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Equality Act 2010

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Forgive me if this has been done before!

I have an exam next week based around the 2010 Equality Act and it got me thinking about Swingers Clubs (so this post is purely out of curiosity!).

As a private members club there are certain rules it should abide by.

Everyone knows that clubs charge different prices for males and females (technically illegal) but this isn't the only issue.

What about disabled access (what is reasonable adjustment?)

A business can refuse pregnant women access to it's services if deemed unsafe, does this mean clubs can refuse pregnant women entry on the grounds that THEY view it as unsafe?

How about barring single men (but not single women) on certain nights?

The list goes on!

So are clubs breaking the law knowing that nobody will take them to court or are they exempt?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe you're right about the different cost for men and women being illegal. But that only applies to venues to which the public have free access. As most swingers venues charge a membership fee too they are classed as clubs and exempt from the rule as the public doesn't have free access.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They have to abide by the rules like anyone else - and will take into account all the above.

However - there are clauses (some may argue loopholes) to allow them to approach things in a different way to cover all the above cases without breaking the law. Any decent club owner will know their stuff and would be adequately prepared for any challenge - the same as any other business.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Membership fee means they falls outside the Act. However, I think a careful case could be made if the application of the membership fee differs.

As to reasonable access it's always a test. Actively barring disabled people would be discriminatory, unable to change the layout of the premises due to cost would not be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They have to abide by the rules like anyone else - and will take into account all the above.

However - there are clauses (some may argue loopholes) to allow them to approach things in a different way to cover all the above cases without breaking the law. Any decent club owner will know their stuff and would be adequately prepared for any challenge - the same as any other business."
And your right ... Thay look into the laws when putting there money in , The bigger clubs who have been going for years . Its there Business after all .

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 08/05/13 15:15:14]

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I'm not accusing any club owner of breaking the law I'm just curious to what the rules (or loopholes) are as I've spent the entire day reading through it and I'm probably more confused than I was when I started

We use clubs and only go on couples night so I'm not looking to for a change in the way things are done but I do get inquisitive!

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By *radleyandRavenCouple
over a year ago

Herts

Not sure, never looked into it to be honest... As I thought most of them are classed as businesses I thought they were able to follow the same rules as some clubs who for example allow women free entry and charge and limit the men allowed in but I thought that came under the whole "The owner/manager has the right to refuse entry for da da da... reason" ect? Guess it depends what's in the contract. Also, what do gym's use then when they have Ladies' night where men aren't allowed to attend classes or the swimming pool one night of the week? I'm confusing myself here now, lol.

As for swinging clubs/parties, I know the cost for single guys acts as a deterant but they know more single guys are likely to attend, so if you've got an open night, it's more income from the biggest group... as with the different prices at vanilla clubs, I'd have to hunt down the laws regarding that as you've now got me intrigued... x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Am sitting here giggling just imagining the examiner's face when they read your exam paper based on the inequality in the swinging world ...........

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland


"Am sitting here giggling just imagining the examiner's face when they read your exam paper based on the inequality in the swinging world ........... "

Me, too - I have been thinking about this and I can see the point completely but it does make me chuckle to think of the reality of presenting this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Am sitting here giggling just imagining the examiner's face when they read your exam paper based on the inequality in the swinging world ...........

Me, too - I have been thinking about this and I can see the point completely but it does make me chuckle to think of the reality of presenting this"

especially the amount of time that has been spent on it - would be a shame not to use the research

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Not sure, never looked into it to be honest... As I thought most of them are classed as businesses I thought they were able to follow the same rules as some clubs who for example allow women free entry and charge and limit the men allowed in but I thought that came under the whole "The owner/manager has the right to refuse entry for da da da... reason" ect? Guess it depends what's in the contract. Also, what do gym's use then when they have Ladies' night where men aren't allowed to attend classes or the swimming pool one night of the week? I'm confusing myself here now, lol.

As for swinging clubs/parties, I know the cost for single guys acts as a deterant but they know more single guys are likely to attend, so if you've got an open night, it's more income from the biggest group... as with the different prices at vanilla clubs, I'd have to hunt down the laws regarding that as you've now got me intrigued... x"

clubs set up purely for people with a 'protected characteristic' (eg a club for deaf children) don't have to allow anyone in without that characteristic. Same goes for sports clubs and the like with female only swim sessions but swingers clubs aren't covered by this (as far as I can tell!)

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Am sitting here giggling just imagining the examiner's face when they read your exam paper based on the inequality in the swinging world ........... "

Well apparently they do get bored reading the same old same old so we are encouraged to 'think out of the box'

Bet this is not what they were thinking of when that statement was made!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've just nicked this off a previous thread asking a similar question!

(Apologies to Fabio for the theft!!)

the protected status's in the act are....

disability, gender realignment, Pregnancy and Maternity, race, religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.....

doesn't say anything about marital status though..... therefore if you go as a "couple" and consider yourself to be a "couple", then that isn't covered....

so they can charge couples differently then they can singles.......

so from what I read, Technically you can't differently charge single guys and single fems......if the numbers going were the same if the price were the same.. HOWEVER, under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....

so all they would have to do is raise single women prices for a few weeks.... when they get no single women going... drop back down the price!

Couples (MM),Couples (MF) and Couples (FF)

However in Clubs CAN still have different rules attached to the different types (so before two single guys decide to test the "couple" thing.... I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a "stay together play together" clause to make people think twice about it......)

Explains it in simple terms!!

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By *adyH and GrissomCouple
over a year ago

Llantarnum

Our local club has lots of narrow stairs which rules it out for the OH but always think what a way to leap out of the closet " Couple sue local swinging club for lack of disabled access " lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I believe you're right about the different cost for men and women being illegal. But that only applies to venues to which the public have free access. As most swingers venues charge a membership fee too they are classed as clubs and exempt from the rule as the public doesn't have free access."

So what about nights where no membership is charged but entrance fees are and a parity still exists between those fees for a man, a woman and a couple ?

By having non-members nights are clubs running a gauntlet ?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I believe you're right about the different cost for men and women being illegal. But that only applies to venues to which the public have free access. As most swingers venues charge a membership fee too they are classed as clubs and exempt from the rule as the public doesn't have free access.

So what about nights where no membership is charged but entrance fees are and a parity still exists between those fees for a man, a woman and a couple ?

By having non-members nights are clubs running a gauntlet ?"

Potentially unless it's an invited party night.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I believe you're right about the different cost for men and women being illegal. But that only applies to venues to which the public have free access. As most swingers venues charge a membership fee too they are classed as clubs and exempt from the rule as the public doesn't have free access.

So what about nights where no membership is charged but entrance fees are and a parity still exists between those fees for a man, a woman and a couple ?

By having non-members nights are clubs running a gauntlet ?

Potentially unless it's an invited party night."

How does that alter it Lickety ?

and who do the invites need to come from and in what manner ?

I am kinda intrigued by all this

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I've just nicked this off a previous thread asking a similar question!

(Apologies to Fabio for the theft!!)

the protected status's in the act are....

disability, gender realignment, Pregnancy and Maternity, race, religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.....

doesn't say anything about marital status though..... therefore if you go as a "couple" and consider yourself to be a "couple", then that isn't covered....

so they can charge couples differently then they can singles.......

so from what I read, Technically you can't differently charge single guys and single fems......if the numbers going were the same if the price were the same.. HOWEVER, under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....

so all they would have to do is raise single women prices for a few weeks.... when they get no single women going... drop back down the price!

Couples (MM),Couples (MF) and Couples (FF)

However in Clubs CAN still have different rules attached to the different types (so before two single guys decide to test the "couple" thing.... I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a "stay together play together" clause to make people think twice about it......)

Explains it in simple terms!! "

Thank you, that makes it a bit clearer. Now what about couples only nights, single fems are still allowed in but not single men?

(For the record these are my preferred nights so in no way am I trying to upset the applecart!)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I've just nicked this off a previous thread asking a similar question!

(Apologies to Fabio for the theft!!)

the protected status's in the act are....

disability, gender realignment, Pregnancy and Maternity, race, religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.....

doesn't say anything about marital status though..... therefore if you go as a "couple" and consider yourself to be a "couple", then that isn't covered....

so they can charge couples differently then they can singles.......

so from what I read, Technically you can't differently charge single guys and single fems......if the numbers going were the same if the price were the same.. HOWEVER, under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....

so all they would have to do is raise single women prices for a few weeks.... when they get no single women going... drop back down the price!

Couples (MM),Couples (MF) and Couples (FF)

However in Clubs CAN still have different rules attached to the different types (so before two single guys decide to test the "couple" thing.... I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a "stay together play together" clause to make people think twice about it......)

Explains it in simple terms!!

Thank you, that makes it a bit clearer. Now what about couples only nights, single fems are still allowed in but not single men?

(For the record these are my preferred nights so in no way am I trying to upset the applecart!)"

Sexist! Plain and simple!

Shouldn't be allowed!!

I'm not 'dragging up' , donning a wig and tucking it between my legs a la that bloke from silence of the lambs for no-one!

*suppose I could just go on another night!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I believe you're right about the different cost for men and women being illegal. But that only applies to venues to which the public have free access. As most swingers venues charge a membership fee too they are classed as clubs and exempt from the rule as the public doesn't have free access.

So what about nights where no membership is charged but entrance fees are and a parity still exists between those fees for a man, a woman and a couple ?

By having non-members nights are clubs running a gauntlet ?

Potentially unless it's an invited party night.

How does that alter it Lickety ?

and who do the invites need to come from and in what manner ?

I am kinda intrigued by all this "

It becomes a private party, with a contribution made towards the costs (often why the membership is waived). The 'contract' would be between the club and the individual/s holding the party. You don't have to justify who you invite to your party. An open invitation that does not guarantee entry and has stipulations could be argued as being an application but it's unlikely. It still wouldn't be the club in that case but the person holding the party.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I've just nicked this off a previous thread asking a similar question!

(Apologies to Fabio for the theft!!)

the protected status's in the act are....

disability, gender realignment, Pregnancy and Maternity, race, religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.....

doesn't say anything about marital status though..... therefore if you go as a "couple" and consider yourself to be a "couple", then that isn't covered....

so they can charge couples differently then they can singles.......

so from what I read, Technically you can't differently charge single guys and single fems......if the numbers going were the same if the price were the same.. HOWEVER, under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....

so all they would have to do is raise single women prices for a few weeks.... when they get no single women going... drop back down the price!

Couples (MM),Couples (MF) and Couples (FF)

However in Clubs CAN still have different rules attached to the different types (so before two single guys decide to test the "couple" thing.... I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a "stay together play together" clause to make people think twice about it......)

Explains it in simple terms!!

Thank you, that makes it a bit clearer. Now what about couples only nights, single fems are still allowed in but not single men?

(For the record these are my preferred nights so in no way am I trying to upset the applecart!)

Sexist! Plain and simple!

Shouldn't be allowed!!

I'm not 'dragging up' , donning a wig and tucking it between my legs a la that bloke from silence of the lambs for no-one!

*suppose I could just go on another night! "

Spoilsport!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I've just nicked this off a previous thread asking a similar question!

(Apologies to Fabio for the theft!!)

the protected status's in the act are....

disability, gender realignment, Pregnancy and Maternity, race, religion, Sex and Sexual Orientation.....

doesn't say anything about marital status though..... therefore if you go as a "couple" and consider yourself to be a "couple", then that isn't covered....

so they can charge couples differently then they can singles.......

so from what I read, Technically you can't differently charge single guys and single fems......if the numbers going were the same if the price were the same.. HOWEVER, under the act you are Allowed to positively discriminate for groups of people that are "under represented" as long as you can show that such measures are useful for redress the balances....

so all they would have to do is raise single women prices for a few weeks.... when they get no single women going... drop back down the price!

Couples (MM),Couples (MF) and Couples (FF)

However in Clubs CAN still have different rules attached to the different types (so before two single guys decide to test the "couple" thing.... I wouldn't be surprised if they put in a "stay together play together" clause to make people think twice about it......)

Explains it in simple terms!!

Thank you, that makes it a bit clearer. Now what about couples only nights, single fems are still allowed in but not single men?

(For the record these are my preferred nights so in no way am I trying to upset the applecart!)

Sexist! Plain and simple!

Shouldn't be allowed!!

I'm not 'dragging up' , donning a wig and tucking it between my legs a la that bloke from silence of the lambs for no-one!

*suppose I could just go on another night! "

Having particular nights for specific groups can also be used as an argument for meeting the requirements of the Act. You are catering for everyone but not necessarily at the same time. The club is only offering you access to a venue - it is not guaranteeing you association with any particular people or guaranteeing sex. That is not part of the service contract you are entering. The club can't guarantee which members will attend on any particular date but it can make a reasonable case that most clients choose to associate with clients like them when using the club.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does anybody elses head hurt ?

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By *allen MadonnaWoman
over a year ago

In my own little world

Right I'm going to throw in my peneth.

What about transgender. They are covered under the Equality Act.

Discuss!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Does anybody elses head hurt ? "

Mine! I've been reading through this since 9 this morning!

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Right I'm going to throw in my peneth.

What about transgender. They are covered under the Equality Act.

Discuss!"

Yes they are - a fully protected characteristic. How they identify is all that matters.

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"Does anybody elses head hurt ?

Mine! I've been reading through this since 9 this morning!"

I've been working on this stuff for over 20 years - it doesn't get any easier. Treat people with respect, follow the law and use commonsense is what I always come back to.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Right I'm going to throw in my peneth.

What about transgender. They are covered under the Equality Act.

Discuss!"

They are yes, but my head hurts, what specifically were you thinking of?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

OP - what is the question you are answering?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Does anybody elses head hurt ?

Mine! I've been reading through this since 9 this morning!

I've been working on this stuff for over 20 years - it doesn't get any easier. Treat people with respect, follow the law and use commonsense is what I always come back to."

Really? So I should have just PM'd you for some pointers! Now you tell me!

You might want to block me, I also need to answer a question on meritocracy!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"OP - what is the question you are answering?"

It's meant to be an unseen paper but we've been told there is a question about Equality Act 2010 and how it's changed the way Business' operate

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"OP - what is the question you are answering?

It's meant to be an unseen paper but we've been told there is a question about Equality Act 2010 and how it's changed the way Business' operate"

Ok, then that's two things to consider. What business operations have had to change and what it is only reasonable for them to have changed. Have you read the easy guide on equalities dot gov? It's probably the easiest and if you read it alongside the ACAS table it shows the changes and extensions to all the previous acts.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"OP - what is the question you are answering?

It's meant to be an unseen paper but we've been told there is a question about Equality Act 2010 and how it's changed the way Business' operate

Ok, then that's two things to consider. What business operations have had to change and what it is only reasonable for them to have changed. Have you read the easy guide on equalities dot gov? It's probably the easiest and if you read it alongside the ACAS table it shows the changes and extensions to all the previous acts."

Yes, been looking at that today, thank you.

Probably spent way too long on this today but I get an idea in my head and I'm like a dog with a bone until I get an answer!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

why has it been mentioned that a couple need ot be married? or am i reading something wrong?

a couple means 2 people.. why do those 2 people have to be married

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