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God vs Wonga

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

So the church are going to encourage people to go to credit unions instead of using the credit companies with sky high rates. Are the church right to get involved with commercial business. And has any one had any dealing with these companies?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Are credit unions 'commercial businesses'?

Commercial businesses are usually intended to be profit making whilst credit unions are non-profit making organisations.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Really? So no conflict of interest there with their own 'Jump for Jesus Guidebook' then?

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

—Matthew 21:12–13

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

No there not but by taking on Wonga and others isn't that getting involved?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Really? So no conflict of interest there with their own 'Jump for Jesus Guidebook' then?

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

—Matthew 21:12–13"

I'm no supporter of the churches but moneyCHANGING and moneyLENDING are different things.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Really? So no conflict of interest there with their own 'Jump for Jesus Guidebook' then?

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

—Matthew 21:12–13"

Did you know that off by heart? I'm impressed. x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Actually (and not a Christian apologist here) for money changers read Wonga - churches have been in business for years however they don't use the church as the business. So technically the CofE are doing what they perceive as the correct thing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

From the Wikopediah :-

A credit union is a member-owned financial cooperative, democratically controlled by its members, and operated for the purpose of promoting thrift, providing credit at competitive rates, and providing other financial services to its members.

Many credit unions also provide services intended to support community development or sustainable international development on a local level, and could be considered community development financial institutions.

Worldwide, credit union systems vary significantly in terms of total system assets and average institution asset size, ranging from volunteer operations with a handful of members to institutions with several billion dollars in assets and hundreds of thousands of members.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So the church are going to encourage people to go to credit unions instead of using the credit companies with sky high rates. Are the church right to get involved with commercial business. And has any one had any dealing with these companies? "

I guess a lot depends on whether you feel the church is acting without religious motive and is solely aiming their recommendation towards helping vulnerable people make informed choices ….

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So the church are going to encourage people to go to credit unions instead of using the credit companies with sky high rates. Are the church right to get involved with commercial business. And has any one had any dealing with these companies?

I guess a lot depends on whether you feel the church is acting without religious motive and is solely aiming their recommendation towards helping vulnerable people make informed choices …. "

Anyone helping to get people away from the 'Wongas' of this world are alright in my book.

Of course the truly philanthropic thing here would be for the cash-rich religious institutions to leverage their amassed wealth and help out those in desperate need with no-interest loans etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/07/13 10:27:12]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

payday loan companies need to be more strictly regulated. It seems as if everyone acknowledges it needs to be done (even the Government)but at the same time there is little immediate steps being taken.

I dont know why people enter into such transactions (maybe I should be more grateful I have never been in that situation of desperation) but they are definitely not the answer.

I was at a conference recently with a guy who worked for such a lender in Sweden. Their Government has come down hard so they are turning their attention to credit cards to low income earners who will not get credit elsewhere. I guess if our Government does get stricter these companies will still find a way

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I think it's a good move. One of the problems Credit Unions face is getting space to operate because of cost or availability. The thing the Church has is a lot of space.

Alternative and immediate finance is needed at times. Some CABx reporting that loans are being taken every week to buy food by the same families.

This announcement has done what was intended and named Wonga and their interest rates and promote the use of local credit unions instead of payday loan companies. How is that bad?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The first credit union in this country was set up by a church. Credit unions are mutuals. All profit comes back to the members

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So the church are going to encourage people to go to credit unions instead of using the credit companies with sky high rates. Are the church right to get involved with commercial business. And has any one had any dealing with these companies?

I guess a lot depends on whether you feel the church is acting without religious motive and is solely aiming their recommendation towards helping vulnerable people make informed choices ….

Anyone helping to get people away from the 'Wongas' of this world are alright in my book.

Of course the truly philanthropic thing here would be for the cash-rich religious institutions to leverage their amassed wealth and help out those in desperate need with no-interest loans etc. "

Although I agree with the sentiment of your proposal for "no-interest loans"

For many reasons I don’t feel that is the right solution to help reduce the increasing crisis of personal debt...

Without the penalty of added interest I feel more people would be willing to get themselves in debt....

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Companies like Wonga with their mafia like interest rates are a scourge, successive Governments have been pathetic in regulating them..

yes, accept that folk make a decision to use such companies..

but when a lot of folk are 'outside' mainstream finance then their options are limited..

anything that helps to break the hold they have on folk is fine..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Church leaders and pay day lenders both screw you, just in different ways.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"Church leaders and pay day lenders both screw you, just in different ways. "

to a point yes but pay day lenders will send the Bailiffs in..

credit unions per se don't do that..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Church leaders and pay day lenders both screw you, just in different ways.

to a point yes but pay day lenders will send the Bailiffs in..

credit unions per se don't do that.."

Agreed. Thankfully I dont deal with the church or pay day lenders, both of whom make my piss boil as they both prey on the weak

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By * Jay69Man
over a year ago

Bridgwater - Somerset

I think I'm right in saying that 'The Church' is not involved in operating credit unions.

Many volunteers are members of churches and are trying to do their bit, and good on them.

Slightly off topic, but I love the quote from the South American Bishop.

"When I feed the poor I am called a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food I am called a Communist".

How about excommunicating anyone working for Wonga?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Companies like Wonga with their mafia like interest rates are a scourge, "

I don't condone high interest rates and I don't want to get into religious shit..

..But when it says, and I quote direct from website:

"Our service has a Representative APR of 5853%"

That's a clue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So the church are going to encourage people to go to credit unions instead of using the credit companies with sky high rates. Are the church right to get involved with commercial business. And has any one had any dealing with these companies? "

The first ever loan on historical record was made by the church and within their circles they still do loan money. The Irish guy that owns Toomeys could not have started out and reached where he is without them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Companies like Wonga with their mafia like interest rates are a scourge,

I don't condone high interest rates and I don't want to get into religious shit..

..But when it says, and I quote direct from website:

"Our service has a Representative APR of 5853%"

That's a clue.

"
and you forgot to mention people are not frog marched into these places, you can say No

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Someone, only slightly joking, asked - if you lend a pal £20.00 for a week (till his payday) and he buys you a £4.00 pint, what's the effective APR on that transaction?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What ever happened to the days when you just went to your boss and asked for a sub......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What ever happened to the days when you just went to your boss and asked for a sub...... "
those days are long gone

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’d like to see the church discouraging working people from getting further into debt in the first place…

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Church leaders and pay day lenders both screw you, just in different ways.

to a point yes but pay day lenders will send the Bailiffs in..

credit unions per se don't do that.."

Yes they do. They have a responsibility to all their members to safeguard their savings. They are bound by the financial services authority.

They are however, often much more flexible when a member runs into problems.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What ever happened to the days when you just went to your boss and asked for a sub...... "

Most companies don't pay in cash nowadays so more paperwork involved, possibly.

The way I read the story, the church is not getting involved in the lending of money, it is going to allow use of it's properties to the credit unions.

The CofE has one of the largest property portfolios in the country, it invests huge amounts of money in shares etc. Years ago this portfolio included arms companies. All whilst holding out their donation plates when a church needs a new roof. In the modern world to expect any organisation not to be involved in business of some description is not entirely realistic.

For me this is one of the most sensible things I have ever heard of the church doing. It's fine for people to say don't use a payday lender, I've never had to, but for some people there obviously is no other alternative.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I was driving and only caught the quote fleetingly but George Osborne saying he welcomes as many opportunities available for families to borrow. I thought borrowing was bad?

But then he is also underwriting the mortgages that new buyers won't be able to afford as it pushes house prices even further up. The credit unions will be needed even more than they are now.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Someone, only slightly joking, asked - if you lend a pal £20.00 for a week (till his payday) and he buys you a £4.00 pint, what's the effective APR on that transaction?"

They should have gone in Wetherspoons it's cheaper in there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The church and credit unions?

Can't do links but google NI Presbyterian mutual society to see why it's not such a good idea

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By *allDarkFoxForYouMan
over a year ago

Winchester/London


"I’d like to see the church discouraging working people from getting further into debt in the first place… "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I’d like to see the church discouraging working people from getting further into debt in the first place… "

We got married in a Catholic Church and had to attend a certain amount of lessons before the cannon gave us his blessing. Most, if not all, of the lessons were about not over stretching and getting into debt. It was all very sensible advice.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"Companies like Wonga with their mafia like interest rates are a scourge,

I don't condone high interest rates and I don't want to get into religious shit..

..But when it says, and I quote direct from website:

"Our service has a Representative APR of 5853%"

That's a clue.

"

tend to agree and said as much earlier..

some folk sadly don't have the foggiest what an APR is, others will be so desperate they will take a chance..

think there an article on R4 about some of the selling practises that these loan sharks use to sign people up..

yes folk have to take responsibility but some of the loan companies are downright sharks preying on the less fortunate / savvy client..

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"I’d like to see the church discouraging working people from getting further into debt in the first place…

We got married in a Catholic Church and had to attend a certain amount of lessons before the cannon gave us his blessing. Most, if not all, of the lessons were about not over stretching and getting into debt. It was all very sensible advice. "

That's 'cos they figure the more you owe others, the less you'll have for Dog.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I’d like to see the church discouraging working people from getting further into debt in the first place…

We got married in a Catholic Church and had to attend a certain amount of lessons before the cannon gave us his blessing. Most, if not all, of the lessons were about not over stretching and getting into debt. It was all very sensible advice.

That's 'cos they figure the more you owe others, the less you'll have for Dog."

I saw it as them trying to help us start our married life in the best possible way. But that's just me, I like to think some people a nice and the advice they are offering is genuine. It must be tiring living your life life thinking everyone has a hidden agenda.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Not everyone has a hidden agenda but those in fancy dress who (claim to) believe in a non existent sky fairy?

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not everyone has a hidden agenda but those in fancy dress who (claim to) believe in a non existent sky fairy?

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times)."

Well 19 years on and we are still married and we are not in debt so the advice can't have been that bad.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"................

Well 19 years on and we are still married and we are not in debt so the advice can't have been that bad. "

And how much £ have you given to the church?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times)."

Curious to hear what you feel these hidden agenda are?

Also curious to hear your thoughts regards how long after receiving their calling does a member of the clergy switch from wanting to represent the churches religious belief to one serving these so called hidden agendas?

…

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"................

Well 19 years on and we are still married and we are not in debt so the advice can't have been that bad.

And how much £ have you given to the church?"

what does that matter if it was the case..?

the poster had good advice and has followed some of that..

methinks Omny you are far too cynical by far..

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times).

Curious to hear what you feel these hidden agenda are? 1)

Also curious to hear your thoughts regards how long after receiving their calling does a member of the clergy switch from wanting to represent the churches religious belief to one serving these so called hidden agendas? 2)

… "

1) Access to hot and cold running altar boys/ girls + getting to shag the housekeeper.

2) Is it 'after'? I'd have thought, from those priests see around me that serving their hidden agenda is a condition of admission to Orders.

Anyone doubting the above should Google Fr Gerry Nugent - best buddy of Peter Tobin.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"................

Well 19 years on and we are still married and we are not in debt so the advice can't have been that bad.

And how much £ have you given to the church?"

If you get married in a Catholic Church it doesn't cost a penny. We treated the priest to a nice meal afterwards and he also enjoyed the disco.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times).

Curious to hear what you feel these hidden agenda are? 1)

Also curious to hear your thoughts regards how long after receiving their calling does a member of the clergy switch from wanting to represent the churches religious belief to one serving these so called hidden agendas? 2)

…

1) Access to hot and cold running altar boys/ girls + getting to shag the housekeeper.

2) Is it 'after'? I'd have thought, from those priests see around me that serving their hidden agenda is a condition of admission to Orders.

Anyone doubting the above should Google Fr Gerry Nugent - best buddy of Peter Tobin.

"

How do you sleep at night with all those evil thoughts running through your head ?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times).

Curious to hear what you feel these hidden agenda are? 1)

Also curious to hear your thoughts regards how long after receiving their calling does a member of the clergy switch from wanting to represent the churches religious belief to one serving these so called hidden agendas? 2)

…

1) Access to hot and cold running altar boys/ girls + getting to shag the housekeeper.

2) Is it 'after'? I'd have thought, from those priests see around me that serving their hidden agenda is a condition of admission to Orders.

Anyone doubting the above should Google Fr Gerry Nugent - best buddy of Peter Tobin.

"

yes there have been some who have acted in vile way and abused trust etc..

same way as some in other professions..

but not all..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times).

Curious to hear what you feel these hidden agenda are? 1)

Also curious to hear your thoughts regards how long after receiving their calling does a member of the clergy switch from wanting to represent the churches religious belief to one serving these so called hidden agendas? 2)

…

1) Access to hot and cold running altar boys/ girls + getting to shag the housekeeper.

2) Is it 'after'? I'd have thought, from those priests see around me that serving their hidden agenda is a condition of admission to Orders.

Anyone doubting the above should Google Fr Gerry Nugent - best buddy of Peter Tobin.

"

So have you got any examples you'd like to share of anyone in the church who not done bad things and who's maybe devoted themselves to doing good deeds..

Or don't you go lookin for those stories?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

.............

Anyone doubting the above should Google Fr Gerry Nugent - best buddy of Peter Tobin.

So have you got any examples you'd like to share of anyone in the church who not done bad things and who's maybe devoted themselves to doing good deeds..

Or don't you go lookin for those stories? "

There's no need to go looking for tales of evil doing amongst clergy. They're everywhere.

Check out Keith O'Brien.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

.............

Anyone doubting the above should Google Fr Gerry Nugent - best buddy of Peter Tobin.

So have you got any examples you'd like to share of anyone in the church who not done bad things and who's maybe devoted themselves to doing good deeds..

Or don't you go lookin for those stories?

There's no need to go looking for tales of evil doing amongst clergy. They're everywhere.

Check out Keith O'Brien.

"

My questions were, do you have any good news stories you like to share?

Or do you not go looking for good news stories?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stick to facts here forget its church wongas loan fees are sky high credit unions are not its that simple.

In this instance church is being responsible by looking out for those in difficulty.

Shame on the government not acting to restrict wonga etc as they said they would so the church are standing up for folk.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

probably similar then to the conspiracy theorists on the web..

or the 'sweeping generalisationists' on Fab..

yeh yeh, I know that's not a real word..

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"

.............

My questions were, do you have any good news stories you like to share?

Or do you not go looking for good news stories?

"

D'ye mean like Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

.............

My questions were, do you have any good news stories you like to share?

Or do you not go looking for good news stories?

D'ye mean like Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?"

You see ,I thought my questions were quite clear...

But would you like me to repeat them again?

Or would you rather not answer?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An APR of over 5000% is WRONG no matter how you look at it, and someone of some kind of ethical/moral etc stature needed to make that clear.

And if it can't be The Queen, as head of the CofE, then it may as well be her right-hand man...

Although an Atheist, even I can applaud the stand Justin Welby has taken. As he used to be a bit of a City whizz-kid, in a way, I find it all the more pleasing that HE has come out with this statement.

As for Wonga, I would cheer at their demise and of others like them. To me, it's indefensible naked exploitation of people who have little or no option to accept finance at such crippling rates just to get through their daily lives...

ted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"An APR of over 5000% is WRONG no matter how you look at it, and someone of some kind of ethical/moral etc stature needed to make that clear.

And if it can't be The Queen, as head of the CofE, then it may as well be her right-hand man...

Although an Atheist, even I can applaud the stand Justin Welby has taken. As he used to be a bit of a City whizz-kid, in a way, I find it all the more pleasing that HE has come out with this statement.

As for Wonga, I would cheer at their demise and of others like them. To me, it's indefensible naked exploitation of people who have little or no option to accept finance at such crippling rates just to get through their daily lives...

ted. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just need to tax religion and have done with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not everyone has a hidden agenda but those in fancy dress who (claim to) believe in a non existent sky fairy?

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times).

Well 19 years on and we are still married and we are not in debt so the advice can't have been that bad. "
WOW 19 years married and still no debt, well congratulations to you, it must be great to go through life never having to buy anything on credit, cash for your house, car or cars and not even a credit card in sight

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not everyone has a hidden agenda but those in fancy dress who (claim to) believe in a non existent sky fairy?

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times).

Well 19 years on and we are still married and we are not in debt so the advice can't have been that bad. WOW 19 years married and still no debt, well congratulations to you, it must be great to go through life never having to buy anything on credit, cash for your house, car or cars and not even a credit card in sight "

Apart from our mortgage we have never bought anything on credit. If we couldn't afford it we didn't buy it.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Just need to tax religion and have done with it."

I suspect avoidance of tax is the reason religions go for charitable status.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Really? So no conflict of interest there with their own 'Jump for Jesus Guidebook' then?

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

—Matthew 21:12–13"

this was my first thought when I heard this on the news this morning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not everyone has a hidden agenda but those in fancy dress who (claim to) believe in a non existent sky fairy?

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times).

Well 19 years on and we are still married and we are not in debt so the advice can't have been that bad. WOW 19 years married and still no debt, well congratulations to you, it must be great to go through life never having to buy anything on credit, cash for your house, car or cars and not even a credit card in sight

Apart from our mortgage we have never bought anything on credit. If we couldn't afford it we didn't buy it. "
ah so in the 19 years you did have debt or does having a mortgage not count

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not everyone has a hidden agenda but those in fancy dress who (claim to) believe in a non existent sky fairy?

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times).

Well 19 years on and we are still married and we are not in debt so the advice can't have been that bad. WOW 19 years married and still no debt, well congratulations to you, it must be great to go through life never having to buy anything on credit, cash for your house, car or cars and not even a credit card in sight

Apart from our mortgage we have never bought anything on credit. If we couldn't afford it we didn't buy it. ah so in the 19 years you did have debt or does having a mortgage not count "

Are you this picky about everything. I have a very manageable mortgage and did not borrow beyond my means.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not everyone has a hidden agenda but those in fancy dress who (claim to) believe in a non existent sky fairy?

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times).

Well 19 years on and we are still married and we are not in debt so the advice can't have been that bad. WOW 19 years married and still no debt, well congratulations to you, it must be great to go through life never having to buy anything on credit, cash for your house, car or cars and not even a credit card in sight

Apart from our mortgage we have never bought anything on credit. If we couldn't afford it we didn't buy it. ah so in the 19 years you did have debt or does having a mortgage not count

Are you this picky about everything. I have a very manageable mortgage and did not borrow beyond my means. "
at time yes, when ppl say they have never had debt, and saying it while they look down their noses at those that may have had to, and then they say well apart from our mortgage. And to be honest, it is prob the biggest debt anyone can ever have

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good bit of news Pappa Cissi has now agreed to wear the toon shirt with Wonga on it, wonder how much that has cost the club

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not everyone has a hidden agenda but those in fancy dress who (claim to) believe in a non existent sky fairy?

Oh yes, they have a hidden agenda (even if it's not too well hidden at times).

Well 19 years on and we are still married and we are not in debt so the advice can't have been that bad. WOW 19 years married and still no debt, well congratulations to you, it must be great to go through life never having to buy anything on credit, cash for your house, car or cars and not even a credit card in sight

Apart from our mortgage we have never bought anything on credit. If we couldn't afford it we didn't buy it. ah so in the 19 years you did have debt or does having a mortgage not count

Are you this picky about everything. I have a very manageable mortgage and did not borrow beyond my means. at time yes, when ppl say they have never had debt, and saying it while they look down their noses at those that may have had to, and then they say well apart from our mortgage. And to be honest, it is prob the biggest debt anyone can ever have "

How on earth did you get from me saying I have no debt to me looking down my nose at anyone ? I suggest you read back through the thread. I was replying to a post about advice I had received.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well I certainly haven’t noticed any comment in this thread that could even be slightly interpreted as looking down on people with debt……

But now and again I have to wonder what agenda is backing some of the unfairly antagonistic things I read in here though...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well I certainly haven’t noticed any comment in this thread that could even be slightly interpreted as looking down on people with debt……

But now and again I have to wonder what agenda is backing some of the unfairly antagonistic things I read in here though...

"
so why make comment about them being married for 19 years and never having debt, then saying afterward s well apart from our mortgage, could have said after 19 years we have managed our debts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Well I certainly haven’t noticed any comment in this thread that could even be slightly interpreted as looking down on people with debt……

But now and again I have to wonder what agenda is backing some of the unfairly antagonistic things I read in here though...

so why make comment about them being married for 19 years and never having debt, then saying afterward s well apart from our mortgage, could have said after 19 years we have managed our debts "

Sorry for mis wording our post but if you read back it was a light hearted answer to a previous post. How you managed to glean that I was looking down my nose at anyone god only knows.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

I don't know how a post about the leader of the CofE has evolved into a post about how naughty Catholic Priests are but hey ho.

The Church of England is one of the biggest landlords in the country. They certainly own a lot of York! So if they're willing to use some of that to encourage Credit Unions then good for them! I am as strong an atheist as you would care to meet, but I would dive into a baptismal pool myself if it gets rid of payday loan companies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seems that, according to the a BBC news report, the Church of England actually indirectly invest money into Wings.

Oops!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Welby is apparently furious that their portfolio includes a link to Wonga, even two or three times removed and wants to know how it got through the ethics committee.

Finance is so intertwined now it's hard to invest ethically with anyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Welby is apparently furious that their portfolio includes a link to Wonga, even two or three times removed and wants to know how it got through the ethics committee.

Finance is so intertwined now it's hard to invest ethically with anyone."

You'd have thought they'd be very careful about such things after being found out to be investing in an armaments company a good few years ago...

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

I don't even need a loan,but I'm going with the wonga guy,they're only stealing my money,the other guys stealing soul.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't even need a loan,but I'm going with the wonga guy,they're only stealing my money,the other guys stealing soul. "

The church is not going to be running the credit unions, They are planning on providing them with space, whether that is free or low cost remains to be seen, to operate. This will enable them to operate with lower overheads making their business model more viable.

I usually hold religions in utter contempt but must say I think this is one of the best ideas to come from a religion in an awful long time if not ever.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't even need a loan,but I'm going with the wonga guy,they're only stealing my money,the other guys stealing soul.

The church is not going to be running the credit unions, They are planning on providing them with space, whether that is free or low cost remains to be seen, to operate. This will enable them to operate with lower overheads making their business model more viable.

I usually hold religions in utter contempt but must say I think this is one of the best ideas to come from a religion in an awful long time if not ever.

"
yes they have offered space for credit unions for free, but as a spokesman for the credit union replied its all well and good offering space, but only if they can get volunteers to run the extra premises

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Seems that, according to the a BBC news report, the Church of England actually indirectly invest money into Wings.

Oops!"

The church being hypocritical? Never!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a bit different but my church is opening up as a meeting place for people get to get financial advice and support from an outside source. We have a large percentage of people in poverty and low-income families in our parish and we lack other meeting places.

Personally, I don't think many people would take advantage off it as they'd be put off by the church, but if it helps even one person then it's worth it.

As I said, it's an outside group so in no way will there be a link to or pressure to believe in God.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"It's a bit different but my church is opening up as a meeting place for people get to get financial advice and support from an outside source. We have a large percentage of people in poverty and low-income families in our parish and we lack other meeting places.

Personally, I don't think many people would take advantage off it as they'd be put off by the church, but if it helps even one person then it's worth it.

As I said, it's an outside group so in no way will there be a link to or pressure to believe in God."

I know a fair few churches in London that do that. I also know one Muslim disability welfare advice group, run by volunteers, that holds its sessions and lunch clubs in an Anglican church hall. They get a good turnout.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The part I found most interesting is that the CofE ha over £5.2bn invested (not in Wonga, but in total).

So, seems they are not short of a Bob or two. Why dont they do short term loans on very low interest then, they certainly have the capital.

They could call them 'Prayday' loans.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"The part I found most interesting is that the CofE ha over £5.2bn invested (not in Wonga, but in total).

So, seems they are not short of a Bob or two. Why dont they do short term loans on very low interest then, they certainly have the capital.

They could call them 'Prayday' loans. "

They have a huge operation to fund too. But your point is well made and I'm stealing Prayday Loans to use from now on in this story.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The part I found most interesting is that the CofE ha over £5.2bn invested (not in Wonga, but in total).

So, seems they are not short of a Bob or two. Why dont they do short term loans on very low interest then, they certainly have the capital.

They could call them 'Prayday' loans.

They have a huge operation to fund too. But your point is well made and I'm stealing Prayday Loans to use from now on in this story. "

Yes, they do - they also have a massive revenue stream too - from donations, tithes, rents etc. Yet every time they need a new roof on one of Gods houses, its invariably paid for using donations from the public.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not railing on their business model (and it IS a business).

I just think that when you have that much squirreled away and then choose to denounce the abysmal and shameful practices of another business (because Wonga are in it for the money) that they have a far better form of positive action available than simply feeling pious enough to cast the first stone.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"The part I found most interesting is that the CofE ha over £5.2bn invested (not in Wonga, but in total).

So, seems they are not short of a Bob or two. Why dont they do short term loans on very low interest then, they certainly have the capital.

They could call them 'Prayday' loans.

They have a huge operation to fund too. But your point is well made and I'm stealing Prayday Loans to use from now on in this story.

Yes, they do - they also have a massive revenue stream too - from donations, tithes, rents etc. Yet every time they need a new roof on one of Gods houses, its invariably paid for using donations from the public.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not railing on their business model (and it IS a business).

I just think that when you have that much squirreled away and then choose to denounce the abysmal and shameful practices of another business (because Wonga are in it for the money) that they have a far better form of positive action available than simply feeling pious enough to cast the first stone. "

The press and political interest would not be there in the same way. I think Welby should have done some due diligence on his own business before making the statement. I think the statement has done more to raise the issue of ridiculous interest rates than would have been possible otherwise and raise the profile of credit unions.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

I listened to Welby on R4 this morning and got the distinct impression he knew about the Commissioners' money in Wonga but that he was happy to bear the burden of embarrassment just to keep the story going.

He also insisted he hadn't mentioned Wonga specifically but had been targeting ALL loan sharks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The part I found most interesting is that the CofE ha over £5.2bn invested (not in Wonga, but in total)....

...Yet every time they need a new roof on one of Gods houses, its invariably paid for using donations from the public. "

And that's precisely why they are able to invest £5.2bn - not spending it on church roofs, are they....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Really? So no conflict of interest there with their own 'Jump for Jesus Guidebook' then?

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

—Matthew 21:12–13"

Think here the merchants involved were selling goods to be used by worshippers during Passover.....for a profit..... I believe credit unions are local, non profit organisations but I am still not sure whether there is a conflict here though?

I think it right that the Church finally gets involved in society and hopefully it will now also start to make itself more relevant to the communities in which it operates. I also think that it is right that it opens up the buildings it owns for more community use

The Church is, to my understanding, the people who worship. The church building is just somewhere they meet and they can just as easily meet in a village hall, a house or even a field so is it wrong to use that building for other purposes?

The Archbishop has been campaigning for sometime for a cap on the amount of interest these companies charge. This will never happen and while they are so available to the desperate then they will always be used. Credit Unions are a fantastic alternative but people often do not know about them, or even if there is a union operating locally.

Yaay for Wellby is what I say, every little helps

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"

The Church is, to my understanding, the people who worship. The church building is just somewhere they meet and they can just as easily meet in a village hall, a house or even a field so is it wrong to use that building for other purposes?

The Archbishop has been campaigning for sometime for a cap on the amount of interest these companies charge. This will never happen and while they are so available to the desperate then they will always be used. Credit Unions are a fantastic alternative but people often do not know about them, or even if there is a union operating locally.

Yaay for Wellby is what I say, every little helps "

I've also just seen a message that says "CofE singing Amazing Rates".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah the C of E, the C of E!

In my village a rotten tree stands at edge of churchyard overhanging the footpath. It has to come down

It's in church property. Are the church gonna pay ? No, they say. So the parish council gotta cough up for it!!!! (out of our council tax)

I'm No fan of Wonga but C of E wants to get it's own house in order

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

Next step for the Church should be to have folks going door to door, especially in areas where these sorts of payday loans companies operate, and spread the word about Credit Unions etc.

Two birds with one stone...

Maybe encourage people to volunteer to "help thy neighbour", by manning these new centres, or by going door to door to spread the word.

Could foster a bit of community spirit.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Next step for the Church should be to have folks going door to door, especially in areas where these sorts of payday loans companies operate, and spread the word about Credit Unions etc.

Two birds with one stone...

Maybe encourage people to volunteer to "help thy neighbour", by manning these new centres, or by going door to door to spread the word.

Could foster a bit of community spirit. "

As well as those offering Watchtower we'd have people with Rates Watch?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ah the C of E, the C of E!

In my village a rotten tree stands at edge of churchyard overhanging the footpath. It has to come down

It's in church property. Are the church gonna pay ? No, they say. So the parish council gotta cough up for it!!!! (out of our council tax)

I'm No fan of Wonga but C of E wants to get it's own house in order "

Hmmmm... is the saying "Physician, heal thyself" a biblical saying..?? Being an atheist, I cannot speak with authority on that....

ted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ah the C of E, the C of E!

In my village a rotten tree stands at edge of churchyard overhanging the footpath. It has to come down

It's in church property. Are the church gonna pay ? No, they say. So the parish council gotta cough up for it!!!! (out of our council tax)

I'm No fan of Wonga but C of E wants to get it's own house in order

Hmmmm... is the saying "Physician, heal thyself" a biblical saying..?? Being an atheist, I cannot speak with authority on that....

ted."

I'm Jewish superted my chuckling bunny so I'm not over familiar with how these runner up religions operate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ah the C of E, the C of E!

In my village a rotten tree stands at edge of churchyard overhanging the footpath. It has to come down

It's in church property. Are the church gonna pay ? No, they say. So the parish council gotta cough up for it!!!! (out of our council tax)

I'm No fan of Wonga but C of E wants to get it's own house in order

Hmmmm... is the saying "Physician, heal thyself" a biblical saying..?? Being an atheist, I cannot speak with authority on that....

ted.

I'm Jewish superted my chuckling bunny so I'm not over familiar with how these runner up religions operate "

Shalom!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ah the C of E, the C of E!

In my village a rotten tree stands at edge of churchyard overhanging the footpath. It has to come down

It's in church property. Are the church gonna pay ? No, they say. So the parish council gotta cough up for it!!!! (out of our council tax)

I'm No fan of Wonga but C of E wants to get it's own house in order

Hmmmm... is the saying "Physician, heal thyself" a biblical saying..?? Being an atheist, I cannot speak with authority on that....

ted.

I'm Jewish superted my chuckling bunny so I'm not over familiar with how these runner up religions operate

Shalom!

"

Lechaim to you sweetie

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They really have turned their Fathers house into a den of thieves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Really? So no conflict of interest there with their own 'Jump for Jesus Guidebook' then?

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

—Matthew 21:12–13"

I agree with this. A few years ago churches in northern Ireland encouraged parishioners to put their savings in the Presbyterian mutual society. Thus society loaned recklessly to over ambitious property developers and went bust. The church didnt offer any help. Many people had put their funeral savings in this.

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