FabSwingers.com forum: Abstinence

By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

So Russell Brand says he will never vote and urges others not to. Do you vote? Is it important to? Do you have any right to have a political opinion if you don't engage in the political process?

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I vote and my wife votes as women died to get the vote.

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By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"I vote and my wife votes as women died to get the vote. "

That's how I feel. But also it took a long time for the ordinary person to get the vote and people lost lives during that struggle.

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By *dam_TinaCouple
over a year ago

Hampshire

I suppose the honest answer is that you don't have a right to a political opinion if you don't take part in the political process.

But then I'm a hypocrite, so my opinion is pretty worthless anyway.

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By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"I suppose the honest answer is that you don't have a right to a political opinion if you don't take part in the political process.

But then I'm a hypocrite, so my opinion is pretty worthless anyway."

However refusal to vote could be considered to be a political statement if done for political reasons.

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By *dam_TinaCouple
over a year ago

Hampshire

However refusal to vote could be considered to be a political statement if done for political reasons. "

Yup that's true. When I was first able to vote I voted liberal (they existed then) as a protest vote against the 2 main parties.

Power to the people !

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By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

However refusal to vote could be considered to be a political statement if done for political reasons.

Yup that's true. When I was first able to vote I voted liberal (they existed then) as a protest vote against the 2 main parties.

Power to the people !

But you did vote! My brother never votes. He just can't be arsed but has outspoken views about government policy. He's very upset if I say that his opinion counts for nothing if he can't be bothered to put an X on a piece of paper.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

How do you tell a protest non vote from an apathetic can't be arsed non vote?

I'd prefer us to have a none of the above option but whatever the result we'd still get the government.

Seriously, I find it difficult to handle the armchair critics that have never voted. It's not a universal right yet, it's taken real struggle in this country to get the vote for everyone. Democracy is a recent concept in the West and people are already taking it for granted.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"How do you tell a protest non vote from an apathetic can't be arsed non vote?

..........

A protest non vote spoils their ballot. Actually gets out of bed, goes to the Polling Station and spoils their balot.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

ballot.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"How do you tell a protest non vote from an apathetic can't be arsed non vote?

..........

A protest non vote spoils their ballot. Actually gets out of bed, goes to the Polling Station and spoils their balot."

I agree. The OP was suggesting not voting rather than ballot spoiling.

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By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"How do you tell a protest non vote from an apathetic can't be arsed non vote?

I'd prefer us to have a none of the above option but whatever the result we'd still get the government.

I wonder if we shouldn't have compulsory voting. I think they have that in Australia.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Everyone has the right to an opinion, that's why wars have been thought and people killed!

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By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"Everyone has the right to an opinion, that's why wars have been thought and people killed!"

True. However I stated that my brother's opinion counted for nothing not that he had no right to it.

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By *reelove1969Couple
over a year ago

bristol

My brother never votes. He just can't be arsed but has outspoken views about government policy. He's very upset if I say that his opinion counts for nothing if he can't be bothered to put an X on a piece of paper. "

are you sure that he cant be bothered ?...he may just choose not to vote

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

A Scots songwriter wrote about a Scots patriot.

Gerrard, Palmer, Skirving, Thomas Muir and Margarot

These are names that every Scottish man and woman ought to know

When you're called for jury service, when your name is drawn by lot

When you vote in an election when you freely voice your thought

Don't take these things for granted, for dearly were they bought

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How do you tell a protest non vote from an apathetic can't be arsed non vote?

I'd prefer us to have a none of the above option but whatever the result we'd still get the government.

I wonder if we shouldn't have compulsory voting. I think they have that in Australia. "

We live in a free country, so compulsory voting is wrong, in my opinion, however if benefits are cut and the govt, causes hardship to people, believe me they will be motivated to vote, if a candidate, says they will increase benefits, and make everyones life better, Its all about promises and having a charismatic leader.

Tony Blair was PM because he was more charismatic than the competition, and he promised a fairer Britain!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

However refusal to vote could be considered to be a political statement if done for political reasons.

Yup that's true. When I was first able to vote I voted liberal (they existed then) as a protest vote against the 2 main parties.

Power to the people !

Of course you have a right to a political opinion if you don't vote, lots of people don't vote in general elections (35%ish).

Doesn't mean they can't have an opinion.

A lot of people are disenfranchised with the main two parties which forever get into power as sure as day follows night follows day. So if they have something better to do with their personal lives on that day won't bother.

I'd like to see a few changes including compulsory voting, no moving perspective mp's around to safe seats to name a few but it won't happen as the main two parties have got it sewn up. They're not going to change a system that gaurentees they'll be in power with the next few elections, are they?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

In the UK, older folk are more likely to vote than younger folk. That's why political parties are more reluctant to upset oldies.

If younger folk deliberately don't vote, it just makes it easier to perpetuate this.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I vote, but to be frank, where I live you could get a donkey into Parliament, provided it wore a red rosette.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I Vote, but there is not much point as they are all lying scrum bags only out after them self.

But it is very important to vote. If we had a party that stuck to it word and people voted for them they be in power. Today it is blame game and ripping the tax payer off. If we did only paid min wage that would soon go up. And we get better class of people in the Job does a millionaire really need to clam for ill son I think not.

Get rid of the lot of them and let the Queen run the show she do a much better job of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I hav & always wil vote ( Conservative. ).

I hav " right of centre " opinions & views.

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By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

are you sure that he cant be bothered ?...he may just choose not to vote"

Yes I'm sure. He has been quite open about his apathy. That is a big problem in this country. His daughter likewise never votes. Last election she openly stated she 'couldn't be arsed'.

On the other hand, I have always voted as has my daughter. She just accepts it as what you do as I used to take her with me to the polling station.

So perhaps we need compulsory voting to tackle this.

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By *dam_TinaCouple
over a year ago

Hampshire

Get rid of the lot of them and let the Queen run the show she do a much better job of it.

That's a thought. An ill-judged and crazy one, but it's definitely a thought.

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By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"I Vote, but there is not much point as they are all lying scrum bags only out after them self.

Get rid of the lot of them and let the Queen run the show she do a much better job of it.

That didn't work out too well for ordinary people last time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes I do vote and yes it is important to vote as it can effect the results if you don't. I would advise anyone who does not want to vote to invalidate their vote as it is still counted as a used vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't vote, it doesn't matter who you do or don't vote for, the laws, taxes, benefits, healthcare, etc will be made as whoever is in power sees fit, Not what voters want!

I pay, Income Tax, council Tax, several lots of Road tax, VAT and National insurance! which is how the country is funded, So, I do have a right to a political opinion!

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By *ames blackMan
over a year ago

Middlesbrough

If a compulsory voting system was brought in, non-politically minded people would just put an X anywhere or follow their partner/relatives/friends etc.

So no assessment of the parties involved, just blind guesses. Save money & put the parties names in a hat & let the queen draw to see who leads the country.

I did not vote in the last election because I have not seen one person who is worth my time. There should be a 'none of the above' choice!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've only ever cast my vote once...and will never vote again while ALL parties and the government refuse to listen to us and continue to enslave and starve the entire nation....no thanks...I'll find my own way to make them HEAR my voice!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a general rule of thumb, anyone who sticks their hand up and states they want to be a MP or the PM should automatically be banned from the job.

Egotistical bunch of.... The lot of them.

Some sort of jury service type system to replace it???

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

It's possible that many are disillusioned with the voting system itself... PR might go some way to address that.

Apathy appears to rule, but maybe that's because politics in the UK today is much less polarised than in the past..political parties are perceived as much of a muchness.

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By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"I don't vote, it doesn't matter who you do or don't vote for, the laws, taxes, benefits, healthcare, etc will be made as whoever is in power sees fit, Not what voters want!

I pay, Income Tax, council Tax, several lots of Road tax, VAT and National insurance! which is how the country is funded, So, I do have a right to a political opinion!"

That's a fair point. How do you voice your political opinion so that it's heard?

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By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"As a general rule of thumb, anyone who sticks their hand up and states they want to be a MP or the PM should automatically be banned from the job.

Egotistical bunch of.... The lot of them.

Some sort of jury service type system to replace it???

Like the original democratic system of ancient Greece?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The same drug riddled bloke who advocates drugs being made legal dont make me laugh.

Fact he lives and works abroad in my view makes it inconsequental as to whether he votes. Rant over.

Now to actual question posed. Yes folk should vote in my opinion people struggled for years to even get a vote and moan about it. Beggars beliwf really when you look at china for example where there is no vote how folk are so blase about it puzzles me.

Yes ploitical parties need to engage folk more but as they are roughly the same i understand the apathy but does not make it right.

They all try to go for centre ground to a degree but ideas of centre ground vary example if tory its all about screwing those at lower end of spectrum if labour they try screw rich to a degree. As for libdems what can be said about the two faced lying twats. With labour and tory you know to an extent what they stand up for libdems do owt they think will keep em in power.

As for ukip good intentions but head in the clouds one policy one trick pony party.

So in essence yes folk have opinions but of not actually voted then no real right to complain about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I like to use my vote and then i can voice an opinion.

But...........

sometimes your between a rock and a hard place ,trying to choose someone you can hope does what they say , instead of just spouting crap in order to get elected.

As many if not all ,tend to do .

an "Honest politician" is as rare as rocking horse shit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If a compulsory voting system was brought in, non-politically minded people would just put an X anywhere or follow their partner/relatives/friends etc.

So no assessment of the parties involved, just blind guesses. Save money & put the parties names in a hat & let the queen draw to see who leads the country.

I did not vote in the last election because I have not seen one person who is worth my time. There should be a 'none of the above' choice!"

A lot of people follow the the lead of their parents, friends or relatives now though. Surely we wouldn't have the number of so called safe seats if they didn't.

We (as a nation) tend to vote for the party that tells the biggest and best lies in their manifesto, how many of those promises are carried through.

Referendum on Europe anyone?

Maybe if we vote them in next time as well...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a general rule of thumb, anyone who sticks their hand up and states they want to be a MP or the PM should automatically be banned from the job.

Egotistical bunch of.... The lot of them.

Some sort of jury service type system to replace it???

Like the original democratic system of ancient Greece? "

That's the only place I know of that has tried such a system, my historical knowledge of how well it worked is lacking, maybe I'll have to read up on it a bit

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By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"As a general rule of thumb, anyone who sticks their hand up and states they want to be a MP or the PM should automatically be banned from the job.

Egotistical bunch of.... The lot of them.

Some sort of jury service type system to replace it???

Like the original democratic system of ancient Greece?

That's the only place I know of that has tried such a system, my historical knowledge of how well it worked is lacking, maybe I'll have to read up on it a bit

There would have to be certain criteria of course. I would also be concerned at someone not knowledgeable enough to handle the economy, education or health just to mention a few ministries.

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By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"The same drug riddled bloke who advocates drugs being made legal dont make me laugh.

Fact he lives and works abroad in my view makes it inconsequental as to whether he votes. Rant over.

I only used him as a starting point for the thread.

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

"I like to use my vote and then i can voice an opinion.

But...........

sometimes your between a rock and a hard place ,trying to choose someone you can hope does what they say , instead of just spouting crap in order to get elected.

As many if not all ,tend to do .

an "Honest politician" is as rare as rocking horse shit

That's because the practice of 'democratic' politics is, and will remain, the art of compromise.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not sure if voting should be made compulsory. I don't know what that would achieve. At least now we know the party that wins an election are a true representative of the people who actually care enough to get up of their arses and do something.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a general rule of thumb, anyone who sticks their hand up and states they want to be a MP or the PM should automatically be banned from the job.

Egotistical bunch of.... The lot of them.

Some sort of jury service type system to replace it???

Like the original democratic system of ancient Greece?

That's the only place I know of that has tried such a system, my historical knowledge of how well it worked is lacking, maybe I'll have to read up on it a bit

There would have to be certain criteria of course. I would also be concerned at someone not knowledgeable enough to handle the economy, education or health just to mention a few ministries. "

Do our current ministers know much about the job they are taking on as ministers though? They get shifted around to various posts in reshuffles quite frequently. I get the impression they are given several options by the top civil servants and asked to choose what they like the most.

But yes there would have to be some form of knowledge in the tasks people were asked to undertake.

Running a country effectively is a fairly huge undertaking and whilst changing things it has to be considered the full ramifications of what those changes will bring about.

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By *B9 Queen OP Woman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"As a general rule of thumb, anyone who sticks their hand up and states they want to be a MP or the PM should automatically be banned from the job.

Egotistical bunch of.... The lot of them.

Some sort of jury service type system to replace it???

Like the original democratic system of ancient Greece?

That's the only place I know of that has tried such a system, my historical knowledge of how well it worked is lacking, maybe I'll have to read up on it a bit

There would have to be certain criteria of course. I would also be concerned at someone not knowledgeable enough to handle the economy, education or health just to mention a few ministries.

But yes there would have to be some form of knowledge in the tasks people were asked to undertake.

Running a country effectively is a fairly huge undertaking and whilst changing things it has to be considered the full ramifications of what those changes will bring about. "

I agree that many ministers seem clueless as to how to run their departments. But, if we then have to have specific criteria for ordinary people to be chosen then it stops being a 'democracy' in the ancient Greek sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

always attend a polling station, even if just to write 'none of the above' as sometimes there is no one that adequately represents me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The same drug riddled bloke who advocates drugs being made legal dont make me laugh."

Alcohol, nicotine, caffeine are drugs and legal and two of those do more damage and cost more then most illegal drugs combined.

The previous government sacked their expert drug advisor for telling the truth.

Most if not all countries that legalise drug use see a drop in the number of drug users.

Prohibition doesn't seem to be working. It just gives the serious criminal gangs control of a highly lucrative market.

Money which could be used much more effectively by any government in funding education and health to name but a few.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 31/10/13 12:34:15]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a general rule of thumb, anyone who sticks their hand up and states they want to be a MP or the PM should automatically be banned from the job.

Egotistical bunch of.... The lot of them.

Some sort of jury service type system to replace it???

Like the original democratic system of ancient Greece?

That's the only place I know of that has tried such a system, my historical knowledge of how well it worked is lacking, maybe I'll have to read up on it a bit

There would have to be certain criteria of course. I would also be concerned at someone not knowledgeable enough to handle the economy, education or health just to mention a few ministries.

But yes there would have to be some form of knowledge in the tasks people were asked to undertake.

Running a country effectively is a fairly huge undertaking and whilst changing things it has to be considered the full ramifications of what those changes will bring about.

I'll have to take your word for that, as I said I've not got a lot of knowledge on the Greek system.

It is reasonable to say though that the Ancient Greek system might need a bit of modernising

I can't say I'd want to trust any bankers with running the countries financial affairs...

It is as someone said about compromises as no matter what is done it is not going to be right for everyone all of the time. The ancient Greeks didn't have to contend with globalisation on the scale we have to in the modern age.

I don't envy the job of any politician or PM it seems it's much easier to get it all wrong than right.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I vote, but to be frank, where I live you could get a donkey into Parliament, provided it wore a red rosette.

The donkey would still be a better MP than any of the alternatives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The choice of candidates for the local members can be sometimes be quite crap so they end up choosing the best or the one who has talked up everyone's arse.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

The quality of our political representatives at all levels leaves much to be desired.

We probably didn't realise it for a long while but the televising of Westminster, Holyrood etc has been a real eye-opener.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The same drug riddled bloke who advocates drugs being made legal dont make me laugh.

Fact he lives and works abroad in my view makes it inconsequental as to whether he votes. Rant over.

Yes ploitical parties need to engage folk more but as they are roughly the same i understand the apathy but does not make it right.

As for ukip good intentions but head in the clouds one policy one trick pony party.

So in essence yes folk have opinions but of not actually voted then no real right to complain about it."

The Voting system is flawed, and they still DON'T listen to voters..???

I have EVERY right to complain while they use MY money for their OWN purpose!!

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