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middle class benefit fraud

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The poor claim benefits the rich receive them! So 160,000 over 50k earners have failed to fill in the assessment forms re child benefit. Yet the government are saying it's ok, do it by Jan 31st and you won't be penalised. So its ok for the rich to commit benefit fraud but everyone else is scrounging scum?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The poor claim benefits the rich receive them! So 160,000 over 50k earners have failed to fill in the assessment forms re child benefit. Yet the government are saying it's ok, do it by Jan 31st and you won't be penalised. So its ok for the rich to commit benefit fraud but everyone else is scrounging scum? "

We live in a biased society that will always favour the rich. Its shit.

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By *reelove1969Couple
over a year ago

bristol

not seen the news ...which MP said it was OK ..i was of the understanding that they have been issued with £100 penalties ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How are they commiting fraud?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

From what I have read in the news. They are being fined from 10%-100% of their claim, I wouldn't really call it fraud, as it was something that they were entitled to.

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By *wingerdelightCouple
over a year ago

eastliegh

How is that fraud???

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"How is that fraud???"

Claiming benefits to which you're not entitled is fraud.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The poor claim benefits the rich receive them! So 160,000 over 50k earners have failed to fill in the assessment forms re child benefit. Yet the government are saying it's ok, do it by Jan 31st and you won't be penalised. So its ok for the rich to commit benefit fraud but everyone else is scrounging scum? "

Earning 50k does not make you rich.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Failing to send back your forms on time isn't fraud.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

Envy isn't pretty. £50k is not rich!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"The poor claim benefits the rich receive them! So 160,000 over 50k earners have failed to fill in the assessment forms re child benefit. Yet the government are saying it's ok, do it by Jan 31st and you won't be penalised. So its ok for the rich to commit benefit fraud but everyone else is scrounging scum?

Earning 50k does not make you rich. "

Doesn't make you poor either.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

50 k would make me rich !

Im not jealous thou as im happy with my life

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By *atasha_DavidCouple
over a year ago

Slough


"How is that fraud???

Claiming benefits to which you're not entitled is fraud."

Only if it is provable that you knowingly did so. Since the chancellor is happy to give away Billions in sweetheart deals with corporations he is hardly in a position to preach to ordinary people

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Its fraud as they are claiming for a benefit they are not entitled to. If anyone else did that it would be a crime. Yet here the gov are saying do form by Jan 31st and gives will be waived. So yes they are getting few months free fraudulently

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham


"Its fraud as they are claiming for a benefit they are not entitled to. If anyone else did that it would be a crime. Yet here the gov are saying do form by Jan 31st and gives will be waived. So yes they are getting few months free fraudulently "
Think you have completely got this wrong.They will be "fined" if they claim.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Its fraud as they are claiming for a benefit they are not entitled to. If anyone else did that it would be a crime. Yet here the gov are saying do form by Jan 31st and gives will be waived. So yes they are getting few months free fraudulently

Think you have completely got this wrong.They will be "fined" if they claim."

I thought they were getting the money already. What they're being told to do is admit they're not entitled to it.

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By *ilmisseCouple
over a year ago

leicestershire


"Its fraud as they are claiming for a benefit they are not entitled to. If anyone else did that it would be a crime. Yet here the gov are saying do form by Jan 31st and gives will be waived. So yes they are getting few months free fraudulently "

As it is a completely new rule, its perfectly acceptable to give them extra time, i see nothing wrong with it.

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By *wingerdelightCouple
over a year ago

eastliegh

Blimey fab is turning into the daily mail

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Actually Jan 31st is the last day you can get your self assessment tax forms in. This is where you would tell the tax office how much you earn and what you have claimed. Been that way for years so not news. And as someone has said, 50K for a family is not a lot thee days.

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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

Sorry I think you have this all blown out of proportion! To justify your own views not the true reality! And not quite the same as what you are trying to claim, just my opinion of course

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By *corpiomanMan
over a year ago

harrogate

Cocky312, you hav a lot to learn.

Benefit fraud can only be committed by the poor, when you are rich of middle class, it comes under "not filling in forms right" ect ect. So therefore it is not benefit fruad.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

I was under the impression that it (child benefit) was paid automatically regardless of income.That seems to have been the case for a long time.Now the people earning over a certain amount will not be entitled to that benefit. of money. Makes sense to me. Should Blair/Cameron and wealthy people receive cash they don't need? It was originally intended to make sure lower income families got money to feed and clothe their children. can't see how taking that money back from wealthy people is wrong.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham


"Cocky312, you hav a lot to learn.

Benefit fraud can only be committed by the poor, when you are rich of middle class, it comes under "not filling in forms right" ect ect. So therefore it is not benefit fruad.

"
Where did you gat that little gem of knowledge from? Do you work for the Govt and have actual knowledge of this re child benefit claims?

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling


"Blimey fab is turning into the daily mail"

You aren't far of the mark there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Cocky312, you hav a lot to learn.

Benefit fraud can only be committed by the poor, when you are rich of middle class, it comes under "not filling in forms right" ect ect. So therefore it is not benefit fruad.

"

Someone local claimed £92,000 in benefits she wasn't entitled to and got sent down precisely because she was living the high life and not scraping a living! Holidays in dubai and florida, bmw convertible and a chalet in Abersoch were just some of the things she paid for! So it's not just the poorer people who get punished!

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I am confused, probably because we don't get child benefit so it doesn't apply....but isn't it declared on your tax return which 31January is the latest you can file it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Another example, amongst many, as to how fucking stupid and pointless modern politics has become since the PPP graduates took over ( all parties.)

Why?

Couple A earn £44k* each, they can keep the child benefit.

Couple B earn £60k and £28k. Yet they cannot keep the benefit.

Further still, because of the Data Protection Act and seperate Taxation, the Tax Office cannot use Couple B tax affairs to determine the matter. Hence why total family income couldn't be used.

Can't see how anyone is gonna be prosecuted for fraud.

The onus appears to be solely on the higher rate tax payer to disown the benefit.

* Give or take current tax bands and allowances.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is a tough one because the middle classes - if you remember - were recently divided in a new study because half of them had dropped off into poverty.

All those spending cuts didnt just affect the people already clinging onto life by the skin of their teeth.

However fraud is everywhere and always will be. Afford a great lawyer and you'll find a loophole for almost every criminal charge there is

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham


"

Another example, amongst many, as to how fucking stupid and pointless modern politics has become since the PPP graduates took over ( all parties.)

Why?

Couple A earn £44k* each, they can keep the child benefit.

Couple B earn £60k and £28k. Yet they cannot keep the benefit.

Further still, because of the Data Protection Act and seperate Taxation, the Tax Office cannot use Couple B tax affairs to determine the matter. Hence why total family income couldn't be used.

Can't see how anyone is gonna be prosecuted for fraud.

The onus appears to be solely on the higher rate tax payer to disown the benefit.

* Give or take current tax bands and allowances. "
Wouldn't it be better to stop giving it automatically and make people apply for it depending on financial circumstances? So those in need get it and those who earn lots of cash don't.That way only those in need would receive it.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Ok just read what it is about....they will lose their Family allowance or a portion of it if they don't register....how is that benefit fraud ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

31st January is legally the last date to file a Tax Return, without penalty.

Only then do people confirm they are higher tax payers so no longer eligible for the benefit.

That said, that income was for the year ending 5th April previously, so i'm not actually sure when they became non-eligible.

Not everyone is consistently a higher rate tax payer each and every year.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"T

Afford a great lawyer and you'll find a loophole for almost every criminal charge there is"

Usual disclaimer applies : Do NOT try this at home.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok just read what it is about....they will lose their Family allowance or a portion of it if they don't register....how is that benefit fraud ? "

The matter relies on people who are higher rate taxpayers to act promptly and HONESTLY to disclose the same and disown the benefit.

Not doing so, in full knowledge of the facts, and doing so dishonestly, may well fall within the Fraud Act 2006.

Especially more so after 31 January.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

If they have been overpaid I am sure they will be made to pay it back, whatever the deadline

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Ok just read what it is about....they will lose their Family allowance or a portion of it if they don't register....how is that benefit fraud ? "

Because they're continuing to claim it after they know they're no longer entitled to.

It's not as if it's been HMRC's best kept secret.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"Ok just read what it is about....they will lose their Family allowance or a portion of it if they don't register....how is that benefit fraud ?

Because they're continuing to claim it after they know they're no longer entitled to.

It's not as if it's been HMRC's best kept secret."

When do they stop being entitled?

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By *rXtraMan
over a year ago

Milton Keynes

Earning 50k doesn't make you rich! And you'll probably find that the reason their forms havn't been filled in and returned is because they are too busy working every hour god sends to earn that 50k!! That 50k which a large amount of is taxed, tax that pays for benefit scroungers!!!!!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Ok just read what it is about....they will lose their Family allowance or a portion of it if they don't register....how is that benefit fraud ?

Because they're continuing to claim it after they know they're no longer entitled to.

It's not as if it's been HMRC's best kept secret.

When do they stop being entitled? "

Last Saturday?

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By *icoupleforfunz27Couple
over a year ago

liverpool


"Earning 50k doesn't make you rich! And you'll probably find that the reason their forms havn't been filled in and returned is because they are too busy working every hour god sends to earn that 50k!! That 50k which a large amount of is taxed, tax that pays for benefit scroungers!!!!!"

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Wow, thats a lot of fraud going on eh

I thought you meant they have been fiddling it for months

So it seems they have until the January deadline now, and I am sure they will have to pay back any overpayment

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham


"Ok just read what it is about....they will lose their Family allowance or a portion of it if they don't register....how is that benefit fraud ?

Because they're continuing to claim it after they know they're no longer entitled to.

It's not as if it's been HMRC's best kept secret.

When do they stop being entitled?

Last Saturday?"
Not sure when the date is. Do you think everyone should get this money regardless of income? Surely wealthy people don't need this cash.Or would you be in favour of dishing it out regardless of financial circumstances?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry but some comments on this thread are highly amusing. Accusing middle class people of fraud as if its a class war. It really shows that there are so many people jelous of those they perceive to have more than them and ironically its these middle class people who are paying taxes to support those who are unemployed. All this hate is really ugly to see.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What if you receive salary below the threshold but earn bonus taking you above it? How does that work with this as bonus tends to fluctuate from 0+

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"Ok just read what it is about....they will lose their Family allowance or a portion of it if they don't register....how is that benefit fraud ?

Because they're continuing to claim it after they know they're no longer entitled to.

It's not as if it's been HMRC's best kept secret.

When do they stop being entitled?

Last Saturday?Not sure when the date is. Do you think everyone should get this money regardless of income? Surely wealthy people don't need this cash.Or would you be in favour of dishing it out regardless of financial circumstances?"

Are you asking me or Onny?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Sorry but some comments on this thread are highly amusing. Accusing middle class people of fraud as if its a class war. It really shows that there are so many people jelous of those they perceive to have more than them and ironically its these middle class people who are paying taxes to support those who are unemployed. All this hate is really ugly to see. "

You might be better addressing this to IDS.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sorry but some comments on this thread are highly amusing. Accusing middle class people of fraud as if its a class war. It really shows that there are so many people jelous of those they perceive to have more than them and ironically its these middle class people who are paying taxes to support those who are unemployed. All this hate is really ugly to see.

You might be better addressing this to IDS."

Why would I want to do that I was expressing an opinion on what I have read on this thread.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham


"Ok just read what it is about....they will lose their Family allowance or a portion of it if they don't register....how is that benefit fraud ?

Because they're continuing to claim it after they know they're no longer entitled to.

It's not as if it's been HMRC's best kept secret.

When do they stop being entitled?

Last Saturday?Not sure when the date is. Do you think everyone should get this money regardless of income? Surely wealthy people don't need this cash.Or would you be in favour of dishing it out regardless of financial circumstances?

Are you asking me or Onny?"
Onny. That was the last quote in my post.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"Envy isn't pretty. £50k is not rich! "

The forums are swarming with the jealous! £50k is not rich!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On reflection I think I'll look this up myself and not bother you good people with triviality

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Sorry but some comments on this thread are highly amusing. Accusing middle class people of fraud as if its a class war. It really shows that there are so many people jelous of those they perceive to have more than them and ironically its these middle class people who are paying taxes to support those who are unemployed. All this hate is really ugly to see.

You might be better addressing this to IDS.

Why would I want to do that I was expressing an opinion on what I have read on this thread. "

He's the one stirring the hate and the one who has the authority to get it sorted.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"Ok just read what it is about....they will lose their Family allowance or a portion of it if they don't register....how is that benefit fraud ?

Because they're continuing to claim it after they know they're no longer entitled to.

It's not as if it's been HMRC's best kept secret.

When do they stop being entitled?

Last Saturday?Not sure when the date is. Do you think everyone should get this money regardless of income? Surely wealthy people don't need this cash.Or would you be in favour of dishing it out regardless of financial circumstances?

Are you asking me or Onny?Onny. That was the last quote in my post."

I only asked as it was me who asked the question that you answered in your first sentance.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"Blimey fab is turning into the daily mail"

"Turning"?!! Where have you been?!!

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

[Removed by poster at 09/10/13 23:08:55]

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham


"Ok just read what it is about....they will lose their Family allowance or a portion of it if they don't register....how is that benefit fraud ?

Because they're continuing to claim it after they know they're no longer entitled to.

It's not as if it's been HMRC's best kept secret.

When do they stop being entitled?

Last Saturday?Not sure when the date is. Do you think everyone should get this money regardless of income? Surely wealthy people don't need this cash.Or would you be in favour of dishing it out regardless of financial circumstances?

Are you asking me or Onny?Onny. That was the last quote in my post.

I only asked as it was me who asked the question that you answered in your first sentance.

"
My apologies if that was misconstrued.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sorry but some comments on this thread are highly amusing. Accusing middle class people of fraud as if its a class war. It really shows that there are so many people jelous of those they perceive to have more than them and ironically its these middle class people who are paying taxes to support those who are unemployed. All this hate is really ugly to see.

You might be better addressing this to IDS.

Why would I want to do that I was expressing an opinion on what I have read on this thread.

He's the one stirring the hate and the one who has the authority to get it sorted."

Is he I can't see him posting any comments on this thread. You have the right to be as jelous as you like of others but not to tell people to message elsewhere rather than post on a thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How can they be committing benefit fraud if they have until january to send the forms in? Or, if they haven't done it by the first deadline which has passf, perhaps they no longer wish to claim it?

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By *sprey6Man
over a year ago

Here!

I do not earn 50k, but if I did I would be paying enough tax and social security to be keeping two people in benefits.

It was not fraud. Filling in a claim falsely would be fraud. A benefit they were entitled to had changed. Simples

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a load of old bollocks some people post.

child benefit now tapers out if someone earns £50k disappearing completely when they earn £60k (regardless of the income of the second parent so yes you could both earn £49k and get full child benefit but one person earning £60k whilst the partner stays at home to look after the kids get nothing).

This fraud thing is nonsense. If you are above the £50k threshold you are still entitled to claim child benefit but you MUST become self assessed and when you complete the form HMRC will recover some or all the child benefit you claimed during the tax year in question.

the potential fraud would arise not in the claiming of the benefit if you were found to be making false declarations on your tax return.

the issue highlighted in the media recently was that c200,000 people thought to be claiming benefit but earning over £50k have not yet registered to be self assessed. If they don't by a certain date (forget what it is) they'll get fined. Just like you may be if you file a late corporation tax return, a late VAT registration an the like.

whilst i don't agree with the £60k single earner cut off theres nothing wrong in allowing people to continue to receieve CB because its recovered through the tax return. People's income can fluctuate say if your self employed, you can have good years and bad years. If you earn a regular salary over £60k its probably worth simply not claiming and saving the hassle of the self assessment.

Having said all that you could simply rant, foam at the mouth and blame the middle class of fraud if it makes you feel good.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"How can they be committing benefit fraud if they have until january to send the forms in? Or, if they haven't done it by the first deadline which has passf, perhaps they no longer wish to claim it?"

It seems they have to opt out rather than not claim

"The complicated way in which the change was introduced required parents to either opt out in advance from receiving the benefit by January 6 this year, or register with the taxman for a self assessment return by October 5."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How can they be committing benefit fraud if they have until january to send the forms in? Or, if they haven't done it by the first deadline which has passf, perhaps they no longer wish to claim it?"

Most people, though not all, will undoubtedly know that they are higher rate tax payers. If the applicable date of the cessation of the benefit is say, 1st October ( IDK) then that is the date that higher rate tax payers should disown the benefit. Simples.

How many well paid PAYE's don't look at their payslip and think "fuck me, look at how much tax i've suffered this month". You know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How can they be committing benefit fraud if they have until january to send the forms in? Or, if they haven't done it by the first deadline which has passf, perhaps they no longer wish to claim it?

Most people, though not all, will undoubtedly know that they are higher rate tax payers. If the applicable date of the cessation of the benefit is say, 1st October ( IDK) then that is the date that higher rate tax payers should disown the benefit. Simples.

How many well paid PAYE's don't look at their payslip and think "fuck me, look at how much tax i've suffered this month". You know.

"

Didn't answer my question though bud! It can't be fraud if they have until a certain time, and that time hasn't passed yet has it?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


" Is he I can't see him posting any comments on this thread."

He hasn't.


" You have the right to be as jelous as you like of others "

Thank you.


" but not to tell people to message elsewhere rather than post on a thread. "

You didn't fully understand, did you?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How can they be committing benefit fraud if they have until january to send the forms in? Or, if they haven't done it by the first deadline which has passf, perhaps they no longer wish to claim it?

Most people, though not all, will undoubtedly know that they are higher rate tax payers. If the applicable date of the cessation of the benefit is say, 1st October ( IDK) then that is the date that higher rate tax payers should disown the benefit. Simples.

How many well paid PAYE's don't look at their payslip and think "fuck me, look at how much tax i've suffered this month". You know.

Didn't answer my question though bud! It can't be fraud if they have until a certain time, and that time hasn't passed yet has it?"

IDK = I Don't Know ie the dates.

As has been mentionned above, if a date for registering is 5th October and c200,000 have not bothered to do so, then maybe they are leaving themselves open?

The most stupid thing of all is, the Government already knows full well who (99% or so)is and isn't eligible.

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By *corpiomanMan
over a year ago

harrogate

was she poor before she became rich?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As i've also said, i doubt there will be a single prosecution for fraud.

Much easier to pursue the unpaid fines and repayments and subsequent events, than to prosecute for fraud.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

As i've also said, i doubt there will be a single prosecution for fraud.

Much easier to pursue the unpaid fines and repayments and subsequent events, than to prosecute for fraud."

Especially with an election looming and UKIP lurking in Tory marginals.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Is he I can't see him posting any comments on this thread.

He hasn't.

You have the right to be as jelous as you like of others

Thank you.

but not to tell people to message elsewhere rather than post on a thread.

You didn't fully understand, did you?"

I think the one who didn't understand was you I would recommend actually reading what people post before quoting someone.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


" Is he I can't see him posting any comments on this thread.

He hasn't.

You have the right to be as jelous as you like of others

Thank you.

but not to tell people to message elsewhere rather than post on a thread.

You didn't fully understand, did you?

I think the one who didn't understand was you I would recommend actually reading what people post before quoting someone. "

Fully read and wholly understood.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

As i've also said, i doubt there will be a single prosecution for fraud.

Much easier to pursue the unpaid fines and repayments and subsequent events, than to prosecute for fraud.

Especially with an election looming and UKIP lurking in Tory marginals."

lol, and what about Liberal marginals?

Could such exist for Labour?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why not just knock child benefit on the head altogether it would save a fortune in admin costs.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

As i've also said, i doubt there will be a single prosecution for fraud.

Much easier to pursue the unpaid fines and repayments and subsequent events, than to prosecute for fraud.

Especially with an election looming and UKIP lurking in Tory marginals.

lol, and what about Liberal marginals?

Could such exist for Labour? "

I think the fact Ming Campbell announced today that he wouldn't stand in the next election tells you everything you need to know about how the Lib Dems rate their chances in 2015.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why not just knock child benefit on the head altogether it would save a fortune in admin costs. "

Serious question :

Would it reduce the munber of births and if so, by how much, roughly, say %wise?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why not just knock child benefit on the head altogether it would save a fortune in admin costs.

Serious question :

Would it reduce the munber of births and if so, by how much, roughly, say %wise?"

I would hazard a guess it would but by how many who knows. I don't know if you can get it for all children but its out dated idea these days as I see it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why not just knock child benefit on the head altogether it would save a fortune in admin costs. "

I'm guessing you don't have kids yourself then? Seeing as you advocate letting them suffer to 'save admin costs'!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Why not just knock child benefit on the head altogether it would save a fortune in admin costs.

Serious question :

Would it reduce the munber of births and if so, by how much, roughly, say %wise?

I would hazard a guess it would but by how many who knows. I don't know if you can get it for all children but its out dated idea these days as I see it. "

the tax and benefit system has grown and grown over the years and everytime someone comes up with what they think is a good idea they pass some legislation and pile it on top of the old stuff.

It would probably make more sense to do away with in work benefits altogether and use the tax code system to pay people (through their wages) the amount they would previously have had in benefits.

I'm aware the drawback is that Child Benefit was deliberately set up in such a way that it was payable to the Mother, so that would need addressing but it shouldn't be insurmountable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why not just knock child benefit on the head altogether it would save a fortune in admin costs.

I'm guessing you don't have kids yourself then? Seeing as you advocate letting them suffer to 'save admin costs'!"

And why would they suffer? You are making a lot of assumptions there there are multiple benefits available the child benefit is out dated if its going to multi tear system why not rid this one.

But come on I would love to hear how you assume they would suffer I really would and also how having children or not really count in this. come tell me your words of wisdom when you have extracted yourself from the presumption slurry pit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why not just knock child benefit on the head altogether it would save a fortune in admin costs.

I'm guessing you don't have kids yourself then? Seeing as you advocate letting them suffer to 'save admin costs'!

And why would they suffer? You are making a lot of assumptions there there are multiple benefits available the child benefit is out dated if its going to multi tear system why not rid this one.

But come on I would love to hear how you assume they would suffer I really would and also how having children or not really count in this. come tell me your words of wisdom when you have extracted yourself from the presumption slurry pit. "

Lol. The presumption slurry pit? Really? Its a child benefit, paid to the mother for her childs upbringing! Taking it away would leave those children in poorer homes even worse off! What other benefit would you replace it with?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Someone said that if we didn't have child benefit paid in cash across a post office counter to the mother we'd have to re-invent it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Ok ok I posted this about the gov hypocrisy. First they say fill forms before Oct or face hefty fines. 160,000 didn't and now they saying they have til 31st Jan. If done by then fines are to waived. That was the jist of my original post.

So way I see it the government is effectively saying you never did it but its ok we will give you another four months to do so. Yes any child benefit overpaid will be recouped from recipient after then.

My point being they are saying its ok to steal £20 a week as long as declare it in four months.

Its fraud as they are claiming benefit they are no longer entitled too. If I claimed for four months when I was not entitled i would be called a theif and a benefit fraud. Yet these people who do not even need the benefit are basically told its ok to commit fraud for the next four months with no fear of prosecution or financial penalty. Yet a disabled person who refuses to pay £14 gets hit with rent arrears and faces eviction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok ok I posted this about the gov hypocrisy. First they say fill forms before Oct or face hefty fines. 160,000 didn't and now they saying they have til 31st Jan. If done by then fines are to waived. That was the jist of my original post.

So way I see it the government is effectively saying you never did it but its ok we will give you another four months to do so. Yes any child benefit overpaid will be recouped from recipient after then.

My point being they are saying its ok to steal £20 a week as long as declare it in four months.

Its fraud as they are claiming benefit they are no longer entitled too. If I claimed for four months when I was not entitled i would be called a theif and a benefit fraud. Yet these people who do not even need the benefit are basically told its ok to commit fraud for the next four months with no fear of prosecution or financial penalty. Yet a disabled person who refuses to pay £14 gets hit with rent arrears and faces eviction. "

You are assuming that because they earn a certain amount they don't need the benefit... People live within their means- whatever that amount may be.

Cutting someone's income, however it is done, WILL have an effect, regardless of what salary bracket you fall into.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Cutting someone's income, however it is done, WILL have an effect, regardless of what salary bracket you fall into. "

IDS says it'll make those with jobs work harder and those without jobs find jobs.

Quite simple when you think about it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Sadly was IDS who said they don't need it. My post was about the government allowing some to claim fraudulently with no financial or legal comeback whilst at the same time persecuting those on benefits who actually are entitled and in actual need. Think reason won't be hard on them is its their voters

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok ok I posted this about the gov hypocrisy. First they say fill forms before Oct or face hefty fines. 160,000 didn't and now they saying they have til 31st Jan. If done by then fines are to waived. That was the jist of my original post.

So way I see it the government is effectively saying you never did it but its ok we will give you another four months to do so. Yes any child benefit overpaid will be recouped from recipient after then.

My point being they are saying its ok to steal £20 a week as long as declare it in four months.

Its fraud as they are claiming benefit they are no longer entitled too. If I claimed for four months when I was not entitled i would be called a theif and a benefit fraud. Yet these people who do not even need the benefit are basically told its ok to commit fraud for the next four months with no fear of prosecution or financial penalty. Yet a disabled person who refuses to pay £14 gets hit with rent arrears and faces eviction.

You are assuming that because they earn a certain amount they don't need the benefit... People live within their means- whatever that amount may be.

Cutting someone's income, however it is done, WILL have an effect, regardless of what salary bracket you fall into. "

Many don't live within means look at the payday loan companies. But you have a point the middle class ones will cut down on many things including charity donations. I am waiting for the govt to wake up and get our own unemployed into jobs rather than let foreign workers do them. The fit and healthy should work there is no excuse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Go to any job center and there are loads of jobs available.. Sadly in many cases it's a case of what people are willing to do to earn money and what they believe is worth it. I see it every day in work. Lower paid jobs just don't get the interest because people don't want to get off their arses to do it! These jobs are snapped up by immigrants, who then work their way up the food chain by working hard. Unfortunately many people expect to start at the top, after not working for so long and/or with little experience.

When I said "living within their means", I meant by whatever form the money comes. If you are used to getting an extra £100 per month for example, you will quickly start using that money and possibly not even notice where it's gone. However, if that £100 is suddenly stopped, you will notice it massively and it will affect what you can and can't do. It's all relative. People who earn more naturally have higher outgoings than those who earn less, as their costs of living are more. I guarantee that some months, after paying all of my bills, I have less than some people who are on benefits, who don't have to pay those essential bills, like mortgage/council tax etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Go to any job center and there are loads of jobs available.. Sadly in many cases it's a case of what people are willing to do to earn money and what they believe is worth it. I see it every day in work. Lower paid jobs just don't get the interest because people don't want to get off their arses to do it! These jobs are snapped up by immigrants, who then work their way up the food chain by working hard. Unfortunately many people expect to start at the top, after not working for so long and/or with little experience.

When I said "living within their means", I meant by whatever form the money comes. If you are used to getting an extra £100 per month for example, you will quickly start using that money and possibly not even notice where it's gone. However, if that £100 is suddenly stopped, you will notice it massively and it will affect what you can and can't do. It's all relative. People who earn more naturally have higher outgoings than those who earn less, as their costs of living are more. I guarantee that some months, after paying all of my bills, I have less than some people who are on benefits, who don't have to pay those essential bills, like mortgage/council tax etc. "

It just looks like its not worth working as people can manage on benefits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Go to any job center and there are loads of jobs available.. Sadly in many cases it's a case of what people are willing to do to earn money and what they believe is worth it. I see it every day in work. Lower paid jobs just don't get the interest because people don't want to get off their arses to do it! These jobs are snapped up by immigrants, who then work their way up the food chain by working hard. Unfortunately many people expect to start at the top, after not working for so long and/or with little experience.

When I said "living within their means", I meant by whatever form the money comes. If you are used to getting an extra £100 per month for example, you will quickly start using that money and possibly not even notice where it's gone. However, if that £100 is suddenly stopped, you will notice it massively and it will affect what you can and can't do. It's all relative. People who earn more naturally have higher outgoings than those who earn less, as their costs of living are more. I guarantee that some months, after paying all of my bills, I have less than some people who are on benefits, who don't have to pay those essential bills, like mortgage/council tax etc.

It just looks like its not worth working as people can manage on benefits. "

I know this might cause an argument, but in my opinion it shouldn't be easy to live on benefits.. It should be crap and hard. Otherwise who the hell is going to work?! If everyone could survive quite easily on state benefit we would be in trouble!

I recently saw a lady who had quit her job because it was more beneficial for her to claim benefits?! What is this country coming too?! People who work should also be supported, not penalized and offered no financial help whatsoever! Those with mortgages and financial responsibilities should be entitled to claim some form of help if it is needed, not dismissed because they earn a certain amount.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Go to any job center and there are loads of jobs available.. Sadly in many cases it's a case of what people are willing to do to earn money and what they believe is worth it. I see it every day in work. Lower paid jobs just don't get the interest because people don't want to get off their arses to do it! These jobs are snapped up by immigrants, who then work their way up the food chain by working hard. Unfortunately many people expect to start at the top, after not working for so long and/or with little experience.

When I said "living within their means", I meant by whatever form the money comes. If you are used to getting an extra £100 per month for example, you will quickly start using that money and possibly not even notice where it's gone. However, if that £100 is suddenly stopped, you will notice it massively and it will affect what you can and can't do. It's all relative. People who earn more naturally have higher outgoings than those who earn less, as their costs of living are more. I guarantee that some months, after paying all of my bills, I have less than some people who are on benefits, who don't have to pay those essential bills, like mortgage/council tax etc.

It just looks like its not worth working as people can manage on benefits.

I know this might cause an argument, but in my opinion it shouldn't be easy to live on benefits.. It should be crap and hard. Otherwise who the hell is going to work?! If everyone could survive quite easily on state benefit we would be in trouble!

I recently saw a lady who had quit her job because it was more beneficial for her to claim benefits?! What is this country coming too?! People who work should also be supported, not penalized and offered no financial help whatsoever! Those with mortgages and financial responsibilities should be entitled to claim some form of help if it is needed, not dismissed because they earn a certain amount. "

I have seen people quit jobs too and was flabergasted they could do it. The reality is working tax credits don't make it attractive enough to work. Personally if people have kids its always going to be difficult so there needs to be help there. The singles who are fit and don't work well then it should be harder for them to the point working seems like a good alternative. The biggest issue I see is singles housing benefit which can add up to a fair bit making them see it as not viable to work. Do i see the stick as the best way to solve this? No in reality it will cause more problems its mind set, pride and making people want to work that is the best direction to go.

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By *hole Lotta RosieWoman
over a year ago

Deviant City

I'm obviously claiming all the wrong benefits, as I struggle to keep a roof over my head. I pay towards my council tax and rent, I'm a single mum to a teenage son in school (no school uniform vouchers, they were scrapped years ago in my area), I pay his monthly bus ticket of £45 and his school dinners, I haven't taken him on holiday since he was 6.

I am registered disabled and was last week at the job centre, as I would do anything to get back to work. They said I was even too ill to attend any more work focused interviews and they will carry the interview out over the phone every 4 months, instead of popping in weekly.

Although my advisor knew it was the best thing for my health, i was heartbroken and burst into tears. I still find it difficult to accept that I cant work and only hope my health improves

Not everybody lives a cushty life on benefits, I'll go without a proper meal for days, not only because I can no longer afford a carer, but because I can't afford the food. I do not drink, nor do I smoke (just occasional ecigs).

I know I shouldn't have to explain myself, but people shouldn't assume that if your on benefits that your well off.

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By *sprey6Man
over a year ago

Here!

Just to lighten up this debate that I have read from top to bottom and put a slightly different slant on it. ..........

There are some amazingly sexy women on this site that have made my winky feel funny! !!!!!!!!!!

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By *hole Lotta RosieWoman
over a year ago

Deviant City


"Just to lighten up this debate that I have read from top to bottom and put a slightly different slant on it. ..........

There are some amazingly sexy women on this site that have made my winky feel funny! !!!!!!!!!!

"

perv

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By *sprey6Man
over a year ago

Here!


"Just to lighten up this debate that I have read from top to bottom and put a slightly different slant on it. ..........

There are some amazingly sexy women on this site that have made my winky feel funny! !!!!!!!!!!

perv "

Why thank you pretty lady with lovely pics lol x

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By *rivate auditionsMan
over a year ago

West Midlands

crikey!,sounding more like the daily mirror every day on here!.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"Why not just knock child benefit on the head altogether it would save a fortune in admin costs.

I'm guessing you don't have kids yourself then? Seeing as you advocate letting them suffer to 'save admin costs'!"

See I don't get this...we had our kids because we wanted them and not just because you got child benefit...surely most parents do the same.

Now don't get me wrong, I know circumstances can change but I think if you can't afford kids don't have them.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"crikey!,sounding more like the daily mirror every day on here!. "

It was the Mail up the top.

i know these comments about papers are meant as put downs, but they are getting really tedious lately when people are trying to have a debate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ive been thinking about this and was listening to radio two yesterday and I'd give up my child benefit if they give every child a free school meal everyday whatever their age. I earn way under the 50k bracket but I would be willing to give it up to see it go to good use.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"crikey!,sounding more like the daily mirror every day on here!.

It was the Mail up the top.

i know these comments about papers are meant as put downs, but they are getting really tedious lately when people are trying to have a debate."

yes it's very patronising

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By *rlicker123Man
over a year ago

gillingham kent


"Why not just knock child benefit on the head altogether it would save a fortune in admin costs.

I'm guessing you don't have kids yourself then? Seeing as you advocate letting them suffer to 'save admin costs'!

See I don't get this...we had our kids because we wanted them and not just because you got child benefit...surely most parents do the same.

Now don't get me wrong, I know circumstances can change but I think if you can't afford kids don't have them. "
my mum got nothing for me you only got it for the second child.

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By *imply_SensualMan
over a year ago

warrington

The deadline of October 2013 was for submitting your self assessment in hard copy format. If doing it online, the deadline is January - see HMRC website. So those 160,000 haven't committed any crime or fraud at all, they may simply be waiting to submit it online before the end of January, just like all other self assessors.

They are currently not doing anything wrong because once they have submitted the tax return, they have the choice to either pay back what they owe as a lump sum, or allow the tax office to amend their tax code and pay it back through PAYE over a longer period.

A lot of assumptions being made and as a few have said, it amazing how differently people interpret some messages. I found it surprising how many people have little knowledge of current affairs too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why not just knock child benefit on the head altogether it would save a fortune in admin costs.

I'm guessing you don't have kids yourself then? Seeing as you advocate letting them suffer to 'save admin costs'!

See I don't get this...we had our kids because we wanted them and not just because you got child benefit...surely most parents do the same.

Now don't get me wrong, I know circumstances can change but I think if you can't afford kids don't have them. "

Of course there are people that use their kids as cash cows. I'm not disputing that. But, there are far more honest folk out there that have fell on hard times due to no fault of their own. What are they to do? Hand the kids back until things pick up?

Its very easy to blame others for their own mis-fortunes and i think people are very naive when they say, "why have kids if you can't afford them" tbh! After all, no-one knows what is lurking around the corner these days!

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I did put that very disclaimer in my post, that no one knows what is around the corner but people surely don't count on FA to be able to feed their kids when deciding on having kids....if that makes me naive then thats ok with me being thought of like that.

At the moment FA is for the kids, wether you work or not.If there was no family allowance and someone got into hard times then I am sure whatever help is handed out will include something for the kids too.

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By *rXtraMan
over a year ago

Milton Keynes


"Go to any job center and there are loads of jobs available.. Sadly in many cases it's a case of what people are willing to do to earn money and what they believe is worth it. I see it every day in work. Lower paid jobs just don't get the interest because people don't want to get off their arses to do it! These jobs are snapped up by immigrants, who then work their way up the food chain by working hard. Unfortunately many people expect to start at the top, after not working for so long and/or with little experience.

When I said "living within their means", I meant by whatever form the money comes. If you are used to getting an extra £100 per month for example, you will quickly start using that money and possibly not even notice where it's gone. However, if that £100 is suddenly stopped, you will notice it massively and it will affect what you can and can't do. It's all relative. People who earn more naturally have higher outgoings than those who earn less, as their costs of living are more. I guarantee that some months, after paying all of my bills, I have less than some people who are on benefits, who don't have to pay those essential bills, like mortgage/council tax etc. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am sure there are some people who wrongly claim benefits, there are also some who appear to be living well on benefits, but, there are also those who are struggling. The whole welfare system needs modernising. More focus is needed to help out of work people gain employment. Allocation of welfare should be limited, and fairly means tested.

As for the 60k/Child benefit issue, well, it's never going to please every one, but change is needed. The benefit itself (Approx £135 every 4 weeks for 2 children) is essential for some families - and there are those who could manage without.

But hey, I don't make the rules, I just live with them, and give my opinion on a ballot paper.

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