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Furious

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Ex soldier and recent events! Enough said

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By *ce WingerMan
over a year ago

P.O. Box DE1 0NQ

Commiserations to his loved ones, a sad day indeed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What makes me most furious is not the actions of the attackers but the reaction of the british public it wouldn't of taken many to group together to take the men down instead they and let them have orders thrown at them?.

It's not the fear of ever being attacked that's the most frightening for me its the fear if I ever was attacked then no one would try and help I would be left to fend for myself.

There was a report the other day on the news if you have a heart attack in public your more likely to die if your on the London tube because no one would be willing to step in and try and help you.

Londoners don't want the hassle of having there day inconvianced because of it WTF?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What makes me most furious is not the actions of the attackers but the reaction of the british public it wouldn't of taken many to group together to take the men down instead they and let them have orders thrown at them?.

It's not the fear of ever being attacked that's the most frightening for me its the fear if I ever was attacked then no one would try and help I would be left to fend for myself.

There was a report the other day on the news if you have a heart attack in public your more likely to die if your on the London tube because no one would be willing to step in and try and help you.

Londoners don't want the hassle of having there day inconvianced because of it WTF?

"
sorry I would not expect anyone to way in, these tosser were armed up to the eyeballs in guns and knives, I would like to know why it took 20 mins for the police to arrive

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What makes me most furious is not the actions of the attackers but the reaction of the british public it wouldn't of taken many to group together to take the men down instead they and let them have orders thrown at them?.

It's not the fear of ever being attacked that's the most frightening for me its the fear if I ever was attacked then no one would try and help I would be left to fend for myself.

There was a report the other day on the news if you have a heart attack in public your more likely to die if your on the London tube because no one would be willing to step in and try and help you.

Londoners don't want the hassle of having there day inconvianced because of it WTF?

sorry I would not expect anyone to way in, these tosser were armed up to the eyeballs in guns and knives, I would like to know why it took 20 mins for the police to arrive "

I was wondering how long it would take the 9 o'clock jury to ask that question ! They would have got there as fast as they can, across traffic in London whilst preparing for an armed confrontation....for goodness sake !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We're are the armed when you need them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What makes me most furious is not the actions of the attackers but the reaction of the british public it wouldn't of taken many to group together to take the men down instead they and let them have orders thrown at them?.

It's not the fear of ever being attacked that's the most frightening for me its the fear if I ever was attacked then no one would try and help I would be left to fend for myself.

There was a report the other day on the news if you have a heart attack in public your more likely to die if your on the London tube because no one would be willing to step in and try and help you.

Londoners don't want the hassle of having there day inconvianced because of it WTF?

sorry I would not expect anyone to way in, these tosser were armed up to the eyeballs in guns and knives, I would like to know why it took 20 mins for the police to arrive

I was wondering how long it would take the 9 o'clock jury to ask that question ! They would have got there as fast as they can, across traffic in London whilst preparing for an armed confrontation....for goodness sake ! "
so they had to travel from the other side of London, so there are no police stations in Woolwich ? And I always under the impression armed police are armed all the time or is that not true either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They were outside a barracks for fuck sack why didn't they come out and help?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its a life that was taken and did nt need to be taken fucking religion has an awful lot to answer for

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By *uxtapositionMan
over a year ago

CARDIFF

Surely there was an ARV closer than 20 minutes away ? Even in London 20 mins is a long time ? I obviously have no information other than anyone else here is privy to, but time 20 mins on your watch and see just how long it is

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What makes me most furious is not the actions of the attackers but the reaction of the british public it wouldn't of taken many to group together to take the men down instead they and let them have orders thrown at them?.

It's not the fear of ever being attacked that's the most frightening for me its the fear if I ever was attacked then no one would try and help I would be left to fend for myself.

There was a report the other day on the news if you have a heart attack in public your more likely to die if your on the London tube because no one would be willing to step in and try and help you.

Londoners don't want the hassle of having there day inconvianced because of it WTF?

sorry I would not expect anyone to way in, these tosser were armed up to the eyeballs in guns and knives, I would like to know why it took 20 mins for the police to arrive "

Becausr theres not a police station in Woolwich thanks to police cuts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Surely there was an ARV closer than 20 minutes away ? Even in London 20 mins is a long time ? I obviously have no information other than anyone else here is privy to, but time 20 mins on your watch and see just how long it is"
erm 2i0 mins

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By *uxtapositionMan
over a year ago

CARDIFF


"They were outside a barracks for fuck sack why didn't they come out and help? "

Who would have realised he was a) a soldier and b) have thought of going to the barracks gate.

Then you have the time delay of explaining the incident and the details being passed up the chain to battalion HQ as the guard would NOT have come tumbling into the street SA80's rammed with live mags of 5.56 ball on the word of a probably panicky member of the public.

Nice idea, would never have worked and not been any quicker than the Police

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Closes the door on the way out....however before i go...stop shifting the blame from the 2 men onto the police and bi standers...as for the Londoners comment i am from there and spend every bloody day helping people the same as others would....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is rather sad how these guys and many others are extremely brainwashed and hold views like these. I saw in the video of the incident one of guys saying "our women have to see similar" or something. What country would this be?I presume he means Afghanistan which has nothing to do with him

When Black Muslims are massacred and pushed to the bottom of the social ladder in Arab countries - no Arab rallies the black mans cause and they never have done. . This isn't a problem with Islamic beliefs, its a problem with the people brainwashed into these ideas

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By *uxtapositionMan
over a year ago

CARDIFF


"Closes the door on the way out....however before i go...stop shifting the blame from the 2 men onto the police and bi standers...as for the Londoners comment i am from there and spend every bloody day helping people the same as others would.... "

I agree, 20 mins is a long delay, but whatever, the police are not to chastised here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just seen the interview from the lady. Who got off the bus to see if she could help. Human nature took over for her. She went to that soldiers help. While others stood by filming on their phones. Unfortunately she was forced away. Such sad times in this country.

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By *atelotmanMan
over a year ago

Chatham

I lived 200yards from the spot so in reply to why didn't the army turn out,the main gate is nowhere near the spot so wont of known what was going on. The police station is nearer and Arv are local as well due to HMP Belmarsh being just mins from the spot.

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By *uxtapositionMan
over a year ago

CARDIFF


"Surely there was an ARV closer than 20 minutes away ? Even in London 20 mins is a long time ? I obviously have no information other than anyone else here is privy to, but time 20 mins on your watch and see just how long it is erm 2i0 mins "

You miss the point

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By *ce WingerMan
over a year ago

P.O. Box DE1 0NQ


"We're are the armed when you need them "

Try looking up sympathy

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By *eryBigGirlWoman
over a year ago

East Yorkshire


"Surely there was an ARV closer than 20 minutes away ? Even in London 20 mins is a long time ? I obviously have no information other than anyone else here is privy to, but time 20 mins on your watch and see just how long it is"

According to reports the armed police were on the scene within 6 mins. I'm sure the killers didnt hang around for 20 mins waiting for them!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yet again another of our brave armed forces loses their life to the scum of the earth.

My thoughts go his family and friends, the men in his unit.

I really can not say what I want, as no doubt it will be deemed too offensive. I feel sorry for the good honest people of the Arab states who deplore these actions as much as us from the West.

To those I know serving still, god speed my friends, I pray you all return safe from whatever hell hole we have sent you to.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"Surely there was an ARV closer than 20 minutes away ? Even in London 20 mins is a long time ? I obviously have no information other than anyone else here is privy to, but time 20 mins on your watch and see just how long it is

According to reports the armed police were on the scene within 6 mins. I'm sure the killers didnt hang around for 20 mins waiting for them!!!!"

I think police spent the other time arresting them i am sure they did not jump out the car and say right lets shoot them they have procedures which have been reinforced since the Rockwell shooting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Surely there was an ARV closer than 20 minutes away ? Even in London 20 mins is a long time ? I obviously have no information other than anyone else here is privy to, but time 20 mins on your watch and see just how long it is"

This is one of the questions that have to be answered. Most London boroughs do have at least one ARV on patrol at all times. Woolwich is not in the middle of nowhere, so why - even on 'blues+twos' did it take the 20 minutes for the first ARV to arrive? We will not know until after the COBRA meeting and after the enquiries have been made by the relevant authorities.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are pictures of a solitary woman intervening yet plenty more were happy to film it on their phones. That is fucked up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also the British Army can not take arms on UK streets without a formal order from HM Goverment - in effect, a Queens Order.

I am sure the boys in Blue when they have them in full custody will ensure their Armed forces brothers will be avenged.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"Surely there was an ARV closer than 20 minutes away ? Even in London 20 mins is a long time ? I obviously have no information other than anyone else here is privy to, but time 20 mins on your watch and see just how long it is

According to reports the armed police were on the scene within 6 mins. I'm sure the killers didnt hang around for 20 mins waiting for them!!!!

I think police spent the other time arresting them i am sure they did not jump out the car and say right lets shoot them they have procedures which have been reinforced since the Rockwell shooting"
:

Stockwell

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"We're are the armed when you need them

Try looking up sympathy "

It was meant to say chavs that sounds very bad without in it.

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By *he tunnelsCouple
over a year ago

newport

See how quick the police would have responded if it was a Football related incedent

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yet again another of our brave armed forces loses their life to the scum of the earth.

My thoughts go his family and friends, the men in his unit.

I really can not say what I want, as no doubt it will be deemed too offensive. I feel sorry for the good honest people of the Arab states who deplore these actions as much as us from the West.

To those I know serving still, god speed my friends, I pray you all return safe from whatever hell hole we have sent you to."

Spot on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Its a life that was taken and did nt need to be taken fucking religion has an awful lot to answer for "

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman
over a year ago

Glenrothes


"Yet again another of our brave armed forces loses their life to the scum of the earth.

My thoughts go his family and friends, the men in his unit.

I really can not say what I want, as no doubt it will be deemed too offensive. I feel sorry for the good honest people of the Arab states who deplore these actions as much as us from the West.

To those I know serving still, god speed my friends, I pray you all return safe from whatever hell hole we have sent you to."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"There are pictures of a solitary woman intervening yet plenty more were happy to film it on their phones. That is fucked up."

These are the same images I have seen that disturb me the most

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

Ok - whoa!!!!!

The police responded as soon as humanly possible but under the circumstances they were right to wait for ARMED OFFICERS!!!!!

As soon as the police arrived these 2 tries to attack them and were shot. Simple as that.

Would you want more officers dead and injured???? I know I wouldn't

I used to live a mike away from where it happened and my friend lives in the flats next to the scene - the police could see exactly what was going on as there are numerous CCTV cameras there. They could see theses 2 were not on the rampage. They CORRECTLY assessed the situation.

If you think they did it wrong, I dare you to go stare down 2 crazed idiots with knives and a gun when all you've got is a baton!!!

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk


"Yet again another of our brave armed forces loses their life to the scum of the earth.

My thoughts go his family and friends, the men in his unit.

I really can not say what I want, as no doubt it will be deemed too offensive. I feel sorry for the good honest people of the Arab states who deplore these actions as much as us from the West.

To those I know serving still, god speed my friends, I pray you all return safe from whatever hell hole we have sent you to.

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just seen the interview from the lady. Who got off the bus to see if she could help. Human nature took over for her. She went to that soldiers help. While others stood by filming on their phones. Unfortunately she was forced away. Such sad times in this country. "

Says a lot about todays society. I can understand some being too scared to interveen to some extent as they were probably in shock at what was happening in front of their eyes but to take our your mobile phone and film such an incident is sick an unforgiveable!! Good on that brave woman for standing up to those animals and going to help that poor young soldier. May he rest in peace

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"See how quick the police would have responded if it was a Football related incedent "

Let's think about this for a minute - police get messages to say that an incident is happening and two men are armed with knives and possibly a gun. The nearest available police unit is sent to assess the situation. That unit will be unarmed and wearing anti-stab vests. They have pepper spray and spring type batons. On arrival they see a male on the ground, possibly dead and two men armed as said. What do those police officers do? Charge in and risk being shot or stabbed thus exacerbating an already serious situation? Or simply keep any bystanders away who may possibly become the next vicitim and send reports via radio and update their command team on the 'live' situation? Should one or more of the police officers have gone towards the assailants and possibly become another statistic police officer murdered on the streets?

In my view,with my military background, the safest way to deal with the situation is have the situation under control, contain the area, wait for back up and stay alive - after all you are no good to your loved ones if you are dead.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I saw the police cars that were on their way to stop the car that mark duggan was in 2 years ago. Believe me London traffic does not slow them down.

But is 20 minutes really that long? The police were heading into a busy suburban area, Id rather they were slightly hesitant than have another stockwell. Plus hindsight is a wonderful thing, the attackers not fleeing the scene is unusual, the police would have been getting lots of conflicting information and in the immediate aftermath most likely assumed the incident gang related.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

people film everything these days, with their mobile phones and stuff, its normal to them, its been happening for a long time and i am surprised people are shocked by it.

also what person in their right mind would intervene when their were two nut cases with knives as they would get attacked as well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In my view anyone seen showing these to anyone but the police should be treated as supporters of terrorism. And the publishers of them should be charged as well. I know I will get slated but find it extremely disturbing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They were outside a barracks for fuck sack why didn't they come out and help? "
help in what way for 1 armed forces have no jurisdiction on the streets, 2 they also are not armed their weapon are under lock and key in armoury, 3 you will prob find even tho they show them on guard with weapons that they are not loaded

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My sons in London doing his training just now.

They've increased security in all the London barracks....but I still feel sick to my stomach over the whole attack, and can't help but wonder whats next?

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By *uckoldandWifeCouple
over a year ago

Manchester

As has been said, one brave women did approach one of the killers and talk to him. She was lucky not to have been shot or cleavered to death. If she had have been killed its not hard to imagine the forum being full of messages about her "stupidity" and how selfish she was to leave her kids without a mother etc. The same would have been said of any police officers who didn't follow procedures. While it's horrible that society now turns to the video camera in their pockets for every incident the one benefit of that is there will be plenty of material to convict the killers with.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Closes the door on the way out....however before i go...stop shifting the blame from the 2 men onto the police and bi standers...as for the Londoners comment i am from there and spend every bloody day helping people the same as others would.... "

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk


"They were outside a barracks for fuck sack why didn't they come out and help? help in what way for 1 armed forces have no jurisdiction on the streets, 2 they also are not armed their weapon are under lock and key in armoury, 3 you will prob find even tho they show them on guard with weapons that they are not loaded"

The guys on the gate of the royal artillery barracks ARE armed at all times. They have handguns and rifles - they were ordered to lock the barracks down and keep everyone safe. They are not allowed to go roaming the streets with guns - they were confined to barracks while woolwich was burning during the riots - much to their disgust.

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk


"As has been said, one brave women did approach one of the killers and talk to him. She was lucky not to have been shot or cleavered to death. If she had have been killed its not hard to imagine the forum being full of messages about her "stupidity" and how selfish she was to leave her kids without a mother etc. The same would have been said of any police officers who didn't follow procedures. While it's horrible that society now turns to the video camera in their pockets for every incident the one benefit of that is there will be plenty of material to convict the killers with."

Very true - we have the perfect confessions that no one can argue with

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As has been said, one brave women did approach one of the killers and talk to him. She was lucky not to have been shot or cleavered to death. If she had have been killed its not hard to imagine the forum being full of messages about her "stupidity" and how selfish she was to leave her kids without a mother etc. The same would have been said of any police officers who didn't follow procedures. While it's horrible that society now turns to the video camera in their pockets for every incident the one benefit of that is there will be plenty of material to convict the killers with."

One women yes but if all those people filming put down their phones and surrounded the men what could they possibly do?

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk


"As has been said, one brave women did approach one of the killers and talk to him. She was lucky not to have been shot or cleavered to death. If she had have been killed its not hard to imagine the forum being full of messages about her "stupidity" and how selfish she was to leave her kids without a mother etc. The same would have been said of any police officers who didn't follow procedures. While it's horrible that society now turns to the video camera in their pockets for every incident the one benefit of that is there will be plenty of material to convict the killers with.

One women yes but if all those people filming put down their phones and surrounded the men what could they possibly do? "

There was nothing anyone could do until those armed officers arrived except try and help the dying man

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I am saddened not shocked by some of the statements made on this thread. We can all say we would of done this or done that but faced with reality i doubt we would do what we think we would do in our mind.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay


"As has been said, one brave women did approach one of the killers and talk to him. She was lucky not to have been shot or cleavered to death. If she had have been killed its not hard to imagine the forum being full of messages about her "stupidity" and how selfish she was to leave her kids without a mother etc. The same would have been said of any police officers who didn't follow procedures. While it's horrible that society now turns to the video camera in their pockets for every incident the one benefit of that is there will be plenty of material to convict the killers with.

One women yes but if all those people filming put down their phones and surrounded the men what could they possibly do? "

Erm.....chopped them up with their machetes?, or stabbed them with their collection of large knives?, or shot them with the gun one of them was holding?

Any of the above

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk


"As has been said, one brave women did approach one of the killers and talk to him. She was lucky not to have been shot or cleavered to death. If she had have been killed its not hard to imagine the forum being full of messages about her "stupidity" and how selfish she was to leave her kids without a mother etc. The same would have been said of any police officers who didn't follow procedures. While it's horrible that society now turns to the video camera in their pockets for every incident the one benefit of that is there will be plenty of material to convict the killers with.

One women yes but if all those people filming put down their phones and surrounded the men what could they possibly do?

Erm.....chopped them up with their machetes?, or stabbed them with their collection of large knives?, or shot them with the gun one of them was holding?

Any of the above"

Go on then - you go first!!!

What a stupid him to say

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok - whoa!!!!!

The police responded as soon as humanly possible but under the circumstances they were right to wait for ARMED OFFICERS!!!!!

As soon as the police arrived these 2 tries to attack them and were shot. Simple as that.

Would you want more officers dead and injured???? I know I wouldn't

I used to live a mike away from where it happened and my friend lives in the flats next to the scene - the police could see exactly what was going on as there are numerous CCTV cameras there. They could see theses 2 were not on the rampage. They CORRECTLY assessed the situation.

If you think they did it wrong, I dare you to go stare down 2 crazed idiots with knives and a gun when all you've got is a baton!!!

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As has been said, one brave women did approach one of the killers and talk to him. She was lucky not to have been shot or cleavered to death. If she had have been killed its not hard to imagine the forum being full of messages about her "stupidity" and how selfish she was to leave her kids without a mother etc. The same would have been said of any police officers who didn't follow procedures. While it's horrible that society now turns to the video camera in their pockets for every incident the one benefit of that is there will be plenty of material to convict the killers with.

One women yes but if all those people filming put down their phones and surrounded the men what could they possibly do?

There was nothing anyone could do until those armed officers arrived except try and help the dying man "

That poor man was dead in seconds. I just listened to an lbc interview by a man who saw it happen and saw exactly what they did to him. He would've been dead within moments.Even if the police had arrived in half the time, he wouldnt have been saved.

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk


"What makes me most furious is not the actions of the attackers but the reaction of the british public it wouldn't of taken many to group together to take the men down instead they and let them have orders thrown at them?.

It's not the fear of ever being attacked that's the most frightening for me its the fear if I ever was attacked then no one would try and help I would be left to fend for myself.

There was a report the other day on the news if you have a heart attack in public your more likely to die if your on the London tube because no one would be willing to step in and try and help you.

Londoners don't want the hassle of having there day inconvianced because of it WTF?

sorry I would not expect anyone to way in, these tosser were armed up to the eyeballs in guns and knives, I would like to know why it took 20 mins for the police to arrive

Becausr theres not a police station in Woolwich thanks to police cuts"

Ok, there is still a police station in woolwich, it comes under Greenwich division. There are NO ARVs based there. The response time will have included getting to woolwich, stopping, arming and loading weapons, being give a briefing in the situation BEFORE they could go to the scene. No they don't travel with loaded weapons 24/7 as its deemed too dangerous

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As has been said, one brave women did approach one of the killers and talk to him. She was lucky not to have been shot or cleavered to death. If she had have been killed its not hard to imagine the forum being full of messages about her "stupidity" and how selfish she was to leave her kids without a mother etc. The same would have been said of any police officers who didn't follow procedures. While it's horrible that society now turns to the video camera in their pockets for every incident the one benefit of that is there will be plenty of material to convict the killers with.

One women yes but if all those people filming put down their phones and surrounded the men what could they possibly do? "

Really and have 5,6,7,8 more people dead. Just think about it this way if those guys had done a runner after the incident some of the best evidence would have come from that mobile footage (Boston bombing).

As for all the police bashing I find this the most sickening as no matter what they do they are wrong act to fast they are murderous racists .

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk


"As has been said, one brave women did approach one of the killers and talk to him. She was lucky not to have been shot or cleavered to death. If she had have been killed its not hard to imagine the forum being full of messages about her "stupidity" and how selfish she was to leave her kids without a mother etc. The same would have been said of any police officers who didn't follow procedures. While it's horrible that society now turns to the video camera in their pockets for every incident the one benefit of that is there will be plenty of material to convict the killers with.

One women yes but if all those people filming put down their phones and surrounded the men what could they possibly do?

Really and have 5,6,7,8 more people dead. Just think about it this way if those guys had done a runner after the incident some of the best evidence would have come from that mobile footage (Boston bombing).

As for all the police bashing I find this the most sickening as no matter what they do they are wrong act to fast they are murderous racists ."

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By *eorHerCouple
over a year ago

edinburgh

Why in this country whenever something terrible happen we look for someone to blame ..... No one is to blame for this mans horrific death apart from the two animals that murdered him no one in their right mind would have confronted those rabied dogs .... But as always let's blame the police for not being on hand 5 minutes before it happened .......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They were outside a barracks for fuck sack why didn't they come out and help? help in what way for 1 armed forces have no jurisdiction on the streets, 2 they also are not armed their weapon are under lock and key in armoury, 3 you will prob find even tho they show them on guard with weapons that they are not loaded

The guys on the gate of the royal artillery barracks ARE armed at all times. They have handguns and rifles - they were ordered to lock the barracks down and keep everyone safe. They are not allowed to go roaming the streets with guns - they were confined to barracks while woolwich was burning during the riots - much to their disgust. "
yes we can see they were armed but are they Loaded, back in the day's they were not thats all i'm saying

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So let's start with the basic premise that we are a bunch of psychotic apes living on a dirtball in the ass end of the universe.

We appear to be stuck with odd ritualistic leftovers from the time before we grasped the fact that the moon was a big rock in the sky and we moved on from there.

These religions/cults claim to be moral guides showing people how to be good and to be nice to each other by anyone analysing their texts written by fuck knows who well over a millennia ago.

These "spiritual" texts contain some of the most backward attitudes towards pretty much anyone that isn't a straight male, yet they are not only tolerated, we allow our children to be indoctrinated in them from birth.

Many will quote only the "good" bits to show how their holy book is a good moral guide yet refuse to ever consider deleting the "bad" parts as it would be "blasphemous" to alter the second hand words of their deity which have been passed on to the world through an human intermediary who heard voices in his head, or at least claimed to have.

Now editing out the bizarre, bigoted, crap out may seem like as obvious a solution as taking lead out of paint or asbestos out of buildings before it hurts our children but oh no, too easy and this leads to the hard of thinking being manipulated into commiting atrocities by the "wise" sages and soothsayers who claim to know the true meaning of their deity's jumbled messages.

Just mentioning this would mean certain death in countries ruled by the wonderful guidance of these self serving idiots or in more tolerant and enlightened countries being branded a racist subversive.

So we find ourselves in the odd situation where the masses still appear, by consensus, to need to be told how to be good people in the eyes of their "allocated from birth" deity, yet when they go astray it is not the fault of said religion despite the fact that these poor souls were manipulated into acting in such a manner by deliberatley misinterpreted holy texts or even worse simply reading parts of the texts as they are written.

If you continue to allow your religious texts to contain passages excusing murder, racism, sexism and hatred for those not of your faith then you must ALL start to take responsiblity for allowing this to continue, whether you are a religious leader or the least devout of your faith.

Big kisses, Grumpy x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So let's start with the basic premise that we are a bunch of psychotic apes living on a dirtball in the ass end of the universe.

We appear to be stuck with odd ritualistic leftovers from the time before we grasped the fact that the moon was a big rock in the sky and we moved on from there.

These religions/cults claim to be moral guides showing people how to be good and to be nice to each other by anyone analysing their texts written by fuck knows who well over a millennia ago.

These "spiritual" texts contain some of the most backward attitudes towards pretty much anyone that isn't a straight male, yet they are not only tolerated, we allow our children to be indoctrinated in them from birth.

Many will quote only the "good" bits to show how their holy book is a good moral guide yet refuse to ever consider deleting the "bad" parts as it would be "blasphemous" to alter the second hand words of their deity which have been passed on to the world through an human intermediary who heard voices in his head, or at least claimed to have.

Now editing out the bizarre, bigoted, crap out may seem like as obvious a solution as taking lead out of paint or asbestos out of buildings before it hurts our children but oh no, too easy and this leads to the hard of thinking being manipulated into commiting atrocities by the "wise" sages and soothsayers who claim to know the true meaning of their deity's jumbled messages.

Just mentioning this would mean certain death in countries ruled by the wonderful guidance of these self serving idiots or in more tolerant and enlightened countries being branded a racist subversive.

So we find ourselves in the odd situation where the masses still appear, by consensus, to need to be told how to be good people in the eyes of their "allocated from birth" deity, yet when they go astray it is not the fault of said religion despite the fact that these poor souls were manipulated into acting in such a manner by deliberatley misinterpreted holy texts or even worse simply reading parts of the texts as they are written.

If you continue to allow your religious texts to contain passages excusing murder, racism, sexism and hatred for those not of your faith then you must ALL start to take responsiblity for allowing this to continue, whether you are a religious leader or the least devout of your faith.

Big kisses, Grumpy x"

Well said

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As has been said, one brave women did approach one of the killers and talk to him. She was lucky not to have been shot or cleavered to death. If she had have been killed its not hard to imagine the forum being full of messages about her "stupidity" and how selfish she was to leave her kids without a mother etc. The same would have been said of any police officers who didn't follow procedures. While it's horrible that society now turns to the video camera in their pockets for every incident the one benefit of that is there will be plenty of material to convict the killers with.

One women yes but if all those people filming put down their phones and surrounded the men what could they possibly do?

Really and have 5,6,7,8 more people dead. Just think about it this way if those guys had done a runner after the incident some of the best evidence would have come from that mobile footage (Boston bombing).

As for all the police bashing I find this the most sickening as no matter what they do they are wrong act to fast they are murderous racists ."

If a group of people rushed him he may of had a chance for one or two swings and even they may not have made contact Then he would of been disarmed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What has happened is truly horrific.

And based by the reports in the paper and on the news this WAS about religion.

But it was the viewpoints of two complete fuckwits that live in tge scummy pool of a larger minority of fuckwits.

Im atheist. Not because I believe there is no god..I dont WANT to believe there is one based on all the vile acts of humanity I see and hear/read about on a GLOBAL scale.

Its not right what happened buts its also not right to wide brush blanket paste an entire nation/creed of people.

I think a thought needs to be spared for this chaps family and even the chap himself..his life has gone..done.

Put yourself in his parents shoes that your son has been hacked to death with a machete....

You cant possibly put yourself in there shoes because im guessing its never happened to anyone and I sincerely hope it never does.

This lads family are going to have to live with this publicly for goodness knows how long now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As has been said, one brave women did approach one of the killers and talk to him. She was lucky not to have been shot or cleavered to death. If she had have been killed its not hard to imagine the forum being full of messages about her "stupidity" and how selfish she was to leave her kids without a mother etc. The same would have been said of any police officers who didn't follow procedures. While it's horrible that society now turns to the video camera in their pockets for every incident the one benefit of that is there will be plenty of material to convict the killers with.

One women yes but if all those people filming put down their phones and surrounded the men what could they possibly do?

Really and have 5,6,7,8 more people dead. Just think about it this way if those guys had done a runner after the incident some of the best evidence would have come from that mobile footage (Boston bombing).

As for all the police bashing I find this the most sickening as no matter what they do they are wrong act to fast they are murderous racists .

If a group of people rushed him he may of had a chance for one or two swings and even they may not have made contact Then he would of been disarmed"

And his mates oh and the alleged hand gun ?

Oh and who goes first sorry but that's just plain stupid

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And just to show my unthinking side, why did nobody just run them over repeatedly with a vehicle?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As I look ahead, I am filled with foreboding. Like the Roman, I seem to see "the River Tiber foaming with much blood".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"As has been said, one brave women did approach one of the killers and talk to him. She was lucky not to have been shot or cleavered to death. If she had have been killed its not hard to imagine the forum being full of messages about her "stupidity" and how selfish she was to leave her kids without a mother etc. The same would have been said of any police officers who didn't follow procedures. While it's horrible that society now turns to the video camera in their pockets for every incident the one benefit of that is there will be plenty of material to convict the killers with.

One women yes but if all those people filming put down their phones and surrounded the men what could they possibly do?

Really and have 5,6,7,8 more people dead. Just think about it this way if those guys had done a runner after the incident some of the best evidence would have come from that mobile footage (Boston bombing).

As for all the police bashing I find this the most sickening as no matter what they do they are wrong act to fast they are murderous racists .

If a group of people rushed him he may of had a chance for one or two swings and even they may not have made contact Then he would of been disarmed"

Who in their right mind would 'rush' a man with a gun

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Who in their right mind would 'rush' a man with a gun"

An unarmed police officer sat in their big heavy vehicle waiting for firearms officers maybe?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

If a group of people rushed him he may of had a chance for one or two swings and even they may not have made contact Then he would of been disarmed"

Its hard to gauge what your gonna do.

Ive intervened in some pretty serious fights before ..but would I intervene some nutjob with a machete?

I might be a coward..but I think that would be just dumb.

I think common sense would take over.

Ben

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By *ndykayMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

Well obviously I am in the wrong today so I'm back off to Scotland forum.

If the intelligent ones want to read my thread called re-furious hen be my guest but hurry as its been closed for some reason.

I always knew there was a reason for not coming in to the lounge and now that's confirmed it

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Well obviously I am in the wrong today so I'm back off to Scotland forum.

If the intelligent ones want to read my thread called re-furious hen be my guest but hurry as its been closed for some reason.

I always knew there was a reason for not coming in to the lounge and now that's confirmed it "

Don't go, you might be a lone voice in the wilderness but as Garrison Keillor wrote "one never has to look far to see the camp fires of the gentle people".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

If a group of people rushed him he may of had a chance for one or two swings and even they may not have made contact Then he would of been disarmed

Its hard to gauge what your gonna do.

Ive intervened in some pretty serious fights before ..but would I intervene some nutjob with a machete?

I might be a coward..but I think that would be just dumb.

I think common sense would take over.

Ben"

I myself have been in similar situations we got home one even and heard a women screaming in the woods next to us. Everyone was just walking by ignoring it. Me and my mate didn't have any second thoughts ran straight to try and help whilst mrs called the police. Ww didnt know what we were going to be confronted with. Police were there within a minute had the place locked down situation defused.

Yes common sense kicks in adrenaline kicks in one thing I would never think of doing is standing there filming it. Or watching it Wether I was thretand or not.

I would try and help someone in trouble anyway I could and If i didn't think I could I would get back up. I would like to think anyone else would do the same which is why it has disturbed me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Every time I think about it I just want to cry. That poor man, defenceless and no doubt terrified; I can't even begin to imagine what he was going through in his last moments.

It's so easy to sit at a computer and argue the points stated in this thread re the police/public etc. There are procedures in place for the police, and unless you were there, nobody can truly say they would have confronted the murderers without a thought for their own safety.

A young man is dead, brutally murdered by two savages, who claim to have done this in the name of religion. They are to blame, not the police or the public.

Sadness and sympathy for him and his family.

Anger and outrage for his spineless murderers.

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By *ucsparkMan
over a year ago

dudley

For the ones asking where the police where, cut backs by government.

For the one asking where army where, unlawful to bear arms on English soil without permission of government.

If they had shot they would be guilty of unlawful wounding or murder.

I was told along time ago don't point the finger of blame, best to mourn your dead and then stand tall and proud to honour them with your actions.

Terrorist want you to change your life, best way to beat them is for decent people to stand shoulder to shoulder no matter creed, colour or religion.

Pray not for the dead for they are at peace, but pray for those left behind that carry on the fight.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Right here goes first and foremost

Run them over you can still be shot driving a vehicle unless a local had a mastiff at hand, rule of minimum force once the initial attack had finished and the area sealed no I immediate threat to another life driver would be jailed for murder.

Armed men guns and knives no matter if you have back up you or others would end up either seriously hurt or dead. Making the situation harder for the professionals.

As for the filming as somebody who has carried a warrant card we tell people to film or take a photo if safe to do so as it can help catch a criminal if they leave the area and be the piece of evidence that ensures that they go to jail.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Right here goes first and foremost

Run them over you can still be shot driving a vehicle unless a local had a mastiff at hand, rule of minimum force once the initial attack had finished and the area sealed no I immediate threat to another life driver would be jailed for murder.

Armed men guns and knives no matter if you have back up you or others would end up either seriously hurt or dead. Making the situation harder for the professionals.

As for the filming as somebody who has carried a warrant card we tell people to film or take a photo if safe to do so as it can help catch a criminal if they leave the area and be the piece of evidence that ensures that they go to jail.

"

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"So let's start with the basic premise that we are a bunch of psychotic apes living on a dirtball in the ass end of the universe.

We appear to be stuck with odd ritualistic leftovers from the time before we grasped the fact that the moon was a big rock in the sky and we moved on from there.

These religions/cults claim to be moral guides showing people how to be good and to be nice to each other by anyone analysing their texts written by fuck knows who well over a millennia ago.

These "spiritual" texts contain some of the most backward attitudes towards pretty much anyone that isn't a straight male, yet they are not only tolerated, we allow our children to be indoctrinated in them from birth.

Many will quote only the "good" bits to show how their holy book is a good moral guide yet refuse to ever consider deleting the "bad" parts as it would be "blasphemous" to alter the second hand words of their deity which have been passed on to the world through an human intermediary who heard voices in his head, or at least claimed to have.

Now editing out the bizarre, bigoted, crap out may seem like as obvious a solution as taking lead out of paint or asbestos out of buildings before it hurts our children but oh no, too easy and this leads to the hard of thinking being manipulated into commiting atrocities by the "wise" sages and soothsayers who claim to know the true meaning of their deity's jumbled messages.

Just mentioning this would mean certain death in countries ruled by the wonderful guidance of these self serving idiots or in more tolerant and enlightened countries being branded a racist subversive.

So we find ourselves in the odd situation where the masses still appear, by consensus, to need to be told how to be good people in the eyes of their "allocated from birth" deity, yet when they go astray it is not the fault of said religion despite the fact that these poor souls were manipulated into acting in such a manner by deliberatley misinterpreted holy texts or even worse simply reading parts of the texts as they are written.

If you continue to allow your religious texts to contain passages excusing murder, racism, sexism and hatred for those not of your faith then you must ALL start to take responsiblity for allowing this to continue, whether you are a religious leader or the least devout of your faith.

Big kisses, Grumpy x"

do you think if we can rewrite them all we can also ban smoking too..

btw pretty much agree with what you say..

education by those within said belief structures is key..

trouble is one cant nowadays control information..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"And just to show my unthinking side, why did nobody just run them over repeatedly with a vehicle?"

one of them was brandishing a handgun, if it was a semi auto then he had a mag with 13 rounds..

there were innocent people trying to help who were close to the scene..

not sure you have thought through what you are suggesting tbh..

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I am not sure why everyone else seems to be getting the blame for this.

Two men hacked a young man to death, they are to blame, simple.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

As for the filming as somebody who has carried a warrant card we tell people to film or take a photo if safe to do so as it can help catch a criminal if they leave the area and be the piece of evidence that ensures that they go to jail.

"

Yes agreed but giving it to the press and plastering them over the Internet?

So all religious groups can see it? All that has done has spread the terrorists message wether its agreed or not is buy no means the argument but it had got there message out there. To me this is supporting terrorism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am not sure why everyone else seems to be getting the blame for this.

Two men hacked a young man to death, they are to blame, simple."

But the "why" shouldn't be ignored, whether it be religious fanaticism, mental health problems, indoctrination etc.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"I am not sure why everyone else seems to be getting the blame for this.

Two men hacked a young man to death, they are to blame, simple.

But the "why" shouldn't be ignored, whether it be religious fanaticism, mental health problems, indoctrination etc. "

I was more thinking about the blaming of the police / people standing round watching to be honest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am not sure why everyone else seems to be getting the blame for this.

Two men hacked a young man to death, they are to blame, simple."

i agree but the policemen should of got there much sooner.

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville


"I am not sure why everyone else seems to be getting the blame for this.

Two men hacked a young man to death, they are to blame, simple.

i agree but the policemen should of got there much sooner."
How much sooner would you say was acceptable? Instant Police- just add water?

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"I am not sure why everyone else seems to be getting the blame for this.

Two men hacked a young man to death, they are to blame, simple.

i agree but the policemen should of got there much sooner."

what you think they are super hero's with superhero powers.....they got there when they could safely without putting members of the public at risk while travelling to the scence....

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon


"I am not sure why everyone else seems to be getting the blame for this.

Two men hacked a young man to death, they are to blame, simple.

i agree but the policemen should of got there much sooner.

what you think they are super hero's with superhero powers.....they got there when they could safely without putting members of the public at risk while travelling to the scence...."

*scene

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"I am not sure why everyone else seems to be getting the blame for this.

Two men hacked a young man to death, they are to blame, simple.

i agree but the policemen should of got there much sooner."

There has been conflicting reports of how long it took to get there so I suppose at the moment we don't really know how long it took them to get there.

Either way for me, the men waited for the police to come and they dealt with it straight away.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am not sure why everyone else seems to be getting the blame for this.

Two men hacked a young man to death, they are to blame, simple.

i agree but the policemen should of got there much sooner."

As has already been said reports are between 6-20mins till the suspects had been shot.this would include travel time, briefing,loading, conflict resolution to me that's bloody fast they don't have a bloody TARDIS

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay


"I am not sure why everyone else seems to be getting the blame for this.

Two men hacked a young man to death, they are to blame, simple."

Exactly....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

First of all as sad as it is for this guy, is it not better one dead rather than many dead? This also happened outside a primary school ffs! Who knows what these loonies would of been capable of if they were angered more!

Also why put the blame onto religion? These people are extremists.. It wasn't that long ago a guy used nail bombs in london to kill gay people! He was british and nothing to do with race or religion, or what about the ira.. An extremist group that again had nothing to do with religion!

Most muslims would be upset this has been done in the name of allah!

And its far from just muslims that have extremists.. So do christians for one! Just google it and see the horrific things they do to non christians!

As for the guy saying his woman have to see this daily.. Is he really that stupid? Woman in muslim conutries witness this from their husbands and families, think of honour killings! Its not our troops ffs! If anything the british are a big part of trying to get these poor woman better rights and stop the sexual assualts and killings men do cos woman are just nothing in their eyes!

It seems these guys were trying to get the message across that we are in the wrong.. Well what a fool cos all he has done is make us band together and make us see the horrors of his beliefs and ways and know that nwe would never ever join them!

Oh and going back to extremists.. Let's not forget everyday extremists in this country that attack blacks and gays just for being black or gay.. Its extremists that are so the problem, not religion!

Ps I'm an athiest

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Ok don't start attacking other users for their posts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

do you think if we can rewrite them all we can also ban smoking too..

trouble is one cant nowadays control information..

"

I totally agree that anything that is addictive and harmful to the user and others around them should be banned, tobacco, alcohol, religions, politicians, the list is endless!

Information and knowledge is the key to our freedom and advancement as a species and should never be controlled!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I suggested using your vehicle as a weapon since I had presumed every police officer allowed to drive a vehicle had undergone some sort of basic police driving course that included the same information I was given when being trained in the military; first and foremost was the basic rule that the most powerful weapon available is the one you are sat in (the car) and not the weapon in a holster on your waist.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

do you think if we can rewrite them all we can also ban smoking too..

trouble is one cant nowadays control information..

I totally agree that anything that is addictive and harmful to the user and others around them should be banned, tobacco, alcohol, religions, politicians, the list is endless!

Information and knowledge is the key to our freedom and advancement as a species and should never be controlled!"

i would agree, knowledge is power but the bad information cant ever be controlled be that the nastier desires some have etc..

certainly in our life times we have seen massive technology advances with communication etc..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why are folk slagging off the police bleeding hell they were they as fast as they could.

Yes i know the cunts who did this were armed but what have we come to when folk walk on by or even worse film it. Scum of the earth. I would have tackled them without doubt as having done something when there was armed robbery.

No excuse for what happened and i do not believe this is a religious issue its used by the cunts who did it as warped justification.

Give the cops and security services credit for what is a hard job especially now instead of getting on their backs.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"I suggested using your vehicle as a weapon since I had presumed every police officer allowed to drive a vehicle had undergone some sort of basic police driving course that included the same information I was given when being trained in the military; first and foremost was the basic rule that the most powerful weapon available is the one you are sat in (the car) and not the weapon in a holster on your waist."

did advanced close protection training also in the forces, ours as i recall was either to 'break through' a threat or turn the vehicle to escapse said and to use the vehicle as cover in bailing out if necessary..

most Police officers do a very basic level of training, not all are pursuit trained etc..

to use their vehicle to run down someone who has a hand gun would be pretty stupid given the circumstances..

the officers at the scene would have had current information and would have risk assessed the situation as it developed..

given what went on they did the right thing in containing the incident..

the vicyim sadly was beyond help when they arrived, their role would be to do what they did..

respect to them for that..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok don't start attacking other users for their posts. "

Sorry was that aimed at me? Cos I have no idea who I'm meant to be attacking :/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I suggested using your vehicle as a weapon since I had presumed every police officer allowed to drive a vehicle had undergone some sort of basic police driving course that included the same information I was given when being trained in the military; first and foremost was the basic rule that the most powerful weapon available is the one you are sat in (the car) and not the weapon in a holster on your waist.

did advanced close protection training also in the forces, ours as i recall was either to 'break through' a threat or turn the vehicle to escapse said and to use the vehicle as cover in bailing out if necessary..

most Police officers do a very basic level of training, not all are pursuit trained etc..

to use their vehicle to run down someone who has a hand gun would be pretty stupid given the circumstances..

the officers at the scene would have had current information and would have risk assessed the situation as it developed..

given what went on they did the right thing in containing the incident..

the vicyim sadly was beyond help when they arrived, their role would be to do what they did..

respect to them for that.."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What makes me most furious is not the actions of the attackers but the reaction of the british public it wouldn't of taken many to group together to take the men down instead they and let them have orders thrown at them?.

It's not the fear of ever being attacked that's the most frightening for me its the fear if I ever was attacked then no one would try and help I would be left to fend for myself.

There was a report the other day on the news if you have a heart attack in public your more likely to die if your on the London tube because no one would be willing to step in and try and help you.

Londoners don't want the hassle of having there day inconvianced because of it WTF?

"
you so wrong there mate. Ppl don't do anything for fear of being sued that's why they don't do anything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I suggested using your vehicle as a weapon since I had presumed every police officer allowed to drive a vehicle had undergone some sort of basic police driving course that included the same information I was given when being trained in the military; first and foremost was the basic rule that the most powerful weapon available is the one you are sat in (the car) and not the weapon in a holster on your waist."

Ok I assume this training you got in the military for using your car as a weapon might have been taught as part of anti ambush drills.

In other words you are under attack. Again rule of minimum force has to be applied as well as conflict resolution

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"Ok don't start attacking other users for their posts.

Sorry was that aimed at me? Cos I have no idea who I'm meant to be attacking :/"

Posts are normally removed when a mod posts something like this.....so always take these type of posts as a general reminder.

If your post is still on it doesn't apply to you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The police were there within 9 mins of the first call

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

If a group of people rushed him he may of had a chance for one or two swings and even they may not have made contact Then he would of been disarmed

Its hard to gauge what your gonna do.

Ive intervened in some pretty serious fights before ..but would I intervene some nutjob with a machete?

I might be a coward..but I think that would be just dumb.

I think common sense would take over.

Ben

I myself have been in similar situations we got home one even and heard a women screaming in the woods next to us. Everyone was just walking by ignoring it. Me and my mate didn't have any second thoughts ran straight to try and help whilst mrs called the police. Ww didnt know what we were going to be confronted with. Police were there within a minute had the place locked down situation defused.

Yes common sense kicks in adrenaline kicks in one thing I would never think of doing is standing there filming it. Or watching it Wether I was thretand or not.

I would try and help someone in trouble anyway I could and If i didn't think I could I would get back up. I would like to think anyone else would do the same which is why it has disturbed me."

Well done and well said those filming and posting on internet should be tracked down and dealt with harshly. One thing filming to help police another to deliberately allow to let the world see just for personal gratification sickens me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No one has any idea what it must have been like for someone to be caught up in this appalling attack .. It's difficult to know how any of us might have reacted ... Rip young man xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok don't start attacking other users for their posts.

Sorry was that aimed at me? Cos I have no idea who I'm meant to be attacking :/

Posts are normally removed when a mod posts something like this.....so always take these type of posts as a general reminder.

If your post is still on it doesn't apply to you "

Ah thank you, just had a wee paranoia moment there as mine was the one above

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I suggested using your vehicle as a weapon since I had presumed every police officer allowed to drive a vehicle had undergone some sort of basic police driving course that included the same information I was given when being trained in the military; first and foremost was the basic rule that the most powerful weapon available is the one you are sat in (the car) and not the weapon in a holster on your waist.

Ok I assume this training you got in the military for using your car as a weapon might have been taught as part of anti ambush drills.

In other words you are under attack. Again rule of minimum force has to be applied as well as conflict resolution"

Yes, I was taught that at all cost my duty was to protect those I was responsible for up to and including the loss of my own life in carrying out my duty.

The awkward philosophical question arises from the fact that the Police are responsible for protecting everyone. Leaving two obviously unstable or religious armed men unrestrained for 20 minutes whilst they tell anyone that will listen that us and our kids are next seems a bit risky to say the least.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Patch them both up, stick them in an ambulance and take them down to the barracks. Let them book their place alongside Allah there and then as they explain their actions to that squaddies colleagues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree totally the police responsible for everyone including the criminals too

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo


"Ok don't start attacking other users for their posts.

Sorry was that aimed at me? Cos I have no idea who I'm meant to be attacking :/

Posts are normally removed when a mod posts something like this.....so always take these type of posts as a general reminder.

If your post is still on it doesn't apply to you

Ah thank you, just had a wee paranoia moment there as mine was the one above "

I should have been more clear

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What makes me most furious is not the actions of the attackers but the reaction of the british public it wouldn't of taken many to group together to take the men down instead they and let them have orders thrown at them?.

It's not the fear of ever being attacked that's the most frightening for me its the fear if I ever was attacked then no one would try and help I would be left to fend for myself.

There was a report the other day on the news if you have a heart attack in public your more likely to die if your on the London tube because no one would be willing to step in and try and help you.

Londoners don't want the hassle of having there day inconvianced because of it WTF?

you so wrong there mate. Ppl don't do anything for fear of being sued that's why they don't do anything. "

Sorry slightly off topic but the survival rate through cardiac arrests in London is at the highest its ever been. Mainly due to there being more defibs at stations, people trained to use them and the opportunity for ambulance crews to take patients to a heart attack centre for immediate surgery.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I pity the hospital staff who have to care for these bastards. They must be very strong people. And our taxes which are paying for their care. Seems a bit wrong after what theyve done. This country seems very strange sometimes. I fear what sort of society my children are growing up in. R.i.p brave soldier

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Our taxes are paying to care for the man who murdered April Jones, the people who set fire to their house while six of their children slept upstairs and Rose West.

Our children will grow up with the values that their parents give them, we have to make sure they are strong, moral and honest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What makes me most furious is not the actions of the attackers but the reaction of the british public it wouldn't of taken many to group together to take the men down instead they and let them have orders thrown at them?.

It's not the fear of ever being attacked that's the most frightening for me its the fear if I ever was attacked then no one would try and help I would be left to fend for myself.

There was a report the other day on the news if you have a heart attack in public your more likely to die if your on the London tube because no one would be willing to step in and try and help you.

Londoners don't want the hassle of having there day inconvianced because of it WTF?

you so wrong there mate. Ppl don't do anything for fear of being sued that's why they don't do anything.

Sorry slightly off topic but the survival rate through cardiac arrests in London is at the highest its ever been. Mainly due to there being more defibs at stations, people trained to use them and the opportunity for ambulance crews to take patients to a heart attack centre for immediate surgery.

"

That's all well and good but absolutely pointless if a passenger walks past another that's in trouble without raising an alarm.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I have thought about this most of the day and this is what i have come up with...

We should not blame religion for this horrible attack.. attacks have been going on for centuries the Romans fed Christians to the lions Nazis sentenced Jews to death and so on to present day where we have different religions fighting each other...its not down to the religion its self but down to extremists who are brainwashed trained whatever you want to call it into believing that if they commit such terrible acts will some how have a higher power in their chosen religion.

We have very religious people lead normal lives who do not act in the way that extremists act.. We need to embrace religion as a whole but send a clear message that we will not tolerate behaviour of mis informed and clearly disturbed individuals...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What makes me most furious is not the actions of the attackers but the reaction of the british public it wouldn't of taken many to group together to take the men down instead they and let them have orders thrown at them?.

It's not the fear of ever being attacked that's the most frightening for me its the fear if I ever was attacked then no one would try and help I would be left to fend for myself.

There was a report the other day on the news if you have a heart attack in public your more likely to die if your on the London tube because no one would be willing to step in and try and help you.

Londoners don't want the hassle of having there day inconvianced because of it WTF?

you so wrong there mate. Ppl don't do anything for fear of being sued that's why they don't do anything.

Sorry slightly off topic but the survival rate through cardiac arrests in London is at the highest its ever been. Mainly due to there being more defibs at stations, people trained to use them and the opportunity for ambulance crews to take patients to a heart attack centre for immediate surgery.

That's all well and good but absolutely pointless if a passenger walks past another that's in trouble without raising an alarm."

My point is that its not just London where people will just pass you by when you're in need of help. If anything you're more likely to survive a heart attack here. Not sure what report whoever made the comment was reading but it certainly doesnt resemble the truth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What makes me most furious is not the actions of the attackers but the reaction of the british public it wouldn't of taken many to group together to take the men down instead they and let them have orders thrown at them?.

It's not the fear of ever being attacked that's the most frightening for me its the fear if I ever was attacked then no one would try and help I would be left to fend for myself.

There was a report the other day on the news if you have a heart attack in public your more likely to die if your on the London tube because no one would be willing to step in and try and help you.

Londoners don't want the hassle of having there day inconvianced because of it WTF?

you so wrong there mate. Ppl don't do anything for fear of being sued that's why they don't do anything.

Sorry slightly off topic but the survival rate through cardiac arrests in London is at the highest its ever been. Mainly due to there being more defibs at stations, people trained to use them and the opportunity for ambulance crews to take patients to a heart attack centre for immediate surgery.

That's all well and good but absolutely pointless if a passenger walks past another that's in trouble without raising an alarm.

My point is that its not just London where people will just pass you by when you're in need of help. If anything you're more likely to survive a heart attack here. Not sure what report whoever made the comment was reading but it certainly doesnt resemble the truth.

"

Off topic totally, but a cardiac arrest is not a heart attack.

The survival rate for anyone suffering a cardiac arrest anywhere other than a hospital is very low. This is nationwide, is nothing to do with people ignoring other people's plight and everything to do with a lack of defibrilators in public places and most people not knowing CPR. Suffer a cardiac arrest in America where everyone is taught CPR at school and all public buildings have defibrilators and you are 4 or 5 times more likely to survive.

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By *uxtapositionMan
over a year ago

CARDIFF


"So let's start with the basic premise that we are a bunch of psychotic apes living on a dirtball in the ass end of the universe.

We appear to be stuck with odd ritualistic leftovers from the time before we grasped the fact that the moon was a big rock in the sky and we moved on from there.

These religions/cults claim to be moral guides showing people how to be good and to be nice to each other by anyone analysing their texts written by fuck knows who well over a millennia ago.

These "spiritual" texts contain some of the most backward attitudes towards pretty much anyone that isn't a straight male, yet they are not only tolerated, we allow our children to be indoctrinated in them from birth.

Many will quote only the "good" bits to show how their holy book is a good moral guide yet refuse to ever consider deleting the "bad" parts as it would be "blasphemous" to alter the second hand words of their deity which have been passed on to the world through an human intermediary who heard voices in his head, or at least claimed to have.

Now editing out the bizarre, bigoted, crap out may seem like as obvious a solution as taking lead out of paint or asbestos out of buildings before it hurts our children but oh no, too easy and this leads to the hard of thinking being manipulated into commiting atrocities by the "wise" sages and soothsayers who claim to know the true meaning of their deity's jumbled messages.

Just mentioning this would mean certain death in countries ruled by the wonderful guidance of these self serving idiots or in more tolerant and enlightened countries being branded a racist subversive.

So we find ourselves in the odd situation where the masses still appear, by consensus, to need to be told how to be good people in the eyes of their "allocated from birth" deity, yet when they go astray it is not the fault of said religion despite the fact that these poor souls were manipulated into acting in such a manner by deliberatley misinterpreted holy texts or even worse simply reading parts of the texts as they are written.

If you continue to allow your religious texts to contain passages excusing murder, racism, sexism and hatred for those not of your faith then you must ALL start to take responsiblity for allowing this to continue, whether you are a religious leader or the least devout of your faith.

Big kisses, Grumpy x"

Bang on right there Grumpy

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By *atinaBabeCouple
over a year ago

casa caliente

V sad poor lad if I was passing by the incident Deff I would done something I would hurt that 2 f.... Evil bastards I woulnd care I'm not scared of nikfes or guns saw all it in brazil befor x

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