FabSwingers.com forum: Shooting footage

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The daily mirror have released footage of the moments when the two suspects were shot by armed police.

Pretty shocking viewing to be honest. A seurity forces specialist found it a bit strange that they did not shoot them dead as armed police are trained to shoot to kill ??

I guess my question is how do people feel about media censorship ?? Do we feel that this kind of footage should be shown ? Media censorship is quite a touchy subject i just wondered what peoples views are ??

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

I think it's disgusting to show this. I thought it was disgusting to show images of a dead man in Brussels last year, I thought it was disgusting to show images of a bloodied Saddam Hussain being driven through the streets, I thought it was disgusting showing him being hanged.

We know they got shot. Why do we need to see it? It's just anoyhersymptom of how sick society is today.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the sun had it an was on sky news last nyt

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By *illow PimpMan
over a year ago

Midlothian

Armed units are trained to "stop" not kill. They shoot for the chest to avoid missing a limb and perhaps injuring someone with friendly fire.

The biggest area is the chest.

The fact there not dead is by chance.

Source : sky security expert

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it should be available to view if people want to see it. I dont think it should be splashed all over the dailies where kids could see it though. We have had to put up with days of pics of that poor boy laying dead on the floor....that seems far worse than seeing images of those murderers getting what they deserved. I personally have no interest in seeing it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think showing those two getting shot serves a purpose in that it depicts them as individuals. It should help direct people's hatred to them personally rather than any group, religion, creed or colour

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why would you be trained to shoot to kill? Surely you would only want to "stabilize" them and just take them down, otherwise you cant get any evidence?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I really feel for the officers, that is a horrid situation to be in, they had no choice i believe and probably 99% of armed police have never had to use their weapon.

I do kind of think the footage should be available but also think some sort of measure should be put in place to stop minors etc being able to view it, difficult to enforce though i know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why would you be trained to shoot to kill? Surely you would only want to "stabilize" them and just take them down, otherwise you cant get any evidence?"

Surely if they were shooting to disable then the weapon of choice wouldnt be a fully loaded live gun which is designed to kill people, they have tasers and other weapons that can disable.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

After watching it I am just glad that the police waited for armed police as there could have been more people injured or dead.

I am not 100% sure of what I think about it being shown to be honest, but then looking at it it sends a pretty good message we have on the ball officers ready to take you out if you act this way.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I will not watch the bloke with the knives in his hands and blood all over them..I was not watch the victim laying there dead....If I was the parents I'd go fucking off my rocker watching all the images they have...Just leave it be.. Let the family grieve...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why would you be trained to shoot to kill? Surely you would only want to "stabilize" them and just take them down, otherwise you cant get any evidence?"

Pretty obvious really - it's the only way to ensure someone waving a gun or other weapon doesn't inflict death or injury on anyone else after being 'wounded' - particularly important in the case of firearms!

I've no interest in seeing the footage - but no doubt many will watch it - a high percentage for entirely the wrong reasons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I will not watch the bloke with the knives in his hands and blood all over them..I was not watch the victim laying there dead....If I was the parents I'd go fucking off my rocker watching all the images they have...Just leave it be.. Let the family grieve..."

Well said

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"After watching it I am just glad that the police waited for armed police as there could have been more people injured or dead.

I am not 100% sure of what I think about it being shown to be honest, but then looking at it it sends a pretty good message we have on the ball officers ready to take you out if you act this way. "

Have to agree with this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not sure how I feel about it being broadcast. I don't have kids so I wouldn't think about protecting them from such images.

However I am glad there is so much video footage of the armed police response.

I hope this means the cps will quickly clear the officers involved and not drag it out for them.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Why would you be trained to shoot to kill? Surely you would only want to "stabilize" them and just take them down, otherwise you cant get any evidence?"

when trained personnel resort to the use of lethal means, the line has been crossed where the potential exists to kill someone..

not sure on the Met's policy but military is to 'double tap', fire 2 rounds to the chest area..

worst scenario, wound someone then they kill a colleague or yourself..

yes we have cs and taser etc but in that situation armed response was what the 2 murdering scumbags were waiting for..

think the 2 guys wanted to be martyr's as they knew armed response would be on route..

other countries use things like 'bean bags' fired from adapted shotguns and even nets to stabilise or control people..

glad they are alive and will rot for the rest of their lives in a cell tbh..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

oops just seen Obi's post..

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By *ogistical NightmaresCouple
over a year ago

Manchester Area

The shoot to kill by the police is discouraged due to all the bleeding heart liberals screaming excessive use of force. The use of the "double-tap" is also discouraged for the same reason. I was told that by an ex-police firearms trainer.

Also regarding the double-tap, the military are under strict rules of engagement, which differ to armed law enforcement personnel

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s a tough call and one I’m sure lots of people will struggle with…..

I simply don’t know how I feel about it….

Although I have to confess that even with mixed emotions my instinct was to watch it....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i didnt find it shocking, have seen a lot worse. i do get upset easily but they have been showing things like that on the news for a very long time.

i think its better that everyone knows exactly whats happening in this world.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He got so close to the car with those knives

Being shot is exactly what they wanted. However I don't think they banked on surviving, they wanted to die martyrs, I think thats why they had the gun, they didnt know how to use it. It blew his hand up, I hope it was no longer on the end of his arm when he woke up.

This happened about 5-10 minutes from me. I havnt taken flowers up yet but I will tomorrow. Words cannot describe how disgusted, upset and frightened, and more, I feel. Utterly heartbreaking, my friend saw the whole thing, she's distraught

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why would you be trained to shoot to kill? Surely you would only want to "stabilize" them and just take them down, otherwise you cant get any evidence?"

You're trained to shoot at the largest area to minimise the risk of a miss and injuring an innocent bystander. Sadly the largest mass area of the body us the chest/torso area which obviously carries a high risk of killing the target. Shooting to wound is a myth and also carries the risk of the target still being able to kill or injure somone else.

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By *nnejohnCouple
over a year ago

warrington

did you watch these?

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By *xpresMan
over a year ago

Elland

"Armed units are trained to "stop" not kill. They shoot for the chest to avoid missing a limb and perhaps injuring someone with friendly fire.

The biggest area is the chest.

The fact there not dead is by chance.

Source : sky security expert "

Nope it is "shoot to kill" the whole point of armed police is a last resort so the dont shoot to stop because a stopped man can still pull a trigger or detornate a device...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well noone was forced to watch it as you had to click to open it.

Bad things happen in this world and maybe if people see it gives a better understanding and stops ignorance.

How long can people bury their heads and pretend these things don't happen

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I understand how beneficial it can be to see images and footage of what we did, from an evidence point of view.

I also understand why the assailants weren't shot dead, which is down to the skill of the armed officer. This was a terrorist attack, there are bound to be others with knowledge, a wider network of dangerous individuals. If the murderers were killed they can't talk can they? They seemed pretty vocal at the crime scene so hopefully when fit enough to be interviewed they will inadvertently pass information on to our intelligence services.

But I cannot help feeling for the family and their increased trauma in seeing images of their husband, son, father lying dead in the middle of a busy London street, butchered in the most brutal way, of seeing the perpetrators with his blood all over their hands, the weapons used to kill him, bragging

about his death, and I wonder how they will recover from that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The images of the victim could be a lot worse.. But you can't see his face or injuries and it is just a body lying there

There are a lot of videos and pics of accidents and killings that show a body in the distance

I think what would be disrespectful is if horrible close up pics were released.. There is no need for that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why would you be trained to shoot to kill? Surely you would only want to "stabilize" them and just take them down, otherwise you cant get any evidence?"

And now we, the British taxpayer, have to pay for these individuals to have surgery, be guarded from those trying to kill for retaliation and then a lengthy trial and prison.

Yet the soldier who they slain isn't even entitled to a state funeral.

Why not shoot to kill?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why would you be trained to shoot to kill? Surely you would only want to "stabilize" them and just take them down, otherwise you cant get any evidence?

And now we, the British taxpayer, have to pay for these individuals to have surgery, be guarded from those trying to kill for retaliation and then a lengthy trial and prison.

Yet the soldier who they slain isn't even entitled to a state funeral.

Why not shoot to kill?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think people are being a bit naive on this forum..did I watch the footage?NO,should the media show it?YES

Society in general are obsessed with violence you only have to look at the games and film these days as an example

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The images of the victim could be a lot worse.. But you can't see his face or injuries and it is just a body lying there

There are a lot of videos and pics of accidents and killings that show a body in the distance

I think what would be disrespectful is if horrible close up pics were released.. There is no need for that"

Oh right ok, if it was your som or daughter then, it would be alright by you then to see video footage of them lying on the street, even in the distance, and to see the perpetrator with your Childs blood all over his hands and the machete that was used all across the front page of The Sun, as long as the face wasn't shown it's ok.

Seriously I find this post really daft

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am sick to death of ' eye witness ' and all that malarky

Blood money - clear and simple

May he rest in peace along with the all the others that have been killed in recent weeks by extremists of all ' sects'

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

Sadly, such scenes of the aftermath of violence are shown every day and we don't bat an eyelid, yet now we expect the media to be respectful?!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why would you be trained to shoot to kill? Surely you would only want to "stabilize" them and just take them down, otherwise you cant get any evidence?

And now we, the British taxpayer, have to pay for these individuals to have surgery, be guarded from those trying to kill for retaliation and then a lengthy

trial and prison.

Yet the soldier who they slain isn't even

entitled to a state funeral.

Why not shoot to kill?"

Because information is required, not just for this crime, but about the reason why this crime was committed. Do they belong to an organisation, is their anyone else involved, where do they go to worship, what are the names of others who hold the same extreme views, could there be anything else planned etc etc.

It's easier to have an experienced anti terrorism officer interview, or would you rather they hold a seance to see if they can find anything out that way?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The images of the victim could be a lot worse.. But you can't see his face or injuries and it is just a body lying there

There are a lot of videos and pics of accidents and killings that show a body in the distance

I think what would be disrespectful is if horrible close up pics were released.. There is no need for that

Seriously I find this post really daft"

No its not daft to me, nobody would like to see it if it was their son but a lot of people need to see things so they will take more notice of what is actualy happening in this country instead of burying their heads in the sand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"He got so close to the car with those knives

The images now in the papers of the woman on the ground cradling the soldier trying to prevent the terrorist attacking his body further.

And the other brave woman having a go at the terrorist are incredibly moving.

Moved me to tears!

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"I am sick to death of ' eye witness ' and all that malarky

Blood money - clear and simple

May he rest in peace along with the all the others that have been killed in recent weeks by extremists of all ' sects' "

The mother and daughter who sat with Lee so he didn't die alone and by all accounts shielded his body from further mutilation have been dignified in their silence.

Lord knows what they witnessed and how it will affect them. Compare that to the other eye witnesses with tenuous links to the poor lad giving interviews.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"I am sick to death of ' eye witness ' and all that malarky

Blood money - clear and simple

May he rest in peace along with the all the others that have been killed in recent weeks by extremists of all ' sects'

The mother and daughter who sat with Lee so he didn't die alone and by all accounts shielded his body from further mutilation have been dignified in their silence.

Lord knows what they witnessed and how it will affect them. Compare that to the other eye witnesses with tenuous links to the poor lad giving interviews."

I cried at this..In fact for someone that did not know Lee it have affected me...I cannot get my head around the killing..There is a picture of the 20 year old girl sitting by Lee's body with her arm around him...Now that is pure courage on her part and I have no idea the state of the body nor what sights she saw but to do that she was a corageous young woman...

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