FabSwingers.com forum: Bongo Bongo-Land

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Do you think UKIP politician Godfrey Bloom’s use of the term “Bongo-Bongo-Land” to describe 3rd world countries was offence?

A Straw poll on MSN suggests 59% of 25000 people who voted thought it was harmless, while 41% thought it was hugely derogatory….!.

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By *ucsparkMan
over a year ago

dudley

To be fair to the chap I am sure he meant to offend.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

But he said it was a made up country and bore no reference to any real country

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Offensive?...Not really

Out dated/poor judgement....Yes

Perhaps his spin doctors are about 7yrs old and haven't started geography at school yet...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree with nucsparc. The guys intention was to offend.

The word bongo bongo land is not offensive. And the place does exist. It's next to cloud cuckoo land.... where most UKIP members and supporters come from

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whether it was meant to offend, it shows a small-minded and antiquated mindset. Its the sort of phrase my grandad might have used, not a 21st century politician in the public arena

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally think it just made him looked small minded and stupid.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

It all depends on context and intent.

There's nothing racist in calling somewhere Bongo Bongo land if they play the Bongo's there.

There was nothing racist in Jade Goody calling Shilpa Shetty ,'Shilpa Poppadum' when she couldn't remember her name.

It's all very telling about the M.P. that used it though. Too lazy to learn country names and facts.

It does make one open ones slitty eyes.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Agree with nucsparc. The guys intention was to offend.

.................."

Even his 'apologies' were well worded to show he doesn't give a toss.

You can disagree with his sentiment but he's clearly a man o' independent mind, as Burns put it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Largely agree with Granny on this. Heard the guy on two interviews yesterday (as me car's off the road -see 'ted's thursday rant'!) - totally unrepentant!!

What does amaze me is that he made these comments about six weeks ago

and UKIP must have known he'd said it, yet didn't do anything to 'head it off at the pass'. All they said yesterday is that he's been 'asked not to say it again'.

Astonishing.

ted.

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By *a35ukMan
over a year ago

Hailsham

[Removed by poster at 08/08/13 09:12:50]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It all depends on context and intent.

There's nothing racist in calling somewhere Bongo Bongo land if they play the Bongo's there.

There was nothing racist in Jade Goody calling Shilpa Shetty ,'Shilpa Poppadum' when she couldn't remember her name.

It's all very telling about the M.P. that used it though. Too lazy to learn country names and facts.

It does make one open ones slitty eyes."

So Gwanny,,,,,,, would that be a bit like saying....

"Way down deep in the middle of the Congo

A hippo took an apricot, a guava and a mango.

He stuck it with the others, and he danced a dainty Tango ...

The rhino said “I know, we’ll call it Um Bongo”

But Godfrey Bloom is a Dick!...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have we got Freedom of speech here ... Er no

Made me think about the umbongo ad

http://youtu.be/wYj5o4kQsXs

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..........

It's all very telling about the M.P. that used it though. Too lazy to learn country names and facts.

.............. "

Picking out a specific country wouldn't have had the same impact.

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By *unky monkeyMan
over a year ago

in the night garden

"It all depends on context and intent.

There's nothing racist in calling somewhere Bongo Bongo land if they play the Bongo's there.

There was nothing racist in Jade Goody calling Shilpa Shetty ,'Shilpa Poppadum' when she couldn't remember her name.

It's all very telling about the M.P. that used it though. Too lazy to learn country names and facts.

It does make one open ones slitty eyes.

So Gwanny,,,,,,, would that be a bit like saying....

"Way down deep in the middle of the Congo

A hippo took an apricot, a guava and a mango.

He stuck it with the others, and he danced a dainty Tango ...

The rhino said “I know, we’ll call it Um Bongo”

But Godfrey Bloom is a Dick!...

Soxy your rhymez iz sick bro!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

slightly off topic. He has a point about foreign aid when we are seeing cut backs in hospitals, legal aid etc. Surely start at home before sending abroad?

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

"..........

It's all very telling about the M.P. that used it though. Too lazy to learn country names and facts.

..............

Picking out a specific country wouldn't have had the same impact."

That would have been so much worse! He makes these statements to shock and create controversy - I think we should reduce our aid to other countries as we really can't afford so much outgoing. Z

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

The term Bongo Bongo Land in a political context has previous, Alan Clarke used it in reference to Africa, Taki Theodoracopulos used the term as reference to Kenya in an article in the Spectator..the notion that Godfrey Bloom wasn't aware of the connotations, stretches credibility just a little to far. Politicians are by and large, fully aware of the effect of contentious remarks. UKIP whilst possibly prepared to rap his knuckles will be delighted with the oxygen of publicity.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"Whether it was meant to offend, it shows a small-minded and antiquated mindset. Its the sort of phrase my grandad might have used, not a 21st century politician in the public arena"

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By *els_BellsWoman
over a year ago

with the moon n stars somewhere in gtr manc

I believe this was the same delightful chap who said women of a child bearing age should not be employed, in case they get pregnant

I think he is still thinks we are all in Victorian times. He shows himself up as a stupid out of date baffoon.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, I think it was a very uneducated and thoughtless thing to say, Maybe he should take a trip to Africa and open his eyes x

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"Whether it was meant to offend, it shows a small-minded and antiquated mindset. Its the sort of phrase my grandad might have used, not a 21st century politician in the public arena"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Problem is he's grouping all third world countries all aid into one category of "Bongo Bongo" land. His knowledge base is clearly limited and for those with little knowledge it's better not to make a pronouncement that makes you look stupid and outdated.

However

Most of those he's targeting with this type of outdated crap are probably quite pleased he's told "the truth" .

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By *els_BellsWoman
over a year ago

with the moon n stars somewhere in gtr manc

"Problem is he's grouping all third world countries all aid into one category of "Bongo Bongo" land. His knowledge base is clearly limited and for those with little knowledge it's better not to make a pronouncement that makes you look stupid and outdated.

However

Most of those he's targeting with this type of outdated crap are probably quite pleased he's told "the truth" .

I'm sure good old Nige will promise him the position of deputy leadership.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The term Bongo Bongo Land in a political context has previous, Alan Clarke used it in reference to Africa, Taki Theodoracopulos used the term as reference to Kenya in an article in the Spectator..the notion that Godfrey Bloom wasn't aware of the connotations, stretches credibility just a little to far. Politicians are by and large, fully aware of the effect of contentious remarks. UKIP whilst possibly prepared to rap his knuckles will be delighted with the oxygen of publicity. "

That's what made me (sort of) smile... he used the term 'Bongo-Bongo Land', which is generally aimed at Africa.... then went on to cite Pakistan acquiring a squadron of F18's.... Think he needs a geography lesson for one... Wonder if he knows where Europe is? He's only an MEP after all....

ted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have a look how much ali bongo spent on his new gulf stream jet or the 18 million pound of UK government aid on doin his mansion

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sadly, the actual point he was trying to make (poorly)- that so much foreign aid ends up on the black market or providing back-door funding for those regimes that create the humanitarian crises in the first place - has been lost in the 'storm in a teacup' over one simple (poorly chosen) generalisation.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Yes the language was unfortunate, but as he says he just loves upsetting the Guardian and the BBC. In my government there would be a ministerial office for upsetting the Guardian and the BBC.

As for the rest of his comments he is spot on.

Why should Britain (or any other country) give away billions in aid to countries where the president (dictator) has two top end private jets, and a weakness for Rolex's (Rwanda) or owns 39 properties in Paris and a fleet of Rollers (Gabon) or a 21 million dollar mansion in Malibu beach, a 26 million dollar Gulfstream jet and can afford to spend nearly 2 million on Michael Jackson memorabilia (Equatorial Guinea) or another private jet for 30 million (they like their jets these guys) and 500 million for Russian jet fighters (Uganda) or another multi million Paris property portfolio including what are rated as the top 16 most luxurious propertys in the city (Congo) who are the biggest recipient of UK aid BTW. or President Jacob Zuma (South Africa) had spent £17.5million to upgrade his rural home into a luxury mansion. The sum is almost exactly the amount Britain gave to South Africa the previous year, along with another 40 million on road improvements to the property. Then there is Pakistan which has a nuclear arsenal, and India that not only has the same, it also has a space program.

It is beyond belief that anyone could support giving aid to ANY of these country's (and there are others) while services in Britain are being cut.

Maybe Godfrey bloom deliberatly used the language to get this story up and on the newspapers radar. If he did, it was a great success. Well done that man

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Forgetting of course that most aid doesn't go to dictators directly and much of it is directed straight to projects. The funding for luxuries tends to be stolen from other sources and often is the price of keeping those countries stable so the west can use their mineral resources at a knock down price. The problem is that people take 1+1 and create 23.46. A lack of understanding of types of aid, sources of aid and outcomes of aid are part of the issue. There are clearly issues of corruption in many countries however there are also areas where aid is needed and used appropriately to develop large areas of Africa, Asia and South America. He's only appealing to a certain type of person who wants to waste their money setting up a ministry to upsetting the Bbc and the guardian.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It is beyond belief that anyone could support giving aid to ANY of these country's (and there are others) while services in Britain are being cut.

Yeah but seeing a public Library closing is not quite the same watching a child die of starvation…….

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Forgetting of course that most aid doesn't go to dictators directly and much of it is directed straight to projects. The funding for luxuries tends to be stolen from other sources and often is the price of keeping those countries stable so the west can use their mineral resources at a knock down price. The problem is that people take 1+1 and create 23.46. A lack of understanding of types of aid, sources of aid and outcomes of aid are part of the issue. There are clearly issues of corruption in many countries however there are also areas where aid is needed and used appropriately to develop large areas of Africa, Asia and South America. He's only appealing to a certain type of person who wants to waste their money setting up a ministry to upsetting the Bbc and the guardian. "

This topic regarding foreign aid has been covered on the forums before and I remember some time back someone gave a very in depth view on fab forums on how and why foreign aid is used abroad. I think it was wishy or someone with a username like that.

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

Spot on...the idea that aid is given by Governments purely from altruistic/humanitarian considerations is at best naive. Realpolitik and economic strategy as ever is paramount.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Of course some aid money is well spent, vaccination programs being a prime example. However if you believe that all (or even most) of aid goes directly to the people you are living in in that popular place next door to Bongo Bongo land (cloud cuckoo land) Most aid money is given directly to governments with the only ways of checking how it is used is through paper work (usually forged) and occasional visits by ministers and civil servants where they are chaperoned to a few pet projects that look good.

As for the Guardian and the BBC my ministry would be self financing by cutting the massive amount of dead wood out of the public owned Bloated Broadcasting Corporation.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"It is beyond belief that anyone could support giving aid to ANY of these country's (and there are others) while services in Britain are being cut.

Yeah but seeing a public Library closing is not quite the same watching a child die of starvation…….

Tell that to the Presidents of the aforementioned country's.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

the issue, as torjames points out, is that the UK seldom if ever actually sends containers full of money to these guys.

Aid is usually in the form of advantageous credit terms so their Min of Agriculture in XXXXXXXXX can buy British made tractors instead of American made ones or their Min of Defence can buy Land Rovers instead of Shoguns (or whatever).

What happens to those tractors or Land Rovers after that is another matter but at least UK jobs have been secured in a way that doesn't contravene international trade agreements.

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By *uckoo clockCouple
over a year ago

Merseyside

He is clearly a canny politician in that he knows how to grab a headline. But all of that is simplyt grandstanding.

But I suggest that the majority of voters wouldn't disagree with his valid points about our foreign aid policy

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It is beyond belief that anyone could support giving aid to ANY of these country's (and there are others) while services in Britain are being cut.

Yeah but seeing a public Library closing is not quite the same watching a child die of starvation…….

Tell that to the Presidents of the aforementioned country's."

We do tell it to them,,,,, but while we wait for that message to get though we dont turn our backs on children and families who might die without our offer of assistance?

Ohhhhhh dear me,,,,,,, there for the grace of god eh!,,,,,,,, ffs,,,

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Spot on...the idea that aid is given by Governments purely from altruistic/humanitarian considerations is at best naive. Realpolitik and economic strategy as ever is paramount. "

You mean like the trade deals we get back. Of course British Aerospace did really well out Uganda's order of Russian jets.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"He is clearly a canny politician in that he knows how to grab a headline. But all of that is simplyt grandstanding.

But I suggest that the majority of voters wouldn't disagree with his valid points about our foreign aid policy "

The majority of HIS voters clearly did.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Actually most of my life wasn't in cloud cuckoo land or bongo bongo land it was

Algeria

Bangladesh

Philippines

Ethiopia

Laos

Some of the "aid" went to corruption but most didn't. Most of the wasted money was wasted by the people from the west on projects which had little or no impact on the local population but brought huge benefits to their donors.

Such as the 500 tractors purchased from John Deere in the Philippines which couldn't be used as they sank in the paddies but directly benefited the west. Fertiliser purchased from the west, building materials, expertise and the list goes on and on. The west benefits massively from aid and this idiot thinks this all the money goes direct to the BB land rulers when in fact most of it comes straight back here.

He's simplified the language for the hard of thinking and those with little knowledge to make him seem like a

"Good man" however he's clearly ill informed.

Much aid isn't "aid" at all and in fact often money never ever changes hands

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is beyond belief that anyone could support giving aid to ANY of these country's (and there are others) while services in Britain are being cut.

Yeah but seeing a public Library closing is not quite the same watching a child die of starvation…….

well said

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

As for the Guardian and the BBC my ministry would be self financing by cutting the massive amount of dead wood out of the public owned Bloated Broadcasting Corporation.

May I say with the greatest respect you are in danger of being in Cloud Cuckoo land if you don't realise that of course Governments are fully aware of the corruption you are referring to, as per my previous post Realpolitik operates.

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By *EXY50ishWoman
over a year ago

Anywhere and nowhere

[Removed by poster at 08/08/13 11:07:11]

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"It is beyond belief that anyone could support giving aid to ANY of these country's (and there are others) while services in Britain are being cut.

Yeah but seeing a public Library closing is not quite the same watching a child die of starvation…….

Tell that to the Presidents of the aforementioned country's.

We do tell it to them,,,,, but while we wait for that message to get though we dont turn our backs on children and families who might die without our offer of assistance?

Ohhhhhh dear me,,,,,,, there for the grace of god eh!,,,,,,,, ffs,,,

The west has been propping up Africa for 50 years and very little has changed, nor will it.

My first memories are from the Nigeria Biafra war, and every war in Africa has had pretty much the same consequences.

Ethiopia was terrible and I sent a sizable donation to Live Aid, and for emergency aid I would do the same again.

That is not the same as government aid though, most is given directly to corrupt governments and while a little may trickle down most of it finishes in the bank accounts of despot dictators and corrupt officials.

The only real difference I have seen over the years in Africa is that most of the dictators have become rich, the productive country's have become basket cases (Zimbabwe being the prime example) and a few that have some mineral wealth (Nigeria & South Africa as examples) have seen some small improvements for the population at large.

BTW I was reading the other day that 200 grand of Comic Relief money has recently vanished into the ether. Sounds like Stuttgart will have to step up production.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Just out of curiosity can I as those who are against Britain having a foreign aid policy, where they feel these "3rd world" countries evolution would measure up against a time line of the economic and social development that’s taken place in Britain over the last two millennium…

Do you perhaps feel they are one hundred years behind us,,,, or perhaps two or three or four hundred years behind us or perhaps even more?

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By *EXY50ishWoman
over a year ago

Anywhere and nowhere

'm more concerned with the billions of pounds that aren't for spent where they are needed. Not as a result of it hitting the media now - its been a concern for some time. Not just in 3rd world countries but also in Europe. There are children in this country slipping through the net due to cuts in finances to local councils, whilst I believe 1 country ( I forgetwhere) built a water parkwith foreign aide money. This goes hand in hand with the huge salaries earned by charity bosses. I want my money to go to those who need it the most,wether that be in this country or abroad.Rant over. The end

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have we got Freedom of speech here ... Er no

Made me think about the umbongo ad

http://youtu.be/wYj5o4kQsXs"

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

The only "Realpolitik" I see is the re branding of the Conservative party.

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

"The only "Realpolitik" I see is the re branding of the Conservative party.

That's the beauty of Realpolitik, you don't get to see it!

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Soxy. I am not against a foreign aid policy, but it is currently too big and needs cutting not increasing, and then properly targeting and policing.

At the moment we pretty much just send the cheque and the conscience is clear.

That is not good enough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So what whilst not well put his point was to do with the amount of foreign aid the government is insisting on making law. Whilst folk here are struggling we should reduce it not increase.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"The only "Realpolitik" I see is the re branding of the Conservative party.

That's the beauty of Realpolitik, you don't get to see it!"

Neither have I ever seen a Martian, but I'm pretty sure they don't exist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So what whilst not well put his point was to do with the amount of foreign aid the government is insisting on making law. Whilst folk here are struggling we should reduce it not increase."

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

"The only "Realpolitik" I see is the re branding of the Conservative party.

That's the beauty of Realpolitik, you don't get to see it!

Neither have I ever seen a Martian, but I'm pretty sure they don't exist."

And you don't believe that Realpolitik occurs?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"The only "Realpolitik" I see is the re branding of the Conservative party.

That's the beauty of Realpolitik, you don't get to see it!"

You maybe can't see it but you can smell it.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"The only "Realpolitik" I see is the re branding of the Conservative party.

That's the beauty of Realpolitik, you don't get to see it!

You maybe can't see it but you can smell it."

For once Onny we agree.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wow

Foreign "aid" isn't just cash being sent abroad to foreigners

It's made up of

Trade agreements

Loans

Bilateral aid directly controlled by the UK government

Aid being controlled by NGO's

Aid directed to specific projects

Money being directed by UN agencies such as ILO, FAO, UNDP,UNESCO etc

These often require the agencies to purchase supplies from the west (including the UK)

There is clearly corruption which needs to be sorted at all levels.

However to think this is just money that could have been spent on a school in England misses the way economics works. They don't have a purse with a set amount of cash in it. Preferential loans have nothing to do with it, often the net income to the UK outweighs the amount initially spent.

Governments are propped up all over the world by the west for more reasons than charity.

Oh and not just Nigeria and South Africa have mineral wealth.

Algeria is gas and oil rich as is Libya, Zambia is copper rich, Kenya is rich in agriculture, and so on. Often this money is controlled by western corporations who spend huge amounts on keeping their governments sweet. Corruption is far more prevalent from those areas

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Exactly my point we keep saying we as a country are skint so why do we keep giving money away an to fund lifestyles of dictators

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"The only "Realpolitik" I see is the re branding of the Conservative party.

That's the beauty of Realpolitik, you don't get to see it!

Neither have I ever seen a Martian, but I'm pretty sure they don't exist.

And you don't believe that Realpolitik occurs?"

Of course I believe it exists, but that doesn't mean we get much benefit from it.

No doubt the Russians gave the Ugandan president a huge bung for the jet order.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Exactly my point we keep saying we as a country are skint so why do we keep giving money away an to fund lifestyles of dictators "

We don't

It's not how it works

money isn't

"Given away". Actual money rarely changes hands which has no direct benefit to the UK

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Exactly my point we keep saying we as a country are skint so why do we keep giving money away an to fund lifestyles of dictators "

But we don't give money for that intended purpose,,,!

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"The only "Realpolitik" I see is the re branding of the Conservative party.

That's the beauty of Realpolitik, you don't get to see it!

You maybe can't see it but you can smell it.

For once Onny we agree.

Just proves you're not ALWAYS wrong.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Exactly my point we keep saying we as a country are skint so why do we keep giving money away an to fund lifestyles of dictators

But we don't give money for that intended purpose,,,!

But we have few controls on how the goods we subsidise are 'recycled' once in country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly, I would give more to help overseas aid if it actually funded making fundamental, grass roots changes in the way in which these countries operate to allow the population to end repression and to start building their own futures.

We pour money into feeding the starving, providing water and medicines, agriculture , schools and assistance but what never seems to happen is that we (the West) bring about fundamental changes in the geopolitical landscape of these countries in order to stop dictatorships and military junta rule.

Only when you have a political power base which is working WITH the aid agencies will real change be affected for the long term future. Until then, all they can do is keep sticking 'plasters' where they can.

We CAN affect political change, sadly only if they have enough oil. Or am I being cynical now?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The money from aid very very rarely goes to dictators.

They tend to get their money from awarding contracts to foreign companies and then passing on to their families

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Exactly my point we keep saying we as a country are skint so why do we keep giving money away an to fund lifestyles of dictators

But we don't give money for that intended purpose,,,!

But we have few controls on how the goods we subsidise are 'recycled' once in country."

Would you prefer we turn our collective backs on the weak and vulnerable the sick and the dying...... and perhaps we should instigate news black-out every-time there is a humanitarian crisis or natural disaster anywhere in the world fear it upsets the sensibilities of those people back in the UK who are having to deal with the effects of financial cutbacks brought on by our own overspending......

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

I am fully aware that many of the agency's do fantastic work in Africa and other continents, and I would never want it to stop.

The problem is that far too much of the aid money just disappears, and then we see the presidents of these country's flaunting fabulous wealth while their people starve.

This cannot go on, Britain the EU and the UN need to get a grip of it. As I said in my earlier post, the West has been sending aid money to Africa for 50 years and very little has changed for the better, in fact many countries are much worse now than then.

As a continent Africa has massive mineral wealth and some countries could become a bread basket rather than a basket case, but until some proper politicians come to the fore and really start to exploit that wealth for the benefit of their people nothing will change.

Throwing unlimited money at tin pot dictators and warlords will never solve anything and we will still be seeing starving babies on our TV's in another 50 years. For example how many vaccinations would the 21 million spent by the president of Equatorial Guinea for his Malibu beach mansion pay for? and the list could go on.

Personally I think some sort of UN backed temporary colonisation in some of the worst country's would be a way forward, but I know it will never happen, and every problem will be met by the conscience clearing cheque.

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

"The only "Realpolitik" I see is the re branding of the Conservative party.

That's the beauty of Realpolitik, you don't get to see it!

Neither have I ever seen a Martian, but I'm pretty sure they don't exist.

And you don't believe that Realpolitik occurs?

Of course I believe it exists, but that doesn't mean we get much benefit from it.

No doubt the Russians gave the Ugandan president a huge bung for the jet order."

Long term who is to know what benefit we get from it. That is the whole rationale of Realpolitik..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

VOTE UKIP

SORT THIS COUNTRY OUT !!!!!!!!!

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"The only "Realpolitik" I see is the re branding of the Conservative party.

That's the beauty of Realpolitik, you don't get to see it!

You maybe can't see it but you can smell it.

For once Onny we agree.

Just proves you're not ALWAYS wrong."

I am always RIGHT and just occasionally you agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"VOTE UKIP

SORT THIS COUNTRY OUT !!!!!!!!!"

Lol

Of course they will!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"VOTE UKIP

SORT THIS COUNTRY OUT !!!!!!!!!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"VOTE UKIP

SORT THIS COUNTRY OUT !!!!!!!!!

Ukip will sort fuck all the workd is not as simple as just pulling out of eurpoean market deluded to think otherwise. Major employers already say they will move away so what will ukip do then. They and supporters are looking at it wrong we are no longer a major player in the wirkd as we think and pulling up the drawbridge and reverting back to little englanders is pathetic.

I agree being in europe had it drawbacks but plusses outweigh the negatives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We can stay within a European free market , without having political union

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

"VOTE UKIP

SORT THIS COUNTRY OUT !!!!!!!!!"

Ah the luxury of minority opposition...always have all the answers, and knowing they will never have to be responsible for them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Back to soxys original question was it offensive no, was it stupid, yes was it comedy gold for Russell Howard to use for months on end, you betcha lol

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Exactly my point we keep saying we as a country are skint so why do we keep giving money away an to fund lifestyles of dictators

But we don't give money for that intended purpose,,,!

But we have few controls on how the goods we subsidise are 'recycled' once in country.

Would you prefer we turn our collective backs on the weak and vulnerable the sick and the dying...... .........."

Sounds like the UK under Cameron's Conservatives.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"We can stay within a European free market , without having political union "

Why would the rest of Europe be willing to grant us that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We can stay within a European free market , without having political union

Why would the rest of Europe be willing to grant us that?"

It is already in place with other countries

You think the Germans would want to loose the uk as a trading partner

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We can stay within a European free market , without having political union "

That ought to be interesting. How exactly would that work? Free trade agreements are different to political union however negotiating with them will require a forward thinking process not UKiP who are extremely backward thinking.

Current system not perfect but as with most protest parties they cherry pick their arguments to suit their protest

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

"Whether it was meant to offend, it shows a small-minded and antiquated mindset. Its the sort of phrase my grandad might have used, not a 21st century politician in the public arena"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wow

Foreign "aid" isn't just cash being sent abroad to foreigners

It's made up of

Trade agreements

Loans

Bilateral aid directly controlled by the UK government

Aid being controlled by NGO's

Aid directed to specific projects

Money being directed by UN agencies such as ILO, FAO, UNDP,UNESCO etc

These often require the agencies to purchase supplies from the west (including the UK)

There is clearly corruption which needs to be sorted at all levels.

Governments are propped up all over the world by the west for more reasons than charity.

Oh and not just Nigeria and South Africa have mineral wealth.

Nicely put

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We can stay within a European free market , without having political union

Current system not perfect but as with most protest parties they cherry pick their arguments to suit their protest "

Other countries already have free trade agreements

Did I me toon UKIP

UK is a massive market for other European countries . They wa t to keep it that way

The EU is negotiating with the USA for trade Agreements at the moment but they are not joining the EU

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"We can stay within a European free market , without having political union

Why would the rest of Europe be willing to grant us that?

It is already in place with other countries

You think the Germans would want to loose the uk as a trading partner "

I think they'd be very keen not to have the UK trading with other EU countries.

Would it stop Brits paying over the odds for Mercedes or BMW cars or Naff ovens? I doubt it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We can stay within a European free market , without having political union

Why would the rest of Europe be willing to grant us that?

It is already in place with other countries

You think the Germans would want to loose the uk as a trading partner

I think they'd be very keen not to have the UK trading with other EU countries.

Would it stop Brits paying over the odds for Mercedes or BMW cars or Naff ovens? I doubt it."

So negative!

Imports and exports to and from the EU are about on a parr they want us

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't understand why so many people on here are slagging off UKIP & accusing them of being backward & yet cannot substantiate any of it. UKIP believe in living within our means, other parties think that there is a money tree that will magically pay for everything. The EU would be happy to let us trade with them without political union because they sell us more stuff , than they buy off us. Just common sense & if you want to slag off UKIP fine, just say exactly why.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".......

I think they'd be very keen not to have the UK trading with other EU countries.

Would it stop Brits paying over the odds for Mercedes or BMW cars or Naff ovens? I doubt it.

So negative!

Imports and exports to and from the EU are about on a parr they want us "

International trade isn't about individual positivity or negativity. It's about large sums of money which may make or break a nation's economy.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

So this foreign aid isn't actually money just credits? So why only 0.7% of GDP? Why not an unlimited amount? Oh and we have people using foodbanks,bedroom tax and the disabled being told their benefits are being cut or scrapped so don't be so stupid as to make out all we are suffering in the UK is library closures.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't understand why so many people on here are slagging off UKIP & accusing them of being backward & yet cannot substantiate any of it."

UKIP are just righter-wing Tories.

" UKIP believe in living within our means, other parties think that there is a money tree that will magically pay for everything. "

UKIP believe in rich(er) people having whatever they want/ need and the devil take the rest.

"The EU would be happy to let us trade with them without political union because they sell us more stuff , than they buy off us. Just common sense & if you want to slag off UKIP fine, just say exactly why."

Ya think? The sole purpose of the EU is large and enlarging political union. The trade stuff is a means to that end.

Try getting out of one bit of it without the other and see what befalls us.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"So this foreign aid isn't actually money just credits? So why only 0.7% of GDP? Why not an unlimited amount? Oh and we have people using foodbanks,bedroom tax and the disabled being told their benefits are being cut or scrapped so don't be so stupid as to make out all we are suffering in the UK is library closures."

It's not so much credits as subsidies.

Using subsidies to eg encourage foreign governments to buy Land Rovers helps sustain employment in the UK thus reducing unemployment etc costs - even if the profit ends up in India.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

So it's subsidies? So it is cash then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".......

I think they'd be very keen not to have the UK trading with other EU countries.

Would it stop Brits paying over the odds for Mercedes or BMW cars or Naff ovens? I doubt it.

So negative!

Imports and exports to and from the EU are about on a parr they want us

International trade isn't about individual positivity or negativity. It's about large sums of money which may make or break a nation's economy."

The UK is a a very large market in world terms never mind within Europe . The EU would not want to jeopardise the loss of that market

As I said there are trade agreements already in place with the EU and Switzerland for example

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"So it's subsidies? So it is cash then? "

Very rarely. The issue is what happens to the Land Rovers (or whatever) once they get to the intended destination.

Maybe country A sells them onto country B for cash money or another product which might or might not be capable of being used against us or our allies should country A choose.

How did Argentina get the Exocets?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bloody place! Went there on holiday last year, no sleep at all due to the amount of bongo bongo music being played 24/7 plus all those ferraris going down the high street at all hours with the drivers laughing at the British tax payers expense !!

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Bad example _nny. Look at the Land Rover official sales and only 2 of the top 20 countries for sales are from countries getting subsidies.And the fct Land Rover sales are booming means we have no need to subsidise any sales.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't understand why so many people on here are slagging off UKIP & accusing them of being backward & yet cannot substantiate any of it.

UKIP are just righter-wing Tories.

UKIP believe in living within our means, other parties think that there is a money tree that will magically pay for everything.

UKIP believe in rich(er) people having whatever they want/ need and the devil take the rest.

The EU would be happy to let us trade with them without political union because they sell us more stuff , than they buy off us. Just common sense & if you want to slag off UKIP fine, just say exactly why.

Ya think? The sole purpose of the EU is large and enlarging political union. The trade stuff is a means to that end.

Try getting out of one bit of it without the other and see what befalls us."

Showing your ignorance I'm afraid. Many UKIP supporters are ex-Labour supporters. It is not about left or right, but about what's right for the country. You obviously believe in the magic money tree & you're obviously a Socialist. For those who are taxed at 40% the Government is confiscating well over half the money they earn & yet people like you think that they you think that they should pay even more. This is counter productive & the main reason why every Labour Government ends in financial disaster because they spend money like water & then when it runs out they think "lets tax the rich" but the rich don't pay because they're transient. So the burden goes on the working & middle classes. Socialists like to play the "class oppression" card, but the Labour party & the Socialist Eu has done more to hurt the Working class than Maggie Thatcher ever did. Very very happy to see what befalls us when we get out of the Socialist lunatic asylum that is the EU.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Bad example _nny. Look at the Land Rover official sales and only 2 of the top 20 countries for sales are from countries getting subsidies.And the fct Land Rover sales are booming means we have no need to subsidise any sales."

'Official' sales? What's that got to do with anything.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..........

Showing your ignorance I'm afraid. Many UKIP supporters are ex-Labour supporters. "

No doubt you have proof of that

"It is not about left or right, but about what's right for the country. ............ you're obviously a Socialist."

Yes.

" For those who are taxed at 40% the Government is confiscating well over half the money they earn & yet people like you think that they you think that they should pay even more. "

I think everyone should pay what they're due. If everyone who was supposed to pay at 40% paid at 40% and all the companies paid the correct amount of Corporation Tax before the Big 4 got their greasy paws on the numbers, we wouldn't have many of the problems we have.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Are you a lttle confused Onny? Yhe official sales site for Land Rover was where I got my figures from.We don't need to subsidise any sales they arte going through the roof.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Are you a lttle confused Onny? "

No.

" Yhe official sales site for Land Rover was where I got my figures from.

Do you really think official sales from the manufacturer include inter-government subsidised sales?

"We don't need to subsidise any sales they arte going through the roof. "

According to Taggarts, sales at the high end are booming but Defender models need all the help they can get.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"..........

Showing your ignorance I'm afraid. Many UKIP supporters are ex-Labour supporters.

No doubt you have proof of that

It is not about left or right, but about what's right for the country. ............ you're obviously a Socialist.

Yes.

For those who are taxed at 40% the Government is confiscating well over half the money they earn & yet people like you think that they you think that they should pay even more.

Plenty of ex-Labour supporters supporting UKIP after being shafted by the Labour Government.

Also Companies currently pay the correct amount of tax because their accountants make sure of that. It is all legal & therefore the correct amount. This is what happens when the EU is founded on political grounds & not economic grounds. Companies can chose where to domicile their HQ. Most plump for Luxemburg as it's cheapest. That means that they can get away with paying diddly squat in the UK-legally. If we weren't in the EU this wouldn't happen.

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By *lackshadow7Man
over a year ago

Toronto

"Whether it was meant to offend, it shows a small-minded and antiquated mindset. Its the sort of phrase my grandad might have used, not a 21st century politician in the public arena"

This

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Sales are sales Onny. However you like to dress it up.Tell me why don't we hand out more credits then if it's not money?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Yes, it was offensive. His assertions on women are sexist. His defence that he's a Yorkshireman telling it like it is and calling a spade a spade is the equivalent of "no offense but..." or "I'm not a racist but...".

As to the rest of this debate on this thread, just remember what colonialism did to much of the world. Reaping what you sow has consequences and arguments that "they" have had 50 years to sort themselves out misses the point completely.

The figures are presented as £money. As others have explained not much of that is cash and some, not all, is spent here on the machinery of aid. If countries just wrote off the debts the impact would be much greater than tinkering with aid. We also get the money back on countries servicing their debts to us.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"I don't understand why so many people on here are slagging off UKIP & accusing them of being backward & yet cannot substantiate any of it.

UKIP are just righter-wing Tories.

UKIP believe in living within our means, other parties think that there is a money tree that will magically pay for everything.

UKIP believe in rich(er) people having whatever they want/ need and the devil take the rest.

Ya think? The sole purpose of the EU is large and enlarging political union. The trade stuff is a means to that end.

Try getting out of one bit of it without the other and see what befalls us.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Also Companies currently pay the correct amount of tax because their accountants make sure of that. It is all legal & therefore the correct amount.

......... "

I genuinely hope I never have cause to remind you of that when the ambulance arrives too late to save someone you care about or your local hospital's ICU is full when you need a bed or there isn't a physician available "cos we can't employ EU doctors anymore".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do you think UKIP politician Godfrey Bloom’s use of the term “Bongo-Bongo-Land” to describe 3rd world countries was offence?

A Straw poll on MSN suggests 59% of 25000 people who voted thought it was harmless, while 41% thought it was hugely derogatory….!.

Massive PR coup for UKIP. Everyone's talking about them now.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Onny why couldn't we employ EU doctor's? We had foreign doctors before we joined the EU?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/08/13 15:41:27]

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

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By *rivate auditionsMan
over a year ago

West Midlands

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By *rivate auditionsMan
over a year ago

West Midlands

too bloody right mate!.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also Companies currently pay the correct amount of tax because their accountants make sure of that. It is all legal & therefore the correct amount.

.........

Before the EU & what they do in normal countries is they have work permits & trade agreements. We don't need the EU for those. In fact the EU restrict the hours Doctors can work, which is bad for patient care because it means that it is more likely a patient will see different Doctors rather than the same one.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do. "

As a member of the "PC Gang" I am not acting "fashionably" and do believe what I say, always. I know I was offended by his racist and sexist comments.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also Companies currently pay the correct amount of tax because their accountants make sure of that. It is all legal & therefore the correct amount.

.........

A country of 63 million people a novel idea but how about we train more doctors

Tell us also why we can't employ EU doctors ?

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By *rivate auditionsMan
over a year ago

West Midlands

[Removed by poster at 08/08/13 15:58:39]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

As a member of the "PC Gang" I am not acting "fashionably" and do believe what I say, always. I know I was offended by his racist and sexist comments.

Great idea we loan them money then give them money to pay us back the loan

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do. "

Oh please get over your self. You speak for your self only not everyone who has posted on this thread.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Of course I don't speak for everybody on this thread and neither do you.Fair enough. But I have met enough socalled liberals and lefties who are the biggest hypocrites on the planet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of course I don't speak for everybody on this thread and neither do you.Fair enough. But I have met enough socalled liberals and lefties who are the biggest hypocrites on the planet. "

And your point is???

Anyone that don't agree with your views is PC, fashionable, and a hypocrite? ??

Says so much about you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

As a member of the "PC Gang" I am not acting "fashionably" and do believe what I say, always. I know I was offended by his racist and sexist comments.

I'm sure all the people of Bongo Bongo Land share your outrage and are drumming up support at this very moment

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If this man is part of their new way of thinking I'm afraid his colonial language will bring UKIP to a grinding halt when they try to negotiate any foreign trade deals.

Undertones of racism have no part in any society. The man's a plank and his vaguely worded apology makes him sound patronising and even more racist with a fairly basic grasp of international economics

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

............ In fact the EU restrict the hours Doctors can work, which is bad for patient care because it means that it is more likely a patient will see different Doctors rather than the same one."

Would you really want to be seen by a medic who's been on duty for 30 - 40 hours?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do. "

Personal computers? Or are you trying to prove something?

If pc is being balanced and not racist then I'm guilty, however, being politically correct isn't anything to be ashamed of, otherwise we'd still have "Nig nogs, poofs, chinkies as spacky mongs"

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Can't see a doctor near me unless you plan your illness 2 weeks in advance. What is your point?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

As a member of the "PC Gang" I am not acting "fashionably" and do believe what I say, always. I know I was offended by his racist and sexist comments.

I'm sure all the people of Bongo Bongo Land share your outrage and are drumming up support at this very moment "

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

Personal computers? Or are you trying to prove something?

If pc is being balanced and not racist then I'm guilty, however, being politically correct isn't anything to be ashamed of, otherwise we'd still have "Nig nogs, poofs, chinkies as spacky mongs""
You introduced those offensive terms not me.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

As a member of the "PC Gang" I am not acting "fashionably" and do believe what I say, always. I know I was offended by his racist and sexist comments.

I'm sure all the people of Bongo Bongo Land share your outrage and are drumming up support at this very moment

Which was part of his defence too. And yet I remain offended by a man I find offensive. The good people of the countries he lumps together as bongo bongo land understand that there are racist politicians here and everywhere."
Which countries did he mention? Please tell me because I don't think he named one. Rather presumptious on your part isn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

............ In fact the EU restrict the hours Doctors can work, which is bad for patient care because it means that it is more likely a patient will see different Doctors rather than the same one.

Would you really want to be seen by a medic who's been on duty for 30 - 40 hours?

"
I was listening to the radio about this & a leading Doctor said that this was the case. I don't work for the NHS so I'll take what he says at face value. Oh & it was on the BBC.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

The BBC? The paedo protector channel which fakes most of it's shows? Lol.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"The BBC? The paedo protector channel which fakes most of it's shows? Lol. "

Never mind that. What about Charlotte Green getting the classifieds job without it being advertised?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

As a member of the "PC Gang" I am not acting "fashionably" and do believe what I say, always. I know I was offended by his racist and sexist comments.

I'm sure all the people of Bongo Bongo Land share your outrage and are drumming up support at this very moment

... in the same way as we realise there are corrupt politicians there and everywhere...

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

As a member of the "PC Gang" I am not acting "fashionably" and do believe what I say, always. I know I was offended by his racist and sexist comments.

I'm sure all the people of Bongo Bongo Land share your outrage and are drumming up support at this very moment

Which was part of his defence too. And yet I remain offended by a man I find offensive. The good people of the countries he lumps together as bongo bongo land understand that there are racist politicians here and everywhere. Which countries did he mention? Please tell me because I don't think he named one. Rather presumptious on your part isn't it?"

Where have I said he named a country? He lumped together bongo bongo land to combine countries that receive UK aid. Yes, it is presumptious of me. I make the presumption based on the tone and context of the speech, the previous usage of the term bongo bongo land and a broad understanding of the countries where UK aid is given.

Your presumption seems to be that he wasn't being racist, I am presuming. I take that only from your posts and not knowing you. Just as you don't know me. We go on that presented before us and we all make presumptions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/08/13 17:08:39]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

As a member of the "PC Gang" I am not acting "fashionably" and do believe what I say, always. I know I was offended by his racist and sexist comments.

I'm sure all the people of Bongo Bongo Land share your outrage and are drumming up support at this very moment

Which was part of his defence too. And yet I remain offended by a man I find offensive. The good people of the countries he lumps together as bongo bongo land understand that there are racist politicians here and everywhere. Which countries did he mention? Please tell me because I don't think he named one. Rather presumptious on your part isn't it?

The only country I think he mentioned - and not in the original speech which was recorded some weeks ago - was Pakistan, and that was in relation to the aforementioned squadron on F-18's. He singled them out for 'praise' on, at least, LBC in London yesterday (or the day before).

ted.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

As a member of the "PC Gang" I am not acting "fashionably" and do believe what I say, always. I know I was offended by his racist and sexist comments.

I'm sure all the people of Bongo Bongo Land share your outrage and are drumming up support at this very moment

... in the same way as we realise there are corrupt politicians there and everywhere...

Indeed. Anyone would think that there is not and never has been corruption, including of public funds, here. That large scale projects that have wasted billions of pounds never happens and that we are the only fit and proper parliament in the world.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

I think personally that he has done the electorate a great favour, in that he has alienated a great swathe of potential UKIP voters, who will now see for themselves that elements of UKIP are little different than the BNP or the EDL.

Farage must privately be seething....

I'm just smirking, they were always going to shoot themselves in the foot at some point.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Of course we do and long may that be the case. But exactly how do you know where he was referring to? I don't you and neither do you. If he said lalaland would you be offended? You know and so do I he was referring to dictators milking cash and don't pretend you don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

As a member of the "PC Gang" I am not acting "fashionably" and do believe what I say, always. I know I was offended by his racist and sexist comments.

I'm sure all the people of Bongo Bongo Land share your outrage and are drumming up support at this very moment

I'm sure they are more concerned with corruption and tribalism in their own politicians

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"I think personally that he has done the electorate a great favour, in that he has alienated a great swathe of potential UKIP voters, who will now see for themselves that elements of UKIP are little different than the BNP or the EDL.

Farage must privately be seething....

I'm just smirking, they were always going to shoot themselves in the foot at some point."
Are you kidding Sky forums could hardly fond a quote to slte him. Biggest boost for for UKIP i9n years.y

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

As a member of the "PC Gang" I am not acting "fashionably" and do believe what I say, always. I know I was offended by his racist and sexist comments.

I'm sure all the people of Bongo Bongo Land share your outrage and are drumming up support at this very moment

I'm sure they are more concerned with corruption and tribalism in their own politicians"
Do what they like but just don't use my money.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Farage must privately be seething....

I'm just smirking, they were always going to shoot themselves in the foot at some point. Are you kidding Sky forums could hardly fond a quote to slte him. Biggest boost for for UKIP i9n years.y"

I didn't understand your post, are you from overseas?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

As a member of the "PC Gang" I am not acting "fashionably" and do believe what I say, always. I know I was offended by his racist and sexist comments.

I'm sure all the people of Bongo Bongo Land share your outrage and are drumming up support at this very moment

... in the same way as we realise there are corrupt politicians there and everywhere...

The only real problem with Foreign 'Aid' is that OUR Government will not come clean and explain what it is REALLY there for - to grease the palms of some rather undesirable and, in some cases, despotic leaders in order to ingratiate relations with this country which may, or may not, lead to a benefit for THIS Country - but rarely the one where the Foreign 'Aid' is sent... The Italians 'get it'. Why the f**k can't we?

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Me?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Farage must privately be seething....

I'm just smirking, they were always going to shoot themselves in the foot at some point."

So long as they do it AFTER they've split the Tory vote I don't really mind.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

".......... The Italians 'get it'. Why the f**k can't we?

I believe Berlusconi is looking for a job.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".......... The Italians 'get it'. Why the f**k can't we?

I believe Berlusconi is looking for a job."

He got it in more ways than one. From Bonga-Bonga to Bunga-Bunga.... in one move!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Of course we do and long may that be the case. But exactly how do you know where he was referring to? I don't you and neither do you. If he said lalaland would you be offended? You know and so do I he was referring to dictators milking cash and don't pretend you don't."

Again, a presumption on your part about me. I'll leave that there. Whatever I say you presume to know that I know I am lying. I neither know nor believe such a thing. I stand by my first post on this thread.

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By *drianukMan
over a year ago

Spain, Lancs

I really despise the way his detractors all set out to bully him into not saying what he thought.

He says what people feel too afraid to say. There's something seriously wrong when people feel afraid to say what they think.

He has my support on principle.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Good for you. So do I. However I find it telling that nobody has given a straight yes or no answer to my question of whetherr or not we should spend our cash on our own struggling people first or the others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's good to see more people pissed off about someone's use of words and phrases. More pissed than they could be towards their taxes being squandered away in many foreign aid instances.

Yes it could've been worded better but no doubt even then he would've still been called a racist. How dare a UK taxpayer pose question or fact about where their taxes are going, especially when they're going outside the UK.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

[Removed by poster at 08/08/13 17:28:36]

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Foreign Aid in many cases means 'Oiling the wheels', political parties that have enjoyed power in the UK fully understand this, those parties that look on longingly from the shadows need to work that out.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's good to see more people pissed off about someone's use of words and phrases. More pissed than they could be towards their taxes being squandered away in many foreign aid instances."

Having worked in just one area of Public Sector purchasing, I can assure you that the waste within our shores far, far outweighs anything we may give, offer or throw at the Third World.

But no one gets as annoyed about that, do they....

ted.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

That doesn't make sense. Please elaborate

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Good for you. So do I. However I find it telling that nobody has given a straight yes or no answer to my question of whetherr or not we should spend our cash on our own struggling people first or the others."

Here is my answer: we do spend cash on our own people first. Aid is not the most significant part of the budget of this country at 0.56%. Just over half a percent. There are plenty of other things that could be scrapped, capped and reworked to get more than that back into use on the people of this country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pc gang at work. I don't think deep down they really believe what they say. Just the fashionable thing to do.

Personal computers? Or are you trying to prove something?

You mentioned pc as being fashionable, I was pointing out if it wasn't for being pc we'd still have all these terms. So technically if you're

Against being politically correct then you're happy with those politically incorrect terms.

The man in question used an offensive term to describe African nations intentionally.

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

WelL, that makes no sense at all. I thought I pointed out that certain terms were offensive.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"..........

The man in question used an offensive term to describe African nations intentionally. "

Just a thought.

If he KNEW it was an offensive term, we he being racist or just generally offensive by using it?

BTW, I'm not convinced bongo-bongo is just about African nations. I reckon it included places like the South Sea Islands.

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By *uthTVDerbysTV/TS
over a year ago

Derby

If this helps.

I recently have returned from a holiday of a lifetime in the Congo. And I can wholeheartedly confirm they do NOT drink Um Bongo there.

This came as quite a shock having been told "facts" to the contrary.

It's not just politicians spreading misinformation then ...

Thanks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"
well we are struggling to do that at the moment borrowing is over a trillion and growing . As a country we live beyond our means as most of us would recognise from our own housekeeping

Let down by politicians of the 3 major parties for years

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Slightly off thread, but it does make a fair point about the mind set in parts of Africa.

Just watching Sky news and the banner headline reads.

"Officials in Kenya say 1st responders to the Nairobi airport fire looted shops and a bank"

Rob it 1st put the fire out later

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's good to see more people pissed off about someone's use of words and phrases. More pissed than they could be towards their taxes being squandered away in many foreign aid instances.

Having worked in just one area of Public Sector purchasing, I can assure you that the waste within our shores far, far outweighs anything we may give, offer or throw at the Third World.

But no one gets as annoyed about that, do they....

ted."

**********

Apologies lets not be bothered about foreign aid waste then

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Well how would we know if he knew it was an offensive term then? Blimey this is getting barmy. The bottom line is was he correct in saying (in some people's minds) subsiding other counties economies is right while we have people on less than the breadline here? Nobody seems willing to answer a simple question.Do you subsidise foreign firms or our own companies? I'd rather supprot a Remploy Employee (disabled people) in the UK than someone elsewhre?

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"If this helps.

I recently have returned from a holiday of a lifetime in the Congo. And I can wholeheartedly confirm they do NOT drink Um Bongo there.

This came as quite a shock having been told "facts" to the contrary.

It's not just politicians spreading misinformation then ...

Thanks"
Thanks th\t was really helpful

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Slightly off thread, but it does make a fair point about the mind set in parts of Africa.

Just watching Sky news and the banner headline reads.

"Officials in Kenya say 1st responders to the Nairobi airport fire looted shops and a bank"

Rob it 1st put the fire out later"

How is that different to the riots here two years ago?

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By *uthTVDerbysTV/TS
over a year ago

Derby

"If this helps.

Thanks Thanks th\t was really helpful

Glad you appreciated it. Also can I just say - regarding that Congo holiday of a lifetime?

I'll tell you what .. never again.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Well how would we know if he knew it was an offensive term then? Blimey this is getting barmy. The bottom line is was he correct in saying (in some people's minds) subsiding other counties economies is right while we have people on less than the breadline here? Nobody seems willing to answer a simple question.Do you subsidise foreign firms or our own companies? I'd rather supprot a Remploy Employee (disabled people) in the UK than someone elsewhre?"

My point is that they are not mutually exclusive. Others have made the point that aid is used to grease the wheels and comes back here in other ways. We could argue all day on the points about subsidising foreign firms or our own companies. Yes, we do subsidise foreign firms in the tax regimes we give them to operate here. We let firms pay low wages and top up the pay with benefits so that they stay here.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Here's my question for those that are saying that bongo bongo land is fictional and therefore not racist - how are we, the UK, sending aid money to this fictional land?

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By *uthTVDerbysTV/TS
over a year ago

Derby

Very true - and just as importantly - how many Bongians is Britain allowing into this country.

its just plain Bong-kers

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

So now I subsidise British Companies to export goods to other countries then? Load of twaddle. Please put on here the facts and figures because with all due respect I don't believe it.I I am wrong then fine So you seriously believe our balance of payments would be in trouble if we don't help give free goods to other countries? Oh pull the other one please.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is Mr Bloom a real person? He seems to be the cousin of Harry Enfields character, George "Integrity" Whitebread. No offence!

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By *obbygggMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Thanks for that. Very enlighteningly

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"So now I subsidise British Companies to export goods to other countries then? Load of twaddle. Please put on here the facts and figures because with all due respect I don't believe it.I I am wrong then fine So you seriously believe our balance of payments would be in trouble if we don't help give free goods to other countries? Oh pull the other one please."

Others have posted on this. You have made it clear that no argument will change your views (just my presumption of course). You challenged to answer your question on whether people would rather support people here or abroad, when that has been answered it's not the answer you want (I presume, of course). You haven't returned the courtesy of answering my question on how a fictional land is receiving foreign aid.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Oo'er,,,,,well if I've played this right,,,,

I've got the first post in this and the last one....,,,,,,

But just in-case I haven't,,,,and someone slips one in behind me...

Well that was fun anyway!!!,,,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You don't seem to get the point lickety is making. In fact you don't seem to understand anyone that you don't agree with and come up with your own assumptions.

You need to come out of the closet

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