. People arent able to show stats or they would be supporting your argument. You are saying it exists so prove it instead of digging holes (unsuccessfully) through rhetoric. I could say there are yellow elephants floating around space with trumpets and BMW's .. mind you I'd get laughed at unless I could prove it. You are doing the exact same - why not just admit you got the wrong end of the stick and man up.
let me be clear on this one last time, i did not say that gender abuse against men does occur. I challenged someone who said it doesnt to provide evidence which backs up that statement.
And yet again you utterly fail to get the point and understand how to really argue. That point has been answered THREE times - but please feel free to continue to labour it to death."sorry i must have missed the evidence which proves gender violence against men doesnt happen, perhaps you could answer that one last time for me. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Think bino just got PWND fuckin ell fella. If you say its happening against men - show some stats. People arent able to show stats or they would be supporting your argument. You are saying it exists so prove it instead of digging holes (unsuccessfully) through rhetoric. I could say there are yellow elephants floating around space with trumpets and BMW's .. mind you I'd get laughed at unless I could prove it. You are doing the exact same - why not just admit you got the wrong end of the stick and man up.
let me be clear on this one last time, i did not say that gender abuse against men does occur. I challenged someone who said it doesnt to provide evidence which backs up that statement.
And yet again you utterly fail to get the point and understand how to really argue. That point has been answered THREE times - but please feel free to continue to labour it to death.
sorry i must have missed the evidence which proves gender violence against men doesnt happen, perhaps you could answer that one last time for me."The horse died several hours ago. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Think bino just got PWND fuckin ell fella. If you say its happening against men - show some stats. People arent able to show stats or they would be supporting your argument. You are saying it exists so prove it instead of digging holes (unsuccessfully) through rhetoric. I could say there are yellow elephants floating around space with trumpets and BMW's .. mind you I'd get laughed at unless I could prove it. You are doing the exact same - why not just admit you got the wrong end of the stick and man up.
let me be clear on this one last time, i did not say that gender abuse against men does occur. I challenged someone who said it doesnt to provide evidence which backs up that statement.
And yet again you utterly fail to get the point and understand how to really argue. That point has been answered THREE times - but please feel free to continue to labour it to death.
sorry i must have missed the evidence which proves gender violence against men doesnt happen, perhaps you could answer that one last time for me.
The horse died several hours ago.
"superb way to prove the point, well done | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Think bino just got PWND fuckin ell fella. If you say its happening against men - show some stats. People arent able to show stats or they would be supporting your argument. You are saying it exists so prove it instead of digging holes (unsuccessfully) through rhetoric. I could say there are yellow elephants floating around space with trumpets and BMW's .. mind you I'd get laughed at unless I could prove it. You are doing the exact same - why not just admit you got the wrong end of the stick and man up.
let me be clear on this one last time, i did not say that gender abuse against men does occur. I challenged someone who said it doesnt to provide evidence which backs up that statement.
And yet again you utterly fail to get the point and understand how to really argue. That point has been answered THREE times - but please feel free to continue to labour it to death.
sorry i must have missed the evidence which proves gender violence against men doesnt happen, perhaps you could answer that one last time for me."You do not have a clue how to engage in a thoughtful argument. Go back and re-read all posts and then trying engaging a little grey matter. Mind you - your intention was to make the thread all about YOU and violence against men wasn't it? Just open your own thread if you feel that strongly. Ooops there already is one - but I see you have ignored it. Best to just keep trying to silence the girls, eh? I will reiterate. YOU are making the claim that men suffer gender-based violence yet you insist that proof is provided that it does not happen. Can you not understand how FOOLISH that insistence is - really? Can you NOT see that? If you insist it DOES happen - YOU prove your OWN assertion. There is NO evidence that it happens. NONE. And you well know it or you would have provided it. Therefore, without the weight of proof for YOUR argument - there IS no argument. Silly, ridiculous - and totally destroying the thread - well done! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I do not, nor ever have, condoned violence towards anyone. Not towards men, women, children of either sex or their pets. I did not start this thread to condone or ignore violence towards men. I almost considered starting a thread to discuss violence against men but today is not the day and this thread had become about men. I raise awareness about a range of issues, here and elsewhere. Some of you think it is inappropriate of me and can choose to ignore my threads. Some exercise their freedom to post their views and that is welcome. When I am able I do try and retain a responsibility to the threads I start and engage in that debate and steer it back to the reason for starting the thread. Those of you who feel I am a rampant feminist and need to be brought down please do it here where everyone can see and not to my inbox. I will be reporting any further abuse to me because of the views I hold rather than ignoring, blocking and deleting your message. Those that feel that the views I hold make me unsuitable to communicate with, that is fine with me. I will argue my corner without breaking the rules and stick to my point. Intelligent debate can take all the points raised but continued assertions about men being included and not addressing the point of why this day is necessary made this thread less than an intelligent debate. For that I am disappointed. I champion the rights of men too and have argued against inequality where I have seen this. The boys in my life will have to face the world too, just as the girls in my life with. I would rather their lives didn't have to include having the same debates about equality. We are not at that point yet. I hope we can all evolve to get to that point. I think it is appalling for you to be messaged privately (and cowardly of those who do) to be taken to task. And to be accused of rampant feminism - well rampant feminists got women many of the rights they enjoy and take for granted today - so hooray to them. I class myself as feminist. It is not an insult and anyone who wanted to use it as an insult against me would really be missing the point! I thought that this was a thoughtfully posted thread and was looking forward to posting on it, but I was not going to allow some to simply hijack it for their own ulterior motives. Too many times women are shot down and silenced and it is depressing that it still happens in this millennium. Don't stop posting thoughtful threads. You are worthy of them and I always enjoy them even if I do not get involved. " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Think bino just got PWND fuckin ell fella. If you say its happening against men - show some stats. People arent able to show stats or they would be supporting your argument. You are saying it exists so prove it instead of digging holes (unsuccessfully) through rhetoric. I could say there are yellow elephants floating around space with trumpets and BMW's .. mind you I'd get laughed at unless I could prove it. You are doing the exact same - why not just admit you got the wrong end of the stick and man up.
let me be clear on this one last time, i did not say that gender abuse against men does occur. I challenged someone who said it doesnt to provide evidence which backs up that statement.
And yet again you utterly fail to get the point and understand how to really argue. That point has been answered THREE times - but please feel free to continue to labour it to death.
sorry i must have missed the evidence which proves gender violence against men doesnt happen, perhaps you could answer that one last time for me.
You do not have a clue how to engage in a thoughtful argument. Go back and re-read all posts and then trying engaging a little grey matter.
Mind you - your intention was to make the thread all about YOU and violence against men wasn't it? Just open your own thread if you feel that strongly. Ooops there already is one - but I see you have ignored it. Best to just keep trying to silence the girls, eh?
I will reiterate. YOU are making the claim that men suffer gender-based violence yet you insist that proof is provided that it does not happen. Can you not understand how FOOLISH that insistence is - really? Can you NOT see that? If you insist it DOES happen - YOU prove your OWN assertion. There is NO evidence that it happens. NONE. And you well know it or you would have provided it. Therefore, without the weight of proof for YOUR argument - there IS no argument.
Silly, ridiculous - and totally destroying the thread - well done!
"Really, i made it about men. Perhaps you should take your own advice and re-read the thread, take a look for the first person to talk about men you will see it wasnt me. as for me being required to prove my assertion, i have not made one. As i have stated on a number of occassions i put up a challenge to the claim that men do not suffer gender violence. A claim which is impossible to prove as a lack of evidence is not proof of non existance. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Think bino just got PWND fuckin ell fella. If you say its happening against men - show some stats. People arent able to show stats or they would be supporting your argument. You are saying it exists so prove it instead of digging holes (unsuccessfully) through rhetoric. I could say there are yellow elephants floating around space with trumpets and BMW's .. mind you I'd get laughed at unless I could prove it. You are doing the exact same - why not just admit you got the wrong end of the stick and man up.
let me be clear on this one last time, i did not say that gender abuse against men does occur. I challenged someone who said it doesnt to provide evidence which backs up that statement.
And yet again you utterly fail to get the point and understand how to really argue. That point has been answered THREE times - but please feel free to continue to labour it to death.
sorry i must have missed the evidence which proves gender violence against men doesnt happen, perhaps you could answer that one last time for me.
You do not have a clue how to engage in a thoughtful argument. Go back and re-read all posts and then trying engaging a little grey matter.
Mind you - your intention was to make the thread all about YOU and violence against men wasn't it? Just open your own thread if you feel that strongly. Ooops there already is one - but I see you have ignored it. Best to just keep trying to silence the girls, eh?
I will reiterate. YOU are making the claim that men suffer gender-based violence yet you insist that proof is provided that it does not happen. Can you not understand how FOOLISH that insistence is - really? Can you NOT see that? If you insist it DOES happen - YOU prove your OWN assertion. There is NO evidence that it happens. NONE. And you well know it or you would have provided it. Therefore, without the weight of proof for YOUR argument - there IS no argument.
Silly, ridiculous - and totally destroying the thread - well done!
Really, i made it about men. Perhaps you should take your own advice and re-read the thread, take a look for the first person to talk about men you will see it wasnt me.
as for me being required to prove my assertion, i have not made one. As i have stated on a number of occassions i put up a challenge to the claim that men do not suffer gender violence. A claim which is impossible to prove as a lack of evidence is not proof of non existance."I can't prove that there are no yetis but it is pretty evident there aren't. If you aren't making an assertion then you have no point to make. You are simply trolling the thread and have been doing so for a while. Just to remind you the OP was: "It is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. Is it possible to achieve a global view on violence against women?" | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Think bino just got PWND fuckin ell fella. If you say its happening against men - show some stats. People arent able to show stats or they would be supporting your argument. You are saying it exists so prove it instead of digging holes (unsuccessfully) through rhetoric. I could say there are yellow elephants floating around space with trumpets and BMW's .. mind you I'd get laughed at unless I could prove it. You are doing the exact same - why not just admit you got the wrong end of the stick and man up.
let me be clear on this one last time, i did not say that gender abuse against men does occur. I challenged someone who said it doesnt to provide evidence which backs up that statement.
And yet again you utterly fail to get the point and understand how to really argue. That point has been answered THREE times - but please feel free to continue to labour it to death.
sorry i must have missed the evidence which proves gender violence against men doesnt happen, perhaps you could answer that one last time for me.
You do not have a clue how to engage in a thoughtful argument. Go back and re-read all posts and then trying engaging a little grey matter.
Mind you - your intention was to make the thread all about YOU and violence against men wasn't it? Just open your own thread if you feel that strongly. Ooops there already is one - but I see you have ignored it. Best to just keep trying to silence the girls, eh?
I will reiterate. YOU are making the claim that men suffer gender-based violence yet you insist that proof is provided that it does not happen. Can you not understand how FOOLISH that insistence is - really? Can you NOT see that? If you insist it DOES happen - YOU prove your OWN assertion. There is NO evidence that it happens. NONE. And you well know it or you would have provided it. Therefore, without the weight of proof for YOUR argument - there IS no argument.
Silly, ridiculous - and totally destroying the thread - well done!
Really, i made it about men. Perhaps you should take your own advice and re-read the thread, take a look for the first person to talk about men you will see it wasnt me.
as for me being required to prove my assertion, i have not made one. As i have stated on a number of occassions i put up a challenge to the claim that men do not suffer gender violence. A claim which is impossible to prove as a lack of evidence is not proof of non existance.
I can't prove that there are no yetis but it is pretty evident there aren't. If you aren't making an assertion then you have no point to make.
You are simply trolling the thread and have been doing so for a while. Just to remind you the OP was: "It is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. Is it possible to achieve a global view on violence against women?""yes, the same view as violence against children and men they are all wrong. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It is not possible to prove or disprove that violence against men exists as the evidence is not there." How on earth can you say that there is documented evidence all over there are many many men who have been knifed and hospitalised by women to dismiss it in such a way is appalling. You seem to have a one-sided view and an agenda. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why restrict people passing comments? " because there is an challenge been made which cannot now be resolved without admitting that it was wrong to say that men do not suffer gender violence without being able to back up the claim | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why restrict people passing comments? because there is an challenge been made which cannot now be resolved without admitting that it was wrong to say that men do not suffer gender violence without being able to back up the claim" You are simply trolling the thread and have been doing so for a while. Just to remind you the OP was: "It is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. Is it possible to achieve a global view on violence against women?" Do you have anything to add to that? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why restrict people passing comments? because there is an challenge been made which cannot now be resolved without admitting that it was wrong to say that men do not suffer gender violence without being able to back up the claim" The evidence is out there in abundance you only have to go through female convictions for assault and read the case study. Anyone with a brain knows assault is not gender specific it happens to both sexes. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
Mr ddc | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| back to top |  |
