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By *wingerdelight OP   Couple
over a year ago

eastliegh

thinking about recent events, is religion to blame or would these people follow any path offered, it does seem that religion is at the route of most of the worlds ills, even going back in the past and christianity isnt blameles

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Believe in a 2000 year old fairy story, or believe in a 1500 year old fairy story. or believe in the tooth fairy. Not much difference.

Or as Karl Marx said. Religion is the Opium of the masses.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"thinking about recent events, is religion to blame or would these people follow any path offered, it does seem that religion is at the route of most of the worlds ills, even going back in the past and christianity isnt blameles"

So what's your point?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"as Karl Marx said. Religion is the Opium of the masses."

Or, as Steven Weinberg more aptly put it:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

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By *wingerdelight OP   Couple
over a year ago

eastliegh


"thinking about recent events, is religion to blame or would these people follow any path offered, it does seem that religion is at the route of most of the worlds ills, even going back in the past and christianity isnt blameles

So what's your point?"

would these people do these things anyway?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Religion isn't to blame

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Religion is to blame. It makes ppl act without thinking or justifying their actions by an incredible fallacy.

The more ignorant you are, the more likely you are to be religious...

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"thinking about recent events, is religion to blame or would these people follow any path offered, it does seem that religion is at the route of most of the worlds ills, even going back in the past and christianity isnt blameles

So what's your point?

would these people do these things anyway?"

Derek Bird, Harold Shipmen, Roal Moat, Ian Huntley et al did evil things, no mention of religion, so I'll refrain: what's your real point?

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By *wingerdelight OP   Couple
over a year ago

eastliegh


"thinking about recent events, is religion to blame or would these people follow any path offered, it does seem that religion is at the route of most of the worlds ills, even going back in the past and christianity isnt blameles

So what's your point?

would these people do these things anyway?

Derek Bird, Harold Shipmen, Roal Moat, Ian Huntley et al did evil things, no mention of religion, so I'll refrain: what's your real point? "

well that was my point really, does religion move people to do horrible things

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By *ichaelangelaCouple
over a year ago

notts

if many people talk to an imaginary friend, it's called religion.

if just one person talks to an imaginary friend, its called insanity and they lock you away

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By *wingerdelight OP   Couple
over a year ago

eastliegh


"if many people talk to an imaginary friend, it's called religion.

if just one person talks to an imaginary friend, its called insanity and they lock you away "

love that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have been christened when I was younger and means nothing to me. I like to believe there is something after death and to an extent you should be rewarded how you live your life. That said generally if you live your life well you are rewarded with good freinds and good laughs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you have to put in perspective whereby the majority of followers in any religion don’t go around creating disharmony and conflict. The trouble comes from a minority of fanatical followers who’s extremist behaviour tarnishes the reputation of that religion….!.

Many people simply find their own peace in faith and that can't be a bad thing...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Religion deffo not to blame. In fact it keeps people on the right path in most cases. Dont forget our whole law system is based on religion 'thou shall not steal' etc the 10 commandments. It really does keep most on track. Its just a few crazy people who do crazy stuff then use religion as an excuse

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Religion is to blame. It makes ppl act without thinking or justifying their actions by an incredible fallacy.

The more ignorant you are, the more likely you are to be religious..."

Take it you are religious then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They seemed more like a pair of crack heads than Islamic extemists to me.

I don't think religion itself is to blame i think its more about politics than religion tbh

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Dont forget our whole law system is based on religion 'thou shall not steal' etc the 10 commandments."

If our modern legal system really were still based on the kind of absolute 'morality' one can find in the Old Testament, very few of us, if any, would be here to have this debate.

Thankfully, it's now based far more on secular and humanist rationalisms!

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...


"as Karl Marx said. Religion is the Opium of the masses.

Or, as Steven Weinberg more aptly put it:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.""

Very well put.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"thinking about recent events, is religion to blame or would these people follow any path offered, it does seem that religion is at the route of most of the worlds ills, even going back in the past and christianity isnt blameles

So what's your point?

would these people do these things anyway?

Derek Bird, Harold Shipmen, Roal Moat, Ian Huntley et al did evil things, no mention of religion, so I'll refrain: what's your real point? "

More to the point .

What's your point ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't remember the exact wording, but Einstein said something to the effect of

'If we only do good deeds for the promise of reward, and avoid evil for the fear of punishment, then what a sorry lot the human race must be'

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Dont forget our whole law system is based on religion 'thou shall not steal' etc the 10 commandments.

If our modern legal system really were still based on the kind of absolute 'morality' one can find in the Old Testament, very few of us, if any, would be here to have this debate.

Thankfully, it's now based far more on secular and humanist rationalisms! "

But there is no denying the very principles of law is based on religion. Yes its adapted and changed but at its very core, it still is based on religion. I think the topics quite interesting. I also think it is human nature to have religion. Without it, we would look at other things like magic, luck, fate or witchcraft etc there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it. "

Yet.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"thinking about recent events, is religion to blame or would these people follow any path offered, it does seem that religion is at the route of most of the worlds ills, even going back in the past and christianity isnt blameles

So what's your point?

would these people do these things anyway?

Derek Bird, Harold Shipmen, Roal Moat, Ian Huntley et al did evil things, no mention of religion, so I'll refrain: what's your real point?

More to the point .

What's your point ?"

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch


"as Karl Marx said. Religion is the Opium of the masses.

Or, as Steven Weinberg more aptly put it:

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.""

sadly the above holds a great deal of truth

there is zero good that comes from any religion that could not come without x

Based on the very nature of all the fairy tails followers are indeed deluded x

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By *ald6974Man
over a year ago

Manchester

Isnt FAB like a PUB...?? where you shouldnt discuss "race, religion or politics" ?? The WORLDs FULL of cranks, I was speaking with Asian (Pakistani) friends on Thursday afternoon who are frightened to death about the possible repercussion of an alleged fanatical "Muslims" actions...the last thing the country needs is "race/religion" riots. If M15 knew about them....then why wasnt something done about it....?? Out of curiosity what religion or race was Harold shipman or the wests....hindly and Brady??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet."

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain "

Such as?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Religion is to blame. It makes ppl act without thinking or justifying their actions by an incredible fallacy.

The more ignorant you are, the more likely you are to be religious..."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Out of curiosity what religion or race was Harold shipman or the wests....hindly and Brady?? "

Were their acts religiously motivated?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?"

Faith

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bear in mind that everybody on Fabs would be condemned to eternal suffering in hell according to the texts of the religionists!

A wise man once said "It must be some fun being so ****ing dumb!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They seemed more like a pair of crack heads than Islamic extemists to me.

I don't think religion itself is to blame i think its more about politics than religion tbh"

Really? Have you ever met one?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain"


"Faith"

Faith is the reason mainstream religion is as dangerous as religious fanaticism. It teaches people to be complacent with or even supportive of ignorance, and is more destructive to society as a whole than any suicide bomber could ever hope to be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Bear in mind that everybody on Fabs would be condemned to eternal suffering in hell according to the texts of the religionists!

A wise man once said "It must be some fun being so ****ing dumb!""

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Out of curiosity what religion or race was Harold shipman or the wests....hindly and Brady??

"

Who cares if they were or weren't, they were certainly indoctrinated from birth in their parents and peers religion with the approval of the state.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Isnt FAB like a PUB...?? where you shouldnt discuss "race, religion or politics" ?? The WORLDs FULL of cranks, I was speaking with Asian (Pakistani) friends on Thursday afternoon who are frightened to death about the possible repercussion of an alleged fanatical "Muslims" actions...the last thing the country needs is "race/religion" riots. If M15 knew about them....then why wasnt something done about it....?? Out of curiosity what religion or race was Harold shipman or the wests....hindly and Brady?? "

Perversion has nothing to do with religion

Did any of these people shout "God is great " when carrying out their acts ?

I don't need religion to tell me their acts were wrong

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?"

Well take there is a famous granary story. A village worker was storing some food under the granary when suddenly it broke, collapsed on him and injured him. Now science can explain why the granary broke. Because termites had got to the wood. By why did the granary break at that exact time, when that particular individual was standing directly under it. other people had walked under it all day but why that exact moment on that individual when he was there. The village used witchcraft to explain it. Someone had put black magic on that particular individual to get hurt. That explains why granary collapsed (which science can also) and explains why it fell on that individual, broke his bones, why he was under there that exact time etc. Science cant explain these.

Now thats a really basic example. But my point is, as humans, we always need to explain things and if science cant, we use other things. Why did jo blogs win lottery? Science cant explain how he chose the correct numbers, on correct date and how numbers came up. So we say it was down to luck. Another explanation when science cant tell us.

That was long post lol

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow


"Religion deffo not to blame. In fact it keeps people on the right path in most cases. Dont forget our whole law system is based on religion 'thou shall not steal' etc the 10 commandments. It really does keep most on track. Its just a few crazy people who do crazy stuff then use religion as an excuse "

I could be wrong hahaha,but I'm pretty sure there was law,prior to Christianity,and islam.

the crusades,millions dead under the banner of religion,in fact over the centuries,there have been many holy wars.

There have been many peoples persecuted,due to their religious

beliefs.

Many instances of genocide have been committed,under the banner of religion.

so it's hardly just a few crazy people,doing bad things.

Whether your religious,or not,that's your choice,but to come on here,and claim it's responsible for creating law,and minimising to a few crazy people,the millions of deaths,and the amount of suffering religion has caused over the centuries,is just plain wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?

Well take there is a famous granary story. A village worker was storing some food under the granary when suddenly it broke, collapsed on him and injured him. Now science can explain why the granary broke. Because termites had got to the wood. By why did the granary break at that exact time, when that particular individual was standing directly under it. other people had walked under it all day but why that exact moment on that individual when he was there. The village used witchcraft to explain it. Someone had put black magic on that particular individual to get hurt. That explains why granary collapsed (which science can also) and explains why it fell on that individual, broke his bones, why he was under there that exact time etc. Science cant explain these.

Now thats a really basic example. But my point is, as humans, we always need to explain things and if science cant, we use other things. Why did jo blogs win lottery? Science cant explain how he chose the correct numbers, on correct date and how numbers came up. So we say it was down to luck. Another explanation when science cant tell us.

That was long post lol "

Science can't explain the coincidence that a village worker who stored his food under a rotting granary was the person who the granary fell on?

Perhaps it was because that worker was the person most often in the building because he stored his food there? Many other explanations for such a not so amazing coincidence spring to mind before I personally would have to leap to the conclusion that it was due to a supernatural occurence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Religion deffo not to blame. In fact it keeps people on the right path in most cases. Dont forget our whole law system is based on religion 'thou shall not steal' etc the 10 commandments. It really does keep most on track. Its just a few crazy people who do crazy stuff then use religion as an excuse

I could be wrong hahaha,but I'm pretty sure there was law,prior to Christianity,and islam.

the crusades,millions dead under the banner of religion,in fact over the centuries,there have been many holy wars.

There have been many peoples persecuted,due to their religious

beliefs.

Many instances of genocide have been committed,under the banner of religion.

so it's hardly just a few crazy people,doing bad things.

Whether your religious,or not,that's your choice,but to come on here,and claim it's responsible for creating law,and minimising to a few crazy people,the millions of deaths,and the amount of suffering religion has caused over the centuries,is just plain wrong."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/05/13 17:16:19]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ultimately, I believe in the human race. First & foremost, we are all human.

I believe that we all have the right to believe what we want as far as religion & faith are concerned and that no one has the right to disrespect anyone's beliefs or views.

They can question it, they can discuss & theorize over it. But no one has the right to say "you're wrong & I'm right"

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"Religion deffo not to blame. In fact it keeps people on the right path in most cases. Dont forget our whole law system is based on religion 'thou shall not steal' etc the 10 commandments. It really does keep most on track. Its just a few crazy people who do crazy stuff then use religion as an excuse "

Yup ... I've lost count of the oxen I covetted before I found religion.

Come to think of it .... You lot are sinners.

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

People will blame religion when its not their own religion

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"Dont forget our whole law system is based on religion 'thou shall not steal' etc the 10 commandments.

If our modern legal system really were still based on the kind of absolute 'morality' one can find in the Old Testament, very few of us, if any, would be here to have this debate.

Thankfully, it's now based far more on secular and humanist rationalisms!

But there is no denying the very principles of law is based on religion. Yes its adapted and changed but at its very core, it still is based on religion. I think the topics quite interesting. I also think it is human nature to have religion. Without it, we would look at other things like magic, luck, fate or witchcraft etc there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it. "

Sorry Ash ... you need to learn what human nature is first.

Apart from a very misused cliche that is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" Epicurus

Until a religion can refute this logical statement with it's own logical argument (2000+ years and still waiting) there seems little point listening to any of their "logic".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?

Well take there is a famous granary story. A village worker was storing some food under the granary when suddenly it broke, collapsed on him and injured him. Now science can explain why the granary broke. Because termites had got to the wood. By why did the granary break at that exact time, when that particular individual was standing directly under it. other people had walked under it all day but why that exact moment on that individual when he was there. The village used witchcraft to explain it. Someone had put black magic on that particular individual to get hurt. That explains why granary collapsed (which science can also) and explains why it fell on that individual, broke his bones, why he was under there that exact time etc. Science cant explain these.

Now thats a really basic example. But my point is, as humans, we always need to explain things and if science cant, we use other things. Why did jo blogs win lottery? Science cant explain how he chose the correct numbers, on correct date and how numbers came up. So we say it was down to luck. Another explanation when science cant tell us.

That was long post lol

Science can't explain the coincidence that a village worker who stored his food under a rotting granary was the person who the granary fell on?

Perhaps it was because that worker was the person most often in the building because he stored his food there? Many other explanations for such a not so amazing coincidence spring to mind before I personally would have to leap to the conclusion that it was due to a supernatural occurence."

Exactly. You use coincidence to explain it. My whole point. If science cant, as humans we use other techniques to help us make sense of the event. Whether it be coincidence, luck, religion or whatever. I am nit saying they were correct in saying it was witchcraft, but example shows how we use techniques to explain where science cant. Thats why things like religion will never go

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Religion is not to blame but man's hunger for power, wealth and land is

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People have done terrible things for their so called religion, however theres probably alot of people who have not commit murder or any other awful crimes due to the fact in their religion it is a sin. So its all swings and roundabouts lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Dont forget our whole law system is based on religion 'thou shall not steal' etc the 10 commandments.

If our modern legal system really were still based on the kind of absolute 'morality' one can find in the Old Testament, very few of us, if any, would be here to have this debate.

Thankfully, it's now based far more on secular and humanist rationalisms!

But there is no denying the very principles of law is based on religion. Yes its adapted and changed but at its very core, it still is based on religion. I think the topics quite interesting. I also think it is human nature to have religion. Without it, we would look at other things like magic, luck, fate or witchcraft etc there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Sorry Ash ... you need to learn what human nature is first.

Apart from a very misused cliche that is."

Ok human nature was wrong term. But I think there is something in humans which needs to explain the unexplainable and religion is one

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By *ezebelWoman
over a year ago

North of The Wall - youll need your vest

Sorry but Ive removed posts. Please can we keep it to a civilised discussion?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ultimately, I believe in the human race. First & foremost, we are all human.

I believe that we all have the right to believe what we want as far as religion & faith are concerned and that no one has the right to disrespect anyone's beliefs or views.

They can question it, they can discuss & theorize over it. But no one has the right to say "you're wrong & I'm right""

I think you maybe doing that

" no one has the right to say "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sorry but Ive removed posts. Please can we keep it to a civilised discussion?"

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?

Well take there is a famous granary story. A village worker was storing some food under the granary when suddenly it broke, collapsed on him and injured him. Now science can explain why the granary broke. Because termites had got to the wood. By why did the granary break at that exact time, when that particular individual was standing directly under it. other people had walked under it all day but why that exact moment on that individual when he was there. The village used witchcraft to explain it. Someone had put black magic on that particular individual to get hurt. That explains why granary collapsed (which science can also) and explains why it fell on that individual, broke his bones, why he was under there that exact time etc. Science cant explain these.

Now thats a really basic example. But my point is, as humans, we always need to explain things and if science cant, we use other things. Why did jo blogs win lottery? Science cant explain how he chose the correct numbers, on correct date and how numbers came up. So we say it was down to luck. Another explanation when science cant tell us.

That was long post lol "

Children eat their parents you know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?

Well take there is a famous granary story. A village worker was storing some food under the granary when suddenly it broke, collapsed on him and injured him. Now science can explain why the granary broke. Because termites had got to the wood. By why did the granary break at that exact time, when that particular individual was standing directly under it. other people had walked under it all day but why that exact moment on that individual when he was there. The village used witchcraft to explain it. Someone had put black magic on that particular individual to get hurt. That explains why granary collapsed (which science can also) and explains why it fell on that individual, broke his bones, why he was under there that exact time etc. Science cant explain these.

Now thats a really basic example. But my point is, as humans, we always need to explain things and if science cant, we use other things. Why did jo blogs win lottery? Science cant explain how he chose the correct numbers, on correct date and how numbers came up. So we say it was down to luck. Another explanation when science cant tell us.

That was long post lol

Children eat their parents you know."

Granny what are you talking about lol?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

It's true Ash.

I've never seen it but I know it's true.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's true Ash.

I've never seen it but I know it's true."

Er...ok

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Faith

Faith is the reason mainstream religion is as dangerous as religious fanaticism. It teaches people to be complacent with or even supportive of ignorance, and is more destructive to society as a whole than any suicide bomber could ever hope to be. "

I respect your right to an opinion ….

But having lived and worked in many countries around the world and witnessed at first hand the positive impact faith has on normal-everday people who follow a diversification of religious beliefs,,,

I won’t be persuaded by your argument…

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"It's true Ash.

I've never seen it but I know it's true.

Er...ok "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Exactly. You use coincidence to explain it. My whole point. If science cant, as humans we use other techniques to help us make sense of the event. Whether it be coincidence, luck, religion or whatever. I am nit saying they were correct in saying it was witchcraft, but example shows how we use techniques to explain where science cant. Thats why things like religion will never go "

But my point is that by using coincidence to explain a coincidence nobody who thinks I'm right is left open to manipulation by others who claim to be able to protect them from coincidences.

If you allow witchcraft or any other invisible supernatural entity to be accepted as the reason then you open the door to self serving and controlling specimens of humanity using the fear of this supernatural being to control the masses.

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland


"No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Faith

Faith is the reason mainstream religion is as dangerous as religious fanaticism. It teaches people to be complacent with or even supportive of ignorance, and is more destructive to society as a whole than any suicide bomber could ever hope to be.

I respect your right to an opinion ….

But having lived and worked in many countries around the world and witnessed at first hand the positive impact faith has on normal-everday people who follow a diversification of religious beliefs,,,

I won’t be persuaded by your argument… "

It matters not what I personally choose to believe, what does matter though is the fact that having a faith helps some people to cope with their lives. Other are inspired by their faith to do good, help others and become humanists - surely that has to be a good thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"People have done terrible things for their so called religion, however theres probably alot of people who have not commit murder or any other awful crimes due to the fact in their religion it is a sin. So its all swings and roundabouts lol"

Most major religions admonish crimes like murder, but their condemnation of it is usually claused so as to only apply to people who share the same faith, or observe / practice it strictly (correctly) enough.

After reciting the ten commandments (including "thou shalt not kill") to his people, Moses invokes them to draw their swords and slay their brothers and sons who had previously been living in ignorance of them.

Muhammad gives similar instructions to his people, then makes it clear that to kill an infidel is not a sin, but the surest path to paradise (a similar logic to that professed by the Papacy during the Crusades).

You get the idea. It's a common theme. Most people who murder in the name of religion do so because of a loophole in theirs that they perceive as allowing, even encouraging it. And to refer to Einstein's wisdom quoted earlier, if 'many' people have stopped themselves from committing murder simply (only) because their religion(s) supposedly tells them not to do it, then we're in serious trouble as a society / species!

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?

Well take there is a famous granary story. A village worker was storing some food under the granary when suddenly it broke, collapsed on him and injured him. Now science can explain why the granary broke. Because termites had got to the wood. By why did the granary break at that exact time, when that particular individual was standing directly under it. other people had walked under it all day but why that exact moment on that individual when he was there. The village used witchcraft to explain it. Someone had put black magic on that particular individual to get hurt. That explains why granary collapsed (which science can also) and explains why it fell on that individual, broke his bones, why he was under there that exact time etc. Science cant explain these.

Now thats a really basic example. But my point is, as humans, we always need to explain things and if science cant, we use other things. Why did jo blogs win lottery? Science cant explain how he chose the correct numbers, on correct date and how numbers came up. So we say it was down to luck. Another explanation when science cant tell us.

That was long post lol "

That was a very long post with absolutely no point to it x

There are a number of scientific , engineering and statistical explanations that explain your scenario x

Next thing you will be suggesting is that science cant explain clouds that look like faces or animals and that a superior power is the only possible cause x

I on the scale of what we know about our planet , and universe the petty ogre concept some call god is actually an inelegant fudge that always produces paradox and more questions than it answers , even it's super powers pale in inspiring wonder and awe compared to reality

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Exactly. You use coincidence to explain it. My whole point. If science cant, as humans we use other techniques to help us make sense of the event. Whether it be coincidence, luck, religion or whatever. I am nit saying they were correct in saying it was witchcraft, but example shows how we use techniques to explain where science cant. Thats why things like religion will never go

But my point is that by using coincidence to explain a coincidence nobody who thinks I'm right is left open to manipulation by others who claim to be able to protect them from coincidences.

If you allow witchcraft or any other invisible supernatural entity to be accepted as the reason then you open the door to self serving and controlling specimens of humanity using the fear of this supernatural being to control the masses."

Yep totally get your point. And you are correct. I was just trying to say why as humans we have things like religion. Because they do explain things for us that need explaining. But I agree with you that this can be manipulated or used not for the good. But you will never get rid of religion, notion of luck, fate etc because we need them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"People have done terrible things for their so called religion, however theres probably alot of people who have not commit murder or any other awful crimes due to the fact in their religion it is a sin. So its all swings and roundabouts lol

Most major religions admonish crimes like murder, but their condemnation of it is usually claused so as to only apply to people who share the same faith, or observe / practice it strictly (correctly) enough.

After reciting the ten commandments (including "thou shalt not kill") to his people, Moses invokes them to draw their swords and slay their brothers and sons who had previously been living in ignorance of them.

Muhammad gives similar instructions to his people, then makes it clear that to kill an infidel is not a sin, but the surest path to paradise (a similar logic to that professed by the Papacy during the Crusades).

You get the idea. It's a common theme. Most people who murder in the name of religion do so because of a loophole in theirs that they perceive as allowing, even encouraging it. And to refer to Einstein's wisdom quoted earlier, if 'many' people have stopped themselves from committing murder simply (only) because their religion(s) supposedly tells them not to do it, then we're in serious trouble as a society / species!"

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

'we' don't.

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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

Stalin was responsible for some of the worse atrocities and more deaths than Hitler. No religion involved.

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland


"'we' don't."

Too many generalisations and assumptions for my liking in this thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?

Well take there is a famous granary story. A village worker was storing some food under the granary when suddenly it broke, collapsed on him and injured him. Now science can explain why the granary broke. Because termites had got to the wood. By why did the granary break at that exact time, when that particular individual was standing directly under it. other people had walked under it all day but why that exact moment on that individual when he was there. The village used witchcraft to explain it. Someone had put black magic on that particular individual to get hurt. That explains why granary collapsed (which science can also) and explains why it fell on that individual, broke his bones, why he was under there that exact time etc. Science cant explain these.

Now thats a really basic example. But my point is, as humans, we always need to explain things and if science cant, we use other things. Why did jo blogs win lottery? Science cant explain how he chose the correct numbers, on correct date and how numbers came up. So we say it was down to luck. Another explanation when science cant tell us.

That was long post lol

That was a very long post with absolutely no point to it x

There are a number of scientific , engineering and statistical explanations that explain your scenario x

Next thing you will be suggesting is that science cant explain clouds that look like faces or animals and that a superior power is the only possible cause x

I on the scale of what we know about our planet , and universe the petty ogre concept some call god is actually an inelegant fudge that always produces paradox and more questions than it answers , even it's super powers pale in inspiring wonder and awe compared to reality "

Science cant explain it. So your saying that theoretically. When jo blogs was born on 1.04.1990 science can say what happens to him every second of his life? We worked out that a granary will fall on you 10 years from now. It cant. Luck comes into it, fate comes into it too many other factors come into play. You can not predict it. Other things are used to explain it

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?

Well take there is a famous granary story. A village worker was storing some food under the granary when suddenly it broke, collapsed on him and injured him. Now science can explain why the granary broke. Because termites had got to the wood. By why did the granary break at that exact time, when that particular individual was standing directly under it. other people had walked under it all day but why that exact moment on that individual when he was there. The village used witchcraft to explain it. Someone had put black magic on that particular individual to get hurt. That explains why granary collapsed (which science can also) and explains why it fell on that individual, broke his bones, why he was under there that exact time etc. Science cant explain these.

Now thats a really basic example. But my point is, as humans, we always need to explain things and if science cant, we use other things. Why did jo blogs win lottery? Science cant explain how he chose the correct numbers, on correct date and how numbers came up. So we say it was down to luck. Another explanation when science cant tell us.

That was long post lol

That was a very long post with absolutely no point to it x

There are a number of scientific , engineering and statistical explanations that explain your scenario x

Next thing you will be suggesting is that science cant explain clouds that look like faces or animals and that a superior power is the only possible cause x

I on the scale of what we know about our planet , and universe the petty ogre concept some call god is actually an inelegant fudge that always produces paradox and more questions than it answers , even it's super powers pale in inspiring wonder and awe compared to reality

Science cant explain it. So your saying that theoretically. When jo blogs was born on 1.04.1990 science can say what happens to him every second of his life? We worked out that a granary will fall on you 10 years from now. It cant. Luck comes into it, fate comes into it too many other factors come into play. You can not predict it. Other things are used to explain it "

Ash ...... it was ALL very predictable.

Doesn't take a scientist.

The termites are eating the wood.

The man works at the granary.

It's not fate. No such thing as fate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Stalin was responsible for some of the worse atrocities and more deaths than Hitler. No religion involved."

Hitler wasn't particularly religious either but neither of those two cretins actions show religion in a good light. They both created quasi-religious states that enforced their ideals and beliefs through fear, terror and manipulation of the weak.

Much as the Catholic church did for nearly 2 millenia.

As an aside do you not see the irony that the only pre-communist/nazi regime organisations that survived were the religious ones?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Stalin was responsible for some of the worse atrocities and more deaths than Hitler. No religion involved."

No power was !

Who said religion was

Responsible for all deaths ?

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?

Well take there is a famous granary story. A village worker was storing some food under the granary when suddenly it broke, collapsed on him and injured him. Now science can explain why the granary broke. Because termites had got to the wood. By why did the granary break at that exact time, when that particular individual was standing directly under it. other people had walked under it all day but why that exact moment on that individual when he was there. The village used witchcraft to explain it. Someone had put black magic on that particular individual to get hurt. That explains why granary collapsed (which science can also) and explains why it fell on that individual, broke his bones, why he was under there that exact time etc. Science cant explain these.

Now thats a really basic example. But my point is, as humans, we always need to explain things and if science cant, we use other things. Why did jo blogs win lottery? Science cant explain how he chose the correct numbers, on correct date and how numbers came up. So we say it was down to luck. Another explanation when science cant tell us.

That was long post lol

That was a very long post with absolutely no point to it x

There are a number of scientific , engineering and statistical explanations that explain your scenario x

Next thing you will be suggesting is that science cant explain clouds that look like faces or animals and that a superior power is the only possible cause x

I on the scale of what we know about our planet , and universe the petty ogre concept some call god is actually an inelegant fudge that always produces paradox and more questions than it answers , even it's super powers pale in inspiring wonder and awe compared to reality

Science cant explain it. So your saying that theoretically. When jo blogs was born on 1.04.1990 science can say what happens to him every second of his life? We worked out that a granary will fall on you 10 years from now. It cant. Luck comes into it, fate comes into it too many other factors come into play. You can not predict it. Other things are used to explain it "

I must have missed the part I suggested we were predicting anything .

Explaining was the criteria and that is rather simple x

Ironically by using the daft concept of fate you actually are suggesting events may be predetermined and thus absolute and predictable from birth . I would not be in agreement with you x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?

Well take there is a famous granary story. A village worker was storing some food under the granary when suddenly it broke, collapsed on him and injured him. Now science can explain why the granary broke. Because termites had got to the wood. By why did the granary break at that exact time, when that particular individual was standing directly under it. other people had walked under it all day but why that exact moment on that individual when he was there. The village used witchcraft to explain it. Someone had put black magic on that particular individual to get hurt. That explains why granary collapsed (which science can also) and explains why it fell on that individual, broke his bones, why he was under there that exact time etc. Science cant explain these.

Now thats a really basic example. But my point is, as humans, we always need to explain things and if science cant, we use other things. Why did jo blogs win lottery? Science cant explain how he chose the correct numbers, on correct date and how numbers came up. So we say it was down to luck. Another explanation when science cant tell us.

That was long post lol

That was a very long post with absolutely no point to it x

There are a number of scientific , engineering and statistical explanations that explain your scenario x

Next thing you will be suggesting is that science cant explain clouds that look like faces or animals and that a superior power is the only possible cause x

I on the scale of what we know about our planet , and universe the petty ogre concept some call god is actually an inelegant fudge that always produces paradox and more questions than it answers , even it's super powers pale in inspiring wonder and awe compared to reality

Science cant explain it. So your saying that theoretically. When jo blogs was born on 1.04.1990 science can say what happens to him every second of his life? We worked out that a granary will fall on you 10 years from now. It cant. Luck comes into it, fate comes into it too many other factors come into play. You can not predict it. Other things are used to explain it

I must have missed the part I suggested we were predicting anything .

Explaining was the criteria and that is rather simple x

Ironically by using the daft concept of fate you actually are suggesting events may be predetermined and thus absolute and predictable from birth . I would not be in agreement with you x

"

Lets agree to disagree lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?

Faith "

Faith, like every human emotion or "feeling" is created by a series of electro-chemical pathways and responses in the brain. Very easily explainable by science.

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

I very rarely agree to disagree esp when right at this moment you have no valid argument on that we could agree

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?

Faith

Faith, like every human emotion or "feeling" is created by a series of electro-chemical pathways and responses in the brain. Very easily explainable by science."

So why doesn't everone have it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I very rarely agree to disagree esp when right at this moment you have no valid argument on that we could agree"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I very rarely agree to disagree esp when right at this moment you have no valid argument on that we could agree"

Ok well dont get your knickers in a twist about it. You are right and I am wrong. Happy?

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

Aw bless ya x pretty much always happy don't wear underwear x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"there is something in us that wants everything explained and science cant do it.

Yet.

No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Such as?

Faith

Faith, like every human emotion or "feeling" is created by a series of electro-chemical pathways and responses in the brain. Very easily explainable by science."

So your saying we are genetically predisposed ahhh…. I see….. funny that,,,,, because I don’t have any faith but I certainly believe it exists having seen at first hand people in physically and emotionally challenged situations where whatever God they believe in appeared to have completely abandoned them, but they still hung onto their faith,,,

Funny old world in’it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Faith

Faith is the reason mainstream religion is as dangerous as religious fanaticism. It teaches people to be complacent with or even supportive of ignorance, and is more destructive to society as a whole than any suicide bomber could ever hope to be.

I respect your right to an opinion ….

But having lived and worked in many countries around the world and witnessed at first hand the positive impact faith has on normal-everday people who follow a diversification of religious beliefs,,,

I won’t be persuaded by

yourargument… "

Ever been to Saudi Arabia

A princess behead for commiting adultery no frenzied attack a cold calculated act in front of a male baying crowd a religious murder

Afganistan women shot in the back of their heads for adultery

Religious murder

I wonder if their face gave them solace ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No yet about it. Some thing science can never explain

Faith

Faith is the reason mainstream religion is as dangerous as religious fanaticism. It teaches people to be complacent with or even supportive of ignorance, and is more destructive to society as a whole than any suicide bomber could ever hope to be.

I respect your right to an opinion ….

But having lived and worked in many countries around the world and witnessed at first hand the positive impact faith has on normal-everday people who follow a diversification of religious beliefs,,,

I won’t be persuaded by

yourargument…

Ever been to Saudi Arabia

A princess behead for commiting adultery no frenzied attack a cold calculated act in front of a male baying crowd a religious murder

Afganistan women shot in the back of their heads for adultery

Religious murder

I wonder if their face gave them solace ?"

Faith

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By * Jay69Man
over a year ago

Bridgwater - Somerset

It's not religion as such - Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia were not religions - They were ideologies.

Ideologies and religions can be used to justify all sorts of nasty behaviour, but blame the particular politicians, priests, imams and generals for inciting others to commit despicable acts in the name of a particular belief system. Blame the individuals who actually commit the acts, yes they've been taken in and possibly brainwashed, some people are lazy, they believe just what they are told - this may be things like don't kill anyone or feed the starving, or kill the infidel.

People must think for themselves.

I should also admit that I regularly attend a church - nicest bunch of people you could wish to meet, and I like a good sing-song! I choose the bits I agree with and which bits I ignore.

There, I'm a hypocrite! Or am a a multi-layered person who thinks for himself?

You choose

or ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

I Am just little sad when find a kind and intelligent person rejects the wonders reality in favour of an unremarkable manipulative judgmental bronze age blood cult grimm style fairytail

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

"

Cultural religious law

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

"

I have no idea why you cannot see the very clear well articulated point x

Due to the powerful meme which religion is , inhumane acts of violence based on bronze age blood cult ideas are both justified and perpetuated. And yes we are right to question and challenge x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

"

Accepted by the women of those countries really ?

However not just the women

Populations that are indoctrinated from birth

Hard core religion rammed down their throat !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

Accepted by the women of those countries really ?

However not just the women

Populations that are indoctrinated from birth

Hard core religion rammed down their throat !

"
With a real threat of physical violence if they refuse to accept or even question their religious beliefs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

Accepted by the women of those countries really ?

However not just the women

Populations that are indoctrinated from birth

Hard core religion rammed down their throat !

"

they havnt got much choice have they.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a woman I feel very privileged to be able to even have these conversations

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

Accepted by the women of those countries really ?

However not just the women

Populations that are indoctrinated from birth

Hard core religion rammed down their throat !

they havnt got much choice have they. "

Just roll over and give up ?

Most countries have to fight for freedom of some sort , but no lets turn the other cheek and carry on murdering people on the name of religion ! As long as its not me!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

Cultural religious law

"

Internally Saudi is a very peaceful country thanks in part to the cultural religious belief accepted by the majority of its population…….

It would seem a tad churlish to suggest they should abandon that in favour of a regime of lesser order based on nothing more than an equally un-provable but contradictory philosophy which decrys the positive aspects of religion and faith as dangerous bunkum

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As a woman I feel very privileged to be able to even have these conversations "

As long as you know your place lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As a woman I feel very privileged to be able to even have these conversations

As long as you know your place lol"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

Cultural religious law

Internally Saudi is a very peaceful country thanks in part to the cultural religious belief accepted by the majority of its population…….

It would seem a tad churlish to suggest they should abandon that in favour of a regime of lesser order based on nothing more than an equally un-provable but contradictory philosophy which decrys the positive aspects of religion and faith as dangerous bunkum "

I don't live there nor want to .

what you are saying is if the population are happy to live with religious murder it's ok

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The whole premise of religion (of whatever denomination) is the worship of a superior being that has all seeing power and was responsible for creation (nearly all the major creeds think this) The next step is that once you sign up to a god then its the life after death promise which keeps people entrapped. If the soul is immortal then we should believe in life before life too?

In the end its about power control and money. If God does exist then she would be a bit pissed of with her finest creation that allows a society to permit 7 trillion dollars of wealth to be hidden in bank vaults and tax havens when we have the highest rate of world wide poverty since Victoria was on the throne. God? she is a bit of a girl!

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

Cultural religious law

Internally Saudi is a very peaceful country thanks in part to the cultural religious belief accepted by the majority of its population…….

It would seem a tad churlish to suggest they should abandon that in favour of a regime of lesser order based on nothing more than an equally un-provable but contradictory philosophy which decrys the positive aspects of religion and faith as dangerous bunkum "

No disrespect but there is no justification for oppression , how many T girls did you see ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

Cultural religious law

Internally Saudi is a very peaceful country thanks in part to the cultural religious belief accepted by the majority of its population…….

It would seem a tad churlish to suggest they should abandon that in favour of a regime of lesser order based on nothing more than an equally un-provable but contradictory philosophy which decrys the positive aspects of religion and faith as dangerous bunkum

I don't live there nor want to .

what you are saying is if the population are happy to live with religious murder it's ok "

You've chose to use the term religious murder.....but that's not how it's perceived under Saudi law...

But thank-you for trying to interpret for me,,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Believe in a 2000 year old fairy story, or believe in a 1500 year old fairy story. or believe in the tooth fairy. Not much difference.

Or as Karl Marx said. Religion is the Opium of the masses."

Karl Marx lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Religion is to blame. It makes ppl act without thinking or justifying their actions by an incredible fallacy.

The more ignorant you are, the more likely you are to be religious..."

Select few I'm afraid , need to stop reading the sun .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" No disrespect but there is no justification for oppression , how many T girls did you see ?

"

You don't find many Tgirls working in the oilfields....theres no high heels aloud up the drill floor in case they cause sparks....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

Cultural religious law

Internally Saudi is a very peaceful country thanks in part to the cultural religious belief accepted by the majority of its population…….

It would seem a tad churlish to suggest they should abandon that in favour of a regime of lesser order based on nothing more than an equally un-provable but contradictory philosophy which decrys the positive aspects of religion and faith as dangerous bunkum

I don't live there nor want to .

what you are saying is if the population are happy to live with religious murder it's ok

You've chose to use the term religious murder.....but that's not how it's perceived under Saudi law...

But thank-you for trying to interpret for me,,,

"

Because it is carried out under religious law

As a matter of interest how long did you spend in Saudi Arabia

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

You've chose to use the term religious murder.....but that's not how it's perceived under Saudi law...

But thank-you for trying to interpret for me,,,

"

Well as long as it's justified by Saudi law!

That's the law of a country governed by an absolute monarchy complying with Sharia.

A country where if a woman that is raped it is her fault, sounds great!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think you have to put in perspective whereby the majority of followers in any religion don’t go around creating disharmony and conflict. The trouble comes from a minority of fanatical followers who’s extremist behaviour tarnishes the reputation of that religion….!.

Many people simply find their own peace in faith and that can't be a bad thing... "

Well simplified and could agree more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

Cultural religious law

Internally Saudi is a very peaceful country thanks in part to the cultural religious belief accepted by the majority of its population…….

It would seem a tad churlish to suggest they should abandon that in favour of a regime of lesser order based on nothing more than an equally un-provable but contradictory philosophy which decrys the positive aspects of religion and faith as dangerous bunkum

I don't live there nor want to .

what you are saying is if the population are happy to live with religious murder it's ok

You've chose to use the term religious murder.....but that's not how it's perceived under Saudi law...

But thank-you for trying to interpret for me,,,

Because it is carried out under religious law

As a matter of interest how long did you spend in Saudi Arabia"

I've been a few times.... twice I did about 3 months and a number of shorter visits ranging from a couple of days to a couple of weeks..... Why?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

Cultural religious law

Internally Saudi is a very peaceful country thanks in part to the cultural religious belief accepted by the majority of its population…….

It would seem a tad churlish to suggest they should abandon that in favour of a regime of lesser order based on nothing more than an equally un-provable but contradictory philosophy which decrys the positive aspects of religion and faith as dangerous bunkum

I don't live there nor want to .

what you are saying is if the population are happy to live with religious murder it's ok

You've chose to use the term religious murder.....but that's not how it's perceived under Saudi law...

But thank-you for trying to interpret for me,,,

Because it is carried out under religious law

As a matter of interest how long did you spend in Saudi Arabia

I've been a few times.... twice I did about 3 months and a number of shorter visits ranging from a couple of days to a couple of weeks..... Why?"

As I said a matter of interest if you discuss it's good to know a little background, no hidden agenda

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch


"

You've chose to use the term religious murder.....but that's not how it's perceived under Saudi law...

But thank-you for trying to interpret for me,,,

Well as long as it's justified by Saudi law!

That's the law of a country governed by an absolute monarchy complying with Sharia.

A country where if a woman that is raped it is her fault, sounds great!"

Could not agree more with this x

Saudi is no better than a nazi dictatorship x

The foolish statements trying to justify Saudi is no different to justifying nazi doctrine , well the people chose , it's their country ... who are we to say killing Jews was wrong

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

Oh and some Jewish states are no better look at how religion dictates Israels actions , I understand in some silly book somewhere it's says promised to Jews land thus based upon religion millions have been killed over such land .

Would it happen anyway ? Yes of course religion is just a human invented meme perpetuating bronze age human thinking

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

Cultural religious law

Internally Saudi is a very peaceful country thanks in part to the cultural religious belief accepted by the majority of its population…….

It would seem a tad churlish to suggest they should abandon that in favour of a regime of lesser order based on nothing more than an equally un-provable but contradictory philosophy which decrys the positive aspects of religion and faith as dangerous bunkum

I don't live there nor want to .

what you are saying is if the population are happy to live with religious murder it's ok

You've chose to use the term religious murder.....but that's not how it's perceived under Saudi law...

But thank-you for trying to interpret for me,,,

Because it is carried out under religious law

As a matter of interest how long did you spend in Saudi Arabia

I've been a few times.... twice I did about 3 months and a number of shorter visits ranging from a couple of days to a couple of weeks..... Why?

As I said a matter of interest if you discuss it's good to know a little background, no hidden agenda"

No bother,,,,,

Just for the record,,,, I don't have a faith... I wish I did, because that would mean I'd found one that didn't conflict with my concerns about the hypocrisy I find in many of their doctrines,,,and I certainly don't condone oppression or killing, but I respect the right of peacefully achieved self-governance by whatever method is accepted by the majority of a nation.

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

I agree with peaceful , oppression and killing dissidents is not peaceful. Just because the streets may not have crime does not mean the violence does not continue behind closed doors , shudders x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Just for the record,,,, I don't have a faith... I wish I did, because that would mean I'd found one that didn't conflict with my concerns about the hypocrisy I find in many of their doctrines,,,and I certainly don't condone oppression or killing, but I respect the right of peacefully achieved self-governance by whatever method is accepted by the majority of a nation.

"

I respect your right to have no faith.... However, I do question the premis that doctrines have levels of hypocrisy.... It is surely man's misinterpretation of simple doctrine which leads to antagonisms....

God preaches love for all men, no matter which of his prophets one follows....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I agree with peaceful , oppression and killing dissidents is not peaceful. Just because the streets may not have crime does not mean the violence does not continue behind closed doors , shudders x"

I admire your principle and I don't dispute your intention is righteous and valid in that you want to see a fairer world where all people are free to live without fear of persecution.....

I played an active part supporting the Green wave in 2009 and I would gladly do the same again if the situation arises...

But I know the freedom that was sought in Iran did not include abandoning their faith or religion or adopting western values..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes I've been to Saudi,,,,,

But I fail to see the point your making...

As wrong as those atrocities are they are embedded in the cultural law of those countries. It’s so easy to use our own values to decry the right of self-governance in countries that base their moral codes on beliefs accepted by the majority of their own population.

Cultural religious law

Internally Saudi is a very peaceful country thanks in part to the cultural religious belief accepted by the majority of its population…….

It would seem a tad churlish to suggest they should abandon that in favour of a regime of lesser order based on nothing more than an equally un-provable but contradictory philosophy which decrys the positive aspects of religion and faith as dangerous bunkum

I don't live there nor want to .

what you are saying is if the population are happy to live with religious murder it's ok

You've chose to use the term religious murder.....but that's not how it's perceived under Saudi law...

But thank-you for trying to interpret for me,,,

Because it is carried out under religious law

As a matter of interest how long did you spend in Saudi Arabia

I've been a few times.... twice I did about 3 months and a number of shorter visits ranging from a couple of days to a couple of weeks..... Why?

As I said a matter of interest if you discuss it's good to know a little background, no hidden agenda

No bother,,,,,

Just for the record,,,, I don't have a faith... I wish I did, because that would mean I'd found one that didn't conflict with my concerns about the hypocrisy I find in many of their doctrines,,,and I certainly don't condone oppression or killing, but I respect the right of peacefully achieved self-governance by whatever method is accepted by the majority of a nation.

"
sorry but I think that is sitting on the fence watching the world go peacefully by but ignoring the screams of those being butchered

i.e . That poor woman paraded thru the streets to be beheaded infront of a male mob for fucking someone done in the name of religious law

Many other examples all unjustifiable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Just for the record,,,, I don't have a faith... I wish I did, because that would mean I'd found one that didn't conflict with my concerns about the hypocrisy I find in many of their doctrines,,,and I certainly don't condone oppression or killing, but I respect the right of peacefully achieved self-governance by whatever method is accepted by the majority of a nation.

I respect your right to have no faith.... However, I do question the premis that doctrines have levels of hypocrisy.... It is surely man's misinterpretation of simple doctrine which leads to antagonisms....

God preaches love for all men, no matter which of his prophets one follows...."

Great point Euroid,,,,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"sorry but I think that is sitting on the fence watching the world go peacefully by but ignoring the screams of those being butchered

i.e . That poor woman paraded thru the streets to be beheaded infront of a male mob for fucking someone done in the name of religious law

Many other examples all unjustifiable "

Hopefully I've answered that in the post above yours

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"sorry but I think that is sitting on the fence watching the world go peacefully by but ignoring the screams of those being butchered

i.e . That poor woman paraded thru the streets to be beheaded infront of a male mob for fucking someone done in the name of religious law

Many other examples all unjustifiable

Hopefully I've answered that in the post above yours

"
you can have the last words except to say happy shagging to you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Religion as got not to do with this it's the idiots that hide behind it that are to blame and I'm a Christian but a couple of years ago I read the the entire book of Islam twice and at no point did it say to kill others in fact it said the opposite so no it's got nowt to do with religion at all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"a couple of years ago I read the the entire book of Islam twice and at no point did it say to kill others in fact it said the opposite"

Perhaps you should have read it a third time...

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." Quran (2:216)

There are innumerable verses which abjectly command Muslims to make war on and kill infidels and apostates which I might have posted, but this is by far my favourite example, as Allah is basically saying here that, hey, you might not even like killing people, but do it anyway.

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