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Abortion Based On Gender

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By *radleyandRaven OP   Couple
over a year ago

Herts

I'm not sure why this bothered me so much but thought it would make an interesting topic for discussion.

So a woman on This Morning seems to think that women should be able to abort a child if that child is simply not of the sex they wanted... Also taking into account the possiblr pressure from certain cultures, groups or family that may consider a girl or boy to be of less importance.

This is not about women's rights to abort or not but the child's gender alone being the deciding factor as to whether they live or die.

I'm sure we've all heard about "designer babies" but surely this is taking it way too far? We all know the consequences of sex and pregnancy and surely the choices should be you either see the pregnancy to term or you don't, regardless of gender.

Did anyone else see it and if so, what do you have to say on the matter?

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

it is shocking

if the decision is only gender specific, they should have the baby then look at the wee soul in eyes and think 'wow, I was going to kill you' then hand it over into the arms of a loving childless couple and wish a great life for the baby.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know where this is heading ......

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By *each48Woman
over a year ago

coventry

Agree if all we get I'd one sex we die out as a race

It used to be a surprise when out popped baby now scans and tests take the mystery out of it

Wrong to abort because of sex next there will be a test for sexuality and looks - ill fail

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agreed. It's a life by the time you find out the sex.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.

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By *radleyandRaven OP   Couple
over a year ago

Herts


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know."

I guess not...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know."
better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

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By *ollie_JCouple
over a year ago

London

In our city they don't tell you the sex of the foetus during scans

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking "

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby."

I wish I could remember a post you did months ago because it didn't sound like you were nurturing in that one

Whilst I agree with abortion in some cases the idea of abortion because of gender is to me just awful.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know."

That's my gut feeling too. Often people have kids they don't want and end up destroying the poor child. It's the lesser of two evils. Bit difficult really. In an ideal world it wouldn't be an issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby."
I strongly disagee with you on that 3rd quote, which lasts a damn site longer than 9 months

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure why this bothered me so much but thought it would make an interesting topic for discussion.

So a woman on This Morning seems to think that women should be able to abort a child if that child is simply not of the sex they wanted... Also taking into account the possiblr pressure from certain cultures, groups or family that may consider a girl or boy to be of less importance.

This is not about women's rights to abort or not but the child's gender alone being the deciding factor as to whether they live or die.

I'm sure we've all heard about "designer babies" but surely this is taking it way too far? We all know the consequences of sex and pregnancy and surely the choices should be you either see the pregnancy to term or you don't, regardless of gender.

Did anyone else see it and if so, what do you have to say on the matter?"

I didn't see it. Babies are miracles and too many people don't understand that a pregnancy leads to a new human being, if that makes sense.

I don't think people should be able to choose gender, it should be for extreme cases only. But as per my other comment, if someone is going to destroy a child after it has been born, then that is an extreme case.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think abortions done of purely sex of a foetus are wrong ....think of all the cases where the sex has been told wrong ....i got told at 20 weeks i was having a girl ...30 weeks had to have emergency scan due to a fall to be told then i was having a boy ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am pro choice but this is way too far!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Giving birth when you don't know the sex of your child is like Christmas or a birthday. Waiting to see what you have been blessed with. I didn't see the program so have no idea why she wanted to choose the sex. Religion and cultural pressures discounted here as it isn't always the woman's choice but I can't think of any sane reason why a person would choose one sex over another. I suppose they may want what they might think is the perfect family

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep scans can be wrong I'm pro choice but feel this is a step in the wrong direction

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Is it better to permit termination on the grounds of gender or force unwilling Mothers to carry a baby to full term with the serious possibility their lack of enthusiasm for that task will result in the child being neglected, or worse?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby."
SOo if your son hypothetically speaking wasnt wanted would he have been better off not being granted the gift of life ...of course not ...pro choice is pro killing a human being

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby. SOo if your son hypothetically speaking wasnt wanted would he have been better off not being granted the gift of life ...of course not ...pro choice is pro killing a human being "

So what about abuse victims or people who got pregnant although using precautions who are not in a position to bring up a child or a minor ??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it better to permit termination on the grounds of gender or force unwilling Mothers to carry a baby to full term with the serious possibility their lack of enthusiasm for that task will result in the child being neglected, or worse?

"

I really struggle to believe that once a child is born the mother would be so disappointed she wouldn't be able to love it or even be neglectful. I was absolutely convinced I was having a girl and actually really wanted a girl. I found out the sex at 20 weeks and was not at all disappointed that I was having a boy, I loved my baby as soon as I found out I was pregnant. If women can't love their babies based on gender they shouldn't even be getting pregnant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby.

I wish I could remember a post you did months ago because it didn't sound like you were nurturing in that one

Whilst I agree with abortion in some cases the idea of abortion because of gender is to me just awful. "

Oh well maybe i wasnt in a nurturing mood when i posted a few months ago.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it better to permit termination on the grounds of gender or force unwilling Mothers to carry a baby to full term with the serious possibility their lack of enthusiasm for that task will result in the child being neglected, or worse?

I really struggle to believe that once a child is born the mother would be so disappointed she wouldn't be able to love it or even be neglectful. I was absolutely convinced I was having a girl and actually really wanted a girl. I found out the sex at 20 weeks and was not at all disappointed that I was having a boy, I loved my baby as soon as I found out I was pregnant. If women can't love their babies based on gender they shouldn't even be getting pregnant "

Have you read the news lately? There's some hideous 'mothers' out there.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Have you read the news lately? There's some hideous 'mothers' out there. "

Yep. There sure are.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby. SOo if your son hypothetically speaking wasnt wanted would he have been better off not being granted the gift of life ...of course not ...pro choice is pro killing a human being

So what about abuse victims or people who got pregnant although using precautions who are not in a position to bring up a child or a minor ??

"
Isaid abortion was pro killing i didnt say pro murder ..this forum shows how ambivalant some are toward human life ..endemic of a society ..in extreme cases of infirmity or rape then yes ..i am not for legislation to ban abortion but women should be encouraged to see out the term of a healthy feotus

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely if we start aborting babies based on sex, as a society we are going backwards rather than forwards.

Bringing in other cultures. .. in India it is against the law to find out the sex of the baby before it is born as so many women were having abortions (by choice or by force) because the child was female.

It's truly disgusting that people can be passive at the thought of aborting due to the sex of the child. Sometimes I feel like society has blurred its lines in scientific advancement and morality.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A woman should be able to have an abortion regardless of the reason why. Ultimately it is her choice and I'm my opinon bystanders should have no say in the matter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it better to permit termination on the grounds of gender or force unwilling Mothers to carry a baby to full term with the serious possibility their lack of enthusiasm for that task will result in the child being neglected, or worse?

I really struggle to believe that once a child is born the mother would be so disappointed she wouldn't be able to love it or even be neglectful. I was absolutely convinced I was having a girl and actually really wanted a girl. I found out the sex at 20 weeks and was not at all disappointed that I was having a boy, I loved my baby as soon as I found out I was pregnant. If women can't love their babies based on gender they shouldn't even be getting pregnant

Have you read the news lately? There's some hideous 'mothers' out there. "

Yes there are unfortunately but they are hideous mothers full stop. I'm talking about mothers who couldn't love their children because it was the wrong sex. I find it really difficult to believe that a mother wouldn't love their baby based purely on its gender. As i said, if they genuinely feel like that then they shouldn't be having any children.

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

lovely words of support were given to the 15 year old girl who has tried to take her life

I am offering the same words of support to a 15 week old girl whose life is to be ended because she is a girl, no other reason but being a girl

or boy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it better to permit termination on the grounds of gender or force unwilling Mothers to carry a baby to full term with the serious possibility their lack of enthusiasm for that task will result in the child being neglected, or worse?

I really struggle to believe that once a child is born the mother would be so disappointed she wouldn't be able to love it or even be neglectful. I was absolutely convinced I was having a girl and actually really wanted a girl. I found out the sex at 20 weeks and was not at all disappointed that I was having a boy, I loved my baby as soon as I found out I was pregnant. If women can't love their babies based on gender they shouldn't even be getting pregnant

Have you read the news lately? There's some hideous 'mothers' out there.

Yes there are unfortunately but they are hideous mothers full stop. I'm talking about mothers who couldn't love their children because it was the wrong sex. I find it really difficult to believe that a mother wouldn't love their baby based purely on its gender. As i said, if they genuinely feel like that then they shouldn't be having any children. "

I agree with you there. Especially your last sentence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An emotive post with no doubts some very strong opinions here. I'm pro choice but life isn't that black and white. Abortion is something that can haunt someone for life.

Choosing a baby based on gender isn't that complex, it's not done by a scan, scans can be wrong.

However just because it can be done doesn't mean it should be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A woman should be able to have an abortion regardless of the reason why. Ultimately it is her choice and I'm my opinon bystanders should have no say in the matter."

Bystanders make the laws. It's about what society finds acceptable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Giving birth when you don't know the sex of your child is like Christmas or a birthday. Waiting to see what you have been blessed with. I didn't see the program so have no idea why she wanted to choose the sex. Religion and cultural pressures discounted here as it isn't always the woman's choice but I can't think of any sane reason why a person would choose one sex over another. I suppose they may want what they might think is the perfect family"

Having a baby when you do know the sex is like having the best Christmas and birthday present too, it was for me anyway x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A woman should be able to have an abortion regardless of the reason why. Ultimately it is her choice and I'm my opinon bystanders should have no say in the matter."
is it really your right to kill a human being because that is what a feotus will become and because it is in the womb dosnt mean its exsistance is nt valid or its right to life not sacrosanct ...because a human life is metarmorphasising inside you should surely mean you have a moral obligation to bless that child with life ...i dont speak from a religious imperative but an innate sense of right and wrong that allows us all to further and proliferate our species

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A woman should be able to have an abortion regardless of the reason why. Ultimately it is her choice and I'm my opinon bystanders should have no say in the matter.is it really your right to kill a human being because that is what a feotus will become and because it is in the womb dosnt mean its exsistance is nt valid or its right to life not sacrosanct ...because a human life is metarmorphasising inside you should surely mean you have a moral obligation to bless that child with life ...i dont speak from a religious imperative but an innate sense of right and wrong that allows us all to further and proliferate our species "

Although I do see your point, you can't really say you're not speaking from a "religious imperative" and use Sacrosanct and Blessed as part of the reasons for not doing it.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"A woman should be able to have an abortion regardless of the reason why. Ultimately it is her choice and I'm my opinon bystanders should have no say in the matter.is it really your right to kill a human being because that is what a feotus will become and because it is in the womb dosnt mean its exsistance is nt valid or its right to life not sacrosanct ...because a human life is metarmorphasising inside you should surely mean you have a moral obligation to bless that child with life ...i dont speak from a religious imperative but an innate sense of right and wrong that allows us all to further and proliferate our species "

It's the 'will become' that causes the problem.

Were a foetus a human being, there'd be no abortion permitted at all.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I didn't see the inter_iew on This Morning but I seem to remember something about this in the press earlier this week.

I am pro-choice for lots of reasons but I find the idea of making a choice to abort based on gender really difficult to understand.

Chinese men are facing the problem of not enough women as a result of the one child rules and abortions based on gender. I have heard the same in some Asian communities.

Somehow, nature has a way of balancing out the gender supply.

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By *ands12Couple
over a year ago

north walsham

We would give an arm and a leg well any body part to be able to have a child of our own so for people being able to abort a child as its not the gender they want shocks me beyond belief if a mother is contemplating this then they should not be allowed to ever be a mother.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"We would give an arm and a leg well any body part to be able to have a child of our own so for people being able to abort a child as its not the gender they want shocks me beyond belief if a mother is contemplating this then they should not be allowed to ever be a mother. "

I too desperately wanted children but life doesn't always give us what we want. Sometimes that is a pregnancy that is not wanted. Sometimes it's the absence of a pregnancy that is not happening.

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By *ittle-Miss-NaughtyCouple
over a year ago

Worksop

My best friend was pressured into having a termination and regretted it so mych and still does, cant see why people would abort their own baby if they are able to support the baby and be good parents but wont because it isnt a boy or isnt a girl. Lots of women out their and men who cant have a child so i dont agree with it at all. I do however believe that it is down to the mother of the baby what she does

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm not sure why this bothered me so much but thought it would make an interesting topic for discussion.

So a woman on This Morning seems to think that women should be able to abort a child if that child is simply not of the sex they wanted"

That "this Morning" is getting out of hand...just going by the commentary I see on here.

If that is true I'm shocked.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I didn't see the inter_iew on This Morning but I seem to remember something about this in the press earlier this week.

I am pro-choice for lots of reasons but I find the idea of making a choice to abort based on gender really difficult to understand.

Chinese men are facing the problem of not enough women as a result of the one child rules and abortions based on gender. I have heard the same in some Asian communities.

Somehow, nature has a way of balancing out the gender supply."

Everyone seems to be pussyfooting around the facts that, in some societies/ cultures, women are

1) not seen as being as 'productive as men (in economic terms)' and

2) will require a substantial dowry to assist in getting rid of this ongoing burden.

The most recent numbers I can find suggest "an old and cruel story: the systematic elimination of girls in India. In the 2001 census, the sex ratio — the number of girls to every 1,000 boys — was 927 in the 0-6 age group. Preliminary data from the 2011 census show that the imbalance has worsened, to 914 girls for every 1,000 boys."

Nature is fighting a losing battle.

BTW, I reckon there are too many children being born. Both sexes. Everywhere.

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By * n zCouple
over a year ago

leamington spa

I don't agree with abortions based on a babies sex, unless it is because of some hereditary illness that affects just one sex..........although these days they can test embryos when they are just a bunch of cells to check for genetic problems through IVF and only implant the healthy ones.

A

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By *radleyandRaven OP   Couple
over a year ago

Herts

I'll admit that I imagine the worst and I know that women in some cultures feel that they or their child may be endangered if they're not the "right" sex but then surepy help and support should be offered rather than allowing a woman to go through with an abortion that she might not want. - Although if any woman wants it bad enough, they'll give ANY reason.

From a blind and non-cultural point of _iew though I can't help but wonder where that mentality ends... "I don't want this child because they have brown eyes and I wanted blue".

Specifically if you're trying for a child as well... Would you just have abortion after abortion until you get the sex you want?

I just don't get it. The whole thing has left my brain fried.

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By *radleyandRaven OP   Couple
over a year ago

Herts

*surely

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

its horrible aborting a baby just for the sex.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham


"I'll admit that I imagine the worst and I know that women in some cultures feel that they or their child may be endangered if they're not the "right" sex but then surepy help and support should be offered rather than allowing a woman to go through with an abortion that she might not want. - Although if any woman wants it bad enough, they'll give ANY reason.

From a blind and non-cultural point of _iew though I can't help but wonder where that mentality ends... "I don't want this child because they have brown eyes and I wanted blue".

Specifically if you're trying for a child as well... Would you just have abortion after abortion until you get the sex you want?

I just don't get it. The whole thing has left my brain fried.

"
Agreed. it's odd how many people seem to regard themselves as libertarians on here yet agree to something the Third Reich would have done.It's called selective breeding.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You do realise this is occurring but is illegal?

In England, Wales and Scotland, abortions are allowed before 24 weeks of pregnancy if it is believed that:

Continuing with the pregnancy would be a greater risk to the woman's life or physical or mental health than ending the pregnancy

Continuing with the pregnancy would be more of a risk to the physical or mental health of any of the woman's existing children

There is a real risk the unborn child would have a serious physical or mental disability

Two doctors have to agree to the abortion, or one in the case of an emergency.

"Abortion is already heavily regulated in the UK and sex selection is only allowed in very specific conditions such as in the case of hereditary disease as stated in the HFEA Act 2001. Doctors must work within the law."

These are excerpts from BBC News (health).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is a privilege to have a baby, not a right.

Of course its a womans body, and if the child isn't the sex she wants, have the baby and let someone who cant get pregnant or carry a child have the baby, there are 100's of women desperate for a child, an abortion of a healthy child seems such a waste.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am pro choice but due to medical advances I wish they would reduce the cut off age as 25-50% babies can survive outside the womb at 23-24 weeks.

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By *radleyandRaven OP   Couple
over a year ago

Herts


"I am pro choice but due to medical advances I wish they would reduce the cut off age as 25-50% babies can survive outside the womb at 23-24 weeks.

"

Yep, my best friend is one of them. x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think that an abortion so far into a pregnancy is wrong anyway (unless there is a risk to the life of the mother) so the gender of the child shouldn't be able to come into it for me. I am pro-choice, but I do think that choice should be made much earlier in the pregnancy, and certainly not because of gender

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By *ark Gr8 Teddy BearMan
over a year ago

Wigan

I think abortion is wrong for any reason other than the possibility of the mother and baby dying during pregnancy. Abortion is murder plain and simple. If you don't want to get pregnant use contraception. I get so angry hearing that women have aborted perfectly healthy babies. And I don't agree with this "her body her choice" rubbish. Its the babies body that's being murdered. I would say if you want an abortion fine then you get permanently sterilised so you can never get pregnant again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think abortion is wrong for any reason other than the possibility of the mother and baby dying during pregnancy. Abortion is murder plain and simple. If you don't want to get pregnant use contraception. I get so angry hearing that women have aborted perfectly healthy babies. And I don't agree with this "her body her choice" rubbish. Its the babies body that's being murdered. I would say if you want an abortion fine then you get permanently sterilised so you can never get pregnant again."

Says a man!

What are your _iews on the death penalty and euthanasia?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think abortion is wrong for any reason other than the possibility of the mother and baby dying during pregnancy. Abortion is murder plain and simple. If you don't want to get pregnant use contraception. I get so angry hearing that women have aborted perfectly healthy babies. And I don't agree with this "her body her choice" rubbish. Its the babies body that's being murdered. I would say if you want an abortion fine then you get permanently sterilised so you can never get pregnant again."

You do know that no contraception is 100% effective don't you...only way to not get pregnant (or get someone pregnant) is to not have sex. I have the implant and use condoms, but there is still a chance I could get pregnant...a tiny chance but it's still there. I don't think I could go through with an abortion to be honest even though I don't want children, but I would like the choice to be there should I ever need to, especially considering I'd most likely have to raise the child completely by myself as I doubt I'd be able to identify the daddy, and if I did I don't think the CSA could track down a fab user name.

Also, what about women who get raped? Or may not die but could have serious physical after effects? Or who just know that they couldn't give a child the love and support it would need. I know there is the adoption route, but not all children get adopted regardless of how many out there want to adopt

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

[Removed by poster at 21/09/13 13:47:43]

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I think abortion is wrong for any reason other than the possibility of the mother and baby dying during pregnancy. Abortion is murder plain and simple. If you don't want to get pregnant use contraception. I get so angry hearing that women have aborted perfectly healthy babies. And I don't agree with this "her body her choice" rubbish. Its the babies body that's being murdered. I would say if you want an abortion fine then you get permanently sterilised so you can never get pregnant again."

It's not an easy decision to make to have an abortion. Many live with the emotional pain of it for years. It's not always the woman's choice either. Even with contraception you can sometimes fall pregnant (twice in my case).

You believe abortion is murder and that's fine but it's not fine to then suggest that permanent sterilisation should be forced on a woman. I know the 'it's my opinion' line will be be trotted out and I grateful that legislators don't think like you.

Finally, riled enough now to think if your suggestion of sterilisation for women should extend to the men that get them pregnant, walk away and leave the mother and baby? Or for the men that coerce women into abortions?

Do men even know how many children they have created that may have been lost to early miscarriage or a decision to abort? Probably not because when push comes to shove it is our bodies as women that have to deal with this and we have to take the fall out, the vitriol and the sheer narrow minded hypocrisy of men.

I know men who would have liked to keep the child and the woman made the decision against their wishes. That's not easy either and I have every sympathy for those men and the effect it has on their lives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think abortion is wrong for any reason other than the possibility of the mother and baby dying during pregnancy. Abortion is murder plain and simple. If you don't want to get pregnant use contraception. I get so angry hearing that women have aborted perfectly healthy babies. And I don't agree with this "her body her choice" rubbish. Its the babies body that's being murdered. I would say if you want an abortion fine then you get permanently sterilised so you can never get pregnant again.

It's not an easy decision to make to have an abortion. Many live with the emotional pain of it for years. It's not always the woman's choice either. Even with contraception you can sometimes fall pregnant (twice in my case).

You believe abortion is murder and that's fine but it's not fine to then suggest that permanent sterilisation should be forced on a woman. I know the 'it's my opinion' line will be be trotted out and I grateful that legislators don't think like you.

Finally, riled enough now to think if your suggestion of sterilisation for women should extend to the men that get them pregnant, walk away and leave the mother and baby? Or for the men that coerce women into abortions?

Do men even know how many children they have created that may have been lost to early miscarriage or a decision to abort? Probably not because when push comes to shove it is our bodies as women that have to deal with this and we have to take the fall out, the vitriol and the sheer narrow minded hypocrisy of men.

I know men who would have liked to keep the child and the woman made the decision against their wishes. That's not easy either and I have every sympathy for those men and the effect it has on their lives.

"

I love this post

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wouldnt like to have had to had an abortion not a nice experience i shouldnt think, you could have a miscarriage and not even know it, just that you have a late period which is heavier than usual.

i watched a program about a woman who had an early abortion and you couldnt see the feotus it was just like a normal period, also seen on televison about a women having late abortions and that was very disturbing.

I dont agree with people who try to make women feel guilty for having abortions, i think its their bodies their choice, being pregnant, giving birth especialy if your not married can be a very frightening experience for some women and they cant cope with it.

If youre a man or a woman who hasnt had a lot of problems to do with being pregnant then i wouldnt expect you to understand and we arent all the same, some people cope with things that other people cant.

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By *ark Gr8 Teddy BearMan
over a year ago

Wigan

I know exactly how many children I've fathered. The answer is none. I've always used protection and if I've not had it I've not had sex. I do think if a man does get a woman pregnant he should have to be involved in that child's life. And a lot of men could do with being sterilised. But whichever way you look at it abortion is murder. Its killing a living being. A miscarriage is a terrible shame but its not an act of murder. And as for getting "caught" when on the pill etc. Well use the pill and a condom. No glove no love.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know exactly how many children I've fathered. The answer is none. I've always used protection and if I've not had it I've not had sex. I do think if a man does get a woman pregnant he should have to be involved in that child's life. And a lot of men could do with being sterilised. But whichever way you look at it abortion is murder. Its killing a living being. A miscarriage is a terrible shame but its not an act of murder. And as for getting "caught" when on the pill etc. Well use the pill and a condom. No glove no love. "

So then no, you don't know that there isn't a single method of contraception that is 100% effective, even when combined with another method. The odds may reduce but there is still a chance of getting pregnant when using a hormonal contraceptive and a barrier method.

And I'm sure the women who have aborted a child after being raped would love the additional guilt of being labelled a murderer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know exactly how many children I've fathered. The answer is none. I've always used protection and if I've not had it I've not had sex. I do think if a man does get a woman pregnant he should have to be involved in that child's life. And a lot of men could do with being sterilised. But whichever way you look at it abortion is murder. Its killing a living being. A miscarriage is a terrible shame but its not an act of murder. And as for getting "caught" when on the pill etc. Well use the pill and a condom. No glove no love. "

Come on... Euthanasia and the death penalty, your _iews!

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By *ark Gr8 Teddy BearMan
over a year ago

Wigan


"I know exactly how many children I've fathered. The answer is none. I've always used protection and if I've not had it I've not had sex. I do think if a man does get a woman pregnant he should have to be involved in that child's life. And a lot of men could do with being sterilised. But whichever way you look at it abortion is murder. Its killing a living being. A miscarriage is a terrible shame but its not an act of murder. And as for getting "caught" when on the pill etc. Well use the pill and a condom. No glove no love.

Come on... Euthanasia and the death penalty, your _iews!"

I disagree with both. The death penalty is too easy a way out for those that would deserve it. And euthanasia well mandatory euthanasia, who's to say how old you should be when you die. And again both are murder. Assisted suicide is a difficult 1 though as it's a person making their own choice to die. As long as its done right and has witnesses to prove it was assisted and not just murder I don't see why not.

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By *ark Gr8 Teddy BearMan
over a year ago

Wigan


"I know exactly how many children I've fathered. The answer is none. I've always used protection and if I've not had it I've not had sex. I do think if a man does get a woman pregnant he should have to be involved in that child's life. And a lot of men could do with being sterilised. But whichever way you look at it abortion is murder. Its killing a living being. A miscarriage is a terrible shame but its not an act of murder. And as for getting "caught" when on the pill etc. Well use the pill and a condom. No glove no love.

So then no, you don't know that there isn't a single method of contraception that is 100% effective, even when combined with another method. The odds may reduce but there is still a chance of getting pregnant when using a hormonal contraceptive and a barrier method.

And I'm sure the women who have aborted a child after being raped would love the additional guilt of being labelled a murderer."

Having sex means there is a risk of pregnancy. You don't want to get pregnant then don't have sex. And yes women who have been raped who abort their child are murderers. Its not the babys fault that they got raped. I'm not saying its the womens fault either. But why take it out on a perfectly innocent baby. And heres one you'll love. If I was in a relationship and my partner got pregnant and she aborted my child I'd make damn sure she joined it. After all as long as I say I just aborted her its legal right?

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn


" If I was in a relationship and my partner got pregnant and she aborted my child I'd make damn sure she joined it. After all as long as I say I just aborted her its legal right?"

In my many years on this forum, that has got to be the dumbest comment I have ever read.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know exactly how many children I've fathered. The answer is none. I've always used protection and if I've not had it I've not had sex. I do think if a man does get a woman pregnant he should have to be involved in that child's life. And a lot of men could do with being sterilised. But whichever way you look at it abortion is murder. Its killing a living being. A miscarriage is a terrible shame but its not an act of murder. And as for getting "caught" when on the pill etc. Well use the pill and a condom. No glove no love.

So then no, you don't know that there isn't a single method of contraception that is 100% effective, even when combined with another method. The odds may reduce but there is still a chance of getting pregnant when using a hormonal contraceptive and a barrier method.

And I'm sure the women who have aborted a child after being raped would love the additional guilt of being labelled a murderer.

Having sex means there is a risk of pregnancy. You don't want to get pregnant then don't have sex. And yes women who have been raped who abort their child are murderers. Its not the babys fault that they got raped. I'm not saying its the womens fault either. But why take it out on a perfectly innocent baby. And heres one you'll love. If I was in a relationship and my partner got pregnant and she aborted my child I'd make damn sure she joined it. After all as long as I say I just aborted her its legal right?"

A pathetic sentiment but fortunately the law would convict you .

Whether you like the laws of the land or not, you do have to abide by them.

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By *ark Gr8 Teddy BearMan
over a year ago

Wigan

Exactly so why is the murder of an innocent child not wrong? Why is 1 type of murder different to another? If my partner murdered my child but called it abortion why couldn't I do the same to her and just say well its abortion. Whatever you say abortion is morally wrong and should be criminally wrong. Murder is murder. And now I'm dropping the subject as its obvious we just have hugely differing opinions and its not going to be settled.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Exactly so why is the murder of an innocent child not wrong? Why is 1 type of murder different to another? If my partner murdered my child but called it abortion why couldn't I do the same to her and just say well its abortion. Whatever you say abortion is morally wrong and should be criminally wrong. Murder is murder. And now I'm dropping the subject as its obvious we just have hugely differing opinions and its not going to be settled."

Because abortion is legal, murder is illegal

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

To the poster above - who seems to be saying that abortion is murder:

that's not what our society _iews it as, it's just your _iewpoint.

It is a woman's right to chose. If we make people have to go jumping through hoops to get it done, then it could result likely in more back street abortions, potentially harming health even more.

If people are forbidden to say they want an abortion because of x, then they will just use reason y. It seems very sad that the gender of their foetus would influence someone to have an abortion, but it's still a woman's choice. She would say it's due to other justification, if she is determined to get an abortion, if services prevented this being discussed etc.

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By *radleyandRaven OP   Couple
over a year ago

Herts


"And heres one you'll love. If I was in a relationship and my partner got pregnant and she aborted my child I'd make damn sure she joined it."

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby.

I wish I could remember a post you did months ago because it didn't sound like you were nurturing in that one

Whilst I agree with abortion in some cases the idea of abortion because of gender is to me just awful. "

Couldn't give too hoots about people suffering only animals.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"Is it better to permit termination on the grounds of gender or force unwilling Mothers to carry a baby to full term with the serious possibility their lack of enthusiasm for that task will result in the child being neglected, or worse?

I really struggle to believe that once a child is born the mother would be so disappointed she wouldn't be able to love it or even be neglectful. I was absolutely convinced I was having a girl and actually really wanted a girl. I found out the sex at 20 weeks and was not at all disappointed that I was having a boy, I loved my baby as soon as I found out I was pregnant. If women can't love their babies based on gender they shouldn't even be getting pregnant "

Welcome! We don't get many extra terrestrials here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know exactly how many children I've fathered. The answer is none. I've always used protection and if I've not had it I've not had sex. I do think if a man does get a woman pregnant he should have to be involved in that child's life. And a lot of men could do with being sterilised. But whichever way you look at it abortion is murder. Its killing a living being. A miscarriage is a terrible shame but its not an act of murder. And as for getting "caught" when on the pill etc. Well use the pill and a condom. No glove no love.

So then no, you don't know that there isn't a single method of contraception that is 100% effective, even when combined with another method. The odds may reduce but there is still a chance of getting pregnant when using a hormonal contraceptive and a barrier method.

And I'm sure the women who have aborted a child after being raped would love the additional guilt of being labelled a murderer.

Having sex means there is a risk of pregnancy. You don't want to get pregnant then don't have sex. And yes women who have been raped who abort their child are murderers. Its not the babys fault that they got raped. I'm not saying its the womens fault either. But why take it out on a perfectly innocent baby. And heres one you'll love. If I was in a relationship and my partner got pregnant and she aborted my child I'd make damn sure she joined it. After all as long as I say I just aborted her its legal right?"

Wow...there are no words, just wow! I do hope you make that clear to every woman you have sex with (whether protected or not) as like you have acknowledged, having sex brings a risk of pregnancy...brings a whole new meaning to having safe sex

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it better to permit termination on the grounds of gender or force unwilling Mothers to carry a baby to full term with the serious possibility their lack of enthusiasm for that task will result in the child being neglected, or worse?

I really struggle to believe that once a child is born the mother would be so disappointed she wouldn't be able to love it or even be neglectful. I was absolutely convinced I was having a girl and actually really wanted a girl. I found out the sex at 20 weeks and was not at all disappointed that I was having a boy, I loved my baby as soon as I found out I was pregnant. If women can't love their babies based on gender they shouldn't even be getting pregnant

Welcome! We don't get many extra terrestrials here. "

Excuse me?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby.

I wish I could remember a post you did months ago because it didn't sound like you were nurturing in that one

Whilst I agree with abortion in some cases the idea of abortion because of gender is to me just awful.

Couldn't give too hoots about people suffering only animals. "

Oh so you know me do you.

Why not just say you are pro life?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


" If I was in a relationship and my partner got pregnant and she aborted my child I'd make damn sure she joined it. After all as long as I say I just aborted her its legal right?

In my many years on this forum, that has got to be the dumbest comment I have ever read....."

And offensive in the extreme.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby.

I wish I could remember a post you did months ago because it didn't sound like you were nurturing in that one

Whilst I agree with abortion in some cases the idea of abortion because of gender is to me just awful.

Couldn't give too hoots about people suffering only animals. "

Yes i did say i care more about animals than i do people, its different when its your own though isnt it?

own hubby and son i mean, some people dont even care about them much though.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Abortion rights are hard fought for, and must remain in place, for the safety of females. In some countries, 50% of female deaths occur due to non-regulated abortions, and so abortion rights are as far as I am concerned, an absolutely essential component of the rights that females must have. (Trends in Midwifery, Bak et al).

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By *ark Gr8 Teddy BearMan
over a year ago

Wigan


" If I was in a relationship and my partner got pregnant and she aborted my child I'd make damn sure she joined it. After all as long as I say I just aborted her its legal right?

In my many years on this forum, that has got to be the dumbest comment I have ever read.....

And offensive in the extreme."

and taken out of context.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For me personally having a fit and healthy child is my only priority, with so many things that can go wrong in a pregnancy i would have thought what sex your child was would be the least of your worries, guess we are all different tho

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For me personally having a fit and healthy child is my only priority, with so many things that can go wrong in a pregnancy i would have thought what sex your child was would be the least of your worries, guess we are all different tho "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby."

This is a very insensitive comment to men. Sure men don't know what its like to be pregnant or give birth but to dismiss them as loving parents is hurtful. So many women want men to be caring loving fathers but only if they decided they want to be mothers. I am not going to debate the abortion issue here but my heart goes out to those men who would fight dearly for their children because they truely have no choice and never will.

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By *ark Gr8 Teddy BearMan
over a year ago

Wigan


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby.

This is a very insensitive comment to men. Sure men don't know what its like to be pregnant or give birth but to dismiss them as loving parents is hurtful. So many women want men to be caring loving fathers but only if they decided they want to be mothers. I am not going to debate the abortion issue here but my heart goes out to those men who would fight dearly for their children because they truely have no choice and never will."

I would go through the pain of child birth and be thankful for the opportunity to be a parent anyday.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Exactly so why is the murder of an innocent child not wrong? Why is 1 type of murder different to another? If my partner murdered my child but called it abortion why couldn't I do the same to her and just say well its abortion. Whatever you say abortion is morally wrong and should be criminally wrong. Murder is murder. And now I'm dropping the subject as its obvious we just have hugely differing opinions and its not going to be settled."

Unfortunately this is the only situation where two peoples rights cannot be separated and addressed. To me the issue is whos rights take presidence?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Abortion is not murder, if it was women who had it done would be tried and convicted in a court of law ergo abortion is legal.

One or two on here may well have strong moral _iews on the matter but in the eyes if the Law no crime has been committed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My "babies" are 26 and 23. Had baby scans but no pics from them. I knew I was having a boy first time, not by being told but could see the umbilical cord and his penis. 2nd time round, I wanted a girl and that's what I got. Would have loved scan pics but there we go.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My "babies" are 26 and 23. Had baby scans but no pics from them. I knew I was having a boy first time, not by being told but could see the umbilical cord and his penis. 2nd time round, I wanted a girl and that's what I got. Would have loved scan pics but there we go. "
dozy cow, I posted before I finished. Females don't choose the sex of the baby, the man does. Personally, for me I wouldn't have a abortion

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By *ogistical NightmaresCouple
over a year ago

Manchester Area


"Its not very fair is it, but life isnt fair anyway. i think its better than having a child you dont really want, not much fun growing up knowing you werent really wanted because most people know.better to be exterminated than knowing you werent wanted? I am pro life and carry the guilt of allowing a previous girlfriend to have a termination will haunt me ...to hear women being sanguine about abortion ..women are supposedely nurturers is shocking

well im very nurturing, i have a hubby, son and little dog, i just happen to be pro choice. youre a man so you have no idea what its like to be pregnant, give birth and be responsible for your baby.

I wish I could remember a post you did months ago because it didn't sound like you were nurturing in that one

Whilst I agree with abortion in some cases the idea of abortion because of gender is to me just awful.

Couldn't give too hoots about people suffering only animals.

Oh so you know me do you.

Why not just say you are pro life?"

So if your dog was female and was ill and you were told that to save it's life you had to abort tghe pups, what would you do as an animal lover

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am pro choice but due to medical advances I wish they would reduce the cut off age as 25-50% babies can survive outside the womb at 23-24 weeks.

"

They need to reduce the time by a few weeks at the very least. Unless the baby is very seriously disabled and unlikely to survive being born it's just totally wrong.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham


"I am pro choice but due to medical advances I wish they would reduce the cut off age as 25-50% babies can survive outside the womb at 23-24 weeks.

They need to reduce the time by a few weeks at the very least. Unless the baby is very seriously disabled and unlikely to survive being born it's just totally wrong. "
Would this lead to people having abortions because their baby wouldn't have blue eyes, blonde hair etc? It's really not much different really.Third Reich mentality I'm afriad.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

[Removed by poster at 21/09/13 22:37:10]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am pro choice but due to medical advances I wish they would reduce the cut off age as 25-50% babies can survive outside the womb at 23-24 weeks.

They need to reduce the time by a few weeks at the very least. Unless the baby is very seriously disabled and unlikely to survive being born it's just totally wrong. Would this lead to people having abortions because their baby wouldn't have blue eyes, blonde hair etc? It's really not much different really.Third Reich mentality I'm afriad."

Your post and the ones you quoted don't correlate.

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Merton

choice will create selective babies especially in some Asian and Africa countries

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am pro choice but due to medical advances I wish they would reduce the cut off age as 25-50% babies can survive outside the womb at 23-24 weeks.

They need to reduce the time by a few weeks at the very least. Unless the baby is very seriously disabled and unlikely to survive being born it's just totally wrong. Would this lead to people having abortions because their baby wouldn't have blue eyes, blonde hair etc? It's really not much different really.Third Reich mentality I'm afriad."

Eh???? That's not what I said.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

That's the trouble with the abortion 'debate'.

It banishes sense and inserts dogma.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

I admit I'm pro choice and despite not having had an abortion or able to have children of my own I still believe its a woman's choice to have one if that's the best thing for her. I'm sure for many it's not a decision taken lightly and likely one of the hardest things they've had to come to terms with!!

However in the cases of abortion for gender selection I am very much against it and I feel that no one should have the option to know the sex of the child before it's born unless they are carriers of an illness which is gender specific. I know a lot of hospitals won't tell the sex of the baby but it should become a regulation that it's not given by any!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am pro choice but due to medical advances I wish they would reduce the cut off age as 25-50% babies can survive outside the womb at 23-24 weeks.

They need to reduce the time by a few weeks at the very least. Unless the baby is very seriously disabled and unlikely to survive being born it's just totally wrong. Would this lead to people having abortions because their baby wouldn't have blue eyes, blonde hair etc? It's really not much different really.Third Reich mentality I'm afriad.

Eh???? That's not what I said."

Bobbyggg quoted you. It's his post that makes no sense following ours.

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