FabSwingers.com forum: Zero hour contracts

By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

What's your view?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Load of shite

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's about as in-depth as you're going to get from me at this time of morning

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"That's about as in-depth as you're going to get from me at this time of morning"

Do you come back if you have more to say later.

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich

They give the employer control without resposibility.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

[Removed by poster at 03/07/13 08:03:39]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was on one many years ago and it suited me down to the ground. I only left when the employer wanted me to once again go back full time

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By *rsIdiotWoman
over a year ago

Bedworth

Great for the employers, shite for the employees

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yer my daughter is on one ! Goes from 12 hours a week some weeks to over 80 other weeks ! Its a joke ! Ok when you are 19 and living with mummy ! but not good if you need a reg wage !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't like them but its partof my job. And my job pays really well so a bit of a rock and hard place ??

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich

A company I used to work for tried this, they took a load of people on with 0 hr contracts and then ignored them for a couple of months. Later when we got busy they tried to get them in to work, quite a number agreed then didn't turn up. It cost the company a fortune in penalties for missed targets.

I thought it was as funny as fuck.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What's your view?"

I take it you mean salaried P.A?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Or no contract at all?

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By *rsIdiotWoman
over a year ago

Bedworth

My husband was on one for two years, he's got a full time job now thankfully. It's incredibly hard not knowing from one week to the next whether you're going to earn any money that week.

On the flip side. For an employer it's great having someone who can work as and when needed

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"A company I used to work for tried this, they took a load of people on with 0 hr contracts and then ignored them for a couple of months. Later when we got busy they tried to get them in to work, quite a number agreed then didn't turn up. It cost the company a fortune in penalties for missed targets.

I thought it was as funny as fuck."

That says more about the quality of the staff in my eyes. In seasonal work zero hours contracts make sense. Why would you have every body on 40 hour contracts when you have no work?

Zero hours works doe both employers and employees if handled correctly.

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich

On the flip side. For an employer it's great having someone who can work as and when needed"

Or it just means they don't have to have a coherent recruitment policy.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"Or no contract at all? "

You have a contract of employment but your contracted hours are zero. You and your employer Work out hours each week. Sometimes none sometimes loads.

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By *rs-Naughty_Mr-CuddlesCouple
over a year ago

Nr coleford

Im on one I think a lotvof companies are doing this one week can be doing 60 hrs yet other times 10

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By *teveanddebsCouple
over a year ago

Norwich

I thought it was as funny as fuck.

That says more about the quality of the staff in my eyes. In seasonal work zero hours contracts make sense. Why would you have every body on 40 hour contracts when you have no work?

Zero hours works doe both employers and employees if handled correctly. "

We had people on 40hr, 32hr, 20hr and seasonal contracts. If you can't plan a day from that lot there is something wrong. Sorry but if employers want commitment from staff it needs to work two ways.

0hr contracts are just a companies way of having their cake and eating it too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Or no contract at all?

You have a contract of employment but your contracted hours are zero. You and your employer Work out hours each week. Sometimes none sometimes loads. "

Although I have not come across them as the organisations I work for it would not be applicable I can see the pros and cons for both employers and employees.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

I thought it was as funny as fuck.

That says more about the quality of the staff in my eyes. In seasonal work zero hours contracts make sense. Why would you have every body on 40 hour contracts when you have no work?

Zero hours works doe both employers and employees if handled correctly.

We had people on 40hr, 32hr, 20hr and seasonal contracts. If you can't plan a day from that lot there is something wrong. Sorry but if employers want commitment from staff it needs to work two ways.

0hr contracts are just a companies way of having their cake and eating it too."

Some employees want them to as it suits them. Swings and roundabouts and all that jazz

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I was employing staff the company was making me take 0 and 4 hour contract staff and I must say nobody wanted them, the ones that took them were desperate just to get a chance at a job, always asking for bigger contracts/ more hours. Then they would try to find a second job so lose the perceived flexibility. Pay people a living wage for goodness sake anything less is exploitation. Yes some people want low contracts but mostly to suit them and tax credits limit hours they can work for example - results in lack of flexibility again.

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By *atasha_DavidCouple
over a year ago

Slough

They are the domain of bullying inadequate managements that think it gives them their cake and lets them eat it. There seems some confusion on this thread so far between what seems to be typical contracting or freelancing relationships and the pernicious employee rights busting zero hours contracts offered to the minimum waged.

I personally have witnessed people de-rota'd for daring to tell a manager they were wrong or refusing to double their hours week on week, of halving of staffs hours being recommended as a punishment for non compliance with unfair and unrealistic target setting that would have required the employees concerned to commit deception of their ultimate employer.

Companies think that zero hours contracts protect them from constructive dismissal or health and safety claims and without the protection afforded by union membership they may be right. Hopefully, since politicians of all colours are unwilling to act on this issue, somebody will find the courage to take one of these contracts to tribunal and we will start to see case law built to curtail them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes I support them though it will be interesting to see any implications if employer pension liabilities come into force (if indeed they do).

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

For many small companies with differing work schedules from month to month, Zero Hours Contracts can and do work well for both parties.

Particularly when the workers involved earn a basic wage that is considerably above and beyond minimum wage and has production bonuses built in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I need to know how much money I am getting at the end of the month. Not something I would consider.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Zero hours contracts are excellent... in the right circumstances.

There are plenty of reasons an individual may like a bit of extra cash from time to time or even just something to do, without having to commit to dedicated hours.

There are plenty of companies that benefit from a pool of experienced people they can contact when needed.... as long as the company accepts each of those people have the right to say "I'm not available that day".

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

When I was out of work two years ago, I was unfortunately a victim of Zero Hour Contract work.

I say victim, as the company said everything at the interview stage to signify that the work was permanent and at least 40 hours a week.

In reality, they messed me around; most of the time I got no work at all, but if I was lucky I might have get 8 hours a week. But when I did get work, I'd get as little as 1 hour's notice, especially early morning work, with a phone call at 4am requesting my attendance!!!!!!

I stayed 6 weeks and then gave up in frustration as sad to say I was better off on the dole (not that I'd ever want to say that!).

When I signed back on at my local Job Centre, their response was simply, "that company is notorious for Zero Hour Contracts; they promise you the earth but deliver nothing. We shouldn't say it, but we actually warn people if we hear they are going to work for that company!"

It also took me 8 months to get my P45 from the company too!

Zero Hour Contracts are rife in the Cleaning, Security, Food Handling, and seasonal job industries.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 03/07/13 10:22:53]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They are a nightmare.....however not as safe for employers as they think.....or try to hide behind.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

I understand the TUC are calling for a ban on zero hours contracts... which is pretty laughable considering how long they have been around.

There should of course be legislation to prevent rouge companies abusing the flexibility... though the NHS seems to be finding them more and more popular.

Someone suggested they are used to get around H&S legislation... what a load of bollox - no contract gets around H&S legislation.

Zero hours also fall under the Working Time Directive, which many employers and employees don't understand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They're shite and the people (agencies etc.) who dish them out like sweets are full of shite too. Don't believe a word when they tell you they've got loads of work for you. The kid telling you will be on commission to get you (and many, many others) on their books.

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Zero hours contracts are excellent... in the right circumstances.

There are plenty of reasons an individual may like a bit of extra cash from time to time or even just something to do, without having to commit to dedicated hours.

I agree re the right circumstances.

I'm involved with an organisation which has two ex- long term employees, now retired, on zero hours contracts and it suits both sides perfectly.

They have the experience and corporate knowledge to contribute when required and the (admittedly modest) wages are appreciated by the workers. Factor in that they feel they're still needed and are contributing to training their successors and it's OK all round.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I understand the TUC are calling for a ban on zero hours contracts... which is pretty laughable considering how long they have been around.

There should of course be legislation to prevent rouge companies abusing the flexibility... though the NHS seems to be finding them more and more popular.

Someone suggested they are used to get around H&S legislation... what a load of bollox - no contract gets around H&S legislation.

Zero hours also fall under the Working Time Directive, which many employers and employees don't understand."

Well said!, lots of false assumptions and industrial tribunals tend to always fall in favour of employee under these types of contracts.....

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

"I understand the TUC are calling for a ban on zero hours contracts... which is pretty laughable considering how long they have been around.

There should of course be legislation to prevent rouge companies abusing the flexibility... though the NHS seems to be finding them more and more popular.

Someone suggested they are used to get around H&S legislation... what a load of bollox - no contract gets around H&S legislation.

Zero hours also fall under the Working Time Directive, which many employers and employees don't understand.

Well said!, lots of false assumptions and industrial tribunals tend to always fall in favour of employee under these types of contracts....."

Agreed! Further to my previous post, I can add that Job Centres say that if someone gets caught up inadvertently in a Zero Hour Contract mess, benefits and decisions fall in favour of the employee. That's what happened to me!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I understand the TUC are calling for a ban on zero hours contracts... which is pretty laughable considering how long they have been around.

There should of course be legislation to prevent rouge companies abusing the flexibility... thoughh the NHS seems to be finding them more and more popular.

Someone suggested they are used to get around H&S legislation... what a load of bollox - no contract gets around H&S legislation.

Zero hours also fall under the Working Time Directive, which many employers and employees don't understand.

Well said!, lots of false assumptions and industrial tribunals tend to always fall in favour of employee under these types of contracts.....

The most important aspect is "common practice", should you find yourself on such a contract.....document weekly hrs, perks, treats, HR contact, disciplinarys etc........

Then should the need arise you have some nice grounds to work from..........

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By *atasha_DavidCouple
over a year ago

Slough

Someone suggested they are used to get around H&S legislation... what a load of bollox - no contract gets around H&S legislation.

Zero hours also fall under the Working Time Directive, which many employers and employees don't understand."

Thank you for your erudite critique of my previous post but from personal experience employers use zero hours contracts to bully workers with legitimate health and safety issues in to not reporting them FACT!

Since adherence to WTD is voluntary many zero hours contracts contain mandatory opt out clauses that ensure in order to get the work, workers sign away protection under WTD.

Most employers understand full well the requirements of the WTD and either bully workers in to signing away their rights or just ignore it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm on one now. Has plus and minus points really.

I can't guarantee what work I get each month- although I was self employed for years do no change there- although I have a fair idea as schedules are issued a couple if weeks in advance. The company are aware I can get offers elsewhere so unless I'm booked they can't guarantee I'm available at short notice. I've always got something to do somewhere so when I'm not working I do that (usually DIY stuff when I can tear myself away from Fab)

As long as you know what you're getting in to and can flexible they can sometimes work out well, plus you're not tied in to a long notice period if you get something else

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Someone suggested they are used to get around H&S legislation... what a load of bollox - no contract gets around H&S legislation.

Zero hours also fall under the Working Time Directive, which many employers and employees don't understand.

Since adherence to WTD is voluntary many zero hours contracts contain mandatory opt out clauses that ensure in order to get the work, workers sign away protection under WTD.

Most employers understand full well the requirements of the WTD and either bully workers in to signing away their rights or just ignore it."

Not entirely correct.....and I think you know it.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Thanks for the range of experiences.

I have mixed feelings: exploitative employers will use them badly and good flexible employers will use them well.

I am interested to see what Cable's review will uncover.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've had both good & bad experiences of these in the past. As a fulltime student & mother of young kids the hours I'm available vary from week to week

I've worked for firms who expected me to work long hours continually even when I'd explained my circumstances & others who were great when I explained that my time would be limited for the next 2 weeks.

As a supplemental income like mine they can work to all parties advantage, not so sure how they'd work as a main household income though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You dont get holiday pay either!

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

While they have suited me in the past I can see why they don't suit people who have financial responsibilities.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They are an opportunity to use people to fill staffing gaps as and when with no commitment what so ever

This may suit some people,it did me while I was at uni a while back,but I could pick and choose hrs,a lot of the time there is no choice and people need a certain amount of hrs to live

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You dont get holiday pay either!"

I do, based on the hours worked. (calculated on a 40hr week)

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Most employers understand full well the requirements of the WTD and either bully workers in to signing away their rights or just ignore it."

Made up - FACT!

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Since adherence to WTD is voluntary many zero hours contracts contain mandatory opt out clauses that ensure in order to get the work, workers sign away protection under WTD.

Again bollox. You may be talking about the total hours of work part of the WTD..... but the annual leave part isn't optional, it's a statutory right, as with other parts of the Directive.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Bullying someone into not reporting H&S issues has very little to do with the type of contract someone has, it's more to do with the type of employer they are generally.

Of course no one can stop an employee from contacting the HSE directly if an employer was breaking the law.

Sometimes shit employers only succeed in being shit employers because people do not have the good sense to do anything about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You dont get holiday pay either!"

I did.

Based on hours worked. Same as I get now where I'm not on zero hours but on a basic week of 10 hrs and can often do 24 hours. It's 12 or 12.5 % ( can't mind at the moment ) of total hours worked

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

What has really shocked me with this thread is the scaremongering from some people who have (deliberately?) twisted the facts to make the practice of Zero Hours employment seem worse than it is.

It won't suit everyone, particularly if they are the sole breadwinner in a household, but it does suit many Tens of Thousands of employees all over the country who find It suits them perfectly well.

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

Someone suggested they are used to get around H&S legislation... what a load of bollox - no contract gets around H&S legislation.

Zero hours also fall under the Working Time Directive, which many employers and employees don't understand.

Since adherence to WTD is voluntary many zero hours contracts contain mandatory opt out clauses that ensure in order to get the work, workers sign away protection under WTD.

Most employers understand full well the requirements of the WTD and either bully workers in to signing away their rights or just ignore it."

As someone who falls under the European tachograph laws, the WTD is NOT optional and I can't opt out. Therefore, I don't think a zero hours contract could ever work for my job.

Having said that, it's not something I would consider either as I also need to know what I'm earning every month

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