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"I think if I pulled up next to a bloke at the urinals in skirt, heels and a low cut top he'd have more of a job peeing than I would." 
Being serious for a second though, if you did, it could be a serious risk to your safety. A lot of people fear what they don't understand and there's still a lot of intolerance and misunderstanding of transgender issues. | |||
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"If a full sex change has been done then female toilets; otherwise the gents. " Why? If someone feels female and lives as a female why on Earth should they use the men's toilet just because they have the wrong part fitted? Do you honestly think it's as black and white as a penis being the only thing that makes someone a man? | |||
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"I think if I pulled up next to a bloke at the urinals in skirt, heels and a low cut top he'd have more of a job peeing than I would.
Being serious for a second though, if you did, it could be a serious risk to your safety. A lot of people fear what they don't understand and there's still a lot of intolerance and misunderstanding of transgender issues."Actually that was the point I made I. The other thread. I would have copied it but it looks like it's been deleted recently. Essentially I pointed out that trans people are most likely to be subject to abuse and violence in this situation and there have been recorded murders. I referred to the crazy law in Arizona which forbids trans people using the toilets not of their birth sex. Made by a republican man in authority. God knows how they'd police it though, employed gropers? | |||
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"I think if I pulled up next to a bloke at the urinals in skirt, heels and a low cut top he'd have more of a job peeing than I would.
Being serious for a second though, if you did, it could be a serious risk to your safety. A lot of people fear what they don't understand and there's still a lot of intolerance and misunderstanding of transgender issues.
Actually that was the point I made I. The other thread. I would have copied it but it looks like it's been deleted recently.
Essentially I pointed out that trans people are most likely to be subject to abuse and violence in this situation and there have been recorded murders.
I referred to the crazy law in Arizona which forbids trans people using the toilets not of their birth sex. Made by a republican man in authority. God knows how they'd police it though, employed gropers?
"Ah, I didn't see the other thread. | |||
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"If a full sex change has been done then female toilets; otherwise the gents. Why? If someone feels female and lives as a female why on Earth should they use the men's toilet just because they have the wrong part fitted? Do you honestly think it's as black and white as a penis being the only thing that makes someone a man?" thank you.life isnt all black and white as many people seem to think so.its not our fault if were born a bit different from other people.we only wish to be treated as we would like to be,and how many know if its a transperson anyway,unless your the sort to look under the toilet doors.can you honestly say you can see a transperson while out walking. | |||
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"At work our policy is that you use the toilets of the sex that you are, not the sex that you're born necessarily. Some of my colleagues asked why they couldn't use the disabled facilities, luckily only very few. " What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities? Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender. Offering the disabled facility as an alternative doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's not necessarily saying that someone is disabled for going through a gender change and resolves and issues people may have during mid transition | |||
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"At work our policy is that you use the toilets of the sex that you are, not the sex that you're born necessarily. Some of my colleagues asked why they couldn't use the disabled facilities, luckily only very few. What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities? Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender. Offering the disabled facility as an alternative doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's not necessarily saying that someone is disabled for going through a gender change and resolves and issues people may have during mid transition " Because precisely that which you state. I'm not disabled. I am a woman. I just happen to be a trans woman. | |||
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"What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities?"
"Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender." Their "intended" sex? Like we choose? Trans people are (usually) born male or female, the same as (usually) everyone else. They just have the wrong parts. Why single them out to feel even more different? Sorry, you may have gone through years of torment, hormones and surgery to be the person you really are, but you're still different. Get ye to the disabled toilet because you're not a "proper" woman/man. Does a few bits of skin and tubing and stuff actually make someone a different person? How would anyone even know whether someone had gone through full surgery in order to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with it? Which parts a person has is their own damned business. | |||
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"At work our policy is that you use the toilets of the sex that you are, not the sex that you're born necessarily. Some of my colleagues asked why they couldn't use the disabled facilities, luckily only very few. What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities? Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender. Offering the disabled facility as an alternative doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's not necessarily saying that someone is disabled for going through a gender change and resolves and issues people may have during mid transition Because precisely that which you state. I'm not disabled. I am a woman. I just happen to be a trans woman. " I'm not saying you're disabled 
Hypothetically speaking if someone was going through a sex change and realised that work colleagues were not comfortable yet with shareing facilities would it not be easier for someone to use the disabled facilities
I have actually worked with a tg lady and she was the most considerate person ever. No one questioned her using the ladies room but she herself chose to use the disabled toilets whilst she was still going through the ops and re-assignment treatment. | |||
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"What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities?
Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender.
Their "intended" sex? Like we choose? Trans people are (usually) born male or female, the same as (usually) everyone else. They just have the wrong parts. Why single them out to feel even more different? Sorry, you may have gone through years of torment, hormones and surgery to be the person you really are, but you're still different. Get ye to the disabled toilet because you're not a "proper" woman/man.
Does a few bits of skin and tubing and stuff actually make someone a different person?
How would anyone even know whether someone had gone through full surgery in order to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with it?
Which parts a person has is their own damned business.
"Please if you are going to quote something i post quote all of it and not part of it for you to then take out of context  | |||
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"Offering the disabled seems ludicrous to me. A compromise solution which demeans both those offering it and those taking it up. I still think the simple solution is best. Got a cock? Go in the gents; if not go in the ladies. If fancying a leisurely dump in spacious surroundings, take the paper and head to the disabled." still dont see how using the disabled loos is ludicrous. Im not disabled and have used them 
As for your simple solution, what if you have a cock and dress like a lady | |||
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"At work our policy is that you use the toilets of the sex that you are, not the sex that you're born necessarily. Some of my colleagues asked why they couldn't use the disabled facilities, luckily only very few. What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities? Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender. Offering the disabled facility as an alternative doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's not necessarily saying that someone is disabled for going through a gender change and resolves and issues people may have during mid transition Because precisely that which you state. I'm not disabled. I am a woman. I just happen to be a trans woman. I'm not saying you're disabled
Hypothetically speaking if someone was going through a sex change and realised that work colleagues were not comfortable yet with shareing facilities would it not be easier for someone to use the disabled facilities
I have actually worked with a tg lady and she was the most considerate person ever. No one questioned her using the ladies room but she herself chose to use the disabled toilets whilst she was still going through the ops and re-assignment treatment."I think it might be easier for the people with the prejudices, yes. Preferable, however, would be for the prejudiced and ill-informed to educate themselves and learn some tolerance of others. This sort of thinking - segregate those that are different - has happened numerous times throughout history. Examine some of those examples and see how acceptable they are. This is no different. Just another prejudice, but one that has yet to fall. | |||
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"What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities?
Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender.
Their "intended" sex? Like we choose? Trans people are (usually) born male or female, the same as (usually) everyone else. They just have the wrong parts. Why single them out to feel even more different? Sorry, you may have gone through years of torment, hormones and surgery to be the person you really are, but you're still different. Get ye to the disabled toilet because you're not a "proper" woman/man.
Does a few bits of skin and tubing and stuff actually make someone a different person?
How would anyone even know whether someone had gone through full surgery in order to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with it?
Which parts a person has is their own damned business.
Please if you are going to quote something i post quote all of it and not part of it for you to then take out of context "I quoted the relevant bit to keep the response shorter. I've not taken it out of context at all. You asked what's wrong with it and then attempted to justify the question. My reply is about what's wrong with it. The context is clear. | |||
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"Offering the disabled seems ludicrous to me. A compromise solution which demeans both those offering it and those taking it up. I still think the simple solution is best. Got a cock? Go in the gents; if not go in the ladies. If fancying a leisurely dump in spacious surroundings, take the paper and head to the disabled. still dont see how using the disabled loos is ludicrous. Im not disabled and have used them
As for your simple solution, what if you have a cock and dress like a lady "Ludicrous as a compromise solution, ie "we don't want to really make a decision so how about you just use these to avoid fuss" Either way people will be upset, I think it's a fault in the UK that we shy away from difficult decisions. I don't know the answer to this, if you have a penis but live as a woman does the law view you as a man? If so, if it is good enough for the law, it's good enough for a toilet attendant! | |||
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"At work our policy is that you use the toilets of the sex that you are, not the sex that you're born necessarily. Some of my colleagues asked why they couldn't use the disabled facilities, luckily only very few. What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities? Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender. Offering the disabled facility as an alternative doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's not necessarily saying that someone is disabled for going through a gender change and resolves and issues people may have during mid transition Because precisely that which you state. I'm not disabled. I am a woman. I just happen to be a trans woman. I'm not saying you're disabled
Hypothetically speaking if someone was going through a sex change and realised that work colleagues were not comfortable yet with shareing facilities would it not be easier for someone to use the disabled facilities
I have actually worked with a tg lady and she was the most considerate person ever. No one questioned her using the ladies room but she herself chose to use the disabled toilets whilst she was still going through the ops and re-assignment treatment.
I think it might be easier for the people with the prejudices, yes.
Preferable, however, would be for the prejudiced and ill-informed to educate themselves and learn some tolerance of others.
This sort of thinking - segregate those that are different - has happened numerous times throughout history. Examine some of those examples and see how acceptable they are. This is no different. Just another prejudice, but one that has yet to fall."Serious question - did you actually read what i wrote?? Segregate those who are different? Where did you get that from what i wrote
All i've said is offering the disabled facilities to accommodate all whilst going through the change process seemed like a reasonable idea. How is that segregating? | |||
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"Offering the disabled seems ludicrous to me. A compromise solution which demeans both those offering it and those taking it up. I still think the simple solution is best. Got a cock? Go in the gents; if not go in the ladies. If fancying a leisurely dump in spacious surroundings, take the paper and head to the disabled." Not that it's anyone's business really but I'm pre-op. Do you really think I should go into the male toilets looking like I do. I did that quite recently when I attended my Nan's funeral which as a sign of respect for her I went in male mode as she hadn't known me as Penny. You should have seen the weird looks I was getting when I was washing my hands in the loos at the services on the way then. I would definitely not feel comfortable if I'd walked in how I normally dress. | |||
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" Which toilet should trans people use? I would say the one that matches the clothes they are wearing that day. Female toilet if dressed as a female." So Fred or Dave could stick a dress on and happily use the Ladies loo's and Women should be fine with that ? "I know kids may have an issue with it but that is only because they learned it from parents/ family/ friends. Kids are not born bigots." So someone who say has a daughter, 7 to 10 year old, dad lets daughter go into the Ladies toilets on their own while they stand outside but Dave's in there in his frock.... is dad a bigot to have concerns about that situation ? "Do you honestly think it's as black and white as a penis being the only thing that makes someone a man?" A male  organism is the physiological sex which produces sperm.
The XY sex-determination system is the sex-determination system found in humans, most other mammals, some insects (Drosophila), and some plants (Ginkgo). In this system, the sex of an individual is determined by a pair of sex chromosomes (gonosomes). Females have two of the same kind of sex chromosome (XX), and are called the homogametic sex. Males have two distinct sex chromosomes (XY), and are called the heterogametic sex.
So in a short answer to you, it's an overwhelming yes I'm afraid.
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"I don't know the answer to this, if you have a penis but live as a woman does the law view you as a man? If so, if it is good enough for the law, it's good enough for a toilet attendant!" And if you find the answer is that the law can view pre-op transwomen as women, would that suddenly make it good enough for you? What do you suggest hermaphrodites do, out of interest? Are they supposed to have half a pee in one toilet then switch for the other half? Are they supposed to use the different...I mean disabled toilet too? And as yet, nobody has addressed how anyone else would know what parts another person has, or why it's any of their business. | |||
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"What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities?
Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender.
Their "intended" sex? Like we choose? Trans people are (usually) born male or female, the same as (usually) everyone else. They just have the wrong parts. Why single them out to feel even more different? Sorry, you may have gone through years of torment, hormones and surgery to be the person you really are, but you're still different. Get ye to the disabled toilet because you're not a "proper" woman/man.
Does a few bits of skin and tubing and stuff actually make someone a different person?
How would anyone even know whether someone had gone through full surgery in order to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with it?
Which parts a person has is their own damned business.
Please if you are going to quote something i post quote all of it and not part of it for you to then take out of context
I quoted the relevant bit to keep the response shorter. I've not taken it out of context at all.
You asked what's wrong with it and then attempted to justify the question. My reply is about what's wrong with it.
The context is clear. "You seem hell bent on kicking off for the sake of it. Lets just agree to disagree on this cause i do not have the time or patience to discuss something with someone who has one mindset and refuses to open their eyes to anothers point of view  | |||
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" Not that it's anyone's business really but I'm pre-op. Do you really think I should go into the male toilets looking like I do. I did that quite recently when I attended my Nan's funeral which as a sign of respect for her I went in male mode as she hadn't known me as Penny. You should have seen the weird looks I was getting when I was washing my hands in the loos at the services on the way then. I would definitely not feel comfortable if I'd walked in how I normally dress. " Thing is, some trans people look female enough to not arouse suspicion or a second glance, while Fred in a frock would. | |||
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"Offering the disabled seems ludicrous to me. A compromise solution which demeans both those offering it and those taking it up. I still think the simple solution is best. Got a cock? Go in the gents; if not go in the ladies. If fancying a leisurely dump in spacious surroundings, take the paper and head to the disabled. still dont see how using the disabled loos is ludicrous. Im not disabled and have used them
As for your simple solution, what if you have a cock and dress like a lady
Ludicrous as a compromise solution, ie "we don't want to really make a decision so how about you just use these to avoid fuss"
Either way people will be upset, I think it's a fault in the UK that we shy away from difficult decisions.
I don't know the answer to this, if you have a penis but live as a woman does the law view you as a man? If so, if it is good enough for the law, it's good enough for a toilet attendant! "Actually in the eyes of the law I'm female because I'm transitioning. | |||
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" Which toilet should trans people use? I would say the one that matches the clothes they are wearing that day. Female toilet if dressed as a female. So Fred or Dave could stick a dress on and happily use the Ladies loo's and Women should be fine with that ? I know kids may have an issue with it but that is only because they learned it from parents/ family/ friends. Kids are not born bigots. So someone who say has a daughter, 7 to 10 year old, dad lets daughter go into the Ladies toilets on their own while they stand outside but Dave's in there in his frock.... is dad a bigot to have concerns about that situation ? Do you honestly think it's as black and white as a penis being the only thing that makes someone a man? A male organism is the physiological sex which produces sperm.
The XY sex-determination system is the sex-determination system found in humans, most other mammals, some insects (Drosophila), and some plants (Ginkgo). In this system, the sex of an individual is determined by a pair of sex chromosomes (gonosomes). Females have two of the same kind of sex chromosome (XX), and are called the homogametic sex. Males have two distinct sex chromosomes (XY), and are called the heterogametic sex.
So in a short answer to you, it's an overwhelming yes I'm afraid.
"Oh really want to explain XXY genes to us then? | |||
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"At work our policy is that you use the toilets of the sex that you are, not the sex that you're born necessarily. Some of my colleagues asked why they couldn't use the disabled facilities, luckily only very few. What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities? Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender. Offering the disabled facility as an alternative doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's not necessarily saying that someone is disabled for going through a gender change and resolves and issues people may have during mid transition " I typed out a whole response but deleted it. It's a thorny subject and peopel will have lots of opinions but basically being a woman or a man isn't a disability and no one should feel that it is. Its down to education to combat prejudice, fear and misinformation on BOTH sides. | |||
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"At work our policy is that you use the toilets of the sex that you are, not the sex that you're born necessarily. Some of my colleagues asked why they couldn't use the disabled facilities, luckily only very few. What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities? Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender. Offering the disabled facility as an alternative doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's not necessarily saying that someone is disabled for going through a gender change and resolves and issues people may have during mid transition Because precisely that which you state. I'm not disabled. I am a woman. I just happen to be a trans woman. I'm not saying you're disabled
Hypothetically speaking if someone was going through a sex change and realised that work colleagues were not comfortable yet with shareing facilities would it not be easier for someone to use the disabled facilities
I have actually worked with a tg lady and she was the most considerate person ever. No one questioned her using the ladies room but she herself chose to use the disabled toilets whilst she was still going through the ops and re-assignment treatment.
I think it might be easier for the people with the prejudices, yes.
Preferable, however, would be for the prejudiced and ill-informed to educate themselves and learn some tolerance of others.
This sort of thinking - segregate those that are different - has happened numerous times throughout history. Examine some of those examples and see how acceptable they are. This is no different. Just another prejudice, but one that has yet to fall.
Serious question - did you actually read what i wrote??
Segregate those who are different? Where did you get that from what i wrote
All i've said is offering the disabled facilities to accommodate all whilst going through the change process seemed like a reasonable idea. How is that segregating?"Yes, I've read every word. A lot of them in absolute disbelief. The suggestion that pre-op transpeople use the disabled toilets wasn't that they were "offered" that option but were expected to use that option. Choosing to use a disabled toilet (or sit at the back of a bus) is very different from being told to, and expected to use a disabled toilet (or sit at the back of a bus). There's no point trying to explain this to people who have to ask what is wrong with expecting a transperson to use the disabled toilet though. Even asking the question indicates an inability or unwilingness to understand the answer. | |||
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"What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities?
Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender.
Their "intended" sex? Like we choose? Trans people are (usually) born male or female, the same as (usually) everyone else. They just have the wrong parts. Why single them out to feel even more different? Sorry, you may have gone through years of torment, hormones and surgery to be the person you really are, but you're still different. Get ye to the disabled toilet because you're not a "proper" woman/man.
Does a few bits of skin and tubing and stuff actually make someone a different person?
How would anyone even know whether someone had gone through full surgery in order to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with it?
Which parts a person has is their own damned business.
Please if you are going to quote something i post quote all of it and not part of it for you to then take out of context
I quoted the relevant bit to keep the response shorter. I've not taken it out of context at all.
You asked what's wrong with it and then attempted to justify the question. My reply is about what's wrong with it.
The context is clear.
You seem hell bent on kicking off for the sake of it.
Lets just agree to disagree on this cause i do not have the time or patience to discuss something with someone who has one mindset and refuses to open their eyes to anothers point of view "For the sake of it? Typical tripe from someone who doesn't get the irony of accusing someone else of being unable to consider another point of view. Your stance is indefensible which is why you can't - can't, not won't - discuss it. | |||
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"I don't know the answer to this, if you have a penis but live as a woman does the law view you as a man? If so, if it is good enough for the law, it's good enough for a toilet attendant! And if you find the answer is that the law can view pre-op transwomen as women, would that suddenly make it good enough for you? What do you suggest hermaphrodites do, out of interest? Are they supposed to have half a pee in one toilet then switch for the other half? Are they supposed to use the different...I mean disabled toilet too? And as yet, nobody has addressed how anyone else would know what parts another person has, or why it's any of their business. " You know this is the funniest part. Roseanne Barr who I previously had a lot of respect for standing up for gag rights etc is very anti trans and has said these arguments about kids seeing other peoples genitals. Believe me this is the last thing I want to show off when I'm in the ladies or the men's for that matter. I was a cubicle goer in the men's and now I'm a cubicle goer in the ladies. There is normally a door on the front of said cubicle. Once I've shut it, I can do my business in private. No one knows. I'm not sat there being a perve, I'm having a no. 1 or when absolutely desperate a no.2. Then when I come out and wash my hands it's immediately obvious I'm a woman.  | |||
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"At work our policy is that you use the toilets of the sex that you are, not the sex that you're born necessarily. Some of my colleagues asked why they couldn't use the disabled facilities, luckily only very few. What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities? Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender. Offering the disabled facility as an alternative doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's not necessarily saying that someone is disabled for going through a gender change and resolves and issues people may have during mid transition I typed out a whole response but deleted it. It's a thorny subject and peopel will have lots of opinions but basically being a woman or a man isn't a disability and no one should feel that it is. Its down to education to combat prejudice, fear and misinformation on BOTH sides." Exactly!! I'm not saying its a disability at all. Just cause the toilets are labelled 'disabled' doesn't mean able bodied people cant use them when necessary. All i've said that i see nothing wrong with someone MID-TRANSITION using those facilities but apparently i'm segregating people & it's been done in history before and im all thats wrong with the world | |||
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"What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities?
Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender.
Their "intended" sex? Like we choose? Trans people are (usually) born male or female, the same as (usually) everyone else. They just have the wrong parts. Why single them out to feel even more different? Sorry, you may have gone through years of torment, hormones and surgery to be the person you really are, but you're still different. Get ye to the disabled toilet because you're not a "proper" woman/man.
Does a few bits of skin and tubing and stuff actually make someone a different person?
How would anyone even know whether someone had gone through full surgery in order to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with it?
Which parts a person has is their own damned business.
Please if you are going to quote something i post quote all of it and not part of it for you to then take out of context
I quoted the relevant bit to keep the response shorter. I've not taken it out of context at all.
You asked what's wrong with it and then attempted to justify the question. My reply is about what's wrong with it.
The context is clear.
You seem hell bent on kicking off for the sake of it.
Lets just agree to disagree on this cause i do not have the time or patience to discuss something with someone who has one mindset and refuses to open their eyes to anothers point of view
For the sake of it? Typical tripe from someone who doesn't get the irony of accusing someone else of being unable to consider another point of view.
Your stance is indefensible which is why you can't - can't, not won't - discuss it."as i said earlier you seem hell bent on arguing without listening and im bored with you already
As for my indefensible position im happy for you to ask anyone you wish about the alleged 'tripe' that i post and you'll soon realise you dont have a clue what you're talking about or accusing me of  | |||
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The degree of ignorance and intolerance shown in here sometimes is astounding.
Nature sometimes makes mistakes. There are plenty of examples. So it's not a stretch to know that sometimes a woman can be born with a cock, or a man without one. | |||
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"What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities?
Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender.
Their "intended" sex? Like we choose? Trans people are (usually) born male or female, the same as (usually) everyone else. They just have the wrong parts. Why single them out to feel even more different? Sorry, you may have gone through years of torment, hormones and surgery to be the person you really are, but you're still different. Get ye to the disabled toilet because you're not a "proper" woman/man.
Does a few bits of skin and tubing and stuff actually make someone a different person?
How would anyone even know whether someone had gone through full surgery in order to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with it?
Which parts a person has is their own damned business.
Please if you are going to quote something i post quote all of it and not part of it for you to then take out of context
I quoted the relevant bit to keep the response shorter. I've not taken it out of context at all.
You asked what's wrong with it and then attempted to justify the question. My reply is about what's wrong with it.
The context is clear.
You seem hell bent on kicking off for the sake of it.
Lets just agree to disagree on this cause i do not have the time or patience to discuss something with someone who has one mindset and refuses to open their eyes to anothers point of view
For the sake of it? Typical tripe from someone who doesn't get the irony of accusing someone else of being unable to consider another point of view.
Your stance is indefensible which is why you can't - can't, not won't - discuss it.
as i said earlier you seem hell bent on arguing without listening and im bored with you already
As for my indefensible position im happy for you to ask anyone you wish about the alleged 'tripe' that i post and you'll soon realise you dont have a clue what you're talking about or accusing me of "You have asked what's wrong with asking why transpeople can't be segregated. Read back, it's written above. So yeah, I know exactly what I am commenting on. And since you're expecting me to accept the concept of segregation of the different for the comfort of the majority, you're damned right I'm not going to agree with you. I can't believe in this day and age, after all we should have learned from the past, this crap still comes up. You may have missed it but there is a transwoman posting on this thread who has told you why she shouldn't have to use the disabled toilets. Yet still you bluster on about it being easier and acceptable. | |||
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"Ok keep it civil please or do as the forum summary asks "I'm stepping away now. I get a bit heated about gender intolerance. | |||
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"A transperson is now the same as Fred or Dave in a dress.
The degree of ignorance and intolerance shown in here sometimes is astounding.
Nature sometimes makes mistakes. There are plenty of examples. So it's not a stretch to know that sometimes a woman can be born with a cock, or a man without one."If you'd like to climb down a little from that rather high and judgmental mammal and explain to me then exactly how "dad" stood outside a toilet knows Fred in a frock is just that or a trans person who really lives as a woman and thinks as a woman, but still looks like Fred in a frock ? "The degree of ignorance and intolerance shown in here sometimes is astounding." So let me get this straight... Just because someone does not agree with you then they are Ignorant and full of intolerance | |||
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"What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities?
Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender.
Their "intended" sex? Like we choose? Trans people are (usually) born male or female, the same as (usually) everyone else. They just have the wrong parts. Why single them out to feel even more different? Sorry, you may have gone through years of torment, hormones and surgery to be the person you really are, but you're still different. Get ye to the disabled toilet because you're not a "proper" woman/man.
Does a few bits of skin and tubing and stuff actually make someone a different person?
How would anyone even know whether someone had gone through full surgery in order to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with it?
Which parts a person has is their own damned business.
Please if you are going to quote something i post quote all of it and not part of it for you to then take out of context
I quoted the relevant bit to keep the response shorter. I've not taken it out of context at all.
You asked what's wrong with it and then attempted to justify the question. My reply is about what's wrong with it.
The context is clear.
You seem hell bent on kicking off for the sake of it.
Lets just agree to disagree on this cause i do not have the time or patience to discuss something with someone who has one mindset and refuses to open their eyes to anothers point of view
For the sake of it? Typical tripe from someone who doesn't get the irony of accusing someone else of being unable to consider another point of view.
Your stance is indefensible which is why you can't - can't, not won't - discuss it.
as i said earlier you seem hell bent on arguing without listening and im bored with you already
As for my indefensible position im happy for you to ask anyone you wish about the alleged 'tripe' that i post and you'll soon realise you dont have a clue what you're talking about or accusing me of
You have asked what's wrong with asking why transpeople can't be segregated. Read back, it's written above.
So yeah, I know exactly what I am commenting on. And since you're expecting me to accept the concept of segregation of the different for the comfort of the majority, you're damned right I'm not going to agree with you.
I can't believe in this day and age, after all we should have learned from the past, this crap still comes up.
You may have missed it but there is a transwoman posting on this thread who has told you why she shouldn't have to use the disabled toilets. Yet still you bluster on about it being easier and acceptable. "i'll repeat what i said before - dont partially quote me and take it out of context. Re-read my original post which you partially quoted
As for the tg lady posting, her comments make more sense than yours | |||
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"Ok keep it civil please or do as the forum summary asks "im trying my best despite random accusations | |||
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"I am not sure what I think of this question so I am reading everyones opinions before I decide....but if there were toilets for TS etc would anyone use them ? I also think people are getting hung up on the disabled toilet comment... Penny herself said she would use disabled changing rooms if needed." The first time disabled toilets were mentioned it was because some employees had suggested transpeople should use the disabled facilities. The question was "why can't they be expected to". Choosing to use them for one's own comfort is different to being expected to use them for the comfort of the prejudiced and intolerant. Penny said she'd use them if necessary, clearly stating it would be for her comfort rather than to appease the demands of anyone else. That's my issue with it in a nutshell. | |||
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"Oops removed that by mistake. I would only use the disabled facilities if I felt uncomfortable in either of the others. For example changing rooms without cubicles at say swimming pools. Obviously it's difficult for me. I have breasts and a willy so I would feel uncomfortable fully undressing in front of others and certainly wouldn't want to cause upset or confusion to kids. I have had to be very careful in the gradual transition so that my kids could get used to it, but now they are getting used to it. Luckily my local pools have mixed cubicles so it gets rid of the issue, though tucking in a swimming costume is easier said than done. " | |||
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"What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities?
Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender.
Their "intended" sex? Like we choose? Trans people are (usually) born male or female, the same as (usually) everyone else. They just have the wrong parts. Why single them out to feel even more different? Sorry, you may have gone through years of torment, hormones and surgery to be the person you really are, but you're still different. Get ye to the disabled toilet because you're not a "proper" woman/man.
Does a few bits of skin and tubing and stuff actually make someone a different person?
How would anyone even know whether someone had gone through full surgery in order to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with it?
Which parts a person has is their own damned business.
Please if you are going to quote something i post quote all of it and not part of it for you to then take out of context
I quoted the relevant bit to keep the response shorter. I've not taken it out of context at all.
You asked what's wrong with it and then attempted to justify the question. My reply is about what's wrong with it.
The context is clear.
You seem hell bent on kicking off for the sake of it.
Lets just agree to disagree on this cause i do not have the time or patience to discuss something with someone who has one mindset and refuses to open their eyes to anothers point of view
For the sake of it? Typical tripe from someone who doesn't get the irony of accusing someone else of being unable to consider another point of view.
Your stance is indefensible which is why you can't - can't, not won't - discuss it.
as i said earlier you seem hell bent on arguing without listening and im bored with you already
As for my indefensible position im happy for you to ask anyone you wish about the alleged 'tripe' that i post and you'll soon realise you dont have a clue what you're talking about or accusing me of
You have asked what's wrong with asking why transpeople can't be segregated. Read back, it's written above.
So yeah, I know exactly what I am commenting on. And since you're expecting me to accept the concept of segregation of the different for the comfort of the majority, you're damned right I'm not going to agree with you.
I can't believe in this day and age, after all we should have learned from the past, this crap still comes up.
You may have missed it but there is a transwoman posting on this thread who has told you why she shouldn't have to use the disabled toilets. Yet still you bluster on about it being easier and acceptable.
i'll repeat what i said before - dont partially quote me and take it out of context. Re-read my original post which you partially quoted
As for the tg lady posting, her comments make more sense than yours "Reread the post you are defending about some employees expecting transpeople to use the disabled toilets. Not giving them the option but expecting it, or making it a rule. | |||
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"What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities?
Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender.
Their "intended" sex? Like we choose? Trans people are (usually) born male or female, the same as (usually) everyone else. They just have the wrong parts. Why single them out to feel even more different? Sorry, you may have gone through years of torment, hormones and surgery to be the person you really are, but you're still different. Get ye to the disabled toilet because you're not a "proper" woman/man.
Does a few bits of skin and tubing and stuff actually make someone a different person?
How would anyone even know whether someone had gone through full surgery in order to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with it?
Which parts a person has is their own damned business.
Please if you are going to quote something i post quote all of it and not part of it for you to then take out of context
I quoted the relevant bit to keep the response shorter. I've not taken it out of context at all.
You asked what's wrong with it and then attempted to justify the question. My reply is about what's wrong with it.
The context is clear.
You seem hell bent on kicking off for the sake of it.
Lets just agree to disagree on this cause i do not have the time or patience to discuss something with someone who has one mindset and refuses to open their eyes to anothers point of view
For the sake of it? Typical tripe from someone who doesn't get the irony of accusing someone else of being unable to consider another point of view.
Your stance is indefensible which is why you can't - can't, not won't - discuss it.
as i said earlier you seem hell bent on arguing without listening and im bored with you already
As for my indefensible position im happy for you to ask anyone you wish about the alleged 'tripe' that i post and you'll soon realise you dont have a clue what you're talking about or accusing me of
You have asked what's wrong with asking why transpeople can't be segregated. Read back, it's written above.
So yeah, I know exactly what I am commenting on. And since you're expecting me to accept the concept of segregation of the different for the comfort of the majority, you're damned right I'm not going to agree with you.
I can't believe in this day and age, after all we should have learned from the past, this crap still comes up.
You may have missed it but there is a transwoman posting on this thread who has told you why she shouldn't have to use the disabled toilets. Yet still you bluster on about it being easier and acceptable.
i'll repeat what i said before - dont partially quote me and take it out of context. Re-read my original post which you partially quoted
As for the tg lady posting, her comments make more sense than yours
Reread the post you are defending about some employees expecting transpeople to use the disabled toilets.
Not giving them the option but expecting it, or making it a rule."last time i shall request that you read and understand what i said. The tg lady quoted my original post and i responded to het question. you partially quoted, didnt understand my response & kicked off. then accused me of bring ill informed and segregating people as has been done in history. Engage brain before mouth sweet heart you may calm down a bit then | |||
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"Only thing that puzzles me (being a 'see both sides' sort of person) if a male pervert goes in the ladies he is liable to be slung out of the venue/arrested. But if he puts a skirt on he is ok?" Going by this thread then yes mate. | |||
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"How do you know it a genuine trans person and not a perve trying to cop a look?" Ok so easiest answer here is do I look like a woman or a man most ? | |||
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"Which Toilet would the father of a young girl use when out ? or the mother of a son.. I would never have allowed my little boy to go into a male toilet alone. The best or easiest option is to use the disabled loo. " | |||
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"Which Toilet would the father of a young girl use when out ? or the mother of a son.. " Does that really need an answer ? | |||
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"How do you know it a genuine trans person and not a perve trying to cop a look? Ok so easiest answer here is do I look like a woman or a man most ? " You look like a woman your fotos are fabulous and I would not be the least bit offended if a TV / TS used the same toilets as me.. I have a Gay son who also drags up ( yes I am aware that isnt the same as TS ) and he will always come into the loos with me when I am out. Add make up chat etc.. He has also taken me into mens loos in clubs and stands by door To me its just normal. | |||
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"How do you know it a genuine trans person and not a perve trying to cop a look? Ok so easiest answer here is do I look like a woman or a man most ? " From your profile pictures I wouldn't look twice, I'd take you as female. | |||
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"I think this is an emotive subject and one I'm glad has been brought up as understandably I like to try and open peoples minds as to my feelings in the subject which I suspect aren't that different to other trans people's experiences. This is all about choice. Which as a human being and a female one at that I believe I am entitled to use the ladies loos. I however would not choose to cause upset or concern to others. So in those circumstances that it is difficult then I think it is fully justified for a trans person to request the key to the disabled facilities without question. " THANK - FUCKING - YOU !!!!!!!
Seriously thank you for understanding the point. I dont think you're disabled and wouldnt expect you to use disabled facilities cause you are a tg.
I would be considerate to you for the changes you're going through and would try to understand and OUT OF MUTUAL RESPECT AND CONSIDERATION would expect the same from you when considering others emotions and feelings on such situations.
Your posts make alot more sense than shouty fighty lady  | |||
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"How do you know it a genuine trans person and not a perve trying to cop a look? Ok so easiest answer here is do I look like a woman or a man most ? " With all respect, not all trans men to females look female. But... to the same point.... not all 'born' females look female... | |||
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"What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities?
Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender.
Their "intended" sex? Like we choose? Trans people are (usually) born male or female, the same as (usually) everyone else. They just have the wrong parts. Why single them out to feel even more different? Sorry, you may have gone through years of torment, hormones and surgery to be the person you really are, but you're still different. Get ye to the disabled toilet because you're not a "proper" woman/man.
Does a few bits of skin and tubing and stuff actually make someone a different person?
How would anyone even know whether someone had gone through full surgery in order to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with it?
Which parts a person has is their own damned business.
Please if you are going to quote something i post quote all of it and not part of it for you to then take out of context
I quoted the relevant bit to keep the response shorter. I've not taken it out of context at all.
You asked what's wrong with it and then attempted to justify the question. My reply is about what's wrong with it.
The context is clear.
You seem hell bent on kicking off for the sake of it.
Lets just agree to disagree on this cause i do not have the time or patience to discuss something with someone who has one mindset and refuses to open their eyes to anothers point of view
For the sake of it? Typical tripe from someone who doesn't get the irony of accusing someone else of being unable to consider another point of view.
Your stance is indefensible which is why you can't - can't, not won't - discuss it.
as i said earlier you seem hell bent on arguing without listening and im bored with you already
As for my indefensible position im happy for you to ask anyone you wish about the alleged 'tripe' that i post and you'll soon realise you dont have a clue what you're talking about or accusing me of
You have asked what's wrong with asking why transpeople can't be segregated. Read back, it's written above.
So yeah, I know exactly what I am commenting on. And since you're expecting me to accept the concept of segregation of the different for the comfort of the majority, you're damned right I'm not going to agree with you.
I can't believe in this day and age, after all we should have learned from the past, this crap still comes up.
You may have missed it but there is a transwoman posting on this thread who has told you why she shouldn't have to use the disabled toilets. Yet still you bluster on about it being easier and acceptable.
i'll repeat what i said before - dont partially quote me and take it out of context. Re-read my original post which you partially quoted
As for the tg lady posting, her comments make more sense than yours
Reread the post you are defending about some employees expecting transpeople to use the disabled toilets.
Not giving them the option but expecting it, or making it a rule.
last time i shall request that you read and understand what i said.
The tg lady quoted my original post and i responded to het question.
you partially quoted, didnt understand my response & kicked off. then accused me of bring ill informed and segregating people as has been done in history.
Engage brain before mouth sweet heart you may calm down a bit then"A) Patronising me now? Well aren't you just an all round display of tolerance. Bravo on a further display of your attitude. B) I read what you wrote and understood it. The words are there and perfectly clear. You asked what is wrong with expecting a transperson to use the disabled toilet "because some people might feel uncomfortable". Those people need to get over their prejudice. | |||
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"How do you know it a genuine trans person and not a perve trying to cop a look? Ok so easiest answer here is do I look like a woman or a man most ? " I though this was about trans people, not you personally? Do you think reasonable adjustments should be both ways? I accept trans people as they are, can you accept that there are people who don't? | |||
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"Which Toilet would the father of a young girl use when out ? or the mother of a son.. I would never have allowed my little boy to go into a male toilet alone. The best or easiest option is to use the disabled loo. " Good point. I have seen guys in female toilets with their little kids. All the women were really supportive of him. | |||
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"What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities?
Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender.
Their "intended" sex? Like we choose? Trans people are (usually) born male or female, the same as (usually) everyone else. They just have the wrong parts. Why single them out to feel even more different? Sorry, you may have gone through years of torment, hormones and surgery to be the person you really are, but you're still different. Get ye to the disabled toilet because you're not a "proper" woman/man.
Does a few bits of skin and tubing and stuff actually make someone a different person?
How would anyone even know whether someone had gone through full surgery in order to feel comfortable or uncomfortable with it?
Which parts a person has is their own damned business.
Please if you are going to quote something i post quote all of it and not part of it for you to then take out of context
I quoted the relevant bit to keep the response shorter. I've not taken it out of context at all.
You asked what's wrong with it and then attempted to justify the question. My reply is about what's wrong with it.
The context is clear.
You seem hell bent on kicking off for the sake of it.
Lets just agree to disagree on this cause i do not have the time or patience to discuss something with someone who has one mindset and refuses to open their eyes to anothers point of view
For the sake of it? Typical tripe from someone who doesn't get the irony of accusing someone else of being unable to consider another point of view.
Your stance is indefensible which is why you can't - can't, not won't - discuss it.
as i said earlier you seem hell bent on arguing without listening and im bored with you already
As for my indefensible position im happy for you to ask anyone you wish about the alleged 'tripe' that i post and you'll soon realise you dont have a clue what you're talking about or accusing me of
You have asked what's wrong with asking why transpeople can't be segregated. Read back, it's written above.
So yeah, I know exactly what I am commenting on. And since you're expecting me to accept the concept of segregation of the different for the comfort of the majority, you're damned right I'm not going to agree with you.
I can't believe in this day and age, after all we should have learned from the past, this crap still comes up.
You may have missed it but there is a transwoman posting on this thread who has told you why she shouldn't have to use the disabled toilets. Yet still you bluster on about it being easier and acceptable.
i'll repeat what i said before - dont partially quote me and take it out of context. Re-read my original post which you partially quoted
As for the tg lady posting, her comments make more sense than yours
Reread the post you are defending about some employees expecting transpeople to use the disabled toilets.
Not giving them the option but expecting it, or making it a rule.
last time i shall request that you read and understand what i said.
The tg lady quoted my original post and i responded to het question.
you partially quoted, didnt understand my response & kicked off. then accused me of bring ill informed and segregating people as has been done in history.
Engage brain before mouth sweet heart you may calm down a bit then
A) Patronising me now? Well aren't you just an all round display of tolerance. Bravo on a further display of your attitude.
B) I read what you wrote and understood it. The words are there and perfectly clear. You asked what is wrong with expecting a transperson to use the disabled toilet "because some people might feel uncomfortable".
Those people need to get over their prejudice."I give up
You're right im an inconsiderate neanderthol who oppresses women, kills minorities, discriminates because of colour, hates gays, beats on the weak and only wishes the advancement of the master race where all should be hetrosexual and anyone else is eliminated
You finally found me out, well done you
PS: if theres anything ive missed in the list above please feel free to add to it | |||
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"I think this is an emotive subject and one I'm glad has been brought up as understandably I like to try and open peoples minds as to my feelings in the subject which I suspect aren't that different to other trans people's experiences. This is all about choice. Which as a human being and a female one at that I believe I am entitled to use the ladies loos. I however would not choose to cause upset or concern to others. So in those circumstances that it is difficult then I think it is fully justified for a trans person to request the key to the disabled facilities without question. THANK - FUCKING - YOU !!!!!!!
Seriously thank you for understanding the point. I dont think you're disabled and wouldnt expect you to use disabled facilities cause you are a tg.
I would be considerate to you for the changes you're going through and would try to understand and OUT OF MUTUAL RESPECT AND CONSIDERATION would expect the same from you when considering others emotions and feelings on such situations.
Your posts make alot more sense than shouty fighty lady "Oh, now it's a choice rather than expecting a transperson to behave so as not to make everyone else uncomfortable, with no thought given to the individual? Back pedal a bit faster
Your words are still clear at the top of the page.
Why should transpeople not use the disabled facilities because some people may feel uncomfortable.
Show me where you address the feelings of the transperson in that statement and it might become a little more believable that you were advocating choice and mutual respect.
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"I think this is an emotive subject and one I'm glad has been brought up as understandably I like to try and open peoples minds as to my feelings in the subject which I suspect aren't that different to other trans people's experiences. This is all about choice. Which as a human being and a female one at that I believe I am entitled to use the ladies loos. I however would not choose to cause upset or concern to others. So in those circumstances that it is difficult then I think it is fully justified for a trans person to request the key to the disabled facilities without question. THANK - FUCKING - YOU !!!!!!!
Seriously thank you for understanding the point. I dont think you're disabled and wouldnt expect you to use disabled facilities cause you are a tg.
I would be considerate to you for the changes you're going through and would try to understand and OUT OF MUTUAL RESPECT AND CONSIDERATION would expect the same from you when considering others emotions and feelings on such situations.
Your posts make alot more sense than shouty fighty lady
Oh, now it's a choice rather than expecting a transperson to behave so as not to make everyone else uncomfortable, with no thought given to the individual?
Back pedal a bit faster
Your words are still clear at the top of the page.
Why should transpeople not use the disabled facilities because some people may feel uncomfortable.
Show me where you address the feelings of the transperson in that statement and it might become a little more believable that you were advocating choice and mutual respect.
"tell you what pet everyone can read and make up their own minds on my so called back peddling. I cant be arsed with you anymore. Have a lovely day | |||
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"How do you know it a genuine trans person and not a perve trying to cop a look?" ********************* I dont follow that reply as what can a perve see in a ladies loo .. they are all cubicles. Apart from that .. A TV/TS takes the time to prepare themselves hours to make up put on decent clothes and make an effort to look female.. I do not believe a man dressed as a women just to perve would go to such measures or pass muster as a female. Hard enough for people to dress up and put up with verbal abuse can we not all be more accepting of people and their differences/preferences . Do women really care its hardly a threat is it. | |||
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"I think this is an emotive subject and one I'm glad has been brought up as understandably I like to try and open peoples minds as to my feelings in the subject which I suspect aren't that different to other trans people's experiences. This is all about choice. Which as a human being and a female one at that I believe I am entitled to use the ladies loos. I however would not choose to cause upset or concern to others. So in those circumstances that it is difficult then I think it is fully justified for a trans person to request the key to the disabled facilities without question. THANK - FUCKING - YOU !!!!!!!
Seriously thank you for understanding the point. I dont think you're disabled and wouldnt expect you to use disabled facilities cause you are a tg.
I would be considerate to you for the changes you're going through and would try to understand and OUT OF MUTUAL RESPECT AND CONSIDERATION would expect the same from you when considering others emotions and feelings on such situations.
Your posts make alot more sense than shouty fighty lady
Oh, now it's a choice rather than expecting a transperson to behave so as not to make everyone else uncomfortable, with no thought given to the individual?
Back pedal a bit faster
Your words are still clear at the top of the page.
Why should transpeople not use the disabled facilities because some people may feel uncomfortable.
Show me where you address the feelings of the transperson in that statement and it might become a little more believable that you were advocating choice and mutual respect.
tell you what pet everyone can read and make up their own minds on my so called back peddling. I cant be arsed with you anymore. Have a lovely day "Thank you flower, you too. | |||
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"Trans should use a urinal with one of those 'she wees'. In fact women should as well. They are great." I've got something better than a she-wee. Google "shenis". They are beyond great! | |||
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"I do remember somewhere in the UK, a tranny got beat up in the toilets due to them using the mens toilets. It was in a local newspaper, I can't remember the exact details." Much more acceptable than them risking offending anyone by using the ladies I heartily approve | |||
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"Only thing that puzzles me (being a 'see both sides' sort of person) if a male pervert goes in the ladies he is liable to be slung out of the venue/arrested. But if he puts a skirt on he is ok? Going by this thread then yes mate." what do either of you imagine goes on in ladies lavatories? This post shows how little you know about that and transgender men and women. | |||
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"Ohh I have that is hilarious .. "I had to have it sent over from the US. I wish I'd bought two! | |||
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"Only thing that puzzles me (being a 'see both sides' sort of person) if a male pervert goes in the ladies he is liable to be slung out of the venue/arrested. But if he puts a skirt on he is ok? Going by this thread then yes mate. what do either of you imagine goes on in ladies lavatories? This post shows how little you know about that and transgender men and women." Shhh! The first rule of ladies lavatories is we don't talk about ladies lavatories. Or do I mean what happens in ladies lavatories stays in ladies lavatories? | |||
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"How do you know it a genuine trans person and not a perve trying to cop a look? Ok so easiest answer here is do I look like a woman or a man most ? I though this was about trans people, not you personally? Do you think reasonable adjustments should be both ways? I accept trans people as they are, can you accept that there are people who don't?" Sorry you are absolutely right. I shouldn't have personalised it. But I was just trying to make a point. For me it's relatively easy to use the female loos as I look largely female. Yes I'm tall but my ex wife was taller than me so I don't really think about it that much. I don't see why I should have to adjust my behaviour though. I'm just using the female toilets. Yes I'm as discrete as I can be but then that's normal isn't it. I'm not going to go into the ladies and leave the door open whilst I stand to have a pee with me knickers round me knees. Unfortunately I have seen this sort of behaviour from some trans women. I have no choice to accept that people do have their concerns and different views. They are normally the ones I avoid where possible. | |||
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"Only thing that puzzles me (being a 'see both sides' sort of person) if a male pervert goes in the ladies he is liable to be slung out of the venue/arrested. But if he puts a skirt on he is ok? Going by this thread then yes mate. what do either of you imagine goes on in ladies lavatories? This post shows how little you know about that and transgender men and women." Well, I personally would imagine that ladies go into the toilets to carry out normal bodily functions plus adjusting makeup etc. Not being in the habit of visiting them I can only guess. But I haven't got a clue what that has to do with the topic at hand? | |||
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"Only thing that puzzles me (being a 'see both sides' sort of person) if a male pervert goes in the ladies he is liable to be slung out of the venue/arrested. But if he puts a skirt on he is ok? Going by this thread then yes mate. what do either of you imagine goes on in ladies lavatories? This post shows how little you know about that and transgender men and women. Well, I personally would imagine that ladies go into the toilets to carry out normal bodily functions plus adjusting makeup etc. Not being in the habit of visiting them I can only guess. But I haven't got a clue what that has to do with the topic at hand?" Because as you have pointed out not much goes on in ladies toilets that would be of interest to "perverts" unless of course pervert here is short hand for paedophile and transgender women are not men in skirts, they're women. -o | |||
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"Trans should use a urinal with one of those 'she wees'. In fact women should as well. They are great. I've got something better than a she-wee. Google "shenis". They are beyond great! "Jesus Christ! You will put someone's eye out with that madam! | |||
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"Only thing that puzzles me (being a 'see both sides' sort of person) if a male pervert goes in the ladies he is liable to be slung out of the venue/arrested. But if he puts a skirt on he is ok? Going by this thread then yes mate. what do either of you imagine goes on in ladies lavatories? This post shows how little you know about that and transgender men and women. Well, I personally would imagine that ladies go into the toilets to carry out normal bodily functions plus adjusting makeup etc. Not being in the habit of visiting them I can only guess. But I haven't got a clue what that has to do with the topic at hand? Because as you have pointed out not much goes on in ladies toilets that would be of interest to "perverts" unless of course pervert here is short hand for paedophile and transgender women are not men in skirts, they're women. But TRANSvestites ARE men in skirts. Also my friend is female turned male so you are assuming a lot wrongly! -o" | |||
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" But TRANSvestites ARE men in skirts. Also my friend is female turned male so you are assuming a lot wrongly! -o" but this is about transgender | |||
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" But TRANSvestites ARE men in skirts. Also my friend is female turned male so you are assuming a lot wrongly! -o but this is about transgender "Actually I took it too mean all trans people so anyone who goes out in public that identifies as trans. There are some transvestites that frankly make me look like a docker in a dress. | |||
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"We had a pre op transsexual where I used to work. She wanted to used the multi cubicle female toilets but some of the olderaides that worked there pit complaints in. As a compromise she used the female disabled toilet. It wasn't perfect because obviously she wasn't disabled but it worked. I think the issued was more in the workplace eye because she went on holiday male and came back female. She has since had a full sex change and left for a new job shortly afterwards. " No surprise she left if that's how her work colleagues treated her. | |||
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" But TRANSvestites ARE men in skirts. Also my friend is female turned male so you are assuming a lot wrongly! -o but this is about transgender
Actually I took it too mean all trans people so anyone who goes out in public that identifies as trans. There are some transvestites that frankly make me look like a docker in a dress.
"lol, some make me look like a pig in a frock! There is a picture recently submitted of a transvestite guy's legs and bum in lingerie made me right envious
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"We had a pre op transsexual where I used to work. She wanted to used the multi cubicle female toilets but some of the olderaides that worked there pit complaints in. As a compromise she used the female disabled toilet. It wasn't perfect because obviously she wasn't disabled but it worked. I think the issued was more in the workplace eye because she went on holiday male and came back female. She has since had a full sex change and left for a new job shortly afterwards. No surprise she left if that's how her work colleagues treated her. " She stayed for years and the workplace actually made much more allowances for her treatment than they needed to to be fair. This was actually stated by an independent representative she took into a meeting. I did get one thing wrong. It wasnt the female disabled toilets. It was a single cubicle female toilet in another area of the building which wasn't that far from the multi cubicle toilet. | |||
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"I use the female loos without any problems generally. After all the last thing I want to show off is what's in my Knicks. That's why there are doors on the loos. I think if I pulled up next to a bloke at the urinals in skirt, heels and a low cut top he'd have more of a job peeing than I would. Realistically we need more gender neutral toilets to stop all the fuss really. " I have seen this happen in a club, the guy that the t girl stood next to pissed all down his leg in the rush to put it away | |||
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" I know there's the tiny minority that can actually look female and no one would think anything of it, but unfortunately the vast majority don't. " Based on? Maybe you only see the ones that don't. | |||
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" I know there's the tiny minority that can actually look female and no one would think anything of it, but unfortunately the vast majority don't. Based on? Maybe you only see the ones that don't." That's very true. A trans person will tend to pick up on traits of another trans person easier than most I'd say so if the were in stealth mode so to speak I might notice things that would make me think twice quicker than some but not always. Funny though I was in a fast food queue the other day and I picked up on a few giveaways that the man in front of me was either incredibly metrosexual for a 70s style heavy metal chap or was a transvestite. Long hair, ok rock dude, keep with me though. Long manicured nails, very precise eyebrows and no arm hair. The last is normally either someone with trictotillamania or a TV I'd have at a guess. When he noticed me, I could tell he knew I'd read him. Made me giggle anyway. | |||
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"should a woman dressed as a man use the mens toilet then ???" If they can pee standing up, then yes. | |||
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"should a woman dressed as a man use the mens toilet then ???" Would you expect a trans man that's probably or possibly on testosterone therapy to not? So the beards chap that is washing his hands at the sink, you wouldn't find that odd at all? | |||
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"should a woman dressed as a man use the mens toilet then ??? If they can pee standing up, then yes. "It was meant to say beardy chap btw. That's what cubicles are for ain't it? Not just for having a no.2. | |||
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"think ill put a skirt on then and go perving in the womens toilets as its exceptable for men dressed as women to use their toilets" If your idea of having a perv is listening while women take a dump then go ahead. | |||
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"think ill put a skirt on then and go perving in the womens toilets as its exceptable for men dressed as women to use their toilets" What exactly do you expect to see?? Does hearing women piss turn you on?? Or maybe doing a big dump?? | |||
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"think ill put a skirt on then and go perving in the womens toilets as its exceptable for men dressed as women to use their toilets If your idea of having a perv is listening while women take a dump then go ahead." Snap | |||
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"think ill put a skirt on then and go perving in the womens toilets as its exceptable for men dressed as women to use their toilets If your idea of having a perv is listening while women take a dump then go ahead. Snap " great minds and all that. | |||
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"I enjoy using the ladies loo. I've found most of the girls in them to be really friendly and frankly, I end up having the same convo with them every time. 'Are they real?' and so on, repeat ad nauseum. "Are what real?  x | |||
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" But TRANSvestites ARE men in skirts. Also my friend is female turned male so you are assuming a lot wrongly! -o but this is about transgender "Ah - I see the problem now. You haven't read the OP which does NOT specify transgender but just sexes dressed as opposites. | |||
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" But TRANSvestites ARE men in skirts. Also my friend is female turned male so you are assuming a lot wrongly! -o but this is about transgender
Actually I took it too mean all trans people so anyone who goes out in public that identifies as trans. There are some transvestites that frankly make me look like a docker in a dress.
"Yes and I took it just to mean transgender ...my bad. | |||
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"At work our policy is that you use the toilets of the sex that you are, not the sex that you're born necessarily. Some of my colleagues asked why they couldn't use the disabled facilities, luckily only very few. What would be wrong with using the disabled facilities? Some people may not feel comfortable knowing that someone hasn't gone through a complete change and is yet using the facilities of their intended gender. Offering the disabled facility as an alternative doesn't sound like a bad idea. It's not necessarily saying that someone is disabled for going through a gender change and resolves and issues people may have during mid transition Because precisely that which you state. I'm not disabled. I am a woman. I just happen to be a trans woman. " | |||
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"My friend was a lovely young lady. Before her/his ops she had to prove that she was serious so had to live as a man for a year. Breasts (large)tightly bound to be hidden & hair cropped BUT so lovely, was obviously a girl. Used to get very disapproving looks if she used male toilets. Now had full ops, bearded & happy "That's great to hear. Always nice when someone can gain happiness for who they are in the end. Only a year though, bloody hell I'd have had all my ops by now. 
As a trans woman the current "real life experience" time requirement generally seems to be 2 years. I've been living as a woman for a year and a half and still have a very long wait before I could ever expect surgery due to the limits on NHS funding for this. So if anyone feels particularly inclined to do so please feel free to pay for me to travel to Thailand to get this done beforehand.
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"My friend was a lovely young lady. Before her/his ops she had to prove that she was serious so had to live as a man for a year. Breasts (large)tightly bound to be hidden & hair cropped BUT so lovely, was obviously a girl. Used to get very disapproving looks if she used male toilets. Now had full ops, bearded & happy
That's great to hear. Always nice when someone can gain happiness for who they are in the end. Only a year though, bloody hell I'd have had all my ops by now.
As a trans woman the current "real life experience" time requirement generally seems to be 2 years. I've been living as a woman for a year and a half and still have a very long wait before I could ever expect surgery due to the limits on NHS funding for this. So if anyone feels particularly inclined to do so please feel free to pay for me to travel to Thailand to get this done beforehand.
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"The sort of people who have an issue regarding which toilet a transgender person uses will probably still have that issue after gender reassignment. Those people are probably more likely to have an issue just working in the same office space as a transgender person too. crystal" Good point. | |||
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