FabSwingers.com forum: The "professionals" who failed Daniel Pelka

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Teachers, health workers, social workers and police officers treated four-year-old Daniel Pelka as if he was invisible, failing to prevent his mother and stepfather from murdering him after a campaign of torture and starvation

Dozens of opportunities to intervene were missed.

Social workers - "professionals", too eager to listen to him mum's excuses, and none actually asking Daniel about his homelife.

Teachers - "professionals", witnessing the visible decline of a small boy becoming more emaciated and doing nothing. Weighing a stone-and-a-half at the time of his death. None actually asking Daniel about his hunger and stealing food.

"Professionals" seeing him come to school with bruises and not asking him why he was marked.

All the "professionals" are sorry that they could never have guessed an emaciated, bruised little boy might be at risk.

But don't worry.

Lessons have been learned.

So that's OK then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Totally breaks my heart

A x

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I should of course has stressed that no "professional" actually killed Daniel. That was purely his mum and stepdad. Their responsibility 100%.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Excellent post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

need more perceptive people in roles like that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shameful, The whole thing stinks , those people who failed him should be ashamed of themselves , sadly one thing is for sure ..it will happen again...as for his ' guardians ' ...pffff

...R.I.P young man .

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By *RYBBWCouple
over a year ago

Leeds.

"Lessons have been learned" is what we hear every time something like this happens. Baby P comes to mind. So obviously lessons have not been learned. As for the "professionals" who missed all the signs, they should either be re-trained or sacked.

His parents can just go to hell.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

An extremely sad case indeed but this was a highly unusual case with 2 other children being care for well and little daniel being scapegoated.

Having read the actual serious case review it all boils down to the same thing within many previous high profile case reviews - lack of signs of abuse training in professionals such as teachers and healthcare workers, lack of experienced sw staff with manageable case loads, lack of health visitors so checks are less likely carries out in the home and lack of communication of all professionals.

And of course the final thing is the vile people who cannot be called parents who actually carried out this atrocity have the final blame laid at their feet solely!!!

Sadly child abusers know how to hide it and are very manipulative

RIP little man

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

In a nation of more than 60 million people we will never stop all child killings.

However each case we hear about seems to revolve around so-called experts not believing the evidence of their own eyes and being too eager to accept the word of parents who are obviously leading chaotic lives.

There often also seems to be no straightforward system for a concerned teacher/ social worker/police officer/ health worker to alert other agencies about their concerns.

The last point might well be a deliberate design descision by the most senior management to avoid overloading their own little fiefdom. In other words let another department cop for the blame if the shit hits the fan.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

"" As for the "professionals" who missed all the signs, they should either be re-trained or sacked."

Have you never made an error at work without being sacked I know I sure have but sadly some errors can have different outcomes. It's not about sacking people it's about looking what needs to be put in place to prevent it happening again. Read the actual review this is not down to any one professional it's a lots of small concerns that needed to be brought together to paint a bigger picture and that's the problem.

He was failed that fact I have no doubt of but the most sad fact is no amount of training or sackings of professionals will prevent this happening again as there will always be evil monsters who will hurt children.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

"There often also seems to be no straightforward system for a concerned teacher/ social worker/police officer/ health worker to alert other agencies about their concerns. "

Every single one of those agencies will have a child protection officer which any staff member can go to if they have suspicions who should alert their local social services. The problem is many of them outside of social services aren't trained enough to join the dots when it comes to spotting signs of child abuse!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""Lessons have been learned" is what we hear every time something like this happens. Baby P comes to mind. So obviously lessons have not been learned. As for the "professionals" who missed all the signs, they should either be re-trained or sacked.

Can only fully agree.

" His parents can just go to hell."

DISGRACEFUL. Absolutely disgraceful. This poor kids FATHER had nothing to do with this and his role was probably reduced and excluded by the actions of both the mother and "social services". All to common.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

s/b all TOO common

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

@VeryBigGirl Please see my posting above yours. It's a fact we will never rid ourselves of such tragedies but a recurring theme of the cases we know about is people trained to spot abuse refusing to acknowledge what their eyes (and doubtless often their instinct) is telling them.

And seriously, the phrase "lessons have been learned" has become a great big F-You to the public who are outraged at these cases.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

You don't need training to see a child who is stealing other children's food and eating scraps is in desperate trouble. Look at his weight (or lack of it) for God's sake.Usual Local Authority employee attitude...ignore the problem because addressing it is too much like work.Disgraceful episode. Poor little mite. R I P.

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By *lentyoffun40Couple
over a year ago

Lancashire

As a professional in this area

I agree that it's atrocious and can't believe that this as happened again

Victoria climbie

Baby p and now this poor little child

seeing neglect and abuse cases on a daily basis and working with the kids who are still in the family home I am at a loss to think how this neglect and torture has been missed by so many people

I just can't answer that

Again , yes the professionals involved have a lot to answer for they get paid well so should be held to account for their part

However lets not forget the scumbags who did this are totally to blame

Failings in the system are clear to see

But lets not miss how evil these 2 are

Cuts in social care , support workers

Social work case loads at all time highs certainly doesn't help the situation

When you start to make cuts at the front line "unfortunately" ( sounds cold) there will be cases like this that are missed

What's needed is more social workers and people supporting them

Less red tape and endless paperwork and more social workers with more time to make home visits

This government needs to stop pumping money elsewhere and lets get this system for children and young people better

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"As a professional in this area

I agree that it's atrocious and can't believe that this as happened again

Victoria climbie

Baby p and now this poor little child

seeing neglect and abuse cases on a daily basis and working with the kids who are still in the family home I am at a loss to think how this neglect and torture has been missed by so many people

I just can't answer that

Again , yes the professionals involved have a lot to answer for they get paid well so should be held to account for their part

However lets not forget the scumbags who did this are totally to blame

Failings in the system are clear to see

But lets not miss how evil these 2 are

Cuts in social care , support workers

Social work case loads at all time highs certainly doesn't help the situation

When you start to make cuts at the front line "unfortunately" ( sounds cold) there will be cases like this that are missed

What's needed is more social workers and people supporting them

Less red tape and endless paperwork and more social workers with more time to make home visits

This government needs to stop pumping money elsewhere and lets get this system for children and young people better "
But the teachers and social workers saw this. They were aware. Nothing to do with cuts just bone idle employees.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Daniels Father had nothing to do with the poor souls death. It was the mother and her bf! They were able to keep the 'proffesionals' at arms length due to fact that they worked the system. Abusive bastards like this will always be able to work the system due to the fact that 'proffesionals' don't have the backing of their superiors until its too late.

Lets put the blame squarely on the monsters that perpetrated this horrible crime, THE MOTHER AND BF!

R.IP. Daniel.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

"@VeryBigGirl Please see my posting above yours. It's a fact we will never rid ourselves of such tragedies but a recurring theme of the cases we know about is people trained to spot abuse refusing to acknowledge what their eyes (and doubtless often their instinct) is telling them.

And seriously, the phrase "lessons have been learned" has become a great big F-You to the public who are outraged at these cases."

I totally agree with you on many levels however believe me gut instinct is very very hard to evidence and i know that personally. Its not always a case of believing the parents it's about building that portfolio of evidence to gather enough to meet the courts threshold as despite being seen as child snatchers social workers have no jurisdiction to remove any child from any situation without a court order. Only the police can remove a child under a police protection order and again only with enough evidence!!

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By *lentyoffun40Couple
over a year ago

Lancashire

Yes I completely agree with you

And like I say I can't believe this happened

In terms if the cuts to services

What I'm saying is that to ensure this doesn't happen again we have to recruit more social workers and give them smaller caseloads

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

"Daniels Father had nothing to do with the poor souls death. It was the mother and her bf! They were able to keep the 'proffesionals' at arms length due to fact that they worked the system. Abusive bastards like this will always be able to work the system due to the fact that 'proffesionals' don't have the backing of their superiors until its too late.

Lets put the blame squarely on the monsters that perpetrated this horrible crime, THE MOTHER AND BF!

R.IP. Daniel."

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

"Yes I completely agree with you

And like I say I can't believe this happened

In terms if the cuts to services

What I'm saying is that to ensure this doesn't happen again we have to recruit more social workers and give them smaller caseloads"

Exactly ! 37 hours in the working week and most social workers hold cases of 50+ families. You do the maths

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By *lentyoffun40Couple
over a year ago

Lancashire

"Yes I completely agree with you

And like I say I can't believe this happened

In terms if the cuts to services

What I'm saying is that to ensure this doesn't happen again we have to recruit more social workers and give them smaller caseloads

Exactly ! 37 hours in the working week and most social workers hold cases of 50+ families. You do the maths

I'm with you !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No mention of neighbours, family...

Easy to point the finger from afar especially if you've never been in the situation.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"Yes I completely agree with you

And like I say I can't believe this happened

In terms if the cuts to services

What I'm saying is that to ensure this doesn't happen again we have to recruit more social workers and give them smaller caseloads

Exactly ! 37 hours in the working week and most social workers hold cases of 50+ families. You do the maths

I'm with you !!!

"
So don't they prioritise their caseloads like everyone else does? Or is it easier to concentrate on the "easier" cases? Hmmm.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"No mention of neighbours, family...

Easy to point the finger from afar especially if you've never been in the situation."
Teachers would see far more of this little boy and how he stole food then neighbours ever could.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes I completely agree with you

And like I say I can't believe this happened

In terms if the cuts to services

What I'm saying is that to ensure this doesn't happen again we have to recruit more social workers and give them smaller caseloads

Exactly ! 37 hours in the working week and most social workers hold cases of 50+ families. You do the maths

I'm with you !!!

So don't they prioritise their caseloads like everyone else does? Or is it easier to concentrate on the "easier" cases? Hmmm."

Which should they prioritise - the children whose parents are about to die, the children with drug abusing parents, the suspected child abuse...

Oh but all children are a priority aren't they?

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"Yes I completely agree with you

And like I say I can't believe this happened

In terms if the cuts to services

What I'm saying is that to ensure this doesn't happen again we have to recruit more social workers and give them smaller caseloads

Exactly ! 37 hours in the working week and most social workers hold cases of 50+ families. You do the maths

I'm with you !!!

So don't they prioritise their caseloads like everyone else does? Or is it easier to concentrate on the "easier" cases? Hmmm.

Which should they prioritise - the children whose parents are about to die, the children with drug abusing parents, the suspected child abuse...

Oh but all children are a priority aren't they?"
So each individual case is exactly the same in terms of what's happening? By that reckoning each child under their supervision should be dead by now. They arten't though are they?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No mention of neighbours, family...

Easy to point the finger from afar especially if you've never been in the situation.Teachers would see far more of this little boy and how he stole food then neighbours ever could."

I don't know who else was in his class. Maybe a girl being sexually abused, a class bully, 3 kids that don't speak English.. From what I heard the teachers had reported concerns in any case.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes I completely agree with you

And like I say I can't believe this happened

In terms if the cuts to services

What I'm saying is that to ensure this doesn't happen again we have to recruit more social workers and give them smaller caseloads

Exactly ! 37 hours in the working week and most social workers hold cases of 50+ families. You do the maths

I'm with you !!!

So don't they prioritise their caseloads like everyone else does? Or is it easier to concentrate on the "easier" cases? Hmmm.

Which should they prioritise - the children whose parents are about to die, the children with drug abusing parents, the suspected child abuse...

Oh but all children are a priority aren't they?So each individual case is exactly the same in terms of what's happening? By that reckoning each child under their supervision should be dead by now. They arten't though are they?"

I don't think you've ever seen a social workers case load!

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"No mention of neighbours, family...

Easy to point the finger from afar especially if you've never been in the situation.Teachers would see far more of this little boy and how he stole food then neighbours ever could.

I don't know who else was in his class. Maybe a girl being sexually abused, a class bully, 3 kids that don't speak English.. From what I heard the teachers had reported concerns in any case."
And that's that then. I've done my bit leave it to someone else although the lad was obviously suffering more and more. Wasters. Just waters.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"Yes I completely agree with you

And like I say I can't believe this happened

In terms if the cuts to services

What I'm saying is that to ensure this doesn't happen again we have to recruit more social workers and give them smaller caseloads

Exactly ! 37 hours in the working week and most social workers hold cases of 50+ families. You do the maths

I'm with you !!!

So don't they prioritise their caseloads like everyone else does? Or is it easier to concentrate on the "easier" cases? Hmmm.

Which should they prioritise - the children whose parents are about to die, the children with drug abusing parents, the suspected child abuse...

I don't think you've ever seen a social workers case load!"
Well you think wrong then don't you? Very wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really doubt it - anyone that had wouldn't be talking as you are.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"I really doubt it - anyone that had wouldn't be talking as you are."
Really. So I imagined working for Bham City Council's Social Services Dep't then. Thanks for letting me know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I rather suspect you did yes

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"I rather suspect you did yes

"
So you don't like what I say so call me liar? That's lame. Actually a typical social wotker's reply.Well done for fitting the stereotype perfectly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having seen a "social workers" caseload, i would simply posit the following.

If "they", the SS ("social services") did their work promptly, accurately and honestly, rather than toe the line of the SS agendas, then the workload would be reduced dramatically with a much better outcome.

The whole system is self serving by design, wholly without responsibility. More of the same is NOT what is needed.

Sami Chakrabati (sp?) was on the Radio last week. I forget the precise topic but it was relevant. Now i dont normally share her views on everything but when she said "the authorities and systems" are CORRUPT one can only agree.

Further, when an all party parliamentary committee state that a childcare organistaion are "Not fit for purpose"(*) then radical change is needed and not from within.

(*) hardly surprising when one reads the recent history of the organisation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I had a look on-line about the case and it had a graph of the bruises. Apart from the thigh, all the bruises are on the bony prominences. For a child of his age and a skinny child, the bruises themselves do not paint a picture of abuse.

All the info available, in isolation, does not paint the picture we see in it's entirety. So those judging the professionals are judging on what is known in its collective.

It really is a sad case but who the fuck is anyone to judge the professionals as wasters?

Information is shared on a need to know basis. I'm assuming it's this grey area of need to know which needs to change.

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By *opper1812Couple
over a year ago

bodmin

"No mention of neighbours, family...

Easy to point the finger from afar especially if you've never been in the situation."

I have sat in my house listening to my bully of a neighbour shouting swearing and smashing doors. This is directed at his three kids, all under 6. Called social services a while ago, to be told if concerned call police. Have done on 3 occassions, told them abuse going on in upstairs bedroom. On each occasion they did not check upstairs, and left happy with the story they were told.

They are welcome to come and sit in my house for a few hours, to hear what is going on; offered, they're not interested. He was recently convicted of assault; punching pregnant gf in stomach. Get off your arses social services

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It really is a sad case but who the fuck is anyone to judge the professionals as wasters?

I'll offer :

a) someone who has had the misfortune to be involved n a "case" with them

b) someone, from personal experience, who has a close friend who works for the SS often listening to their whinging as to how badly off they are, and quite frankly, details they should not be giving out in any circumstances.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It really is a sad case but who the fuck is anyone to judge the professionals as wasters?

I'll offer :

a) someone who has had the misfortune to be involved n a "case" with them

So due to the odd number who are either incompetent or lazy, the whole profession (and the other professions of healthcare, education and policing), it's okay to throw a blanket of "wasters" over them all?

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Society failed him. He was stealing food out of school bins ffs. What about his biological father, how come he had no concerns. Let's hope to god his legacy is that this will never happen again. But you just know it will

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

"Yes I completely agree with you

And like I say I can't believe this happened

In terms if the cuts to services

What I'm saying is that to ensure this doesn't happen again we have to recruit more social workers and give them smaller caseloads

Exactly ! 37 hours in the working week and most social workers hold cases of 50+ families. You do the maths

I'm with you !!!

So don't they prioritise their caseloads like everyone else does? Or is it easier to concentrate on the "easier" cases? Hmmm."

If you believe any of the cases are 'easier' then your deluded. All children's cases are difficult and they all take priority!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It really is a sad case but who the fuck is anyone to judge the professionals as wasters?

I'll offer :

a) someone who has had the misfortune to be involved n a "case" with them

13,561 is an odd number.

re SS , absolutely. More a case of the profession being corrupt and self serving by design. After all, don't "they" all have degrees, certainly qualifications?

A genuine profession would have a better regulatory process, Many others do which are not perfect, far from it, but at least they try. SS don't even pretend to try.

Would it improve the situation somewhat if the "SS" were to face dismissal and ideally criminal charges? I think so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sad thing is how inadequate all parties are when this happens. The law cant bring those kids back or serve adequate enough justice to tip the scales. So easily preventable. WTF!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Society failed him. He was stealing food out of school bins ffs. What about his biological father, how come he had no concerns. Let's hope to god his legacy is that this will never happen again. But you just know it will"

His father was kept from getting access to his child and was just as much a victim in this case as he has lost his child. Lets not start throwing accusations around without knowing the full facts eh!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is it true or fair to say he had no concerns.

I'd wager that SS excluded him rather than actively involved him.

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By *ollie_JCouple
over a year ago

London

Interesting interview on the today programme this morning

It was intimated that the Doctor spotted the malnutrition a week before his death but his own "investigations" we're still ongoing at the time of th death.

That doesn't sit very nicely with me at all. It indicates either they were doing it themselves or there was a comms mix up

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

His father was kept from getting access to his child and was just as much a victim in this case as he has lost his child. Lets not start throwing accusations around without knowing the full facts eh!"
what accusations?As I said it was society in general that let him down. None of us k ow the full facts only the ones the media allow us to know and as far as I'm aware no one on this thread was working on his case

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Interesting interview on the today programme this morning

It was intimated that the Doctor spotted the malnutrition a week before his death but his own "investigations" we're still ongoing at the time of th death.

That doesn't sit very nicely with me at all. It indicates either they were doing it themselves or there was a comms mix up"

Also seems to point out a lack of guts on the doc's behalf. There's a huge difference between dirty faced child and seriously maltreated. Even if there wasnt evidence of violence, daniel should have been admitted long before that final week

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Is it true or fair to say he had no concerns.

I'd wager that SS excluded him rather than actively involved him.

"
and how would you know whether he was excluded or not

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By *lentyoffun40Couple
over a year ago

Lancashire

Those who are skating social workers have obviously no idea of the strains and stresses that go with a safeguarding , referral and assessment social worker

It's not down to them not giving a shit or being lazy ... If you think this your a nutter

The truth if the matter is due to cuts in local authorities millions of pounds in small authorities have been lost social workers have ridiculous caseloads and cannot physically see a child every welek or day . It's just impossible

At the end of the day it comes down to money

Throw the same amount of money at children's services / social care and youth work as they do at overseas aid , space exploration and our nuclear / defence structures and you will see smaller case loads were vulnerable children and young people have regular contact with the SAME social worker

Who knows the child AND family

There wil be less if a turn over in social workers and cases like these will be less likely to happen

All down to money and resources !!!

And yet we can still send a space craft to fucking mars !!!

Well done

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Two simple question for any SS (social services). Part of this tragic story is that he was malnourished, starving.

How difficult would it have been to have actually fed him, or at least seen that he was well fed somewhere?

Would doing that have made the case easier or more difficult?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"As a professional in this area

I agree that it's atrocious and can't believe that this as happened again

Victoria climbie

Baby p and now this poor little child

seeing neglect and abuse cases on a daily basis and working with the kids who are still in the family home I am at a loss to think how this neglect and torture has been missed by so many people

I just can't answer that

Again , yes the professionals involved have a lot to answer for they get paid well so should be held to account for their part

However lets not forget the scumbags who did this are totally to blame

Failings in the system are clear to see

But lets not miss how evil these 2 are

Cuts in social care , support workers

Social work case loads at all time highs certainly doesn't help the situation

When you start to make cuts at the front line "unfortunately" ( sounds cold) there will be cases like this that are missed

What's needed is more social workers and people supporting them

Less red tape and endless paperwork and more social workers with more time to make home visits

This government needs to stop pumping money elsewhere and lets get this system for children and young people better But the teachers and social workers saw this. They were aware. Nothing to do with cuts just bone idle employees."

There is a long chain of people in a case like this and teachers are at the bottom of it.

You bring your concerns to the attention of the child protection officer at the school and they make the decision what to do with it. It then has to go higher than them.

No matter how many times you report things if they get cut off further up the chain there's not a lot you can do.

I don't think branding them "bone idle" is a particularly fair judgement to make. Unless of course you were there.

The fault lies with the whole system in general and the parents.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Two simple question for any SS (social services). Part of this tragic story is that he was malnourished, starving.

How difficult would it have been to have actually fed him, or at least seen that he was well fed somewhere?

Would doing that have made the case easier or more difficult?"

We all know it would have been easier to take pity than to have none, only maybe those that didn't saw him as a problem child? Maybe as a result of his treatment at home he was terribly behaved away from his abusers? Maybe we'll never know as they all set out to protect themselves during the enquiry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At the end of the day it comes down to money

That folk's is SS in a nutshell ( and many other similar professions).

Suppose my friend got the 10% extra salary "we fucking deserve" (his words) rather than the 1% the Govt awarded, how would this have helped this or any case?

How much of the budget, even if reduced, is allocated to inefficient procedures, arse covering letters and meetngs and suchlike?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Teachers, health workers, social workers and police officers treated four-year-old Daniel Pelka as if he was invisible, failing to prevent his mother and stepfather from murdering him after a campaign of torture and starvation

Dozens of opportunities to intervene were missed.

Social workers - "professionals", too eager to listen to him mum's excuses, and none actually asking Daniel about his homelife.

"Professionals" seeing him come to school with bruises and not asking him why he was marked.

All the "professionals" are sorry that they could never have guessed an emaciated, bruised little boy might be at risk.

But don't worry.

Lessons have been learned.

So that's OK then."

its gutting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

His father was kept from getting access to his child and was just as much a victim in this case as he has lost his child. Lets not start throwing accusations around without knowing the full facts eh!what accusations?As I said it was society in general that let him down. None of us k ow the full facts only the ones the media allow us to know and as far as I'm aware no one on this thread was working on his case"

"What about his biological father, how come he had no cncerns"? To me, and i'm sure i'm not alone, that sounds like an accusation against the father for not voicing his concerns. As you, and me and lots of folk have stated, no-one knows the full facts. Just the ones the media have informed us of. But, one of those facts was, the father was kept from seeing the poor soul.

We can all look back on hindsight and blame this or that person for not spotting the signs. But what i find REALLY annoying here is, nearly everyone on this thread are ehjther blaming the doctors, the teachers or the social services. Lets lay the blame for this henious crime where it deserves to be laid. SOLELY AT THE FEET OF THE MONSTERS THAT DONE IT!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's so much easier to a) tell others where they've made mistakes and b) be correct when you know the outcome.

Children break bones all the time and when you're looking for a non-accidental injury you look at 1) the story told and how it matches up and 2) what other children in the family look like.

We will never get this right but we'll always blame those that don't.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

Two simple question for any SS (social services). Part of this tragic story is that he was malnourished, starving.

How difficult would it have been to have actually fed him, or at least seen that he was well fed somewhere?

Would doing that have made the case easier or more difficult?"

Actually if you go read the SCR he wasn't starving and he wouldn't have died of starvation. He died of a single head injury!!

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

all these people saying more should be done, how would you feel i every bump and scrape your child has results in a visit from social services? will you welcome them into your home to do their work or would you tel them to mind their own fucking business and call them over zealous do gooders?

the way that some of you are talking this is the reality you want.

as the report says, there have been many missed opportunities in this case and it is a tragic story. Do you not think that everyone involved in this case is beating themselves up and second guessing their every move right now? i should imagine that many will remove themselves from the profession as a result of it.

once again the perfect of fab know how everyone else should do their job.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Two simple question for any SS (social services). Part of this tragic story is that he was malnourished, starving.

How difficult would it have been to have actually fed him, or at least seen that he was well fed somewhere?

Would doing that have made the case easier or more difficult?

Actually if you go read the SCR he wasn't starving and he wouldn't have died of starvation. He died of a single head injury!!"

Whats an SCR? And maybe so.

But are you saying that SS are correct to wait until a death has occurred? Or, as right minded people think, they should have acted to resolve all abuse and suffering before then?

All we seem to get form SS'ers is excuses and reasons why not.

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By *rivate auditionsMan
over a year ago

West Midlands

it said on the central tv news for the region last night that there had been a reported 27 visits to the home family because of "incidents" but what where these incidents?.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem with this is that we only ever find out about the failures. The successes will never be mentioned

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Each and every one of us is to blame for his death.

We have become a society driven by greed, me, me, me,

If we all took an interest in our neighbours, our family, our community, this could never of happened.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

Two simple question for any SS (social services). Part of this tragic story is that he was malnourished, starving.

How difficult would it have been to have actually fed him, or at least seen that he was well fed somewhere?

Would doing that have made the case easier or more difficult?

Actually if you go read the SCR he wasn't starving and he wouldn't have died of starvation. He died of a single head injury!!

Whats an SCR? And maybe so.

But are you saying that SS are correct to wait until a death has occurred? Or, as right minded people think, they should have acted to resolve all abuse and suffering before then?

All we seem to get form SS'ers is excuses and reasons why not."

SCR is the serious case review which sets out all the facts and not just the assumptions and over exaggerations that people are making of it. He wasn't actually that underweight for his age!!

And no of course I'm no saying we should wait till a death has occurred and they actually were actively working on this case so yet again more inaccurate assumptions!! And I can state this because I have read the serious case review!!

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

"it said on the central tv news for the region last night that there had been a reported 27 visits to the home family because of "incidents" but what where these incidents?."

They were DV Incidents which the police were called out to!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Two simple question for any SS (social services). Part of this tragic story is that he was malnourished, starving.

How difficult would it have been to have actually fed him, or at least seen that he was well fed somewhere?

Would doing that have made the case easier or more difficult?

Actually if you go read the SCR he wasn't starving and he wouldn't have died of starvation. He died of a single head injury!!

Whats an SCR? And maybe so.

But are you saying that SS are correct to wait until a death has occurred? Or, as right minded people think, they should have acted to resolve all abuse and suffering before then?

All we seem to get form SS'ers is excuses and reasons why not.

SCR is the serious case review which sets out all the facts and not just the assumptions and over exaggerations that people are making of it. He wasn't actually that underweight for his age!!

Lol. "Facts". Accurate, honest and truthful reports and facts? Don't make me laugh.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Lessons have been learned" They say....How many times have we heard that? every time a child dies we hear the same words....But are lessons being learned? It doesn't seem like they are!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Each and every one of us is to blame for his death.

We have become a society driven by greed, me, me, me,

If we all took an interest in our neighbours, our family, our community, this could never of happened."

Spot on.

There's a massive cultural problem of 'not my responsibility', 'do it for me', 'I'm entitled to it'... and then moan like fuck if it isn't provided on a plate to satisfaction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""Lessons have been learned" They say....How many times have we heard that? every time a child dies we hear the same words....But are lessons being learned? It doesn't seem like they are!"

What's the pattern of the child mortality rate in this country?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""Lessons have been learned" They say....How many times have we heard that? every time a child dies we hear the same words....But are lessons being learned? It doesn't seem like they are!"

Don't get me wrong this is a tragedy but actually many many more incidents are prevented by learning lessons. The problem is that's not news.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

""Lessons have been learned" They say....How many times have we heard that? every time a child dies we hear the same words....But are lessons being learned? It doesn't seem like they are!

Don't get me wrong this is a tragedy but actually many many more incidents are prevented by learning lessons. The problem is that's not news.

Exactly no one reports on the hundreds of children that actually are removed from abuse and neglect!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lets look at the flip side of the coin.

Children get put into care as a dr says they have been abused, turns out the child has a medical vondition and the parents are innocent.

spotting abuse isnt all black and white.

everything has to be taken into consideration such as the impact on the child if the wrong decision is made.

its a hard job and those who are going on about how its ss fault.. well lets see you do the job?

Yes he wss bruised and eating from bins. His siblings were fine. His house well looked after and no signs of abuse. His relationship towards the adults seemed ok. 4 year olds bruise all the time. His mother said he had a medical condition that was making him thin and hungry and she had seen a dr about...

i think the main let down was communication between everyone..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""Lessons have been learned" They say....How many times have we heard that? every time a child dies we hear the same words....But are lessons being learned? It doesn't seem like they are!

Don't get me wrong this is a tragedy but actually many many more incidents are prevented by learning lessons. The problem is that's not news.

Exactly no one reports on the hundreds of children that actually are removed from abuse and neglect!!!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Two simple question for any SS (social services). Part of this tragic story is that he was malnourished, starving.

How difficult would it have been to have actually fed him, or at least seen that he was well fed somewhere?

Would doing that have made the case easier or more difficult?

Actually if you go read the SCR he wasn't starving and he wouldn't have died of starvation. He died of a single head injury!!

Whats an SCR? And maybe so.

But are you saying that SS are correct to wait until a death has occurred? Or, as right minded people think, they should have acted to resolve all abuse and suffering before then?

All we seem to get form SS'ers is excuses and reasons why not.

SCR is the serious case review which sets out all the facts and not just the assumptions and over exaggerations that people are making of it. He wasn't actually that underweight for his age!!

Lol. "Facts". Accurate, honest and truthful reports and facts? Don't make me laugh.

Presumably, the actual facts are not as reliable as the "facts" you heard from your "friend"

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By *lentyoffun40Couple
over a year ago

Lancashire

Top and bottom of this

Is thee was no record of any conversation had with the child

All those people and nobody asked the young boy

Considering looked after children ( those in care) have a right to an advocate

Children subject to child protection plans don't

Maybe the law needs changing so that any child who is subject to a plan has the right to an independent advocate

That way his / her wishes and feelings are always taken into consideration and the young person has someone he can talk to

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

"Top and bottom of this

Is thee was no record of any conversation had with the child

All those people and nobody asked the young boy

Considering looked after children ( those in care) have a right to an advocate

Children subject to child protection plans don't

Maybe the law needs changing so that any child who is subject to a plan has the right to an independent advocate

That way his / her wishes and feelings are always taken into consideration and the young person has someone he can talk to

This child wasn't subject to a child protection plan nor was he even under s.17 child in need plan. However if he was I don't know of any local authorities that wouldn't have offered advocacy services but considering the child was 4 and consent would have had to be gained from the evil bitch of a mother it's highly unlikely she would have agreed.

I think many people are forgetting this child was only 4 years of age and English wasn't his first language and its unlikely he would have disclosed anything to change the outcome of this. Parents do a good job of making children think its normal. I've seen cases of children subjected to the most heinous abuse but they sadly still remain loyal to parents and deny anything happened.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Professionals are human beings that are capable of making mistake, just like anyone else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Top and bottom of this

Is thee was no record of any conversation had with the child

All those people and nobody asked the young boy

Considering looked after children ( those in care) have a right to an advocate

Children subject to child protection plans don't

Maybe the law needs changing so that any child who is subject to a plan has the right to an independent advocate

That way his / her wishes and feelings are always taken into consideration and the young person has someone he can talk to

Could the SS not get parental consent of the natural father?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

off of*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Professionals are human beings that are capable of making mistake, just like anyone else.

every rung on The ladder it would appear on this one Pearl

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The natural father is meant to be informed of concerns but in my own experience Social services do not do this and despite upholding eight out of ten of my complaints, I fear that this is a very dangerous situation. Maybe their mother would still be alive if this was the case but unfortunately many cover ups are made after the mistakes.

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By *lentyoffun40Couple
over a year ago

Lancashire

Expert in child protection : social work on tv just hit the nail on the head

Public sector cuts mean professionals are not seeing families and young children as much as they could,

The cuts have consequences

Cutting services for the most vulnerable Can and will cost lives

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By *lentyoffun40Couple
over a year ago

Lancashire

"Top and bottom of this

Is thee was no record of any conversation had with the child

All those people and nobody asked the young boy

Considering looked after children ( those in care) have a right to an advocate

Children subject to child protection plans don't

Maybe the law needs changing so that any child who is subject to a plan has the right to an independent advocate

That way his / her wishes and feelings are always taken into consideration and the young person has someone he can talk to

Me too

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

Could the SS not get parental consent of the natural father?

Chances are he has no PR as they were not married and dads do not automatically get PR!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Could the SS not get parental consent of the natural father?

Chances are he has no PR as they were not married and dads do not automatically get PR!!"

Yes they do these days.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Considering looked after children ( those in care) have a right to an advocate

Children subject to child protection plans don't

Yes they do, their social worker and independent agencies.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Could the SS not get parental consent of the natural father?

Chances are he has no PR as they were not married and dads do not automatically get PR!!"

Also he lived in Poland so that might have thrown up some issues.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

Could the SS not get parental consent of the natural father?

Chances are he has no PR as they were not married and dads do not automatically get PR!!

Yes they do these days."

No they don't no father does. They only get PR if married to the mother at time of birth or mother names them on birth certificate. If she doesn't then no PR!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Could the SS not get parental consent of the natural father?

Chances are he has no PR as they were not married and dads do not automatically get PR!!"

You sure? By law, natural fathers have parental responsiblity whether married or not.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire

Could the SS not get parental consent of the natural father?

Chances are he has no PR as they were not married and dads do not automatically get PR!!

You sure? By law, natural fathers have parental responsiblity whether married or not. "

Totally sure as I work with pr law every day. Fathers only get pr if they are married to the mother OR the baby was born after 1st dec 2003 and are named on the birth certificate!! If they're not named they get no automatic pr I can assure you!!

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By *illwill69uMan
over a year ago

moston

His parents can just go to hell."
We live in a "no blame" society thanks to political correctness.

Killers claim that they are not to blame because they were d*unk or didn't mean to kill and get charged with manslaughter rather than murder, politicians can commit fraud and get away with it because they give the money back when caught, and we all know the list goes on so why should anyone be held to account for their incompetence in their work life provided they say "lessons have been learned"?

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