FabSwingers.com forum: 15 Minutes only ..........

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

15 minutes to go in as homecare and look after the elderly and vulnerable.

Bloody disgraceful way of treating those who have no choice and for the most have no visitors at all.

Some gauge a country on how it treats its elderly......

As a country , we should be ashamed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

depends what needs doing i guess..

are you a community care worker?

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By *illon321Man
over a year ago

Lower sheering

well done on you peaches12 we must make more time for the old folks of this country

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I cant really comment as its a very complicated subject with lots of different factors, most of which i probably haven't heard on the news today.

An easy bet though, is everyone can help the situation

http://www.contact-the-elderly.org.uk/become-a-volunteer/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I saw that today

a lady who I grew up with and was like a second Gran to me had 2 visits a day and her family never visited, even at 90 and with cancer

My Nan used to do her best to visit daily to see if she was ok, numerous times she had to clean up because she had to clean up as she had messed herself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"15 minutes to go in as homecare and look after the elderly and vulnerable.

Bloody disgraceful way of treating those who have no choice and for the most have no visitors at all.

Some gauge a country on how it treats its elderly......

As a country , we should be ashamed.

I am, but not just for that reason. Its strange that when people think of how great a nation we once were. We have to go back to the olden days a long time ago.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I use to do care in the community but gave it up because I was disgusted with the time restraints. I had one lady I had to be at by 445 and another lady I had to be at by 5 with about a mile and a half between them.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

it is a shame, even worse when there is a family that could look after their elderly loved ones better.

some will be round quick enough for any inheritance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"15 minutes to go in as homecare and look after the elderly and vulnerable.

Bloody disgraceful way of treating those who have no choice and for the most have no visitors at all.

Some gauge a country on how it treats its elderly......

As a country , we should be ashamed.

I'm home carer with the elderly and it's social work who decide how long a person gets and what is needed. For some it might just be medication they need given to them, in which case they would get a 15 minute visit.

As carers we are restricted in what we can do dependent on the time we are given. We do our best and since I started doing this job I feel sorry for the ones who have no family or friends that visit. Sometimes we are the only people they see from day to day.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

"I feel sorry for the ones who have no family or friends that visit. Sometimes we are the only people they see from day to day."

that is so very very sad...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I work in a care home and it's no better there...lately there are more and more daft things added to what we have to do...and extra paperwork to fill out...I want to spend time with the people I am supposedly a carer for..and give them the care and dedication they deserve...not spend half my time filling out paperwork and doing things that don't actually involve the lovely residents...

S x

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

My training was within social services and i worked with those with complex needs and the elderly.,

I also know, through experience there are great carers out there who do sterling work and i also have experienced really bad carers...

Those who leave an elderly lady 3 ft from her breakfast and she couldnt move to get it.

This happened several times until i put a complaint in,

She lived in appalling conditions with family literally "up the road"

I went in many times to find her "grandkids" and boyfriends on her phone and playing with expensive hoists etc.

I couldnt take it any more and asked my boss to call a meeting to discuss.

The outcome was getting "my elsie" into a nursing home and i visited every week until she died.

I fought tooth and nail for my old dears . every day if i had to.....

To give a little back to those who gave so much ............

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I work in a care home and it's no better there...lately there are more and more daft things added to what we have to do...and extra paperwork to fill out...I want to spend time with the people I am supposedly a carer for..and give them the care and dedication they deserve...not spend half my time filling out paperwork and doing things that don't actually involve the lovely residents...

S x"

know exactly what you mean.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is about the report by Leonard Cheshire isn't it.

I work for them (I'm a senior acquired brain injury specialist) I got the report last week but I've still not read it yet!

Sadly its a common problem that's been going on for years...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

S x"

Oh for the days when everyone didn't need a degree* to do a good and worthwhile job. Sigh.

* a degree in form filling.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"depends what needs doing i guess..

are you a community care worker?"

Utter rubbish. Elderly and disabled people deserve more than just 15 minutes of someone's time.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

My frustration in in those who make the decisions......

My last post was in a "day centre" which were put into place because it was found the elderly were dying alone in their homes with no outside contact at all........how sad is that ...

Now...... they have closed the majority of them

whats changed ? nothing,

infact we have even more elderly that need companionship and help......not to be given a miserly 15 mins and then ignored.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

S x

Oh for the days when everyone didn't need a degree* to do a good and worthwhile job. Sigh.

* a degree in form filling. "

People would be amazed on the amount of form filling there is,.,overwhelming most of the time.

which can detract from the job your trying to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"depends what needs doing i guess..

are you a community care worker?

Utter rubbish. Elderly and disabled people deserve more than just 15 minutes of someone's time. "

so why is what i say rubbish?? as a HCA ive had people on my 'run' where all ive had to do was administer medication from a box supplied by a chemist.. if id have felt they needed more 'care' then naturally id have raised concerns to my team leaders/social services etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

S x

Oh for the days when everyone didn't need a degree* to do a good and worthwhile job. Sigh.

* a degree in form filling.

People would be amazed on the amount of form filling there is,.,overwhelming most of the time.

which can detract from the job your trying to do.

Something that always stayed with me from a training session was that care stood for Cover Arse, Record Everything

If its not been documented, it hasnt been done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

15 minutes is an absolute joke....what can you do in 15 minutes...say hello and goodbye !!!! when I was a community carer I loved having a chat with the people I went to see....I loved hearing their stories and I loved helping out in any way I could !

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

S x

Oh for the days when everyone didn't need a degree* to do a good and worthwhile job. Sigh.

* a degree in form filling.

People would be amazed on the amount of form filling there is,.,overwhelming most of the time.

which can detract from the job your trying to do.

Something that always stayed with me from a training session was that care stood for Cover Arse, Record Everything

If its not been documented, it hasnt been done. "

so true

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"15 minutes to go in as homecare and look after the elderly and vulnerable.

Bloody disgraceful way of treating those who have no choice and for the most have no visitors at all.

Some gauge a country on how it treats its elderly......

As a country , we should be ashamed.

Totally agree with you I work with young adults with special needs and support in the community for elderly. Lots of restrictions and companies who pretend as charities make money but never care about the people who made this world a better place for us to live. It's a shame.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

I watched this on the news this morning and there was some woman moaning about her mum getting 15 minute visits........... of course if you listened carefully, her mum actually got 4 visits per day and only two of them were for 15 minutes.

I bet she would have moaned more if the council made her mum sell her home to pay for her care in a residential home.

The thing is, to put it into perspective, sometimes 15 minutes is enough. A blanket outrage towards all 15 minute visits appears to be a knee jerk reaction based on bias bollox.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"depends what needs doing i guess..

are you a community care worker?

Utter rubbish. Elderly and disabled people deserve more than just 15 minutes of someone's time.

How would you know if they needed more care or social interaction/stimulation if 'all' you had to do was administer medication from a box from the chemist?

Anyway, the fault doesn't always lay with the carers as they're hard pushed, undertrained and under paid enough as it is. Our biggest problem is with lazy social services and their poor internal communication or flippant disregard for the elderly/disabled people's welfare. It's often a case of "well there's already a care package in place so why should we change it?" Or they just cancel re_iew meetings and fail to reschedule until something happens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whilst in an ideal world i would love to be able to spend more time with each client i have ever dealt with to chat and enjoy a cup of tea, however there will always be someone else who needs exceed that of someone who just wants company.

its about priority and as a carer it also comes down to cost. Some one has to pay for this i'm guessing..

I studied a lot on Maslow's hierarchy of needs and know that its so important for a person to have self worth and a purpose in life, and it SHOULD be placed as important as someone who needs help to wash and dress but Social Services wont pay for this. Its easy to point fingers and blame others, but sadly the reality of sorting these issues cant be dealt with over night.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am in home care shortist visit I do is half hour at a time but that half hour can be 4 or 5 times a day

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"it is a shame, even worse when there is a family that could look after their elderly loved ones better.

some will be round quick enough for any inheritance"

Exactly

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Whilst in an ideal world i would love to be able to spend more time with each client i have ever dealt with to chat and enjoy a cup of tea, however there will always be someone else who needs exceed that of someone who just wants company.

its about priority and as a carer it also comes down to cost. Some one has to pay for this i'm guessing..

Agree totally

So why close the day centres ? we did a bloody good job as an inbetween ...between the medical side and the home care side.

It was closed simply because of money and because the government wanted it to go private.

Yet now councils are having to pay more because people are stuck at home and can only afford the cost of 15mins.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"depends what needs doing i guess..

are you a community care worker?

Utter rubbish. Elderly and disabled people deserve more than just 15 minutes of someone's time.

How would you know if they needed more care or social interaction/stimulation if 'all' you had to do was administer medication from a box from the chemist?

Yup........i know all about this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ok (dumbass here) did i miss a news article or something?

I just thought this was a general convo. I'll trawl the net and reply

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

One of the stats used was "In England, 60% of councils use 15-minute visits, which are not long enough to provide adequate care."

But they fail to provide stats on how many of these 15 minute visits were used as secondary or even 3rd and 4th supplementary visits throughout the day, with the primary care needs being met on longer visits at the start and end of the day.

An outright ban on 15 minute visits may indeed reduce the overall support time some people receive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"15 minutes to go in as homecare and look after the elderly and vulnerable.

Bloody disgraceful way of treating those who have no choice and for the most have no visitors at all.

Some gauge a country on how it treats its elderly......

As a country , we should be ashamed.

I think you will find its the care agency who route the carer and not the social worker who decides the length of call.

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By *reelove1969Couple
over a year ago

bristol

i would fear if either of my parents had to go into the system of 'care' in the community and probably move back home ..for some ...15 minutes is what it takes to get out of bed ..never mind getting washed or sorting breakfast out

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Honestly,.

I wouldnt have allowed my parents to go into care. I would have done that job myself.

Although im sad my parents passed,im glad they never had to rely on the state for anything , because we as a family stepped in when needed .

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"I watched this on the news this morning and there was some woman moaning about her mum getting 15 minute visits........... of course if you listened carefully, her mum actually got 4 visits per day and only two of them were for 15 minutes.

I bet she would have moaned more if the council made her mum sell her home to pay for her care in a residential home.

The thing is, to put it into perspective, sometimes 15 minutes is enough. A blanket outrage towards all 15 minute visits appears to be a knee jerk reaction based on bias bollox."
Agreed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you will find its the care agency who route the carer and not the social worker who decides the length of call.

I think you'll find it depends on who is doing the assessing and who is paying the costs.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"Honestly,.

I wouldnt have allowed my parents to go into care. I would have done that job myself.

Although im sad my parents passed,im glad they never had to rely on the state for anything , because we as a family stepped in when needed ."
With respect Peaches being a carer is fucking hard work, you say you would do it but in reality lots can't, never mind the won't bit. Some people cannot afford to give up work to look after relatives etc.... There is lots of bias that way and it really gets on my tits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One of the stats used was "In England, 60% of councils use 15-minute visits, which are not long enough to provide adequate care."

An outright ban on 15 minute visits may indeed reduce the overall support time some people receive."

Or fail to supply the ever increasing number of people needing cares.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

Also I would like to add that just because they are elderly, doesnt automatically make them lovely old dears as you put it. Some people were right miserable old buggers and caused their relatives lots of hurt n pain, my advise, don't judge others on their actions.

Having said that anyone who needs care and attention should get it, but don't blame the relatives automatically.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Honestly,.

I wouldnt have allowed my parents to go into care. I would have done that job myself.

Although im sad my parents passed,im glad they never had to rely on the state for anything , because we as a family stepped in when needed .With respect Peaches being a carer is fucking hard work, you say you would do it but in reality lots can't, never mind the won't bit. Some people cannot afford to give up work to look after relatives etc.... There is lots of bias that way and it really gets on my tits.

What about those who abused their children? Should those children then be put into a position of caring for their elderly parents? I see two potential negative outcomes - 1. The mental abuse of parent to child continues (I've witnessed it).

2. The child becomes the abuser (learned behaviour).

Of course neither may happen...

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

I was my mum's main carer for years. However, it got to breaking point when I damaged my back so badly I couldn't walk for 3 weeks. That was when we had to ask social services for help.

From then on my mum had carers 3 times a day. She was severely disabled by the end as she had an extremely debilitating illness. However, I was still there every day ensuring she had taken her meds, that she had eaten properly, etc, not to mention just to have a chat. I also used to take her out in the mobility van every Saturday for lunch and shopping, and occasionally to the theatre.

Mostly the carers were superb but time was a main difficulty. They were so rushed. I know definitely that the early morning visit took near enough an hour as mum would have to be put in a hoist and then taken to the shower, dried and dressed and then brought by lift downstairs with another hoist used to get her into her armchair. If her care had been reduced to 15 minutes per visit she would have been left bed-bound and not had the same quality of life.

The fault lies, in the main, in the fact that social services care is left to private companies whose main interest is profits. The 'care' element is simply a 'service' for 'clients'. People with needs seem to have been lost in the rush for hard cash.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Also I would like to add that just because they are elderly, doesnt automatically make them lovely old dears as you put it. Some people were right miserable old buggers and caused their relatives lots of hurt n pain, my advise, don't judge others on their actions.

Having said that anyone who needs care and attention should get it, but don't blame the relatives automatically."

You posted as I was composing

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I was my mum's main carer for years. However, it got to breaking point when I damaged my back so badly I couldn't walk for 3 weeks. That was when we had to ask social services for help.

Spot on

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"Honestly,.

I wouldnt have allowed my parents to go into care. I would have done that job myself.

2. The child becomes the abuser (learned behaviour).

Of course neither may happen..."
Eloquently put, I just get pissed off when people think relatives have just disregarded their folks, some do, I cannot argue with that, but to judge all the same is ignorant.The first of your examples happens quite often, again, I too, have had experience of this in a professional capacity.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"I was my mum's main carer for years. However, it got to breaking point when I damaged my back so badly I couldn't walk for 3 weeks. That was when we had to ask social services for help.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Having said that anyone who needs care and attention should get it, but don't blame the relatives automatically."

oh i know they are not all "lovely old dears" ive met some horrid ones over the years but what im on about basically is this.........

people re councils and government keep saying they are doing whats needed and they are not........simples.

Its a hard job and those with the money are making it harder and harder on those who have to care .

they pay peanuts to those intrusted with that care and then expect miracles.

It wont happen .

And its the consequenses of that , that scares me

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

Having said that anyone who needs care and attention should get it, but don't blame the relatives automatically.

oh i know they are not all "lovely old dears" ive met some horrid ones over the years but what im on about basically is this.........

people re councils and government keep saying they are doing whats needed and they are not........simples.

Its a hard job and those with the money are making it harder and harder on those who have to care .

they pay peanuts to those intrusted with that care and then expect miracles.

It wont happen .

And its the consequenses of that , that scares me

"
Try running a ward in a NHS hospital...its not just people in the community that are suffering.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

So peaches, how would you ensure everyone had visitors?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is about the report by Leonard Cheshire isn't it.

I work for them (I'm a senior acquired brain injury specialist) I got the report last week but I've still not read it yet!

Sadly its a common problem that's been going on for years..."

Well, when 'senior' staff leave reports laying on the desk unread for over a week, doesn't exactly help with the situation does it?

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

And for those who are critical of relatives of the elderly - there may be those who neglect the elderly. But many cannot afford to give up work. I couldn't and had to manage around work - though I did give up my management position effectively killing my career. It was only after sustaining a back injury which I still suffer from to this day after constant lifting of my mum (who was a dead weight due to her disability) that I had to stop and get help.

It was exhausting, stressful and depressing and I turned into simply a carer which badly affected the mother/daughter relationship. We only got that back after we got carers in.

For those who are so altruistically claiming they would never get carers in - think about working all day, going to your parent's house, cooking, cleaning, ironing, changing the bed, then changing your parent (my mother had a urostomy bag which needed changing and cleaning regularly), ensuring meds were taken, taking care of finances and anything else. And then going home and doing all that for yourself. Imagine that day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year without a break. Imagine how tired you would be. Imagine the effect on your life.

By the time my mum had passed I had destroyed my career (which had considerable financial implications), my marriage had broken down and I had no social life whatsoever.

Would I do the same again? Possibly but I would also have looked at getting more help. I was very ill by the end and close to a stroke and even now, 3 years later, my health still suffers.

I never want to put my own child through that - ever.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having said that anyone who needs care and attention should get it, but don't blame the relatives automatically.

oh i know they are not all "lovely old dears" ive met some horrid ones over the years but what im on about basically is this.........

people re councils and government keep saying they are doing whats needed and they are not........simples.

Its a hard job and those with the money are making it harder and harder on those who have to care .

they pay peanuts to those intrusted with that care and then expect miracles.

It wont happen .

And its the consequenses of that , that scares me

Try running a ward in a NHS hospital...its not just people in the community that are suffering."

Are you saying Holby isn't a true reflection?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"So peaches, how would you ensure everyone had visitors?"

This may sound strange but doing what my mate does.........volunteering...

we have an army of older peeps with time on their hands....to offer friendship and an ear when needed. they can report anything serious or anything that worrys them etc,

we used to have them in the wards at hospitals.but red tape stopped that....We need to use that resourse available and then that frees up those who need to do the "hands on care"

Its "red tape" and all this health and safety that stopped all that help.....age concern are trying to re implement it .....and its going great guns for those having the balls to use it.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

Having said that anyone who needs care and attention should get it, but don't blame the relatives automatically.

oh i know they are not all "lovely old dears" ive met some horrid ones over the years but what im on about basically is this.........

people re councils and government keep saying they are doing whats needed and they are not........simples.

Its a hard job and those with the money are making it harder and harder on those who have to care .

they pay peanuts to those intrusted with that care and then expect miracles.

It wont happen .

And its the consequenses of that , that scares me

Try running a ward in a NHS hospital...its not just people in the community that are suffering.

Are you saying Holby isn't a true reflection?

"
I hate to shatter your illusions......

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"So peaches, how would you ensure everyone had visitors?

This may sound strange but doing what my mate does.........volunteering...

we have an army of older peeps with time on their hands....to offer friendship and an ear when needed. they can report anything serious or anything that worrys them etc,

we used to have them in the wards at hospitals.but red tape stopped that....We need to use that resourse available and then that frees up those who need to do the "hands on care"

Its "red tape" and all this health and safety that stopped all that help.....age concern are trying to re implement it .....and its going great guns for those having the balls to use it.

"
So it was better in the "olden days" then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I cant really comment as its a very complicated subject with lots of different factors, most of which i probably haven't heard on the news today.

An easy bet though, is everyone can help the situation

http://www.contact-the-elderly.org.uk/become-a-volunteer/"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was a home carer for 7 years, in a very rural area, clocking up major mileage for a comparatively very small number of clients. I did the am and pm weekend rotas, and 4 weekday evening rotas. Especially the weekends were murderous: 06.45-13.00 - 16.30-22.00. I should have had 6 hrs rest in between. Should. There were many clients who required hoisting, for which 2 carers should be available. I did them on my own, not just the hoisting, but (un)dressing, cleaning (double incontinence), etc. You try and turn a 15 stone person in their bed, even with a sliding sheet. Repetitively reported potential dangerous situations (too much furniture precluding unimpeded movement), loose wiring on the floor etc etc, were ignored. Complaints about 'the office' who didn't have a clue about the topography and who lived where and therefore oblivious about the insane routes they wrote down and subsequent distances involved went unheeded. Care plans that hadn't been updated for ages.

Imagine getting to your last evening client and you discover that they ran out of vital medication (Warfarin, anyone?).... Try to call the Out of Hours number...

And only the last few years we fully trained carers crawled away from the minimum wage.

Yes, the short visits are a problem. But the shortage of qualified and motivated carers is self-inflicted.

[/rant]. Sorry - had to get this off my chesticles.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"So peaches, how would you ensure everyone had visitors?

This may sound strange but doing what my mate does.........volunteering...

we have an army of older peeps with time on their hands....to offer friendship and an ear when needed. they can report anything serious or anything that worrys them etc,

we used to have them in the wards at hospitals.but red tape stopped that....We need to use that resourse available and then that frees up those who need to do the "hands on care"

Its "red tape" and all this health and safety that stopped all that help.....age concern are trying to re implement it .....and its going great guns for those having the balls to use it.

So it was better in the "olden days" then?"

In some ways......definately

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you will find its the care agency who route the carer and not the social worker who decides the length of call.

I think you'll find it depends on who is doing the assessing and who is paying the costs."

The social worker will do an assessment for the service user. The costs normally come from the service user or the tax payer via the form of benefits.

We live in an political age where the social worker will do a needs led assessment which the service user will have to pay out of their direct payments.

The direct payments tend to be a lot less than back in the days when the social worker would do a service led assessment and then take the case to panel to get funding for the service user.

The government tend to dress it up in flowery jargon about choice, but it just hides the fact vulnerable people are getting less as their care is privatised and the council get to say its nothing to do with us.

The care agencies are part of the private system and will bid on care packages. They make money trying to provide the least amount of cost for profit.

Now if you want to blame social workers for something, they should be fighting for their service users to get more money and for the government to recognise they have a duty of care towards the vulnerable people they represent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having said that anyone who needs care and attention should get it, but don't blame the relatives automatically.

oh i know they are not all "lovely old dears" ive met some horrid ones over the years but what im on about basically is this.........

people re councils and government keep saying they are doing whats needed and they are not........simples.

Its a hard job and those with the money are making it harder and harder on those who have to care .

they pay peanuts to those intrusted with that care and then expect miracles.

It wont happen .

And its the consequenses of that , that scares me

Try running a ward in a NHS hospital...its not just people in the community that are suffering.

Are you saying Holby isn't a true reflection?

I hate to shatter your illusions......

Five years on an acute medical ward, no illusions to shatter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I was my mum's main carer for years. However, it got to breaking point when I damaged my back so badly I couldn't walk for 3 weeks. That was when we had to ask social services for help.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"15 minutes to go in as homecare and look after the elderly and vulnerable.

Bloody disgraceful way of treating those who have no choice and for the most have no visitors at all.

Some gauge a country on how it treats its elderly......

As a country , we should be ashamed.

I have a fantastic idea for you. Why not take one in as a lodger then you can be company for them and help them and it would also solve the bedroom tax thing you were on about a few weeks back.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I feel very frustrated because i cant do more, make it better for all those i looked after .....

It can be quite demoralising to be so inactive and useless,.

i wish i had a magic wand and make it all better , but i cant.

If thats what it is to care about those who cant shout very loud or dont want to be a nuisence ....

so be it.....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"15 minutes to go in as homecare and look after the elderly and vulnerable.

Bloody disgraceful way of treating those who have no choice and for the most have no visitors at all.

Some gauge a country on how it treats its elderly......

As a country , we should be ashamed.

I have a fantastic idea for you. Why not take one in as a lodger then you can be company for them and help them and it would also solve the bedroom tax thing you were on about a few weeks back. "

Thanks for nowt hal..........go back to ya ass whitening

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"15 minutes to go in as homecare and look after the elderly and vulnerable.

Bloody disgraceful way of treating those who have no choice and for the most have no visitors at all.

Some gauge a country on how it treats its elderly......

As a country , we should be ashamed.

I have a fantastic idea for you. Why not take one in as a lodger then you can be company for them and help them and it would also solve the bedroom tax thing you were on about a few weeks back.

Thanks for nowt hal..........go back to ya ass whitening

Why not its a positive direction I would if it was one of my things.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"15 minutes to go in as homecare and look after the elderly and vulnerable.

Bloody disgraceful way of treating those who have no choice and for the most have no visitors at all.

Some gauge a country on how it treats its elderly......

As a country , we should be ashamed.

I have a fantastic idea for you. Why not take one in as a lodger then you can be company for them and help them and it would also solve the bedroom tax thing you were on about a few weeks back.

Thanks for nowt hal..........go back to ya ass whitening

Why not its a positive direction I would if it was one of my things.

always one

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"15 minutes to go in as homecare and look after the elderly and vulnerable.

Bloody disgraceful way of treating those who have no choice and for the most have no visitors at all.

Some gauge a country on how it treats its elderly......

As a country , we should be ashamed.

I have a fantastic idea for you. Why not take one in as a lodger then you can be company for them and help them and it would also solve the bedroom tax thing you were on about a few weeks back.

Thanks for nowt hal..........go back to ya ass whitening

Why not its a positive direction I would if it was one of my things.

always one

What do you mean I was suggesting a win win outcome?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"15 minutes to go in as homecare and look after the elderly and vulnerable.

Bloody disgraceful way of treating those who have no choice and for the most have no visitors at all.

Some gauge a country on how it treats its elderly......

As a country , we should be ashamed.

I have a fantastic idea for you. Why not take one in as a lodger then you can be company for them and help them and it would also solve the bedroom tax thing you were on about a few weeks back.

Thanks for nowt hal..........go back to ya ass whitening

Why not its a positive direction I would if it was one of my things.

always one

What do you mean I was suggesting a win win outcome?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"15 minutes to go in as homecare and look after the elderly and vulnerable.

Bloody disgraceful way of treating those who have no choice and for the most have no visitors at all.

Some gauge a country on how it treats its elderly......

As a country , we should be ashamed.

I'm just curious to how much time you allocate to each visit then? Bearing in mind, there are only so many carers compared to the amount of people needing them!

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By *Kgirl80Woman
over a year ago

South Coast

I 'adopted' a Granny at my Nan's nursing home after she passed. The home set up the scheme a few years ago and it works brilliantly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I feel very frustrated because i cant do more, make it better for all those i looked after .....

It can be quite demoralising to be so inactive and useless,.

i wish i had a magic wand and make it all better , but i cant.

If thats what it is to care about those who cant shout very loud or dont want to be a nuisence ....

so be it.....

You have to let some of this go Peaches. If you have concerns then make use of whistle blowing policies and make sure you're uptodate with SOVA training, and make use of that if needed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why on earth should the financial burden be lumped on the taxpayer? I am happy to contribute to charities for the elderly when I can afford and that's how it should be along with families helping out as happened in the past. I really worry that people automatically think the state should do this and that where as it should really be family, friends and potentially neighbors that put themselves out.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Do you know what..........there will always be those who will argie the case of .....time versus carers etc and yes it a valid point.

Im afraid my only arguement at this point............comes from caring for those who need the most ...

so i will leave the logistics and all the other stuff to those better informed on that sort of stuff.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Do you know what..........there will always be those who will argie the case of .....time versus carers etc and yes it a valid point.

Im afraid my only arguement at this point............comes from caring for those who need the most ...

so i will leave the logistics and all the other stuff to those better informed on that sort of stuff.

oops. *argie" = argue

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I feel very frustrated because i cant do more, make it better for all those i looked after .....

It can be quite demoralising to be so inactive and useless,.

i wish i had a magic wand and make it all better , but i cant.

If thats what it is to care about those who cant shout very loud or dont want to be a nuisence ....

so be it.....

You have to let some of this go Peaches. If you have concerns then make use of whistle blowing policies and make sure you're uptodate with SOVA training, and make use of that if needed. "

very true

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"Do you know what..........there will always be those who will argie the case of .....time versus carers etc and yes it a valid point.

Im afraid my only arguement at this point............comes from caring for those who need the most ...

so i will leave the logistics and all the other stuff to those better informed on that sort of stuff.

"
Lots of people care but logistics ARE important, just don't judge people who cannot look after their relatives and devote as much time to them as you think they should.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Do you know what..........there will always be those who will argie the case of .....time versus carers etc and yes it a valid point.

Im afraid my only arguement at this point............comes from caring for those who need the most ...

so i will leave the logistics and all the other stuff to those better informed on that sort of stuff.

Lots of people care but logistics ARE important, just don't judge people who cannot look after their relatives and devote as much time to them as you think they should."

I dont ..or wouldnt

im just frustrated about my lack of being unable to help/assist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do you know what..........there will always be those who will argie the case of .....time versus carers etc and yes it a valid point.

Im afraid my only arguement at this point............comes from caring for those who need the most ...

so i will leave the logistics and all the other stuff to those better informed on that sort of stuff.

Lots of people care but logistics ARE important, just don't judge people who cannot look after their relatives and devote as much time to them as you think they should."

Speaks a lot of sense hear. She definitely won't make a good manager or even running the country, lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do you know what..........there will always be those who will argie the case of .....time versus carers etc and yes it a valid point.

Im afraid my only arguement at this point............comes from caring for those who need the most ...

so i will leave the logistics and all the other stuff to those better informed on that sort of stuff.

Lots of people care but logistics ARE important, just don't judge people who cannot look after their relatives and devote as much time to them as you think they should.

I dont ..or wouldnt

im just frustrated about my lack of being unable to help/assist

You can how many neighbors do you have within 100meters that are aged?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do you know what..........there will always be those who will argie the case of .....time versus carers etc and yes it a valid point.

Im afraid my only arguement at this point............comes from caring for those who need the most ...

so i will leave the logistics and all the other stuff to those better informed on that sort of stuff.

I'm sorry, but you started a thread and i only asked how much time you would allocate per visit! As i said, there are nly so many carers compared to the thousands of eldery, disabled and otherwise needy that need them!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do you know what..........there will always be those who will argie the case of .....time versus carers etc and yes it a valid point.

Im afraid my only arguement at this point............comes from caring for those who need the most ...

so i will leave the logistics and all the other stuff to those better informed on that sort of stuff.

Lots of people care but logistics ARE important, just don't judge people who cannot look after their relatives and devote as much time to them as you think they should.

I dont ..or wouldnt

im just frustrated about my lack of being unable to help/assist

I empathise but taking you work frustrations home with you serves who? Not you and not your clients.

It might be healthy to raise the issue of clinical supervision with your manager if you do not do this already.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you will find its the care agency who route the carer and not the social worker who decides the length of call.

I think you'll find it depends on who is doing the assessing and who is paying the costs.

The social worker will do an assessment for the service user. The costs normally come from the service user or the tax payer via the form of benefits.

We live in an political age where the social worker will do a needs led assessment which the service user will have to pay out of their direct payments.

The direct payments tend to be a lot less than back in the days when the social worker would do a service led assessment and then take the case to panel to get funding for the service user.

The care agencies are part of the private system and will bid on care packages. They make money trying to provide the least amount of cost for profit.

I stick to short paragraphs when using the phone

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"Why on earth should the financial burden be lumped on the taxpayer? I am happy to contribute to charities for the elderly when I can afford and that's how it should be along with families helping out as happened in the past. I really worry that people automatically think the state should do this and that where as it should really be family, friends and potentially neighbors that put themselves out."

They were also taxpayers. Many, if not most, having contributed way more than you at present. They aren't useless scroungers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not every old person has family or friends to help them though! What happens then? Leave them to rot?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They were also taxpayers. Many, if not most, having contributed way more than you at present. They aren't useless scroungers. "

So does that absolve them from getting off arse and visit the elderly that they are aware of?

And contributed way more than me? Really? You haven't an earthly clue what I contribute but that statement you made is complete rubbish.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" As i said, there are nly so many carers compared to the thousands of eldery, disabled and otherwise needy that need them!"

Which ties in with the examples I gave of how carers are not being taken serious or used to their best potential. If that is not addressed, the wages upped and the unions getting their act together, then the problem will never be solved, as there is no incentive to become a carer.

I agree families should be actively be involved with the care more often, but not everybody can cope with their parents' dementia or incontinence.

What they can do is stay in touch, take them out every now and then, bring the grandchildren...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not every old person has family or friends to help them though! What happens then? Leave them to rot?"

Bring back the workhouses for the poor, elderly and ill. Let each community support them as they once did in Dickens time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not every old person has family or friends to help them though! What happens then? Leave them to rot?

Bring back the workhouses for the poor, elderly and ill. Let each community support them as they once did in Dickens time.

Well I have 5 elderly neighbors in the street and 3 obf them single and in thier 80's. I wave at the window as I pass and pop into see all 3 at least once a fortnight if not more as I will give them a knock in Sunday and ask if they want a paper or anything. When it gets cold and icy I will ask them if they want anything from the shops and pop round for a natter. Its what I do I like all of them they have given me so much in knowledge from the past and see them now as more than just neighbors. Out of a matter of interest what do you do for yours?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

The situation will get worse. The cost of care and older people is a large part of the welfare bill and we're going to add to it.

There are schemes in London where younger people move in with older people at reduced rent and check on them twice a day at least 5 days a week. There aren't as many young people willing to do this as there are older people needing it.

I've been through the getting care for my aunt and my mother. I did what I could, my sister did what she could. My father had to deal with the bulk of it with my mother. She would hit me, go at him with knives and scissors, leave the cooker on and be difficult about getting dressed and undressed every day. That and my aunt going through MND at the same time meant me not earning a lot. I'm self employed but I couldn't be at a client and at all the hospital appointments.

I'm not cut out to care - let alone for people telling me that they hate me, which I got a lot from my mother and a bit from my aunt.

My aunt got full-time live in care for the last year of her life as she needed help with everything by then. We put Mum into a home. It may not seem like the right thing to do for some of you but the fact is that 7 people are not going mad and getting run down now that she is in a home. It's costing everything in cash terms but it's saving our health.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's lovely. Part of the rapport I have with my patients is getting them to recall yesteryear.

None of my neighbours are elderly.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Not every old person has family or friends to help them though! What happens then? Leave them to rot?

Bring back the workhouses for the poor, elderly and ill. Let each community support them as they once did in Dickens time.

I had an elderly neighbour that had lived in her house from birth to death. She had some distant relatives that would visit 2 or 3 times a year. I saw her every other day, shopped for her and gave her a chance to chat. She wouldn't let any of the other neighbours in though, and some did want to help.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not cut out to care - let alone for people telling me that they hate me, which I got a lot from my mother and a bit from my aunt.

Don't you dare allow yourself to be judged xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not every old person has family or friends to help them though! What happens then? Leave them to rot?

Bring back the workhouses for the poor, elderly and ill. Let each community support them as they once did in Dickens time.

The not letting in could quite as easily be for social services as neighbors and some make a half hearted effort. However helping out people who are in your immediate community is a natural thing it was the norm in the past.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I'm not cut out to care - let alone for people telling me that they hate me, which I got a lot from my mother and a bit from my aunt.

Don't you dare allow yourself to be judged xx"

I don't but the judgements are there on threads like this with comments that family should be doing the caring. It takes more than one person to provide 24 hour care, realistically, but that isn't always an option. Me giving up all of my work was not a viable option - someone has to earn and pay taxes to support all the other things. It has affected my career and I continue to feel the financial knock on of that time.

I am grateful to those who work in the care sector. We are all going to have to wise up that we have to pay for this. As I grow older and childless I won't have anyone to look after me, if I need help. That's a reality for many of us now.

The thing that does piss me off is an assumption that we can buy care for a cut price. The other thing is those that think the state should pay for everything as they have worked hard and their savings are for their children. It's not a given that you will get anything from your parents when they die. If they have savings these should be used to cover living costs first.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

They were also taxpayers. Many, if not most, having contributed way more than you at present. They aren't useless scroungers.

So does that absolve them from getting off arse and visit the elderly that they are aware of?

And contributed way more than me? Really? You haven't an earthly clue what I contribute but that statement you made is complete rubbish. "

I meant the elderly not their families. For example, both my parents left school and worked from the age of 14. If you take into account retirement (and both had paid into pension schemes so had provided for their own old age), then they had a combined pay in of around 80-90 years of tax and contributions. In fact my mother still paid income tax on her pensions to the day she died.

Furthermore she also paid for her care, her mobility van, and all the disabled adaptations to her house.

It cannot be assumed that all elderly are a financial drain. Mamy of them are paying for the seevices they get.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I'm disappointed but not too surprised to find this has deteriorated into a 'I care more than you' thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is about the report by Leonard Cheshire isn't it.

I work for them (I'm a senior acquired brain injury specialist) I got the report last week but I've still not read it yet!

Sadly its a common problem that's been going on for years...

Well, when 'senior' staff leave reports laying on the desk unread for over a week, doesn't exactly help with the situation does it? "

Tsk, its not on my desk its in mail email inbox!..

The reason I've not read it is because its something I deal with on a daily basis and nothing unusual. I'm also too busy fighting to assess people's needs properly and get adequate care packages in place to read a report telling me that adequate care packages are next to impossible to put onto place because of failings within the social services.

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By *aughty PedroMan
over a year ago

London

"My training was within social services and i worked with those with complex needs and the elderly.,

I also know, through experience there are great carers out there who do sterling work and i also have experienced really bad carers...

Those who leave an elderly lady 3 ft from her breakfast and she couldnt move to get it.

This happened several times until i put a complaint in,

She lived in appalling conditions with family literally "up the road"

I went in many times to find her "grandkids" and boyfriends on her phone and playing with expensive hoists etc.

I couldnt take it any more and asked my boss to call a meeting to discuss.

The outcome was getting "my elsie" into a nursing home and i visited every week until she died.

I fought tooth and nail for my old dears . every day if i had to.....

To give a little back to those who gave so much ............"

Big hug .. you have a beautiful heart.

you are what care in the community is all about.

I have an elderly mother of 87 and her carers are part of the family.. I live with my mother and know the demands can be quite difficult at times.. I feel so sorry for all those old people who have no one to care for them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having said that anyone who needs care and attention should get it, but don't blame the relatives automatically."

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By *uck_us_hardCouple
over a year ago

N.E Lincolnshire

I'm actually shocked at some of the comments in this thread and the lack of knowledge into the WHOLE picture! It's easy for people to have a knee jerk reaction but please think/research before you make comments that put down certain professions or none paid carers/family members. I'm a social worker and I'd love to be able to help some of you see how difficult a role it is especially when single minded people are against you as soon as you speak to them on the phone even! It's not as black and white as some of you may think....and we don't have 2 heads!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

" ..............! It's not as black and white as some of you may think....and we don't have 2 heads!

Some don't even seem to have 1 head, or at least one which works.

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By *uck_us_hardCouple
over a year ago

N.E Lincolnshire

" ..............! It's not as black and white as some of you may think....and we don't have 2 heads!

Some don't even seem to have 1 head, or at least one which works."

Then that is the fault of whoever gave these people a job or is responsible for training

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where i work a 15 min call is to give meds or make a sandwich only.

we have some people who on their 30 min call time just want to chat and thats fine.

I hope those who find it disgraceful realise social services are funding these calls and guess who funds social services..

now if only we could all be good neighbours/friends/family then the social needs of these vulnerable people would be well catered for....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are also plenty of people who dont want the carers hanging around once the tasks are done..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm disappointed but not too surprised to find this has deteriorated into a 'I care more than you' thread."

I simply see people who care and are frustrated by the "system".

People knock the public services and yet where would we be without them?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

The bit that hasn't been raised in this thread so far is the that of personal dignity of the person being cared for.

In the early days of her dementia my mother couldn't bear for family to be dealing with her intimate care needs and we didn't want to be doing it either. There was no one else though. She deteriorated faster, I think, because she had to submit to things she just didn't want. She was much more compliant when a carer, in that paid role, was helping her.

Similarly with my aunt. I hate that my memories of her include the pair of us feeling awful about the intimate care moments. It's one thing putting your aunt's socks on for her but quite another bathing and toileting her.

Yes, we complain about the dignity lost with carers but the dignity lost in a relationship can hurt more. For some.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"...........

I hope those who find it disgraceful realise social services are funding these calls and guess who funds social services..

..............."

We know who's funding it but who, specifically, is providing the service?

Local authority employees?

Employees of an arms length company or a wholly private company whose sole motivation is profit?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm actually shocked at some of the comments in this thread and the lack of knowledge into the WHOLE picture! It's easy for people to have a knee jerk reaction but please think/research before you make comments that put down certain professions or none paid carers/family members. I'm a social worker and I'd love to be able to help some of you see how difficult a role it is especially when single minded people are against you as soon as you speak to them on the phone even! It's not as black and white as some of you may think....and we don't have 2 heads!

I couldn't do it, quit on my second year as too hard

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...........

I hope those who find it disgraceful realise social services are funding these calls and guess who funds social services..

...............

We know who's funding it but who, specifically, is providing the service?

Local authority employees?

Employees of an arms length company or a wholly private company whose sole motivation is profit?"

The Social Services do not fund those with X amount of savings/income. Under these savings and above another amount is a tier/contribution towards costs.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

Why on earth would anyone begrudge the cost of elderly care? It beggars belief. This will be you one day. What happened to respect and dignity for the elderly?

You see it in the media - how they are a 'burden'. Shame on anyone who thinks so - shame, shame, shame.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is another point to this with regards to people needing care, they often begrudge paying for their own care and want their savings to be inherited by their children. It isn't always the children who are inheritance hungry. These elderly people have scrimped and scraped for a nest egg for their old age and yet in old age are reluctant to spend it. THEY believe the state should provide free (social) care because it provides free healthcare. Also because they are aware others get it for free. The problem is that if cares were not means tested then the pot of money for cares would run out faster than it is and we'd all be in shit street.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

That's not the case with many. And besides they have most likely contributed all their lives. What were they contributing for? The pittance of a pension?

And at the same time we can find the money for wars.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The cost to the country is enormous, sooner or later the debate may get around to value for money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That's not the case with many. And besides they have most likely contributed all their lives. What were they contributing for? The pittance of a pension?

And at the same time we can find the money for wars."

So you think it is irrelevant that couples have over £16,000, that they should protect that for their children and have the State provide free cares?

As for calling attention to finding money for wars, scale down that and imagine a house scenario - you need funds for security and funds for heating. Do you put all the funds into heating or do you apportion monies to both? With no security you may be robbed, raped or murdered, but that's fine cos you were warm whilst it occurred .

It may sound flippant but we do need monies for the country's defence (and I am not a supporter of war).

One final thing: we all contribute but not for our future but for our present. People's taxes and NI contributions are not a nest egg for our/their future cares.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"That's not the case with many. And besides they have most likely contributed all their lives. What were they contributing for? The pittance of a pension?

And at the same time we can find the money for wars.

So you think it is irrelevant that couples have over £16,000, that they should protect that for their children and have the State provide free cares?

It may sound flippant but we do need monies for the country's defence (and I am not a supporter of war).

One final thing: we all contribute but not for our future but for our present. People's taxes and NI contributions are not a nest egg for our/their future cares."

Your last point is the one that a lot of people don't get. OUR care will be paid for by the current youth. OUR contributions are paying for the current care system. It's a tax and not a savings scheme.

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