FabSwingers.com forum: Why has the atmosphere gone tepid at modern football stadiums ?

By *allDarkFoxForYou OP Man
over a year ago

Winchester/London

Having been to many matches at a wide variety of stadiums in recent years the atmosphere just isn't vibrant like it was 30 years ago.

The players play on a near perfect bowling green,you are safely seated and both toilet and refreshment facilities are miles better.

My own theories are -

1) seating creates a sterile crowd with little camaraderie .

2) Because it's pretty expensive to attend matches some passionate poorer fans are being replaced by fair weather folk business networking with the odd glance at the match inbetween.

Remember the great sound of the crowds at cup finals now they sound like they've rocked up for a pre season friendly and I find it all so sad

If you think this is a bogus sense of nostalgia pop on a dvd of an old match or watch one on a retro channel and you'll soon see what I mean.

Who's robbed us of our sporting soul as we'd like it back pronto please ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The all seat stadiums are a major factor imo. When it was terracing the singers/chanters could easily migrate to the same area, nowadays everyone gets allocated a seat which, unless the stadium is half empty, you must stay in so the groups of singing fans are spread around the stadium. No one wants to be the only one singing...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have to admit growing up in the shadow of the legendary Roker Roar and having been lucky enough to be among a partisan crowd of over 50000 home supporters, back in the day when most of our ground was standing area only ….

I thought no crowd in the country could match the noise created in that emotionally charged arena...

But as I got older and started travelling too away games. I soon realised that roar was equalled and even eclipsed by some home crowds who were able to generate a passion and fervour that would makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up with fear and excitement…..

So although I’ve never been to an all seated game and obviously have no idea what it’s like now, I can imagine that for teams to lose that feeling must be like starting a game one man down…

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The return of some sort of terracing would be great. The Germans do it successfully after all.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

It's possibly an unpopular thing to say but it may be down to an absence of alcohol.

Rugby matches, where people can sit in their allocated seats and enjoy a (sensible) drink whilst watching the match are much more vibrant days out than at a football match.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

... crowds who were able to generate a passion and fervour that would makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up with fear and excitement…..

That took me back Soxy, had a real 'hair standing up' moment!

In my mind; the seats did it, Hillsborough did it, Heysel did it, Bradford did it, the rise of the prima donna footballer did it, too many foreign imports did it ... oh and my kids finished it off for me

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By *ce WingerMan
over a year ago

P.O. Box DE1 0NQ

The Baseball Ground had terrific atmosphere with the stands being so close to and towering over the pitch, was an even better atmosphere when we beat Real Madrid there

Pride Park on the other hand is pretty much the same as every other purpose built stadium, boring

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By *tefnkatCouple
over a year ago

chesterfield

It's nowt to do with lack of alcohol, because you can get as much as you like before the match, and even in the stadiums, as long as you can't see the pitch!! In my opinion it is purely down to all seater stadiums.

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By *icked weaselCouple
over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

Its because the have priced the working class people away from the stadiums.. and its much Easier and Cheaper to Watch the LIVE Games in the Pub..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

cos people arent allowed to act like thick thugs??

I like the odd game, I worked in a stadium..but have to say there are some fucking total idiots and I imagine thats not anything to do with the scottish sectarian aspects and more to do with guys just being fucking twats

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Modern football stadia? I wouldn't know.

yours

A Leeds Utd fan.

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By *els_BellsWoman
over a year ago

with the moon n stars somewhere in gtr manc

IMHO I think it has to do with the cost, how much players are paid and also the size of some grounds nowadays. The Kop has also been seated for years, but it's one of the naturally loudest of places in the Premiership (or it was).

Personally, I wouldn't take my kids to a Premier League game as it is way too expensive for an afternoon, even if I was better off financially, I doubt I could justify the costs.

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By *els_BellsWoman
over a year ago

with the moon n stars somewhere in gtr manc

"cos people arent allowed to act like thick thugs??

And some so called women

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having been to Highbury and the Emirates on more than a few occasions throughout the years I can say that the atmosphere has must definitely changed.

The more expensive seats at the Emirates are taken up by people who generally do not want to show any passion or chant any songs.

I'm normally in the areas where the crowd are more vocal. Some people are there just to watch the game as if it's a theatre without any sort of interaction with the game. Having an all seater stadium also makes the atmosphere a bit more sedated.

Don't forget that it's not only men that go to the stadiums anymore. More women and families attend matches, which isa good thing by the way.

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By *UNCHBOXMan
over a year ago

folkestone

Premiership clubs will have a big problem in 10-20 years time, because if you take an average age of a arsenal fan for example it's going to be 40-50 years of age, so how is going to replace them once they stop going, cos there certainly isn't many fans of 15-25 age group going because of the high cost.

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By *els_BellsWoman
over a year ago

with the moon n stars somewhere in gtr manc

Oh and as for the price of season tickets for top flight clubs is ridiculous never mind the waiting lists for some clubs where they used to be able to pass them on through generations.

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By *allDarkFoxForYou OP Man
over a year ago

Winchester/London

A very impressive range of well constructed views by all contributors thus far.

LUNCHBOX has a good point re who'll be the future fans attending matches in a generations time ?

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By *taffsfella1Man
over a year ago

Newcastle-under-Lyme

In the golden era, you could pay on the day and stand with your mates after having a few beers beforehand.

If you look at the increase in ticket prices since the introduction of the premiership, it is shocking! The average working man has been priced out of football.

As someone mentioned above, the Bundesliga is so much better for atmosphere. They have sensible pricing and terracing that converts to seats for champions league games.

There is currently a campaign by the FSF (Football Supporters Federation) to re-introduce terracing into the Premiership.

I'm just glad I support a "lower league" team that can still generate an atmosphere

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Another relevant point is who/what will the club's be in years to come.

Mere franchises for billionaires to play with as they see fit?

Man Ure, Monaco, PSG, Malaga etc

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By *d_deeTV/TS
over a year ago

cheshire

always preferred away games, used to be great at home when standing but in the last couple of years even "the Lane" has gone sterile. Oh and I am from London btw

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By *els_BellsWoman
over a year ago

with the moon n stars somewhere in gtr manc

I wonder if it could be to do with more corporate visitors or even the actual type of fan or if it is reflected in modern society

Good thread OP

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By *allDarkFoxForYou OP Man
over a year ago

Winchester/London

Another relevant point is who/what will the club's be in years to come.

Mere franchises for billionaires to play with as they see fit?

Man Ure, Monaco, PSG, Malaga etc

One of the biggest myths is that the modern game is hyped as being unpredictable and exciting to a new level.

Is it ?

We can all predict next seasons top six or seven at the end of the season now and we'd get 6 or indeed all 7 correct with only minor shuffle adjustments between us.

Nottingham forest won the title during their first season in the top flight after promotion 35 years ago.

Could Cardiff city do that this season er not a cat in hells chance and we all know it.

You could name your own price at the bookies.

Money has made the competitive range narrower and narrower and in another ten years the likes of Man.united will be beating the premier league also rans around 6.0 away from home fielding their second string team.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cuz its all business people today no true fans if you listen to the away teams fans thay sing from start to finish

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

People complain about the amount of money sloshing around in professional football these days but they have only themselves to blame.

A few months of crowd non-attendance would concentrate the minds of those supposedly in charge of fitba'.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

People complain about the amount of money sloshing around in professional football these days but they have only themselves to blame.

A few months of crowd non-attendance would concentrate the minds of those supposedly in charge of fitba'.

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By *Kgirl80Woman
over a year ago

South Coast

I can't say I've noticed a change at Stamford Bridge but I can't help but wonder if it has anything to do with where your seats are. I know my dad finds it very different now at the Emirates but he did change seats last season.

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By *allDarkFoxForYou OP Man
over a year ago

Winchester/London

"I can't say I've noticed a change at Stamford Bridge but I can't help but wonder if it has anything to do with where your seats are. I know my dad finds it very different now at the Emirates but he did change seats last season. "

Well I lived very close to the Emirates stadium for 4 years and most folk in the area were Arsenal fans as you can imagine.

Even the season ticket holders were often selling their seats to all but the visit of the top teams as they'd say it's really dull atmosphere attending nowadays.

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By *Kgirl80Woman
over a year ago

South Coast

Well I lived very close to the Emirates stadium for 4 years and most folk in the area were Arsenal fans as you can imagine.

Even the season ticket holders were often selling their seats to all but the visit of the top teams as they'd say it's really dull atmosphere attending nowadays.

Quite a few of the guys he used to sit with were doing exactly that... He said that the 'spirit' of meeting up with the same group for a common goal every other week had all but died. Shame.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Cuz its all business people today no true fans if you listen to the away teams fans thay sing from start to finish

They away fans are the most dedicated fans, who week in and out travel all over the country to support their team, They travel together and sit together, so they sing together. They may after a few years even manage to migrate to a similar area of their teams new all seater stadium and raise the atmosphere of their home games. These are the real football supporters, what was the Italian team where they had one single away fan turn up for a game? The Italians apparently rarely travel to away game specifically for the purpose of watching the game.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Having been to many matches at a wide variety of stadiums in recent years the atmosphere just isn't vibrant like it was 30 years ago.

The players play on a near perfect bowling green,you are safely seated and both toilet and refreshment facilities are miles better.

My own theories are -

1) seating creates a sterile crowd with little camaraderie .

2) Because it's pretty expensive to attend matches some passionate poorer fans are being replaced by fair weather folk business networking with the odd glance at the match inbetween.

Remember the great sound of the crowds at cup finals now they sound like they've rocked up for a pre season friendly and I find it all so sad

If you think this is a bogus sense of nostalgia pop on a dvd of an old match or watch one on a retro channel and you'll soon see what I mean.

Who's robbed us of our sporting soul as we'd like it back pronto please ?

"
is it not that the football fans of those days were mostly from a working class background, unlike today most working class fans can't afford to go themselves never mind the kids,it's a game for the cucumber sandwich brigade these day, as was once said by Roy Keen and I think he was right

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By *ce WingerMan
over a year ago

P.O. Box DE1 0NQ

Another relevant point is who/what will the club's be in years to come.

Mere franchises for billionaires to play with as they see fit?

Man Ure, Monaco, PSG, Malaga etc

Surely that has happened already, Chelski and others have succumbed to the idea that throwing money at a club will gain instant rewards.

Sad really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think its’ fair to say that over the years a lot of the aggression we used to see from players has been taken out of the game by introducing rules that penalise players who over commit themselves physically while challenging their opponents…

I distinctly remember fans enthusiasm rising every time one of their own players went in hard or where an opposing player did the same back….

I guess the reduction of that type of gladiatorial element has had a subduing effect of crowds reactions too....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe against most opinions so far in the thread, but I think on the whole it is a change for the better. The matchday experience has been improved.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe against most opinions so far in the thread, but I think on the whole it is a change for the better. The matchday experience has been improved. "
nothing in today's football, is better then the atmosphere of old. Sky TV has to take some of the blame for modern day football,why can't we go back to the day of most football played on a Sat and Wed night and 3pm and 7.30 kick offs, why because it's all about MONEY THESE days

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

usually think its depends on who who is playing

when its playing also, also the purpose of the game

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"The return of some sort of terracing would be great. The Germans do it successfully after all. "

safe standing..... and then for european games the seat come back in.....

i would be all for that, but it will never come back because people will forever bring up hillsborough, and the hillsborough groups will kick up a fuss...

which people forget that it was the fences that caused the issues, not the standing

the FA took semi-finals away from the old highbury because arsenal would not put in the fences.....

funny enough the emirates is actually built where the lower bowls behind each of the goals was built with safe standing, like in germany, in mind..... and could be taken out if the govt/fa ever have a change of mind....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe against most opinions so far in the thread, but I think on the whole it is a change for the better. The matchday experience has been improved. nothing in today's football, is better then the atmosphere of old. Sky TV has to take some of the blame for modern day football,why can't we go back to the day of most football played on a Sat and Wed night and 3pm and 7.30 kick offs, why because it's all about MONEY THESE days"

Violence, racism, guys pissing where they stood on the terraces, stadium safety (Bradford fire, Hillsborough etc). Accessibility to wider age groups, women, children. The quality of the actual product......the list goes on.

Are you sure nothing is better?

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i suppose i should say i was a highbury die hard... started going down the arsenal when i was 14... graduated to the back of the north back, before going in a superstar transfer to the "clock end"

and it is sad that in a way, I actually prefer as a fan going to "away" games because the atmospere as a fan is closer to what we use to have in the "old days"

i would love arsenal to drop their prices, but everyone would have to do it.....

if something was co-ordinated so that everyone just boycotted premier league games for just one week, i would do it... but it would never happen because I don't think people would actually do it!!! and they have our money in season tickets anyway..

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By *allDarkFoxForYou OP Man
over a year ago

Winchester/London

which people forget that it was the fences that caused the issues, not the standing

As usual with _abio an excellent point

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One of my major disappointment as a football supporter who’s team managed to get to cup final held in the old Wembley stadium when it still had the 100000 capacity and the fans at either end stood on the terraces, was the shock of finding how much room there was between each individual fan……

I’d really expected to be crammed in like sardines much in the way the crowds were in the club grounds during the rounds before the final….

I kinda felt the collective crush was a missing part of creating a passionate furore on those Wembly terraces,

Although it probably doesn’t help my cause here by admitting we played shyte and lost the game…!!!!

But hey at least I got there,,,

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By *allDarkFoxForYou OP Man
over a year ago

Winchester/London

"One of my major disappointment as a football supporter who’s team managed to get to cup final held in the old Wembley stadium when it still had the 100000 capacity and the fans at either end stood on the terraces, was the shock of finding how much room there was between each individual fan……

I’d really expected to be crammed in like sardines much in the way the crowds were in the club grounds during the rounds before the final….

I kinda felt the collective crush was a missing part of creating a passionate furore on those Wembly terraces,

Although it probably doesn’t help my cause here by admitting we played shyte and lost the game…!!!!

But hey at least I got there,,,

Is your team Newcastle soxy as Sunderland won there in 73 ?

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By *kywatcherMan
over a year ago

Southwick

A success story:

Brighton & Hove Albion at the Amex Stadium which opened two years ago as a 22,500 all-seater and now officially completed by the end of 2012-13 season with a capacity of 30,750.

As regards the atmosphere...the place rocks..no goal music gimmicks etc just fans that are appreciative of a quality stadium after 14 years exile..two years ground sharing with Gillingham and twelve years at a converted athletics stadium... Withdean.

It is stunningly attractive architecturally...won numerous awards...not your normal flatpack stadium...and consistently sells out. Set in the South Downs at Falmer I cannot think of a more attractive location for a UK stadium. Highest crowds in the Football League last season of 26,000+ and higher than many Premier clubs.

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By *kywatcherMan
over a year ago

Southwick

I’d really expected to be crammed in like sardines much in the way the crowds were in the club grounds during the rounds before the final….

I kinda felt the collective crush was a missing part of creating a passionate furore on those Wembly terraces,

Although it probably doesn’t help my cause here by admitting we played shyte and lost the game…!!!!

But hey at least I got there,,,

Is your team Newcastle soxy as Sunderland won there in 73 ?"

He's an odd fellow...supports both ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you sure nothing is better?"
so what your saying is you don't get racism and violence these day, and as for accessibility woman and children have been going long before sky or the changes football has gone through came into force

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By *allDarkFoxForYou OP Man
over a year ago

Winchester/London

"A success story:

Brighton & Hove Albion at the Amex Stadium which opened two years ago as a 22,500 all-seater and now officially completed by the end of 2012-13 season with a capacity of 30,750.

It is a good stadium and I was surprised that Brighton didn't go up via the play offs.

Maybe the return of Peter Ward up front would nail it this season ?

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By *kywatcherMan
over a year ago

Southwick

"A success story:

Brighton & Hove Albion at the Amex Stadium which opened two years ago as a 22,500 all-seater and now officially completed by the end of 2012-13 season with a capacity of 30,750.

It is a good stadium and I was surprised that Brighton didn't go up via the play offs.

Maybe the return of Peter Ward up front would nail it this season ?

High hopes again for this season. Oscar Garcia (tipped as a future Barcelona manager) as head coach and being linked with Barcelona loans and apparently a friend of the 'special one' so maybe some incoming from Chelsea. Craig Mackail-Smith still out with injury but we have Ulloa and Barnes who have both scored in preseason. Also the coach has involved seven players from the development squad in preseason who didn't get a look in under Gus Poyet....it's all positive.

As for Peter Ward...he still comes back regularly as a bit of an ambassador for the club...currently living in Florida.

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By *lentyoffun40Couple
over a year ago

Lancashire

I've been watching man utd since 1977

Home and away and travelled to many foreign grounds from Sparta Prague

To juventus

Madrid and Barcelona ,Lyon, kiev and Porto to name a few

I have to agree the atmosphere has changed for the worse

You only have to look at the fa cup final day now... Nowhere near as good as it was back in the 80's . The whole day was brilliant

The top of the pops songs. Player interviews. Following the team coaches

That was a proper fa cup final

Nowadays corporate seating,ticket prices and all seater stadiums have fooked it all up

I started to go more away days as the true genuine utd fan made it a special atmosphere. But even now the influx of Chinese, and Scandinavian day trippers have infiltrated these days and made them crap

The only true atmosphere now is a good old fashioned derby or Liverpool away

Bring back all sweater stadium or at least singing standing sections

Cut the number of corporate tickets available

Introduce cheap tickets for 16 to 25 year olds and we might have a chance

Sadly I think the game we know it will never be the same again

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’d really expected to be crammed in like sardines much in the way the crowds were in the club grounds during the rounds before the final….

I kinda felt the collective crush was a missing part of creating a passionate furore on those Wembly terraces,

Although it probably doesn’t help my cause here by admitting we played shyte and lost the game…!!!!

But hey at least I got there,,,

Is your team Newcastle soxy as Sunderland won there in 73 ?"

Yeah I support Sunderland and Newcastle,,,, but my trip to Wembley was for the 1985 Milk Cup final…… Sunderland against Norwich,,,, which apparently is still regarded in some quarters as the friendly final,,,,,

The stadium was full to capacity and the Sunderland fans must have easily outnumbered the Norwich contingent by 3 to 1 but I never saw one bit of trouble or animosity between fans, and I’ve not heard of anyone who saw anything but two sets of fans having a really great day out,,,

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

Think price0 is the major block to the old workibng class fan who would follow his club everywhere with passion unfortunatly the premier league has achieved what it was designed to do target the middle classes with large disposable income and marginalise the traditional working class fan all in the search for financial domination by the big clubs .many clubs are now waking up to the fact that the demographic age of the average football supporter is rising so need to encourage and entice youngsters .can only applaud stoke city initiative in allowing all fans traveling to away games on official transport for free .

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By *allDarkFoxForYou OP Man
over a year ago

Winchester/London

These are well expressed good points

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By *allDarkFoxForYou OP Man
over a year ago

Winchester/London

I’d really expected to be crammed in like sardines much in the way the crowds were in the club grounds during the rounds before the final….

I kinda felt the collective crush was a missing part of creating a passionate furore on those Wembly terraces,

Although it probably doesn’t help my cause here by admitting we played shyte and lost the game…!!!!

But hey at least I got there,,,

Is your team Newcastle soxy as Sunderland won there in 73 ?

Wasn't it an own goal that won the game and I'm pretty certain veteran striker Mick Channon was playing for Norwich ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’d really expected to be crammed in like sardines much in the way the crowds were in the club grounds during the rounds before the final….

I kinda felt the collective crush was a missing part of creating a passionate furore on those Wembly terraces,

Although it probably doesn’t help my cause here by admitting we played shyte and lost the game…!!!!

But hey at least I got there,,,

Is your team Newcastle soxy as Sunderland won there in 73 ?

Wasn't it an own goal that won the game and I'm pretty certain veteran striker Mick Channon was playing for Norwich ?

Yeah deflected own goal won it for them and we missed a penalty ,,,,,

I'm sure you're right about Mick Channon too,,,,, but it's a long time ago and my memory ain't as good as it used to be,,,, but yeah I'm pretty sure your right he did play....

I know it was Clive Walker who missed the penalty for us,,,, but I forgave him because we would probably never have even reached the final without him .... fast little fooker he was!!!

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By *kywatcherMan
over a year ago

Southwick

I’d really expected to be crammed in like sardines much in the way the crowds were in the club grounds during the rounds before the final….

I kinda felt the collective crush was a missing part of creating a passionate furore on those Wembly terraces,

Although it probably doesn’t help my cause here by admitting we played shyte and lost the game…!!!!

But hey at least I got there,,,

Is your team Newcastle soxy as Sunderland won there in 73 ?

Wasn't it an own goal that won the game and I'm pretty certain veteran striker Mick Channon was playing for Norwich ?

Yeah deflected own goal won it for them and we missed a penalty ,,,,,

I'm sure you're right about Mick Channon too,,,,, but it's a long time ago and my memory ain't as good as it used to be,,,, but yeah I'm pretty sure your right he did play....

I know it was Clive Walker who missed the penalty for us,,,, but I forgave him because we would probably never have even reached the final without him .... fast little fooker he was!!!

Didn't realise he turned out for Sunderland...he was good at Brighton. Johnny Byrne turned out for both clubs too..from memory!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are you sure nothing is better?so what your saying is you don't get racism and violence these day, and as for accessibility woman and children have been going long before sky or the changes football has gone through came into force"

Much less racism, much less violence, much more of a mix of age and sexes. Most people would believe these changes are for the better, do you?

This is obviously going to impact or change the 'atmosphere'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How do you work out there is much less racism now than there was in previous times.

We're told repeatedly that racism is now rampant in football yet in the 60's 70's say we even tolerated even such as wee ginger Scot Bremner (just).

OK it took a while to forgive the Germans, or at least accept their now better footballers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Since segregation of supporters came in its got worse along with cost of going to games the so called normal fan will probably not be able to afford werkly games.

Do not get me wrong segregation is the fault of a minority of fans intent on trouble but spoil it for majority who go just to support their team.

In both codes of rugby fans of both teams generally mix and whilst passionately support their teams but after games folk gather in bar etc and relax. Families are in abundance as its a safe environment. I wish footy was the same in this respect but sadly not.

Since the removing of terraces etc the stadiums in my view have to a point become too sanitised.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just a thought, for rugby league fans, do you find the atmosphere is so much better than at footie, especially so when fans mingle?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How do you work out there is much less racism now than there was in previous times.

Is that a serious question?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Go to 2 music venues to watch the same band. 1 seated 1 standing. Even in a small crowd you can feel the difference in audience energy. Scale that up and the difference is between an exciting game, and an ok match

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How do you work out there is much less racism now than there was in previous times.

Is that a serious question?"

Yes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is significantly much less overt racism displayed on the terraces today than in the 70's, 80's or even 90's. The overt far right wing elements that found a breeding ground in certain sections of football support are almost non existant in stadia in the UK today. It is simply unrecognisable.

To remind yourself of just how far we have come simply look at 'football support' in some Eastern European countries or Italy.

Yes there are still isolated incidents, but I think you'd have a job trying to convince anyone that overt racism has not reduced dramatically in football stadia in the UK.

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By *allDarkFoxForYou OP Man
over a year ago

Winchester/London

"There is significantly much less overt racism displayed on the terraces today than in the 70's, 80's or even 90's. The overt far right wing elements that found a breeding ground in certain sections of football support are almost non existant in stadia in the UK today. It is simply unrecognisable.

To remind yourself of just how far we have come simply look at 'football support' in some Eastern European countries or Italy.

Yes there are still isolated incidents, but I think you'd have a job trying to convince anyone that overt racism has not reduced dramatically in football stadia in the UK. "

Spot on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To remind yourself of just how far we have come simply look at 'football support' in some Eastern European countries or Italy.

Yes there are still isolated incidents, but I think you'd have a job trying to convince anyone that overt racism has not reduced dramatically in football stadia in the UK. "

And from the 60's, 50's?

Even Bert Trautmann was a hero. To some.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Alternatively, on a positive note, you could argue that clubs such as Man Utd ( Chelsea and others too) have done wonders in there team selections :

Man Utd, to name a few. Kagawa - Japanese, Ji Sung Park - Korean, Kanchelskis - Russian, Schmeichel - Scandinavian, Evra - Senegalese, Anderson - Brazilian, Valencia - Ecuadorian, Vidic - Slavic, Henriquez - Chilean, Cantona - French, Hernandez - Mexican,

Not to mention Garth Crooks.

Can't recall an Innuit but i'm sure if one was good enough he'd be picked.

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