FabSwingers.com forum: Protecting Your Property

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So, we recently had Munir Hussein released from prison after chasing a burglar down the street and beating him senseless with a cricket bat.

Now we have Samuel Quamina being cleared of murder and GBH after stabbing an intruder to death in his home and seriously wounding another. Apparently the ordeal was over in 30 seconds. Prsumably if the thirty seconds began from the time the hapless intruders opened a window then Mr Quamina was waiting behind the curtain on the off chance someone broke in???

A few years back, Tony Martin was convicted and jailed after killing an intruder in his home. This was the beginning of an outpouring of public anger both for and against the rights of home owners.

As far as I know the intruders into Mr Quamina's home were unarmed so, how far should someone be allowed to go before "reasonable force" becomes unreasonable?

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By *aughty_kittyWoman
over a year ago

finger licking good

if ANYONE breaks into my home, i will do time for hurting them. Mine and my daughters safty are important, and i would not think twice about stabbin some mug breaking into our home

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

As much as it takes to make them get the feck out of my house....if they are still conscious that is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

From the days when burglars used ta run a mile if disturbed

To today when it could easily be a drug crazed yob looking for money for a fix

How the hell is anyone supposed ta think that fast?

I personally think that if you think you are under threat by anyone entering your property by force

Then you should be entitled to use ANY force to neutralize that threat

If the perpetrators dont like this idea then they should not break in simple xx

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By *im53Man
over a year ago

Boldon

acording to the bbc news the intruders were armed with a gun and a metal bar

and he was in the kitchen so picked up a carving knife,

I think the jury was right a knife against a gun is reasonable force, which is all ways the it should be judged,

battering some one with a cricket bat who is running down the road away from you was not reasonable as the threat was over , that was pure revenge

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Sadly I have to agree... once they are out of your house you should stop hitting them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Sadly I have to agree... once they are out of your house you should stop hitting them

Yes i sadly agree with that too lol pity though xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How am I supposed to determine which burglar has got a weapon and which hasn't after being rudely awakened at 3am?

Do I have 30 seconds to ask them politely:

"Will the burglar NOT carrying please leave the building. Thank you."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How am I supposed to determine which burglar has got a weapon and which hasn't after being rudely awakened at 3am?

Do I have 30 seconds to ask them politely:

"Will the burglar NOT carrying please leave the building. Thank you.""

if you drive your car without a licence or mot your insurance becomes invalid and you loose your rights to claim if theres an accident in the same vain if someone breaks the law by breaking into your home they too should loose their rights and should be prepared for the homeowner to do whatever is nessesary to defend thenselves and their family

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People should be able to use appropriate force against someone breaking into their own home. But there would have to be physical proof of forced entry.

What isn’t right is repeatedly beating a burglar, chasing one down the road and bearing them and using excessive force.

The best thing though is for courts to deal with each case on an individual basis as has been done with Mr Quamina and Munir Hussein. Tony Martin was a firearm offence and slightly difference as a boy died.

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By *im53Man
over a year ago

Boldon

People should be able to use appropriate force against someone breaking into their own home. But there would have to be physical proof of forced entry.

What isn’t right is repeatedly beating a burglar, chasing one down the road and bearing them and using excessive force.

yes Tony Martin shot the lad in the back as he was running away there was no threat there from the boy , again that was just revenge

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

we were living in florida when the tony martin case made news, a friend said i dont know what the fuss is allabout my mate in texas heard his car alarm going off, looked out of his 22 floor window with his hunting rifle and shot the guy trying to steel his car. he rang the police and told them, they came round and took away the body and he had to appear in court to tell his side of the story, and that was it

who said yanks were stupid?

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By *ignbouncybabeWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

I've been burgled and if any fecker wants to take a chance on breaking in again and I'm there Ive got an iron pole and I know how to use it

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

When my mother was burgled all the robbers took was some money, they didnt make a mess of the house or anything what they had done though was take one of my mothers knives out and it was on the window sill we suppose in case they where disturbed.

I truelly believe noone knows how they would react until they face a robbery, i for one dont know.

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

Have to admit to being damn lucky, the area I have lived in for thirteen years has not had a single burglary in that time.

It must be terrible to be the victims of a burglary, and I can honestly say I don't know what my immerdiate reaction would be to finding a burglar in my house.

Fear triggers extreme change in many people and that must one reason for householders attacking intruders.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I've always been of the belief that anyone breaking into your house in the dead of night doesn't want to disturb the household. So of the opinion that if you are disturbed by them, and then make a hell of a lot of noise they're likely to run.

Have always lived in the middle of nowhere so to make it worth their while any burglar would need a lorry and have the time to make it a day trip, so far have been lucky.

I do have the gun cabinet close at hand, but until the day arrives when I am burgled, I don't know how I'll react.

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By *ignbouncybabeWoman
over a year ago

birmingham

Before I was burgled I always thought I'd try and hide under the bed if I heard intruders but after my house was trashed and everything they could carry taken I changed my mind and I'm sure I'd attack them my Son let himself in with my emergency key some time ago in the early hours and I came flying down stairs wielding me pole like a fat ninja and scared the hell out of him

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

what about when someone takes your intelectual property??? should ya twat em one then ?

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By *evadomCouple
over a year ago

birmingham

The Tony Martin case was complicated it had been going on for ages with several reports going to the Police who were unable to help(he lived in isolation)

What he did was a bit extream but he had been pushed beyond his limit, if you break into some ones house to steal you should loose all your rights, thats the chance you take!

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By *woBiTwoCouple
over a year ago

north manchester

I think the general trend of recent court cases is generally sympathetic towards the home-owner (rightly so in my book)although Tony Martin was an early exception (but it is kinda hard to claim credible self defence when you shoot a fleeing person in the back)

The DPP states that it is better to allow a jury to decide these cases rather than dismiss them out of hand, and I tend to agree.. juries are still generally representative of normal homeowners and hopefully common sense will prevail most of the time.

What would I do? Well, if they get past the dog, and the kids, I'll hide under the duvet and set Mrs 2Bi on them! :D

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

What he did was a bit extream but he had been pushed beyond his limit, if you break into some ones house to steal you should loose all your rights, thats the chance you take!"

I'm afraid I can’t agree with that, Tony Martin did not do something that was a bit extreme, he committed murder.

In my opinion when you quote Tony Martin as an example you need to remember that the police had removed his legal shotguns and he had been banned from holding firearms, so he obtained and used an illegal weapon to shoot dead the person that had been caught in the mantrap that he had turned his stairs into. He had made his house look derelict and uninhabited and had boasted that he would kill the next person to enter his house. Then he shot the other person in the back as he was running away, that was not self defence, it was premeditated murder. Nothing more or less.

I would hope that the reason that most people have so much sympathy for Tony Martin is because the have been guided in their opinions by tabloid papers who were pushing their own private agendas and never checked to find out the facts of the case.

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

"I came flying down stairs wielding me pole like a fat ninja and scared the hell out of him"

That made me laugh

If a burgular broke into our home while we were there,I believe we have the right to do what it takes to protect our family and would use whatever force neccessary to remove the risk..............or until the big stick broke

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By *adja_lazloCouple
over a year ago

Solihull

any force has to be "reasonable in the circumstance", saying that, throw down a knife from your kitchen draw, theres your defence, reasonable!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if ANYONE breaks into my home, i will do time for hurting them. Mine and my daughters safty are important, and i would not think twice about stabbin some mug breaking into our home"

Well said Kitty we'd do exactly the same here, we probably like yourself have worked hard for what we've got and will be fooked if some fecker is just gonna walk in an take anything or harm our kids! No chance!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When my mother was burgled all the robbers took was some money, they didnt make a mess of the house or anything what they had done though was take one of my mothers knives out and it was on the window sill we suppose in case they where disturbed.

I truelly believe noone knows how they would react until they face a robbery, i for one dont know."

Last september we came back home after visiting my mum to find the door locked from the inside. Managed to get into the house via the garage and as we entered the buggers were escaping out the kitchen door. They completely ransacked our bedroom and did quite a bit of damage and stole a whole load of things but the thing that worried us was that they also had my knives out in case they were disturbed. Some of the things they took had great sentimental value which can never be replaced. Dont think we would think twice about defending our property if we ever caught anyone in the house again.

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By *aughty_kittyWoman
over a year ago

finger licking good

I truelly believe noone knows how they would react until they face a robbery, i for one dont know.

fucking dildos they are eh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Isn't it a clear signal to everyone to go out and invest in a decent alarm system. It won't stop everyone but it must be a big deterrent.

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By *ebzStarWoman
over a year ago

Notting

1st time i was burgled i as not in the house as was house sitting someone elses house.

But we quickly found out who did it and i know i would defo have been stabbed

They came and attacked a group in the pub with knives and baseball bats where 1 person died and 2 badly injured.

The 3rd time i was burgeled i was in my pit and awoke at 4.24am - thought i had a bad dream then realised there were 2 men in my house.

Had only come out of surgery the day before and couldt reach to shut the little window

I was initially SO angry and think if i could have moved i really would have ranted and raged. As it was i couldnt move and no way would have defended myself my anger very quickly turned into fear - and just thought - please take what ya want and piss off. Just dont touch me.

When i pretended to wake up and call a friend they soon disappeared. The police told me that most burglers are chancers and would rather run off than have a physical confrontation hence creeping about in the night.

So i can understand anyone defending their home, even if the person is running away cos the anger would take more than 30 seconds to clear.

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By *lutandhubbyCouple
over a year ago

west midlands

the way i look at it. if you where allowed to kill a burgular then there wouldnt be anymore burgulars. they would think twice about breaking in to your property

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Isn't it a clear signal to everyone to go out and invest in a decent alarm system. It won't stop everyone but it must be a big deterrent."

I do agree that people should have alarms as they can help lower your insurance premiums. However they will not deter burglers.

I was on a bus and overheard a group of what looked like thugs, talking. one of the things they were doing was taking note of addresses with alarms cos "they must have stuff worth nicking"

I will stick to having not much to swipe and beware if you do cos hubbys tools are down the side of the bed, and I can do lots of damage with the carpet pusher thingy.

Shona

x x x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What he did was a bit extream but he had been pushed beyond his limit, if you break into some ones house to steal you should loose all your rights, thats the chance you take!

I'm afraid I can’t agree with that, Tony Martin did not do something that was a bit extreme, he committed murder.

The biggest mistake Tony Martin made was not shooting both of them,getting them under concrete and building a shed on it!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We’ve got insurance to protect our property, and a nice dog, have no interest in risking our life to protect things that are easily replaceable, we’re sure our kids would rather have to do without the TV for a few days rather than do without their parents for a few years, protecting the family is a whole different matter though

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

The biggest mistake Tony Martin made was not shooting both of them,getting them under concrete and building a shed on it!"

So that's the kids that killed Jamie Bulgar and the two gypsy burglars....do you want to add to this list of people you would shoot?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I could not agree MORE!

The fact is they took a risk breaking in, they should of thought about the risk of serious consequences.

Do people actually think that a disturbed intruder willing for confrontation will think about 'reasonable force'? Why should people, in there own home think about using reasonable force? You use any means to defend yourself, unfortunately the little scrote who broke into his home had to learn the hard way, unlucky.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's very easy to say what we think we'd do if faced by an intruder at silly O'Clock in the morning, but in reality, you've probably been awoken from a deep sleep and if you sleep as I do, you'll be bollock naked and maybe even half pissed depending upon what night it is.

From hearing the window being forced, to waking up, getting some clothes on, because lets face it, you'd feel even more vulnerable naked, then deciding what to do whilst still half asleep / pissed .........

Cannot even begin to imagine how I'd react really.

If they entered via the kitchen though, the 2 dogs would give them a lovely warm welcome

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The biggest mistake Tony Martin made was not shooting both of them,getting them under concrete and building a shed on it!

So that's the kids that killed Jamie Bulgar and the two gypsy burglars....do you want to add to this list of people you would shoot?"

I may be the only person on here who is sick and tired of watching our society sink deeper and deeper into the quagmire of scum that are taking over it,if so I make no apologies for my views.

Just as society may have made them what they are,then that same society has made me zero tollerant.

If anyone breaks into our house and I get the drop on them,tough.

I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The biggest mistake Tony Martin made was not shooting both of them,getting them under concrete and building a shed on it!

So that's the kids that killed Jamie Bulgar and the two gypsy burglars....do you want to add to this list of people you would shoot?

I may be the only person on here who is sick and tired of watching our society sink deeper and deeper into the quagmire of scum that are taking over it,if so I make no apologies for my views.

Just as society may have made them what they are,then that same society has made me zero tollerant.

If anyone breaks into our house and I get the drop on them,tough.

I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6!"

Don’t think you’re the only person who feels that way, however, if we could use any force necessary, then we’d just end up like America, the difference being the burglars would kill your family first, before robbing your home.

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

True....it just snowballs, give people the right to kill an intruder then the burglar will come equipped to stop the householder doing just that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

True....it just snowballs, give people the right to kill an intruder then the burglar will come equipped to stop the householder doing just that.

Without changing the law to give householders the right to kill there has been a softening of attitude to people who find themselves in that situation. So long as you don't chase them down the road, picking them off with an AK47, the law is quite prepared to listen to your version of events sympathetically.

In the case of Tony Martin, he shot Fred Barratt in the back as he was leaving and then compounded that by hiding in a pub 4 miles away for a few hours. He criminalised his actions with his inaction to report the incident.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

I thought there was someone in the house once. There was a bump and squeak which had woke me up. I have quite a squeaky house… and like it that way… no fecker is creeping around my house in silence. So anyway, I really did believe there could be someone down stairs because of this noise. So I, knowing how to get from my bedroom to the top of the stairs without making any noise (I know which bits of the landing squeak)… I reached for the baseball bat and waited at the top of the stairs. As far as I was concerned the first thing (hopefully a head) to come around the corner was gonna get a full power 270 degree swing. A minute or two passed and there were no further noises so I went back to bed. It was only in the morning that I wondered why I hadn’t picked up the phone (just in case)

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

True....it just snowballs, give people the right to kill an intruder then the burglar will come equipped to stop the householder doing just that.

I dunno… the county in the USA with the lowest burglary rate is the county which has made it the law that ALL households MUST have a gun.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

True....it just snowballs, give people the right to kill an intruder then the burglar will come equipped to stop the householder doing just that.

I dunno… the county in the USA with the lowest burglary rate is the county which has made it the law that ALL households MUST have a gun."

A gun would be a deterrent but how many accidental shootings did that county have?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I thought there was someone in the house once. There was a bump and squeak which had woke me up. I have quite a squeaky house… and like it that way… no fecker is creeping around my house in silence. So anyway, I really did believe there could be someone down stairs because of this noise. So I, knowing how to get from my bedroom to the top of the stairs without making any noise (I know which bits of the landing squeak)… I reached for the baseball bat and waited at the top of the stairs. As far as I was concerned the first thing (hopefully a head) to come around the corner was gonna get a full power 270 degree swing. A minute or two passed and there were no further noises so I went back to bed. It was only in the morning that I wondered why I hadn’t picked up the phone (just in case)

Which could inflict the greater damage the quickest. Fear made you reach for the bat and not the phone.

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

Trouble is that if every household in the UK were made to keep a gun for protection our instances of gun crime would spiral out of control.

Take Mr Jones, he keeps a handgun in the house because he is told he has to by law....then he has a row with a guy in the pub over a spilt glass of lager, it gets out of control and after getting a good slap Mr Jones storms off home and comes back to the pub with his regulation handgun......

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

True....it just snowballs, give people the right to kill an intruder then the burglar will come equipped to stop the householder doing just that.

I dunno… the county in the USA with the lowest burglary rate is the county which has made it the law that ALL households MUST have a gun.

A gun would be a deterrent but how many accidental shootings did that county have?"

Oddly (or may be not) they have a really low gun crime rate too.

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

True....it just snowballs, give people the right to kill an intruder then the burglar will come equipped to stop the householder doing just that.

I dunno… the county in the USA with the lowest burglary rate is the county which has made it the law that ALL households MUST have a gun.

A gun would be a deterrent but how many accidental shootings did that county have?

Oddly (or may be not) they have a really low gun crime rate too."

But I hazard a guess....still much higher a rate than the UK

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"Trouble is that if every household in the UK were made to keep a gun for protection our instances of gun crime would spiral out of control.

I doubt it would work in inner cities where every gang expects to get shot at. But in more rural areas it does tend to indicate people thing a lot longer and harder before picking a fight/committing a crime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

True....it just snowballs, give people the right to kill an intruder then the burglar will come equipped to stop the householder doing just that.

I dunno… the county in the USA with the lowest burglary rate is the county which has made it the law that ALL households MUST have a gun.

A gun would be a deterrent but how many accidental shootings did that county have?

Oddly (or may be not) they have a really low gun crime rate too."

Well i am moving over there then! I am not surprised though as many mid west states are well run and kids still have respect for their elders.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

True....it just snowballs, give people the right to kill an intruder then the burglar will come equipped to stop the householder doing just that.

I dunno… the county in the USA with the lowest burglary rate is the county which has made it the law that ALL households MUST have a gun.

A gun would be a deterrent but how many accidental shootings did that county have?

Oddly (or may be not) they have a really low gun crime rate too.

But I hazard a guess....still much higher a rate than the UK"

I'm racking my brains to think of the name of the county... it was a while back I read about it. But if you compared it to London or Nottingham... I am sure it was lower.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

Id give a shouted warning, then take my chances with whatever comes to hand.... funnily enough I have a baseball bat in the upstairs cupboard, guess my son must have left it there!!

If anyone wants to take a chance on 15 stone of baseball bat wielding fury, then thats up to them, just dont say I didnt warn them!!

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Which could inflict the greater damage the quickest. Fear made you reach for the bat and not the phone."

Oh I know it was auto-pilot self defence kicking in and even though I felt really calm I know the adrenaline was pumping. It is just funny (well it is now) how picking up the phone didn’t even cross my mind and I wasn’t even prepared to shout a warning to may be scare them off. The only warning I intended giving would have been the brief whoosh of air as the end of the bat approached their head at 40pmh.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

True....it just snowballs, give people the right to kill an intruder then the burglar will come equipped to stop the householder doing just that.

I dunno… the county in the USA with the lowest burglary rate is the county which has made it the law that ALL households MUST have a gun.

A gun would be a deterrent but how many accidental shootings did that county have?

Oddly (or may be not) they have a really low gun crime rate too.

But I hazard a guess....still much higher a rate than the UK

I'm racking my brains to think of the name of the county... it was a while back I read about it. But if you compared it to London or Nottingham... I am sure it was lower."

In that particulat county, you can carry a weapon, so long as it is visible, funnily enought they have a very low mugging rate too!!

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

[Removed by poster at 03/03/10 20:05:28]

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

True....it just snowballs, give people the right to kill an intruder then the burglar will come equipped to stop the householder doing just that.

I dunno… the county in the USA with the lowest burglary rate is the county which has made it the law that ALL households MUST have a gun."

But doesn't this county/town also have one of the highest rates of accidental shootings and domestic shootings though?

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

True....it just snowballs, give people the right to kill an intruder then the burglar will come equipped to stop the householder doing just that.

I dunno… the county in the USA with the lowest burglary rate is the county which has made it the law that ALL households MUST have a gun.

But doesn't this county/town also have one of the highest rates of accidental shootings and domestic shootings though?"

I 'think' only accidental shooting - that is people shooting themself (usually whilst cleaning their gun).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i agree that if you are under threat in your own home then use whatever force is neccesary to protect your family and property but in the hussein case he chased a burgurler down the street then beat him sensless hussein was therefore not under threat and was as wrong as the intruder. tony martin shot a kid in the back with an illeagle gun so as the intruder was a at the bottom of the stairs tony martin was at the top and the intruder had his back towards tony martin he again was hardly under threat and there fore as bad as the intruder the other guy was in his kiten confronted by armed intruders and was under threat so therefore used reasonable force . just my opinion and not meant to offend

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't get me wrong,just because I'm on Tony Martins side,doesn't mean I'm in favour of common ownership of guns in G.B.

However,anything else that comes readily to hand is fair play as far as I'm concerned.

I have something I can lay my hands on in most rooms in our house,known only to myself.

Big NO to guns though......especially knowing what a nutter I'd be (and have been) with one.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS
over a year ago

rochdale

One of my hobbies is medieval re-enactment, to this end i have a house stuffed full of weapons & i used to say that any one who broke into my house would face the consequences.

However, as a previous poster has pointed out we are usually asleep & the intruder is running on an adrenaline high. The chances are that our weapons will be used against us rather than help us.

Nowadays i keep the weapons secure, although i do keep a war-axe by the bed!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One of my hobbies is medieval re-enactment, to this end i have a house stuffed full of weapons & i used to say that any one who broke into my house would face the consequences.

However, as a previous poster has pointed out we are usually asleep & the intruder is running on an adrenaline high. The chances are that our weapons will be used against us rather than help us.

Nowadays i keep the weapons secure, although i do keep a war-axe by the bed!

Kinky bugger!

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

"Don't get me wrong,just because I'm on Tony Martins side,doesn't mean I'm in favour of common ownership of guns in G.B.

However,anything else that comes readily to hand is fair play as far as I'm concerned.

I have something I can lay my hands on in most rooms in our house,known only to myself.

Big NO to guns though......especially knowing what a nutter I'd be (and have been) with one.

How nice to know we have a member who has been a 'nutter' with a gun in his past amongst us......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We should go live in South Africa.Friends tell me you can shoot the buggers so long as before you call the police you drag them back in the house.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Don't get me wrong,just because I'm on Tony Martins side,doesn't mean I'm in favour of common ownership of guns in G.B.

However,anything else that comes readily to hand is fair play as far as I'm concerned.

I have something I can lay my hands on in most rooms in our house,known only to myself.

Big NO to guns though......especially knowing what a nutter I'd be (and have been) with one.

How nice to know we have a member who has been a 'nutter' with a gun in his past amongst us......"

Wondered how long that'd take,quite predictable really.

There are probably a lot worse,though less honest,amongst us too.

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By *atureFem4FunWoman
over a year ago

Petts Wood

"Don't get me wrong,just because I'm on Tony Martins side,doesn't mean I'm in favour of common ownership of guns in G.B.

However,anything else that comes readily to hand is fair play as far as I'm concerned.

I have something I can lay my hands on in most rooms in our house,known only to myself.

Big NO to guns though......especially knowing what a nutter I'd be (and have been) with one.

How nice to know we have a member who has been a 'nutter' with a gun in his past amongst us......

Wondered how long that'd take,quite predictable really.

There are probably a lot worse,though less honest,amongst us too."

You obviously said it for effect if you were eagerly awaiting a response...maybe you thought it would impress other members?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Don't get me wrong,just because I'm on Tony Martins side,doesn't mean I'm in favour of common ownership of guns in G.B.

However,anything else that comes readily to hand is fair play as far as I'm concerned.

I have something I can lay my hands on in most rooms in our house,known only to myself.

Big NO to guns though......especially knowing what a nutter I'd be (and have been) with one.

How nice to know we have a member who has been a 'nutter' with a gun in his past amongst us......

Wondered how long that'd take,quite predictable really.

There are probably a lot worse,though less honest,amongst us too.

You obviously said it for effect if you were eagerly awaiting a response...maybe you thought it would impress other members?"

I wasn't eagerly awaiting one but in retrospect I suppose it was inevitable.

Nor was it designed to impress,I'm not into those games.

It was merely talking from experience of years gone by!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Hi all just caught up with the posts since this afternoon and it seems to me that there are a lot of very angry people here who think that the best way to reduce burglary and violence is to use violence and deadly force. The justification for this being that the law is too weak when dealing with criminals so they need to defend themselves and their property.

Now it seems to me that this is not a very good argument. Every time a householder does violence on a burglar it makes it more lightly that other burglars will carry weapons to defend themselves, every time a burglar with a weapon is confronted by a householder there is a high probability of the weapon being used.

Also every time a householder uses the weapon they keep under the pillow, by their bed/front door or wherever and does not get jailed for it, they weaken the law. Then when a burglar kills or injures a householder they claim it was an accident and all they were doing was protecting themselves from an attack by the householder (like Tony Martin) so they get charged with manslaughter rather than murder. The law is further weakened.

Maybe rather than looking for ways to justify weakening the law while hiding behind our doors in fear of violence we should be rebuilding our communities and helping the police solve crime.

Just a thought.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"Hi all just caught up with the posts since this afternoon and it seems to me that there are a lot of very angry people here who think that the best way to reduce burglary and violence is to use violence and deadly force. The justification for this being that the law is too weak when dealing with criminals so they need to defend themselves and their property.

My personal justification is... the law arrives too feckin late to defend me and my property.... the most important being me.

What good will it do me if they get a long time in stir if I'm dead?

Most thugs who break into houses carry some form of weapon anyway (or head for you kitchen to pick up a knife out of your knife rack... or why else would the police advise you not to have a knife rack).... may be just a few would think a little harder if they knew the householder had the right to beat the crap out of them with their weapon of choice without fear of having to pay compensation for personal injuries.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My personal justification is... the law arrives too feckin late to defend me and my property.... the most important being me.

What good will it do me if they get a long time in stir if I'm dead?

Yep........would rather face a judge than a doctor.......if I was lucky enough to still be alive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if ANYONE breaks into my home, i will do time for hurting them. Mine and my daughters safty are important, and i would not think twice about stabbin some mug breaking into our home"

I totaly aggree. You don`t know if a burglar is tooled up or not.I will not wait to find out. Strike first I say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My personal justification is... the law arrives too feckin late to defend me and my property.... the most important being me.

What good will it do me if they get a long time in stir if I'm dead?

If you do beat the crap out of them can they claim compensation?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

*** hypothetical situation ***

IF a burglar " lost " in the argument with a baseball bat, then fell out of an upstairs window, how many of his injuries would be able to be proved not to have happened when he " fell " off the outside of a house while trying to break in ?

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

My personal justification is... the law arrives too feckin late to defend me and my property.... the most important being me.

What good will it do me if they get a long time in stir if I'm dead?

If you do beat the crap out of them can they claim compensation?"

Yep.

There's also the classic case of one claiming compensation for falling through a skylight (whilst trying to break in through it) and injuring himself on whatever it was he landed on.

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

Well all I can say to all of you potential vigilantes is that I am an ex commando, I have 3 tours of NI in the late70’s early 80’s + the Falklands as direct experience of violence and death so I think I have some knowledge of what it does to people.

And here is a little news for you all killing is easy, living with it is the hard bit, and when you use extreme violence the trauma effects everyone involved, so while you plan to face a judge and do time for the hurt you do to the intruders also plan how you will handle your relationship falling apart and how you will explain to your children/grandchildren why you will no longer be around and why mummy/granny is scared of you and why you are so angry all the time.

Now before you rush for the keyboard to tell me how wrong I am, reread the posts and see the anger there, then ask yourself if the thought of violence makes you this angry how angry will you be if you ever actually do something that violent?

Then if you are still not convinced do some research on the number of Falkland’s veterans who have committed suicide or have died through misadventure. Then remember that we were all conditioned to cope with violent stress.

Hopefully you will all maybe rethink your mindset, as if you plan to react in a certain way you are more lightly to follow that plan and the simple truth is the householder and their family usually come off worse if violence is offered. That is why the police advise that you offer no resistance, stay calm, speak slowly in a low voice, co-operate and defuse the situation while noting height, build, footwear, jewellery and other distinguishing marks.

Again just my thoughts and police advice.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

My dad was a Royal Marine and saw plenty of active service… was not a violent man in normal life, never lifted his hand to my mum and (as I do) condemned the carrying of weapons in the street… he also shared the view… break into my house and I will defend my safety. By breaking into my house they have more than implied they do not intend to comply with the law, they are a threat to my safety and I am not about to try to talk calmly to assess their further intentions. Look at some of the elderly people beaten to within an inch of their life or in the worst cases an inch past… thugs with no respect for life tooled up to break into what they knew was an elderly defenceless person’s home. Do you really think they are going stand around and have a chat with you then say “sorry mate, we’ll be off now”.

I have experienced a number of things in my life… some I will share on this forum and some I won’t. I am quite comfortable in my own mine that I will not regret defending myself… whatever the outcome.

You may choose one route… I shall choose the one I feel best for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i have to say im lucky i live in a very low crime area but i do have a very large baseball bat called cyril who is kept under the bed ( bet thats cut my chances of meetin by half lol)!

the reason i have it its me and kiddo in the house and if some junked up clown is gonna try and break in here and attempt to steal what little iv got im sure as shit goin to make sure i get him/her a dull one first and yes i will claim self defence! i dont have any jewels or fancy tvs or that but the little i have i have worked damn hard for and will defend me and mine xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't understand how someone can defend what the government deem to be their property,land, etc without question, while serving with H.M forces,using whatever violence necessary.

However,when it comes to defending what is directly theirs, family,home and all within,they can find all sorts of reasons not to.

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