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Can you separate the art from the artist?

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe

Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

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By *elix SightedMan
2 weeks ago

Cloud 8

I’m with you on this, Phil. I have always been a committed fan of road cycling and supported Lance Armstrong as he continually defended himself against the accusations of doping.

As soon as he admitted it, he plummeted in my estimations. I chucked his two autobiographies, my sunglasses, live strong band and am pleased they’ve scratched his achievements from the annals.

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By *allipygousMan
2 weeks ago

Leicester


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down."

I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong.

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"I’m with you on this, Phil. I have always been a committed fan of road cycling and supported Lance Armstrong as he continually defended himself against the accusations of doping.

As soon as he admitted it, he plummeted in my estimations. I chucked his two autobiographies, my sunglasses, live strong band and am pleased they’ve scratched his achievements from the annals."

Oh my god he was an extreme example! The years of denial and then him eventually being forced to admit it just destroyed his reputation. Must have been tough for his fans to take.

I feel similarly about the steroid scandal in baseball, although some of those guys' home run records still stand, as not everything could be proven conclusively. The mountains of evidence make it pretty obvious though.

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong."

I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to.

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By *en_kMan
2 weeks ago

North West

Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct.

I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection.

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct.

I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection.

"

That's very interesting about some things being ok after a lot of time has passed, possibly because people only found out about them after them already being such well known, established brands. Chanel is another example.

And yeah, I'm with you Michael Jackson and Morrissey.

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By *lack Jack 4UMan
2 weeks ago

London

I do this daily. Separate different elements from an individual. If a Carpenter makes great furniture that is fit for purpose and aestheticly pleasing I can appreciate her work without knowing what her general character or personality is.

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By *ibblepilotMan
2 weeks ago

Preston

I still listen to mixes / CDs of Erick Morillo (DJ, producer for those unfamiliar - was actually the man behind 'i like to move it, move it' !!) but there is a slight feeling of unease given the circumstances. Should folk not watch Madagascar again !? Where do you draw the line?

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"I do this daily. Separate different elements from an individual. If a Carpenter makes great furniture that is fit for purpose and aestheticly pleasing I can appreciate her work without knowing what her general character or personality is. "

Honestly, at this point I'd rather know less about actors, musicians, sports stars etc. It would be much easier to enjoy everything 😄

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"I still listen to mixes / CDs of Erick Morillo (DJ, producer for those unfamiliar - was actually the man behind 'i like to move it, move it' !!) but there is a slight feeling of unease given the circumstances. Should folk not watch Madagascar again !? Where do you draw the line? "

I don't know what he did... I don't have any special affinity for the song or Madagascar, so what did he do?

I've noticed over the years that Gary Glitter still gets played as a victory song at American sporting events, I've always found that particularly horrifying

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By *onin25Man
2 weeks ago

Durham

For me, yes I can mostly separate the art from the artist, but it depends on the art and what the artist has done. And I generally draw a line on anything they did after whatever has come out.

Roman Polanski made two of my favourite films (Rosemary's Baby and Chinatown) before being charged of having sex with a 13 year old, fleeing the US and is still wanted there. All this happened before I was born but I found out about his acts after seeing the films.

He is still working as a film director now and has since won numerous awards including an oscar. I won't watch anything else he's made because of that and am amazed anyone is willing to work with him (huge stars have been in his films since then) but I still love those two films.

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By *onin25Man
2 weeks ago

Durham


"I still listen to mixes / CDs of Erick Morillo (DJ, producer for those unfamiliar - was actually the man behind 'i like to move it, move it' !!) but there is a slight feeling of unease given the circumstances. Should folk not watch Madagascar again !? Where do you draw the line?

I don't know what he did... I don't have any special affinity for the song or Madagascar, so what did he do?

I've noticed over the years that Gary Glitter still gets played as a victory song at American sporting events, I've always found that particularly horrifying"

They used one of his songs in the Joker movie

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By *aitonelMan
2 weeks ago

Liverpool

I can. It's largely just the way my brain works.

I believe I can fly, Remix to Ignition. These are awesome songs, R Kelly who?

Same applies to everything. If I was a fan of it before. If I was not a fan prior to any controversy that I don't agree with, yeah I'll generally just not approach anything new.

So anything with Jimmy Saville was before my time really, had no interest in anything of his growing up so the boycott of him was not exactly a stretch.

Essentially I'm in it for my own enjoyment, I'll not stop listening to music I liked, watching movies/shows I liked, reading books I liked because of the actions of the maker.

Chances are, if you dig deep enough there is not a thing in modern day entertainment that you would not be able to avoid attaching some form of controversy to within the creation process.

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By *ouseblendMan
2 weeks ago

Carshalton

I collect art and had a few Ben Eine works but came out he was not a nice person, domestic abuse etc.. so I sold them.

Antony Lister too, although I am not sure whether he has been found guilty of the charges made against him.

Cope2, graffiti artist, I didn't realise he was massively homophobic and generally a shit person until after buying his work, they are no longer in the house.

Rolf Harris for obvious reasons but was highly collectable before everything came out.

But other people wouldn't care and have bought the art for the art not for the artist

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"I can. It's largely just the way my brain works.

I believe I can fly, Remix to Ignition. These are awesome songs, R Kelly who?

Same applies to everything. If I was a fan of it before. If I was not a fan prior to any controversy that I don't agree with, yeah I'll generally just not approach anything new.

So anything with Jimmy Saville was before my time really, had no interest in anything of his growing up so the boycott of him was not exactly a stretch.

Essentially I'm in it for my own enjoyment, I'll not stop listening to music I liked, watching movies/shows I liked, reading books I liked because of the actions of the maker.

Chances are, if you dig deep enough there is not a thing in modern day entertainment that you would not be able to avoid attaching some form of controversy to within the creation process."

It is interesting how everyone has their own personal limits on what they will accept regarding this. It's a balancing act where you just have to find what works for you

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By *vaRoseWoman
2 weeks ago

Ankh-Morpork

Mostly no, I can’t. What I mean by that is I can have an admiration for their works and not their actions/beliefs… but I refuse to let them personally profit from me. If that person is still alive this is especially true. I won’t buy or support new products from problematic artists, I refuse to give them more of a platform to further their influence… but I can still enjoy artists like Dickens, he’s not going to profit anymore. I guess you could say it’s complicated.

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By *recticWoman
2 weeks ago

taunton

Mostly I can but Jacko I can’t. Evil genius pod cast is exactly based on this. Well worth a listen.

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By *naswingdressWoman
2 weeks ago

Manchester (she/her)

Mostly no. I stop consuming things from people if their views and actions cross moral lines for me.

I do allow myself the space to appreciate what their art has done for me. Some art changes you forever, even if you sell everything and never look at it again. That's still meaningful.

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By *allipygousMan
2 weeks ago

Leicester


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong.

I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to."

I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with.

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"Mostly I can but Jacko I can’t. Evil genius pod cast is exactly based on this. Well worth a listen. "

I haven't heard of this podcast but I'll check it out, thanks

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"Mostly no. I stop consuming things from people if their views and actions cross moral lines for me.

I do allow myself the space to appreciate what their art has done for me. Some art changes you forever, even if you sell everything and never look at it again. That's still meaningful."

That's a good point about appreciating what art has done for you. It changed you, and nothing the artist did afterwards (or when you became aware) can change that.

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By *onin25Man
2 weeks ago

Durham


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong.

I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to.

I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with."

I really hope the overwhelming amount of people on this planet aren't transphobic.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
2 weeks ago

Reading

Hitkers art was shit so that's an easy one.

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By *hilly1515Man
2 weeks ago

yep Art and ist

Is there a prize phil

Yes I get what you mean.

so I suppose it has some tie in with never meet your hero's to some extent.

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By *obilebottomMan
2 weeks ago

All over


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong.

I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to.

I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with.

I really hope the overwhelming amount of people on this planet aren't transphobic. "

One would be a rich person if there was a bet of when this guy will pop up in a thread. Certain topics seem to be his preoccupation. To each their own of course but ... oh well

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"

so I suppose it has some tie in with never meet your hero's to some extent."

Yes definitely. I've also learned it's just better not to have celebrities as heroes at all.

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By *allipygousMan
2 weeks ago

Leicester


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong.

I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to.

I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with.

I really hope the overwhelming amount of people on this planet aren't transphobic. "

Believing one thing doesn't make you another.

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By *allipygousMan
2 weeks ago

Leicester

[Removed by poster at 11/04/26 14:42:41]

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By *allipygousMan
2 weeks ago

Leicester


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong.

I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to.

I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with.

I really hope the overwhelming amount of people on this planet aren't transphobic.

One would be a rich person if there was a bet of when this guy will pop up in a thread. Certain topics seem to be his preoccupation. To each their own of course but ... oh well "

"...each to their own..." only when it suits, eh? If you see my challenging what I see as bullshit as my "preoccupation" then I'm happy to be occupied.

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By *og and MuseCouple
2 weeks ago

Dubai & Nottingham


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong.

I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to."

Well you bought her into the conversation so maybe you can find just one example of what she said or done, should be really easy for you if it's all over the Internet ?

Was it her comment that women have periods ? Or that sex is real ?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
2 weeks ago

East Sussex

Truthfully it depends how much I like the art.

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By *ang bang bangity bangCouple
2 weeks ago

Sunderland

I used to think maybe I could but I don't think I can. Neil Gaiman has always been one of my favourite authors but since all the stuff came out about him I've not been able to bring myself to read any of his books.

Mr

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By *utsackerMan
2 weeks ago

north east

Mainly when they are nonces I’ll never listen to them again, especially Michael Jackson which baffles me why they still play him on the wireless

Views they have expressed though no I couldn’t give a fuck everyone entitled to they opinion

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By *aitonelMan
2 weeks ago

Liverpool


"Mainly when they are nonces I’ll never listen to them again, especially Michael Jackson which baffles me why they still play him on the wireless

Views they have expressed though no I couldn’t give a fuck everyone entitled to they opinion "

Because he was found not guilty.

People only accept a guilty/not guilty verdict as true when it signs with their own opinion/belief

Problem is now, people go to far in the direction of public opinion and an accusation being a solid fact as guilty.

It's exhausting

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By *ontyboi76Man
2 weeks ago

Pontypridd

No I can't. Sadly Lost profits band lost out for their perv lead singer, same with pervert Jackson, binned albums. Luckily I find Harry Potter a nasty use of Tolkien work with a rip off of Star wars and more, so Rowlings words make no difference when she obsesses hating people, didn't like to start.

I feel someones work is personal, so they are always linked and can't be seperate.

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By *mileyculturebelfastMan
2 weeks ago

belfast


"Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct.

I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection.

That's very interesting about some things being ok after a lot of time has passed, possibly because people only found out about them after them already being such well known, established brands. Chanel is another example.

And yeah, I'm with you Michael Jackson and Morrissey. "

What about peel? Or bowie? Or pop?

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By *hesblokeMan
2 weeks ago

Derbyshire village

To a point, it gets tricky when you like 70s rock musicians, and I do feel bad for (say) members of a band when one of em turns out to be a wrong 'un.

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By *mileyculturebelfastMan
2 weeks ago

belfast

Its like in football.

People support glasgow celtc despite the open secret.

One person who supported them and was involved on football wouldnt let his own children join them until they were in their late teens.

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct.

I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection.

That's very interesting about some things being ok after a lot of time has passed, possibly because people only found out about them after them already being such well known, established brands. Chanel is another example.

And yeah, I'm with you Michael Jackson and Morrissey.

What about peel? Or bowie? Or pop?"

Yeah Peel and Bowie can get in the bin too. Who is pop, or do you mean the genre?

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong.

I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to.

I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with.

I really hope the overwhelming amount of people on this planet aren't transphobic.

One would be a rich person if there was a bet of when this guy will pop up in a thread. Certain topics seem to be his preoccupation. To each their own of course but ... oh well

"...each to their own..." only when it suits, eh? If you see my challenging what I see as bullshit as my "preoccupation" then I'm happy to be occupied."

Kind of like you saying the court of public opinion is a bad thing when it goes against something you like, yet you say most of the public believe what you do, in which case it's a good thing

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By *oyoteUglyWoman
2 weeks ago

Somewhere dark and gloomy

I guessed it depends on what they did, as in they are proven to have done. I still love Michael Jackson's music. And I love Harry Potter!

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By *aveyP800Man
2 weeks ago

Derby


"I’m with you on this, Phil. I have always been a committed fan of road cycling and supported Lance Armstrong as he continually defended himself against the accusations of doping.

As soon as he admitted it, he plummeted in my estimations. I chucked his two autobiographies, my sunglasses, live strong band and am pleased they’ve scratched his achievements from the annals."

Shock horror, sportman cheats!

Hard to break this too you mate but you'll never find one sportsman that hasn't cheated.

Also, the whole cycling field was doping at that time, and still are today but it's not that blatant.

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By *allipygousMan
2 weeks ago

Leicester


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong.

I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to.

I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with.

I really hope the overwhelming amount of people on this planet aren't transphobic.

One would be a rich person if there was a bet of when this guy will pop up in a thread. Certain topics seem to be his preoccupation. To each their own of course but ... oh well

"...each to their own..." only when it suits, eh? If you see my challenging what I see as bullshit as my "preoccupation" then I'm happy to be occupied.

Kind of like you saying the court of public opinion is a bad thing when it goes against something you like, yet you say most of the public believe what you do, in which case it's a good thing "

Public opinion and immutable facts are different, Phil.

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By *ools and the brainCouple
2 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.


"I’m with you on this, Phil. I have always been a committed fan of road cycling and supported Lance Armstrong as he continually defended himself against the accusations of doping.

As soon as he admitted it, he plummeted in my estimations. I chucked his two autobiographies, my sunglasses, live strong band and am pleased they’ve scratched his achievements from the annals."

The amount of disagreements I had with fellow club members defending Lance was ridiculous and I was adamant he was innocent.

In hindsight looking back it's was frigging obvious he was on juice.

I also threw my livestrong bands and autobiographies.

However I do believe that he did alot for testicular cancer awareness so he wasn't all bad but a total narcissist unfortunately.

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By *mileyculturebelfastMan
2 weeks ago

belfast


"Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct.

I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection.

That's very interesting about some things being ok after a lot of time has passed, possibly because people only found out about them after them already being such well known, established brands. Chanel is another example.

And yeah, I'm with you Michael Jackson and Morrissey.

What about peel? Or bowie? Or pop?

Yeah Peel and Bowie can get in the bin too. Who is pop, or do you mean the genre?"

Iggy pop...bowies mate.

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By *mileyculturebelfastMan
2 weeks ago

belfast


"I guessed it depends on what they did, as in they are proven to have done. I still love Michael Jackson's music. And I love Harry Potter! "

Same as the people who ignore perls child abuse because he played good music.

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct.

I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection.

That's very interesting about some things being ok after a lot of time has passed, possibly because people only found out about them after them already being such well known, established brands. Chanel is another example.

And yeah, I'm with you Michael Jackson and Morrissey.

What about peel? Or bowie? Or pop?

Yeah Peel and Bowie can get in the bin too. Who is pop, or do you mean the genre?

Iggy pop...bowies mate."

Got ya, and yes not a fan of him, or Anthony Kiedis, for similar reasons

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By *hil most chill OP   Man
2 weeks ago

London, South East & Europe


"I guessed it depends on what they did, as in they are proven to have done. I still love Michael Jackson's music. And I love Harry Potter!

Same as the people who ignore perls child abuse because he played good music."

A guy i worked with around the time of Michael Jackson's death, whenever someone would say they still love his music, he'd reply "yeah it's like Ian Huntley. Say what you want about the man, but he was a bloody good caretaker"

🤣

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By *ools and the brainCouple
2 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down."

It's not always possible to just stop the influence.

Example:

Growing up in the 80's like millions of others Michael Jackson was a massive influence and shaped the way many grew up, long before accusations.

It's extremely difficult to just ignore that part of your life, that whole period of the early /mid 80s shaped a whole generation.

Just because I listen to a song doesn't make me a wrong un, it just means I like that song.

I wouldn't buy his music now but if thriller comes on the radio I'd definitely sing along with it.

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By *mileyculturebelfastMan
2 weeks ago

belfast


"Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct.

I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection.

That's very interesting about some things being ok after a lot of time has passed, possibly because people only found out about them after them already being such well known, established brands. Chanel is another example.

And yeah, I'm with you Michael Jackson and Morrissey.

What about peel? Or bowie? Or pop?

Yeah Peel and Bowie can get in the bin too. Who is pop, or do you mean the genre?

Iggy pop...bowies mate.

Got ya, and yes not a fan of him, or Anthony Kiedis, for similar reasons"

Yeah ive seen people mention rhcp on here. Kiedus didnt even hide it.

He wrote a song about it.

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By *mileyculturebelfastMan
2 weeks ago

belfast


"I guessed it depends on what they did, as in they are proven to have done. I still love Michael Jackson's music. And I love Harry Potter!

Same as the people who ignore perls child abuse because he played good music.

A guy i worked with around the time of Michael Jackson's death, whenever someone would say they still love his music, he'd reply "yeah it's like Ian Huntley. Say what you want about the man, but he was a bloody good caretaker"

🤣"

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By *mileyculturebelfastMan
2 weeks ago

belfast


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

It's not always possible to just stop the influence.

Example:

Growing up in the 80's like millions of others Michael Jackson was a massive influence and shaped the way many grew up, long before accusations.

It's extremely difficult to just ignore that part of your life, that whole period of the early /mid 80s shaped a whole generation.

Just because I listen to a song doesn't make me a wrong un, it just means I like that song.

I wouldn't buy his music now but if thriller comes on the radio I'd definitely sing along with it."

He shouldnt be on the radio.

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By *ools and the brainCouple
2 weeks ago

couple, us we him her.


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

It's not always possible to just stop the influence.

Example:

Growing up in the 80's like millions of others Michael Jackson was a massive influence and shaped the way many grew up, long before accusations.

It's extremely difficult to just ignore that part of your life, that whole period of the early /mid 80s shaped a whole generation.

Just because I listen to a song doesn't make me a wrong un, it just means I like that song.

I wouldn't buy his music now but if thriller comes on the radio I'd definitely sing along with it.

He shouldnt be on the radio."

Why?

Nothing was ever proven nor was he ever convicted.

Obviously this doesn't make him innocent but he's long dead .

I'm not defending him just the facts.

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By *oyoteUglyWoman
2 weeks ago

Somewhere dark and gloomy


"I guessed it depends on what they did, as in they are proven to have done. I still love Michael Jackson's music. And I love Harry Potter!

Same as the people who ignore perls child abuse because he played good music.

A guy i worked with around the time of Michael Jackson's death, whenever someone would say they still love his music, he'd reply "yeah it's like Ian Huntley. Say what you want about the man, but he was a bloody good caretaker"

🤣"

Slight difference

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By (user no longer on site)
2 weeks ago


"I guessed it depends on what they did, as in they are proven to have done. I still love Michael Jackson's music. And I love Harry Potter!

Same as the people who ignore perls child abuse because he played good music.

A guy i worked with around the time of Michael Jackson's death, whenever someone would say they still love his music, he'd reply "yeah it's like Ian Huntley. Say what you want about the man, but he was a bloody good caretaker"

🤣"

That's funny but possibly not the way you think.

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By *mileyculturebelfastMan
2 weeks ago

belfast


"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass?

For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go.

For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years.

I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years.

I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer.

I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc.

So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down.

It's not always possible to just stop the influence.

Example:

Growing up in the 80's like millions of others Michael Jackson was a massive influence and shaped the way many grew up, long before accusations.

It's extremely difficult to just ignore that part of your life, that whole period of the early /mid 80s shaped a whole generation.

Just because I listen to a song doesn't make me a wrong un, it just means I like that song.

I wouldn't buy his music now but if thriller comes on the radio I'd definitely sing along with it.

He shouldnt be on the radio.

Why?

Nothing was ever proven nor was he ever convicted.

Obviously this doesn't make him innocent but he's long dead .

I'm not defending him just the facts."

He wasnt convicted because he was rich.

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By (user no longer on site)
2 weeks ago

I think there's something a little unsettling and unhealthy about accusation culture. The expression 'every accusation is a confession' has some truth to it.

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By *mileyculturebelfastMan
2 weeks ago

belfast


"I think there's something a little unsettling and unhealthy about accusation culture. The expression 'every accusation is a confession' has some truth to it."

Whats that got to do with disliming people due to their actions or beliefs?

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By *en_kMan
1 week ago

North West

Appreciate the heads up on Pop and Bowie. I hadn’t heard about the Baby Groupies thing before. Read a little last night and will now no longer listen to Pops Radio 6 show. His acknowledgment that he sex with a 13 yo girl amongst others in the 70s trumps his good music choice today.

If you say it doesn’t matter then the survivors don’t matter. The grooming gangs coming to light from the social, artistic and political ‘elites’ of the 60s and 70s and beyond need to made public and be held fully accountable for what they did.

Westwood, Denning, Mills and others have, so maybe now Pop

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
1 week ago

Crumpet Castle

Ignorance and Bliss and Hatred go hand in hand in hand .....

People keep themselves ignorant by listening to unsubstantiated one sided hype and taking it as gospel.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
1 week ago

Crumpet Castle


"I think there's something a little unsettling and unhealthy about accusation culture. The expression 'every accusation is a confession' has some truth to it."

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By *ate2theparty808Man
1 week ago

Erdington

I hate Morresy, but I still listen to the smiths

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By *ostindreamsMan
1 week ago

London

It's easy to say, "The guy is a genius but quite an arsehole." Things get complicated when you look at the economics of it. You could maybe avoid buying someone's painting because he has done some questionable things. But it doesn't make sense to not buy a song because one of the people in the band is bad. You end up punishing the others for that.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
1 week ago

Crumpet Castle


"I’m with you on this, Phil. I have always been a committed fan of road cycling and supported Lance Armstrong as he continually defended himself against the accusations of doping.

As soon as he admitted it, he plummeted in my estimations. I chucked his two autobiographies, my sunglasses, live strong band and am pleased they’ve scratched his achievements from the annals."

To me that reads that you abandoned the 'person' and not your interest in the sport.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
1 week ago

Crumpet Castle


"Appreciate the heads up on Pop and Bowie. I hadn’t heard about the Baby Groupies thing before. Read a little last night and will now no longer listen to Pops Radio 6 show. His acknowledgment that he sex with a 13 yo girl amongst others in the 70s trumps his good music choice today.

If you say it doesn’t matter then the survivors don’t matter. The grooming gangs coming to light from the social, artistic and political ‘elites’ of the 60s and 70s and beyond need to made public and be held fully accountable for what they did.

Westwood, Denning, Mills and others have, so maybe now Pop

"

This point of view is somewhat myopic. It fails to take into account changes in culture historically. What is wrong now may not have been decades to a century ago.

Also .... just how far back in history are you going to go ??? and is it just pop stars, d.j.'s and BBC personnel ?

Shall we start with everyday men who lust after women barely over the legal age ? We need more prisons

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By *ai Hard 2 - Dai HarderMan
1 week ago

Manchester / Cardiff

So long as the two remain distinctly separate, yes I can still appreciate the art despite the artists 'endeavours'.

If said indiscretions had a direct impact or influence to their success I do feel differently (Lance Armstrong a good example above), but if the art and the indiscretion are completly separate then I still appreciate the art.

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By *en_kMan
1 week ago

North West


"Appreciate the heads up on Pop and Bowie. I hadn’t heard about the Baby Groupies thing before. Read a little last night and will now no longer listen to Pops Radio 6 show. His acknowledgment that he sex with a 13 yo girl amongst others in the 70s trumps his good music choice today.

If you say it doesn’t matter then the survivors don’t matter. The grooming gangs coming to light from the social, artistic and political ‘elites’ of the 60s and 70s and beyond need to made public and be held fully accountable for what they did.

Westwood, Denning, Mills and others have, so maybe now Pop

This point of view is somewhat myopic. It fails to take into account changes in culture historically. What is wrong now may not have been decades to a century ago.

Also .... just how far back in history are you going to go ??? and is it just pop stars, d.j.'s and BBC personnel ?

Shall we start with everyday men who lust after women barely over the legal age ? We need more prisons "

Think that taking it to your conclusion is a little disingenuous.

Iggy Pop is still relevant today and has written about it. The question posed was about separating the art from the artist hence Pop stars, djs etc were most relevant to my terms of reference, but if we are broadening the question then, each case on merit, but yes those in history should be held accountable

My original post accepted a time related softening (vw, Boss, Wagner etc) but the 70s? Where do you suggest the cut off point is?

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By *alandNitaCouple
1 week ago

Scunthorpe

I definitely can separate the artist from the art, I think it's a real shame when good music is suddenly banned by all media outlets because their singer was a criminal. It also seems incredibly unfair on everyone else who was involved in making the music... they've done nothing wrong and suddenly their main source of royalties is taken away.

Cal

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