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Crown Prosecution Service

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

A barrister acting for the crown has actually called a 13 year old child who was being sexually abused as being predatory! The judge in the case agreed and gave the defendant a suspended sentence. How in gods name can a child be labelled such and be accused of being compliant in quite horrendous sexual abuse? The world is mad.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

this is in no way taking away from the fact that this child was abused but the form some abused people can take is to become abusers. im quite sure that if the barrister made this alligation he/she had evidence that pointed to this fact and if it was as im guessing just because she was abused dosnt make it alright for her to abuse others.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

No the child was the subject of abuse by a 41 year old man. Both the crown barrister and the judge agreed the child was predatory. My point is how can a child be accused of that she is a child and deserves the protection of the law. She was not on trial the man who abused her was. Its a sad day for the justice system when a child cannot count on for protection.

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By *ucy and CarlCouple
over a year ago

Broadstairs

What case is this and where has this information come from

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"What case is this and where has this information come from"
Its a case in London and was on the Today programme this morning.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

just because you are a minor dosnt make your actions ok.

just because your a victim dosnt mean its ok to abuse back on others.

im quite sure if a barrister has made a statement that he believes a 13 year old to be pradatory its because he believes her to be predatory.by the same token the judge.

just because someone has been abused it dosnt give them carte blanche to repay this on others as has been said dont know which case your refering to my pont is no matter what your age you can be a whole host of things look at the jamie bulger case and tell me these boys were sweet innocents.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The case is on the BBC news web page.

It seems very strange a prosecuting barrister would say those things about their client. The case is being referred for sentence review due to its leniancy. By the way, the judges sentence was based on the prosecutors statements.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Its the courts duty to protect children not accuse them. Its a disgrace and the barrister and judge should be disbarred.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Going by the gist of whats written on bbc news the 13 year old 'looked and acted older than she was' and 'was sexually active'. That in my eyes does not make her predatory. She is only 13 and if she was sexually active at that age then somebody had to expose her to that. I can't see how she could be held anyway responsible for the abuse she suffered. Some of these judges really need to take a look at what they are saying before they open their gobs

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Going by the gist of whats written on bbc news the 13 year old 'looked and acted older than she was' and 'was sexually active'. That in my eyes does not make her predatory. She is only 13 and if she was sexually active at that age then somebody had to expose her to that. I can't see how she could be held anyway responsible for the abuse she suffered. Some of these judges really need to take a look at what they are saying before they open their gobs "
Well said!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Going by the gist of whats written on bbc news the 13 year old 'looked and acted older than she was' and 'was sexually active'. That in my eyes does not make her predatory. She is only 13 and if she was sexually active at that age then somebody had to expose her to that. I can't see how she could be held anyway responsible for the abuse she suffered. Some of these judges really need to take a look at what they are saying before they open their gobs "

What if she was sexually active with her peers? And then decided herself to pursue what she wanted?

I'm not condoning what this man did, I find the whole idea abhorrent but with regard to the judges and prosecution barrister have we seen their perspective? Is there a context to put there arguments into? Just to better understand why they said what they said?

It's all too easy to 'shoot from the hip' when it comes to this type of thing, especially when children are involved. But the principles are simple and used by our courts everyday as a fundamental rule; get the facts first before we make a judgement.

If after all the facts and evidence has come to light and you're still of the same opinion as before then so be it.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

The 'facts' won' come to light 'cos she's a minor.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Won't

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Going by the gist of whats written on bbc news the 13 year old 'looked and acted older than she was' and 'was sexually active'. That in my eyes does not make her predatory. She is only 13 and if she was sexually active at that age then somebody had to expose her to that. I can't see how she could be held anyway responsible for the abuse she suffered. Some of these judges really need to take a look at what they are saying before they open their gobs

What if she was sexually active with her peers? And then decided herself to pursue what she wanted?

I'm not condoning what this man did, I find the whole idea abhorrent but with regard to the judges and prosecution barrister have we seen their perspective? Is there a context to put there arguments into? Just to better understand why they said what they said?

It's all too easy to 'shoot from the hip' when it comes to this type of thing, especially when children are involved. But the principles are simple and used by our courts everyday as a fundamental rule; get the facts first before we make a judgement.

If after all the facts and evidence has come to light and you're still of the same opinion as before then so be it.

"
Sexual activity with a child (13 years old is a child) is wholly wrong and of course illegal. The court report will be published in due course as its a public domain document (save for anonymity)and if shooting from the hip is akin to child protection and lambasting the judiciary for failing to provide protection then so be it. The facts are a 41 year old man indulged in sexual activity with a child and a judge and Queens Counsel the latter was actually prosecuting the crime agreed that the child was in part to blame. Its a total disgrace and the both the Judge and the QC should never be allowed in a court room again. No child should be subjected to such abuse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Going by the gist of whats written on bbc news the 13 year old 'looked and acted older than she was' and 'was sexually active'. That in my eyes does not make her predatory. She is only 13 and if she was sexually active at that age then somebody had to expose her to that. I can't see how she could be held anyway responsible for the abuse she suffered. Some of these judges really need to take a look at what they are saying before they open their gobs "

This is what I have read about it also. It was still an adult that took advantage of a child regardless of wether she was sexually active or not does not come in to it. He still took an advantage of her and could of stopped it before it even started rather than go on to abuse her.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I understand the barrister said it. He is not a QC as stated by the BBC.

I dont think the Judge said such comments but made reference to her being a bit more advanced for her age.

The CPS are investigating.

I would have thought it would have been the defence barrister saying it if anybody! very bizzarre

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

At first hearing, I'm astounded by these comments. There must be a reason why the barrister involved should make a fantastic statement like this, but owing to the age of the person involved, I doubt we shall ever get to the bottom of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Half truths and media spin are not a basement for sound judgement. Not all 13 year old's are innocent, not all 41 year old's are competent.

Not saying any more as don't know enough to have an opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Half truths and media spin are not a basement for sound judgement. Not all 13 year old's are innocent, not all 41 year old's are competent.

Not saying any more as don't know enough to have an opinion. "
13 year olds are children and not capable of choosing to enter into a sexual relationship.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Half truths and media spin are not a basement for sound judgement. Not all 13 year old's are innocent, not all 41 year old's are competent.

Not saying any more as don't know enough to have an opinion. 13 year olds are children and not capable of choosing to enter into a sexual relationship. "

I dont think it is right to Judge purely on age. I agree we should protect the young and vulnerable. I also think the comments were not warranted but I do anticipate there being some reason for the comments. Being 13 alone doesnt mean they are innocent as said above

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Half truths and media spin are not a basement for sound judgement. Not all 13 year old's are innocent, not all 41 year old's are competent.

Not saying any more as don't know enough to have an opinion. 13 year olds are children and not capable of choosing to enter into a sexual relationship. "

have you seen many 13 year olds now. I have children this age. Some of their friends terrify me with their sexual prowess, the way they actually talk and act..

And I know at that age I looked much much older... Although I wasn't active.

Without knowing everything, I think there must have been tone element of the youngster chasing the older guy.

I have read it and seen it a few times where underage girls have met guys in places they shouldn't really be and it's only after things have happened that they admit their real age... Or the guy gets caught.

I'm only guessing this is the sort of thing they mean..but honestly not all underage people are innocent sexually.. and has nothing to do with them being abused..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The only way this man could be deemed innocent of the abuse is if he merely had sexual relations with the child thinking she was a consenting 16+. The fact the defendant was found to have extreme child pornography on his computer negates such claims. In fact he should have had a custodial sentence at least for that.

Even if the child is promiscuous the defendant is guilty! Consider this: if a woman is dressed like a slut does she deserve to be raped when she has said no to sex? No she doesn't! My point is the child is saying no to sex via the laws of our land, no matter how she acts, dresses or what she says".

From non vanilla cupcake

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Half truths and media spin are not a basement for sound judgement. Not all 13 year old's are innocent, not all 41 year old's are competent.

Not saying any more as don't know enough to have an opinion. 13 year olds are children and not capable of choosing to enter into a sexual relationship.

have you seen many 13 year olds now. I have children this age. Some of their friends terrify me with their sexual prowess, the way they actually talk and act..

And I know at that age I looked much much older... Although I wasn't active.

Without knowing everything, I think there must have been tone element of the youngster chasing the older guy.

I have read it and seen it a few times where underage girls have met guys in places they shouldn't really be and it's only after things have happened that they admit their real age... Or the guy gets caught.

I'm only guessing this is the sort of thing they mean..but honestly not all underage people are innocent sexually.. and has nothing to do with them being abused.. "

Going on from that I tell my lads to stay clear of girls looking around the 18 mark unless they know they're 18 and above. If in doubt go for the older ones!!

Taking in mind they meet these girls down town on a Thursday/Friday night usually in Liquids. You can't use the argument of 'why were they in there in the first place'?

A couple of lads have in the past photographed the girls ID and videoed them saying they give full consent!! (I didnt suggest they do that)! Bit extreme I know, but I don't want to come in on a Monday morning hearing one of them's banged up for doing something they shouldn't with a minor.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't think anyone is arguing that the man is guilty, but from many years working night club doors, trying to spot fake ID's on under age people trying to get into an 18+ club I considered my self pretty good at it, probably spotted 90% of males and if I was honest 50 - 60% females, some you never catch, some show up their age by behaviour once inside.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Going on from that I tell my lads to stay clear of girls looking around the 18 mark unless they know they're 18 and above. If in doubt go for the older ones!!

Taking in mind they meet these girls down town on a Thursday/Friday night usually in Liquids. You can't use the argument of 'why were they in there in the first place'?

A couple of lads have in the past photographed the girls ID and videoed them saying they give full consent!! (I didnt suggest they do that)! Bit extreme I know, but I don't want to come in on a Monday morning hearing one of them's banged up for doing something they shouldn't with a minor. "

it's a sad thing that even with Id they could still find themselves in hot water. And you would think the fault would lie with the club's etc for letting them in...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

second thoughts change the word honest to optimistic on my last post

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By *lackshadow7Man
over a year ago

Toronto


"13 year olds are children and not capable of choosing to enter into a sexual relationship. "

Guessing you don't know many 13 years okds today then. Some are already engaging in full sexual relationships with their own age group. Consentually.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Lolita syndrome is not a new idea even in the court of law. I recall a case where a victim was called a Lolita. It caused public uproar. Which is why I am amazed the Judge took those comments into account. ALL public servants should undertake child awareness training in my opinion.

Some of you seem to think the barrister must have evidence to come out with his inappropriate language. How about considering that paedophilial tendendencies occur at all levels of society, including the upper echelons of the justice system.

Not me posting!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stuff like this pisses me of so much. The bloke should be hung drawn and quartered.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"Stuff like this pisses me of so much. The bloke should be hung drawn and quartered. "
Sad sad statement lets be honest we dont know anything other than he had sex with a minor we dont know if at the time he believed her to be at consensual age we dont know where they met we dont know what extreme pornographic images are ive a feeling in a court most of us would be deemed as having extreme pornographic pictures im sure if things were said they were said for a reason whether inapprpiotly put or not in another time another age folks would have screamed for yourself to be hung drawn and quartered without listening to sound reasoning just my opinion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hope that judge gets the boot

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"just because you are a minor dosnt make your actions ok.

just because your a victim dosnt mean its ok to abuse back on others.

im quite sure if a barrister has made a statement that he believes a 13 year old to be pradatory its because he believes her to be predatory.by the same token the judge.

just because someone has been abused it dosnt give them carte blanche to repay this on others as has been said dont know which case your refering to my pont is no matter what your age you can be a whole host of things look at the jamie bulger case and tell me these boys were sweet innocents. "

You're missing the point. A CHILD was abused by a MAN.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"just because you are a minor dosnt make your actions ok.

just because your a victim dosnt mean its ok to abuse back on others.

im quite sure if a barrister has made a statement that he believes a 13 year old to be pradatory its because he believes her to be predatory.by the same token the judge.

just because someone has been abused it dosnt give them carte blanche to repay this on others as has been said dont know which case your refering to my pont is no matter what your age you can be a whole host of things look at the jamie bulger case and tell me these boys were sweet innocents.

You're missing the point. A CHILD was abused by a MAN. "

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"Half truths and media spin are not a basement for sound judgement. Not all 13 year old's are innocent, not all 41 year old's are competent.

Not saying any more as don't know enough to have an opinion. 13 year olds are children and not capable of choosing to enter into a sexual relationship.

I dont think it is right to Judge purely on age. I agree we should protect the young and vulnerable. I also think the comments were not warranted but I do anticipate there being some reason for the comments. Being 13 alone doesnt mean they are innocent as said above"

Amazing!

Totally amazing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

some of the comments on hear are deeply troubling.. deeply

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

The BBC originally promoted the barrister to QC status.

The reporting appears not to be from the court records but from the CPS. The concerns are not just about the horrendous language used but on how this case has come to light. Given the age of the child reporting would have been restricted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's no excuse for what that man has done to this 13 year old girl its still abuse no matter what but on the other hand I've seen for myself young under aged girls dressing up in shirt skirts a bit of make-up push up bras and walk into clubs without even being ID then flirting with every bloke they can all im saying is there's 2 sides to every story x

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"There's no excuse for what that man has done to this 13 year old girl its still abuse no matter what but on the other hand I've seen for myself young under aged girls dressing up in shirt skirts a bit of make-up push up bras and walk into clubs without even being ID then flirting with every bloke they can all im saying is there's 2 sides to every story x"

One of those sides being that club owners should ask for ID and horny men should check if in doubt. Another side being that at 13 you are testing your boundaries and not fully thinking through your actions or their consequences. That one might be the definition of child.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

At the risk of incurring the wrath of Fabsters, and not have sat through the whole trial, I'm prepared to accept the judge's decision and not that of the hang-em and flog-em press.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"just because you are a minor dosnt make your actions ok.

just because your a victim dosnt mean its ok to abuse back on others.

im quite sure if a barrister has made a statement that he believes a 13 year old to be pradatory its because he believes her to be predatory.by the same token the judge.

just because someone has been abused it dosnt give them carte blanche to repay this on others as has been said dont know which case your refering to my pont is no matter what your age you can be a whole host of things look at the jamie bulger case and tell me these boys were sweet innocents.

You're missing the point. A CHILD was abused by a MAN.

"
a child has been abused of that there is no doubt.its the circumstances that are in question here and me personally i find it troubling at the crys of lynch him when you or i dont know the facts of the case who is to say he didnt meet her in an over 18s nightclub before moving on to his home the pictures im quite sure you have some graphic pictures of your own best not to pass judgement when you dont understand all the angles surrounding the case

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"just because you are a minor dosnt make your actions ok.

just because your a victim dosnt mean its ok to abuse back on others.

im quite sure if a barrister has made a statement that he believes a 13 year old to be pradatory its because he believes her to be predatory.by the same token the judge.

just because someone has been abused it dosnt give them carte blanche to repay this on others as has been said dont know which case your refering to my pont is no matter what your age you can be a whole host of things look at the jamie bulger case and tell me these boys were sweet innocents.

You're missing the point. A CHILD was abused by a MAN. "

What happens if said man is a vulnerable adult with the iq of a 10 year old? As has been said we don't know enough about the case and probably never will.

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By *atasha_DavidCouple
over a year ago

Slough


"The bloke should be hung drawn and quartered. "


"some of the comments on hear are deeply troubling.. deeply"

Oh the irony

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By *he MuncherMan
over a year ago

Dundee


"A barrister acting for the crown has actually called a 13 year old child who was being sexually abused as being predatory! The judge in the case agreed and gave the defendant a suspended sentence. How in gods name can a child be labelled such and be accused of being compliant in quite horrendous sexual abuse? The world is mad."

I won't comment on the Individual case However Sex with anyone UNDER THE LEGAL AGE LIMIT is wrong, Also so is SEX With VULNERABLE people that being said as a Karate and Kickboxing Instructor who teaches Kids and Adults i do know of 2 or 3 cases where Young girls have been asked to leave the club because they were PREDATORY.

This is a very difficult situation and as has already been said WE do not know the full facts in this matter, I do share the outrage but am wise enough to know there is more than one side to any story.

I would hope that as adults and responsible ones we would all ensure that anyone committing this sort of crime be informed to the police.

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By *atasha_DavidCouple
over a year ago

Slough

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23597224

The Crown Prosecution Service has criticised a barrister acting on its behalf for describing a 13-year-old sex abuse victim in court as "predatory".

The Attorney General's Office said the sentence had been drawn to its attention as "possibly unduly lenient".

Neil Wilson, 41, admitted abusing a 13 yr old girl at his home in Romford, London, and was given a suspended jail term.

Mr Colover, who was representing the CPS at Wilson's sentencing hearing at London's Snaresbrook Crown Court on Monday, said: "The girl is predatory in all her actions and she is sexually experienced."

The judge, Nigel Peters, said that when deciding Wilson's punishment, he had taken into account the prosecution's comments that the girl looked and behaved older than she was. Wilson's eight-month jail term was suspended for two years.

Speaking about Mr Colover's remarks, a CPS spokesman said: "The language used by prosecution counsel was inappropriate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Take a look in the local press these past few days of the Girls and boys at their Prom nights and can anyone honestly say they could tell the age if any of those girls the way they are dressed up I think not

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By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield

She may have looked and behaved older but how much older? 16? 17? 18? I doubt a 13yr old would be capable of appearing much older than that.

The man convicted was 41 not 23. It may be legal for a 40 yr old to have intercourse with a 16yr old but what light does that paint the 40yr old in? I would be dubious of someone of my age who started a relationship with someone so much younger and would question their motivation.

He was found guilty of posting pornographic images of her online as well as sexual intercourse with a child.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I've just been ready Johnny Cooper's comments on this. The CPS have not said what was in the briefing they gave the barrister. He argues until that is clear it's difficult to see whether condemnation belongs with the barrister or with the CPS.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again not me posting;

If you read further stories regarding the case they state "she stripped out of her school uniform...", "the judge recognised she looked older... 14 to 15... But defendant's guilty plea acknowledges she was still under age", "images found on his computer depicted CHILD ABUSE and bestiality".

Consider that if these stories are fabrication the media involved can be sued.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think this is another of those times where the press will deliver information designed to create a reaction without necessarily revealing the whole story. I Doubt the case and the judgement all hinged on this one word and I'd like to know the contact.

Those of you who want them all "hung drawn and quartered" might want to put down your pitchforks and have a look for some facts first. This case has been referred and will be looked at. The sentencing in any case is based on circumstances and although this may be deemed to be light without knowing the case we can't say for sure.

I'd be interested to know which one of the players here have said 13 is top young have also posted the Bolger killers knew what they were doing. Legal ages are often arbitrary and one persons 13 is another's 21 and another's 9.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Again not me posting;

If you read further stories regarding the case they state "she stripped out of her school uniform...", "the judge recognised she looked older... 14 to 15... But defendant's guilty plea acknowledges she was still under age", "images found on his computer depicted CHILD ABUSE and bestiality".

Consider that if these stories are fabrication the media involved can be sued."

They may not be fabrication but highly selective reporting always makes things seem worse.

Child abuse images and bestiality are seperate crimes and have nothing to do with having sex with someone who's underage, a person can wear school uniform when they're 18 years old as lots of 6th forms still have school uniform. People are notoriously unreliable at judging ages the further they are from that age. And that moves in any direction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And the cps have now reviewing... Judge pulled from dealing with similar cases....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"And the cps have now reviewing... Judge pulled from dealing with similar cases...."

And hopefully they'll review the case using facts and not just respond to the baying mob. This is all about context

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Progress.

We've gone from (I paraphrase) 'he should be hanged' to 'let's get the facts' in just 8 hours.

Hope for personkind after all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Posted we didn't have all the facts after one hour, that's well before the guy the judge and judiciary all got hung drawn and quartered.

Guess there will never be reason when the media spin out half a story.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it's all part of the "it boils my piss" approach to anything people don't agree with and if they can find a story that supports that view then off they go!

Sadly it means that they've often made up their minds with very few of the facts.

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By *ngieandMrManCouple
over a year ago

hereford

On a par, a true life story to think about.

A female child between the age of about 9 to 11 was the subject of a paedophile.

The child went willingly to see the paedophile and enjoyed everything that occurred being completely ignorant of both legal and moral implications.

Part of the attraction was that the paedophile made the child feel very special, wanted and SAFE. This was in complete contrast to the mother of the child who was physically and mentally abusive.

The question is this... who do you want to hang first? Who do you want to hang the highest?

The paedophile for its apparent mental issues?

The abusive mother who made the paedophile seem like a better deal to the child.

The child, after all, it went willingly and wantonly making the crime possible.

I don't think there is any 'right' answer to the questions, because the whole thing occurred as a result of conspiring circumstances, change any factor and chances are it would never have happened.

The really ironic thing about it is what did the most damage to the child, what caused the child the most pain? The answer to that question is 'society'!

Because when the child became an adult it realised, forced on it by society, that the things it enjoyed as a child were wrong, disgusting, perverted and illegal and so she spent the next 30 odd years hating herself.

Nowadays the paedophile is dead (natural causes in case anyone is wondering).

The mother lives in guilt of the way it abused her child while knowing nothing of the paedophile incidents.

The child now an adult has rationalised it all and lives a perfectly normal happy life.

If it wasn't for how the public, society and the media react to these types of issues the 'victim' would not have suffered at all.

So to all those shouting the odds about a subject that most know nothing about, try sparing a thought for all the victims of what you call abuse, because for the most part all you are doing is ADDING to it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am reading everything everyone says, and at this junction all I can think of is, if the child in question had indeed got into a club with fake ID at the age of 13, where did the child's patents think they were... why did they allow her out.

If my child at the age of 13 was going out like that I would be insisting on knowing the ins and outs of where they are and with whom they were with. I would also make sure they were home by a certain time (in some hope of putting off any potential predators ) .....

Whilst yes what the man did was wrong and he should be charged and punished accordingly, there is always more then one side to every story, we all know this.

S

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"some of the comments on hear are deeply troubling.. deeply"

I'd be very wary meeting some of the men commenting on this thread. If they think a child can be predatory lord knows how they view women on a swingers site. Meet them at your peril!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

THe member of the CPS involved in the case has now been removed from all such cases

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I just cannot believe that some FAB members would try and excuse what has happened here and would blame the press for incitement. The facts are a 41 year old man conducted sexual activity with a 13 year old girl. It matters not one jot about what the child looked like or her personality the fact is that the child was abused and the judiciary failed to ensure she was protected and that she was implicit in the crime; quite outrageous. I think one lady in an above post had concerns at some trying to justify this situation which I are very valid. A judge and a barrister have damaged child protection in this country and both should be removed from their respective positions.

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

[Removed by poster at 07/08/13 21:35:23]

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge


"some of the comments on hear are deeply troubling.. deeply

I'd be very wary meeting some of the men commenting on this thread. If they think a child can be predatory lord knows how they view women on a swingers site. Meet them at your peril!

"
as would i be wary of meeting some of the baying mob on this site. fact no one knows the ins and outs of this case but certain people all want the guy hung drawn and quartered the little girl is the victim of abuse no question on this but how it came to pass has many unanswered questions that no one on this thread knows perhaps extenuating circumstances have lead to the shortened sentence the man recieved or perhaps not the simple fact is we DONT know the facts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just had another thought on this case - has anyone thought how many other victims of abuse will be put off reporting it, in fear that they will be called predatory?

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge


"A barrister acting for the crown has actually called a 13 year old child who was being sexually abused as being predatory! The judge in the case agreed and gave the defendant a suspended sentence. How in gods name can a child be labelled such and be accused of being compliant in quite horrendous sexual abuse? The world is mad."

Try reading a book called; "Carnal Knowledge: Rape on Trial". Comments like that have been made before about young girls msny times. Sadly.

Female victims are often blamed. For girls under age they are often portrayed as little Lolitas ensnaring unsuspecting men.

And before anyone jumps in about male victims I said that as the book is about female victims.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I am reading everything everyone says, and at this junction all I can think of is, if the child in question had indeed got into a club with fake ID at the age of 13, where did the child's patents think they were... why did they allow her out.

If my child at the age of 13 was going out like that I would be insisting on knowing the ins and outs of where they are and with whom they were with. I would also make sure they were home by a certain time (in some hope of putting off any potential predators ) .....

Whilst yes what the man did was wrong and he should be charged and punished accordingly, there is always more then one side to every story, we all know this.

S

"

My first thoughts whenever these stories break is where are the parents in this. Yes, bad things happen and parents can't police their children 24 hours of every day. Thirteen and out at a NIGHT club is something you would reasonably expect parents to be able to control.

Neglected children don't just look hungry and abused. Mental parental neglect of the important job of parenting leads to young people seeking succour elsewhere.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"some of the comments on hear are deeply troubling.. deeply

I'd be very wary meeting some of the men commenting on this thread. If they think a child can be predatory lord knows how they view women on a swingers site. Meet them at your peril!

"

I think most people were saying

We should wait for all the facts to come out as the information may well not be all there or correct. None of us sat thought the trial so actually have no idea what was said by whom about what. We have one thing and that's it. No one is saying he's not guilty of this (including the judge by the way)

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By *andWCouple
over a year ago

Pontypridd


"Half truths and media spin are not a basement for sound judgement. Not all 13 year old's are innocent, not all 41 year old's are competent.

Not saying any more as don't know enough to have an opinion. 13 year olds are children and not capable of choosing to enter into a sexual relationship.

have you seen many 13 year olds now. I have children this age. Some of their friends terrify me with their sexual prowess, the way they actually talk and act..

And I know at that age I looked much much older... Although I wasn't active.

Without knowing everything, I think there must have been tone element of the youngster chasing the older guy.

I have read it and seen it a few times where underage girls have met guys in places they shouldn't really be and it's only after things have happened that they admit their real age... Or the guy gets caught.

I'm only guessing this is the sort of thing they mean..but honestly not all underage people are innocent sexually.. and has nothing to do with them being abused.. "

Really?? I have a child the same age and I'm trying to sew together her favourite teddy bear! I myself at 13 had no idea what oral sex was, I don't think all teenagers are what society makes them out to be thankgod!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For legal reasons it is necessary to define an age of consent. It is generally assumed under this age the person is a child and above an adult. A quick glance around the world will show that there many different views on age of consent from puberty and 13 to 21. So in some countries it would not have been a crime and in other countries their jails would be full of Brits who had sex below their age of consent.

I am not aware of the circumstances of this case but I would like to think the Judge would have exercised proper judgement based on the evidence.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge


"For legal reasons it is necessary to define an age of consent. It is generally assumed under this age the person is a child and above an adult. A quick glance around the world will show that there many different views on age of consent from puberty and 13 to 21. So in some countries it would not have been a crime and in other countries their jails would be full of Brits who had sex below their age of consent.

I am not aware of the circumstances of this case but I would like to think the Judge would have exercised proper judgement based on the evidence. "

We would all like to think that but the reality is that they are not always as infallible and unbiased as we would like.

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By *ngieandMrManCouple
over a year ago

hereford

Good to see others mention parenting. I'm not suggesting that the offender shouldn't be processed but I really do think people should try and look at the bigger picture and take more responsibility rather than trying to lay all the blame on the one.

The child is 13, she is making decisions, she is making happen things she wants to happen. Most 13 year-old girls do not dress up to be sexually attractive to older men and then make a calculated plan to cheat access to a venue where she might find what she wants... or at least 'thinks' she wants! It would seem that the 'victim' played a very significant part in procuring the incident.

The parents of the victim... how is it possible for a 13 year-old to have the finances for the clothing, make up etc. How is it the child is not at home during night club hours?

What about the club owners/operators/staff?

What about the child's friends? The victim had probably spent a week or two planning the night out... and she never said ANYTHING about it to anyone?

OK so I know I'm going to get a pasting for this but... there is a big difference between and armed robber and the person who pockets the £10 note they found on the seat of the bus, given suitable temptation anyone may become a thief.

How can it be said that the victim did not do her best to make this happen? As it seems that she did all she could to temp it?

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs

5live drive earlier this evening held an interview with I think it was a court reporter who was in the court for this case, he said that this case only came to light when her friend received a text from her telling of how she'd had sex with a guy..

she hadn't reported it herself, she'd been roaming Romford High street after bunking off from school trying to get people to buy cigarettes for her and he agreed, he invited her for coffee and sometime later they'd texted each other and he'd texted that they couldn't have sex as they'd get in to trouble,she was pushing it.. sadly that is why the world predator and despite it's connotations was used and seemed to fit... link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b037v15w

it's about 40 mins in to the prog, listen for yourself.

I was somewhat gob smacked!

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

He should still have said no. She's the child. He's the adult.

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs


"some of the comments on hear are deeply troubling.. deeply

I'd be very wary meeting some of the men commenting on this thread. If they think a child can be predatory lord knows how they view women on a swingers site. Meet them at your peril!

I think most people were saying

We should wait for all the facts to come out as the information may well not be all there or correct. None of us sat thought the trial so actually have no idea what was said by whom about what. We have one thing and that's it. No one is saying he's not guilty of this (including the judge by the way)"

he's guilty of having sex with a minor! end of! no matter how much or whatever part she played he shouldn't of done it...

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By *john121Man
over a year ago

staffs


"He should still have said no. She's the child. He's the adult. "

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"5live drive earlier this evening held an interview with I think it was a court reporter who was in the court for this case, he said that this case only came to light when her friend received a text from her telling of how she'd had sex with a guy..

she hadn't reported it herself, she'd been roaming Romford High street after bunking off from school trying to get people to buy cigarettes for her and he agreed, he invited her for coffee and sometime later they'd texted each other and he'd texted that they couldn't have sex as they'd get in to trouble,she was pushing it.. sadly that is why the world predator and despite it's connotations was used and seemed to fit... link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b037v15w

it's about 40 mins in to the prog, listen for yourself.

I was somewhat gob smacked!"

At thirteen I was desperate to lose my virginity. I had all these hormones rushing around and very little displays of love or caring to draw upon. I didn't lose my virginity, thankfully, as it was not possible for me to get out and meet men late at night. My parents knew where I was and I understood that desperate as I felt I would not be able to get out.

I had two incidents that left me feeling cross and embarrassed at that time. A family event where I met the rather glamorous and slightly famous sibling of someone there and a new very dishy teacher starting at my school.

Egged on by my friends I called the glamorous man and attempted to flirt with him and basically offer myself to him. I also attempted to flirt with the new teacher.

The glamorous man was used to fan attention. He was polite and kind but not encouraging. As soon as he ended the call he called my parents and told them what had happened. The teacher waited until we were alone and told me I was being a silly little girl and needed to be careful as I could get people and myself in trouble.

Six months later I was in better command of my hormones and I was relieved nothing had happened.

I share this only to point out I may have been "predatory" but the adults I tried this on with behaved as responsible adults. There were no hard feelings, as an adult I became friends with my old teacher and no harm was done.

Labelling an obviously disturbed young woman as predatory and to blame misses the point. Even in Lolita we can see why she behaves as she does. Why is no one talking about why this young woman is behaving in this way?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"some of the comments on hear are deeply troubling.. deeply

I'd be very wary meeting some of the men commenting on this thread. If they think a child can be predatory lord knows how they view women on a swingers site. Meet them at your peril!

as would i be wary of meeting some of the baying mob on this site. fact no one knows the ins and outs of this case but certain people all want the guy hung drawn and quartered the little girl is the victim of abuse no question on this but how it came to pass has many unanswered questions that no one on this thread knows perhaps extenuating circumstances have lead to the shortened sentence the man recieved or perhaps not the simple fact is we DONT know the facts "
The reason the guy received a suspended sentence was in direct reference to the prosecuting barristers predatory comments.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"some of the comments on hear are deeply troubling.. deeply

I'd be very wary meeting some of the men commenting on this thread. If they think a child can be predatory lord knows how they view women on a swingers site. Meet them at your peril!

as would i be wary of meeting some of the baying mob on this site. fact no one knows the ins and outs of this case but certain people all want the guy hung drawn and quartered the little girl is the victim of abuse no question on this but how it came to pass has many unanswered questions that no one on this thread knows perhaps extenuating circumstances have lead to the shortened sentence the man recieved or perhaps not the simple fact is we DONT know the facts The reason the guy received a suspended sentence was in direct reference to the prosecuting barristers predatory comments."

The debate is about not whether he's guilty but whether the true facts of what was said to whom during the trial have come out. We currently have the press version, unless you've read the entire transcript of the trial? The word predator will be one of the factors possibly and seems very strange that the prosecuting barrister has said them. I'd like to see the entire context before I've mad up my mind.

For example why has the prosecutor said this not the defence barrister which would make more sense? In what context was he using the word predatory?

For example someone who is out looking for sex can be said to be a predator and his comment may have been purely a description and not a comment on any moral values.

The intent of words and the reception of words aren't always the same.

I'm strange like that as I don't always believe what I've been told by the press is delivered in context as it makes the whole thing clearer.

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