FabSwingers.com forum: Thatcher and Savile

By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

You couldn't make this stuff up.

"Senior civil servants repeatedly warned Margaret Thatcher about the risks of giving Jimmy Savile a knighthood in the 1980s, one describing the broadcaster as a "strange and complex man".

Newly released documents show the ex-prime minister lobbied officials for recognition of Savile's charity work.

But mandarins rebuffed her requests, citing Savile's "manner of life" and fears he might exploit the honour.

Savile, a friend of the former PM, was ultimately knighted in 1990."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23355531

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

doesnt surprise me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He managed to hoodwink an entire nation for years,,,,,

So even with the warnings, I don't feel overly outraged a few politicians or civil servants where fooled by the despicable manipulative public persona he manufactured to help disguise the vile nature of his behind the scene activity…..

If the motive for giving him a knighthood was simply as recognition for his charitable work at the time I don't think anyone should be pilloried for that now ….

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"If the motive for giving him a knighthood was simply as recognition for his charitable work at the time I don't think anyone should be pilloried for that now ….

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don't really see the point of this to be fair. Can we change it? No. They are both dead now so no one to answer any questions. It's not like she broke the law and at the time nothing was proven against saville.

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"He managed to hoodwink an entire nation for years,,,,,

The civil servants weren't fooled. They kept suggesting Thatcher ought not to pursue her plans.

"If the motive for giving him a knighthood was simply as recognition for his charitable work at the time I don't think anyone should be pilloried for that now ….

That's a big If. Savile and Thatcher were pals.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the motive for giving him a knighthood was simply as recognition for his charitable work at the time I don't think anyone should be pilloried for that now ….

That's a big If. Savile and Thatcher were pals."

It's not a big "If" for me....

I don't have a political axe to grind, and if I did it would be against something as trivial as raising question marks over the historic selection process used nominating someone to receive a knighthood for their charitable work which helped generate millions of pounds and raise awareness of so many good causes at that time ...

I don’t think even to most vociferous opponent of Mrs Thatcher would serioulsy suggest she would ever condone giving a knighthood to a proven paedophile let alone count one as a close friend.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the motive for giving him a knighthood was simply as recognition for his charitable work at the time I don't think anyone should be pilloried for that now ….

That's a big If. Savile and Thatcher were pals.

It's not a big "If" for me....

I don’t think even to most vociferous opponent of Mrs Thatcher would serioulsy suggest she would ever condone giving a knighthood to a proven paedophile let alone count one as a close friend.

Lol. As much as people want to hate her and her legacy, I suspect that if she truly believed he was a paedophile she'd probably have not given him a knighthood. Having said that people were naive in that era about paedophiles in the same way we are now convinced every man that looks at a child in any way whatsoever is clearly a wrongun!

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By *heScotandthegirlCouple
over a year ago

London & Edinburgh

They still both tried to fuck the whole country.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They still both tried to fuck the whole country....."

Ahh that's a different conversation altogether

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I think these things should be discussed still, it's the only (slim) chance.we have of preventing a reoccurrence. Complacency and not talking about it is how it happened in the first place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think these things should be discussed still, it's the only (slim) chance.we have of preventing a reoccurrence. Complacency and not talking about it is how it happened in the first place."

Thats a very fair point,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think these things should be discussed still, it's the only (slim) chance.we have of preventing a reoccurrence. Complacency and not talking about it is how it happened in the first place."

True, but sadly what most are using it for is to demonstrate how they'd never have been caught out by this because it was so obvious. (I have to say as a foreigner it was bloody obvious!) however he was a British institution in a time when people still wanted those

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I dunno how saville can be viewed as some one man army

various people knew throughout the years, dont give him all the 'credit' for being some mastermind manipulator ffs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think any system used will contain flaws and it’s impractical to propose a vetting procedure so stringent it would require invasive delving into peoples behaviour to the extent where their private sex lives becomes a contributory factor…

However proven criminal activity is a different proposition, and in my opinion should preclude anyone from nomination to the honours list,,,,,

We have a system in place where honours can be removed when retrospective information comes to light about someone’s previous misdemeanours or when a individual falls from grace having already received honours recognition…

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You lot should be worried what else is out there as Mr Savile is nothing, he's just at the top of the heap! What else is being covered up and still going on?

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

They are both dead.......Soxy has a point, wasn't he given his knighthood for his charity work? Or was Margaret Thatcher "in on it" as well?

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"They are both dead.......Soxy has a point, wasn't he given his knighthood for his charity work? Or was Margaret Thatcher "in on it" as well?"

Savile's 'charitable' work gave him access to vulnerable youngsters.

Would people be as understanding had he used his not inconsiderable wealth to traipse off to the Far East and buy that access (a la Gary Glitter)?

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"They are both dead.......Soxy has a point, wasn't he given his knighthood for his charity work? Or was Margaret Thatcher "in on it" as well?

Savile's 'charitable' work gave him access to vulnerable youngsters.

Would people be as understanding had he used his not inconsiderable wealth to traipse off to the Far East and buy that access (a la Gary Glitter)?

"
He was in on it as well then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 19/07/13 10:36:18]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are both dead.......Soxy has a point, wasn't he given his knighthood for his charity work? Or was Margaret Thatcher "in on it" as well?

Savile's 'charitable' work gave him access to vulnerable youngsters.

Would people be as understanding had he used his not inconsiderable wealth to traipse off to the Far East and buy that access (a la Gary Glitter)?

I don't see the value of trying to make a salient point by offering a hypothetical scenario based on the reprehensible behaviour of someone else..

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"They are both dead.......Soxy has a point, wasn't he given his knighthood for his charity work? Or was Margaret Thatcher "in on it" as well?

Savile's 'charitable' work gave him access to vulnerable youngsters.

Would people be as understanding had he used his not inconsiderable wealth to traipse off to the Far East and buy that access (a la Gary Glitter)?

I don't see the value of trying to make a salient point by offering a hypothetical scenario based on the reprehensible behaviour of someone else.."

I don't see the point in trying to excuse unforgivable behaviour on the grounds he 'was nice tae his mither'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are both dead.......Soxy has a point, wasn't he given his knighthood for his charity work? Or was Margaret Thatcher "in on it" as well?

Savile's 'charitable' work gave him access to vulnerable youngsters.

Would people be as understanding had he used his not inconsiderable wealth to traipse off to the Far East and buy that access (a la Gary Glitter)?

I don't see the value of trying to make a salient point by offering a hypothetical scenario based on the reprehensible behaviour of someone else..

I don't see the point in trying to excuse unforgivable behaviour on the grounds he 'was nice tae his mither'."

I fully don’t understand where your verbal crusade is heading here...

Can you point me in the direction of any posts in these forums that condone any of his vile behaviours..... or indeed can you point me in the direction of anyone in Briton who isn't appalled and disgusted by the revelations about his secret activity surfaced into the public domain after his death…?

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"...... wasn't he given his knighthood for his charity work?......."

What difference does it make WHY he was given a K? Does the fact he did charitable work excuse his other activities?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...... wasn't he given his knighthood for his charity work?.......

What difference does it make WHY he was given a K? Does the fact he did charitable work excuse his other activities?

A knighthood is living order that ceases when you die……

So what would you like to see happen now?

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By *bbandflowCouple
over a year ago

South Devon

Like others can't see OP's point other than to vilify Thatcher. She won't have been the first or the last, across the political spectrum, to have been retrospectively compromised by the unlawful actions of those deemed worthy at the time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Onny you have to let it go or you'll take this bitterness to your grave.

She was in power last century and has been dead a while. You still can't blame all of life's wrongs on her. Once you come to terms with this you will be a jollier soul altogether.

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By *rtemisiaWoman
over a year ago

Norwich

As a kid I used to watch Jim'll Fix It and even then, although the Fix was cool, the weird guy in the big chair gave me the creeps. Hence, thank Christ, I never wrote in!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Onny you have to let it go or you'll take this bitterness to your grave.

She was in power last century and has been dead a while. You still can't blame all of life's wrongs on her. Once you come to terms with this you will be a jollier soul altogether. "

....

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"...... wasn't he given his knighthood for his charity work?.......

What difference does it make WHY he was given a K? Does the fact he did charitable work excuse his other activities?

A knighthood is living order that ceases when you die……

..................."

'The evil men do lives after them, the good is oft interred with their bones'.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

If the motive for giving him a knighthood was simply as recognition for his charitable work at the time I don't think anyone should be pilloried for that now ….

That's a big If. Savile and Thatcher were pals.

It's not a big "If" for me....

I don’t think even to most vociferous opponent of Mrs Thatcher would serioulsy suggest she would ever condone giving a knighthood to a proven paedophile let alone count one as a close friend.

Well said

The problem is that the Thatcher haters will use anything to try to besmirch her name. The fact that the bastion of champagne socialism the BBC feted him for years while senior civil servants supposedly knew about his other side is conveniently swept under the carpet. Or are the Thatcher revelations a left wing smoke screen to deflect any more flak that maybe heading in that direction?

The truth of it is that the left are just bitter and twisted because she shafted them 3 times.

Oh, and Jimmy Saville is still dead.

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

..........

Oh, and Jimmy Saville is still dead."

As, indeed, is the Auld Hoor.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

..........

Oh, and Jimmy Saville is still dead.

As, indeed, is the Auld Hoor."

She still lives on in your mind though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I wouldn't even bother recalling his knighthood THAT was given for his charity work and is indicative of his great success in that area

The man is dead so rescinding it now would have no effect in HIM - he died knowing he was knighted (personally I don't hold titled or aristos in any awe)

As regards the paedophilia aspect that is utterly reprehensible but he HASN'T been rewarded for that!

And while his corpse retains his title it remains as a sobering warning that paedophiles are not just folk in dirty Macs living on sink estates (or whatever other lifestyle you care to insert)

To me the reversal of his knighthood is merely a kneejerk reaction long after the event

By all means vilify the man for his despicable behaviour but like it/lump it he died as Sir jimmy saville

As for Thatcher - well a woman of her entrenched views would obviously NOT have approved a knighthood if she had been I'm possession of all da facts!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They still both tried to fuck the whole country....."

Spot on

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

I don't see the point in trying to excuse unforgivable behaviour on the grounds he 'was nice tae his mither'."

Kin ell Omny, no one of any political persuasion certainly on here has ever at any stage attempted to excuse his behaviour..

your a politically astute sort of guy, however your in danger of straying into 'david icke' irrationality with this one..

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

..........

Oh, and Jimmy Saville is still dead.

As, indeed, is the Auld Hoor."

I didn't realise that Harriet Harman had died, missed that one completely

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

..........

Oh, and Jimmy Saville is still dead.

As, indeed, is the Auld Hoor.

I didn't realise that Harriet Harman had died, missed that one completely

I thort it meant Theresa May lol

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

The truth of it is that the left are just bitter and twisted because she shafted them 3 times.

No, not all on the 'left' are..

its Politics, it happens as did Blair and his continuation and expansion of Maggie's free market ideology..

and that is where all (except the profiteers) of whatever Political hue have been shafted, not just the left..

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Funny how these "revelations" appeared within hours of the report that the BBC had blown 5 million of licence payers money on their Saville enquirys

A strange coincidence? I think not.

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

..........

Oh, and Jimmy Saville is still dead.

As, indeed, is the Auld Hoor.

She still lives on in your mind though. "

To forget would be to forgive - even the men in grey suits haven't forgiven her.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

..........

Oh, and Jimmy Saville is still dead.

As, indeed, is the Auld Hoor.

I didn't realise that Harriet Harman had died, missed that one completely

I thort it meant Theresa May lol

Maybe he meant Jackboot Jackie, at least she is politically dead. Probably sat at home watching some of hubby's taxpayer funded porno's.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

..........

Oh, and Jimmy Saville is still dead.

As, indeed, is the Auld Hoor.

She still lives on in your mind though.

To forget would be to forgive - even the men in grey suits haven't forgiven her."

Nothing to forgive. Compared to the current bunch of useless pricks we have now (of all colours) I'd have her back tomorrow.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

..........

Oh, and Jimmy Saville is still dead.

As, indeed, is the Auld Hoor.

She still lives on in your mind though.

To forget would be to forgive - even the men in grey suits haven't forgiven her."

Some people think it’s holding that makes one strong. Sometimes it’s letting go.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

..........

Oh, and Jimmy Saville is still dead.

As, indeed, is the Auld Hoor.

She still lives on in your mind though.

To forget would be to forgive - even the men in grey suits haven't forgiven her.

Some people think it’s holding that makes one strong. Sometimes it’s letting go."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

..........

Oh, and Jimmy Saville is still dead.

As, indeed, is the Auld Hoor.

She still lives on in your mind though.

To forget would be to forgive - even the men in grey suits haven't forgiven her."

I don't see anyone forgiving or forgetting him

But surely helping his victims move-on with their lives is not best served by continually refocusing attention on him and his vile acts….. or do you perhaps think otherwise?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lj8Qtkred8

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing eh! Did anyone raise an eyebrow when Saville was given his knighthood for his charity work? No. He manipulated an entire population. Sure, people had their doubts about him, but no proof. Why these people didn't come forward when given the knighthood was given, instead of waiting until he was dead is beyond me!

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Hindsight is such a wonderful thing eh! Did anyone raise an eyebrow when Saville was given his knighthood for his charity work? No. He manipulated an entire population. Sure, people had their doubts about him, but no proof. Why these people didn't come forward when given the knighthood was given, instead of waiting until he was dead is beyond me!"

My OP makes it clear some folks DID raise an eyebrow (or two) re Savile getting a gong.

"Senior civil servants repeatedly warned Margaret Thatcher about the risks of giving Jimmy Savile a knighthood in the 1980s, one describing the broadcaster as a "strange and complex man".

Thatcher chose to ignore/ overrule their concerns, bringing an air of respectability to Savile - which couldn't have done his chances of getting close to vulnerable people any harm at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My OP makes it clear some folks DID raise an eyebrow (or two) re Savile getting a gong.

"Senior civil servants repeatedly warned Margaret Thatcher about the risks of giving Jimmy Savile a knighthood in the 1980s, one describing the broadcaster as a "strange and complex man".

Thatcher chose to ignore/ overrule their concerns, bringing an air of respectability to Savile - which couldn't have done his chances of getting close to vulnerable people any harm at all."

So what do you want to see happen now?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My OP makes it clear some folks DID raise an eyebrow (or two) re Savile getting a gong.

"Senior civil servants repeatedly warned Margaret Thatcher about the risks of giving Jimmy Savile a knighthood in the 1980s, one describing the broadcaster as a "strange and complex man".

Thatcher chose to ignore/ overrule their concerns, bringing an air of respectability to Savile - which couldn't have done his chances of getting close to vulnerable people any harm at all."

My op wasn't aimed at your post in a negative way. I was actually agreeing with you! I.e. (sure, people had their doubts about him but no proof). My post was to highlight the fact that when he was given it, there was no public outcry, even from the masses he 'allegedly' abused.

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

".........

So what do you want to see happen now?

It'd be good to think it couldn't happen again but people tend to forget lessons unless they're reminded regularly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

anyone who watched the louis theroux documentary on saville while he was still alive must have had questions about the man came across on that as a very very strange man

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".........

So what do you want to see happen now?

It'd be good to think it couldn't happen again but people tend to forget lessons unless they're reminded regularly."

Do you include his victims in that statement,,,, or is it necessary for them to suffer further every time someone thinks we need a regular reminder…

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

".........

So what do you want to see happen now?

It'd be good to think it couldn't happen again but people tend to forget lessons unless they're reminded regularly.

Do you include his victims in that statement,,,, or is it necessary for them to suffer further every time someone thinks we need a regular reminder…

I doubt THEY need reminding but others certainly do.

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

[Removed by poster at 19/07/13 17:17:27]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".........

So what do you want to see happen now?

It'd be good to think it couldn't happen again but people tend to forget lessons unless they're reminded regularly.

Do you include his victims in that statement,,,, or is it necessary for them to suffer further every time someone thinks we need a regular reminder…

I doubt THEY need reminding but others certainly do."

So are your ok with his victims having to re-live their ordeal every time someone feels these un-named unspecified “others” need reminding….!.

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

".........

So what do you want to see happen now?

It'd be good to think it couldn't happen again but people tend to forget lessons unless they're reminded regularly.

Do you include his victims in that statement,,,, or is it necessary for them to suffer further every time someone thinks we need a regular reminder…

I doubt THEY need reminding but others certainly do.

So are your ok with his victims having to re-live their ordeal every time someone feels these un-named unspecified “others” need reminding….!.

I'd rather they didn't have to do so but I imagine every victim of every crime re-lives their ordeal every time something similar is mentioned.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

".........

So what do you want to see happen now?

It'd be good to think it couldn't happen again but people tend to forget lessons unless they're reminded regularly.

Do you include his victims in that statement,,,, or is it necessary for them to suffer further every time someone thinks we need a regular reminder…

I doubt THEY need reminding but others certainly do.

So are your ok with his victims having to re-live their ordeal every time someone feels these un-named unspecified “others” need reminding….!.

I'd rather they didn't have to do so but I imagine every victim of every crime re-lives their ordeal every time something similar is mentioned."

OK....So do you feel its necessary to repeatedly involve individual opinion regards Mrs Thatchers role in what later transpired….!.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

I suppose the bottom line is. Who cares about the victims as long as a bit of Thatcher bashing can be sneaked into it.

What next? Thatcher had a day trip to the twin towers in 1980 odd so she was responsible or connected to 911?

Some people would blame her for everything from the great plague to the south sea bubble if they thought they could get away with it.

And to any Liebour supporters clean up your own back yard before having a pop at someone elses. Stones and glass houses and all that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I suppose the bottom line is. Who cares about the victims as long as a bit of Thatcher bashing can be sneaked into it.

What next? Thatcher had a day trip to the twin towers in 1980 odd so she was responsible or connected to 911?

Some people would blame her for everything from the great plague to the south sea bubble if they thought they could get away with it.

And to any Liebour supporters clean up your own back yard before having a pop at someone elses. Stones and glass houses and all that.

Well said!

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I suppose the bottom line is. Who cares about the victims as long as a bit of Thatcher bashing can be sneaked into it.

What next? Thatcher had a day trip to the twin towers in 1980 odd so she was responsible or connected to 911?

Some people would blame her for everything from the great plague to the south sea bubble if they thought they could get away with it.

And to any Liebour supporters clean up your own back yard before having a pop at someone elses. Stones and glass houses and all that.

Well said!

Seldom have I seen such a non-sequitur but I suppose if it keeps the extreme right-wing away from polishing their jackboots, it's only to be expected.

BTW, did you know it's received wisdom that when Thatcher went to the US, she walked across the Atlantic?

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I suppose the bottom line is. Who cares about the victims as long as a bit of Thatcher bashing can be sneaked into it.

What next? Thatcher had a day trip to the twin towers in 1980 odd so she was responsible or connected to 911?

Some people would blame her for everything from the great plague to the south sea bubble if they thought they could get away with it.

And to any Liebour supporters clean up your own back yard before having a pop at someone elses. Stones and glass houses and all that.

Well said!

Seldom have I seen such a non-sequitur but I suppose if it keeps the extreme right-wing away from polishing their jackboots, it's only to be expected.

BTW, did you know it's received wisdom that when Thatcher went to the US, she walked across the Atlantic?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Seldom have I seen such a non-sequitur but I suppose if it keeps the extreme right-wing away from polishing their jackboots, it's only to be expected.

BTW, did you know it's received wisdom that when Thatcher went to the US, she walked across the Atlantic?"

Ok so do you feel its vital for the future protection of vulnerable children any repeated message contains opinion based information besmirching the name of a senior parliamentarian who in hindsight made an error of judgement formally recognising the charitable work being done by a corruptive charlatan?….

Or would you agree any vital message could still be effectively put across without focusing on Mrs Thatcher, and that by continually attempting to vilify her you are in fact diluting the validity of any proposed agenda solely aimed at preventing future occurrence of child abuse?

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

The vital message, as you put it, is that - despite the advice of her advisors - Thatcher insisted on honouring a paedophile.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The vital message, as you put it, is that - despite the advice of her advisors - Thatcher insisted on honouring a paedophile."

Hmmmm well I guess I’ll just have to accept that by not answering my questions you’ve provided an answer….!.

So I’ll drop out of this one now, because having the last word isn’t really important to me knowing I’ve provided clarity and justification regards the true nature of my opinion and views when replying to this thread…

So I’m comfortable with that……

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The vital message, as you put it, is that - despite the advice of her advisors - Thatcher insisted on honouring a paedophile."

is that 'public'..?

that their advice was that he was proven at that time to be what we now know he was..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

one of thatchers trusted mp's was chesters mp and our local mp peter morrison,the rumours came back up last year but basically they were he liked to fuck young boys,she never gave him the boot and like anything people stick with people they like and will do despite rumours unless theres a actual prosecution in which they like the police do when one of them gets caught out they get fucked off..........

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The vital message, as you put it, is that - despite the advice of her advisors - Thatcher insisted on honouring a paedophile."

Actually she honoured a charity worker who turned out to be a paedophile. She was warned but no one knows what those warnings were. Being creepy isn't a crime

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The vital message, as you put it, is that - despite the advice of her advisors - Thatcher insisted on honouring a paedophile."

And heres me thinking he was knighted for his charity work!

You live n learn eh!

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"The vital message, as you put it, is that - despite the advice of her advisors - Thatcher insisted on honouring a paedophile.

Actually she honoured a charity worker who turned out to be a paedophile. She was warned but no one knows what those warnings were. Being creepy isn't a crime "

She honoured a paedophile masquerading as a charity worker.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The vital message, as you put it, is that - despite the advice of her advisors - Thatcher insisted on honouring a paedophile.

Actually she honoured a charity worker who turned out to be a paedophile. She was warned but no one knows what those warnings were. Being creepy isn't a crime

She honoured a paedophile masquerading as a charity worker."

Actually with hindsight yes, but hindsight is always so much clearer isn't it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The vital message, as you put it, is that - despite the advice of her advisors - Thatcher insisted on honouring a paedophile.

Actually she honoured a charity worker who turned out to be a paedophile. She was warned but no one knows what those warnings were. Being creepy isn't a crime

She honoured a paedophile masquerading as a charity worker."

I'm sorry. But when he was knighted, did anyone come forward and accuse him THEN of molesting them? No, they came forward after he died. Where was the public outcry at the time of his knighthood? As i said earlier, hindsight is a wonderful thing eh!

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

[Removed by poster at 20/07/13 12:18:00]

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

At the risk of repeating my OP yet again.

"Senior civil servants repeatedly warned Margaret Thatcher about the risks of giving Jimmy Savile a knighthood in the 1980s, one describing the broadcaster as a "strange and complex man".

People who knew what was going on were telling Thatcher not to do it.

She ignored them. She was wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and premature hindsight is even better !!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

they all made mistakes....

we can take people who have been given honours thru history..

saville may be the latest example....

fred goodwin???? Lester Piggott for example....

hindsight is a great thing, but making a political point from it is cheap at best....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"At the risk of repeating my OP yet again.

"Senior civil servants repeatedly warned Margaret Thatcher about the risks of giving Jimmy Savile a knighthood in the 1980s, one describing the broadcaster as a "strange and complex man".

People who knew what was going on were telling Thatcher not to do it.

She ignored them. She was wrong."

'Strange and complex man' is a far cry from 'paedophile' though! Do you know if the actual word 'paedophile' used? Or are you just quoting from the media?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"At the risk of repeating my OP yet again.

"Senior civil servants repeatedly warned Margaret Thatcher about the risks of giving Jimmy Savile a knighthood in the 1980s, one describing the broadcaster as a "strange and complex man".

People who knew what was going on were telling Thatcher not to do it.

She ignored them. She was wrong."

I was once told by my mother that my father was a 'strange and complex man'.

I ignored her, she was wrong....he was just a man that would never listen to anybody else's opinion.....just sayin'...

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"At the risk of repeating my OP yet again.

"Senior civil servants repeatedly warned Margaret Thatcher about the risks of giving Jimmy Savile a knighthood in the 1980s, one describing the broadcaster as a "strange and complex man".

People who knew what was going on were telling Thatcher not to do it.

She ignored them. She was wrong."

I am no way a fan of Thatcher and she did imho many things wrong but you are distorting what is actually out there in the public domain at this time..

and in doing so you run the risk of allowing your own fixation it would seem dilute any valid points you have made..

It was not public knowledge at the time she honoured him nor was it when she initially wanted him to be honoured..

any debate can only take place on the fats at the time of that debate..

if in years to come that changes then so be it..

however that's not the case now..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"At the risk of repeating my OP yet again.

"Senior civil servants repeatedly warned Margaret Thatcher about the risks of giving Jimmy Savile a knighthood in the 1980s, one describing the broadcaster as a "strange and complex man".

People who knew what was going on were telling Thatcher not to do it.

She ignored them. She was wrong.

'Strange and complex man' is a far cry from 'paedophile' though! Do you know if the actual word 'paedophile' used? Or are you just quoting from the media?"

looking at what is on the BBC website, the term paedophile is never mentioned..

yes it would appear that the report has been redacted in parts but it doesn't refer to any issues such as we now know he did..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"At the risk of repeating my OP yet again.

"Senior civil servants repeatedly warned Margaret Thatcher about the risks of giving Jimmy Savile a knighthood in the 1980s, one describing the broadcaster as a "strange and complex man".

People who knew what was going on were telling Thatcher not to do it.

She ignored them. She was wrong.

'Strange and complex man' is a far cry from 'paedophile' though! Do you know if the actual word 'paedophile' used? Or are you just quoting from the media?

looking at what is on the BBC website, the term paedophile is never mentioned..

yes it would appear that the report has been redacted in parts but it doesn't refer to any issues such as we now know he did.. "

Exactly. So he was given the knighthood for his charity work. What next? Villify prince charles for shaking Ken Barlows hand in the rovers return??

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"...........

I am no way a fan of Thatcher and she did imho many things wrong but you are distorting what is actually out there in the public domain at this time.. "

The point you seem to be missing, perhaps intentionally, is that it wasn't in the public domain - it was information passed to the Prime Minister by senior officials.

" and in doing so you run the risk of allowing your own fixation it would seem dilute any valid points you have made..

If so, that's a risk I'm prepared to take.

Remember, there was no compulsion for Thatcher to honour Savile - she chose to do so.

..............."

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"At the risk of repeating my OP yet again.

"Senior civil servants repeatedly warned Margaret Thatcher about the risks of giving Jimmy Savile a knighthood in the 1980s, one describing the broadcaster as a "strange and complex man".

People who knew what was going on were telling Thatcher not to do it.

She ignored them. She was wrong."

If my reply to that was "non-sequitur" I think you need a new (preferably English) dictionary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A point which seems conveniently overlooked by the OP in reference to the BBC article mentioned at the start of this thread, is where that article explains Savile was not even awarded his knighthood while Mrs Thatcher was Prime Minister....

So surely her nomination could easily have been stopped if others in power shared similar concerns.!.

But I guess considering that scenario does not present the same level of opportunity for trying to lambaste Mrs T....

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

[Removed by poster at 20/07/13 13:32:02]

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"A point which seems conveniently overlooked by the OP in reference to the BBC article mentioned at the start of this thread, is where that article explains Savile was not even awarded his knighthood while Mrs Thatcher was Prime Minister.... ............

Is that accurate? Savile got his K in the Birthday Honours List in 1990 (that's June, isn't it?)

Thatcher was stabbed in the back by her own team in November 1990.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

So surely her nomination could easily have been stopped if others in power shared similar concerns.!.

But I guess considering that scenario does not present the same level of opportunity for trying to lambaste Mrs T....

Which is the whole point of this thread.

Was it Lenin or Trotsky who said "if you tell a lie enough times it eventually becomes the truth"

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The point you seem to be missing, perhaps intentionally, is that it wasn't in the public domain - it was information passed to the Prime Minister by senior officials"

Not missing the point whether 'intentionally' or otherwise..

there is no 'point', you have not made one ...

a vague assumption based on Political bias and your obvious view about her seems to be that the 'senior officials'

actually said 'Prime Minister, he is a paedophile'..

if they did its not public and lets be honest no one is ever going to say 'yep we knew for a fact that he was a paedophile at that time' but kept it schtum as he was a friend of Thatcher..

its a conspiracy theory, its baseless..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

and she honoured him for his 'charity' work..

regardless of what we all think of his vile behaviour he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others..

that's why he got the tap on the shoulder..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If the motive for giving him a knighthood was simply as recognition for his charitable work at the time I don't think anyone should be pilloried for that now ….

Hindsight is a wonderful thing."

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

So surely her nomination could easily have been stopped if others in power shared similar concerns.!.

But I guess considering that scenario does not present the same level of opportunity for trying to lambaste Mrs T....

Which is the whole point of this thread.

Was it Lenin or Trotsky who said "if you tell a lie enough times it eventually becomes the truth""

It was Goebbels. A right wing hero.

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"and she honoured him for his 'charity' work..

regardless of what we all think of his vile behaviour he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others..

that's why he got the tap on the shoulder.."

That makes it OK?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"and she honoured him for his 'charity' work..

regardless of what we all think of his vile behaviour he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others..

that's why he got the tap on the shoulder..

That makes it OK?"

makes what 'OK?'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is that accurate? Savile got his K in the Birthday Honours List in 1990 (that's June, isn't it?)

Thatcher was stabbed in the back by her own team in November 1990."

I'm only referencing the same article you've used to illustrate your contempt for the lady...... So if in doing so you now feel the need to shift your goal posts....

You go ahead b_nny lad,,,,

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Is that accurate? Savile got his K in the Birthday Honours List in 1990 (that's June, isn't it?)

Thatcher was stabbed in the back by her own team in November 1990.

I'm only referencing the same article you've used to illustrate your contempt for the lady...... So if in doing so you now feel the need to shift your goal posts....

You go ahead b_nny lad,,,,

When did pointing out a factual inaccuracy in someone's contribution to a thread become 'moving the goalposts?'

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"and she honoured him for his 'charity' work..

regardless of what we all think of his vile behaviour he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others..

that's why he got the tap on the shoulder..

That makes it OK?

makes what 'OK?'"

His charitable work makes the other stuff he did OK?

The fact he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others.."

I really don't think so.

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"and she honoured him for his 'charity' work..

regardless of what we all think of his vile behaviour he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others..

that's why he got the tap on the shoulder..

That makes it OK?

makes what 'OK?'"

His charitable work makes the other stuff he did OK?

The fact he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others.."

I really don't think so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having just read the article in full, not once is the word 'paedophile' mentioned. What IS mentioned, are the words, 'promiscuity' and 'aids'! Saville was a self confessed, promiscuous charity worker at the time. He said he could 'pick up lots of women while doing his charity runs' and THAT is what thatcher was warned against, as aids was little known at that time, and they feared it would interfere in the honours list!

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By *allDarkFoxForYouMan
over a year ago

Winchester/London

So surely her nomination could easily have been stopped if others in power shared similar concerns.!.

But I guess considering that scenario does not present the same level of opportunity for trying to lambaste Mrs T....

Which is the whole point of this thread.

Was it Lenin or Trotsky who said "if you tell a lie enough times it eventually becomes the truth""

A major political faux pas regards that quote as it has it's origins in the " Big lie " speech from the nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels which was made in 1928 although he didn't say those exact words as is often the case with misquotes that in the passage of history become quotes.

It was certainly nothing to do with Lenin or Trotsky and I'm a political scientist

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

So surely her nomination could easily have been stopped if others in power shared similar concerns.!.

But I guess considering that scenario does not present the same level of opportunity for trying to lambaste Mrs T....

Which is the whole point of this thread.

Was it Lenin or Trotsky who said "if you tell a lie enough times it eventually becomes the truth"

It was Goebbels. A right wing hero."

Nope. Originally attributed to Lenin, although Hitler and Goebbels did copy it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Harsh but fair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is that accurate? Savile got his K in the Birthday Honours List in 1990 (that's June, isn't it?)

Thatcher was stabbed in the back by her own team in November 1990.

I'm only referencing the same article you've used to illustrate your contempt for the lady...... So if in doing so you now feel the need to shift your goal posts....

You go ahead b_nny lad,,,,

When did pointing out a factual inaccuracy in someone's contribution to a thread become 'moving the goalposts?'"

Yeah ya seem to be kind losing your way a bit here….

You’ve started off not responding to direct questions with a direct answer relevant to the point raised against your opinion and now your even disputing the validity of the source you originally provided and saying its a not a relevent point to identify that anomaly ….

Sorry but it's time for me to step off this runaway train for now…hmmmmm

But I'm maybe jump back on later,,,,

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By *allDarkFoxForYouMan
over a year ago

Winchester/London

So surely her nomination could easily have been stopped if others in power shared similar concerns.!.

But I guess considering that scenario does not present the same level of opportunity for trying to lambaste Mrs T....

Which is the whole point of this thread.

Was it Lenin or Trotsky who said "if you tell a lie enough times it eventually becomes the truth"

It was Goebbels. A right wing hero.

Nope. Originally attributed to Lenin, although Hitler and Goebbels did copy it."

Lenin used a similar turn of phrase which stems from the quote from the modern psychologist William James (1842-1910) regarding that " there's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it ".

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"and she honoured him for his 'charity' work..

regardless of what we all think of his vile behaviour he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others..

that's why he got the tap on the shoulder..

That makes it OK?

makes what 'OK?'

His charitable work makes the other stuff he did OK?

The fact he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others.."

I really don't think so."

that's is so obviously a puerile 'question' which I will not answer as you seem to be just looking to divert away from your earlier fabrication..

your going round in ever decreasing circles, clutching at thin air to try and find something that was not public knowledge at the time of Saville being honoured in order to stick one into Thatcher..

she deserves criticism for that which is fact, anything else and its just 'oh I wish she had done x, y or z..

you have failed to acknowledge that the evidence is not there to back up what you state..

so i'm out of here..

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"and she honoured him for his 'charity' work..

regardless of what we all think of his vile behaviour he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others..

that's why he got the tap on the shoulder..

That makes it OK?

makes what 'OK?'

His charitable work makes the other stuff he did OK?

The fact he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others.."

I really don't think so.

that's is so obviously a puerile 'question' which I will not answer as you seem to be just looking to divert away from your earlier fabrication..

your going round in ever decreasing circles, clutching at thin air to try and find something that was not public knowledge at the time of Saville being honoured in order to stick one into Thatcher..

she deserves criticism for that which is fact, anything else and its just 'oh I wish she had done x, y or z..

you have failed to acknowledge that the evidence is not there to back up what you state..

so i'm out of here..

Yep. High time this ridiculous thread got kicked into the long grass.

I think we have done enough to show _nny as a minority of one on this subject. Job done methinks. Bye all

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Yep. High time this ridiculous thread got kicked into the long grass.

I think we have done enough to show _nny as a minority of one on this subject. Job done methinks. Bye all

tend to agree... just opotunistic and any reason to have a dig

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’ve always believed drawing conclusions just means people have stopped thinking….

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By *nny OP Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"and she honoured him for his 'charity' work..

regardless of what we all think of his vile behaviour he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others..

that's why he got the tap on the shoulder..

That makes it OK?

makes what 'OK?'

His charitable work makes the other stuff he did OK?

The fact he helped to raise an awful lot of money which has benefited others.."

I really don't think so.

that's is so obviously a puerile 'question' which I will not answer as you seem to be just looking to divert away from your earlier fabrication..

your going round in ever decreasing circles, clutching at thin air to try and find something that was not public knowledge at the time of Saville being honoured in order to stick one into Thatcher..

she deserves criticism for that which is fact, anything else and its just 'oh I wish she had done x, y or z..

you have failed to acknowledge that the evidence is not there to back up what you state..

so i'm out of here..

Yep. High time this ridiculous thread got kicked into the long grass.

I think we have done enough to show _nny as a minority of one on this subject. Job done methinks. Bye all

'Bye.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’ve always believed drawing conclusions just means people have stopped thinking….

Oop’s but I guess I should add,,, "just because I believe that, doesn’t mean I live bye it",,,,arf-arf,,,

See what I did there tee-hee,

,,,

Tee-Mc-Hee as the say in Scotland

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’ve always believed drawing conclusions just means people have stopped thinking….

Oop’s but I guess I should add,,, "just because I believe that, doesn’t mean I live bye it",,,,arf-arf,,,

See what I did there tee-hee,

,,,

Tee-Mc-Hee as the say in Scotland

Naw we don't! Its McTeehee actually!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’ve always believed drawing conclusions just means people have stopped thinking….

Oop’s but I guess I should add,,, "just because I believe that, doesn’t mean I live bye it",,,,arf-arf,,,

See what I did there tee-hee,

,,,

Tee-Mc-Hee as the say in Scotland

Naw we don't! Its McTeehee actually!

I'm going to need time to think about that...

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