FabSwingers.com forum: Poppies prolong war and killing.

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Just been listening to the radio, Do you think by giving money to the poppy appeal and supporting services around the country, you are helping to glamorise wr and killing, sending a message to our youngsters, that there is glory in fighting and war, After all war is about the rich controlling the poor and greed.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

When my daughter was younger she went on a school trip to Belgium, including a visit to the Menin Gate and hearing the Last Post being played. She didn't believe in the glory of war after that, and still doesn't.

The money from poppies goes to the Royal British Legion, who have had a huge drop in funds after Help For Heroes came along with their famous patrons. I'm happy about that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

thats a strange thing to say, its to remember the men who died in the war and the money goes towards helping injured soldiers, so i thought.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

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By *uietlykinkymeWoman
over a year ago

kinky land

You may have a point in one sense.

However as a pads brat through and through and having actually seen the affect of war on families. I will always support the RBL, and HFH. And my children are growing up knowing respect to our forces, serving past and present, is very important to me.

I take them to the Arboretum all year long, not just in November.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, not in the slightest. I give money to support the men & women that over the years have made the ultimate sacrifice to allow me to live my life safely with freedom & democracy.

There is no glory in war but the people fighting it on my behalf get my upmost respect & thanks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When my daughter was younger she went on a school trip to Belgium, including a visit to the Menin Gate and hearing the Last Post being played. She didn't believe in the glory of war after that, and still doesn't.

The money from poppies goes to the Royal British Legion, who have had a huge drop in funds after Help For Heroes came along with their famous

patrons. I'm happy about that."

This

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

It doesn't glamourise war.

It reminds us of the horror and offers some pitiful relief to injured soldiers and bereaved families.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, not in the slightest. I give money to support the men & women that over the years have made the ultimate sacrifice to allow me to live my life safely with freedom & democracy.

There is no glory in war but the people fighting it on my behalf get my upmost respect & thanks."

This

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

What a stupid thing to say on the radio....which station?

Money is collected for ex soldiers etc, how is that glorifying war

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, not in the slightest. I give money to support the men & women that over the years have made the ultimate sacrifice to allow me to live my life safely with freedom & democracy.

There is no glory in war but the people fighting it on my behalf get my upmost respect & thanks."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, not in the slightest. I give money to support the men & women that over the years have made the ultimate sacrifice to allow me to live my life safely with freedom & democracy.

There is no glory in war but the people fighting it on my behalf get my upmost respect & thanks."

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich

"Just been listening to the radio, Do you think by giving money to the poppy appeal and supporting services around the country, you are helping to glamorise wr and killing, sending a message to our youngsters, that there is glory in fighting and war, After all war is about the rich controlling the poor and greed."

I think that is a crock of shit.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

"thats a strange thing to say, its to remember the men who died in the war and the money goes towards helping injured soldiers, so i thought."

The money does go to support former service personnel but not just those injured. There are care homes especially for them and helps support them in the community,

It is also a day for us to remember those who gave their lifes in service, those who were injured in services and those currently serving.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace."

Bollocks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it,"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think that is a crock of shit."

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By *mm_n_ZedCouple
over a year ago

Fareham

Poppies serve to remind us of the great sacrifice made by those who have fought and died in conflicts worldwide. They don't glorify anything - quite the opposite. They symbolise the collective sadness a nation feels for the loss of so many lives and the impact that's had on their families.

Remembering those who have fallen x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace.

Bollocks "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"thats a strange thing to say, its to remember the men who died in the war and the money goes towards helping injured soldiers, so i thought.

The money does go to support former service personnel but not just those injured. There are care homes especially for them and helps support them in the community,

It is also a day for us to remember those who gave their lifes in service, those who were injured in services and those currently serving."

Yes i remember now, about the care homes, i think its a very good thing that they do.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I don't think Manrider is talking bollocks.

Two issues are being muddled up here.

1. Is war born of greed and desire for control. YES.

2. Does poppy day glamourise war. NO.

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By *uietlykinkymeWoman
over a year ago

kinky land

When I think of those ex service personnel in places like America, I am actually glad that we here, keep the poppy going year on year because where else would those men and women that need that support go?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lest We Forget

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By *ucky1Man
over a year ago

a straightjacket

As an ex forces member, let's just remember all those who have fought and died for us, this day is about those individuals, not about the governments or ruling powers!!!!!

Shame on anyone for forgetting this

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By *ordonBennettMan
over a year ago

dover

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace."

Whatever you may think about wars, power, and control, today's commemoration remembers the fallen and does not glorify or condone war.

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By *ikandLazyCouple
over a year ago

Portsmouth

I think poppies are a reminder of the sadness and loss of war. However I do recall as I child that a lot of ww1 veterans refused to wear poppies as they saw the haig fund societys guilty conscionce. My grandfathers, my father, and their friends all, decorated serviceman without exception, shunned all rememberance services and regimental reunions. For them it was a case of not wanting to remember the sheer wanton stupidity, horror, and futillity of war.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace."

I totally get your point and so would others if they took the emotive side out of it. Unfortunately due to the death toll and suffering that goes alongside of war, it is incredibly difficult to do.

Historically the royals would have fought in wars (think of 1066 for example). Nowadays the people in power (monarchy/democracy/dictatorship) are NEVER on the frontline for they are far too valuable to die for THEIR beliefs.

This isn't meant to offend so I just say look past what your fathers, brothers, mothers, sisters etc etc did or do and look at the political or religious wrangling that cause war. It IS about money/power/land.

When we went into the second world war our freedom was NOT on the line in September 1939.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I tell you what, why not start a kick an old soldier day, what a load of old shit, I don't care if I get banned, sensationalist bulshit has no place on here, walk a mile in their shoes, and apart from trench foot and PTSD you might actually get a clue.

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By *ust_for_laughsCouple
over a year ago

Hinckley

I think that is a crock of shit."

If something encourages debate, which for the most part, it has here, then it's not a crock of shit!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace."

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think poppies are a reminder of the sadness and loss of war. However I do recall as I child that a lot of ww1 veterans refused to wear poppies as they saw the haig fund societys guilty conscionce. My grandfathers, my father, and their friends all, decorated serviceman without exception, shunned all rememberance services and regimental reunions. For them it was a case of not wanting to remember the sheer wanton stupidity, horror, and futillity of war.

That was the point I tried to make, you have done it much more eloquently.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I like the posts about not glamorising nor condoning war (one of remembrance) but on the other side of the coin is the post about the soldiers shunning it.

I think it is a good time to reflect on both sides of this highly emotive coin.

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By *ptimusDMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

I support the work of the Royal British Legion and what they stand for but I'm no longer in favour of raising funds through the Poppy Appeal.

For the simple reason that it has been hijacked by politicians, celebrities, newspapers, TV and anyone else who wants to put themselves out there to be seen as the topmost supporter of fallen soldiers.

Everyone that appears on TV now wears a poppy because they have a collection in the studios that they just pin on guests, whether they even know what the poppy stands for or not.

People should wear the poppy because it is a personal choice to express gratitude and to remember the fallen soldiers. And not because they have been guilted into wearing it, or do so because they don't want to be given judgemental glances on the street, or do so if they in the public eye to not fall foul of political correctness.

So now I donate directly to the RBL instead of wearing a poppy

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I spend one day a week, at a nursing home, just listening and "being there" for men and women who have been through the horrors of war, I don't give a token 50p or pound once a year.

That is my choice.

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By *r Mahogany70Man
over a year ago

Leicester

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace."

Some wars are necessary, many are not.

One of the necessary ones was WW2. If Britain had sat back and done nothing if would be unlikely I would be writing this post and you would be free to wear a frock.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

Robert Fisk wrote a very interesting article about wearing the poppy - think it was in the Independent (could have been the Telegraph). Worth a read.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I support the work of the Royal British Legion and what they stand for but I'm no longer in favour of raising funds through the Poppy Appeal.

Everyone that appears on TV now wears a poppy because they have a collection in the studios that they just pin on guests, whether they even know what the poppy stands for or not.

So now I donate directly to the RBL instead of wearing a poppy"

very well explained,

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By *oveSlutForUseCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

I find the whole poppy thing suitable for wars such as I and II. I am personally sick to death of "modern" armed forces whining and being victims*. They all signed up for it as a job, they need to STFU. I and II was so many people forced into an unbelievably bad situation that they should be helped and respected.

*just today I read that a soldier who was captured on camera murdering an enemy, joking about it and asking for it to be covered up has a high commander saying we should be lenient on him! What the fuck is the world coming to. He should be shot in the back like a coward.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace.

Some wars are necessary, many are not.

One of the necessary ones was WW2. If Britain had sat back and done nothing if would be unlikely I would be writing this post and you would be free to wear a frock. "

The invasion of Poland posed no immediate threat to us so although you could be correct, it is also highly likely you are incorrect.

If we had joined when the threat became real to us then I would agree with you, but it is one of those things we'll never know.

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By *r Mahogany70Man
over a year ago

Leicester

"I find the whole poppy thing suitable for wars such as I and II. I am personally sick to death of "modern" armed forces whining and being victims*. They all signed up for it as a job, they need to STFU. I and II was so many people forced into an unbelievably bad situation that they should be helped and respected.

Do you honestly think our soldiers didn't commit similar acts in the two world wars, or any other war for that matter?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think Manrider is talking bollocks.

Two issues are being muddled up here.

1. Is war born of greed and desire for control. YES.

2. Does poppy day glamourise war. NO.

"
Its a fact that working class people fight wars (on the whole) We need to respect those who have and continue to risk their lives so we can debate these issues. There is no doubting wars that are based on the rights of freedom and self determination are in some cases justified but if you could bring back one of the Accrington Lads and his German counter part you would not find a massive difference in their ideals, hopes and ambitions and when they met on the Somme they would much rather have continued to play foot ball than retreat to the trenches and inflict the horrors of war on each other directed by those who purported to be in a different class?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you honestly think our soldiers didn't commit similar acts in the two world wars, or any other war for that matter? "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've read enough now cba with it

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By *r Mahogany70Man
over a year ago

Leicester

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace.

Some wars are necessary, many are not.

One of the necessary ones was WW2. If Britain had sat back and done nothing if would be unlikely I would be writing this post and you would be free to wear a frock.

The invasion of Poland posed no immediate threat to us so although you could be correct, it is also highly likely you are incorrect.

If we had joined when the threat became real to us then I would agree with you, but it is one of those things we'll never know."

Think the "highly likely" should go before "correct"

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I'm not convinced that your post, Manrider, this website or the Internet in this form, would have been possible had the results of the 1st and 2nd World War had been different. That's for the realms of alternate history.

What is possible though is for people to be grateful for what they have and that people died so it may be so.

However, I also have an image in my head of the OP nipping back to his study inbetween doing horsey stuff and grinning at the responses he's got

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

poppies for world war two

still trying to work out if anything beyond that has been anything to be considered heroic

I have nothing but contempt for any of the current 'wars'- I believe they are only puppetry wars

there may be acts of valor, courage,bravery amongst it...but on the whole, I dont anyone is justifying anything, and I really do believe any current efforts are only to increase political,industrial and technological footholds in these areas.

The only thing to worry about is when money becomes useless and people are given no assistance to live...then we will see a war(unfortunately an elite few will be out of the way for that)

So before anyone says I'm disrespecting soldiers, I certainly not, I'm disrespecting this continued need for the conflicts,I'm disrespecting the shroud of lies, I'm disrespecting the hypocrisy of who our 'threats' actually are, and finally disrespecting anyone who doesnt understand there are people on the other sides who dont want these 'wars' or 'conflicts'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think that is a crock of shit."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As an EX Forces guy and a war veteran of the Falklands conflict i wear my poppy with pride and today paraded with many other veterans who were there to remember the fallen who paid the ultimate price so we could be here today...the poppy DOES NOT glorify war it is a symbol of rememberance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are two distinct debates here, one is remembering those who have fallen and the other is the 'merit' of war.

The question the Op seems to be asking is whether one feeds the other. Well clearly war leads to fallen soldiers, but does remembering those fallen soldiers lead to more wars?

In my opinion, it comes down to how we choose to remember them. After WW1 when we scanned the poppyfields and reflected on the horrors and loss, the mantre was that we 'should never let it happen again' and the poppys symbolised that.

So for me remembering does not feed war, because I remember the horror that is war.

The poppy, in my opinion, should make everyone who ever wears one question the merit of war and be firmly against ANY unnecessary war.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its about remembering those that gave so much, personally i don't give a rats Nadgers if Politicians and "Celebrities jump on the band waggon at least it keeps the awareness out there and the money to help those that need it keep coming in.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

The poppy, in my opinion, should make everyone who ever wears one question the merit of war and be firmly against ANY unnecessary war. "

Which prompts the question "who gets to decide which wars are necessary?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

V is irish and has a poppy bracelet.

i am british and wear one

we both wear them in remembrance of those that have dies, for whatever reason, in whatever conflict, just not necessarily those on the same side all the time.

no one can dictate who you should mourn from a conflict, whether it should only be the british forces or those of other nations, and this is why we remember.

she lived through the 80's and all the horrible things that went on.

no, there is nothing glamourous about war, not the way its remembered in this house.

and not by those that have half a brain cell

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By *SA-PLAYMan
over a year ago

Burnaby, Canada

War is fought due to religion 90% of the time so are you against that as well?

You only need to look at history to see this, yes degrees of it are for control, you cannot get away from that, but more to protect freedom, freedom of expression to be who you want to be and do what you wish you should appreciate that!

So in theory fighting to protect all of us and our choices.

Bit of a strange anti royal statement as well?

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

I think that the purpose of Memorial Sunday and the wearing of the poppy is exactly the opposite of what has been suggested.

This is all about being mindful of the consequences of war on those who die or are wounded or left behind. That's what the money that you donate is for.

Please do not confuse support for those who serve in the armed forces for support of the conflicts that they may be dedeployed to.

Support the men and women who put themselves in harms way even if you do not support those who place them there...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its about remembering those that gave so much, personally i don't give a rats Nadgers if Politicians and "Celebrities jump on the band waggon at least it keeps the awareness out there and the money to help those that need it keep coming in."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think that the purpose of Memorial Sunday and the wearing of the poppy is exactly the opposite of what has been suggested.

This is all about being mindful of the consequences of war on those who die or are wounded or left behind. That's what the money that you donate is for.

Well said

Please do not confuse support for those who serve in the armed forces for support of the conflicts that they may be dedeployed to.

Support the men and women who put themselves in harms way even if you do not support those who place them there..."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not especially pro royal but I think it's a great idea to have a figurehead independent of politicians - Call me Tony (shudders).

BTW Plenty of Royals have and indeed are serving in the front line.

Flying Search and Rescue Helicopters is no easy life either.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

BTW Plenty of Royals have and indeed are serving in the front line.

......

None of any importance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......

BTW Plenty of Royals have and indeed are serving in the front line.

......

None of any importance."

Now now be a good boy

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

"As an EX Forces guy and a war veteran of the Falklands conflict i wear my poppy with pride and today paraded with many other veterans who were there to remember the fallen who paid the ultimate price so we could be here today...the poppy DOES NOT glorify war it is a symbol of rememberance "

Me too, just back from the service in Manchester. It was not jingoistic, or a celebration of any kind. It was a very somber act of remembrance for those that were left behind.

To the OP I would say read "For the Fallen".

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old.

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning

We will remember them"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Haven't seen any slimeball politicians out there except for photocalls.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So your just like him ! Only you sit in your comfy living room writing your bile

Not being shot at etc in a far off unforgiving land

Btw , yes what he did was wrong

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By *taffs_hotwifeCouple
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

So your just like him ! Only you sit in your comfy living room writing your bile

Not being shot at etc in a far off unforgiving land

Btw , yes what he did was wrong "

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

You don't shoot cowards in the back.

Anyone who shoots someone in the back, in cold blood, is the coward.

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By *atelotmanMan
over a year ago

Chatham

[Removed by poster at 10/11/13 13:15:06]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"......

Which prompts the question "who gets to decide which wars are necessary?""

Not 'who' but what.

My answer is morality.

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By *atelotmanMan
over a year ago

Chatham

Was going to write a comment about what some people think about today,but have decided for the better an bite my tongue.Im ex forces and have seen friends die, to give you the freedom to write the crap some of you have been saying.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

Which prompts the question "who gets to decide which wars are necessary?"

Not 'who' but what.

My answer is morality. "

Does morality exist outwith the minds of men?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Was going to write a comment about what some people think about today,but have decided for the better an bite my tongue.Im ex forces and have seen friends die, to give you the freedom to write the crap some of you have been saying."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

War truly is a terrible thing

I dislike the phrase ' gave their lives' when a more apt phrase is 'their lives were taken ' .

There is no glory in war and no glamour.

Remembrance day is the one day a year for the collective consciousness of this and other nations to remember that sentient human beings had the courage to fulfil their duties. One should also have a thought for the civilians who also lost their lives. Each year I make a point of sparing a thought for lived lost in conflicts throughout history - battle of Hastings, the Armada etc. They are not wars within our lifetime but they were conflicts the result of which shaped Great Britain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace.

I totally get your point and so would others if they took the emotive side out of it. Unfortunately due to the death toll and suffering that goes alongside of war, it is incredibly difficult to do.

When we went into the second world war our freedom was NOT on the line in September 1939."

can we leave all this rubbish to one side and show some respect for our soldiers past and present.

in answer to this comment we entered the 2nd world war because of the acts of genocide being committed against a group of people who practiced a different religion.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

The idea behind having a day of remembrance and cenotaphs away from cemeteries was a really important moment in British history as the War to End All Wars feeling was at the fore.

The very sad thing is that WWI is the root cause for WWII and the current Middle East conflicts.

I respect the loss of life and the need to support those living with the effects of fighting those wars. Very few of whom had and have any choice about where they are sent.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

the poppy, this day's remembrance services and folks individual tribute and means of paying respect do not glorify conflict..

as said its about remembering those who did not come home, as is the white poppy..

the Politics and bashing one group or another are perhaps for a different thread..??

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"War truly is a terrible thing

I dislike the phrase ' gave their lives' when a more apt phrase is 'their lives were taken ' .

...... "

'Gave' was used to reflect the initially high level of volunteers during WWI.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sadly many have died in the pursuit of Western greed as opposed to the defence of personal freedom. That's the point behind what is being made by some on this thread.

Does that offend you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

can we leave all this rubbish to one side and show some respect for our soldiers past and present.

in answer to this comment we entered the 2nd world war because of the acts of genocide being committed against a group of people who practiced a different religion."

No we did not. We entered WW2 because Germany invaded Poland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sadly many have died in the pursuit of Western greed as opposed to the defence of personal freedom. That's the point behind what is being made by some on this thread.

Does that offend you?"

I think on a day like today it is irrelevant 'why' people lost their lives or the machinations of why war is waged. It is a day to remember that people fought n many never came home to their families

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sadly many have died in the pursuit of Western greed as opposed to the defence of personal freedom. That's the point behind what is being made by some on this thread.

Does that offend you?

I think on a day like today it is irrelevant 'why' people lost their lives or the machinations of why war is waged. It is a day to remember that people fought n many never came home to their families"

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By *rivate auditionsMan
over a year ago

West Midlands

To the OP I would say read "For the Fallen".

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old.

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning

We will remember them""

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By *rivate auditionsMan
over a year ago

West Midlands

[Removed by poster at 10/11/13 14:00:06]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sadly many have died in the pursuit of Western greed as opposed to the defence of personal freedom. That's the point behind what is being made by some on this thread.

Does that offend you?

well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sadly many have died in the pursuit of Western greed as opposed to the defence of personal freedom. That's the point behind what is being made by some on this thread.

Does that offend you?

This is where we disagree. I believe I have a duty to remember them, but to also remember why they died lest I ever forget and disrespect their memory by supporting any future greed based campaign.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sadly many have died in the pursuit of Western greed as opposed to the defence of personal freedom. That's the point behind what is being made by some on this thread.

Does that offend you?

I think on a day like today it is irrelevant 'why' people lost their lives or the machinations of why war is waged. It is a day to remember that people fought n many never came home to their families

This is where we disagree. I believe I have a duty to remember them, but to also remember why they died lest I ever forget and disrespect their memory by supporting any future greed based campaign. "

A pertinent sentiment but I'm afraid that even current conflicts are based in greed even if it's merely the greed of oil etc etc. There are 364 other days a year to debate the dubious ethics of war but for one day we should only focus on the people who were caught up in conflict

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

just a personal observation i have made over my 48 yrs of life, 11th Nov everyone jumps on the bandwagon (rememberance day etc) but the other 364 days in the year i never once hear anyone praising or remembering the so called unsung heros!

why's that i wonder?

Billy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sadly many have died in the pursuit of Western greed as opposed to the defence of personal freedom. That's the point behind what is being made by some on this thread.

Does that offend you?

I think on a day like today it is irrelevant 'why' people lost their lives or the machinations of why war is waged. It is a day to remember that people fought n many never came home to their families

This is where we disagree. I believe I have a duty to remember them, but to also remember why they died lest I ever forget and disrespect their memory by supporting any future greed based campaign. "

what is this world coming to when we cannot show respect for the service personnel past and present

nothing more nothing less.

the rest of the rubbish is irrelevant at this time.

its time to leave this thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

sometimes i wonder where the accusations on disrespecting the forces come from, when probably most are just trying to say we respect human life enough to question whether or not we agree it had to be taken.

The symbol of remembrance unfortunately has also been misrepresented from its probable actual meaning so much over the years.

By my understanding the most powerful symbols in humanity(CND,poppy,swastika), have been twisted to very different ideals from which they were based on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What an absolute feed of horse shit!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All depends if you believe in the myth of democracy in a capitalist consumer society.

I got hammered for saying people fought for freedom in WWII in another post.

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By *TMA that man againMan
over a year ago

worester

what

a load of crap the money goes to help solders that have been in all

wars some had no choice but to go

i used to work in for the royal star and garter home for ex solder and

wives and if it was not for help and support of the poppy apeal we could

not give the help and care that we do keep up the good work every one who helps and supports

"It doesn't glamourise war.

It reminds us of the horror and offers some pitiful relief to injured

soldiers and bereaved families."

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Sadly many have died in the pursuit of Western greed as opposed to the defence of personal freedom. That's the point behind what is being made by some on this thread.

Does that offend you?

I think on a day like today it is irrelevant 'why' people lost their lives or the machinations of why war is waged. It is a day to remember that people fought n many never came home to their families

This is where we disagree. I believe I have a duty to remember them, but to also remember why they died lest I ever forget and disrespect their memory by supporting any future greed based campaign.

what is this world coming to when we cannot show respect for the service personnel past and present

nothing more nothing less.

the rest of the rubbish is irrelevant at this time.

its time to leave this thread."

In most cases its a well paid job, with risks, I don't think anyone is forced to join the forces, in uk, I may be wrong.

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

not at all .. some of the old boys selling the poppies are missing limbs or have terrible burn scars

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By *uke olovingmanMan
over a year ago

Gravesend

not at all .. some of the old boys selling the poppies are missing limbs or have terrible burn scars

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The poppy is called the remembrance poppy !!!! not the glorify war poppy !!!!!

It's through remembrance that we can pay tribute to the fallen who gave the utmost sacrifice for freedom and also to reflect on how futile war is although sometimes necessary and unavoidable.

Soon as the last survivors of the wars pass away there will no longer be living memory of the terror and sacrifice. It's that memory that prevents large scale wars , lest we forget then we might experience WW3 and god help us !!!!!!

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"The poppy is called the remembrance poppy !!!! not the glorify war poppy !!!!!

It's through remembrance that we can pay tribute to the fallen who gave the utmost sacrifice for freedom and also to reflect on how futile war is although sometimes necessary and unavoidable.

This

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Next year will mark 100 years since WWI began.

This weekend also commemorates Cristalnacht.

Remembrance with the Poppy marks those who fought and supported the fighting effort but let us never forget the other casualties of war.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The poppy is called the remembrance poppy !!!! not the glorify war poppy !!!!!

It's through remembrance that we can pay tribute to the fallen who gave the utmost sacrifice for freedom and also to reflect on how futile war is although sometimes necessary and unavoidable.

don't kid yourself, when oil starts to get more expensive, there will be another war, its not about memories, its about greed and power!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't kid yourself , oil is already too expensive that's why when OPEC put it up the revenue dropped through lack of demand , plus there are plenty of things in the pipeline prepared for when it runs out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some right muppets posting on here!!! Let's see what you have to say if a member of your family were killed in a terrorist situation!! Wonder if your views would change?? I wear my poppy with pride for my friends that are still serving and who are now veterans. I laid my poppy cross today for my friend killed 3 years ago I kissed it as I layed it down as I have for the last 3 years. Tonight as last night I will have one of 'our' night caps to remember him. So how date some on here suggest it glorifies war you should be ashamed those lads are fighting for our country show them the respect they deserve. As for the post on the marine who shot the Taliban only mistake made was laughing about it. Didn't the Taliban do exactly the same to those red caps a few years ago!!! It's called war. Stick a terrorist or Taliban fighter In front of me with a gun I would do the same, least he killed a adult, Taliban encourage children to fight give them guns to shoot British soldiers how is that right. Rant over show some respect as you clearly have no idea what it's like for those of us left behind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Some right muppets posting on here!!! Let's see what you have to say if a member of your family were killed in a terrorist situation!! Wonder if your views would change?? I wear my poppy with pride for my friends that are still serving and who are now veterans. I laid my poppy cross today for my friend killed 3 years ago I kissed it as I layed it down as I have for the last 3 years. Tonight as last night I will have one of 'our' night caps to remember him. So how date

some on here suggest it glorifies war you should be ashamed those lads are fighting for our country show them the respect they deserve. As for the post on the marine who shot the Taliban only mistake made was laughing about it. Didn't the Taliban do exactly the same to those red caps a few years ago!!! It's called war. Stick a terrorist or Taliban fighter In front of me with a gun I would do the same, least he killed a adult, Taliban encourage children to fight give them guns to shoot British soldiers how is that right. Rant over show some respect as you clearly have no idea what it's like for those of us left behind. "

The next major war will occur out of ignorance !!!, like the original post and poster. Ignorance of others views ,beliefs and religion,ignorance of fact, and history,ignorance of the rule of law , ignorance of the will of the people , ignorance of respect

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By *andyblokeMan
over a year ago

birmingham

that says it all to me nicely put.

To mis- quote Harry Patch"in 1918 they sat down in a railway carriage and finished the war. Why couldnt they have done that in the first palce". wise words.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To the op i think that you are in the wrong as the poppy appeal helps ex service personnel and the royal British legion are a charity

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Asking a question, isn't ignorance, its to hear other peoples views.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"To the op i think that you are in the wrong as the poppy appeal helps ex service personnel and the royal British legion are a charity"

I think that's part of the problem, why should anyone who has fought and suffered for their country need charity.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

There should be no need for the elderly and war veterans to have to receive charity!

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By *andyblokeMan
over a year ago

birmingham

that is not true people and the media do talk about the terrible price of war through out the year! Nov 11th just provides a very visible reminder and focus.You say -- "So called unsung hero's" how insulting can you get! So now please tell us all "why is that i wonder" Billy?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They need charity at times as the government is full of thieves and Politian's looking to line there own pockets

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To the op i think that you are in the wrong as the poppy appeal helps ex service personnel and the royal British legion are a charity

I think that's part of the problem, why should anyone who has fought and suffered for their country need charity."

Sorry I disagree I think your question is offensive to those that have sacrificed ,( glorifying war) and served or serving.

I have been around service personnel and I have visited the war graves at Normandy , both Allied and German, to see thousand a of graves some barely 18 years of age , such a sad waste of life , no glory in those graveyards just sadness , but also respect !!!!! I for one admire and will remember them for fighting for freedom or tyranny so that we can live as we do in my country

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By *ucsparkMan
over a year ago

dudley

To the OP, I love my country, served it and paid my taxes. I do not like war and definitely do not like the thought of someone dying for my freedom. Some of us get to remember our friends, family and colleagues everyday. For others the poppy is their way of remembering those that did not make it back, it also helps the ones who have made it back that needs their countries help but get little or none. One of the great things about us is our charity, please don't try and take that away from us. I am sure the government will find a way to tax it at some point

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Utter bollocks!

Poppies are a symbol for those who've given their lives in wars and conflicts. It doesn't matter which side you're one, what god you worship or who leads your country. It's a simple mark of respect and thanks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There should be no need for the elderly and war veterans to have to receive charity!"

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By *ucsparkMan
over a year ago

dudley

"There should be no need for the elderly and war veterans to have to receive charity!

This is very true I say write to your MP and tell them

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I do my bit, quietly, without drama.

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By *ucsparkMan
over a year ago

dudley

"I do my bit, quietly, without drama."

As most people do but showing you are bothered is never a bad thing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do my bit, quietly, without drama."
. Really that suprised me as u caused enough fucking drama with your post!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I do my bit, quietly, without drama.. Really that suprised me as u caused enough fucking drama with your post!"

popping 50p in a box once a year means very little, in the scheme of things

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I do my bit, quietly, without drama.. Really that suprised me as u caused enough fucking drama with your post!"

The OP is a question, not a statement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The money from poppies goes to the Royal British Legion, who have had a huge drop in funds after Help For Heroes came along with their famous patrons. I'm happy about that."

The royal British legion does a lot of help financially for younger people that have served as we'll. they helped me out and stopped me from losing my house a few years ago. That help was only available because of donations that people had made to them.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

WTF are you talking about? The people on the front line have always moaned about their "lot", but they got on with the job. The only difference now is 24 hour news and social media. Its a soldiers right to bitch, about the food, their kit, their accommodation, being away ftom their families etc. It is what they have always done.

Are you seriously suggesting that those who served in Korea, eden, northern ireland, South Atlantic, Bosnia, and many more are undeserving?

Are you that naive to think British troops didn't carry out random acts of unjustified violence on the enemy during both world wars?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The money from poppies goes to the Royal British Legion, who have had a huge drop in funds after Help For Heroes came along with their famous patrons. I'm happy about that.

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By *mm_n_ZedCouple
over a year ago

Fareham

"I do my bit, quietly, without drama.. Really that suprised me as u caused enough fucking drama with your post!"

I never witness any drama around remembrance day. Just a lot of ordinary people quietly going about their business wearing a small red poppy as a mark of respect. Where's the drama?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace.

I totally get your point and so would others if they took the emotive side out of it. Unfortunately due to the death toll and suffering that goes alongside of war, it is incredibly difficult to do.

When we went into the second world war our freedom was NOT on the line in September 1939.

can we leave all this rubbish to one side and show some respect for our soldiers past and present.

in answer to this comment we entered the 2nd world war because of the acts of genocide being committed against a group of people who practiced a different religion."

Wrong

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By *imjohnCouple
over a year ago

Clacton on sea, Essex

You don't shoot cowards in the back.

Anyone who shoots someone in the back, in cold blood, is the coward."

No he should face a firing squad so the soldiers shooting him can see what lowlife scum he is...instead there will be a big cover up which will alienate people to the idea of war (for the right reasons or not) even more.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

You don't shoot cowards in the back.

Anyone who shoots someone in the back, in cold blood, is the coward.

Oh that cover up that resulted in his court martial? Yeah that was some cover up.

Are we also going to put the soldiers responsible for 'bloody Sunday' against the wall as well? Or are you selective in who is shot?

Are you volunteering to pull the trigger, or is that left to some 'squaddie"?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's a bit like saying condoms promote sti's and pregnancy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly I am absolutely horrified with some comments on here. Some of the people in ww 1 & 2 signed up themselves as we'll, they weren't made to so should we just forget about them as well

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's a bit like saying condoms promote sti's and pregnancy."

Which means poppies protect us from war. That should cut our defence budget

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

Honestly I am absolutely horrified with some comments on here. Some of the people in ww 1 & 2 signed up themselves as we'll, they weren't made to so should we just forget about them as well "

"Horrified" is an understatement. Trying to suggest that current service personnel need to "stfu", maybe arm chair warriors need to STFU!

How many tours had that marine done? How many friends and colleagues had he seen mutilated or killed? His actions were wrong, really fucked up, but these arm chair warriors need to consider what he had been through. Does that absolve his crimes? No, but does go somewhere in mitigation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly I am absolutely horrified with some comments on here. Some of the people in ww 1 & 2 signed up themselves as we'll, they weren't made to so should we just forget about them as well

"Horrified" is an understatement. Trying to suggest that current service personnel need to "stfu", maybe arm chair warriors need to STFU!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace.

I totally get your point and so would others if they took the emotive side out of it. Unfortunately due to the death toll and suffering that goes alongside of war, it is incredibly difficult to do.

When we went into the second world war our freedom was NOT on the line in September 1939.

can we leave all this rubbish to one side and show some respect for our soldiers past and present.

in answer to this comment we entered the 2nd world war because of the acts of genocide being committed against a group of people who practiced a different religion.

Wrong"

please enlighten me

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

So. We've had Israel and Ulster dragged into this.

Dresden anyone? Coventry? The Belgrano?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace.

I totally get your point and so would others if they took the emotive side out of it. Unfortunately due to the death toll and suffering that goes alongside of war, it is incredibly difficult to do.

When we went into the second world war our freedom was NOT on the line in September 1939.

can we leave all this rubbish to one side and show some respect for our soldiers past and present.

in answer to this comment we entered the 2nd world war because of the acts of genocide being committed against a group of people who practiced a different religion.

Wrong

please enlighten me

Germany's invasion of Poland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you seriously suggesting that those who served in Korea, eden, northern ireland, South Atlantic, Bosnia, and many more are undeserving?

Are you that naive to think British troops didn't carry out random acts of unjustified violence on the enemy during both world wars?

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By *at2Couple
over a year ago

north Down

Politicians in league with the industrial military complex create wars and kill people not poppies...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace.

I totally get your point and so would others if they took the emotive side out of it. Unfortunately due to the death toll and suffering that goes alongside of war, it is incredibly difficult to do.

When we went into the second world war our freedom was NOT on the line in September 1939.

can we leave all this rubbish to one side and show some respect for our soldiers past and present.

in answer to this comment we entered the 2nd world war because of the acts of genocide being committed against a group of people who practiced a different religion.

Wrong

please enlighten me

Germany's invasion of Poland. "

that may have been the straw that broke the camels back.

from 1933 onwards Hitler was arresting his political opponents and prominent Jews and placing them in concentration camps.

Germany annexed Austria in 1938

Germany annexed parts of Czechoslovakia in 1938 which was later conceded by Britain and France in the Munich agreement

Hitler then demanded that Czechoslovakia give up more land to Poland and Hungary

whilst this was all going on he was making all Jews were the yellow star of David on their clothes boycotted shops attacking them openly in the streets

he was creating ghettos for women and children and arrested the men and placed them into concentration camps.

in early 1939 he accused britain and Jewish war mongers (his words) before he annexed the remainder of Czechoslovakia

Britain and France offered support to Poland

all the time he was persecuting a race of people for their religious beliefs.

Poland was a line he could not cross

a point of no return

even if he hadn't invaded Poland war was inevitable because of beliefs and actions towards the Jews from 1933 onwards.

and our fore fathers fought this tyrant to defend the weak from persecution and not because of money/power/land as you insinuated earlier.

he also ordered his naval forces to challenge the British navy in January 1939 this was 8 months before the outbreak of ww2

therefore our way of life was at risk before he invaded Poland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It staggers me that such insensitive bull shit is being spouted here all over something simple, a symbol of respect and remeberance that has become synonymous in the British isles. leave the politics and the liberal left wing thinking at the front door and have some respect for the fallen, the serving and their families!

Rant over.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It staggers me that such insensitive bull shit is being spouted here all over something simple, a symbol of respect and remeberance that has become synonymous in the British isles. leave the politics and the liberal left wing thinking at the front door and have some respect for the fallen, the serving and their families!

Rant over."

here here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace.

I totally get your point and so would others if they took the emotive side out of it. Unfortunately due to the death toll and suffering that goes alongside of war, it is incredibly difficult to do.

When we went into the second world war our freedom was NOT on the line in September 1939.

can we leave all this rubbish to one side and show some respect for our soldiers past and present.

in answer to this comment we entered the 2nd world war because of the acts of genocide being committed against a group of people who practiced a different religion.

Wrong

please enlighten me

Germany's invasion of Poland.

that may have been the straw that broke the camels back.

from 1933 onwards Hitler was arresting his political opponents and prominent Jews and placing them in concentration camps.

Germany annexed Austria in 1938

Germany annexed parts of Czechoslovakia in 1938 which was later conceded by Britain and France in the Munich agreement

Hitler then demanded that Czechoslovakia give up more land to Poland and Hungary

whilst this was all going on he was making all Jews were the yellow star of David on their clothes boycotted shops attacking them openly in the streets

he was creating ghettos for women and children and arrested the men and placed them into concentration camps.

in early 1939 he accused britain and Jewish war mongers (his words) before he annexed the remainder of Czechoslovakia

Britain and France offered support to Poland

all the time he was persecuting a race of people for their religious beliefs.

Poland was a line he could not cross

a point of no return

even if he hadn't invaded Poland war was inevitable because of beliefs and actions towards the Jews from 1933 onwards.

and our fore fathers fought this tyrant to defend the weak from persecution and not because of money/power/land as you insinuated earlier.

he also ordered his naval forces to challenge the British navy in January 1939 this was 8 months before the outbreak of ww2

therefore our way of life was at risk before he invaded Poland."

we did not go to war due to the genocide of peoples practising a different religion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace.

I totally get your point and so would others if they took the emotive side out of it. Unfortunately due to the death toll and suffering that goes alongside of war, it is incredibly difficult to do.

When we went into the second world war our freedom was NOT on the line in September 1939.

can we leave all this rubbish to one side and show some respect for our soldiers past and present.

in answer to this comment we entered the 2nd world war because of the acts of genocide being committed against a group of people who practiced a different religion.

Wrong

please enlighten me

Germany's invasion of Poland.

that may have been the straw that broke the camels back.

from 1933 onwards Hitler was arresting his political opponents and prominent Jews and placing them in concentration camps.

Germany annexed Austria in 1938

Germany annexed parts of Czechoslovakia in 1938 which was later conceded by Britain and France in the Munich agreement

Hitler then demanded that Czechoslovakia give up more land to Poland and Hungary

whilst this was all going on he was making all Jews were the yellow star of David on their clothes boycotted shops attacking them openly in the streets

he was creating ghettos for women and children and arrested the men and placed them into concentration camps.

in early 1939 he accused britain and Jewish war mongers (his words) before he annexed the remainder of Czechoslovakia

Britain and France offered support to Poland

all the time he was persecuting a race of people for their religious beliefs.

Poland was a line he could not cross

a point of no return

even if he hadn't invaded Poland war was inevitable because of beliefs and actions towards the Jews from 1933 onwards.

and our fore fathers fought this tyrant to defend the weak from persecution and not because of money/power/land as you insinuated earlier.

he also ordered his naval forces to challenge the British navy in January 1939 this was 8 months before the outbreak of ww2

therefore our way of life was at risk before he invaded Poland.

we did not go to war due to the genocide of peoples practising a different religion.

so was it money/power/land as you insinuated earlier.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lets hope this post is meant in jest.

Let us not forget that the proceeds go to ex-service personnel in need.

Have to ask, are you ex-forces?

Wars are fought for control, and for greed, the only people who benefit are people with a financial interest in gain and wealth.

The royal family is where they are because of war, and killing for land and control.

More money is spent on war than on peace.

I totally get your point and so would others if they took the emotive side out of it. Unfortunately due to the death toll and suffering that goes alongside of war, it is incredibly difficult to do.

When we went into the second world war our freedom was NOT on the line in September 1939.

can we leave all this rubbish to one side and show some respect for our soldiers past and present.

in answer to this comment we entered the 2nd world war because of the acts of genocide being committed against a group of people who practiced a different religion.

Wrong

please enlighten me

Germany's invasion of Poland.

that may have been the straw that broke the camels back.

from 1933 onwards Hitler was arresting his political opponents and prominent Jews and placing them in concentration camps.

Germany annexed Austria in 1938

Germany annexed parts of Czechoslovakia in 1938 which was later conceded by Britain and France in the Munich agreement

Hitler then demanded that Czechoslovakia give up more land to Poland and Hungary

whilst this was all going on he was making all Jews were the yellow star of David on their clothes boycotted shops attacking them openly in the streets

he was creating ghettos for women and children and arrested the men and placed them into concentration camps.

in early 1939 he accused britain and Jewish war mongers (his words) before he annexed the remainder of Czechoslovakia

Britain and France offered support to Poland

all the time he was persecuting a race of people for their religious beliefs.

Poland was a line he could not cross

a point of no return

even if he hadn't invaded Poland war was inevitable because of beliefs and actions towards the Jews from 1933 onwards.

and our fore fathers fought this tyrant to defend the weak from persecution and not because of money/power/land as you insinuated earlier.

he also ordered his naval forces to challenge the British navy in January 1939 this was 8 months before the outbreak of ww2

therefore our way of life was at risk before he invaded Poland.

we did not go to war due to the genocide of peoples practising a different religion.

so was it money/power/land as you insinuated earlier."

Yes.

Reparations - mein kampf - scape-goating- restoring Germany - failed appeasement - one side (us and France) wanted to restrict hitler's restoration of Germany goal. Hitler defied that by invading Poland. The treatment of the Jews, gypsies, gays and any other undesirables was ignored.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

World War II was a direct result of World War I. Middle East, Syria and Palestine are also a direct result of World War I.

Many in this country were happy to leave the Jewish situation out of it and it was the Polish invasion that pushed the decision towards war rather than appeasement.

Knowing that doesn't stop anyone from dying in these wars and it certainly doesn't stop us from remembering the dead and the living of those wars.

I understand people feel strongly but opinions and debate about this really don't have to descend into slanging matches. Where is the respect there?

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

[Removed by poster at 10/11/13 20:12:31]

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By *opinovMan
over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

Anyone who thinks understanding and respect for the sacrifices of those lost or injured in war is best measured by the wearing of a poppy needs to get a grip.

Is it really fair to suppose one doesn't care or respect if one choses not to wear one?.. I very much think not.

Pardon me for saying so, but I believe what lies behind this current trend to pressure people to wear a poppy (or display one one as an avatar or whatever) is the same jingoistic mentality that prompted women to hand men of "fighting age" a white feather for not being in uniform for no other reason than to shame them into going to the trenches to die for nothing other than the pride of the ruling classes.

I think a great deal about the injustices of the world and the part wars have played in perpetuating them. I think about it a great deal, I care about it a great deal and I have the greatest of respect for all those innocents forced to march to their deaths on the strength of very same jingoism and emotional blackmail displayed in the words of those who try to imply that those of us who haven't mimicked their choice are being disrespectful.

Whilst I would agree that the purpose of Armistice Day (or Remembrance Day, as it has become) is to commemorate the sacrifice of those who fell or suffered in war, a sentiment I'd also not take any issue with, I would say that there is a considerable element of jingoism that has crept into the occasion and rituals in the last couple of decades. Whereas before, it was optional for a politician or TV presenter to wear a poppy and little was said if they chose not to, there is now a tendency for near hysterical outcry if they present themselves in public without one - please don't tell me you haven't noticed this.

If I wish, I'll wear a poppy on the 11th and pay my own personal respects in my own way to those members of my family whom I might have known had they not felt pressurised by the threat of white feathers to go and die in a meaningless war - but I won't wear it simply because someone tells me to. Instead, I choose to show my respect by continuing to stand up for the freedom all these men and women died for by resisting such jingoistic peer pressure.

It's not the poppy I'm taking issue with ... I know it's just a flower and I understand perfectly well why it was chosen and the significance of its affinity for disturbed ground. But, like all symbols, its use and meaning can be twisted out of shape from its original intent if we're not careful... and, more often than not, that twisting occurs in a manner that is geared to engender widespread approval of otherwise unrelated (and unpalatable) ideas that may, for the sake of convenience alone, be associated with it. A white feather is, after all, just a white feather - what could possibly be jingoistic about such an innocent and innocuous thing as that?

As for the financial support that is due to the families of those who have fallen and the assistance to those who are disabled from their wounds, surely you have also noticed that this has increasingly been deemed the responsibility of charities like the British Legion and Help for Heroes instead of the state. It's a real shame that our generation has allowed this to happen and it is no coincidence that it has come about synchronously with the rise in public umbrage at those not wearing a poppy.

I understand that it may be a personal thing for some, and I hope my words haven't offended, but it's very personal for me too. Please don't undermine the freedom of choice that all these people died for. If people want to wear a poppy on Armistice Day, then that's fine - if they don't then that is also their choice and we should respect that too ... but making it mandatory cheapens the whole thing and renders it meaningless.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

[Removed by poster at 10/11/13 20:15:34]

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Anyone who thinks understanding and respect for the sacrifices of those lost or injured in war is best measured by the wearing of a poppy needs to get a grip.

Is it really fair to suppose one doesn't care or respect if one choses not to wear one?.. I very much think not.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes

My Great Grandfather was 23 when he went out to Flanders in August 1914. He left behind a very pregnant wife. He was killed in action on the 9th of November, 1914. He never saw his daughter who was two months old by that time. The poppy, for me, is a symbol of WWI, my purchasing one every year being my way of commemorating his life and death and commemorates and honours all of those who have come after him, dead, injured, left behind. That's what the poppy means to me and a lot of others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Anyone who thinks understanding and respect for the sacrifices of those lost or injured in war is best measured by the wearing of a poppy needs to get a grip.

Is it really fair to suppose one doesn't care or respect if one choses not to wear one?.. I very much think not.

excellent post!!

on the fiancial side of things i feel i should comment back and say that yes it should fall on the government to help to support those that need it.

im my case where i recieved help from ssafa who got in touch with the british legion plus my old regiment to get some help for me i cant thank them enough. some of that money obviously come from the government but had been through other channels before getting to me if that made sense.

i have always from the age of about 13 tried to do something where i can to help support the rbl even if it isnt financially but i think a lot of people seem to think that the only thing they deal with is people from ww1/2 or people that have been injured in conflict. i am none of the above but because i had been a serving member that had fell on hard times and really struggled financially for a while (not due to any resaon to do with the forces) they were there to help when no one else was. i think people need to realise that the poppy appeal isnt just aimed at remembering the people that have lost there lives in conflicts but it is also there to support anybody. they would never turn there back on anybody regardless of there situation, beliefs, creed or disability. i owe them a lot for what they done for me ands my family and i could never thank them enough for what they have done as well as the people that have donated because if it wasnt for them then i could of ended up living on the streets.

because of the help and support that i have recieved from them i managed to get myself back on my feet.

i wear my poppy not to just remember the fallen and living that have sacrificed so much but also because of the help that they have shown and giving me.

sorry if this is a bit of a ramble on

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

SSAFA do a sterling job, and I have supported them since I found out about them about40 years ago.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"SSAFA do a sterling job, and I have supported them since I found out about them about40 years ago."

i dont think enough people know about the good that they do and i didnt realise they would be able to help me for the situation i was in until talking to someone from the local council who put me in touch with them.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

my brother was injured in ADEN, many years ago and ssafa were their to help rehabilitate him, so I started raising money by holding show jumping events, and I still do 40 yrs later.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a rarity to find a post like this on a forum like this; absolutely 100% correct, it's just a shame that those who know the truth are almost all gone.

War is glorified way too much on our media, - I guess it does what it's meant to do & get in to the heads of the masses!

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

On the 20th of April 2013, my hero died! Here was a man who had seen the 2nd World War at close quarters and had witnessed the horrors first hand. He was my dad...

He was taken out of Dunkirk as one of the last Allies to get out and after many other excursions into Europe, went back in on D Day on Sword Beach.

He made his way into Germany and by some strange quirk of fate, became a despatch rider. (He was the only person left that knew how to ride a motorbike!) His missions were sometimes easy and sometimes hard, but something totally changed him.

He was with the British troops who liberated Bergen-Belson Concentration Camp. His life changed from that moment and he became more gentle and caring, according to my dear old mum! He joined the Salvation Army and spent the rest of his life trying to do good for others.

The point? Well, the point is he always wore his poppy with pride and would have been very offended if someone had accused him of "glorifying war". He was totally against war in all its forms, but was totally "with" the soldiers who put themselves in the front line.

He never spoke much about the War, but did write his experiences down and mum told us of other things he had done, along with my Uncle who was in the SBS later in the war.

Writing or broadcasting for effect is quite prevalent these days and people do it under the guise of starting a "debate" when in reality they just want to be noticed..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've just seen this post and quite honestly I'm appalled. I am proud to have served and to have protected my country.

In doing this I have lost friends and my health. The British Legion do a phenomenal job raising money through the poppy appeal to help service personnel and their families. Unfortunately although a good charity help for heroes has taken away from the legion and the need is more than ever now.

Lest we forget!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You don't shoot cowards in the back.

Anyone who shoots someone in the back, in cold blood, is the coward.

We buy Poppies & donate money to charities etc for dead & injured men but it sometimes goes against the grain when you hear the army top dogs condone war crimes, like Israel our soldiers also will think its fine to kill unarmed civilians..."
. Are you serious he should face a firing squad???? Isn't that what he did every day while serving every day in Afghanistan. Do you know what he saw in that place? Did you see him picking up limbs of his friends or carry them on stretchers. Have you ever done that with your friends???? The only mistake that soldier has made was laughing about it, but in that environment some stuff that happens is called banter and the way the lads deal with it. I'm backing him for his actions lets not make him the only scape goat, a lot of bad things in war happen. The red caps were killed in the same way but by Taliban. And if I had the option of killing a Taliban to bring my mate back from the angels I wouldn't even need to take breath to answer.

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By *imjohnCouple
over a year ago

Clacton on sea, Essex

You don't shoot cowards in the back.

Anyone who shoots someone in the back, in cold blood, is the coward.

We buy Poppies & donate money to charities etc for dead & injured men but it sometimes goes against the grain when you hear the army top dogs condone war crimes, like Israel our soldiers also will think its fine to kill unarmed civilians.... Are you serious he should face a firing squad???? Isn't that what he did every day while serving every day in Afghanistan. Do you know what he saw in that place? Did you see him picking up limbs of his friends or carry them on stretchers. Have you ever done that with your friends???? The only mistake that soldier has made was laughing about it, but in that environment some stuff that happens is called banter and the way the lads deal with it. I'm backing him for his actions lets not make him the only scape goat, a lot of bad things in war happen. The red caps were killed in the same way but by Taliban. And if I had the option of killing a Taliban to bring my mate back from the angels I wouldn't even need to take breath to answer. "

These guys sign up for war which is very gallant & heroic for 99% of them but rules are rules, when they cowardly murder other men they are criminals & no longer soldiers.

Poppies are a symbol for the brave men past & present who have fought for England, the thug/thugs who murdered an injured man are a disgrace to the army & our people.

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By *at2Couple
over a year ago

north Down

"Anyone who thinks understanding and respect for the sacrifices of those lost or injured in war is best measured by the wearing of a poppy needs to get a grip.

Is it really fair to suppose one doesn't care or respect if one choses not to wear one?.. I very much think not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You don't shoot cowards in the back.

Anyone who shoots someone in the back, in cold blood, is the coward.

We buy Poppies & donate money to charities etc for dead & injured men but it sometimes goes against the grain when you hear the army top dogs condone war crimes, like Israel our soldiers also will think its fine to kill unarmed civilians.... Are you serious he should face a firing squad???? Isn't that what he did every day while serving every day in Afghanistan. Do you know what he saw in that place? Did you see him picking up limbs of his friends or carry them on stretchers. Have you ever done that with your friends???? The only mistake that soldier has made was laughing about it, but in that environment some stuff that happens is called banter and the way the lads deal with it. I'm backing him for his actions lets not make him the only scape goat, a lot of bad things in war happen. The red caps were killed in the same way but by Taliban. And if I had the option of killing a Taliban to bring my mate back from the angels I wouldn't even need to take breath to answer.

These guys sign up for war which is very gallant & heroic for 99% of them but rules are rules, when they cowardly murder other men they are criminals & no longer soldiers.

Poppies are a symbol for the brave men past & present who have fought for England, the thug/thugs who murdered an injured man are a disgrace to the army & our people.

"
. So all soldiers sign up for war do they??? I don't think so some do it as it's a family tradition. Some to get away from the situation they may be in if from deprived areas. Others join to better them self. So no they don't join for war. Many serving soldiers were already in the forces prior to the war starting. How is shooting a terrorist cowardly???? Isn't that what's happening everyday in that hell hole?? Does that make every soldier cowardly as he is taking another's life. It's happened to our troop too caught and torchure or trapped like the red caps were. It's fact every soldier in that place with a gun has more than likely killed. I don't think he's a disgrace at all I'm not ashamed of him either as I've said you or I have no idea what he has seen or done. You really need to get of your soap box and chat to serving soldiers because your clearly seeing war through rose tinted glasses.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

You don't shoot cowards in the back.

Anyone who shoots someone in the back, in cold blood, is the coward.

We buy Poppies & donate money to charities etc for dead & injured men but it sometimes goes against the grain when you hear the army top dogs condone war crimes, like Israel our soldiers also will think its fine to kill unarmed civilians.... Are you serious he should face a firing squad???? Isn't that what he did every day while serving every day in Afghanistan. Do you know what he saw in that place? Did you see him picking up limbs of his friends or carry them on stretchers. Have you ever done that with your friends???? The only mistake that soldier has made was laughing about it, but in that environment some stuff that happens is called banter and the way the lads deal with it. I'm backing him for his actions lets not make him the only scape goat, a lot of bad things in war happen. The red caps were killed in the same way but by Taliban. And if I had the option of killing a Taliban to bring my mate back from the angels I wouldn't even need to take breath to answer.

These guys sign up for war which is very gallant & heroic for 99% of them but rules are rules, when they cowardly murder other men they are criminals & no longer soldiers.

Poppies are a symbol for the brave men past & present who have fought for England, the thug/thugs who murdered an injured man are a disgrace to the army & our people.

. So all soldiers sign up for war do they??? I don't think so some do it as it's a family tradition. Some to get away from the situation they may be in if from deprived areas. Others join to better them self. So no they don't join for war. Many serving soldiers were already in the forces prior to the war starting. How is shooting a terrorist cowardly???? Isn't that what's happening everyday in that hell hole?? Does that make every soldier cowardly as he is taking another's life. It's happened to our troop too caught and torchure or trapped like the red caps were. It's fact every soldier in that place with a gun has more than likely killed. I don't think he's a disgrace at all I'm not ashamed of him either as I've said you or I have no idea what he has seen or done. You really need to get of your soap box and chat to serving soldiers because your clearly seeing war through rose tinted glasses. "

War has rules. Soldiers signing up for whatever reason know they are first on call if there is a war. They are taught the rules. I agree we don't know what he saw or experienced but if you follow that line then every disturbed murderer has that in built defence.

You have been on a soap box too. There is no need to take your anger out on others posing a different view to yours. Debate isn't about shouting people down for not thinking as you do.

You feel strongly, that is clear. You have experienced the pain of losing people to conflict, that is clear. I feel sorry for your pain and loss. Others have experienced similar and will view it differently. Their loss and response is no less valid than your own.

Once again I shall say where is the respect in that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

After all war is about the rich controlling the poor and greed.

To me that's one interpretation of war , not all , however there was no chance I was going to post on this inflammatory thread yesterday ...of all days.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

After all war is about the rich controlling the poor and greed.

To me that's one interpretation of war , not all , however there was no chance I was going to post on this inflammatory thread yesterday ...of all days."

So you waited until armistice day instead!

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

When the first poppy is made which plays 'Celebration' by Kool & The Gang (when you press the black bit in the middle) then I may consider it has gone a step too far towards glamorising war.

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich

"I do my bit, quietly, without drama.. Really that suprised me as u caused enough fucking drama with your post!

The OP is a question, not a statement."

But the title of the thread is a statement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

in a word NO. we will remember them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I remember on year in the 80s on the TV news there was an artical. NOt big, think it was the bit right at the end about commemorating 40 or 45 years since the Normandy landing. There was a very short film of it and shot and mention of a small group of protesters holding up a banner reading: 'Give Peace a Chance'. To me there seemed to be a clear line there. That's certainly how it all was during the Thatcher era, of course. All seems rather blurred now though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As so few countries have the poppy and looking at the civil unrest and war in other countries the answer is plain that it has no effect and if anything is more likely to draw attention to the fact people die in war. I am surprised you asked as the answer is so obvious.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I do my bit, quietly, without drama.. Really that suprised me as u caused enough fucking drama with your post!

The OP is a question, not a statement.

But the title of the thread is a statement."

My post was a question, the title was to draw attention to the question, and thanks everyone for a great thread, great to read about everyone's thoughts and experiences.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do my bit, quietly, without drama.. Really that suprised me as u caused enough fucking drama with your post!

The OP is a question, not a statement.

But the title of the thread is a statement.

My post was a question, the title was to draw attention to the question, and thanks everyone for a great thread, great to read about everyone's thoughts and experiences.

If you had more about you then you would have put "Do" at the start of the thread title.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Thankyou for your opinion, my original post has had the desired outcome, its made people think and express their views, job done!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I couldn't agree more!!!

I have the utmost respect for the vast majority of soldiers who are a credit to our country in the way they conduct themselves but I do have a problem with the corrupt governments and politicians who start wars in our name.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep, some countries don't have poppies yet remember their fallen, & more importantly - they show this by having enough respect for their own people by not sending them in to conflict in unjust wars. LEST WE FORGET - remember?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thankyou for your opinion, my original post has had the desired outcome, its made people think and express their views, job done!"

Frankly I don't think it made people think it made them react if you had been able to stretch your self a little and constructed in in a better way it might have made people think but in reality it didn't but you have to think about how you title things if you want a thought provoking answer I guess that was bit far for you to reach.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I couldn't agree more!!!

From an earlier time, lamenting the press gangs which 'recruited' off the north and west coasts of Scotland ('cos the men were fine sailors).

"Why, why must the poor man always pay,

Why must he fight the battle when he has so little say.

He doesn't hate the Spaniard and he kens not what is right,

Let them who mak' the quarrel, be the ones to stand and fight"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who is to say what is just or unjust you and I are not aware of all the details.

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By *at2Couple
over a year ago

north Down

If you take the decision for going to war out of the hands of politicians and allow the people to vote on the matter you will find probably like Switzerland that you will never have to take part in one and this is from a country that has compulsory national service and the most privately owned gun ownership in Europe they have never been to or partook in any conflict .. Just a wee thought.

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